back to article Windows 10 Pro Anniversary Update tweaked to stop you disabling app promos

Group Policy changes in Windows 10 Anniversary Update, set for release shortly, mean that users of the Pro edition can no longer disable some of the more intrusive aspects of the operating system. Group Policy is a mechanism by which system administrators can configure Windows settings centrally, for PCs joined to a Windows …

  1. wolfetone

    What are Microsoft smoking? I want to know what to avoid to prevent me making silly decisions like this.

    1. agatum
      Mushroom

      What are Microsoft smoking?

      Seems to me they are burning bridges. Maybe that's the smoke you detect.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        It's this kind of intrusive bullshit that turned me from a fairly happy majority Windows 7/occasional Linux user to the reverse of that, to the point where Windows 10 is kept on hand for emergency use only. What on Earth are they thinking of???

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          I'm quite sure someone in Cupertino is looking with delight at how MS is firing into its own feet.

          If I were someone like Dell, I would call Nadella and tell him to stop this idiocy because it's going to impact sales, otherwise I would start to offer systems with "another" OS installed.

          1. boltar Silver badge

            "I'm quite sure someone in Cupertino is looking with delight at how MS is firing into its own feet."

            I doubt they'd notice over at Apple right now, they're too busy firing into theirs.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              @boltar - Apple is firing into their feet?

              How so? Sure, sales of the iPhone are down from its lofty peak, but two quarters of lower YoY sales hardly means Apple is in terminal decline. The whole mobile market is saturated now, and no phone has new features compelling enough to make people upgrade. They could match the total feature set of the Android market, and it wouldn't affect their sales, unless you think people will actually switch to Android in large numbers to get something like wireless charging.

              There were in fact obvious reasons (pent up demand for a larger iPhone and for China Mobile as a carrier) for the sales peak they experienced with the iPhone 6, so it is not surprising when those pent up demands have been satisfied that they are experiencing lower sales this time around. So unless you consider "fulfilling demand in all potential markets leaving no more big untapped sources of growth" to be shooting yourself in the foot...

              I doubt Apple pays much attention to Microsoft anymore anyway, they have never been relevant in the mobile market so I doubt anyone at Apple takes any 'delight' in it. Well, maybe a few old timers who have been there since the 90s when Microsoft was unstoppable still like seeing them brought down a peg, but they've been screwing up in so many ways for so many years you'd hope they'd be tired of it by now.

          2. russsh

            Re: Dell?

            The same Dell that has been installing buckets of crapware on its consumer PCs for decades?

            1. Ilsa Loving

              Re: Dell?

              There's a difference though. They make money from those crapware installs. Unless Microsoft is paying them to support whatever shovelware Microsoft decides to install on people's machines, Dell has no reason to be happy about the situation.

          3. bombastic bob Silver badge
            FAIL

            double-double down on STUPID

            "If I were someone like Dell, I would call Nadella and tell him to stop this idiocy because it's going to impact sales"

            Whoops. too late. [negative sales impact since Win "Ape" actually]

            Micro-shaft doing THIS reminds me of a Futurama episode where everybody became stupid because of giant space brains. On the news, the reporter talked about a huge train wreck, but then she mentioned that "the governor lady" was going to fix everything by "sending MORE TRAINS".

            So in Micro-Shaft's case, they'll just DOUBLE-DOUBLE DOWN on STUPID, hoping it will WORK this time.

            The 3 stooges, Ballmer, Turner, Sinofsky: turning a profitable technology leader into a laughing stock, since 2005. (now all 3 have been 'canned' and the direction is STILL not changing, it's just getting WORSE)

          4. Sebastian A

            Didn't Microsoft get raked over the coals a decade ago for their licensing agreements with major OEMs? The type that went "You will ship Windows on *all* the PCs you sell, or you won't get to ship it with any."

            1. Updraft102 Silver badge

              Not to mention telling the OEMs that they must put the IE icon prominently on the desktop, and that no other browser may be preinstalled.

              If they were raked over the coals, someone forgot to light the coals first. They should have broken up MS when they had the chance. Now they're being strangely silent...

        2. ma1010 Silver badge
          Linux

          You should go right ahead and upgrade

          To Linux. After being a Windows user and supporter since the 80's, I did, and I'm very glad I did. Yes, there are things to learn, and there may be a few "windows only" apps one needs, but for those you can use Windows 7 in Virtualbox, WINE, or dual boot with Internet access disabled. One way or another, you can escape what is increasingly becoming the Dark Side.

          As far as I can tell, Windows is trying to commit suicide. Are most people really lame enough to use an operating system that installs programs you don't want without even asking you? It seems to me that Satya clearly believes "All your PC are belong to us." I, for one, disagree.

          1. nematoad Silver badge
            Windows

            Re: You should go right ahead and upgrade

            "Are most people really lame enough to use an operating system that installs programs you don't want without even asking you?"

            Yes.

            1. fung0

              Re: You should go right ahead and upgrade

              "Are most people really lame enough to use an operating system that installs programs you don't want without even asking you?"

              So far, all we know is that some are. The jury is out on most.

              However, omens such as the miserable failure of Windows Phone, the mediocre response to the Windows 10 giveaway, the languishing sales of the Xbox One, the near-total nonexistence of DirectX 12 games, the crickets chirping in the Windows Store - all tend to suggest that Microsoft's Master plan is a very long way from being a rousing success.

              1. asdf

                Re: You should go right ahead and upgrade

                >"Are most people really lame enough to use an operating system that installs programs you don't want without even asking you?

                Only if I am paid too (and they buy the machine) and even then its getting Cygwin and Solaris in a VM for getting day to day stuff done.

              2. Kiwi Silver badge
                Linux

                Re: You should go right ahead and upgrade @fung0

                ...all tend to suggest that Microsoft's Master plan is a very long way from being a rousing success.

                You forgot the increasing silence from the usual crown of MS shiils (esp certain ACs) here to "correct" people making comments such as yourself.

                Looks like even they have decided to stay away from MS products! (some of 'em anyway)

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Black Helicopters

            Re: You should go right ahead and upgrade

            It seems to me that Satya clearly believes "All your PC are belong to us." I, for one, disagree.

            I think there's an alterior motive to forcing the updates.

          3. Updraft102 Silver badge

            Re: You should go right ahead and upgrade

            It's time. MS has been abusive from the start, but until now, they've mostly been abusive to their competitors. Now they've started abusing their own users.

            You know, when this GWX nonsense first started to really flare up, back when I had just tried Win 10 and decided I didn't like it, I decided to keep Windows 7 and wait and see if 10 would get any better. Four years is a long time, and surely by then MS would have gotten the picture from feedback from its users, right?

            I had 10 installed on a test PC so I could monitor its progress. I also put Linux on that test PC as a dual boot, just to see how it had grown since I last used it (in the form of Ubuntu Feisty Fawn).

            As the year-long free upgrade progressed, I became far less optimistic about the odds of Win 10 evolving into something I would want to use. Despite user feedback, MS seemed determined to charge ahead in the wrong direction. I decided, eventually, to step up the "getting to know Linux" thing; with Linux only on my test PC, I wasn't using it enough to really get to know it, and I wasn't working on migrating at all. My main PC then became a Win7/ Mint dual boot machine.

            In time, I wiped the 10 install on my test PC. I'd given up on it; no need to keep testing. When the story is over, close the book (I think I saw that in one of the original '70s Herbie movies). My main PC then became a Mint/ Win 7 machine; I use Linux wherever possible, and I am preparing for the day when I can dismiss Windows permanently. I'm not one of those Linux die-hards who hates anything Microsoft (or that isn't FOSS)... I really like 7, and I liked XP a great deal as well. There's just no future in them; XP has already been abandoned, and 7 will be too in time.

            If you can handle Linux and its relative lack of graphical UI for administrative tasks (for day to day use, there's no need to go outside of the desktop environment) and incompatibility with some Windows programs that don't have Linux equivalents, there's never been a better time than now. Microsoft has shown us clearly that nothing less than complete control over our PCs is their goal. It's not getting better-- it's getting worse. First we hear that Cortana can no longer be set to use search engines other than Bing. Then we hear that the Windows Store can no longer be disabled via group policy except in the educational and enterprise versions of 10. Then we hear that Cortana can no longer be disabled. Now we hear that the ads for apps can't be disabled.

            That last one probably wasn't meant to be discovered until after the free upgrade period, which ended yesterday, but the rest of them happened even while MS was still trying to get people (home users) to accept Windows 10 for free. Now that all of the home users that wanted 10 have it, and most of the future growth of 10 will be in the enterprise sector, we can expect the drip, drip, drip of news about which options MS has taken out of the non-enterprise versions to turn into something a lot bigger.

            We're in for some interesting times. I fear that people who have migrated to 10 are in for some rough seas, and we can't be sure MS won't put some extra "goodies" into the 7 and 8 security updates that gradually result in them slowing down in an attempt force people into 10 quicker. With closed-source software, there has to be a degree of trust in its publisher, and it is clear that MS cannot and should not be trusted.

            1. Richard Plinston

              Re: You should go right ahead and upgrade

              > Linux and its relative lack of graphical UI for administrative tasks

              Just get WebMin.

        3. Antron Argaiv Silver badge

          I've always seen an OS as a tool. Allows me to use the hardware, but is strictly functional -- and doesn't get in the way.

          Now, Microsoft is trying to turn Windows into a marketing platform. That's fine, but they should at least be up front about it.

          Look, you pay nothing for Windows (almost). It comes with your machine, just like that useless 16k flash card that came with your new point and shoot camera. It's free, and it's pretty much worth what you paid for it. If you don't like Microsoft having control over your hardware, go out and buy a different OS -- either the commercial version of Windows, or OSx or Linux, whichever suits.

          I've chosen Linux (with a VirtualBox install of XP for those Windows apps I can't live without)

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            "buy a different OS -- either the commercial version of Windows, or OSx or Linux,"

            Already purchased OSX, iOS, Android and have a distro of Linux.

            Also have a few copies of Windows 7 (pre Telemetary) and even a copy of XP all brought and paid for,

            I would "Happily" pay for a version of windows 10 that was a simple operating system without. telemetry, forced app installs, spyware and forced updates. I would even pay a premium to counter the loss that Microsoft make from Not being able to mine my "PERSONAL PRIVATE" information. but windows enterprise 1) is not completely clean of this bloat and 2) try going to M$ and saying can i please have only one copy of windows 10 enterprise... the answer is NO.

            I can just for once say i am supporting the French as they are challenging Microsoft slurping. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/20/france_windows_10_microsoft/

            just sell a TF / SWF version and that will keep me and probably data protection regulators happy. if people still want cheep and "user is the product" software they have made an informed choice and have an alternative. otherwise M$ are taking advantage of their dominant market position and imposing restrictive unfair terms i their ULA.

          2. Zakhar

            "you pay nothing for Windows (almost)"

            You are really out of your mind!

            Look here (sorry it is in French, but you can understand easily!)

            http://www.ldlc.com/informatique/ordinateur-portable/pc-portable/c4265/

            As you can see if you take the basic model this vendor really "play balls", that is they display the REAL price of Windows. So if you compare the first 2 machines, the one at (BI3-4H10) at 580€ and the other one (BI3-4-H10-H10) at 700€, you will notice the ONLY difference is W10!

            That is the O.S. is not at all free, it costs 120€. For this machine that is "entry level", that is almost 20% of the total price gone to slurpware.

            Of course, that is a "good vendor" that gives you a choice to buy a machine with or without slurpware. But for one "good vendor", there are thousands of thugs that force down you throat 20% (or more) of what you pay to something you don't necessary want.

            In my dictionary that is called: extortion. W10 and the "new policy" won't chance that, they will continue to extort people, because NO it is NOT free, not at all!

            When hardware was super expensive, you didn't even notice the extra charge of W$ that was around 5%, but now it becomes more and more irrelevant. When you start paying 20% or more in software for a machine, you start thinking twice!

            So please, stop pretending it is free. It is not, and apparently not close to ever be free.

            1. asdf

              >"you pay nothing for Windows (almost)"

              Funny it cost me over a hundred bucks for Win 10 for the kid's computer (he put together for gaming and worked his tail off and begged so I gave as gift, if I remember right it was the only version you can buy off their website now).

              1. Tom 7 Silver badge

                Windows is not free

                When I buyed a laptop a month or so ago I saved £79 by not having Windows 10 home and £109 by not having Windows 10vProfessional. That is 30% of the cost of a low end laptop.

                How much more I've saved by not having anything MS cloud based like anything MS is anyone's guess.

                1. Mpeler
                  Big Brother

                  Re: Windows is not free - saved £79 and £109

                  If nothing else, you've saved your privacy and sanity.

                  And they're more valuable than ANYTHING M$ could ever hope to "provide"...

          3. Richard Plinston

            > you pay nothing for Windows (almost). It comes with your machine,

            Actually, in most cases*, you do pay something for Windows that comes with the machine. Or specifically, the OEM has paid Microsoft and this is included in the cost.

            * Sometimes there are versions that are free to OEMs, such as 'Starter with Bing' that was locked

            into MS services.

            1. Updraft102 Silver badge

              Someone mentioned crapware on the Dell PCs above.

              There was a minor controversy a while back when Dell started offering one of its PCs (a laptop, I think) with Linux instead of Windows. People were shocked to find the Linux version had a cost premium above and beyond that of the Windows version.

              It turns out that the large amount of crapware Dell is paid to install on a new Windows PC nets them enough money to more than completely offset the cost of a Windows license. The Linux version, not being compatible with any of the crapware, was clean.

              So if your PC comes with crapware, dealing with removing all of that is the price you pay for Windows... or you could say that if Windows was free, the revenue from the crapware would subsidize part of the PC and lower the cost to you rather than pay for Windows.

              1. Richard Plinston

                > So if your PC comes with crapware, dealing with removing all of that is the price you pay for Windows... or you could say that if Windows was free,

                The OEM paid money to Microsoft for Windows and that cost is added to the cost of the machine. Even if crapware pays the OEM and subtracts cost from the machine that does not make Windows 'free' in any sense.

                1. smf

                  >The OEM paid money to Microsoft for Windows and that cost is added to the cost of the machine.

                  > Even if crapware pays the OEM and subtracts cost from the machine that does not make

                  > Windows 'free' in any sense.

                  It's free in the sense of free beer.

                  Producing beer costs money, if you get it without paying for it (i.e. free) then somebody is subsidising it.

                  Free TV stations (if you have them in your country) are also subsidised by adverts.

                  I don't think you understand what free (in the sense it was used) means.

                  1. Richard Plinston

                    > if you get it without paying for it (i.e. free)

                    But you don't get Windows for free. You are paying the OEM for the computer, part of that is going to Microsoft. Whether that price you pay is higher or lower because of other subsidies is irrelevant unless the whole product is free - you _are_ paying.

                    Alternately you may claim that 'the hard disk is free', but you have to pay for Windows.

          4. Not That Andrew

            RE: go out and buy a different OS

            Pro WAS a commercial version for Windows. Before MS to remove features, apparently to force SMB's to use EE.

          5. Reg Sim

            You do pay for Windows, the OEM pays MS to licence it for your computer, and you pay the OEM. Its also not particularly cheap. If you enjoy playing games you also do not have a huge choice of good OS for games and productivity.

            No I would rather like the EU data commisioner to come in and tell MS we need to beable to turn these things off, and when they are off they stay off unless we explicitly turn them back on.

            The 'Free upgrades' to windows 10 are for Microsofts benefit not ours. At least Windows 10 is not a usability disaster like windows 8.0.

            1. smf

              I have run every Microsoft OS since the 1980's. Windows 8.0 wasn't a usability disaster, it was a pr disaster. But then every version of windows has been, including windows 95. The problem with windows 95 was introducing that stupid start menu. The problem with windows 8 was removing the stupid start menu.

            2. asdf

              > If you enjoy playing games you also do not have a huge choice of good OS

              True three years ago not now with Steam on Linux and Mac

        4. Someone Else Silver badge
          Devil

          @ Credas

          It's this kind of intrusive bullshit that turned me from a fairly happy majority Windows 7/occasional Linux user to the reverse of that, to the point where Windows 10 is kept on hand for emergency use only.

          YMMV, of course, but for me, I'd only consider using Win7 for "emergency use only". Win 10 is itself an emergency, and fixing an emergency with another emergency just doesn't seem right.

    2. JetSetJim Silver badge

      I don't care if Win7 support ends waaay before Win10 support does, I'm still not "upgrading" with this shit going on

    3. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      Setting this registry values makes sweet FA difference on Windows 10 Pro anyway.

      Also, as soon as the primitive joke of an "app store" fires up it queues all manner of abject junk to be updated on the system. It doesn't matter if you immediately uninstall the rubbish, if there's an "update" queued the the PoS app store will just reinstall it regardless. Once all updates have been completed by the "app store", then it is possible to finally remove the rubbish. Resetting the app store makes no odds as the updates are already queued and in typical delightful MS fashion, entirely invisible.

      None of this can't be fixed with suitable PowerShell scripts that run on login or other schedules but the rubbish apps will be there for a period of time. One other thing noting is that these junk apps are installed per user, per machine therefore a user using a system that they haven't used before will have the junk apps installed just for them regardless of whether or not other users, or local administrators, have removed them on that system.

    4. Les Matthew

      "I want to know what to avoid"

      It would appear the simple answer to this is Windows.

    5. Captain Dallas

      It's becoming more obvious (to those that hadn't worked it out) that there was a reason they were 'giving' it away.

      The question now is, if you actually pay for this spamware, will you still be bombarded with ads from their 'partners'?

      1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        "The question now is, if you actually pay for this spamware, will you still be bombarded with ads from their 'partners'?"

        Those who upgraded from Windows 7 have also payed for their "free" version of Win 10 with a perfectly good copy of Windows 7. Now gone, and replaced with crap. And then they will continue to pay, and pay, and pay...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          > have also payed

          PAID! PAID!

          Dammit - is it really that difficult?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            "> have also payed

            PAID! PAID!

            Dammit - is it really that difficult?"

            No more difficult than "Damn it!"

          2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            I used to write "paid" until someone corrected me.. Also, the spell checker liked "payed" more this time -go figure! My defense it that English isn't my first language, and at least I don't write "I would of had there balls in a vice.." or "Here, here!" or "Their's no reason to say your going out tonight" or "Viola!" or similar. I'm trying. K?

  2. Kurt Meyer

    No thanks

    As if another reason was needed to avoid the clusterfuck known as Windows 10.

  3. Youngdog

    If you don't know how enable/disable any setting applied by GPO then you really shouldn't be using the Pro edition

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "If you don't know how enable/disable any setting applied by GPO then you really shouldn't be using the Pro edition"

      Read the following sentence from TFA several times until you understand it.

      "Certain settings can now only be applied to the Enterprise and Education editions of Windows Pro."

    2. LDS Silver badge

      If the build is compiled to ignore any registry setting you may apply manually....

    3. Fuzz

      You have missed the point by such a long way here.

      GP is a way for businesses to centrally manage settings in Windows and other software. Some of the settings handled by GP can be set in the gui. Most require obscure undocumented registry entries.

      The particular settings that are being talked about here have no corresponding setting within windows. The app promo is the thing that creates tiles on the start menu for any new user asking them to install candy crush.

      The pro version of windows has always fully supported GP. This allowed businesses to use the pro OEM license of the windows that came with the PCs they purchased. Now Microsoft is turning Pro into a weird stripped down OS to try and force companies to purchase enterprise.

      What they're going to find is that the centralised management provided by AD is the single most important feature of Windows in a business and there are going to be a lot of business who are already paying for server licenses and CALs to allow them to use AD that aren't going to fancy also paying for licenses for the OS.

      Note that Enterprise Windows isn't a license you buy instead of Professional, you already have to have an OEM pro license on the computer so you have to buy Windows twice just so that your users aren't asked to download Candy Crush every time they log into a PC.

      1. Bronek Kozicki Silver badge
        Coat

        I know this is beside the point ...

        .... but you could always install Start10 for your users, to replace builtin start menu. Start10 supports GP, you can download adm templates from vendor website, it is very cheap and is way better than builtin start menu anyway.

        Well of course, I do know that next month Microsoft will damage something else in Pro edition, making Windows 10 even worse for those who do not want, or cannot, switch to Enterprise of Education edition. See title ...

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Unhappy

          Re: I know this is beside the point ...

          "but you could always install Start10 for your users, to replace builtin start menu."

          only a partial fix. Classic Shell is FREE, but that's not enough either. You still have:

          a) adware

          b) spyware

          c) 2D FLUGLY interface

          d) "the METRO" all over the place, particularly "Settings" vs Control Panel.

          no thanks. I'd rather switch to an open source OS like Linux or BSD, or "go MAC".

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        So much FUD

        The particular settings that are being talked about here have no corresponding setting within windows. The app promo is the thing that creates tiles on the start menu for any new user asking them to install candy crush.

        yeah, there's no way at all apart from the setting "Occasionally show suggestions in Start" that is available to, er, turn off the app suggestions

  4. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Come on you MS Fans

    Please tell us again why we want to use this apology for an Operating System?

    I'd call it an AD Slinging Spyware Platform.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Come on you MS Fans

      Well, one of the usual apologists some time ago was assuring us that anyone wanting to use W10 for professional purposes should be using Enterprise.

    2. asdf

      Re: Come on you MS Fans

      >Please tell us again why we want to use this apology for an Operating System?

      Steam on Linux took away the last excuse at least for home use.

      1. veti Silver badge

        Re: Come on you MS Fans

        Steam on Linux might one day take away the last excuse for home use. But it is not this day.

        The list looks impressive, right up to the moment you try to search for a specific game you actually want to play.

        1. asdf

          Re: Come on you MS Fans

          Yeah have a feeling that is going to change sooner than later with what a fail Win10 is pushing to be.

  5. hplasm Silver badge
    Gimp

    They say you get what you pay for.

    It seems that MS's new model is 'You get what we want you to pay for.'

    1. Preston Munchensonton
      Coat

      Re: They say you get what you pay for.

      You get what we want you to pay for

      No, this has always been the model, but now with less flinging of chairs and jumping/screaming on stage.

      Is it sad that I sorta miss Ballmer?

  6. Avatar of They
    Flame

    Wow.

    Pro was a viable option of desperation because you could turn off their marketing shite, and now this.

    Seems M$ read forums about how people are getting round their crap.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Wow.

      I assume that some disgruntled windows user will dig through the crap and publish a program to do what MS is taking away.

      Not that it my problem any more, we moved ourselves and our clients off windows years ago.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Ivan4 - Re: Wow.

        Yeah, but that program can only be installed through Windows application store, with Microsoft blessing. Tough luck, mate!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @Ivan4 - Wow.

          As I said, no longer my concern, we are out of windows clutches.

          If, as you say, it can only be installed through the win app store isn't taking lock in a bit far or are they jealous of Apple?

          1. Ilsa Loving

            Re: @Ivan4 - Wow.

            If I may ask, what have you guys done about software that is typically Windows-centric, like Quickbooks, Microsoft Project, etc?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: @Ivan4 - Wow.

              Quickbooks --> GNUCash

              MS Project --> ProjectLibre

              1. veti Silver badge

                Re: @Ivan4 - Wow.

                I'm not familiar with GNUCash, but if it's anything like ProjectLibre I can only be thankful for that.

                Like OpenOffice and LibreOffice: it's only a substitute if your use-case involves the word "workaround" a lot.

        2. Number6

          Re: @Ivan4 - Wow.

          Yeah, but that program can only be installed through Windows application store, with Microsoft blessing. Tough luck, mate!

          Not if it's just a compiled executable which you can run from a command prompt. Or have they locked it down that much? I have a Win10 VM in case I ever actually need to use it, but at the moment I just fire it up, let it collect updates and then shut it down again. Perhaps I'll snapshot it before the Anniversary Update.

      2. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: Wow.

        Like when Bill Gates ranted and raved about how Internet Explorer was deeply woven into the operating system of Windows 98 and could not be removed... but some dude out there wrote Mozilla's Revenge, which would remove IE and replace it with the 95 OSR2 file explorer (which you had to supply due to copyright)?

        MS, the makers of the OS, could not do it, but this guy could?

        Or, just maybe, MS was lying.

        1. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip Silver badge

          Re: Wow.

          Depends how you define 'remove'. Given that IE came with rendering panes used outside the browser, XML controls, etc the definition is arguable. Not to mention the fact any URL typed into an explorer window is effectively using IE.

          To remove the main executable and stop any web related protocol being handled by the IE renderer would probably be sufficient, of course, leaving aside the fact most of the IE components would remain.

  7. regadpellagru
    FAIL

    turning the screw, slowly

    "Windows 10 has been a free upgrade for Home and Pro users, and it may be that accepting a modest amount of promotion is in this case the price of free."

    Well, this was long ago predicted in those forums every time something was discovered in W10. It's just coming progressively as it should. More to come ...

    1. Carl D

      Re: turning the screw, slowly

      "Windows 10 has been a free upgrade for Home and Pro users, and it may be that accepting a modest amount of promotion is in this case the price of free."

      Trouble is - you have to put up with the same BS even if you pay for Windows 10.

      And, as has been mentioned a few times before - W10 isn't really free. You still need to have a valid, paid for licence for W7 or 8.1 to be eligible for the 'free' downg...oops, sorry, 'upgrade'.

      And, thank goodness the 'free upgrade' finishes today. Now people can go back to using their paid for Windows 7 in peace. Unless we start getting nags to buy W10 now, of course. Nothing that MS does these days would surprise me anymore.

  8. Captain Badmouth
    Happy

    Win10 version of IOS?

    IOS - as in Internet of shit.

    and all who sail in her, etc....

  9. Kev99

    At least Ballmer had enough sense to know when to not allow BS changes. The new leadership at Redmond must be only concerned with their back pockets and not their customers. They're not only forcing adware and crapware down the throats of all users, but they're also strongarming other companies to not support any apps not written for Win10.

    1. Preston Munchensonton
      Linux

      The new leadership at Redmond must be only concerned with their back pockets and not their customers.

      Nonsense. If they were concerned with their back pockets, they would put their customers front and center ahead of everything. This is less about making customers happy and more about moving the same model that Google and Apple use. Unfortunately, MS is not realizing how many customers they're turning into Linux n00bs.

      1. asdf

        >how many customers they're turning into Linux n00bs.

        Never been a better time. Hell these days never have to touch the CLI (long gone are the days of praying you got the monitor timings right or spending a whole weekend getting ppp working). I just wish Red Hat wasn't trying to bury and piss on the grave of POSIX. Would be quite ironic as Linux on the desktop finally gains steam it continues to turn into Windows lite which is what is occurring.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      WTF?

      'sauce' please

      "They're not only forcing adware and crapware down the throats of all users, but they're also strongarming other companies to not support any apps not written for Win10."

      where was THIS reported? Is this REALLY happening? because, if it is, I'd like to see the evidence of it [so I can snark all over it on USENET and make sure everybody knows about it]

      With Windows 7 STILL outnumbering 8 + 10 by about 2:1, *NOT* targeting 7 for your appLICATIONS is like committing 'customer base' suicide. If appLICATIONS that target Windows 7 STILL RUN on W10, then there's EVERY reason to do THAT. Otherwise, Universal [CR]apps(sic) are ugly and I dont' wanna see that on my nice, 3D skeumorphic 7 system anyway.

      /me considering windows toolkit to draw everything 3D skeumorphic, even on 10

  10. LDS Silver badge

    "PROfessional" or "PROsumer"?

    It looks someone at MS fails to understand the needs of many PROfessionals who uses their computer for true work - often very important, not only to them - but are alone, or working in small teams. Most of them don't even know there are "enterprise" licenses, and wouldn't like the nuisances of that kind of licenses anyway, they just buy one or a few PCs, and they expect to use them as their work tools. Hey, even my medical doctor has her single PC with a pro license.

    I can't really understand why nobody at MS understand these are not a small percentage of Windows users, and believe they could shove down their throats a pure "consumer" experience which can have impacts on their work and impact their customers - or patients.

    It looks MS management is getting quickly out of touch with reality - and you wonder why. They're trying to turn people's desktop and laptops into a bad copy of a smartphone, ignoring their real needs. Nadella's stint, and his underlings, is truly showing how idiotic a company may turn, when starting to believe all money could come from reselling user data and adverts.

    Without understanding that alienating users is easy, regaining trust is not.

    1. hplasm Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: "PROfessional" or "PROsumer"?

      Ballmer said linux was cancer.

      It seems that Win10 is Zika, as it causes brain shrinkage.

      1. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: "PROfessional" or "PROsumer"?

        I am not sure of what the exact text was, but I think the gist of what he was saying was that the GNU license of Linux was like a cancer, attaching itself and spreading to everything it touches. He was talking about how if you use GNU code in a project, you're then obligated to release whatever derivative works you've developed under the GNU license as well, which makes a lot of commercial developers sketchy of developing on Linux.

        I don't think he is completely wrong about that. The GNU license was written by Richard Stallman, well known as a stalwart "all software should be free" true believer. He considers any use of non-free software to be unethical, including binary blobs in drivers. The GNU license was meant to reflect and promote that goal, and it is the complete opposite of what Microsoft believes about software.

        I do suspect that the GNU license (and the cadre of Linux users who expect all software to be free) has held Linux back in some ways (although some might say that this hold back is a feature, not a bug). A lot of FOSS develops at a plodding pace... when all of the developers are volunteers writing code in their free time, you can't tell them to turn their attention to some other part of the project that needs more work. You can't tell them to get focused on the job if they're not putting in ~40 hours a week.

        It's been demonstrated that the "bazaar" development method can produce high-quality products; the Linux kernel itself is a shining example. Without the profit motive, though, development is dependent on someone having that project as a hobby.

        Of course, a lot of FOSS does receive support from the for-profit world, but it's spotty: some projects get a good bit, some get none. I'd love to see WINE get more support; the ability of Linux to supplant Windows would be much greater if WINE was able to run all of the Windows stuff that tie people to Microsoft. They're doing a great job with the resources they have, but imagine how advanced WINE could be if it had the kind of backing that any project at a reasonably-sized for-profit software publisher has.

        1. Richard Plinston

          Re: "PROfessional" or "PROsumer"?

          > The GNU license

          You are probably referring to the GPL.

          > when all of the developers are volunteers writing code in their free time,

          Many FOSS developers work for large companies and are paid to do that development, many as their full time job. For example in IBM, Red Hat and (sometimes) Microsoft.

          1. Updraft102 Silver badge

            Re: "PROfessional" or "PROsumer"?

            "Many FOSS developers work for large companies and are paid to do that development, many as their full time job. For example in IBM, Red Hat and (sometimes) Microsoft."

            Yes, I know-- please refer to the last paragraph in the message I wrote.

        2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

          Re: "PROfessional" or "PROsumer"?

          "I don't think he is completely wrong about that. The GNU license was written by Richard Stallman, well known as a stalwart "all software should be free" true believer. He considers any use of non-free software to be unethical, including binary blobs in drivers."

          He was a bit before his time, though, don't you think?

          We are now getting to see what binary blobs really can do to our privacy.

    2. SImon Hobson Silver badge

      Re: "PROfessional" or "PROsumer"?

      It looks someone at MS fails to understand the needs of many PROfessionals who uses their computer for true work ...

      I suspect they fully understand - hence why they are deliberately pushing them to a paid version. As someone has already commented, it was predicted long ago that MS would start pushing sh*t, crippling features, etc on an ongoing basis so as to force everyone but the basic home user onto a paid subscription. Win10 was never "free", it was only "free" as in the "free samples" drug dealers anecdotally give prospective users to get them hooked. Once hooked in, the costs start to become apparent.

      So no, there's no lack of understanding - they know exactly what they are doing. What they don't seem to realise is just how "unpopular" they are making themselves. But, as has been pointed out again and again - they can make themselves unpopular, push sh*t on users, screw users over, but people still go back and keep buying their sh*t !

      1. LDS Silver badge

        Re: "PROfessional" or "PROsumer"?

        The issue is not a "paid" version, most of these users will pay or have paid to get the Pro license instead of the Home one. They will probably get an Enterprise if they could get a single one at their local reseller. The problem with enterprise licensing - when you know it exists - it's the nightmare of re-sellers, rules, contracts, minimums, assurances, renewals, etc. etc.

        My sister works as a freelance translator - she just needs a single PC able to run the specific translation tools she uses. About computers, she knows little more than starting it and her tools, use them and receive/send her materials. If "strange" changes happens to her computer - just like these promotions - she will call me because she will immediately fear a "virus" (and she would not be so wrong). How could she ever get a single Enterprise license??

        1. Someone Else Silver badge

          @ LDS -- Re: "PROfessional" or "PROsumer"?

          How could she ever get a single Enterprise license??

          Uhh...perhaps the same way millions (if you believe Micros~1's bullshit) of "users" have gotten their versions without going through legitimate channels...if you know what I mean <wink> <wink>...

      2. anoco

        Re: "PROfessional" or "PROsumer"?

        Yes, there is no lacking of understanding, but also there's no lacking of realizing how unpopular they are becoming. They know all about what they're doing. It's not shooting their own foot, it's shooting their own geeks.

        They no longer need geeks to be their apologists, as they are cheap and hard to please. They now have businesses doing that job and they pay to do it! MS has just decided that geeks are not worth the trouble anymore. Mozilla is also doing the same "FU geeks" in order to go after the uneducated masses.

        No point in complaining to them, they are not that into you anymore.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Or mere devaluation?

      "I can't really understand why nobody at MS understand these are not a small percentage of Windows users, and believe they could shove down their throats a pure "consumer" experience which can have impacts on their work and impact their customers - or patients."

      Unfortunately I think they understand all too well. I think the keyword here is devaluation. If you want to continue enjoying the same experience you can: you just need to pay a little extra. I think what we're seeing here is an obsessive desire for revenue.

      Windows 8 taught them that if people got a choice they wouldn't upgrade to something bad so...Choice got more or less taken out of the equation. And now it's time to try and cash in. Are you missing features? Poor you: better upgrade to that more expensive version ya'll!

    4. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: "PROfessional" or "PROsumer"?

      Business users typically use a very limited number of applications. The are not good targets for app store purchases, ads, and should be very allergic to spyware. They need an OS that allows them to run their applications without too much fuss. Winbloat 7 and its predecessors did a good job here. Winbloat 10, however, is becoming a disaster for both the home user and small business user. For many Linux or OS X is viable option.

    5. Wensleydale Cheese

      Re: "PROfessional" or "PROsumer"?

      "It looks someone at MS fails to understand the needs of many PROfessionals who uses their computer for true work - often very important, not only to them - but are alone, or working in small teams."

      This pretty much describes the situation of several family businesses I know. Think successful businesses with niche specialities, and one or two employees apiece.

      Enterprise licencing is not only total overkill for them, but could they even buy it for less than half a dozen PCs?

    6. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: "PROfessional" or "PROsumer"?

      "I can't really understand why nobody at MS understand these are not a small percentage of Windows users, and believe they could shove down their throats a pure "consumer" experience which can have impacts on their work and impact their customers - or patients."

      Maybe the judge in the court case will have also suffered the MS crap on his own personal PC by the time this gets to court.

      1. Shadow Systems Silver badge

        @John Brown Re: The judge...

        Enjoy a pint on me. I just envisioned the Queen of Hearts from Alice's Adventure's sitting with the gavel in hand, pounding the base repeatedly to drown out the hubbub, pointing it at the MS team & shouting "OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!"

        I would _SO_ like to see that scene! =-D

  11. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Maybe someone in Microsoft has discovered a warehouse full of unsold W7Pro disks.

  12. barstewardsquad
    FAIL

    SLATFATF

    I will keep the Win10 for work related stuff but I am now installing Linux to dual boot from, with Linux as the primary OS. Luckily I am able to do that, but will take a while to get the family moved across.

    1. Ilsa Loving
      Thumb Up

      Re: SLATFATF

      Upvote for making me google "SLATFATF". I would give you a second upvote if I could, for what it means.

      1. Alfie Noakes

        Re: SLATFATF

        HHGG

      2. Captain DaFt

        Re: SLATFATF

        Sad thing is, people jumped on the Free Win 10, without once considering the ancient wisdom; TANSTAAFL

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: SLATFATF

          "people jumped on the Free Win 10"

          I think it was the other way around.

    2. Number6

      Re: SLATFATF

      Unless you need gaming performance, install Linux as the primary OS and run Win10 in a VM. It'll do most things happily contained and you get to do as much as possible in a Linux environment without being stuck with Win10 just because it's "work" time.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Revenue enhancement suggestion

    For added effectiveness in getting cheapskate business users to switch (although not necessarily to a more expensive Windows SKU), MSFT could arrange that these installations of "recommended" third-party products commence five minutes after PowerPoint has been put into slide-show mode.

    1. Hollerithevo

      Re: Revenue enhancement suggestion

      PLEASE delete your post at once, or it will be from your lips to Microsoft's ear and we will be DOOMED.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Revenue enhancement suggestion

        "we will be DOOMED"

        No, just Powerpoint. There are small mercies.

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Linux

          Re: Revenue enhancement suggestion

          "we will be DOOMED"

          No, just Powerpoint. There are small mercies.

          who needs Powerpoint anyway? I once did a full-length presentation using web pages on github.io, for a related open source project. Web pages were intended to "look like powerpoint". Then I just needed a web browser, and click the 'next' button. Simple, effective. not a lot of work, either. Just need to code the HTML. Probably took less time than it WOULD have, wrangling Powerpoint's mousie-clickie interface.

          Which segue's into 'Captain Obvious' mode: how long before IT managers and financial officers discover that LIBRE OFFICE does everything Micro-Shaft office does, for FREE, without the need of Win-10-nic, "the cloud", or subscriptions, in order to use it?? Swap in commercial Linux if they must have IT support, or a free one if they can roll their own. I think an in-house Linux expert would cost considerably less...

  14. magickmark
    FAIL

    FAIL!!!!

    My main tower is still on Win 7 and staying that way but the last few days I have been looking at laptops and was thinking of getting Win 10 to try it out and get used to the idea of using it. But this has made me think again!

    It seems to be be getting more and more intrusive over time and makes me wonder where it will stop, if at all. Think I'll look at Linux or a Chrome Book!

    <Image>Evil Kitty picture with the text "All your OS's iz belong to ME!!"</Image>

    And yes I get the irony of using a Chrome Book :D

    1. Captain Badmouth
      Terminator

      Re: FAIL!!!!

      "It seems to be be getting more and more intrusive over time"

      All your cpu cycles are belong to us....

    2. keithpeter
      Coat

      Re: FAIL!!!!

      https://www.neverware.com/

      Strange name for a company but what you get is a downloadable image of a ChromeOS build aimed at recycled computers in education. The 'personal' edition is free to use. Their business model is selling support and management to educational institutions in the US.

      Disclaimer: I have no connection with these people at all. I just really liked being able to install ChromeOS on an old Thinkpad and decide that it wasn't what I needed at this point. Might be useful for a kiosk type system in a cafe or something.

      Coat: not my thread...

    3. fung0

      Re: FAIL!!!!

      magickmrk: "It seems to be be getting more and more intrusive over time and makes me wonder where it will stop, if at all. Think I'll look at Linux or a Chrome Book!

      Why not look at both? Most ChromeBooks will let you wipe Google's weirdo cloud OS and install Linux. The hardware is usually generic Intel, and tends to be a way better value than a Windows laptop. There are instructions all over the net for 'upgrading' most popular models.

      Personally, I'm loving my MintyBook. Boots Mint 18 in 15 seconds from power-on to login prompt. And lets me do everything I'd have wanted to do with a Windows laptop. Even runs Minecraft reasonably well...

  15. adnim

    Lemme fix that for ya

    "It is hard to see the value of Microsoft's "consumer experiences" in a business any context,..."

    Seems to be turning into a two choice operating system.

    Choice one: use it and and let Microsoft dictate your "experiences".

    Choice two: use another OS.

    1. Ilsa Loving

      Re: Lemme fix that for ya

      You forgot three: Pay through the nose to enjoy the privileges you used to get out of the box. (ie: Enterprise Edition)

  16. djstardust

    I'm looking for a new laptop

    As my 6 year old PC keeps crashing with the lid closed and it's a PITA that I can't seem to fix.

    I had a couple in mind but I'm still terrified about the telemetry and also the fact MS can change any feature of the OS at will with an update.

    Think I'm just gonna put up with my machine and reinstall 7 ultimate to see if that fixes it.

    Surely I can't be the only one feeling this way and the likes of Lenovo, Dell & HP must be seeing this reflected in their sales too.

    There are quite a few nice machines out there, it's the OS that's the problem .........

    1. Grade%

      Re: I'm looking for a new laptop

      "There are quite a few nice machines out there, it's the OS that's the problem ........."

      Yeah. Win10 is a deal breaker. :(

      1. Bronek Kozicki Silver badge

        Re: I'm looking for a new laptop

        You can buy this Lenovo model 20DK002EUK at scan.co.uk , at what I recon is less than ~60% of the original recommended price. It is last year top model with Core i7 5600, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD and 12" touch screen with HD resolution and wacom pen; bought it recently for wife and it is very very nice, small text on screen aside (but that's Windows problem). It comes with Windows 7, of course nothing stops you from making it dual boot or replacing it entirely with Linux. Or upgrading to Windows 10, but I guess that's not your preference :D

        1. djstardust

          Re: I'm looking for a new laptop

          Wow, thank you so much. That's exactly the spec I have been looking for and the price is amazing.

          Thank you Thank you Thank you :)

      2. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: I'm looking for a new laptop

        Absolutely Win 10 is a deal-breaker.

        In other, unrelated news, the pirates continue to make a fortune selling "legitimate" Windows 7 product keys without DVDs or anything else on eBay. MS could be making that money by selling Windows 7...

    2. YARR

      Have you run memtest86 on it to check for bad RAM? Corrupted memory is often a cause of random crashes on old PCs, though unfortunately modern laptops are often designed so the memory cannot be replaced.

      memtest86 is available on the boot menu of most Linux ISOs.

  17. Fuzz

    Next stop

    Next thing will be Microsoft removing the downgrade rights for professional so you can't install 7 under a Pro OEM license.

    Then the re-imaging rights will go, then the ability to use a KMS server. Then it will be no AD login apart from to azure and so the process will continue until eventually Pro will be Home edition with RDP.

  18. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Flame

    And so disappears the Personal Computer from Microsoft history

    "a feature which allows Microsoft to install "recommended" third-party apps and links on the Windows 10 Start menu. In the past this has included apps like Candy Crush Soda Saga, Flipboard and Twitter"

    Sorry ? An OS vendor that decides to install commercial 3rd-party products on MY computer ? And no lawsuit is coming out to put a stop to this nonsense ?

    From a country whose citizens file a suit if their coffee is too hot, I find that a bit rich on both sides. But really, I think it is high time to file a class-action suit defining what an Operating System is and is allowed to do.

    Because installing Candy Crush without my permission is the last straw. Now it's pitchfork time !

    1. Preston Munchensonton
      Coat

      Re: And so disappears the Personal Computer from Microsoft history

      But really, I think it is high time to file a class-action suit defining what an Operating System is and is allowed to do.

      Don't like it? Don't use it or buy it. Money talks...

      1. Captain Badmouth
        Happy

        Re: And so disappears the Personal Computer from Microsoft history

        It appears there are 2 class action suits in the pipeline :

        http://www.infoworld.com/article/3101744/microsoft-windows/the-get-windows-10-campaign-will-see-its-day-in-court.html

    2. Wade Burchette Silver badge

      Re: And so disappears the Personal Computer from Microsoft history

      "From a country whose citizens file a suit if their coffee is too hot, I find that a bit rich on both sides."

      Read the terms of service. I have copied the relevant part here:

      Binding Arbitration and Class Action Waiver if You Live in (or if a Business Your Principal Place of Business is in) the United States.

      We hope we never have a dispute, but if we do, you and we agree to try for 60 days to resolve it informally. If we can’t, you and we agree to binding individual arbitration before the American Arbitration Association (“AAA”) under the Federal Arbitration Act (“FAA”), and not to sue in court in front of a judge or jury. Instead, a neutral arbitrator will decide and the arbitrator’s decision will be final except for a limited right of appeal under the FAA. Class action lawsuits, class-wide arbitrations, private attorney-general actions, and any other proceeding where someone acts in a representative capacity aren’t allowed. Nor is combining individual proceedings without the consent of all parties. “We,” “our,” and “us” includes Microsoft, the device manufacturer, and software installer.

      1. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: And so disappears the Personal Computer from Microsoft history

        A court could invalidate that entire section in a second. A lot of what is in EULAs is questionable in terms of what would stand up in court, and MS only gets the benefit of the doubt while there is doubt. There are so many people that are so angry about this that I would not be surprised if someone challenges that section of the EULA, and we can see if it means what it says or if it's just wasted black pixels.

        In terms of the one class-action suit against MS I've heard of so far, the EULA won't apply, because it concerns unwanted upgrades-- meaning the Windows user never accepted the EULA.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: And so disappears the Personal Computer from Microsoft history

        " Class action lawsuits, class-wide arbitrations, private attorney-general actions, and any other proceeding where someone acts in a representative capacity aren’t allowed."

        He, he.. MS acting as judge, jury and executioner?

        Good one! That's gonna fly! Nice try though...

  19. bozoid

    Here's hoping that Classic Shell will hide this "promotional" crap, as it hides so much of the other BS in Windows. For me, Classic Shell and Classic Explorer have been the only things that make Win7 and Win10 usable.

    1. Captain Badmouth
      Pint

      Re : Classic shell

      How long before win10 removes classic shell as "not compatible", I wonder?

      It's that time again, byeeee.......

  20. Teiwaz Silver badge

    Shouldn't Advertising Standards not force them to remove 'Pro' from the product title? This doesn't sound like a professional product any more.

  21. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Fuck.

    This.

  22. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip Silver badge

    Glad I've not upgraded anything

    Bought a couple of cheap refurbished Windows 7 licences, used those in VMs to upgrade to Windows 10, so I can check it out if need be, and migrate it to other VM systems.

    Not going to upgrade the computer driving my projector, because Windows 10 removes media centre - the main reason I upgraded to Windows 8.

    Not going to update the gaming PC, as it doesn't have a DX12 capable graphics card, and Windows 10 (fairly sensibly to be honest) stopped Securom games working.

    Definitely not going to update my working Windows VM on my main Xen system, with the shifting nature of what Windows 10 can and can't do. If they sold single user non subscription licenses of Windows 10 LTSP Enterprise I might have done so.

    Laptop is going to go from Vista (working fine for years, never really needed upgrading), probably to FreeBSD. Will see if I can convince Virtualbox to run Windows 7 with Direct3D in a VM, and receive acceptable performance. Pity Xen/KVM don't support that yet.

    I still like Windows, but I think I may start switching my main Windows VM from allowing it to accessing a reasonably fast passed through Quadro, to the slow Quadro normally passed through to FreeBSD, and make that my primary VM. This may be the year of de-emphasing Windows.

  23. ma1010 Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Evolution in action?

    Arrogant bastards tend to be their own undoing in the long run. They get to thinking they're invulnerable and invincible and then they make that fatal mistake, like Hitler, flushed with his successes in Europe, invading the Soviet Union. That didn't work out too well for him in the end.

    Now MS is turning their operating system into spyware and ad-slinging crapware. They seem almost hell-bent on alienating as many of their user base as possible. I think they're putting themselves on a road to nowhere.

    Maybe this is some form of evolution in action.

    1. Someone Else Silver badge

      Re: Evolution in action?

      Perhaps not so much evolution, as Darwinism (like in the award...).

  24. Dwarf Silver badge

    Its all about alignment

    Remember the mantra that desktop and mobile must be a consistent experience.

    Now that we've had confirmation that the mobile division is being scaled right down as nobody is buying the junk, and we know that the same "alignment" approach is being taken on tablet and desktop - UEFI lockdown on mobile devices; less and less control over OUR desktop devices; confirmation that Windows 10 won't reach the expected volumes - as people refuse the "free" downgrade..

    It seems that everyone in the real world has figured out what is happening, except those who are at the helm in Microsoft. For some reason, Titanic and icebergs spring to mind.

    Anyone want popcorn whilst we sit back and watch ?

    We all know where this ends up - the same place as where all the other over-confident mega-corps went to when they tried silly things to their customer base.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Its all about alignment

      "It seems that everyone in the real world has figured out what is happening"

      Not quite. There are some "trendy" (loudmouth) types who think a PC is a scaled up locked in smartphone.

      Those are the easily fooled target group it seems. Just can't see them make up the numbers for MS!

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    As M$ loves locked down versions:

    Its time to start selling ROM versions of their shit OS.

    1. VinceH

      Re: As M$ loves locked down versions:

      "their shit OS."

      I know it was a very childish thing to, but...

      Yesterday I was presented with a machine newly downgraded to Windows 10 and which, as a result, had no network connectivity. After much failure trying to sort it, the owner backed it up and I rolled it back to Windows 8.

      Part of that process includes telling Microsoft why. The reason I gave was "Windows 10 is shit."

      (Rolling the computer back, incidentally, didn't solve the problem - the network interfaces still couldn't be coaxed back into life, even after reinstalling drivers provided by the manufacturer. In the end, reinstalling the OS from scratch turned out to be the solution. I didn't do this myself because of the time of day - but I told the owner how to do it; he did so and this morning rang me to let me know it worked.)

      1. djstardust

        Re: As M$ loves locked down versions:

        Same thing happened to me. Turns out if you have VPN software installed (I didn't even know I had as it was bundled) the downgrade to Win 10 screws your wireless connection completely, even when you go back. complete OS install is the only way out.

        Shite innit?

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          WTF?

          Re: As M$ loves locked down versions:

          "Turns out if you have VPN software installed the downgrade to Win 10 screws your wireless connection completely, even when you go back."

          *violently shakes head*

          WHAT? THE? **FEEL**???

          This reminds me of that Sony CD ROM driver thing from a while back, where inserting an 'equipped' Sony music CD would "update" your computer's CD handler, without your knowledge or permission, often breaking the ability to listen to audio CDs (a lawsuit forced them to make removal tools available, as I recall, and the bad press hurt them significantly).

          Now, certain nations are ALREADY making VPN illegal, so you cannot AVOID being snooped on. Is this just a way of FORCING THIS UPON THE WORLD ???

          At this point, NOTHING of the sort would surprise me.

  26. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

    it enables

    "personalized recommendations from Microsoft and notifications about their Microsoft account."

    Well Microsoft. How about if my profile includes a deep and profound revulsion at scumbag marketing of the lowest gutter order level?

    1. Down not across

      Re: it enables

      "personalized recommendations from Microsoft and notifications about their Microsoft account."

      Microsoft account. Ah yes, I never logged into that from the one Win10 (a laptop that came with it preinstalled, so thought I'd see how it is before replacing with something more functional) machine I have. Incidentally that also seems to stop Cortana from working. I wonder how much, if at all, it being microsoft account unaware might hinder the slurping tendencies.

      The forced updates (and reboots if updates need them) are very annoying. You open the laptop to carry on what you were doing previous day to find out it has helpfully rebooted on you.

      1. Wensleydale Cheese
        Unhappy

        Those incessant reboots,,,

        "The forced updates (and reboots if updates need them) are very annoying. You open the laptop to carry on what you were doing previous day to find out it has helpfully rebooted on you."

        Incessant reboots are incredibly disruptive. Enough exposure to almost any other OS will tell you that it doesn't have to be this way.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: it enables

        " You open the laptop to carry on what you were doing previous day to find out it has helpfully rebooted on you."

        That's if you are lucky. Most of the time it won't fully boot until spending half an hour (or a lot more) finishing the very important updates. Spinning that indicator but saying nothing useful at all.

        MS *should* have fixed their idiotically and embarrassingly inefficient update system now when they force updates, but they seem to have failed to do so. MS acts like a 1970s state run utility. Can't give a sh*t about the customer.

        How come Linux can update the system in the background in 10 minutes without me even noticing? AND not force me to do sh*t after.

    2. Updraft102 Silver badge

      Re: it enables

      "Well Microsoft. How about if my profile includes a deep and profound revulsion at scumbag marketing of the lowest gutter order level?"

      I'm sorry, but you have misunderstood what we meant by "personalized." We didn't mean that the ads would be selected according to your preferences. We meant that they would be selected according to our preferences for you.

  27. hakr
    WTF?

    I really can't believe this - does Microsoft WANT businesses to switch to GNU/Linux? It was bad enough how they treated consumers like trash and forced them to buy Pro or switch to GNU to get their computers back. Now even a ridiculously expensive upgrade isn't enough? Small businesses will be directly affected and large enterprises will be wary of what ridiculous changes will be made to their precious Enterprise license next, after the wreck Pro. The good news is that maybe more mainstream companies will start selling PCs w/o WinDoze.

  28. ab-gam
    FAIL

    Win Pro -- the New XP?

    I just got done getting most of my newer machines licensed for the "free" 10 Pro upgrade. Licensed only - they are still running 7Pro. I did this with full faith that at some point 10 Pro would be a viable option for my company's end user systems.

    Now I'm reading that this was a waste of time, as the tweaks that made 10 a good corporate citizen have been neutered instead of being improved.

    Being at a place that spends money like its made of their own bone marrow, having to ask for a new budget line to 'pay again for something we already have' so I can get the LTSB Enterprise build is a non-starter.

    I'm predicting W7Pro will become the next XP. Being held onto by many long, long after MS wants it abandoned.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Win Pro -- the New XP?

      "I'm predicting W7Pro will become the next XP. Being held onto by many long, long after MS wants it abandoned."

      It seems MS still haven't worked out why that happened to XP.

      1. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: Win Pro -- the New XP?

        Does this mean we get an extra three years of security support on 7 too? That would be awesome.

  29. Howard Hanek
    Childcatcher

    I Don't WANT To See the Outer Limits

    "There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: there is nothing wrong with your television set. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to – The Outer Limits."

    Group Policy disabled? I don't LIKE having defaults changed and be forced to use third rate applications with limited features.

    1. fung0

      Re: I Don't WANT To See the Outer Limits

      Thanks for that blast from the past! One of my favorite shows of all time... and that classic VO intro definitely seems relevant today.

      1. VinceH
  30. Lloyd

    I've always wondered if MS were going to commit Tech Suicide

    And now I have an answer, they've been borderline before, specifically ME, Vista, 8.0 but this really takes the p155. All of our work systems have already switched to various flavours of Linux, AWS and Postgres due to exorbitant MS licensing now WIndows itself has become untenable, I guess we see where Linux goes. Apologies I have just taken the team for refreshments and 5 pints later I'm a tad wobbly.

  31. Harry Stottle

    Matters Arising...

    1) for those who have already applied the tweaks, do they remain tweaked?

    2) can we use wushowdiag.cab to block the upgrade infection?

    (and if so, does anyone know what KB number to look out for. Sergey Tkachenko's article does tell us it's build 14393 and Martin Brinkmann refers to Build 1607 so that's a clue)

    3) if all else fails, will host file ip blocking still work?

    1. Harry Stottle

      Re: Matters Arising...

      and, to any US based readers: If you're prepared to organise a Class Action against the bastards, I'm hereby pledging the first $100 towards the fund...

      1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

        Re: Matters Arising...

        Not part of the class unfortunately, Linux on all devices with a couple of old W7 partitions floating around.

    2. Updraft102 Silver badge

      Re: Matters Arising...

      Host file blocking has already been tried with Windows 10. It doesn't work to stop the phone-home stuff. Either the IP addresses themselves are coded in, or it chooses not to parse the hosts file when it comes to "important" Microsoft business.

      Router-level blocking of the IPs may work, though some consumer routers won't block encrypted packets even when told to (!)-- and a lot of the ones MS sends home are encrypted.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Paris Hilton

        Re: Matters Arising...

        > though some consumer routers won't block encrypted packets even when told to (

        How do these routers find out said packets are encrypted??

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Counting down the days

    Will be retiring from Windows SW development this year.

    Chance of me continuing to use Windows on a daily basis = Zero

  33. Frank N. Stein

    Really??

    This string arm tactic nonsense hasn't worked yet and isn't going to work. My Windows 10 computer is only used for gaming. Everything else is done on my Mac, which doesn't run or need the latest OSX.

  34. Shadow Systems Silver badge

    I'll vote with my wallet.

    Since MS refuses to accept No Means No as an answer, I refuse to accept Windows on my next computer. To that end I'm buying a computer built by a Linux dealer so it will arrive with Linux already installed, configured, & working. No more Windows for me.

    If the only thing that will make MS take notice is to hit them where it hurts, then I'm going to put on my steel toed boots to deliver the kick to the balls. I'll vote with my wallet & let them choke on their new POS OS.

    MS. Fuck 'em.

  35. TheFunkeyGibbon

    So...

    Time to get over to distro watch I guess...

    1. Updraft102 Silver badge

      Re: So...

      Might I suggest Linux Mint (main edition with Cinnamon). It seems to be the favorite of the tech-aware Windows refugee, and I'm certainly one of those... been using it a couple of months now, and I really like it. The Cinnamon main (start) menu and panel (taskbar) remind me more of Windows 7 as I have it configured (with the taskbar in classic non-grouping mode like previous versions of Windows) than any later version of Windows. Just be aware that it's not Windows and when it does something differently, there's probably a reason, and it's probably better this way.

      One thing that a lot of people say holds Linux back is the fragmentation and the difficulty in distributing software when the installation procedure is different for so many distros. It seems like Mint and other Debian/Ubuntu derivatives (which install the same way) are reaching a high enough market share within Linux to be something of a standard... not to disparage users of other distros who have been at the Linux game far longer than I have, of course, but for average people that just want to install stuff and have it work, this seems like the way that Linux on the desktop is going.

  36. Rory B Bellows
    Windows

    Microsoft Account vs Local Account

    The full description of the feature states that it enables "personalized recommendations from Microsoft and notifications about their Microsoft account."

    So this won't affect people using a Local account then?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Microsoft Account vs Local Account

      So this won't affect people using a Local account then?

      If you believe that then I have a bridge for sale going cheap.

      1. Rory B Bellows
        Joke

        Re: Microsoft Account vs Local Account

        you need to have a microsoft account to buy bridges

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Microsoft Account vs Local Account

          You appear to be trying to buy a bridge. You're going to need help with that so here's some bridge vendors who've paid us to be listed here and the address of MS legal services who will supply the contract we know you want based on our analysis of your usage patterns.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft Account vs Local Account

      "So this won't affect people using a Local account then?"

      No, I read on infoworld that the "feature" (aka intrusive and irritating ADVERTISING) creeps into the 'lock screen' now, which can no longer be BYPASSED in the 'Pro' version. At least, that's my understanding.

      So, regardless of 'Micro-shaft Account" preferences, I bet you'll see ads when you boot up, and you won't be able to bypass them.

      Thanks, Micro-Shaft !!! You're inventing NEW ways to circle the drain, on your way to the cesspit of formerly successful companies that managed to go from the top to the dung heap.

  37. Tromos

    2017 is the year of...

    ...Windows off the desktop.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This is only the beginning

    Stay tuned for more abuse! You know you wanted it!

  39. Tubz
    WTF?

    So the true reason M$ gave away Windows 10, free advertising route. Wouldn't be surprised if the instances of pirated Enterprise increases !

  40. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Entirely expected

    But they might have had the decency to let the body get cold first.

  41. raving angry loony

    It's official

    Buy Microsoft, get fucked over. That's been their unofficial motto for 30 years, but they've just made it completely official.

    I'll stay with Win 7 for my games, thanks. I've pretty much managed to move almost everything else to Linux and/or BSD.

  42. anoco

    MS is Trumping

    Microsoft is not shooting their own foot. They have realized that the largest group of windows users are stupid clueless sheep that will follow and do whatever they say.

    We have plenty of examples of companies and people doing the same. Google, Apple, Facebook, Trump. They all prey on the "uneducated user", and there are plenty of them.

    Once they hook the idiots with free crack, they know the big companies will not spend the money training them to use Linux or Chromoid. These same companies will gladly pay their racket fees to Redmond as they become parents of addicts.

    So, what they are saying is "FU geeks". You may be smart and marriage material but there are plenty of other bitches for the taking out there. Plus they don't complain about a little roughness and pay for dinner as well.

    This is the time where people that like to control the relationship with their OS provider need to take the red pill and learn Linux once and for all, or take the blue pill and let W10 have fun with their ass.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      If you must bring politics into it, opponents are just "stupid" in different ways. Being "educated" with one idea can make people blind to alternatives.

      1. anoco

        Sorry, I didn't understand about "opponents". Are you defending Microsoft's way of doing business by saying that educated people are blind to the benefits MS offers?

        Or are you just responding to what you understood to be a political dig. I only used Trump because of his statement that he loves the "uneducated voter" http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/watch-trump-brag-about-uneducated-voters-the-hispanics-20160224 Just like MS and Apple love the uneducated computer user, and Facebook and Google love the uneducated smartphone user.

        Not trying to discuss his political views. Just his methods. Or can't one analyze a politician's methods without bringing politics into the discussion?

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Mushroom

          "uneducated" users? Try "indoctrinate" ones!

          "I only used Trump because of his statement that he loves the 'uneducated voter' "

          well, it's been MY view that "education" is highly overrated, ESPECIALLY if the 'education' is merely 'indoctrination' into a specific method of thinking. Self-taught programmers are GENERALLY BETTER than the drones that colleges excrete. Well, I'm generally self-taught so there you go! I took night classes to improve my skills, of course, but no paper pedegree, just decades of experience that PROVES I can ACTUALLY get the job done. Too bad the snooty-snobs think that a paper pedegree is important. They can continue with their 'mediocre hires' and skip the truly great ones over that. I'll just do work for the startups that need someone who's fast, efficient, and gets things DONE, and can't afford to pay an "occupant" to effectively just sit there filling up a chair.

          that being said...

          It's not "uneducated users" that would fall into the Win-10-nic trap. It may, in fact, be the INDOCTRINATED users that "feel" that Win-10-nic is so great, and are WILLING TO TOLERATE the advertising.

          As one of the first posters pointed out, "slowly turning the screw". Or, the classic 'frog in a pot' that doesn't notice the water heating up until he falls asleep from the nice hot bath and ends up as frog soup.

          If Linux distros were to try that, the distro forks (and widespread competition) would force them out of the way.

          It's really time for the computer makers to solidly consider shipping Linux-loaded computers at the REDUCED PRICE that "no Win-10-nic" would allow for, so that people MUST pay extra to get Win-10-nic. New computer sales WILL rise, though slowly at first, as more software makers get on board and produce Linux versions. BUT... the "consumer only" crowd will QUICKLY LEARN that their favorite browsers can STILL access Face-barph and Tw[a,i]tter, they can read their e-mail, they can watch YouTube videos, and do it WITHOUT Micro-Shaft's intrusive ADVERTISING.

          (ok they'll still have ads within the browsers, but you can filter that more easily in browsers like Firefox by using things like NoScript)

          1. anoco

            Re: "uneducated" users? Try "indoctrinate" ones!

            Buddy, just so I make myself clear. An educated person doesn't mean a person that went to school. You can be an educated person in one area without ever having gone to school for it. In the other hand you could get a degree and still be uneducated in many areas, which is the norm these days.

            So that you know, the best thing learned in over 20 years of school was how to learn. So I can teach myself what I want, just like you and millions of others.

            If you're indoctrinated by anything then you have not educated yourself on how to make independent decisions. So in this case indoctrinated is the same as uneducated. We're not that far apart, just coming from different directions.

    2. Captain DaFt

      Re: MS is Trumping

      "or take the blue pill and let W10 have fun with their ass."

      No need for metaphor, the PHBs don't understand.

      Put it in plain talk:

      "Upgrade to Win 10 and let MS siphon your business account."

    3. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: MS is Trumping

      "Microsoft is not shooting their own foot. They have realized that the largest group of windows users are stupid clueless sheep that will follow and do whatever they say."

      Nah.. The mainstream home users have already left for smartphones and tablets.

      The pros, the tinkerers, and the gamers are all that's left now, and only the gamers MIGHT put up with the ad nonsense. I don't see gamers being able to hold MS under its arms in the long run.

      MS is doomed in the long run. It's just an alternative to Android now, but much more annoying and running on old fashioned massive archaic power wasting computer rigs. Bit like mainframes for the home.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: MS is Trumping

      Yea as an attorney for Trump I guess I'm one of those "uneducated users". Actually the uneducated user is a stupid sheep for lying Hillary Clinton & the pandering Left. Don't believe everything the lying lamestream media tells you like Brexit will lose in the polls. A truly educated intellectual with common sense will vote Trump & vote Brexit.

  43. Haku
    Flame

    Wait what? Forced app installs?

    You can fuck right off!

  44. Jonathan 27 Bronze badge

    I"m slowly moving towards using Linux for more and more. If only more games were available I wouldn't need Windows.

  45. DanceMan

    I just went through the nightmare (navigating around 8.1 and dealing with Win Update) of moving a year-old unused new laptop to 10 with the intent of then installing an ssd and Mint 18 with 10 in a VM. Just decided to image the 10 install for future possibilities and put 7 in the VM instead. Been using Mint 17.3 on a couple of other laptops and very happy with it for browsing, couple of issues with the linux versions of programs I use. After at least a decade of thinking about linux, I've finally made the switch and I'm not going back. The hassles of using Win now exceed the hassles of using linux.

  46. nweightman

    I have windows 10 pro running on my much older Acer 6920G and it runs without problems. I am concerned that a forced update and changes in the policies that I certainly use to stop certain things from being installed is changed, then I might jump ship over to the Linux platform. I already use a Linux server for most of my stuff already, it wouldn't be too much of a change moving over to it completely. Microsoft I feel is going too far in forcing things on people who do not want them regardless of the OS being issued free of charge as an upgrade.

  47. raving angry loony

    Microsoft apologists?

    Still waiting to hear from the Microsoft apologists out there. The ones who think Microsoft is wonderful because they're popular, and are popular because they're wonderful. The ones who insist that anything Microsoft does is obviously wonderful for everyone, because otherwise why would they do it?

    Waiting for your defence of this latest shitty idea.

    Still waiting...

    1. Bronek Kozicki Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft apologists?

      Well, I do use Windows, a lot. In a virtual machine. Running on Linux. I try to set it so that all the important software (e.g. filesystem with all the important files, file server, dlna, email server etc) runs on Linux, and "lipstick on pig" kind of software is on Windows, which is pretty but cannot be trusted.

      But to try to explain what Microsoft is doing? That's beyond me. I guess they just do not like their users anymore, and I find that honesty refreshing. Well there I said it, my best attempt at explaining how wonderful it is :)

  48. JEF_UK

    Feel Smug in...

    Oh; I'm All ready smug!

    Told you so.

    :p

    My Gaming PC stayed on 7.

    I bet the ability to turn off CEIP will be next to go.

  49. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    God, I'm sooo surprised!

    Who would ever have thought?

    Seems MS is leaning more towards the toy sector nowadays.

  50. DaveNullstein

    Professional != Consumer. They are pulling a giant bait and switch and need to be sued. Sign me up for the class action lawsuit.

  51. Number6

    Port Your Major Programs

    So what it needs is a bit of effort and commitment from major business providers to produce Linux versions - we could have Solidworks and Pro-E for mechanical engineers, Cadence could port OrCAD, Altium could do the same with their product to keep electrical engineers happy, Mathcad for numerical people, Adobe for their suite (although they've gone all cloudy). We already have an adequate office suite and messaging solutions exist albeit with a bit of improvement needed.

    That would get a fair few people off of Windows who are only still there for one application - if you've got to update your code to cope with Win10 then why not nudge it to something else instead or as well?

    Think of all the times you've been shafted by MS in the past and take it as an opportunity to get one back.

  52. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A lot of people don't care bout privacy etc on their mobiles, why is spying on their desktop/laptop suddenly such an issue?

  53. Dandy

    And you can't refuse updates only at best defer them - aye there's the rub. Linux here I come.

  54. Sirius Lee

    Can someone explain...

    ...how it's possible for someone with admin rights to a machine to be able to disable a feature while sitting in front of the machine but not be able to do it remotely through a GPO? I get that there a specific option may have been removed from a specific version of Windows but what prevents an administrator creating their own GPO to, for example, run a remote login script? What am I missing?

  55. BuckoA51

    and here I was thinking...

    ..that now we have Bash in Windows 10 there's no need to ever boot my Linux box again :)

    Still, while this is unquestionably a dick move by Microsoft I guess third party software can disable/work around these issues if necessary. Classic Shell plus Spybot anti-beacon if required.

  56. Bastard-Wizard
    FAIL

    There are already class-actions looming. Removing useful features (that may have factored into purchase decisions) like this tends to attract lawsuits and regulatory scrutiny. They've already lost/settled a few cases over the force-upgrade snafu.

    I suspect these gpedit toggles won't be gone from Pro for good; and even if they are, MS will lose a lot of face and cash in the lawsuits that are sure to come. (Courts don't always enforce arbitration clauses and choice-of-law provisions like the ones that feature in the EULA; they almost never enforce max-damages provisions such as the ones that are rather amusingly there.)

    See: Sony PS3 "Other OS" class-action, which recently settled.

    1. Bastard-Wizard
      Mushroom

      Well, the update. So, not only does it remove the GPedit toggle, it changes them back to default if they were already set.

      Oh, and annoyingly, the registry key one used to be able to add to get rid of the stupid lockscreen doesn't work anymore either (though it still adds the policy message in the menu.) I suspect the others don't either.

      Better still, all the bloatware I removed/disabled via powershell is back now.

      Yay, progress. Here's hoping I get a minuscule class-action payout out of this.

  57. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Does this still work?

    Disable Microsoft Consumer Experience with Registry Editor

    Hit the Windows key, type regedit, press Enter and click OK.

    Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows and then select or create the CloudContent key.

    Select or create the DWORD value DisableWindowsConsumerFeatures and set its value to 1.

    1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      "Does this still work?

      Disable Microsoft Consumer Experience with Registry Editor"

      Does anyone even care any more?

      Windows is broken, and so it Microsoft. Furthermore, MS is hell-bent on making sure it stays broken.

      Get a new OS, from a different manufacturer. The Ford Edsel isn't gonna be worth repairing any more.

  58. dmacleo

    this is gonna suck.

    volunteer for a church with 8 client pc on win 10 pro with server 2012r2 essentials ('nix and/or wine/wirtualization NOT an option) and wonder if logon script invoking powershell will fix this.

  59. dmacleo

    wonder if using host file to block ip these ads come from would work.

    use wsus so updates would not get blocked by that.

  60. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Can someone show me where in the EULA you agree to be advertised to, via the CoreOS?

    "Internet Explorer"/"Edge" fair enough, but installing new software (even the Try Office365 thing) could be construed as mis-use of computing? (given you don't get to choose what updates to accept anymore...)

  61. nez.mahon

    Screw you MS!

    MS you utter, utter w@nkers!

    I'm so glad I deployed Win 10 Pro to my 300+ users... right before you hamstrung it.

    Thank you so very much for wasting a week of my life.

    I am honestly half inclined to go to your nearest local office and punch someone repeatedly in the head. Furious does not begin to cover it.

    Maybe you could have told us this a couple of weeks ago?

    "Pro" is Pro. It costs a premium over home edition.

    Times like these I wish my users were tech-savvy enough that I could switch them all to Ubuntu.

    Could we maybe take legal action here? They offered one thing and then changed the rules.

  62. 101

    How much will you pay to make the pain go away?

    This is standard business practice of our corporate overlords.

    Give free carrot, add sheep dung to carrot when consumer becomes conditioned to free carrot, force consumer to pay recurring ransom to make the dung taste and smell go away.

    Or, of course, you can just eat dung.

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