None-story
Use of equipment restricted while trials are conducted, with usage increased as trials are successful.
F-35 targeting system laser will be 'almost impossible' to use in UK
US restrictions on the F-35 fighter jet's targeting system will make it “almost impossible” for training to be carried out in the UK, the Ministry of Defence fears – but its press office insists the constraints are normal. The F-35's electro-optical targeting system (EOTS) includes a target designator laser and a laser …
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Monday 1st August 2016 14:33 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: None-story
I think you missed the point - the US are apparently restricting its use. Now perhaps I got it wrong, but we're buying these planes, not renting them. So it should be none of the US's damn business how we use them once we've handed over an extortionate amount of cash for aircraft than can barely replicate the VTOL functionality of the 1960s Harrier.
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Monday 1st August 2016 15:07 GMT BillG
Re: None-story
No, you missed the point. These planes are still in trials. If, during testing of the laser tracking system, something goes wrong, it makes debugging a whole lot easier if you know there are no other lasers or other optical devices in the testing area.
Of course later testing will probably flood the area with lasers in an attempt to confuse the laser tracking system.
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Monday 1st August 2016 15:25 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: None-story
"No, you missed the point. These planes are still in trials. If, during testing of the laser tracking system, something goes wrong, it makes debugging a whole lot easier if you know there are no other lasers or other optical devices in the testing area."
We're not buying beta versions! Once they're paid for and flying over here there should be no more testing (other than pilot training) and debugging!
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Monday 1st August 2016 18:28 GMT thames
Re: None-story
@boltar - "We're not buying beta versions! Once they're paid for and flying over here there should be no more testing (other than pilot training) and debugging!"
Beta? They're barely frigging alpha! The Pentagon (under orders from congress) has put a hold on more orders until the software is finished, and as a result LM is whining that they're losing money and can't afford to pay their suppliers. UK orders are also on hold because they're part of the same lots the US has put on hold.
The planes will fly, and the UK can use the ones they've got now for pilot and ground crew training, but the planes are not ready for fighting a war yet. UK plans are to have the planes ready when the first new carrier is ready, with sea trials finished and crew worked up. The latter hasn't happened yet, so it's not a big deal from a UK perspective. The RAF plans on using the F-35B as a Tornado replacement (bomber) which can also operate from carriers, while the Typhoon (Eurofighter) will remain in use for air defence and air superiority with a secondary role in dropping bombs. Similarly, the US will still have the F-22 for air defence and air superiority.
The countries that are feeling the pain on this one are the smaller ones that only have one type of plane and need to replace their entire air force, and whose existing planes are falling to bits from age. Denmark is a good example. They're looking at a gap between their F-16s falling apart from age and their new, not yet delivered, F-35s being ready for full service.
As for the question of the laser targeting system, I don't know the details but I suspect it may be a safety issue until the targeting system has received full approval for service. At the moment they can't guaranty that it won't get confused when it sees someone else's laser and drop bombs on the wrong target, and that it won't point the laser in random directions and damage someone's eyesight. The Americans have big spaces to let things go wrong in, and article mentions that the UK has a few similar ones as well.
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Monday 1st August 2016 20:19 GMT Chris G
Re: None-story
The F-35 saga to me has all the hallmarks of a new Windows OS, the main difference between win10 and this thing is that MS has hardly been able to give away 10 whereas everyone is paying through the nose for the F-35. In both cases there are funtionality and user problems, plus it seems that users will never fully own either to do with them as they like.
F-35 = Warplanes as a service?
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Tuesday 2nd August 2016 08:43 GMT Sirius Lee
MS has hardly been able to give away 10
What planet are you on? Is it really necessary to broadcast your bias in comment thread about the F-35? In a year there have been over 300 million installs which an article in El Reg today states is over 21% of the install base. Is that failure? The upgrade offer was not extended to Windows 7 users so I continue to use Windows 7 along with 68% of the rest of the install base. If I'd been offered the free route I would have taken it because Windows 10 is working just fine on 3 other laptops in the house but I take the view that if its not broke I'm not going to pay to fix it.
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Tuesday 2nd August 2016 13:30 GMT Kiwi
Re: MS has hardly been able to give away 10
...The upgrade offer was not extended to Windows 7 users...
So... All those complaints from Win 7 users (including, IIRC, the lady who sued MS for $10G over lost business) about the attempts to force 10 on them was a figment of someone's imagination1? All those machines I helped fight to keep X from installing on despite the users constantly saying "no" were not real?
1 Can't possibly be my imagination; I'm not up to imagining numbers that large!
What planet are you on?
Ahem...
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Tuesday 2nd August 2016 23:23 GMT Peter Bennett
Re: MS has hardly been able to give away 10
I stopped using Windows in favour of Ubuntu for couple of years, but bought a $100 (sic) Win10 tablet w keyb recently and it is great. Fair to say, maybe, they had to bring the price down, but there is nothing on the market that gets close to Win10 for general computing at that price.
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Monday 1st August 2016 17:06 GMT JLV
Re: None-story
@Boltar
“in the US under very tight controls”
Now, I rarely hesitate to cast the first stone at the flying pig. But what it reads like is that the Americans do not trust that laser near potentially affected systems, on their territory. On a related subject, there's an ongoing tug of war in the US between the Navy and another agency (EPA?) about the impact of sonars on whales and corresponding restrictions. Hardly means that sonar is useless on an attack sub. Nor that the UK is obligated to follow the US lead wrt to the laser.
Do agree that having severe restrictions on laser training use might impact operational readiness. But that hardly seems like a big deal compared with all the rest. Not least the steadily dropping volume of F35s to be deployed - which will make it pretty useless in any serious operations against any big player. Read up on Tiger IIs if you want to catch my drift.
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Monday 1st August 2016 17:55 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: None-story
I think a big reason for the restrictions might be the terrible publicity would result if there was an accident (whether in the US or another country does not really matter in this case) that blinded someone. There would be a lot of outrage, talk about how we'll end up blinding kids by mistake who are lucky enough not be blown up by mistake, and there would be pressure to remove the system or restrict its use in war (which is when the military would not want any restrictions at all, too bad for the people on the ground who look up)
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Tuesday 2nd August 2016 21:29 GMT Vic
Re: None-story
Do agree that having severe restrictions on laser training use might impact operational readiness. But that hardly seems like a big deal compared with all the rest.
It is very easy to be blinded to the essential uselessness of [their products] by the sense of achievement you get from getting them to work at all. In other words—and this is the rock solid principle on which the whole of the Corporation's Galaxy-wide success is founded—their fundamental design flaws are completely hidden by their superficial design flaws
Vic.
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Wednesday 3rd August 2016 08:33 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: @boltar ... None-story
The significant fact is that the F-35 costs too much. Far too much. Far, far too much even if it worked. Which it apparently doesn't.
What the UK needs is some good, inexpensive, functional workhorse aircraft. Until a better source is found, why not buy some Sukhois and MiGs?
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Monday 8th August 2016 07:56 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Tchou Re: None-story
"....mirage-2000-9....." Puh-lease, the Mirage 2000-9 is (a) a bargain-bin upgrade to an ancient design with (b) an old radar design (based on the '60s Cyrano) and (c) completely outclassed by the Typhoon, either in air combat or ground attack. There's a good argument that the Tornado is a better interceptor and ground attack platform than the Mirage! The Mirage 2000-9 also has zero stealth capability and no IR detection, making it vulnerable to being detected at very long range whilst blind to the F-35's radar stealth. Even with MICA AAMs it is doubtful a Mirage 2000-9 could defeat even the F-35B.
".....yeah it cannot hover....." The UK happens to need that hover capability, mainly for the RN, but also because it allows the RAF to deploy aircraft in emergencies to something other than the limited number of hard runways.
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Monday 1st August 2016 18:42 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Ditch the American Crap Planes...
Forget the harrier. We could have bought a job lot of F/A-18 Super Hornets for long-range strike capability and spent the rest on something that can loiter over a combat zone for extended periods, and still have a huge pile of money left over. We've got plenty of home-grown aircraft design skill in that area even if we're a bit crap at the high-speed jets these days.
Too late now.
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Thursday 4th August 2016 07:33 GMT h4rm0ny
Re: Lewis Page
Less left for greener pastures and more given his marching orders. He's legally forbidden from telling anyone why he left (not sure how they managed to swing that) so we don't know the specifics but a fair guess would be that either (a) his not towing the line on climate change offended the powers that be, (b) new ownership / directors wanted to put their own person in the top-slot or (c) major disagreement on direction with the owners. Whatever the reason, it was less pasture and more stun-gun to the head from what I gather.
Shame. His long tenure at El Reg were a good period for the site and we lost their best writer on all things military and one of the few remaining editors that would run a piece that contested parts of AGW. I've noticed a subtle shift in tone since he left. You get a few more Kieran-style click-baity polemnics for example.
Beer icon for Lewis wherever he is now.
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Thursday 4th August 2016 23:06 GMT Hardrada
Re: Lewis Page
"...one of the few remaining editors that would run a piece that contested parts of AGW"
One of the best things about his LTA coverage was that he was skeptical about a technology that clearly excited him (in contrast to most green-tech coverage). He dug into details like buoyancy control, the size of the potential freight market, and the exact contribution to the greenhouse effect, making for an interesting and professionally useful read.
It also makes it ironic that he took so much flak over AGW, since he was one of the few (only?) commentators to suggest any credible way to reduce the fuel consumed by air travel.
Even scaling up 1930s LTA designs to the largest size that would fit in the three remaining US airship hangars (14.7 million cu. ft.) yields favorable fuel efficiency numbers: gross buoyancy of ~950,000 lbs., structural dead-weight of perhaps 300,000, fuel consumption of around 20,000 lbs. per thousand miles, and a top speed of ~100 mph.
I've taken the Amtrak from Seattle to Minneapolis, and the generous luggage allowance and freedom from TSA nude-o-scopes was very nice. Doing it in half the time, without track noise, at an altitude that gives you a more interesting view than either a train or a jetliner, and on 2.5 gal. of fuel per passenger would be relatively painless as climate change mitigation proposals go, especially with lie-flat seats.
The only alternatives that I've seen have involved high speed rail, and the bills of material for the two systems aren't close.
I've often heard greens say that 'the deniers never offer solutions.' Bull. Not only was Lewis more serious than most of them, but nuclear power has been reducing atmospheric CO2 for half a century, much longer than solar of wind have been viable. If you accept the positive feedback loop in their models, then the associated CO2 reductions have a bigger impact per ton than their own tardy solutions.
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Tuesday 2nd August 2016 19:40 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: @AC Ditch the American Crap Planes...
They were designed to be converted to run electric catapults - which have had teething problems but are already being incorporated into the newest US carrier. Unfortunately the usual graft and corruption inherent in defence created a budget overrun of a few extra billion, so we're lumbered with the F35B.
The thing is a huge white elephant. We only bought it because, well, I'm not entirely sure, except possibly something to do with wanting fancy hovering jets again. They're no Harrier though. If we'd gone with conventional jets the carriers would have had much more flexibility and we could have afforded a full complement for both carriers, instead of essentially mothballing one of them the moment it's christened.
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Monday 1st August 2016 19:00 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: NoneSuch. Re: Ditch the American Crap Planes...
"....the latest BRAND NEW Harrier model...." There is no new development of the Harrier line. What you could have said is that we should just continue developing multi-role Typhoons, plus buy more of the UK Army's preferred ground-attack platform, the Apache.
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Tuesday 2nd August 2016 06:29 GMT Tchou
Re: Ditch the American Crap Planes...
Part of the problem is making it fly combat mission, the other significant problem is the unique maintenance software that is a complete pile of failed crap.
You Brits would be better off buying Dassault Rafale or even Mirage 2000-5 (modernized).
Actually battle proven.
Or the brand new Sukhoi 35, which is far from the US over-engineered, Java ridden, sad joke.
To quote a US General : "This fighter can barely turn anyway. It can only deliver payload in clear skies."
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Wednesday 3rd August 2016 08:36 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Ditch the American Crap Planes...
So basically the F-35 is a multi-role fighter that turns out to be capable of nothing but ground-attack. For which the A-10 is far superior. And if you want proper bombing, the B-52 still does a good job.
The most hilarious part of the whole sorry mess is that so much effort has gone into making the F-35 "stealthy". Everything has been sacrificed to that. Pity about the gigantic flame-belching engine, which the simplest infra-red detector can see coming hundreds of miles away. And the simplest infra-red homing missile will have for lunch.
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Monday 8th August 2016 07:53 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Archtech Re: Ditch the American Crap Planes...
"So basically the F-35 is a multi-role fighter that turns out to be capable of nothing but ground-attack. For which the A-10 is far superior....." Well, yes and no. The Warthog, whilst truly excellent for close air support, isn't very good at interdiction or strategic strikes. You also have the inter-services rivalry problem that the soldiers like controlling the close air support, which is why the US and the UK bought Apache helicopters and gave them to the soldiers and not the flyboys. One trick the F-35B can do that the A-10 can't is act as a supersonic interceptor. For a lot of the air defence tasks in Europe and the US, the threat is still Russian bombers, and the F-35B has the range and carries all the right AAM in numbers to allow it to be a useful secondary interceptor, especially given the way it can integrate datastreams with other aircraft and air defence systems. An F-35B could do a reasonable job standing in for an RAF Typhoon intercepting Russian bombers probing the UK defences, but an A-10 couldn't. Then, consider that a cheaper Predator drone can do a lot of what a Warthog can do (minus the big cannon) without putting a pilot in harms way, and you can then see why the A-10 is going the way of the dodo.
"....And if you want proper bombing, the B-52 does a good job...." Certainly, but it needs a massive amount of support to do so. Ignoring the fact the existing B-52 fleet is very old, your B-52 can't wander alone into contested airspace at low level, it needs to go in high, with lots of fighter cover and EW support. The reason the UK, like the other European nations, doesn't have a big bomber fleet is we can't afford one, and we definitely can't afford the additional large number of support aircraft a fleet of B-52s would need to be successful. So we need aircraft that can sneak in at lower levels, such as Tornado, drop a few bombs on those strategic targets, and scarper. According to the marketing, even the F-35B should be able to do that much better than the B-52, using stealth and small size to avoid detection.
".....Pity about the gigantic flame-belching engine, which the simplest infra-red detector can see coming hundreds of miles away....." Er, no. Firstly, head-on the biggest amount of IR comes from air friction, which is actually much greater on an aircraft going supersonic. Secondly, you need line-of-sight to detect IR, so a subsonic jet following a nap-of-the-Earth approach (which is what bomb-laden RAF F-35Bs are likely to be doing) will not be easy to spot with IR detectors. Add in stand-off missiles and an RAF F-35B has a good chance of successfully hitting a target before it is detected.
One of the indicators that the F-35 won't be completely useless is that Israel has recently added a second order for them, though the Israeli plans for their use is thought to be more for stealthy interdiction and strategic strikes rather than air defence.
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Monday 8th August 2016 07:57 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Tchou Re: Ditch the American Crap Planes...
"....Dassault....." The Typhoon already does far more far better than any of the Dassault products, and it also battle proven. It also doesn't come with the massive issue of being tied to the whims of the French unions. And none of the Dassault jets can hover, which is kinda key to the RN requirement - duh!
"....Sukhoi 35....." "New"???? It's a hideously old design, completely outclassed in air-to-air combat by Typhoon and likely to be by the F-35 seeing as the CIA stole the plans for the Russian radar systems years ago. It also has no stealth capability, no VTOL, is unreliable, has zero stealth and doesn't work with the NATO missiles it would need to carry. Seriously, read some background material before posting such tosh.
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Monday 1st August 2016 13:24 GMT Toltec
Re: Does this mean they have to shout "Behind you!"
What about persons with hearing loss or wearing iPods, plus there is the number of languages that the announcement would need to be made in.
Clearly they will need to issue laser safety glasses to anyone within range, these should be to prescription if required and full training in their use given. Deployment of the aircraft will require a 60 day notice with letters sent to all households as well as adverts on TV and in the press. A team of carers should conduct house to military target calls to ensure everyone has their safety glasses and knows how to deploy them. Special cot or pushchair screens may need to be provided and notices at travel terminals and road connections should be erected for the safety of any visitors to the area.
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Monday 1st August 2016 13:44 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Does this mean they have to shout "Behind you!"
Clearly they will need to issue laser safety glasses to anyone within range, these should be to prescription if required and full training in their use given.
With lasers, a basic mirror (or mirrored lenses) might be enough. Does that mean the US is now going to add mirrors to the list of stuff that is export restricted?
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Monday 1st August 2016 13:22 GMT JeffyPoooh
Wait until you see the next generation fighter...
It will cost $240 Trillion each, and thus there will only be one.
It'll be capable of shooting down up to 255 enemy aircraft at once. Which will lead directly to the following exchange...
"Incoming enemy aircraft! Scramble the F-240T !!!"
"How many enemy aircraft are inbound ?"
"Two Hundred and Fifty... ..Six."
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Monday 1st August 2016 23:42 GMT veti
Re: Wait until you see the next generation fighter...
You're missing the point. If you make it "cheaper", then you get less money. By definition.
Whose interest is that in? Certainly not yours. Nor yet the armed services procurement people, because their boilerplate funding proposal says "Whatever It Takes" - and the more they spend, the more important they are. Only the poor old taxpayer would gain, and they are so distracted by every other issue you can imagine that the chances of their vote being swayed by this issue are infinitesimal.
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Tuesday 2nd August 2016 13:28 GMT h4rm0ny
Re: Wait until you see the next generation fighter...
>>"The next gen fighter jet wont have a meat sack inside, so it will be significantly cheaper, faster, and better."
I agree it's now time to replace pilots in military aircraft, but I don't think it will be cheaper. I mean pilots are certainly expensive but as a part of the TCO (R&D, manufacture, maintenance, profit margin), they're a small part. Where automation will make a difference is the willingness of our politicians to engage in war against non-equal parties given the reduced political fallout from lesser risk of bodybags returning home to be photographed by the media. But reduced cost...? Not unless a war with an equivalent power forces the government to lower profits for the manufacturing companies.
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Tuesday 2nd August 2016 14:00 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Wait until you see the next generation fighter...
Where automation will make a difference is the willingness of our politicians to engage in war against non-equal parties given the reduced political fallout from lesser risk of bodybags returning home to be photographed by the media
.. as already demonstrated by the daily US drone sorties. Personally I think countries doing this should at least have the decency to formally bury those they kill, and provide open records on why they thought the target was worth killing, and how
much collateral damage there wasmany innocents were killed in the process (let's avoid political weasel words).
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Monday 1st August 2016 13:51 GMT Anonymous Coward
Of course, the F-35Bs delivered so far have been for the RAF, not the Navy
So are not yet cleared for seaboard operations. And then there's the way the US defines 'seaboard' as within 200 miles of the sea. And then there's the fact that it's impossible to get 200 miles from the sea in the UK. Don't worry, I'm sure someone's planned it all out. The Merlin worked out perfectly, after all...
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Monday 1st August 2016 13:53 GMT Tony S
You couldn't make it up
There was a really great film made some years ago, with Cary Elwes and Kelsey Grammer. The Pentagon Wars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDYpRhoZqBY - if you've not seen it, take the time to watch. But get ready for the WTF moments. (The way KG tries to hide how much money they've spent and how long they took, without a single functioning device.)
Based on real events, it shows just how crazy the whole procurement system has become. What's quite sad is that all of the officers involved were promoted, apart from the one who blew the whistle; and he was dismissed the service.
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Tuesday 2nd August 2016 03:05 GMT CanadianMacFan
Re: You couldn't make it up
If you want a crazy procurement system then take a look at Canada. Billions of dollars and a few years in and we have yet to start to cut steel on our new ships. We've badly needed to replace our fighter jets for a long time and we just put our 2nd or 3rd RFP for replacements. Etc, etc, etc.
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Monday 1st August 2016 13:59 GMT Tikimon
The world's first IOT aircraft? Predictable results?
Am I the first to notice this debacle of an airplane is an Internet Of (broken) Things device? Think about it... it gets updates from the Mothership, shares all the data it collects with same, automatically orders supplies, has gaping security holes, and doesn't perform its intended functions well. Sounds like classic IOT to me. Therefore, it's behaving exactly as I would expect.
I'll be off now to reminisce about the days when my fair country made amazing and capable warplanes. Guess we had our run...
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Monday 1st August 2016 23:40 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: The world's first IOT aircraft? Predictable results?
...and controlled by a central, remote, server.
Lives may be at steak if the server goes down
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Monday 1st August 2016 14:21 GMT Anonymous Coward
Tornado radar ...
Why have I just remembered being told that the "ground hugging radar" fitted to Tornadoes in the 80s/90s (and one of the reasons the US was so keen to have the UK on board for Gulf War I, as they didn't have that capability) was actually a lump of concrete, and any "gee-whizz" low flying was actually down to the pilot ?
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Monday 1st August 2016 14:36 GMT SkippyBing
Re: Tornado radar ...
Because someone was obviously confusing the two different types of Tornado. The air defence variant was initially delivered with concrete ballast rather than radars, the interdiction/strike version had a fully working terrain following radar, it's just the pilots could manually fly lower than the radar. Assuming they could see out the window.
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Monday 1st August 2016 14:54 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Tornado radar ...
According to Rumour, the USAF Pilots would not fly a zero altitude. The old 'war games' between the US and the UK were canned when the US called foul at the RAF flying so close to the ground in thei Buccaneers that they left a sandstorm behind them which clogged up vital bits of kit on the yank planes. One RN pilot I ran into during Sea Harrier trials said that he'd flown through the top of a wave more than once in a Buccaneer.
That was the whole idea. Fly in low under the Radar, drop your load and hightail it out again.
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Tuesday 2nd August 2016 06:57 GMT MrT
Red Flag...
... Nellis AFB commander reportedly had a photo of a large curved trench in the desert floor, taken after one of the contests in which the RAF took part. When asked, he said it was left by the wingtip of a Vulcan as it manoeuvred at extreme low level. Another Vulcan landed with cable fouling the tail, snagged as the plane flew under power or telegraph lines - at the time it the snagging, the plane was going up. A further example of the RAF pilots' flying skills was when one Vulcan flew in as a cover for two Buccaneers (Operation Skyshield IIRC, simulated attacks against the US eastern seaboard) - one radar blip became three as the two smaller planes broke cover from under the Vulcan's shadow. The way the RAF flew their 4-engined plane when it first attended the contest was such that one US pilot commented that he liked the new fighter jet, but he thought it a bit big, not realising that it could haul 21,000 lbs of bombs.
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Monday 1st August 2016 14:53 GMT Rich 11
Leonardo - not incomprehensible, but an inspiration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architonnerre
Hopefully, though, the Italian boffins are thinking up something a bit more 21st century, though still ground-breaking.
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Monday 1st August 2016 14:47 GMT Anonymous Coward
Read between the lines
Basically the Yanks don't want anyone "snooping" the laser targeting system to figure out how it can be defeated. Given the American history of blue on blue accidents there's a good chance that they have figured out how to communicate from the "target" to the aircraft with the new system to stop the flyboys killing our forces in the future.
F35 laser paints the target, target says "Friend" - laser moves on to next target.
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Monday 1st August 2016 16:47 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Read between the lines
there's a good chance that they have figured out how to communicate from the "target" to the aircraft with the new system to stop the flyboys killing our forces in the future.
F35 laser paints the target, target says "Friend" - laser moves on to next target.
That's assuming the system prevents the idiot americans from actually firing anyway.
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Monday 1st August 2016 17:53 GMT PNGuinn
Re: Read between the lines
"F35 laser paints the target, target says "Friend" - Computer says KILL."
Or in the case of the Internet of Warfare Things - someone else's computer says "KILL"
It's all to do with security see - we can't have the enemy shooting up our /sorry, your /forces.
We MUST shoot first.
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Monday 1st August 2016 20:58 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Read between the lines
"Basically the Yanks don't want anyone "snooping" the laser targeting system to figure out how it can be defeated. "
And given how the UK is riddled with foreign agents, you'd want to be doing tests in secure areas. The secure areas will probably still be compromised with foreign agents and monitoring equipment, but it is at little easier for the cops to prove it. They are the same cops that let a Russian asylum seeker get assassinated in 2006, so the US and most of NATO doesn't expect too much from UK security forces. I'm surprised the US even installed EOTS on the UK F35s, as there is no way the UK could protect the technology.
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Monday 1st August 2016 21:41 GMT x 7
Re: Read between the lines
"F35 laser paints the target, target says "Friend" - laser moves on to next target."
Yanks have had that technology for over 20 years, though I don't know if it was ever out into use, For obvious reasons I'm not saying how, though I expect the technology has moved on since I was made aware in the 1990's
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Monday 1st August 2016 14:56 GMT Spudley
<quote>According to the Defence Ranges Safety Committee, the F-35 has only been cleared to use the designator laser “in the US under very tight controls”.</quote>
Blue Leader: Bogie has flown out of our airspace. Should I pursue?
Base: Uh, negative Blue Leader, you'll have to let him go; you'd get sued for export violations if you cross the border.
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Monday 1st August 2016 16:10 GMT JaitcH
F35? Oh, the Dud from Lockheed Martin Aeronautics: over budget, late delivery, under performing
This is most likely a Pentagon ploy to keep politicians critical of the whole scheme from getting to know the truth.
This aircraft barely meets specifications ... so they re-write the specifications!
Did they fix the pilots flying suit problems yet? Or the helmet? (F-35 helmet costs ISD$400,000 - 4 times that of predecessor) How about pilots under 136 pounds aren't allowed to fly any F-35 variant because they may die?
Another 'design by committee' that fails.
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Monday 8th August 2016 09:11 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: JaitcH Re: F35? Oh, the Dud from Lockheed Martin.....
"....Another 'design by committee' that fails." LOL, you know it's bad when JaitcH can hyperventilate through the standard anti-Yank boilerplate! Firstly, the F-35 hasn't "failed", though it is taking a a lot longer to develop than expected. On the other hand, the majority of combat jets come in over-budget and after delays, and the F-35 has the added complexity of actually being three requirements in one project.
If we compare it to the aircraft it's replacing most, the F-16, then it's hardly surprising there have been delays. The original F-16 was supposed to be a cheap dogfighter backup to the F-15 interceptor, but over four decades and a lot of money spent it has evolved into an expensive and multi-role aircraft. The F-35 is effectively doing the same journey in a lot less time, plus bolting in a lot of new technology and environments (stealth, naval catapult launch and retrieval, VTOL, helmet-mounted displays) that the F-16 designers never had to worry about. You could argue that it was silly of the designers to try the F-35 project as one big project, but to declare it a failure outright is very premature.
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Monday 1st August 2016 21:09 GMT laurence brothers
Geez, if that was the only problem it would be in fine shape for a project that's 10 times as expensive as it should be.
But 2 out of 3 planes are sidelined at any moment, and at present they are forbidden from flying in the rain.... So I'm afraid a 24-plane F-35 order won't even fill out a single operational squadron, and you'd better hope the enemy agrees to fight only on sunny days.
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Monday 1st August 2016 21:57 GMT Magani
There's a simpler explanation.
"These include a ban on any optic devices being within 33km of the aircraft when the designator is switched on, and no observers being allowed within 9km of an F-35 operating its designator laser."
They don't want anyone watching while they're hunting Pokemons with the HUD.
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Tuesday 2nd August 2016 05:29 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: There's a marketing explanation.
"The F-35 offers an unprecedented and revolutionary level of stealth characteristics to vastly redue it's probability of detection, with state of the art measures to reduce optical detection from a ground breaking 33km, and can remain undetectable by observers at ranges of up to 9km in attack mode."
It's just another way of ensuring that all targets can be prosecuted, especially if they take pictures of an F-35 in action. Given that's likely to be quite an exclusive snap for a number of years, the US is simply protecting it's image rights.
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Tuesday 2nd August 2016 03:36 GMT -tim
Is using the laser against the law?
21 CFR 1040 is the chunk of legislation that covers laser use in the USA and it applies to the Department of Defense. Somehow I don't think they are using weak class IIIa laser for their targeting system. Optical devices might be bureaucratic speak for telescopes or binoculars.
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Tuesday 2nd August 2016 11:31 GMT amanfromMars 1
When the Military Option is a Too Big to Sell and Failed Boondoggle ...... ‽ .
And whenever the objective to target is an invisible and intangible moving subject with enlightened threads of intelligence evidence to follow/exploit/clone? ........ What is wrong with y'all? Open up your hearts and minds to what is defeating you every time you fail to think originally.
amanfromMars replying to Archibald Buttle Aug 2, 2016 5:42 AM and commenting on http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-01/chinese-success-curbing-capital-outflows-spells-disaster-high-end-new-york-san-fran-
Hi, Archibald Buttle and Cognitive Dissonance,
Here is some NEUKlearer HyperRadioProActive IT which charts an alternate course with surreal means and means of action.....
Methinks the real virtual reality is the competition between accelerating despotism and struggling markets and that, Daily Bell Ringers, is a Great CyberWar WareFare Game which does not suffer nor offer the Input to Output of Fools Engaged in a World Series of Follies.
And how can/will MainStreamMedia ignore it, if it is to remain a credible force of vital information with future intelligence leading in an agreed arranged direction? To spin false yarns and seed crooked trails renders one as the deceitful enemy to be thoroughly crushed and perfectly destroyed.
The whole truth in any and all of its forms, both within and outside of IT and AI, is a Divine Master and Heavenly Mistress. ..... http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/goldman-analysis-neglects-world-destroying-crash/#comment-2816454124
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Wednesday 3rd August 2016 02:43 GMT Hardrada
Is it clear that this is a safety issue vs. a security/secrecy one? Maybe they've done something 'special' to evade jamming and they don't want to make it easy to reverse engineer...
The US has a long history of restricting new planes - letting the F-117 out at night only, allowing front photographs of the B-2 but no derrière shots, maintaining a no-man's-land around air bases used for black projects, etc..
That's what I would have assumed from the details if not for the rest of the article.
Biting the hand that feeds IT
