back to article Microsoft's Windows Phone folly costs it another billion dollars

The cost of Microsoft’s white elephant entry into smartphone manufacturing has gone up by another $1bn. Microsoft is restructuring its smartphone hardware business in a move that will cost 1,850 jobs and $950m. Severance pay will claim $200m of that figure, with 1,350 staff losing their jobs at Microsoft Mobile Oy in Finland …

  1. Version 1.0 Silver badge

    Probably cheaper

    Imagine the amount of money that they could have spent if they had decided to get into the phone business without buying their way in - this is probably cheaper, and they get to keep the best parts of the software and experienced people. That's the way I'd sell it to the board.

    1. tirk

      Re: Probably cheaper

      That would be a great argument if they had ended up with a meaningful cut of the mobile phone market. All they have is a load of ongoing costs and nothing to show for it.

    2. oldcoder

      Re: Probably cheaper

      nope. They were ALREADY in the phone business.

      Microsoft had WP6 doing decently if not spectacularly. Then came the 7/7.5/8 screwup promising upgrades - and not delivering. Then just dropping the customers.

      This is just trying to buy a market again (like they did with Xbox - lost money there too- at about a billion/year for 8 years).

      Just another case of more money than sense.

      1. AMBxx Silver badge

        7/7.5/8 screwup promising upgrades

        You've missed the 8.1/10 upgrade promise. My Lumia 1020 will be gathering dust soon

      2. Mage Silver badge

        Re: Probably cheaper


        Three times, maybe.

        Original Win CE based (Quite high percentage in USA before 2005?)

        Sidekick Danger

        Zune Inspired Windows Phone.

        They destroyed the Desktop product for a market they will now never crack.

      3. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: Probably cheaper

        They have form, having killed Sendo in 2005.

        1. John Sanders

          Re: Probably cheaper

          Sendo is the reason they failed this time, and the reason they will keep failing in the mobile market.

          TL/DR, Those in the know understand.

    3. Mark 85

      Re: Probably cheaper

      It's obviously not about "cheaper" but about the write-offs for tax purposes. Buy the company.... write-off. Wind down products and employees.. write-off. Losses instead of profit in the middle of all this.. write-off. Sell it off at a loss... write-off.

      I'm kinda' wishing (in an evil way) they'd do this with Windows 10.

      1. earplugs

        Re: Probably cheaper

        If Microsoft wrote off Win10 it would just be a zombie.

      2. Chris Evans

        Re: Probably cheaper

        "write-offs for tax purposes" I suspect most of the cost in buying Nokia would have been 'Goodwill' not IPR of fixed assets. In the UK writing off goodwill does not save any tax. I expect the US is the same.

    4. Mikel

      Re: Probably cheaper

      Imagine they had decided to put a man on Mars instead. They could have saved billions.

      1. Mark 85

        Re: Probably cheaper

        Imagine they had decided to put a man on Mars instead. They could have saved billions.

        Except they would probably force a landing on Venus*.

        *Yeah.. I know it's in the opposite direction as Mars.

  2. N2


    That is all.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Extinguish...

      Even the few decent apps have gone bad.. Mix Radio has shut down, and Here Maps / Drive, which I used to use a lot, has gone absolutely balmy. Mine tries to send me on 50km loops to get to destinations 20km away, and the screen will clearly (and correctly) show a left turn while the voice says "turn right".

      It's as if it's a burning platform...

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Extinguish...

        If it's gone absolutely balmy it must be the weather.

        1. Sven Coenye

          Re: Extinguish...


          For those times where you think you know what you want but not how to get there, so you start executing arbitrary turns at random intersections...

          1. asdf

            Re: Extinguish...

            Ballmer has said this unverisal app thing won't work and damn if he didn't make sure under his watch and even after.

      2. Aoyagi Aichou

        Re: Extinguish...

        I'd just like to point out that HERE is not responsible for that "Maps" rubbish that Microsoft came up with.

        1. Anna Logg

          Re: Extinguish...

          ..and given that HERE Maps / Drive + won't be supported on WinMo 10 shortly, my one reason for buying into WinMo platform has disappeared.

      3. Lars Silver badge

        Re: Extinguish...

        "show a left turn while the voice says "turn right". Let me guess it's "turn right" in some other language.

      4. 0laf

        Re: Extinguish...

        Agree, I've a 920 and it's been a good phone. I really liked the Mix radio and I used the nav as an emergency on a few occasions and it worked well enough.

        I liked the tile interface and the phone has always been fast and stable, and unlike my last Samsung it is actually quite good at being a phone.

        But WinPho seems to be the embarrassing deformed child in the MS cellar. They won't kill it but they will slowly starve it to death whilst telling everyone they're looking after it well.

        It was never going to do well in personal hands but there was a lot of adoption of WinPho into government. But again MS seems to have done everything they can to stop that working out well. You can't manage the phones properly unless you're on the latest server versions, MS won't talk to MDM vendors so you need the MS solution plus an other one for you iPads and other devices. No remote password reset. Stupid enforced choices like lock out times, and reminders. MS has a thing against "10min", you can have 5 or 15 but not 10. It's my bloody phone and I might want a 7min reminder.

        Constant reminders to get 'Office for android' when I plug in my WinPho.

        I do wonder if Satya Nadella is actually a plant from Google. If so he's working out well.

    2. asdf

      HP and MS birds of a feather

      >In July 2015, Microsoft announced a $7.6bn adjustment on its Phone hardware business just 15 months after buying Nokia’s mobile phone business for $7.2bn.

      Wow that is some Autonomy like write down sh1t there.

  3. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Surface phone's not going to surface

    Thus endeth Windows 10 Mobile.

    What a waste of time, money, and jobs.

    1. wolfetone Silver badge

      Re: Surface phone's not going to surface

      "What a waste of time, money, and jobs."

      I'm sure Little Johnny had a good christmas though with all the money his Mom/Dad made from working on the project.

  4. Terry 6 Silver badge

    The irony

    They are really nice phones. The OS is pleasant to use. It isn't as costly as Apple devices. It doesn't (or didn't) track everything we do like the GoogleDroid.

    It really does work well with the PCs that most people use.

    It should have done well.

    But Microsoft's inability to move its feet without shooting itself in them has meant that the Windows phone has absolutely no credibility.

    For a start the Windows Phone 8.x ran parallel to the incredibly ( and rightly) unpopular Windows 8.x

    So they couldn't exactly market it as the ideal accompaniment to your PC.

    That probably was what they would have wanted.

    But it would have been like [ was like] branding bottled water as being just like raw sewage.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The irony

      Ironically, in fixing Windows 8 with Windows 10, they have fucked up Windows 8 phone, by making it into Windows 10!

      I don't care about a gazillion fart apps, it has about 99% of what I want and it does some features way better than the others.

      I don't like Android

      I can't afford Apple.

      Windows is a nice interface on the phone and does a lot of stuff very, very well.

    2. Aoyagi Aichou

      Re: The irony

      I'm not sure which "nice phones" you mean, but the newest ones (640, 950, etc) are very medicore in all aspects but the OS, which is... well, unready.

    3. asdf

      Re: The irony

      > It doesn't (or didn't) track everything we do like the GoogleDroid.

      It's coming (assuming the whole thing doesn't get shut down which is also coming) as they are already doing it on the desktop with Win10.

      1. The First Dave

        Re: The irony

        > It doesn't (or didn't) track everything we do like the GoogleDroid.

        It was supposed to, just couldn't make it work in time for release.

    4. Zane

      Re: The irony ???

      Nice phones - not sure how you define that. Seems there are even 34 people here that share your opinion - that's near to 100% of all customers, is it?

      Anyway, I wouldn't even know 34 people who use the WinPhone. I know about two or three. My only experience with the WinPhone was when one of those guys called me - the call got dropped. He called me again on the fixed line.

      I think that's funny.

      Maybe other people call that nice.

      1. Terry 6 Silver badge

        Re: The irony ???

        My only experience with the WinPhone .....


  5. Geronimo!

    Business phone ... anyone?


    Apple: Too expensive, not really compatible in a Windows environment ... and Apple is complete losing interest in business customers.

    Android: If you hadn't had security issues before, Android makes sure you'll have them ... a plenty

    Blackberry: Not really cheap, only manageable with RIMs software and hardly up to today's standards

    So, I thought about moving to Windows Phone.

    And yes (!) for 120 € I got quite a decent phone, does all I need and works very well with my Surface Pro.

    And now this. Are they going to pull the plug completely?

    That would leave us with the 3 options above ...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Business phone ... anyone?

      "Apple: Too expensive, "

      5C is available in 8GB for a tiny amount to business customers.

      At least a comparable amount to a windows phone, plus you can actually get the apps you might need on it.

      Fine for MDM and Email.

      Also much less than €120!

      "not really compatible in a Windows environment"

      Which environment is that? Mine backs up wireless to the PC, restores, and syncs fine.

      By comparison, I can't even play a single mp3 track on my windows phone, as the app "is updating the library" and has been for the last 6 months.

      What do you want it to be compatible with that it's not (iphone that is)

      " ... and Apple is complete losing interest in business customers."

      I don't think the launch of the pro, 6SE and the like bears that out.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Business phone ... anyone?

        An iPhone 5c for "much less than €120"? Apple doesn't sell those anymore, but I'm sure you could get one for that price used - but the guy you replied to was talking about getting a relatively current model for that price. You could argue a Ferrari costs less than a Honda, if you buy one after it has hit a truck head on at 100 mph :)

        I do agree that Apple's enterprise support is if anything getting better - not that this is a high bar for Apple who traditionally hasn't played in that market. But between the agreement with IBM (which was more about tablets) and the iPad Pro (which was obviously about tablets) they clearly care about playing in that market. There are rumors there will be a third "Pro" version of the iPhone 7 this fall. With rumors who knows whether that is true and if so what would make it "Pro", but I wouldn't be surprised for them to continue slowly but surely trying to better serve the enterprise market.

        An iPhone 7 Pro sure as hell won't be at €120 though. If you are looking for budget, Android is your only choice now that Windows Phone is collapsing in upon itself.

        1. Fihart

          Re: Business phone ... anyone?

          In my opinion Apple don't know how to make a phone for business. Crippled USB and Bluetooth make it painful to import documents or graphics into the phone (don't even mention bloody iTunes as a means). Tiny onscreen keyboard makes creating and editing documents maddening.

          Compares very badly with the Nokia E71 which (a few years ago) stood in for my laptop to send out stuff while we temporarily lacked a landline and broadband.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Business phone ... anyone?

            How's Apple's keyboard any tinier than anyone else's? There's a limit to what you can do with a keyboard on a screen that size, and going to a 6.5" phone calling that 'enterprise' doesn't really solve that problem. It works just fine with a bluetooth keyboard if you need that, but I don't equate 'enterprise phone' with being able to easily type in a bunch of numbers in a spreadsheet or a two page email.

            1. Fihart

              Re: Business phone ... anyone? @DougS

              Quite right about using a Bluetooth keyboard with an iPhone -- but it's not exactly as portable as the old Nokia's inbuilt QWERTY keyboard.

  6. Sil

    The very high price of loyalty

    Count me among the people that think Microsoft could hardly have done worse than it did with its Nokia acquisition.

    It should have immediately sold all factories while they were worth something and made a pact with the acquirer to order x million phones a year.

    It would have been much less costly.

    Still, one has to admire Microsoft for having purchased Nokia, knowing full well how it would all end. Let's remember Microsoft was under no contractual obligation to do so.

    Most people were against the purchase, and I have no doubt there were no excel spreadsheet scenarios with rosy profit forecasts when the decision was taken.

    It could have let Nokia fire tens of thousand of employees and go broke.

    It could have lent Nokia a few billion dollars to survive a few years, knowing full well it would never get the money back.

    1. Ian 55

      Re: The very high price of loyalty

      It would be fascinating to see who has profited from this.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: The very high price of loyalty

        "It would be fascinating to see who has profited from this."


      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The very high price of loyalty

        > It would be fascinating to see who has profited from this.

        Stephen Elop

      3. Mage Silver badge
        Black Helicopters

        Re: The very high price of loyalty

        Nokia did OK.

        Yet again they re-invent:


        Welly boots

        Satellite boxes




        They've eaten Siemens and Motorola in the Network Infrastructure space. Ericsson and Huawei is maybe main competition left.

        Nokia Networks: Make, install and maintain the infrastructure the phones use. They never sold ANY phone IP to Microsoft or the Name. They got all the money from MS in exchange for stuff they were going to dump.

        So was Elop a Trojan or a double Agent? :)

        1. MacroRodent

          Re: The very high price of loyalty

          They've eaten Siemens and Motorola in the Network Infrastructure space.

          You forgot the latest, Alcatel-Lucent. (Which actually means Nokia is now the owner of the legendary Bell Labs!)

          1. Mike Allum

            Re: The very high price of loyalty

            Oh goodness! Poor old Bell Labs.

      4. Robert Halloran

        Re: The very high price of loyalty

        That idiot Elop, who no doubt got a pretty signing bonus going into Nokia from MS and an equally sharp golden chute as it was assimilated by the Borg. In the meantime a major handset mfr was driven into the ground at warp speed thanks to WP.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The very high price of loyalty

      "It should have immediately sold all factories while they were worth something and made a pact with the acquirer to order x million phones a year.

      It would have been much less costly."

      Either you're saying the MS are too incompetant to run factories (quite possible) and someone else could have turned a profit on them, or you're suggesting that they should have dumped them on some mug who signs the cheque before they do their sums. Which is it?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The very high price of loyalty

      Nokia wouldn't have gone broke, the Androids they started selling just before the MS buyout were picking up nicely. If MS hadn't bought them they would have morphed into at least a minor Android player, maybe a good business Android manufacturer.

    4. azaks

      Re: The very high price of loyalty

      >> Count me among the people that think Microsoft could hardly have done worse than it did with its Nokia acquisition.

      Everything is obvious in hindsight. It actually made a lot of sense at the time. Nokia make great hardware (my Lumia 920 is nearly 5 years old and hasn't missed a beat) and needed a lifeline as they had totally missed the OS boat. MS needed a hardware platform that would commit to the Windows Mobile OS instead of only token support. Both companies needed it, and it could have worked. The few Lumias they brought out were great products, but by changing strategy every 5 minutes they missed the opportunity.

      'Tis a pity. I don't really like Apple or Android offerings, so I am going to have to pick the one I dislike the least. Not a great position to be in.

      1. Mike Allum

        Re: The very high price of loyalty

        The Lumia hardware is the usual Nokia standard of robust fabulousness but the software has the sickly smell of Series 60 about it.

        Sure there were really good features such as flexible combination of the different sources of cloud-based address books and the voice recognition - but the GUI was as slow as a dog at times and there were a whole load of "drop dead" problems as well.

        From day 1 mine would, after certain alerts, fail to respond to the touch screen and oblige me to whip out the battery. I had 2 replacement units that did exactly the same before I just gave up and accepted it as it was. This last weekend it took to doing it on a daily basis so I did a factory reset.

        The lockup has returned to its previous frequency but it has now taken to restarting itself after certain stimuli (receiving text messages and acquiring a list of wireless networks).

        I will subject myself to another couple of 20 minute sessions of watching the cogwheels as it zarks off into some hyper-realm during the factory reset (3 was the magic number that restored the previously-working-but-stuffed-up-by-the-"upgrade"-to-the-Denim-release wireless networking) but if that fails to bring back an acceptable level of functionality then, like you, I will have to go with what I least dislike. At the moment the top of that list is Lumia.

    5. Richard Plinston

      Re: The very high price of loyalty

      > It could have lent Nokia a few billion dollars to survive a few years, knowing full well it would never get the money back.

      Part of the deal with WinPhone was that Microsoft paid Nokia a billion dollars a year. That 4 or 5 billion cost is in addition to the $7.6billion writedown and this new one billion.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The very high price of loyalty

      Wow, you really do think that Nokia was only ever in the cellphone business, don't you?

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not to worry,

    They still make plenty of cash from Android.

  8. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    Nominative determinism

    Oy, in several languages neighboring the location of Microsoft Mobile Oy is used to signify pain being inflicted on the subject.

    Classic case of nominative determinism.

    1. jelockwood

      Re: Nominative determinism

      Perhaps whoever picked Oy was thinking back to WinCE (ouch!)

      1. MacroRodent

        Re: Nominative determinism

        "Oy" in Finnish is an abbreviation that means pretty much the same as "Ltd" in English.

        1. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

          Re: Nominative determinism

          Author was probably playing on widely known "Oy vey!".

          Voland's right hand is, well, right. In Slavic and Fenno-Ugric languages sound like "Oy" marks either pain (ow! my balls!) or not-so-pleasant surprise (oops! or ouch!). Not sure about Swedish. But exclamation Oi! is present in older forms of English, so why not Swedish and Norwegian too.

          1. nugge

            Re: Nominative determinism

            In Swedish, 'Oj!' or 'Ojsan!' means 'Oops' or 'Oh'.

  9. Dwarf

    Whats included ?

    Does this include the damage done to the desktop market by trying to make everything look and work similarly on different devices or this just the Nokia piece of the cake ?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Whats included ?

      Erm yeah we had a windows 7 machine at the tiny branch office I'm currently seconded to which the boss there was using. I came in yesterday afternoon and I've never seen this guy so worked up Windows 10 had been installed without his knowledge overnight and he can't stand it.

      He said "it looks too much like my wife's crappy phone, you will make it so that I have it looking like what I had before"

      "I'll need to install Classic Shell"

      "Don't install anything please we need to have IT Support permission to install anything"

      "Can I roll it back to WIndows 7 then"

      "Will it keep all the files I've worked on this morning?"

      "Can't guarantee that'

      "Well what can we do' and why the F*ck is there a copy of Candy Crush anything and Xbox? Get rid of them.......please"

      "I can't delete XBox but Candy Crush is now gone"

      "Why is there wifi and camera in the programmes list, this computer doesn't have those things?"

      I gave up at this point.and asked him why he had chosen to upgrade. He said he didn't he clicked the red X everytime the message appeared. Yeah MSFT have had to trick people into installing it

      1. Chika

        Re: Whats included ?

        I gave up at this point.and asked him why he had chosen to upgrade. He said he didn't he clicked the red X everytime the message appeared. Yeah MSFT have had to trick people into installing it

        Looks like Microsoft have gotten themselves into very hot water over that little shinanigen.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Whats included ?

          Why does that not surprise me. I spent some of today replacing the new flat system icons with the ones from the windows.old folder because he doesn't like them

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Whats included ?

          It looks MS is firing a lot of people, but hired some old dialers developers for GWX...

      2. Frank Rysanek

        Re: spontaneous upgrade to win 10

        Happend to two sane people in our small biz last week. Both were royally pissed off. No data loss though - so far so good. It does seem like the GWX thing didn't even ask for permission this time. It just went ahead.

      3. jinx3y

        Re: Whats included ?

        have to call bullshit...I've been instaling this upgrade at user request for the past few months. I adopted the upgrade on my desktop as soon as it came out. To be fair, I did not like how much data was sent back to MS either, so I set about turning all the crap off (yes, you can turn it off - and don't get me started on how much data is sent back to Apple via iTunes). Anyway, i have never seen candy crush auto installed (unless it was there to begin with). Never saw a case of "lost documents". RTFM - if you do this, you will know where all the old docs are kept.

        Contrariwise, having prevented the upgrade from occurring on my Surface Pro 3 for almost a year. It was never forcibly installed - if you live in a country where the data laws allow this - you should move, otherwise you're just making shit up.

        WiFi and Camera are there for the case when you decide to plug one in, or if you have one of the devices plugged in, the system will try to find the right driver for it to work. Granted it's not perfect, but again, going back to my experiences, I have not yet seen an issue with an upgrade not recognizing hardware (if its there), or just installing the framework for recognizing hardware (when its not there).

        It seems like you are complaining that MS created a system to meet the masses' demands (that is also able to recognize and install any device that isn't O/S platform-proprietary <cough Apple> automatically).

        So I call bullshit - having done the installs both in Europe and in the US/Canada (I travel a bit) and not having seen the problems you describe, I have to say you are either fibbing, trolling, or your boss is an idiot, or his IT Team (you?) did the install without his permission, OR you are living in a place where the laws allow this kind of thing.

        Good day...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Whats included ?

          What are you on (apart from Windows 10 obviously)? The problems I described are to do with the bloatware, the fact that you can't pin things to the start menu (except on the right hand side) and the Windows 8 style tiles and the new start menu.

          The computer in question is now on Windows 10 there was a Candy Crush picture on the right hand side of the start menu see here:

          and which came bundled with the upgrade

          The Xbox menu entry is still there and un-deletable. The camera is also unable to be removed from the menu under all applications and whilst the wifi is deletable I was told that could stay. There are universal apps that are listed under "All Apps" that he doesn't want to see when looking for a program and these can't be hidden and in some cases can't be deleted.

          When I said that I couldn't guarantee that DURING A ROLLBACK TO WIN 7 that all the work he had done that morning would be safe I was probably being over cautious. However I didn't want something to go wrong and then cop the blame if his work was fecked by doing the roll back.

          Win10 was installed thanks to the click the red x to upgrade trick that MSFT have started to use. I wasn't in the day he clicked (on what he thought was going) to close the nagware and it happened overnight that night. See and

          If he'd wanted the bloody upgrade that would have been one thing but the fact that he didn't and was tricked into letting it happen is another. This is someone the wrong side of 50 who came into work and saw his computer now looked wholly different to how he'd left it the previous evening.

          1. nkuk

            Re: Whats included ?

            Put Linux on it. It will still look wholly different but you wont have to deal with MS shenanigans any more.

  10. thomas k

    Figures ...

    Bought a 520 in 2014, then added an LG on a different carrier. I don't use a telephone a lot and just last week cancelled the LG carrier so the 520 will be my only phone.

  11. AlexG_UK

    It's a shame

    Can honestly say, I never thought I'd say this about Microsoft, but it IS a shame. Nokia hardware (Lumia 930) and Microsoft OS (8.1) was a pretty decent phone at a great price. There were, of course, some app gaps and that is getting worse with developers fleeing the Windows 10 rewrite due to low market share.

    By all accounts Windows 10 isn't great on a phone and the new Micorsoft Lumia's feel ... well ... like poor cousins compared to their predecessors.

    1. Lyndon Hills 1

      Re: It's a shame

      I can't speak for the new Lumias but I have Win10 on my 930 and I think it's fine. I much prefer writing for the Windows phone, than for my Android. Admittedly I'm a .net person, so it may just be OS familiarity and Visual Studio, but I do find it a better development experience.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It's a shame

        Yep. Windows 10 Mobile is Betamax to Android's VHS. The winner is the crap product, but it had the marketing and the pr0n.

        1. hplasm

          Re: It's a shame

          "Yep. Windows 10 Mobile is Betamax to Android's VHS."

          Haha. Betamax was good. And people bought it.

          Try again- oh, no, don't bother...

        2. Anonymous Coward

          Re: It's a shame

          I'll stick with Video2000 then, the aborted Nokia N900 line. The USB socket is gone but it's still my favourite mobile terminal.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I do wonder though

    Reading the actual press release, I wonder if they intend to add voice call capability to the Surface. With BT earpieces getting much less conspicuous (at a price) this might keep the desktop metaphor going a bit longer for many office users and help to keep work/private phones separate more easily.

    OK I'm probably wrong but seeing what Microsoft have already done, who would want to bet?

  13. ThomH

    Surely some sort of confusion?

    I find that whenever I watch network television, characters are forever pulling out their Windows Phones in order to Bing things, whether in Hawaii or at Hollyoaks Community College. So I demand a marketshare recount.

    1. hplasm

      Re: Surely some sort of confusion?

      Non-working props? I suppose they count as 'market share'.

      And have more apps...

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hello there...

    I'm sure a Microsoft exec is writing a memo as we speak about Windows. Something like this perhaps?

    " There is a pertinent story about a man who was working on an oil platform in the North Sea. He woke up one night from a loud explosion, which suddenly set his entire oil platform on fire. In mere moments, he was surrounded by flames. Through the smoke and heat, he barely made his way out of the chaos to the platform's edge. When he looked down over the edge, all he could see were the dark, cold, foreboding Atlantic waters.

    " As the fire approached him, the man had mere seconds to react. He could stand on the platform, and inevitably be consumed by the burning flames. Or, he could plunge 30 meters in to the freezing waters. The man was standing upon a "burning platform," and he needed to make a choice.

    " He decided to jump. It was unexpected. In ordinary circumstances, the man would never consider plunging into icy waters. But these were not ordinary times - his platform was on fire. The man survived the fall and the waters. After he was rescued, he noted that a "burning platform" caused a radical change in his behaviour.

    " We too, are standing on a "burning platform," and we must decide how we are going to change our behaviour.

    Over the past few months, I've shared with you what I've heard from our shareholders, operators, developers, suppliers and from you. Today, I'm going to share what I've learned and what I have come to believe.

    " I have learned that we are standing on a burning platform.

    " And, we have more than one explosion - we have multiple points of scorching heat that are fuelling a blazing fire around us.

    " For example, there is intense heat coming from our competitors, more rapidly than we ever expected....."

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Hello there...

      "There is a pertinent story about a man who was working on an oil platform in the North Sea. ...When he looked down over the edge, all he could see were the dark, cold, foreboding Atlantic waters."

      Problem with mapping S/W.

    3. PNGuinn

      Re: Hello there... @AC Slurp insider ...

      Yup, that has the ring of authenticity.

      "... an oil platform in the North Sea .... the dark, cold, foreboding Atlantic waters ...."

      Er - (for geographically challenged Merkins) The North Sea is in the North Sea, not the somewhat larger pond to the west ....

      Presumption of rescue and survival ....

      "we have multiple points of scorching heat that are fuelling a blazing fire around us..."

      (Not the petrol we're chucking on the fire - oh no.)

      Or as the customers are increasingly doing or considering "SQUEAK, SQUEAK, JUMP."

      Burn, baby burn.

  15. Anonymous Coward

    Total fiasco

    Anyone with a Lumia should consider themselves social failures.

    1. Sir Sham Cad

      Re: Anyone with a Lumia


      Are your friendships based around the OS of your smartphone rather than actual personality and human interaction? Is your social circle actually just a WinPho version of the "No Homers" club and by extension, WinPho users being unable to join it are "failures"?

      At worst you could say they might be technical prdiection failures based on adoption of a failed ecosystem but I'm pretty sure everyone I know with a Lumia chose it because it was a good enough smartphone with nice hardware rather than nailing themselves to the Redmond/Espoo mast forever.

      1. ThomH

        Re: Anyone with a Lumia

        Indeed, the Nokia Lumia I own results from knowing that I'd be without a work phone for at least three months, having nothing else less than five years old, deciding to spend no more than $50 (without a contract), and deciding that if I'm buying whatever the network will sell me for $50 then I'd rather not have an Android because I know the network will have made the $50 Android into a piece of garbage. Conversely, Microsoft has the rules that all carrier-added applications must be uninstallable and that reskinning is not permitted, so all the network could do to my $50 Windows Phone was cost me a few minutes deleting AT&T-this and AT&T-that.

        If I'd expected to have the phone for a year or more I'd probably have spent the then-price of $200 for the cheapest decent non-carrier-supplied unlocked Android. I guess it's even less now.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Total fiasco

      Anyone with a Lumia should consider themselves social failures.

      Wow a sentence! I thought your limit would be Baa

    3. Terry 6 Silver badge

      Re: Total fiasco

      Nice trolling, but......

      Anyone who defines themself by a phone is a failure in every sense.

      It's a phone.

    4. Mikel

      Re: Total fiasco

      Lumia: the birth control phone.

  16. Bob Dole (tm)

    No surprise here

    Microsoft tends to get into a new area, make something that is *almost* good enough, start to get a following, then dump it.

    People know this, that's why so many of their ventures fail - past history. Right now Microsoft has an absolutely huge opportunity if they can just get their people to do a good job. Android security is a joke and people are starting to realize that 'droid phones aren't that great. Apple phones are starting to lose their mojo - quality of the core OS since jobs left has been steadily declining.

    The industry could absolutely use a company that delivers top notch, high quality devices. Another half ass attempt is simply not needed or desired.

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: No surprise here

      Step 1 of Microsoft's traditional sequence is to buy out the company in third place. First place is too expensive, second place thinks he can be first place, and is too expensive. Nokia was in first place, but Elop's burning platform memo quickly dropped sales/profit below Samsung and Apple and got Nokia into third place.

      Step 2 is to bundle the software with the operating system. Demand that in order to get Windows licenses, all PC distributors must include a Lumia with each PC. As phones outsell computers by a huge margin, that was never going to fly.

      Step 3 is to sit back and watch the first and second place companies die of revenue starvation. The Microsoft product may not be as good, but it should be sufficient that people do not make the effort to buy something else. Windows Phone started with so many problems that 2 out of 3 purchasers returned the phone for refund/exchange. If you wanted to buy a Windows phone, the salesman would try to sell you something else to avoid the hassle of filling out yet another returned product form.

      Microsoft did not follow their standard take over sequence with mobile phones because it was impossible. They tried anyway because the desktop PC market is shrinking and in future personal computers will be called phones. Elop nearly didn't get his $25million bonus. The bonus would only trigger if Microsoft bought Nokia, and Nokia wasn't in third place. The Lumia name was toxic - it didn't matter if Microsoft fixed all the flaws as only the truly dedicated would consider it, and lack of upgrades to incompatible versions pissed off most of the few remaining loyal customers. Elop's first attempt at selling to Microsoft failed. At this point, he made his first sensible decision: sell Android phones. Microsoft would and did pay to put a stop to that, and Elop got his bonus.

    2. Andy france Silver badge

      Re: No surprise here

      I don't think Microsoft is trying to dump the phone business, rather it's using and neglecting the Lumia brand as a reference design in the hope that OEM's will start making Windows phones without the fear that Microsoft will make it a Lumia only play. This would allow Microsoft to get out of the phone hardware business yet still take a growing share of the phone OS business.

      Whether the current tiny trickle of non Lumia Windows phones will actually turn into a flood remains to be seen.

      1. Richard Plinston

        Re: No surprise here

        > I don't think Microsoft is trying to dump the phone business,

        No, of course they aren't, it is the [lack of] customers that is dumping it.

        > the hope that OEM's will start making Windows phones

        Many OEMs have tried making Windows Phones but failed to get customers to buy them in sufficient numbers. Microsoft only implement it only a small number of semi-obsolete SoCs and won't let the OEMs tailor it to the hardware that they want to use. This makes WP permanently half a generation behind the leading edge. They are cheap relative to other models because they are being put in the remainder bins.

        Nokia phone division lost money in every quarter in spite of being given a billion dollars a year by MS. Microsoft have lost 14 billion or more (7.6b + 950m + 1b/year to Nokia), why would any OEM want to get back on that treadmill?

        > yet still take a growfalling share of the phone OS business.


  17. hplasm

    " He decided to jump."

    Then, eventually, sank without trace.

  18. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse

    North Sea or Atlantic?

    Which is it? I'm guessing you used Bing maps for advice?

    1. fandom

      Re: North Sea or Atlantic?

      The North Sea has moved to the Pacific?

  19. Simon Rockman

    It's a shame

    I've just broken my 950XL. I'm using a Galaxy S6 edge which I don't like, but Windows 10 Mobile isn't as good as 8.1 and don't want to go Apple, so I'm not sure where to go next. What I want is an HP Envy x3 but (1) it's not available and (2) I don't think I'll be able to afford it.

    I really liked my Lumia 930 but drowned it doing this:


    1. Mint Sauce

      Re: It's a shame

      Yup, been a happy enough Windows Phone 7.5/7.8 user for the last few years. Now the ole' Nokia 710 is getting a bit tired it's finally time for a change. Apple is ok but too expensive (for my tastes), tried the latest windows 10 phones and they felt like a real step back in speed and usability.

      So, seeing as Palm are no longer in the game (I miss my Centro!), I guess I'm off to Android for the first time...

      MS really seem to be doing their damnedest to burn what should have been a great platform. I wonder why?


      1. MacroRodent
        Thumb Up

        Re: It's a shame

        Now the ole' Nokia 710 is getting a bit tired it's finally time for a change.

        Same situation (as I wrote some time earlier). But now, given Nokia has just licensed the brand and IP to a Foxconn-backed phone company with HQ in Finland, I think I will wait and see if i can get again a Nokia smartphone...

    2. DryBones

      Re: It's a shame

      Well, the problem there is Samsung. It's pronounced "bloated and annoying and slow".

      Ideally Android is pronounced "Nexus". Think they're on sale too, and the N beta is fairly good now that it's hit #3.

  20. YY

    MS Windows is finished

    MS is in panic now they know Windows is finished.

    Windows is finished on phones (iPhone & Android).

    Windows is finished in the Cloud (Linux).

    Windows is finished on schools (Chromebooks & iPad)

    Windows is finished in China, Russia, India, Philippines, .., (spyware security risk: Linux).

    MS is incorporating the Linux Kernel into Windows and changing their software stack to Linux for a smooth transition.

    Windows has become irrelevant and the M$ fanboys will have to conclude that their time spent in learning the atrocious Windows is time lost.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: MS Windows is finished

      I think your first three points were good, your fourth is questionable but certainly at least partially true, but the idea that they are going to a Linux kernel? Obvious evidence of insanity and/or wishful thinking.

    2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: MS Windows is finished

      I would agree that Windows phone is mortally wounded, and about to expire.

      Microsoft are still trying to get into the cloud market. The problem here is not specifically Linux, but Amazon. Amazon need at least ten times their average capacity to handle spikes in demand. The remaining 90% would just sit idle, so they rent it out. When there is a spike in demand, it is because people are looking at Amazon, not at the other sites hosted on the same servers. Until Microsoft need reserve capacity on the same scale as Amazon, they will not be able to profitably compete on price.

      The old problem with China was that Windows was 'free' (pirated). Microsoft have made an effort to get revenue from China, but I do not have figures to support success or failure there. I would be surprised if the majority of residents in the countries you mention made an effort to understand computer security. Theresa May's best efforts have not caused a stampede to Linux here.

      Microsoft haven't incorporated the Linux kernel into Windows because of licensing issues. Likewise, WINE does not include Microsoft code for the same reason. Each is a compatibility layer that allows software compiled for the other operating system to execute. Microsoft's compatibility layer lowers to barrier for Penguins to do something useful with Windows. When that barrier drops to lower than wiping and installing a penguin's favourite distribution then it might have some effect. Microsoft are a long way from needing penguins to claim their OS has developers.

      When OSes have faded away in the past, the fanboys who wasted years honing skills with dinosaur wrangling found their rare abilities in high demand from those too locked in to jump ship early. A decade from now, Windows devs may be getting over £1000/hour from the truly desperate. We are not there yet.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: MS Windows is finished

        " A decade from now, Windows devs may be getting over £1000/hour from the truly desperate. We are not there yet."

        I doubt it. There are too many of them. Add a few more decades & you might be right.

      2. PNGuinn

        Re: MS Windows is finished @ Floke Kroes

        Would agree with your post except for one point:

        "Microsoft's compatibility layer lowers to barrier for Penguins to do something useful with Windows."

        Most of us embraced the penguin to get somewhat further than eternity away from 'em.

        I suspect that that "market" must be a tiny niche at best.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I miss those days

    When Trojan Horse Elop became Nokia's CEO and he kept insisting that Windows Phone would become a viable third ecosystem. Accompanying that rhetoric were a slew of cheesy negative attack ads against Apple and Android.

    Fun, fun times.

    No worries, Microsoft has an infinite amount of money to burn, am I right?

    1. Dick Pountain

      Re: I miss those days

      Not quite. Microsoft has a large-but-finite amount of money to burn, therefore in a finite time.

  22. Howard Hanek

    Soft in the Head

    Purely from a business philosophy and cultural perspective MS 'is' soft in the head. They should stick to soft things. Their record with hard things is abysmal.

  23. DerekCurrie

    Spend Microsoft! spend Spend SPEND!

    ... Until you're bankrupt and we can emerge from The Dark Age of Computing.

  24. john devoy

    MS seem to be run by idiots

    The sheer amount of money MS are wasting on its phones is amazing, they could have given them away cheaper.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    C'mon guys, let's cut Microsoft a bit of slack here...

    1. GrumpenKraut
    2. Chika

      C'mon guys, let's cut Microsoft a bit of slack here...

      Why should we? They haven't cut us any slack over their recent systems, have they?

  26. Howard Hanek


    Dear MS Board of Directors: You could have purchased the entire nation of Finland for what was lost on Nokia and at least have gone a long way to establishing a monopoly on reindeer to show for it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Finland

      If Microsoft was running Finland I imagine Russia would mount a hostile takeover bid for it in about three seconds, on the basis that by the time management thought of a response Putin would be giving a press conference from the Helsinki Hilton.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Finland

        It did try already, and in the Winter Russians suffered badly the Finnish Army. Of course without the help of Winter their superiority in fighting couldn't stand a much larger army.

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    As a consumer - 2 key issues ...

    1) Lack of apps. In hindsight (I know) you could have taken one hundredth of the £1billion *extra* reported here, and paid developers to create a decent enough app ecosystem to act as kindling to spark the interest of the masses

    2) How on earth did Microsoft - who are famous for crippling new operating systems in the name of compatibility (cf.IBM - can you still run VM/360 code on a iSeries ?) end up junking WinCE for WP6 for WP6.5, then WP6.5 for WP7 then WP7 for WP7.5 then WP7.5 for WP7.8 (yes, I have had phones with every variant since WinCE). With every churn you couldn't run previous apps, so developers (rightly) lost interest (and presumably money).

    There are some upsides, in a parochial vein. Our IT department which is running a "Microsoft only" shop, and refused to supply non-Windows phones as a result is now up shit creek. Especially since a lot of the senior directors (who wanted iPhones) were batted away with "you can only have Microsoft because of security" have long memories (well, they do when it comes to not getting their own way).

    1. Dadmin

      Re: As a consumer - 2 key issues ...

      "the senior directors (who wanted iPhones) were batted away with "you can only have Microsoft because of security""


      "Security" on a Win*? Surely, you jest. Very very funny! Thank you!

      All my Androids are getting kicked to the curb. I ran a Motorola RAZR from summer 2005, when it was shiny new, thru this January 2016 when the RAZR was not as sharp, but still looking shiny. I switched to an Android for a few months, having used only Android tablets of the Sammy variety for several years. I did have a first gen iPod Touch, but didn't much care for the App Store at first. Now that I've switched to a iPhone 6s+ I can't believe how long I stuck with Android! Security issues galore, weak manufacturer ecosystem, semi-forced bloatware, cheap hardware, just tat with a marginal screen and an interesting Play Store. Everything about the iPhone is just better; the screen stays cleaner, it's got better res and brightness, the apps I left behind are all on the App Store. You get what you pay for, and I'm paying for better security right out of the box and just a better ecosystem that does not orphan my devices left and right, like Sammy does. We'll see in a few year if my iDevice is left behind or not, but so far, so good.

    2. Dave 32

      Re: As a consumer - 2 key issues ...

      >(cf.IBM - can you still run VM/360 code on a iSeries ?)

      Not an iSeries, but a zSeries. And, it's VM/370 code, since the S/360 didn't support virtual storage (well, excepting for the S/360 model 67, which was a bit of a strange beast, and for that hardware hacked model 40 that the Cambridge Scientific Center had, which was a one-off beast). But, yeah, for application mode code, you can (The privileged instructions aren't necessarily the same, but the non-privileged instructions mostly are upwards compatible.).

      1. Someone Else Silver badge

        @Dave 32 -- Re: As a consumer - 2 key issues ...

        [...] and for that hardware hacked model 40 that the Cambridge Scientific Center had, which was a one-off beast [...]

        You mean the Model 44? Actually, that was a 5-off beast, with New Mexico Tech (where I matriculated) having 1, and Oberlin College having another. Cambridge Scientific makes three...I wonder who the other two poor sods were?

        What I want to know, Dave, do you know about this thingie?

        Alien...because that's what those things were

        1. Mpeler

          Re: @Dave 32 -- As a consumer - 2 key issues ...

          USC was one of the other sods (University of Southern California)... Ahh, those were the days, WATFIV and all...

    3. Mikel

      Re: As a consumer - 2 key issues ...

      You forgot Microsoft Kin. But so has everyone else. Two models only sold 300 units worldwide in five weeks before it was canceled. Compared to Kin Nokia was an epic journey.

      1. Mage Silver badge

        Re: As a consumer - 2 key issues ...

        Worse than Apple Pippin.


  28. Herby

    I understand...

    Nokia might be hiring. There seems to be available personnel available in Finland these days.....

    As for Microsoft (jokes aside)... The only sad part is that the Gates foundation might have a bit less money to spend on medical research (but not much).

    Maybe this will be a lesson learned (the more "expensive" the better learned!).

    1. Mikel

      Re: I understand...

      The Gates From foundation does not ever own Microsoft stock by policy. And Bill Gates just doesn't have a significant share of his wealth in Microsoft stock, so his input won't be impacted. He has been divesting for a generation and soon will only have a token amount. He doesn't even own as much as Ballmer.

  29. sikejsudjek

    So this is what ditched aero for ? Great....

  30. Anonymous Coward

    MSFT must do right by The Fans(tm)

    The Fans who were conned into buying the dead-end 950/950XL should be offered a CyanogenMod image so their phone can be useful again.

  31. JimboSmith Silver badge

    I went to a launch demonstration of the Windows Phone and I was surprised when they mentioned close integration with Facebook. They showed the contacts (People) and how all the facebook friends from the linked account were now in there. Someone pointed out that some of these people (I think it was a dummy account as all the phone numbers I saw had the 555 area code) didn't have any contact details attached to them. Someone else asked what the options were for removing these entries from the phone, citing a large number of facebook friends who had not given facebook any contact details. There seemed to be some confusion when deleting them didn't work and the girl had to go and ask someone else for help.

    A nice bloke came over and explained that you can't delete them to much concern from our group. He then says not to worry though you can hide them so they don't appear. He demonstrates this and everyone is happy until the girl then shows the search function and the hidden name came back. Bloke comes back and explains that they are only hidden from the main view but will show up in a search. The "removal" man asked what he was supposed to do with the 600 Fbook friends he had and the response was use the Fbook website not the app.

    Then I asked about the pictures that were flashing up on the (live?) tile of the People app and asked if the pictures being shown were of people with updates. Nope they're just randomly selected which seemed to me to be a missed opportunity. There was no cut & paste and a large black bar down the right hand side with only one thing in it a an arrow in a circle. That seemed like an awful waste of space and that combined with the lack of expandable storage made me think that this was an OS getting off to a very rocky start. I don't know if any of those flaws (other than the cut and paste) were ever fixed but it put me off for life.

  32. minnsey231

    I might be the only one but...

    For $29 dollars (admittedly locked to AT&T) from BestBuy here in the States, whats not to like about my 635 running Windows 10.

    How many apps do I use? Not many email, calendar, office, 2FA, The Guardian, a couple of games, the camera. Its been a while since I tried an Android, but I find Outlook and the converged messaging in Windows 10 great.

    Does it have quirks, absolutely. Is it responsive, yes, does the battery last twice as long as any Android smartphone I've used, absolutely. Is it good for making and taking calls, yep.

    Do I use Facebook, Social media and 101 other things other use their phone for, probably not.

    But, personally, I'll be sad to see MS Phone die.

    1. wsm

      Re: I might be the only one but...

      Not the only one. I have a $30 Lumia 640 which I unlocked, de-branded and turned off the Windows 10 upgrades.

      Unlimited talk, text and data for $40 a month makes it complete.

      For everything else, I have gigabit bandwidth on a multiplicity of devices provided by my employer. But my no-nonsense phone is mine.

  33. Doctor Tarr


    As an ex prion employee it's such a shame they (psion & Nokia) didn't invest enough in symbian and bailed out on the cusp of the smartphone explosion.

    It was all there but didn't have the investment or vision from the board. Psion sold their part of symbian for something like £26m in the end. Total peanuts in the smartphone market. This 'windfall' was distributed to shareholders and not put into development of the Teklogix business (who made the best industrial handheld terminals at the time).

    Instead psion went into its shell when win ce got strong and the ipaq came into the market.

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If you behave like an a***hole...

    expect to get butt ***ked

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    As a Nokia/Symbian user, there's

    a wry smile on my face when I think of the brilliant burning platform tactic which sank Nokia, in the absence for a year of any Nokia Windows phones for Nokia customers to turn to.

    Similarly, sales of Windows phones, which were heading towards 50% of iOS in some markets, turned into a rounding error in the sales stats when Windows 10 for phones was trumpeted as the way forward, and a year passed before any Window 10 phones were commercially available (no, insider previews for fanboys don't count).

    By the way, while Microsoft shut down a lot of the functionality on my 808, my HERE map service still works (for now). Looking to upgrade your Windows 10 phone? Try Nokia 808 running Symbian. Lol.

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "We are focusing our phone efforts where we have differentiation,"

    Translation: 'We fucked up!'....

    And this just goes to show how fucked up all smartphones are...

    "A Norwegian consumer group has begun a marathon live "readathon" in an attempt to highlight the unrealistically lengthy terms of service and privacy policies that people must sign up to when using apps on an average smartphone. The current state of terms and conditions for digital services is bordering on the absurd,"

  37. Ted's Toy

    When I was in business ( Just over 40 years as an owner) prior to retirement the failure rare of a commercial undertaking was 20% p.a. so that give the success rate any venture or enterprise a dismal rate of success and the more one tries the greater the chance of either happening. It is not surprising that one failure leads to a similar failure when it is tried again.

  38. W. Anderson

    anecdotal stories of personal Lumina smartphones is not the critical topic

    With this catastrophic loss and downgrade of Microsoft's Mobile business, it is astounding that the Microsoft dupes on this The Register thread chose instead to lament their beloved Lumina smartphone upgrade woes - ad nauseam, and not discuss the implication for Microsoft of a future where Apple iOS and Android control most if not all of the Mobile spectrum, including "enterprise and Government" mobile needs, Media, education and the exploding Internet of Things (IoT) with every appliance, automobile and home devic eis linked to Mobile Internet.

    1. MacroRodent

      Re: anecdotal stories of personal Lumina smartphones is not the critical topic

      It's Lumia, not Lumina we are nostalgic about. About IoT, MS is not in the running because of licensing. Device makers these days want access to the source of the OS; and also zero cost for the OS per unit, and MS cannot compete with Open Source OS's in this game.

      1. jinx3y

        Re: anecdotal stories of personal Lumina smartphones is not the critical topic

        ...Apple's version of IoT involves proprietary hardware and andriod's "open" source platform (which is not as open as you would believe) has security problems left and right. Devving for MS with IoT in mind allows both MS-compatible devices as well as apple and android (not sure about others)...Xamia?

      2. W. Anderson

        Re: anecdotal stories of personal Lumina smartphones is not the critical topic

        The reason you "claim" for Microsoft being a no-show in IoT spectrum are of no consequence if the company is/has lost out almost compltely, which very negatively affect it's potential for viability in future.

        Results, and the effects of better (significantly more adopted) technology are only elements for reality in technology business in 2016 and beyond, no excuses.

  39. Phil Kingston


    I might be able to pick up a few 950's in the bargain bin soon.

  40. Anonymous Coward

    A lot of hot air in this thread

    M$ are suffering from Karma, it was bound to happen; they have fucked us over so many times, eventually it was going to bite them on the arse.

  41. YY

    Microsoft is like a supermodel with a deadly STD.

    The kiss of death soon follows the courtship, after which they leave an empty body and move on to the next innocent to prey on. And while this was profitable for the shareholders before, now has the time come for an uproar against this chicken game.

    Soon the day will come that MS has to transform from a Marketing Machine into a real Software Company and it will be interesting to see the laws of Darwin applied to them >:-)

  42. pensive69

    microsoft plan

    for what it's worth if i was head of this department i'd suggest MS offer a VMWare type phone

    where you.customer could install any damn OS you wanted,,, put a lot of memory in the sucker

    and load a few ...Windows, Android, whatever.

  43. pensive69

    microsoft options in the phone world

    for what it's worth if i was head of this department i'd suggest MS offer a VMWare / virtual machine ype phone where the.customer could install any damn OS wanted,,, put a lot of memory in the sucker

    and load a few ...Windows, Android, whatever.

  44. PaulR79

    Lots of promise but that's all it ever had

    The biggest issue Microsoft have (had?) is that they were treating the phone OS as they would a desktop OS. I don't mean the app compatibility thing I am referring to the glacial pace of "one update a year". When Android and Apple have obvious (to smartphone users) features like copy and paste, multitasking and others it took Microsoft way too long to implement those features. Add to that their incredibly bad and slow app approval process and you have an OS that is so far behind the curse that it was hoping to rely on apps but their approval time stopped that happening.

    I said at the start with Windows Phone 7, and again with 8, that it had a lot of potential but Microsoft did not seem to be very interested in putting the resources behind it to give it the massive shove it needed. The whole "smoked by Windows Phone" fiasco was pathetic. It might boot up and do something faster than my Android phone but how often do you turn off your phone? That was also using the horrible Windows Phone 7 which couldn't be upgraded to 8. Good plan! Brand new phone OS, brand new ecosystem, trying to push it as an alternative to Android and Apple - abandoned / no upgrade path to 8 a year later.

    It's got to go down as a huge fail for how often they just did not get what people wanted and kept trying to tell them what they wanted - just like Windows 8.

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I thiink that dumping mobile will turn out to be the mistake of the century, comparable to IBM saying that PCs would never be big.

    Home-users with heterogenous computing devices are often happy to simplify by moving to Win 10 and many households are slowly growing their stock of mobile-stuff.

    Ubuntu moved early to one-interface-fits-all and their mobiles did not do well either, but their admins are different than joe-bloggs with a couple of kids on Windows.

  46. SidF

    I really like my Nokia Lumia 735 WP8.1 phone and at my age, it could be my last. Here Drive + is excellent as are the Track my Walk/Bike ride apps. Bluetooth music/phone in the car works well. Getting data off the phone is easy. It also has a better than average antenna which is essential when you like out in rural UK like I do and only very weak 2G signals are available. The camera is OK.

    If this ever fails, I'll probably be in the market for a second hand one. I haven't tried a Windows 10 phone but I did set one up for a friend. The only downside I found ( I didn't look very far) was that the setting to mail self when sending mail from the phone has been discontinued and you have to add yourself every time you send a mail from the phone.

    I suppose I trust Google less than I trust Microsoft. I'm also a Linux user and might just take a look at Ubuntu phones if they ever drop into the below £100 price range.

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