'Leave EU means...' WHAT?! Britons ask Google after results declared Woke up with a nagging feeling you may have done something last night you shouldn’t? You aren’t alone, it seems. Following reports of Brexiters regretting their vote to take the UK out of the European Union, Google has revealed a hunt for online answers about the EU and what it meant exactly to leave assaulted its search …
I heard someone say they would vote to leave because a pregnant foreign woman got seen at the doctors surgery before they did and that once the UK left the EU these things wouldn't happen anymore. If nothing else we've found out that most of the country is a bit touched in the head.
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>> "half the country has a below-average IQ"
And it's not just IQ, either! It's everything!!
It's extremely frustrating, this. No matter what one does to better things -- education, welfare, etc. No matter what efforts are taken, it still always seems that half the population remains below average.
I'm telling you: the system is rigged...
"Actually, half the country has a below-MEDIAN IQ. #math"
this would only matter if the distribution of numeric IQ values is uneven. In a large enough sample, that's unlikely.
Interestingly enough, to someone at a near-genius level (or higher - average Reg reader probably), EVERYBODY ELSE (who is NOT significantly above average/median) appears "about the same as one another".
/me leaves flowers for Algernon. Poor Algernon. he was a *really* smart mouse. Too bad the 'other mice' rejected him [that's a metaphor, yeah]. If he were a dumb mouse, they'd have still rejected him, but would've felt sorry about it later. Equally 'out of touch' on both ends of the intelligence spectrum.
"Actually, half the country has a below-MEDIAN IQ. #math"
Actually, IQ has a symmetrical normal distribution with a mean of 100 and a standard deviaton of 15. Always. In every population. because that's how it is defined. As with all such distributions, the median is equal to the mean. (And to the mode, for that matter.)
# psychology
PS: learn how to spell "maths".
"What's worse, half the country has a below-average IQ!"
I've long maintained that right to vote should be subject TO TAKING A FUCKING EXAM. You know, to prove that you have any idea of what's actually what. Sadly, so far, no "democracies" seem to be interested in the concept... :(
"I've long maintained that right to vote should be subject TO TAKING A FUCKING EXAM. You know, to prove that you have any idea of what's actually what. Sadly, so far, no "democracies" seem to be interested in the concept... :("
Whilst it's wonderful to imagine that this could improve the system, what would in fact happen would be that the people in charge of examinations would exercise their control to manipulate the voting demographics. In spite of feeling a mixture of anger, pity, contempt, and loathing at the people who voted to leave, to do this would fundamentally compromise the integrity of our democracy. It is thoroughly and entirely wrong, just as limiting parenthood on the basis of IQ is.
Half the UK is below the median IQ for the UK. I've read that globally, the "average" IQ has been steadily declining, and is now below the established "average." I blame technology for short circuiting natural selection.
The UK are not alone. The Brexit phenomenon is in play in the US, chez les Trump supporters. Hopefully Brexit will be a wake-up call for the US and the electorate will realize that "Holy ----! We could wind up with the village idiot as President."
I still maintain that Cameron is a stupid dick for believing he could pull through without the votes from 16-17 year olds, I don't know how many 16-17 year olds there are but if the same % went remain as 18-24's the result may have been a bit different. Didn't want to do it because of cost? Cost him his job that did, what is he, middle management?
/edit - whilst I'm here.......
never mind me edit, found an article.
"without the votes from 16-17 year olds"
Maybe because they might also demand the right to be able to drive a car, buy a drink, or fags, or open a bank account or get a tattoo or make a will or take a selfie of their own arse or or.....
In the framework of what we trust 16,17 years olds with giving them a vote is ridiculous, only suggested by politicians desperate to try to cover up the huge apathy most of the electorate show towards them.
There was no real reason the young should have voted more to remain than leave, you think their parents and grand parents want the worst for them? They are just more naive with a different kind of ignorance.
"Maybe because they might also demand the right to be able to drive a car, buy a drink, or fags, or open a bank account or get a tattoo or make a will or take a selfie of their own arse or or.....
In the framework of what we trust 16,17 years olds with giving them a vote is ridiculous, only suggested by politicians desperate to try to cover up the huge apathy most of the electorate show towards them."
16 & 17 year olds had a vote in the 2014 Scottish independence referendum and anarchy didn't ensue .. maybe because they could already do some of the things you list (drive a car, open a bank account).
C'mon, 16/7 year olds can get laid, get married, join the army, pay income tax, change their name etc. (at 16 can ride a moped, 17 125/car), and in 2 years time when we leave the EU the 16 year olds who were denied a vote will be 18 years old, is it really fair they were not allowed a vote on an irreversible decision which will affect them for the next 60+ years of their life?
There are around 4m 15-19 year olds, so lets say 2m 16-18 year olds, sounds fair, reasonable? If we go for a high turn out of 80%, thats 1.6m voters, they are more likely to vote remain, lets go with 80% again (might be higher), that's 1,280,000 "Remain" votes, 16,141,241 + 1,280,000 = 17,421,241, vote Remain wins by 10,499 votes (assuming 2m voters and 80% turnout/remain).
I'm seriously concerned how it is being portrayed that the youth voted remain and the older generation voted leave.
How exactly is this known and how was it known immediately after the result? Why is it that the news is sill pushing this idea?
Let me explain, we all know how the vote is done you can watch them on the TV, ballots are sorted into piles then those piles are added to the tally and the result is declared. To know which age range voted for what you would have had to record every voter ID on the ballot then collate them for the whole country.
Impossible given the time scales.
Unless someone wants to tell me how the BBC could give exact % immediately after the result and polls don't count as it being pushed as fact, plus the polls were wrong in the first place.
Okay, normally we have exit polls - that's people collecting volunteered data at exit of the polling station. This then gives a national sample and reasonable results.
This time there were no exit polls (was looking for them and surprised they weren't there) so some groups went out onto the streets and did a poll there. This netted the figures people quote - that 62% of the 18-24's who voted, voted in (or 72% according to another poll), but the numbers sampled are low.
In the one case, 1,600(ish) people were polled and only those who were willing to answer were counted towards either vote. I can't remember if it was 1,900 or 19,000 for the other poll - the number was given, but it was (very) small print. Neither sets of figures seemed to add up, though, so I doubt they were really accurate or representative of how people did vote. For example, a straw poll here at work had more 'Out' votes from the younger workers and 'In' votes from the older, but that was an incredibly small sample size.
If you go by the figures from polls into who voted what, only 25% of the 18-24yr olds voted.
The polls show that older people voted more than younger people, and younger people voted in more than older people. So sure, the 16-17 yr olds might vote more favourably to remain, but they'd do so in smaller numbers.
That's if you believe the polls and if you think the trends would continue. More likely they'd vote 'out' in greater numbers as it's the rebel thing to do, and they're still at the tail end of the 'rebel' years. They wouldn't have to deal with the fallout until it's mostly sorted (in their view). But that's just the flip side spin.
Having lead us up the strait of Messina to the waters directly between Scylla and Charybdis, our brave captain declared "It's all the fault of the helmsman!" and promptly abandoned ship as the rest of us were drawn into the maelstrom.
It's not just Cameron though. The whole bloody government should be tried for treason for putting the country in harms way like this.
Some twat called Adam (BBC News) voted to leave but was shocked that the PM resigned and we are on the way out of the EU. He somehow thought his vote would not count. Why give adult decisions to idiots like him who don't understand how voting works?
Two people at work have literally given similar answers, you know how you are supposed to be polite to people at work, it was hard.
I could except if they voted leave (I was remain) for reasons thats democracy after all, but because they are fuckwits, and now they are having second thoughts, one even said I should have looked into it before voting, I find it somewhat unforgiveable.
Democracy assumes an informed electorate. Informed before voting, so yes, plenty of absolute fuckwits who realised what they are too late.
We ended up with a grossly misinformed electorate unwilling or unable to apply any level of critical thinking to the bullshit being peddled. Hardly surprising with people making a profession of bullshitting them.
"with our first past the post electoral system it is quite possible this was the first time he cast a vote which did count."
With our first past the post system votes count, otherwise nobody would get past the post. What do you think all those people are doing in Town Halls on election nights?
"Now UKIP have achieved redundancy maybe they could switch to campaigning for effective proportional representation."
No chance. We already had a referendum on that, and it demonstrated that a clear majority of voters (58%) don't give a shit what the electoral system is.
"No chance. We already had a referendum on that, and it demonstrated that a clear majority of voters (58%) don't give a shit what the electoral system is."
We had a referendum on a shit form of PR which was barely worth having. I voted for but if it had been raining I probably wouldn't have bothered.
I want PR where 3.88 million UKIP votes get 2.8 times more MPs than 1.45 million SNP votes, not 56 times less.
Something like doubling the size of constituencies so halving the number of constituency based MPs and adding 300 odd party MPs elected to ensure the proportion of MPs from each party reflect the kingdom wide proportion of votes for that party.
I think that was Cameron's whole plan: To feed the public FUD to scare us into voting into staying.
The problem was: some were not taking any notice as they already had grounds to want out (some farmers, most fishermen, some businesses). Then you have those who were scared into NOT voting and you start to get a shift in the outcome. With everyone else struggling to understand what was going on, anarchy ruled over common sense and we get the chaos vote.
Had Cameron a) not sided with one or the other side (advisable as he'd offered the referendum - and by siding with 'In' he was effectively declaring he wouldn't support those wanting to leave the EU') and b) pushed for an informed referendum, the outcome could have been decidedly different. But before you think it would have resulted in an 'In' vote: That is what we don't know as the informed referendum never happened.
He's not alone. Farage has withdrawn his claim that we would have an extra £350m a week to spend on the NHS, so he didn't expect to win. Boris didn't either as he wants to wait until 2020 to start the process of leaving. Cameron didn't expect to lose as there would have been no referendum but for him.
And the Kippers were getting their excuses in early with the fantasy that the spooks would tamper with all ballot papers filled in by pencil.
It has all the signs of a mass protest vote that went wrong.
Will hardly be affected and that was what many people thought they were voting about. UK controls their OWN immigration apart from from free movement of EU Citizens. Irish people won't be affected and most other EU people won't much be affected if UK wants to trade. The issue wasn't EU people anyway.
@John Presland - "Dip in. There's some good stuff there. Try Krakowska sausage and Bryndza cheese."
I would offer my vote for the many large sausages that are fantastic on a BBQ, Keilbasa my favourite and the tray deserts are fantastic.
An aside - These were intorduced to me at a barbeque by a Polish friend and her Scottish boyfriend who had been living here for well over a decade, without her family (you know taking our working man's accountancy jobs ). It's something I love about living in modern Britian and I fear that this is something we are going to lose. Certainly I have many friends who are terrified that they will have to get married or fight to apply for a passport simply to cary on living and working here as before.
"The issue wasn't EU people anyway."
According to BREXIT government employment minister Priti Patel the EU migrants were the wrong nationality. She wants them reduced in favour of increasing migration from the Indian subcontinent.
The Leave campaign really was a mix of strange, and possibly incompatible, bed fellows. It will be interesting how Ian Duncan Smith and Gove square their newly declared compassion for the disadvantaged with the next cabinet's new "cut more" members.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/brexit-promises-massive-boost-to-india-uk-relations-minister-priti-patel/story-UaYX6DMnHxUW2QipS537cK.html
No, petrol will be cheaper, the Leave campaign promised to remove VAT from fuel.
Sorry... won't happen. One of the Cardinal Rules of Government: There's no such thing as a temporary tax and no such thing as a tax being removed or rolled back. If removal or rollback is forced, a new tax at a higher rate must be instituted immediately.
@agurney - "No, petrol will be cheaper, the Leave campaign promised to remove VAT from fuel."(Emphasis mine.)
Oh god, you're one of the people that actually believe a promise made by Vote Leave.
You're probably also expecting the NHS to get £350M per week more - you might want to see what they said after the result.
The fuel price rise is gouging, plain and simple. No way does the exchange rate feed through that fast to the pump.
Further, the price of oil slumped today:
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Oil-Tumbles-As-Britain-Votes-Out.html
So why should fuel at the pump rise?
"The fuel in the pumps now, that you are buying now, has taken between 4 and 12 weeks from its purchase time to reach those pumps."
But the replacement stock for what you buy now has to be purchased now. As if that made any difference to an oil company's chance of making a profit.
It does. But if I buy a thing now for £1 and sell it for £2 next week, the fact that next week the next one will cost me £1.10 to buy doesn't mean that selling price of the first one I bought will rise.
The selling price of the first thing I bought is not affected buy the buying price of the second.
The selling price of the first thing I bought is not affected buy the buying price of the second.
It is if it's fungible ;)
A litre of petrol bought a year ago and stored in a can is worth the same as a litre of petrol just drawn from a pump. It takes several years for petrol to go off and until that happens a litre of petrol costs what a litre of petrol costs regardless of where it comes from.
You could be honest and have the price vary minute by minute but capitalism isn't a fundamentally honest economic system. Prices tend to go up faster than they tend to go down.
"It takes several years for petrol to go off"
In the 70s during the loyalist (sic) strikes in N Ireland a colleague stockpiled petrol for a relatively short period - maybe weeks, months at most & found that he couldn't start the car on it. Some of the lighter fractions had evaporated.
Upvoted for use of the word 'fungible
A learnt the word from a Dilbert cartoon. Mind you I've learnt so much from Dilbert over the years. This is my favourite cartoon :).
"The selling price of the first thing I bought is not affected buy the buying price of the second."
Please tell me you didn't vote..
In your home it might work like that.
In a business the selling price is directly related to the cost of replenishing the stock.
In fact, the value of the stock is directly related to the market value of the product, so why would you sell it at a lower price?
" the price of oil slumped today"
stocks in general slumped. it's a good time to buy. If I had $ to invest in pound-sterling I'd do it. Expect fluctuations for a week, then "about like it was". Just my 'from across the pond' opinion.
When a small fraction rage-sells, another fraction panics, and you see "that". It'll adjust back.
Now.
The pound is down against the dollar, which immediately raises the cost of oil.
The price of fuel on the forecourt will rise within days, and everything else will follow soon after - how long depend on the hedging.
Gas will follow suit, as will electricity - as a lot of that is gas.
And how does anybody know if it is those voting for leave that are searching this? The younger generations whom use the Internet more were the ones who mainly voted to remain.
But even if it is true, then all it means is people are taking an interest in what people are now saying in the face of an elected decision in regards to the events of today. People might not have expected for example that David Cameron may stand down. This article seems to be more confirmation bias than actual information.
"
By "younger generations", I presume you mean anybody under 55?
"
I am a grandfather of 60+ who was using the Internet before my eldest child was born (albeit without the assistance of Google). I think people have a very outdated idea of how "new-fangled" the Internet is.
"I do believe it was we over 55s who largely created this internet thingy..."
Yeeeees, and surely that's why it's so fucking hard to explain to any of you why one doesn't need to Google "Facebook" to fucking go to "facebook.com"...
@gv,
more like under 30s in this context, which is younger than myself. I am not saying older generations don't use the Internet, only that younger generations use it on average more. And yes, there is always exceptions, most people under 30 won't use the Internet as much as I do, still most people my age won't use the Internet as much as those in their late teens do who stay connected via social networks, face photos/selfies/etc and use dating apps. The Internet is now much more mobile than it ever use to be. And no, these numbers are not backed by statistics, so I could be wrong, it's assumption, anecdotal, etc. I know.
@Cynic_999
The Internet goes back to around the late 1960s, didn't need google to get that one. Some protocols are older than I am, still I remember growing up in the early 1990s where many adults still did not regularly use the Internet. Younger generations have much more easy with accessibility to the Internet and without the limitations that I had in my own childhood.
@dajames
Sorry, got Dyspraxia and no edit function.
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Quite so. It seems just as likely that its [hmm, lets see how many downvotes I can get here] the population of sheeple who were blindly voting how their lords and masters and executive class were telling them who have now decided its time to search out some more information...
In most elections and referendums, the politicians tell outrageous lies, wait a year or two to make it look as if they were trying to fulfill their promises and then say "Sorry ladies and gentlemen, we can't do what you wanted after all". And everyone tuts, and sighs, and life goes on.
In this case, the politicians (particularly those on the 'Leave' side) told outrageous lies and then didn't even have the decency to make it look like they were going to try to come through on them. Instead, as soon as they'd won, they had the gall to call their previous assurances 'a mistake'. Which is, quite frankly, taking the piss.
So what have we voted for? Well, we certainly haven't voted for decreased immigration and more money for the NHS. But, lucky us, we have got the runners up prize of a plummeting pound, a massive brain drain (freeing up more houses for imbeciles, coffin dodgers and racists), loss of our AAA rating, increased inconvenience in travelling to civilisation (the EU), the support of Donald Trump (nuff sed) and the undying gratitude of an unelected and unaccountable frog faced alcoholic.
...talking of glib porkies, I noticed a Mirror article where the boris bus says £50M on the side
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/3-brexit-promises-campaigners-wriggled-8271762
whereas the BBC story showing the apparently same bus:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36574526
...says £350M.
Did they change the claim halfway through, or are we being treated to a bit of 1984-style revisionism here?
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Or so it would seem. Fucking hilarious outcome, and even funnier because of articles just like this one; let's all jump off the cliff! Great! *pulls out "smart"phone while in free-fall to look up what a cliff is...* *splat*
Good luck with that! Sure, the real funny won't happen for a few years, but let's all stand around and watch anyway!
*rushes to search.yahoo.com to look up what bree exit means...*
I did a google search, though I didn't get to vote.
I searched "Is the Brexit vote binding" and there was an article a few days before the vote, about how this was barely mentioned in the campaigns.
So my prediction is there will be political fight in the Tories, a great deal of argument with the Europeans, but it is possible the Brexit will be reversed by a General election.
Anyone else notice the time the UK was in the EU coincided with the end of Monty Python?
OK, back to molecular stuff...
P.
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the negotiation process you're describing (with EP approval) is what happens after notification to withdraw. If negotiations fail, then we just leave after two years with no deal at all - the treaties cease to apply, and we fall back to general WTO rules on trade etc, no agreement on visa-free travel, no nothing.
I'm not sure how it breaks down (by country) but one of the trending searches on Google all day has been "What it is the EU?". Can people really be that ignorant?
All I can do is shake my head and wonder if after the election here in the States we'll see one trending for "Who is Trump?" or "Who is Hillary?" (depending on who wins).
Most of these are EU institutions. Can you spot the one ones that aren't and the duplicates without checking Wikipedia?
European Parliament, European Council, Council of the European Union, European Commission, European Court of Human Rights, Court of Justice of the European Union, General Court, European Union Civil Service Tribunal, European Economic Area, European Free Trade Association, European Central Bank and Court of Auditors.
I voted remain, and since Friday morning I have done a large number of Europe related searches to understand how much damage the Brexits have landed us in. The stereotype Brexit does not know how to search the web, but I assume Cove, Johnson and Farage are busy looking for someone who can search the web for an EU exit plan because clearly they never had one.
"but it is possible the Brexit will be reversed by a General election."
That possibility occurred to me. At the very least we now ought to have a general election. Admittedly there's current legislation saying we can't but, given the will, that could go through Commons & Lords in a single day.
"Quick to dismiss the naysayers as wealthy, unaccountable elites with their own vested interests talking down Britain... But the fact the public discounted so readily the advice of experts points to something more than just a revolt against the establishment. It suggested far more people felt left behind and untouched by the economic benefits of five decades of EU involvement being trumpeted. "
===============================================
Eight reasons Leave won the UK's referendum on the EU - BBC News
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36574526
===============================================
~ In latter days greedy bank CEO's and other corporate kings, along with rich London homeowners were wheeled out to defend the 'Remain' camp... I mean c'mon...???
~ Anyway the UK was never part of the Euro currency, never part of Schengen. It's got sea borders, and doesn't even share a common language with its other Euro partners.
~ But its the mother of all hangovers for the Republic-Of-Ireland... And it really f@cks Northern Ireland too, unless they and Scotland opt to split off and become full EU members...
It would be a really good motivator to whomever is in power in our government now or in the future and being a very close outcome that we're getting a tad pissed orrrfff and would like to see some changes with regard to the EU shambles, well moron got nothing the last attempt and maybe that’s what tipped the balance. LOSER, BIG TIME, SO, SO BIG, please fade into obscurity you EUless w*****
So I want British,Scottish,Welsh lamb,beef what the feck ever and whatever we can grow or make here, a big chuffing label in every store and supermarket saying where something comes from and no need to scrutinize the label for that info.
I remember the foreign attitudes to British beef when the BSE problem arose and how they milked it for all it was worth, DEFRA lowering the offal boiling temps and other changes to animal feed production just to save the big corporations a FOOKING penny per sack.
The Frogs can go and **** themselves sideways and if the Welsh,Scots,NI still want in then let them go their own way!
Free prescriptions and don't get me started on university fees, just need a leader with a head for business, not just his own and a pair of balls!
Life should be a hoot with Wurzel running the show, of course it may be that free prescriptions are ' A bit difficult to do at the moment' and 'We are looking at University fees' but at least everybody should get a free British grown Turnip.
If Boris gets the leadership of the Tories he could stand an excellent chance to run a coalition after the next election with the other Leave clown, Nigel Farage ( always reminds me of Oswald Mosely).
Then it would be time for a new Remain or Leave decision this time for living in Britain.
I will be interested to see just how much better off Brits are in 5 years and 10 years.
My feeling is that rather than a referendum what the UK needed was ANY politician left or Right who had a pair and would actually wear them while talking to Brussels, the last one to do that was a woman and even she didn't do enough.
The UK is the 2nd biggest economy in Europe and has consistently failed to throw it's weight about in it's own favour and is now well on the way to never having the oppurtunity.
As far as I can tell the only good thing about the Brexit vote is that now Camoron is on his way, on the other hand though, does that mean Terrible Terry will be jackbooting around Number 10 until the next election.
If she is then the Leavers will reap what they have sown.
>don't get me started on university fees,
If you don't want to spend 9grand/year studying leisure center management at the university of Scunthorpe you could always go and study automotive engineering at the home of Porsche/BMW/Mercedes for free.
Or at least you could until yesterday...
London voted remain. Although NI as a whole voted remain, the map is a bit patchy, and I would prefer to leave interpreting it to someone who understands why.
So post Brexit, England and Wales are the new UK without London, Scotland or Gibraltar. Northern Ireland is split in two.
"So post Brexit, England and Wales are the new UK without London, Scotland or Gibraltar. Northern Ireland is split in two."
Is Ireland going to continue subdividing until it reaches the point where an entire unit agrees with itself ? And is that unit one individual person?
"don't get me started on university fees"
I find 2 grand a year to be pretty good university fees for world leading institutes teaching in English.
Oh, we're talking about English universities.... yeah, those fees are bollocks for what you get.
Quick students, get thee to Holland and Germany, and get married. Even a divorce will cost you less than the difference of 3 years fees :)
Be careful what you wish for ...
You get what you deserve.
If it is ok for the UK to leave the EU, then obviously it is ok for Scotland to leave the UK. If i were Scottish (actually thinking of buying a kilt and one those hats wiv ginger hair everywhere) then i'd be demanding a wall at the border and that the sassenachs pay for it.
If i were french i'd be ripping up the calais agreement and opening the gates.
If i were italian or greek i'd be arranging trainloads of refugees direct to calais.
If i were spanish i'd be blockading gibralter.
If i were argentinian i'd be looking on the top shelf for those dusty falklands maps.
Always thought the majority of the english were stupid cunts, yesterday proved it.
Gibraltar had crossed my mind. No way they could cope with an actual border crossing - imagine commuting to work every day through full customs - and they voted to remain at something over 90%. So, yes, the Rock will join Spain fairly soon.
Not sure why the Italians or Greeks should be sending refugees to Calais. How long before the French suggest that we really ought to sort it all out in England? You know, inside our border.
The Scots are quite sensible compared to us English so I suspect the outcome of a second vote for an independent Scotland, if held, will depend on the price of oil and the view of the viability of a smallish country.
Now, will the yanks want nuclear weapons in Holyloch - billeted on another country so to speak?
Multiple VAT/Purchase tax rates spring to mind as well. Could be casual work for some?
"Now, will the yanks want nuclear weapons in Holyloch - billeted on another country so to speak?"
The Scots already said that an independent Scotland won't have nuclear weapons on it's territory. I assume that means that if they do vote for independence in the next few years (likely IMHO) and choose to join the EU, they won't be joining NATO.
'If i were french i'd be ripping up the calais agreement and opening the gates.
If i were italian or greek i'd be arranging trainloads of refugees direct to calais.
If i were spanish i'd be blockading gibralter.
If i were argentinian i'd be looking on the top shelf for those dusty falklands maps.
Always thought the majority of the english were stupid cunts, yesterday proved it.'
Well firstly you dumb fooking coward, England and the other countries you mentioned have a Capital letter at the beginning so you're a stupid C*** as well and up yours prick!
To the other comments, tell them to bring it on and the rest of Europe has been helping migrants get to the UK for years you totalally brain dead tosser!
According to the BBC: "the UK will not leave immediately. The UK is still a member of the EU and will probably remain so for several years"
What prevents the UK to hold this very same referendum again in a year or so? (when the kids that narrowly lost the chance to vote are of legal age)
I ask because, In the wake of this decision, the idea of a new referendum for Scottish independence is being mused again or so I read in the BBC. I don't get how many "tries" are allowed...
Honest question, basically El Reg and the BBC are my only sources of knowledge about the UK. I am looking at the game from way out.
I think you will find that the instigator of the petition, one William Oliver Healey, was actually in favour of a Brexit.
To quote the author: William Oliver Healey:-
"I am a strategist and one of those strategies has been wrongly hijacked by the remain campaign."
Not much of a strategist if he didn't see that the losing side would be quite annoyed and that that petition could be used by either faction. That just makes it funnier and more likely to be used.
2,412,830 signatures currently
Make that 2,424,951 (just before edit times out)
Yes, I think there is a significant element of that. I suspected it, then my wife mentioned that a few people on farcebook made comments along the lines of "I thought my vote wouldn;t count" and "I was just voting against Cameron". Since then I've seen similar comments in TV news interviews, including on pro-Brexit Murdochs Sky News. One guys comment was "I woke up, saw the result and was in shock, now I'm worried" (this was another leave voter)
Whether it's relevant or significant I shall leave to the various campaigners and their inevitable legal challenges.
As for the petition, it does raise an interesting point. The last Scottish independence referendum had conditions attached based on turnout and minimum percentage of eligible voters who mist vote Yes for a valid result.. Note particularly that world "eligible" used in place of "actual". Since the EU referendum was for a very similar "separation", why were similar conditions not placed on it? I suspect that will be a prime point in any legal challenges.
> what is is the bloody point of having a referendum
In the British constitution, there isn't any. Or, at least, the point certainly isn't to decide the issue on the ballot paper. Parliament is sovereign, and it draws that sovereignty from the Crown, not from the People. Yes, it really is that feudal.
-A.
"The voters voted and the winning side won."
Although it's changing with some countries or provinces, as in Canada, setting fixed election dates, the custom in parliamentary democracies has been for elections to follow a loss in confidence in the government. In minority government situations elections generally follow at less than the usual full term.
In this situation with such a close vote, another vote would not seem out of place. Especially considering the consequences.
Also consider that the population were lied to about what they were voting for. The leave side in particular aren't going to get anything that they were promised and that they voted for. There also seems to be a substantial number of people who only voted that way because they didn't think they would win. Not that the Remain side didn't come up with some outrageous bollocks of their own...I don't think anyone in Europe wants to declare war on us (except possibly the Mayor of Calais, and she has a mighty good reason to be somewhat miffed).
And this vote was never really about Europe anyway...it was a dick-waving contest that got out of hand.
A second go-around might work well for us...the EU would have been given a needed slap with a wet fish and some real reform might be possible. Already the remaining states are looking at each other and saying "well, yes, there does seem to be quite a few broken bits that need looking at". It would be nice (not to mention beneficial) to be a part of the tidying-up process. If we as a nation can do the equivalent of "Oh-ho-honly joking. Now you're all paying attention, here's a list of shit that needs looking at urgently; and here's another list of stuff that we need to work on after that" then it's possible that some real progress could be made. For everybody.
What's going to happen if we leave? Well for one thing, we're going to look like a bunch of bigots to the rest of the world. Because immigration was such a big part of the deal, foreigners are going to assume that if they point to any two Brits, they're going to be pointing at one-and-a-bit racists. It's not necessarily true; but that's the impression people I've talked to seem to be taking away. Secondly people are going to be using us as scapegoats for a long time; jacking up prices on this that and the other; throwing in a new tax or two and blaming us. It might even be true; but it's certainly going to sound credible and I think we're going to be seeing quite a bit of it.. Thirdly our own government are going to be doing that to us too "oh this cost increase/decrease in living standards is entirely due to our withdrawal from the EU and you voted for it, so suck it peons". Anyone who remembers the dry arse-fucking we got during decimalisation is going to be having a sense of deja-vu very shortly, I think.
In almost any other circumstances I would agree with @linicks and go with the majority vote (and I do like the word squinny, which is apparently Portsmouth slang for "whinge"...anywhere else it's usual meaning is "to squint"); but in this particular case the margin is so slim; the issue is so big; and the voters were so misinformed that I really believe that we should reflect for a moment before pushing the accelerator to the floor.
"the EU would have been given a needed slap with a wet fish and some real reform might be possible"
Fine, where should the Dutch pensionfunds send the bill for the ~15 billion euro's they lost in the stockmarket crash? The results of the referendum mean that a lot of people lost a lot of money, either direct or thru their pensionplans etc. The feeling along the other 27 countries is, no second chance, no favours or preferential treatment, and you'd better invoke article 50 quickly, since we're not feeling to patient at the moment, f*ck you very much.
You might get 'no talking to the media before your death penalty' Priti Patel. There were threats about making her home secretary - I assume to scare us into putting up with Theresa May.
The only good thing I can say about the Brexit leadership is that if we lock them in a room until they agree on an exit strategy then we can imprison the survivor for murder.
"The UK Independence Party leader said that he would use his position as head of the UKIP group in the European Parliament – the biggest group of British MEPs – to ensure he had a say over the terms of British breakaway from the EU."
Translation: "We don't want anything further to do with you lot... now can you help me please?"
Sorry let me re-phrase that: If you *intended* to vote Remain then click here:-
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
Leavers might also want to try crashing the website too. Just fill in the form and click on the link they send you. Don't worry, your signature won't be counted.
I've been saying all the way through that it was a terrible idea to have a referendum asking people a question that they're not qualified to answer.
We might as well have a referendum on who should be Andy Murray's coach, or which astronomical body NASA should point the Hubble space telescope at.
This is why we have representative democracy. We pick who we want to represent us, and then they can - we hope - take the time look into all the details and work out the best answer.
So the pound is going down the drain, France is going to bomb Britain with refugees and Spain wants to invade Gibralter.
Worse than any of those things though is the fact that Wurzel is leading a bid to take over the Tory party and Terrible May is going to try and stop him, what's bad about it is that it seems Britains only current choices to help it recover from the result of the dumbest vote ever, are those two.
Frankly I think Jeremy Corbyn would do a better job of running the Conservative Party.
Lucky thing I'm sitting on an island in the Med with a nice bottle of red and a bag of popcorn, Oh and the 1969 Vienna agreement to protect me from this arsery.
'The British pound has suffered its biggest one-day sell off in recent history, as the shock news the the UK is heading out of the European Union sparked panic in the markets.
Sterling suffered a jaw-dropping plunge in the early hours of Friday in London, from $1.50 against the US dollar to just $1.33. It closed at $1.368, after a day to forget for many FX traders.'
As of two days ago.
Seems to me the rest of the world doesn't have a lot of faith in us, except when they want us to help fund them in illegal wars and get our boys killed.
At least Blier and Brown did something good by not adopting the EURO as our national currency, that's one headache we don't need as well and Greece, Spain, Italy have done so well haven’t they?
Every German citizen now owns a second home, It's called Greece.
For all you foreigners on this site as an English man I say that we obviously weren't happy with the EU and in a partnership there has to be some room for compromise, it is entirely the fault of the remaining EURO partners because they were unreasonable toads and if we are going to keep on spending shit loads of money for your products you'll have to get used to different terms, the worm has turned!
What tech's made in the EU zone anyway? If Large retailers like Curry's and other retail outlets cancelled or deferred orders the countries that tech was made in those countries would soon change their tune.
"...with a nice bottle of red and a bag of popcorn..."
Chris G, you're doing it wrong! You should be sitting "with a nice bag of
red (poison) and a bottle of (liquid) popcorn"!
Not an absurd possibility judging from the rate of signatures being received per hour. This defiance of acceptance of the result is something that is not going to go away.
Ok, the referendum was the real event, but the Brexiters have to take on board the fact that they didn't have that much of a majority and that every single step they make is going to be analysed to hell. This is going to interfere greatly with the extrication process. Remember also that very few politicians will have experience of what things were like in Britain prior to the original In Referendum all those years ago. The chances of a screw-up are monumental.
A general election is the only way to put a toe-hold of stability back into the country. Maybe this will be a trigger for the EU to say "Ok, UK, we hear you, let's sit round a table and see how we can continue to work as a team. We realize now that the EU has to change, let's do it together."
Dare I say it, but I think what we are witnessing here is the tail wagging the dog.
Just casually looking through the underlying data there are a couple of interesting stats that immediately stick out. Over 25k signatures from North Korea? And 40k from the Vatican? The population of the Vatican is one hundredth of that in total.
"Not an absurd possibility judging from the rate of signatures being received per hour. This defiance of acceptance of the result is something that is not going to go away."
Utter bollocks. The UK voted. Result.
So if this petition succeeds, then what's the point of any other electoral vote ever? Why bother to vote at all?
Losers are losers.
"The UK voted."
At least some of them appear to have put the pencil in motion without engaging the brain. Now they're discovering that they were actually doing something real - maybe they thought it was the same as a Facebook "like".
The basis of the petition is that a referendum should require a reasonably substantial majority to change the status quo. There's also the point made by another commentator that non-resident UK citizens were denied the vote and yet they are particularly likely to be adversely affected.
"very few politicians will have experience of what things were like in Britain prior to the original In Referendum all those years ago."
True, but now is not then outside the EU. Whoever takes it on is going to have to work things out from first principles in any case. Can anybody see anyone who's up to the job?
I have read all the threads on here.
What don't you people get? The UK had vote on the EU (my first one ever, even being 56 years old) and the LEAVE vote won. That's it. LEAVE won. No matter how much you squinny, LEAVE WON.
So give it a rest.
LEAVE won. England will now be England again, Wales will now be Wales again. I can't speak for the others.
I presume you all had a vote/bothered to vote? If not, tough luck, it's too late now to be a cry baby.
> England will now be England again, Wales will now be Wales again.
What were they last Tuesday?
> The UK had vote on the EU
Yep. That's all it was, a vote. I can't predict the future, but I can state that it doesn't bind Parliament to anything at all. Sorry, but that honest decent Mr Cameron sold you a pup. At least he had the grace to be embarrassed about it.
> I presume you all had a vote
No. Like many other Brits living in Europe, I was denied a vote despite this being a matter of supreme importance to me.
-A.
"No. Like many other Brits living in Europe, I was denied a vote despite this being a matter of supreme importance to me."
So if you are living in Europe (what ever that is) why should _you_ have a vote for the UK to leave/stay in Europe anyway? Obviously you went to work abroad to make more money etc. Oxymoron.
Live in England. Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland - then maybe you could have voted.
"So if you are living in Europe (what ever that is) why should _you_ have a vote for the UK to leave/stay in Europe anyway? Obviously you went to work abroad to make more money etc. Oxymoron.
Live in England. Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland - then maybe you could have voted."
I see.
So non-UK national EU citizens living in the UK should have had a vote?
Or is it whatever disingenuous shite makes your brain stop making like Homer Simpson's?
Portsmouth? Ah. Now I do see.
Forget I asked.
When the flood of Polish and other eastern Europe workers was about to start across Northern Europe, most countries used the option of a 7 year transition period, meaning they could put a quotum on the number of immigrants from those countries. Germany and the Netherlands here used that option, the UK politicians decided/chose not to so. So most of the Polish workers went thru Germany, Belgium, France and the Netherlands, and ended up in the UK. And now I see clips/interviews of people blaming this on the EU.
The most likely result of Brexit is this:
We'll leave the EU, thereby making several overpaid MEPs redundant and no longer having any say in what actually happens in Europe.
We'll sign new trade deals that will contain clauses, such as free trade and free movement. Meaning economically nothing changes. We'll still give £350m a week to the EU for this trade agreement. If we're lucky this will also get us access to EU subsidy funding. Immigration from EU countries will still continue. We'll no longer be able to veto expansion of the EU to countries such as Turkey.
Non-EU immigration will become more difficult to control as we'll now have to process them in Dover rather than Calais.
So nothing really changes except we'll no longer have ANY say in how the EU progresses. That does not look like a victory for Great Britain.
And does anyone else find the whole "Let's make Britain GREAT again" rhetoric disturbing? It has all the connotations of Empire building and 1930's jingoism. Let's face it, a couple of small islands full of sheep farmers and accountants do not make an Empire. No matter how much we might like to think that way we no longer control half the globe and we never will again. Accept we're one of many economic powerhouses on the global scale and we must work together globally, not in isolation as many seem to think we're capable of doing.
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