back to article Israel's security minister suckers Zucker for Facebook'ed killings

Israel's Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan has blamed Facebook founder Mark Zukerberg for the killing of Hallel Ariel and Michael Marks. The Minister told local program Meet the Press Facebook does not do enough to alert security forces to terrorist-related posts after Ariel's killer Muhammad Tarari posted to the social …

  1. tfewster Silver badge
    Facepalm

    I have no love for Facebook...

    ..but blaming Facebook for not doing the Security Services job for them is a bit unfair!

    1. Ole Juul

      Re: I have no love for Facebook...

      Nothing is fair, but Security Services asking Facebook to do their work is a bit like getting mom to do your homework.

      1. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Re: I have no love for Facebook...

        Security Services asking Facebook to do their work is a bit like getting mom to do your homework.

        But there's a lot of mom's who will do junior's homework.... maybe that's the precedent?

    2. g e

      But don't Israel have the most capable security service in the world?

      Bit shit if they don't monitor FB then aren't they.

      May as well blame Smith & Wesson for people getting shot or, perhaps more appositely, IWI who make Uzis

      1. Dabooka Silver badge

        Re: But don't Israel have the most capable security service in the world?

        RE: Suing S&W et al

        Actually I'm sure that's been done before, just one recent example;

        Remington

        No idea on the success of these claims though, and I certainly take the point you're making.

    3. Craigness

      Re: I have no love for Facebook...

      Facebook is more than happy to work for Germany's security services, so why not Israel's? But there is consistency here - they support one and not the other and in both cases they are working for the interests of Islam.

  2. wolfetone Silver badge

    Oh so it's Facebook that's the problem., not how Israel treats Palestinians?

    Silly me. I've got it so wrong for so long!

    1. SundogUK Silver badge

      Great. Now the register is infected by anti-semites.

      1. krivine

        Criticism of Israel != antisemitism

        You do the cause of antisemitism no favours by conflating legitimate criticism of the Israeli government with antisemitism.

      2. wolfetone Silver badge

        "Great. Now the register is infected by anti-semites."

        I have been brought up to respect people, of all faiths etc. I treat those of the Jewish faith the same way as I treat those of the Islamic faith, Catholic faith and Atheist faith - which is no faith, but you get the idea.

        However, to call me an anti-semite is wrong, misguided and slanderous. Me critising the actions of a government of a country does not equate to it being anti-semetic towards the religion of that country. By definition, anti-semitism is:

        "discrimination against or prejudice or hostility toward Jews.*"

        Me pointing out that Israel are occupying land that they've encroached upon, and killed Palestinians in the process, does not come under this. Why? Because it's happened. I'm not in to lying, I'm not in to ignoring the truth. That is what Israel are doing, and it's their Government that are doing it.

        *source: Dictionary.com

        1. Smooth Newt Silver badge
          WTF?

          "Great. Now the register is infected by anti-semites."

          Since the Church of England is the established church in England, by Act of Parliament, does criticizing the British Government make me anti-Christian?

      3. FlamingDeath Silver badge

        Gr8 B8 M8 I R8 8/8

    2. MrRimmerSIR!

      @wolfestone

      So it's OK to kill a 13 year old girl sleeping in her bed because you feel unjustly treated? Was she responsible for the state of the world? Is it also OK to rape a random stranger because you can't get a girlfriend? Think about it.

      As for FB, I'm sure the double standard in removing inciting posts is nothing to do with that part of the company being in an office based in Pakistan.

      Looks like someone tested the theory here:

      http://www.algemeiner.com/2016/06/15/sting-operation-reveals-facebooks-double-community-standards-in-relation-to-pro-israel-posts/

      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        Re: @wolfestone

        Of course I don't. But do you think it's absolutely fine to bomb the shit out of the homes of 13 year old Palestinian kids who didn't even know about that girl?

        Is it OK for a country to push people in to smaller and smaller "camps" to increase it's population?

        Is it OK for a country's water supplier to cut off water to those people with no warning?

        Is it OK for a country to encroach upon land that doesn't belong to it?

        Is it OK for a country to block (or try to) the recognition of it's neighbour in the eyes of the UN?

        Is it OK for a country to use severe force against population that isn't just or like-for-like, to only then escape sanctions because of the single veto held by America?

        I grew up in an Irish family where my family for years lived in the west of Ireland, and it was the place where Oliver Cromwell sent the rebels proclaiming "Go to hell or go to Connaught". Those families would be pushed in to an acre of land which would be shared with 4, 5, 6+ other families who were never rich enough to pay the rent the foreign (mostly Scottish) landowners. Those families suffered during the famine, and suffered more because Britain didn't want them so they didn't help them.

        My great-grandfathers and uncles fought for freedom in 1916 and against the Black and Tans in 1921. They fought and died for their country because it was ruled by foreign land who a) had no right to the country and b) didn't want them in it.

        My Dad came to the UK as an economic refugee (you would call them now) and worked from the day he was 17 until the day he died in Birmingham at the age of 72 from Asbestosis in this country. All the time during the IRA's bombings in the UK, an Irishman in Britain wasn't wanted. Wasn't liked. Wasn't trusted. "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish".

        My Dad didn't do anything to the UK other than work on Spaghetti Junction, the Childrens Hospital, Villa Park, thousands of homes across the West Midlands. But he was spat at, beaten up etc by British people who saw him as evil because of what a small group of people did without his consent.

        So don't you dare use the life of a 13 year old girl as justification for the bombing of children in Palestine in response to the actions of a group of people those children don't even know. Don't you dare use the life of a 13 year old girl as a way to make someone guilty for critising your country. Don't you dare.

        1. MrRimmerSIR!

          Re: @wolfestone

          No point rerunning all those arguments but do me a favour, if you're going to make stuff up, at least don't do it where you can be contradicted.

          Was it this lie you were referring to? http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/abbas-retracts-rabbis-water-poisoning-comment-160625132534138.html

          Or this one?

          http://iphonegram.xyz/news/Another-anti-Israel-water-libel:-The-supposed-Ramadan-water-cut-off

          You see, as much as you want to demonise Israel, it is not the British Empire so don't start transferring your hatred of one country to the actions of another.

          *I* am not the one using the murder of a 13 year old girl for political point scoring. Perhaps you should take that up with the PA who have treated the murderer as a martyr, and now his family will be getting a nice little stipend for his efforts. *THAT* is sick.

          1. wolfetone Silver badge

            Re: @wolfestone

            No actually, the "lie" (which it isn't) was from this article:

            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/ramadan-2016-israel-water-west-bank-cuts-off-a7082826.html

            What hatred do I have for a country I live and work in? That I pay taxes to and will be marrying an English woman?

            None.

            My hatred is reserved for people like you who do use the lives of 13 year olds to legitimise a country's actions. You are the one who brought it up. I certaintly didn't. And regardless of whether we're talking of the British Empire or Israel the case is the same: One country encroaching on to another and pushing it's people out.

            You are using the murder of a 13 year old for point scoring, that is sick. I don't care who you then say "Oh well such a such a person said X about Y" to legitimise your example. It's wrong.

            1. MrRimmerSIR!

              Re: @wolfestone

              Seriously? You haven't even read any of the links I posted. Read them. The water cut off was due to fractured pipes because the PA did not maintain them. It's not just Palestinians who have been suffering water shortages in that area. It's really not a great big conspiracy. The article in the Indy was WRONG. Open you eyes and reach out from the echo chamber of like-minded induhviduals.

              As for murdering innocent people,again read the article. FB is being blind to what is being posted on their site. The murderer of that 13 year old amongst others have been using FB to plan and encourage each other to commit such acts and even when such posts have been reported they have not been taken down. There is a double standard in how FB handles such cases. THAT IS THE POINT.

    3. Olius

      This latest news could be the next phase in their campaign to have Facebook automatically remove anti-Israel posts:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36702897

      "Justice minister Ayelet Shaked wants social media companies to pre-emptively remove content which Israel considers to be a security threat."

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    An Israeli with chip on his shoulder...

    ...looking for someone else to blame.

    That makes a change.

  4. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    Facebook is intended to be that monster

    "Social" brings out the worst and the most "antisocial" in a part of the human population. Quite a few people will manifest the worst parts of the human nature solely because others are watching. Doubly so because of the medium provides some degree of separation and anonymity.

    Rather unsurprisingly political organizations which need that antisocial part of humanity thrive in the resulting stinky bog. Social stinky bog.

  5. Nick Kew
    Big Brother

    The UK was there first

    ... we blamed Facebook back in 2014. A high-profile case to coincide with Mrs May's 1984 surveillance bill.

    I recollect blogging about it at the time.

  6. OviB

    And you have one minute to believe? This is for reinforcing fools trust in FB. They are good partners actually but denying helps their business.

  7. Crisp

    If those are public posts...

    Then surely Israel's Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan can check them themselves?

    1. MrRimmerSIR!

      Re: If those are public posts...

      ...and then, what? If they are reported to FB but FB refuse to take them down what can be done about it?

      1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge
        Stop

        Re: If those are public posts...

        And who gets to determine what speech is valid, hmm? Israel, guilty of a huge number of human rights violations and war crimes? Palestine who are guilty of same? Saudi Arabia? Iran? Sudan? Albania? Russia? China? How about the DRC?

        Maybe the power should rest in the civil service of various nations? Because it would never be used to shut down dissenting voices around elections, would it? Or to prevent protestors from organizing? To prevent the dissemination of information that might be embarrassing to someone in power?

        Or maybe you can use it to "mark" people and put them on some kind of "list" for follow up later. This person over here said the wrong things. That one dated the wrong kind of person. This one there use a recreational drug.

        Do you honestly think that the social progress of the past 100 years would have occurred if nations had the ability to stop dissenting groups from communicating, organizing and coordinating efforts? Would colored people have rights in America? How about homosexuals in the UK? Would women still be second class citizens, or even have rights at all?

        Would I have a neighborhood of thousands of wonderful Syrian, Palestinian, Israeli, Polish, Ukrainian, German, Dutch, French, Chinese, Somali, Nigerian and Irish people, or would these people have died or been turned away long before they reached Canada's shores? These people are my friends. They are friends of one another. We have built a shared life together and the loss of any of us would greatly diminish the whole.

        Many of these people are here only because they - or their parents, like for example, my father - escaped from a really bad situation. There were able to escape only because they could avoid government detection. And yes - absolutely yes - that straight up requires the ability to communicate and coordinate away from the watchful eyes of governments.

        So, you know what? Fuck you. Fuck you for caring more about your nationalism and your xenophobia than my life and the lives of people I love.

        Yes, people will use technology - any technology - to do bad things. But they will also use that very same technology to do good things. History has shown over and over and over again that with very few exceptions (usually weapons), the positive uses of new technologies vastly outstrip the negatives.

        If you want to stop bad shit happening in your country stop electing hard right nationalistic xenophobic nutjobs and start working together to heal the wounds with other groups. Help build a world where everyone has a place and remove desperation as a tool that can be used by the crazed to radicalize the marginalized.

        Security is found by teaching the value of peace, not through fear, violence and the end of a gun. When you and yours have learned that maybe - just maybe - you'll be ready to be part of a body that decides what is and isn't okay to print.

        Cheers.

        1. MrRimmerSIR!

          Re: If those are public posts...

          No no no no no! Again, please read the link. Facebook has been applying its own criteria differently depending upon who the author of the page is. Not about censorship but fairness. s I wrote above, a organisation did a test whereby they set up two facebook pages, one attacking Israel and one attacking Palestinians. Same words, same graphics but with different target. They then complained to facebook using the appropriate channels about both pages. The one attacking Israel was not taken down but the other one was. This is not the first and only example. Either apply the guidelines fairly or apply none. Simples.

  8. RJChurchill

    The fallacy of logic....or at least of flawed logic

    I think it's the fault of phone companies, the post office and my teachers for teaching me to read and write!

    Blame all the phone companies! After all, it makes it easier for bad guys who can call each other up!

    Historically lots of bad stuff has been facilitated by mail, we ought to ban it!

    In fact, by teaching people to read and write we give the tools the bad people need to do bad things to us.

    In fact the only solution is for the world to commit suicide soas no bad people are left to do bad things.

    Mr Rimmer....Sir... I'm not saying you ARE a troll...but I hear many many people saying you are. I had to google your name or at least one who performs Rimming. I can see why you are so full of it, say...are your eyes brown?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Learn to read maybe ?

      More likely a Red Dwarf Fan....

      In this case he'd be the one addressing the smeghead, not the smeghead himself.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

  9. MrRimmerSIR!

    Re: The fallacy of logic....or at least of flawed logic

    @RJChurchill: LOL, indeed you have just proved the point that a little knowledge is dangerous and filling in the gaps with made up stuff doesn't lead to the right answer.

    Sure, call me a troll if it makes you feel better but that doesn't change the facts. I'd rather debate the veracity of the points under discussion. You know, reasoned debate where the other person's points are thought about (and the links read) and analysed then a counter argument made as appropriate. With links. Give it a try, go on.

    Smeeeeeee ;)

  10. lukewarmdog

    If they're really so bothered.. Ban Facebook. Invent their own monitored replacement like China.

    Otherwise just blowing hot air.

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