Windows 10 free upgrade offer ends on July 29th Microsoft has announced that the free all-you-can-eat Windows 10 upgrade buffet will close forever on July 29, and that after that you'll have to pay for all the fun of its latest operating system. US$119 is the price Redmond has set for the Home version of the operating system. A sales person in a live chat session on the …
> No, it will encrypt your disks and ask to buy and install Windows 10 to restore them.
Hey, can the update actually update a PC with an encrypted disk? Mine keeps failing and then insisting on downloading the whole damn thing again... and again. Seems lots of reports of this failing for encrypted disks.
So I guess they'll have to force you to install.
Redmond's now hustling the holdouts to upgrade in the few remaining weeks Windows 10 will be gratis.
That's probably the scariest line in the article... What's up their sleeve to push us harder?
six billion queries sent Cortana's way since launch
So out of 300M "devices", that's only 20 queries per. Everyone turning it off maybe?
What's up their sleeve to push us harder?
It will happen this way. You may be walking. Maybe the first sunny day of the spring. And a car will slow beside you, and a door will open, and someone you know, maybe even trust, will get out of the car. And he will smile, a becoming smile. But he will leave open the door of the car and offer to give you a lift...
If you were an ordinary user you wouldn't be saying that.
Regular people are prepared to spend extra money to get Windows, or even more money to get Mac OS, rather than accept the Linux OS for free.
That is how regular people feel about Linux -- so lame they will pay money to avoid it.
They want something that doesn't require skill.
Advertising budgets are probably the biggest deterrent to greater acceptance of many fine Linux Distros. MX-15 and LinuxMint are excellent distros, but most home users don't know about them, although LinuxMint does have some name recognition.
I use MX-15, and it is excellent, at home and the biggest problem I see with it for most home users is that, occasionally, I have to use run apt from the command line to remove replaced software. It is not hard to do and the installer gives you the command to copy and paste and the MX-15 site has many great video tutorials made by the folks who keep the project running, but I've always thought that having to use the command line would frighten a lot of my friends.
Regular people are prepared to spend extra money to get Windows, or even more money to get Mac OS, rather than accept the Linux OS for free.
That is how regular people feel about Linux -- so lame they will pay money to avoid it.
I think you underestimate the comfort factor of an OS that comes preinstalled on a computer, and doesn't require any thought or effort on the part of the user.
If every PC in the world was supplied with Linux (or some other free OS) and Windows was something one could download for free and install oneself then most people would stick with the free thing and not bother with Windows.
Most people don't care which OS they have (unless they have a specific need to run a particular application) they just don't want to have to learn anything or do anything technical for themselves.
Then you have a way to undercut other computer sellers who must pay for the Windows licence, or at least will soon.
Sell a range of computers and laptops that have a free OS for $50 less (or whatever the OEM cost is for W10).
These days of $300 laptops actually working means $50 is a huge reduction.
Since the user 'does not care' and placing an OS on the computer that 'looks' like Windows used to look at least is easy enough, this sounds like a massive money-spinner.
I couldn't afford to build such an enterprise but then I wouldn't risk it anyway.
But I would love to see someone else do it and prove the point once and for all.
Given that we hear MS have no power or control over OEMs etc., the time must be ripe.
I think you're still assuming too much about the average computer user. To the majority, a computer is an appliance. They buy it, plug it in, and use it. They have no grasp of replacing the OS with something else. That would be akin to removing the control panel from the microwave and installing a different one.
I know, because whenever someone is asking me why their computer is so slow (IE filled with crapware, pop-ups, and toolbars) their question is "Should I just buy a new one?", and when I explain how to do a wipe and reinstall, they're astounded by how fast it is afterwards.
"Sell a range of computers and laptops that have a free OS for $50 less (or whatever the OEM cost is for W10)."
It's been tried and there are two problems. Firstly, it turns out that the cost of an OEM licence, at least to a large reseller, is nearer $10 than $50, so the price reduction is wiped out. Secondly, it turns out that the cost of an OEM licence, at least to a large reseller, is *only* nearer $10 than $50 if the aforementioned reseller does *not* offer a non-Windows alternative.
> It's been tried and there are two problems.
There are more problems than that. Retailers selling Windows have the ability to up the revenue, and profit, by selling 'essential' addons, such as Nortons, Office, games and such which they would not have with equivalent Linux machines. Also they know that within three years the Windows machine will slow to a crawl as junk accumulates and they will 'need' a replacement that will be so much faster (though a re-install from scratch will do the same). Linux machines tend to last must longer - machines running here are between 6 and 14 years old.
"That is how regular people feel about Linux -- so lame they will pay money to avoid it."
Or to look at it another way. They get mugged by the salesman into paying for a pre-installed copy of OS/X or Windows.
The actual process that a regular person goes through to get Linux is:
1) buy a new machine with OS/X or Windows pre-installed.
2) discover the pre-installed OS has a completely different UI from the one they are used to, and it doesn't support their existing peripherals, software and work-flows despite being advertised as being compatible.
3) try to get "support" from the vendors, discover that the vendors are incapable of providing support or simply don't provide support to "regular users".
4) find a Linux with screenshots that resemble WinXP, try it out on a USB stick.
5) click the install button, and I find that on 70% of cases they never to boot the pre-installed crapware again.
@WatAWorld
You're displaying a fairly common human trait: thinking that your experience is universal. Those of us who have been zapping Windows in favour of Linux for friends, relatives or clients have a different experience. Clearly this isn't one that you're going to share; from what you say it seems likely it would be outside your comfort zone although you'd probably be surprised to find it wouldn't be outside your capabilities.
@Captain Daft
RE: "Most people will put up with any cost or tribulation to avoid having to think, even if a second's thought would make life much easier."
To be honest, installing Linux doesn't really make your life any easier for a non expert user; perhaps not even for an expert user - just a bit different. There are still the same concepts of programs and disks and memory to force into your head, and things still operate in pretty much the same ways with task bars and menus and buttons to click. And then you have to be told why all those programs you bought from a shop, or downloaded from a website, will not work on your machine. Its just different sides of the same coin, which is trite but true. Things still go wrong and stop working and bugs still pop up gibberish messages and you will still on occasion feel like dropping the thing out the window onto the concrete before that amazing tech friend comes along and amazes you some more by fixing it in 5 minutes. Windows, Linux, or OSX - You will still feel the pain of mysterious things going on. Its just that your amazing tech friend will be happier or sadder depending upon which operating system you are using so you go along with him (or her) and smile at appropriate times just to make him (or her) happy and feel appreciated. They will not really understand why you are angry/sad/happy/tearing out hair because of an operating system. They wont even understand what an operating system is, even if they nod encouragingly at you.
If your non expert users appear happier under Linux they are probably just humoring the strangely obsessive nerd who keeps the machine working for them. They might even feel a bit sorry for you but they wont say it.
To be honest, installing Linux doesn't really make your life any easier for a non expert user
Manifestly untrue! None of the recent converts to Linux that I know of have complained about the following:
* The discovery that all of your data allowance has been disappeared for "your convenience".
* Being nagged to convert the system you are used to to one where you can no longer find what you need.
* Being told to wait while the system updates itself, sometimes for hours.
* Discovering that the update has replaced the most recent and stable version of a driver with an older and buggier one.
So far (and this may change) the users I know who are now running Mint do not need support. They interract with their computers to browse the web and access email via their web browser. A smaller number generate documents with Libre Office. I spend vasty amounts of time basking in the thankyous for "fixing my machine" compared to when they were running W7. Not once in the better part of a year have I heard the plaintive cry: "Help! My computer's stopped working; the Internet's broken; Why has my computer slowed to a crawl!"
It's a reitiree's dream :-)
> Regular people are prepared to spend extra money to get Windows, or even more money to get Mac OS, rather than accept the Linux OS for free.
But they don't "spend extra money to get Windows". Most people can't avoid paying for Windows, the computers in retail shops are not cheaper when Windows is overwritten.
Your "more money to get Mac OS" is also misleading. Apple computers may be cheaper than top-of-line Windows computers. In general, MacOS upgrades are cheaper than Windows upgrades.
I'm sick of people who keep implying like parrots that in order to be able to use Linux you need to have some kind of "special skill". Are you still living in 2006? I find it *far* more complicated to install Windows with all the drivers and apps these days than any Linux distribution, and especially if installing it on a laptop. Get informed, mate. Stop talking from your behind.
Pay for a new operating system when they buy a new computer.
They'll pay for an MS operating system, a few will pay even more money for an Apple operating system, and an even smaller number will accept Linux, the OS that Torvalds has spent his life trying to give away for free.
You're only partly right. Most people absolutely get their operating system at the time of purchase. So when people buy a new endpoint:
Most will get an Android-based operating system.
Many will get an Apple operating system.
Some will get a Microsoft operating system.
Almost none will get a non-Android Linux operating system.
---
When people buy a new server:
Most will get an Open Source hypervisor (Xen or KVM)
Many will get VMware as the hypervisor.
Some will get a Microsoft hypervisor.
Even fewer will get Linux on metal to run Oracle databases.
Very few will get a mainframe or run a metal OS for non-Oracle purposes.
---
Microsoft isn't top dog on servers or endpoints.
Thank Jibbers. It's about fucking time.
"Most will get an Open Source hypervisor (Xen or KVM)"
KVMs market share is about 1%.
"Some will get a Microsoft hypervisor."
Hyper-V has over 30% market share.
"Microsoft isn't top dog on servers or endpoints."
According to Forbes, Microsoft have about 75% market share for servers.
> Microsoft have about 75% market share for servers.
This is the usual TheVogon misrepresentation.
> KVMs market share is about 1%.
That is true when 'market share' is measured in sales dollars. But then KVM is free and included with several Linux distributions. The numbers in use are almost impossible to know.
> Microsoft have about 75% market share for servers.
Again that measures 'share' by sales dollars including both the hardware and software. Linux servers are often purchased as raw hardware (which don't show in the 'market share for servers') and then have Linux installed (which may or may not show as server sales depending on whether it is entirely free or has some small cost).
As an example the vast server farms used by Google, Amazon, and many others, are not in that 'market share'.
The actual share by numbers is the reverse of this, Windows servers are about 25% by number.
"They'll pay for an MS operating system, a few will pay even more money for an Apple operating system, and an even smaller number will accept Linux, the OS that Torvalds has spent his life trying to give away for free."
The vast majority of "pre-installed" OS/X & Windows licenses sold to end users are "free" at the point of purchase, so no different from the "regular person's" point of view then.
Sneer as much as you like as you sit on your pile of shillings, but your sneering won't stop people using free software because it's addressing requirements that vendors are unwilling or unable to address. That hasn't stopped the vendors from taking code and ideas from free software though and sell the same stuff onto their punters for money, TCP/IP stacks being just one small but very important example.
Also your sneering won't make Win 10's UI less ugly, so maybe you should bite the bullet and move onto something that's easier to use and nicer to look at.
"But Microsoft wouldn't deliberately degrade these OSs would they?"
My experience is that they already have done.
For testing purposes, I have maintained a number of machine images for various OSes over the last decade or so. They are "clean" images in the sense that they contain only the basic OS. If I actually want to use them, I make a copy of the disc image and install whatever I want on the copy, then discard the copy after I've finished with it. The only action that the pristine images see is that they are exposed to Windows Update every month or two. A fairly easy life for an OS, you might have thought.
Near the end of XP's life, the XP images were taking half an hour or more to crawl through Windows Update. Perhaps the accumulated cruft of over a decade of patches was finally beginning to take its toll, I might have thought ... except that I'd seen this before.
My Vista images showed the same symptoms after just 2 or 3 years, to the extent that they eventually updated themselves into a state of unbootability. Faced with the choice of re-creating them from scratch and re-applying several years of patches, or just not supporting Vista anymore, I initially took the former option but after the second or third repetition of this self-inflicted death I just gave up on Vista, about a year before giving up on XP.
I've been seeing similar slow-downs on my Win7 images for a couple of years now and one of them turned up its toes the other month. I haven't replaced it. I don't honestly believe that MS are giving it any love. It is "out of support" in all but name.
Windows Update is a deeply, deeply, crap piece of software that is slowly killing off all of Microsoft's OSes. Win10 is currently offering a temporary respite, since the Win7 images that I've allowed to upgrade have lost about 10GB of disc usage and knocked about half an hour off the time taken to apply updates. However, I expect it to "grow old and fat" in the same way, and Microsoft's proud boast that this is the last ever release (because they are moving to rolling updates) scares me. For the last 15 years, a completely new release from a clean ISO has been the cure for MSI-related sclerosis. Are we/they about to lose that?
Windows Update is a deeply, deeply, crap piece of software that is slowly killing off all of Microsoft's OSes.
I allowed WU to automatically update a Windows 7 install to the point of no return. At that point, the machine was running far more slowly than before the GWX affair began and the slowdown was happening before GWX. MS have clearly done something to degrade W7 as a method of forcing users to upgrade.
As for the bizarre belief that the ordinary user wouldn't be comfortable with Linux, my experience so far is that users upgraded to Mint are greatly relieved at the enhanced performance and similarity to what they are used to. The local computer repairer is upgrading several machines a week to Mint and also reports no complaints. He doesn't even need to suggest it as in a rural community, news, good or bad, travels pretty fast. Rex now has clients coming and asking to be upgraded to Mint on the advice of their friends who have already done so.
As the clients I support run Windows 7 and aren't likely to 'upgrade' while 7 is still supported. I hope I will be retired by then as Windows 10 has nothing new I want - might be different if I had had to suffer 8 - but more crucially it has stuff I don't want at any price. If it were simply an irksome unnecessary UI change, I'd live with it. I'm not having the telemetry, forced updates, random feature removal and advertising - not now, not ever.
I have always found Windows a very productive environment for application development, but I won't be using it for anything new. Trust is gone and cannot be regained.
So what are you going to trust now?
Nothing. BSD maybe. But I wouldn't use BSD on an endpoint.
OS/X? Like Apple never jerked anyone around?
Getting punched in the gut is better than getting punched in the dick, so Apple's still a better choice than Microsoft.
Or Linux, because Linus has such immense respect for computer professionals.
Being ineffectively kicked in the shins is better than being punched in the dick, so Linux is a way better choice than Microsoft.
Just because other vendors abuse you doesn't mean you should voluntarily choose the abuser that spends their time punching you in the dick and telling you it's your own fault.
Walk away and preserve some semblance of dignity, eh?
"Being ineffectively kicked in the shins is better than being punched in the dick, so Linux is a way better choice than Microsoft."
I'd say Microsoft's strategy is more like offering you a free handy, making you pay extra to finish, then even more later to cure you when you find it burns when you pee.
Or Linux, because Linus has such immense respect for computer professionals.
That depends on the "professionals". A lot of the problems with Windows and Apple systems stem mainly from certain "professionals" who, at bottom, are arseholes. Being open source "professionals" however does not preclude a "professional" from being an arsehole either and Linus has a low tolerance for that sort of thing.
That's the difference, you see. In the Microsoft and Apple worlds, the execs and the marketing folk cover their arseholes. LT kicks them instead.
Of course, when it comes to the slimier side of Linux, like RedHat for example with their wholesale obsession with being the next Microsoft, that kick sometimes turns into a squelchy splatting sound. Sad, really. Thankfully Linux is not RedHat!
"OS/X? Like Apple never jerked anyone around?"
This is something I never figured out, using OS X for now 6 years.
Where exactly has Apple screwed their customers ? Yes, they sell HW+SW in a single package, and it's a closed eco-system. And yes, it's 2X more expensive than a HW malware-riddled Lenovo laptop.
But other than this, where have they mis-behaved ? I wish someone explains this mystery to me.
"But other than this, where have they mis-behaved ?"
The version of OSX I have on my rarely used Mac Mini keeps popping up and telling me to upgrade to the latest OS version. The only choices I get are 'upgrade now', 'remind me tonight', 'remind me tomorrow' or to 'turn on automatic updates'. There's no choice for "f**k off and don't ask me again" on that box. How is that better than Microsoft?
Where exactly has Apple screwed their customers ?
Refusing to replace failed optical drive because the machine is "too old". Automatic upgrade via Internet fails because it consumes all of the user's bandwidth before completion, bricking the machine. Local computer fixit guy can't fix the now bricked machine that was chugging along quite nicely before Apple "fixed" it. The machine's owner is far from happy.
My biggest issue with Windows 10 being developed as a "service", as they put it, is that with every version of every OS I've used since Windows 3.1, I could CHOOSE whether to upgrade to get new features. Now I have no choice. If Microsoft decide to completely revamp the user interface, in the old days I could just choose not to upgrade to the next version of Windows. Now, the OS I've already got installed gets an upgrade and I get the changes whether I want them or not. I've never once installed a version of Windows that I hated so much and I've never spent so much time wondering what I'm going to install instead. Good job, Microsoft. You had one of the biggest brands on the planet with Windows and you're managing to ruin it.
No, it hasn't.
20% market share for one entire year of free download is NOT a success.
If Windows 1 0 was indeed the bee's knees as we have been repeatedly told, then everyone should have downloaded it. Win 1 0 market share should be in the upper 70%.
The program has demonstrated that Microsoft cannot capture more than one-fifth of the market with a free upgrade.
I count that as a failure.
I suppose to make a fair judgement, we really need to know what percentage of pre-existing OS's were eligible for the free upgrade. There's a fair percentage that don't run Windows 7/8 to start with, then there's the Enterprise editions which also don't get the upgrade.
If only 45% of the total numbers were eligible, and they've got almost half of them to upgrade, that'd be a fairly good outcome for any marketing department.
They've got 15% share, and a good chunk of those will be ones that were bought new. The Windows 7 share has hardly changed at all, the upgrades all came from Windows 8/8.1 mainly because most people disliked it more than they dislike 10.
The hardware requirements for Windows 7 and Windows 10 are pretty much identical, so I'd hazard a guess that over 90% of PCs sold with Windows 7 would be eligible to upgrade to Windows 10. Now enterprise licensed ones wouldn't get offered, so let's call that 60%. If you go by the number of Windows 7 machines which hardly dropped at all, they didn't even manage to get 5% of the eligible ones upgraded.
Tell me again how this was a fairly good outcome, for something that was FREE? The only reason they are announcing the end of the free upgrades is that they hope to get some people rushing to upgrade by creating a perceived value of $119 for the upgrade.
The only rush to upgrade will be from people like me, who will clone my Windows 7 VMs and upgrade them to 10 then put them on ice. Just so I will have some Windows 10 installs available if I ever have need of them someday. Meanwhile I'll keep running Windows 7 as long as it is viable.
You've missed my point. Without knowing exactly how many machines were actually eligible for the upgrade (and how many upgrades have actually happened), it's impossible for us to actually *know* whether this is a good result. Instead, MS can spin it as being the most successful campaign ever ("look 300 million installs!"), or the anti-10 brigade can spin it the as the least successful ("how many billion machines exist, you've not even got it on 1%!").
It all seems a bit petty and childish to be screaming about how badly they're doing when we don't know any of the actual figures involved (and everything MS says can be automatically discounted as it's coming from the mouths of professional liars - a marketing department).
<insert quote about lies and statistics here>
And not just free but actively forced on users.
Almost correct. My Internet bandwidth consumed by MS, not me, cost me dollars, so not really free. The bytes of data were actively forced on me, but I chose not to use W10 after discovering it wasn't fit for purpose. In effect, MS "forced" me to choose Linux Mint and I'm more than happy with that outcome. Just did my second update and it was all done and dusted in less than half an hour and no reboots required.
Yes, what happened to "Biting the hand that feed IT"?
Is The Reg fed by M$ now?
It just looks as if you copied the paper published by M$' PR!
What would have been a success: look at iPhones. When Apple publishes iOS 9.0, you have almost 100% of all the eligible devices with the new (free) upgrade -no nagware- in the next month. That is a success. 15 to 20% in 9 months of nagware is NOT a success, I agree with Pascal.
I hope The Reg will keep it's previous tone and not turn paid-by-M$-papers (or paid-by-anyone-else) because I liked your previous tone and would be sorry to have to find another online IT news site.
FTFY:
"1% market share for quarter of century of free download is NOT a success."
"If Linux was indeed the bee's knees as we have been repeatedly told, then everyone should have downloaded it".
"The program has demonstrated that Linux cannot capture more than one-hundreth of the market with a free upgrade."
"I count that as a failure."
Linux isn't a desktop success. That's for sure.
My satnav ran it for ten years.
The world's most popular type of smartphones (Android) runs it (and outsell every other type, and have more millions of devices than their competitors, if you check your numbers)
Almost every set-top box of various flavours from Tivo to Netflix to Virgin Media etc. use it, or have used it or some variant.
Everything from Raspberry Pis to Chromebooks to phone systems to ebook readers (Kobo, Kindle, etc.) to web servers to search engines to Amazon cloud to you name it run it.
The problem is that people only look at the Desktop and don't consider all the other things where Windows and Apple don't even figure in the numbers at all.
But with Android, Chromebooks, SteamOS, etc. the numbers are changing, and not in Windows or Apple's favour.
Hell, I found out the other day that my MP3 player was Linux based. I didn't even know. And that's exactly the point - nobody shouts that Linux is in a product. Everyone makes a fuss when Windows is. Shall I tell you what happened to the only Windows Surface tablet we bought in work? For four years we've been trying to find a use for it that doesn't immediately make users feel that it's inadequate and just about anything else would do a better job.
> "The program has demonstrated that Linux cannot capture more than one-hundreth of the market with a free upgrade."
Linux (the underlying OS of Android) has 80% of the sales of the most personal of personal computers - ones that you take with you in your pocket, and this represents 4 to 5 times the number of desktop Windows machines sales in the last year.
Linux also has the largest share by number of servers and has the vast majority of both extreme ends of the market in supercomputers (98%) and small SBCs.
Desktops - Windows can keep that and die with it.
> Linux (the underlying OS of Android) has 80% of the sales of the most personal of personal computers - ones that you take with you in your pocket, and this represents 4 to 5 times the number of desktop Windows machines sales in the last year.
And how many of the users of those devices chose it because it ran Linux? Actually, how many of them even realise it runs Linux? I would even go as far as to say the vast majority of Android users are such simply because it's cheaper than an iPhone.
If Google swapped out the underlying Linux portions of Android for some new creation (they've got the budget and the expertise) then I doubt more than 1%-2% of users would stick with "old" Android because of it's Linux ancestry. The rest would just follow where the chocolate factory took them.
"If Google swapped out the underlying Linux portions of Android for some new creation (they've got the budget and the expertise) then I doubt more than 1%-2% of users would stick with "old" Android because of it's Linux ancestry. The rest would just follow where the chocolate factory took them."
I can see why Windows folks think that an interchangeable OS is a terrible idea because they know that should the MS bandwagon founder there is a significant chance they are going to be left stranded on the smouldering wreckage of a burnt platform. They know this because since 1992 they've had MS burn the following platforms (each one quite unique and different): Windows 3.1, NT 3.51, NT 4.0, Vista, 7, 8, WinCE, RT...
By contrast I have been able to use the same (expanding) library of tools & code on UNIX style OSes since 1990 (when I got my hands on SunOS). That has allowed me to spend more time delivering solutions and a lot less time retraining/relearning how to do the same things over and over again. It has also meant that I am not tied to a single platform or vendor, if the platform dies or the vendor doesn't deliver what's required at a sane price there is enough competition to find an alternative or apply pressure to the vendor.
I just don't see any benefit to the user in the Windows community over the UNIX community. With the Windows community everyone follows a path that the vendor chooses to suit the vendor first and foremost. If the vendor wants change the users do the change & bear the cost, yet if a user wants a change that doesn't fit the vendor's ideas/business model - like Google for example - MS simply ignores the need. By contrast the "Unix" community provided a solution for the Googles & Apples of this world. MS loyalists *should* be pissed about that because they are missing out on being Google and Apple.
If Windows 1 0 was indeed the bee's knees as we have been repeatedly told, then everyone should have downloaded it. Win 1 0 market share should be in the upper 70%.
I downloaded it 8 time onto four machines. More accurately, MS pushed 7 unneeded and unwanted copies onto my machines. Market share of W10 on the Git's computers? 0%
I too count that as a failure.
I was postponing it until the last minute so that I could benefit from almost a year of W10 patches. Tried this morning: clicked on "upgrade" and got a message about my CPU not being compatible with Windows 10. A button offered me to shop for a new computer. No, thanks, my current desktop is perfectly capable of running OpenSuse and Windows 7 in a dual boot configuration and I don't really need any of the Windows 10 "new" capabilities.
What a relief, I now can stay in Windows 7 forever without any bad feelings about not taking advantage of the "free" offer. Hopefully they remove the nagware icon after May.
I think the most damaging think for me, was that MS backed me and the people I support into a corner over 10 - and not *just* for the 10-y reasons we're all familiar with (of course them still being a factor).
Have you tried going with an older Windows version because you don't want 10 and trying to update it? It's a sysphean struggle that would make a saint look someone from Geordie Shore.
I tried to set up a Vista machine this week (don't ask, yeah yeah). After a bored-to-tears 2 hour wait, it was *still* 'checking for updates'. Putting down my noose, I decided on a an experiment. The user only wanted something to launch Citrix from...
I grabbed a Mint ISO, made a boot stick, and in under 20 minutes I had a laptop that was re-animated with rude life, had official Citrix installed and working like a champ. A whopping 10 minutes later it was fully updated with just 228MB or whatever of patches.
Windows 7 is the same now, if you try and update it and then when you eventually fight your way through the minion patches, you lose all your lives on a GWX experience at the end. I just can't bothered.
To this this end, MS have done the worst they can, by just slowly atrophying my interest level in maintaining Windows.
I had this issue, basically set Windows 7 up without turning on updates, download and install Windows6.1-KB3102810-x64, Reboot
Download and install Never10, Check for updates, the time goes from days to maybe a hour and you install without Win10 shite being pushed down.
Jobs a good'un of course i only run Win7 via VMware Fusion on my Mac's.
Don't bang the door on your way out.
At home I've had to constantly fight with a media pc, laptop and desktop machine to stop this from installing or downloading. The media pc is going to Linux once I get round to plugging in a spare hard drive and setting it up (just to make sure I can get everything to work), the laptop and desktop are already dual boot and once Microsoft bork Windows 7 enough they will switch completely. Happily my server runs Debian and a little treasure it is, it updates when I tell it with no problems and does everything I throw at it (which is a lot)
As far as upgrades and offers go this has to be the worst decision Microsoft have ever taken, installing telemetry, forcing updates and then moving to the soon to be subscription model.
After that the only way to return to older version is with backups or a clean installation.
And I would strongly advise that you make a full backup before you "upgrade" because reverting back has been known to do odd things to your system.
Microsoft cannot invalidate your license key. You paid for it, it is yours forever.
I still have my Genuine XP disc and the license key that goes with it. That means that I can install XP if I wish - and have hardware that can run it.
Windows 7 is, of course, the same. I've paid for it, so I have the right to install and use it - as long as the hardware is compatible with it.
The day PC hardware will tell me to get something else is the day I fear. That day I will truly have no choice but to go Linux all the way, because Microsoft has burned all the bridges now and Windows 7 will be the last MS OS I will ever use at home.
"I still have my Genuine XP disc and the license key that goes with it. That means that I can install XP if I wish - and have hardware that can run it."
Or at least while MS keep the activation servers running...
The more interesting debate (and the reason I haven't upgraded) is the unclear scenario of when you try and transfer your "free" Windows 10 installation to a new PC. The best answer I can find is that MS will reject the authentication but a friendly agent would be able to activate your new installation over the phone.
If I buy Win 10 (likely case), I'll end up with a product key I can use how I like, similar to the 95, 98, XP and 7 keys I still have.
but a friendly agent would be able to activate your new installation over the phone.
In my early days of working with my OEM copy of W7 I had occasion to reinstall it several times. When it refused to automatically activate, I phoned MS and the "friendly agent" called me a pirate.
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I can't get my users to update until after the anniversary edition -- the current version simply has a look that is too cheap and plain. It looks too experimental.
It doesn't matter that Windows 10 runs great on my machine with even greater stability than Windows 7, and much greater combination of "security and efficiency" than any earlier Windows version.
MS would be doing itself a favour by extending the deadline to 4 months after the anniversary update comes out.
This morning the W7 updates prompt appeared. Claimed it had two "important" updates - one for Outlook - one the usual malicious clean-up. No problems there apparently - ran the updates. Then had to reboot as Firefox hadn't restarted after its coincidental update.
A few minutes later the MS updates prompt appeared again with one important update - with the pre-ticked KB3035583 resurrected from "hidden" yet again - dated 3 May 2016.
Do MS not understand "NO!!!!!" ?
I got Windows 10 almost immediately after it came out as I'm bit of a mug for these things. It is much faster and more responsive than Windows 7 was on my PC so I'll take that for free. I'll admit I haven't bothered to read up on the things people are getting worked up about here but there is nothing I've seen than interferes with my daily use of my PC.
The real question for me is what's next? Windows has been Microsoft's cash cow for years so so what happens for those of us who upgraded to W10? If we are in the "windows as a service" model and updates stay free how does it replace the revenue stream? For example, I paid to upgrade from XP to 7 while keeping the same PC (told you I was a mug). How will they now decide when I stop getting updates for free and I must pay if we are past big Windows version releases?
I'll admit I haven't bothered to read up on the things people are getting worked up about here but there is nothing I've seen than interferes with my daily use of my PC.
Congratulations, you're just the kind of product customer Microsoft has in mind for the brave new world of Windows.
The real question for me is what's next?
Well, assuming that Microsoft still intends making money from Windows, it'll be by subscription, or by monetising all that data slurping that you couldn't be bothered to read up about. Or both.
I have been inspired to actually pull my finger out and do some reading up. It seems the telemetry can be disabled, which isn't an easy process but is at least possible. In any case it doesn't sound much worse than the data gathered if you use any Android or iOS device without changing defaults. Am I missing something or being thick? It's been a long week so both are possible!
@BigAndos If you don't mind M$ keylogging you (all your passwords, bank details, private notes, installed software, usage patterns, web sites visited). No control over what M$ decides to put on your machine. Removal and charging for features, dictating what can and cannot be run on your machine. Passing on or selling your private detail to whoever M$ wants to.
You have all the above to look forward to. Enjoy Windows 10. Feel proud that you got it for 'FREE'.
"Microsoft has announced that the free all-you-can-eat Windows 10 upgrade buffet will close forever on July 29, and that after that you'll have to pay for all the fun of its latest operating system."
So, now the malware vector has been quite effective (300 millions), we're now to see the payload this summer.
/get pop-corn ...
Dear Microsoft,
I didn't want your Windows 10 software when it was free as half my applications wouldn't work on it, you send encrypted data back to Redmond and won't let me see the contents, you keep introducing new 'features' like adverts which I find about as appealing and useful as I did 'Clippy' further you bundled in a bunch of bandwidth hogging applications that I have no use for & then make it difficult to remove them, other applications make decisions I don't agree with & can't change - bypassing the hosts file is unforgiveable imo, also you made me go to extraordinary lengths to stop you automatically upgrading the machine I make a living from & preventing it being any use for that purpose.
So what in the seven hells makes you think I want to pay for it ?
You're treatment of your customer base has been dictatorial and frankly disgusting. You claim 300 million upgrades, how many are home users who woke up in the morning & found their shiny laptop had been turned into a brick overnight by a forced upgrade that chewed up their data allowance for a month & hasn't got the right drivers for the hardware? Oh that's right your telemetry won't show that information.
Now OK, I can do something about a lot of these issues and turn Win 10 back into something halfway usable but the amount of work involved and the nasty habit you've developed of bypassing fixes for things your users don't want, mean it's really not worth the effort.
I've already sourced my next OS and it isn't going to be Microsoft, soon as my current development project is over so are you.
Yours an ex Microsoft fan
Reminds me of Canadian farmers being sued for growing gm crops which had "seeded themselves" after being carried onto their land by the wind.
You're thinking of Percy Schmeiser. Bees cross-pollinated Percy's own crop that he saved seed for his next crop from. Percy was found guilty of stealing the genes that were transferred with the pollen. The genes were for resistance to Monsanto's glyphosate weed-killer (Roundup) and the court noted that Percy had received no benefit from those genes because he didn't spray his crop with glyphosate.
"Anyone left willing to pay US$119/£99.99?"
We'll all be forced to the first time we have to switch out our motherboard. Microsoft made it come across like anyone who upgraded for free during the offer period would never have to pay for the OS. I found out after I'd upgraded that it was temporary free licence and they considered a change of motherboard a different PC and that the license wasn't transferable. Dodgy move. They could have simply limited the activation to one PC at a time. They knew people wouldn't pay for this piece of crap so they suckered us into free upgrades and knew they had us hostage when we had to upgrade hardware. Well, when that time comes, I'll be digging out my old MSDN Windows 7 install disc and going back.
http://betanews.com/2016/05/05/dont-want-windows-10-good-news-the-nagging-will-end-soon/
How nice of MS to offer to remove the WINDOWS 10 MALWARE they've put on millions of computers worldwide. I'm still surprised that no-one has sued them yet.
Thank goodness I don't need to deal with their BS anymore.
(Posted from a Windows free environment)
If I need to wipe and reinstall... I have the installer disk for Windows 7 and I used that to build my machine - and if I had "upgraded" to Windows 10, I wouldn't get a Windows 10 installer disk shipped to me... so is there something in Windows 10 that makes a "Reinstaller" DVD or something? You know, should I ever feel the need to be a masochist and reinstall it? Say if my HDD died or something.
You can go to settings and RESET the OS, which by default does it over the Internet. You can also use the command line utility, DISM to repair an installation from Internet of a DVD or some medium that contains your install image.
There is also an USB tool to put a bootable image on USB
"300 million of us slurped it for free." And of that number, how many were forced to take Win10 because they bought a new Dell, HP, Acer, etc. box? And how many of those pulled out they're old Win7 discs and installed that? I've tried Win10 and do not like it one bit. I've never had any of the problems Win 10 is claimed to fix, partially because I run AV software, don't troll unknown sites, and don't open attachments from people I don't know. You know, basic, common sense actions.
If you set up a stand and handed out free beer you'd have a line of people waiting for a pint. You probably could call that a success, too. Try making a go out of opening a pub and actually charging for the stuff. When people have to start paying for Win 10 the only way they'll be able to move it is by forcing OEMs to install it on new kit.
The announcement "The free upgrade offer to Windows 10 was a first for Microsoft, helping people upgrade faster than ever before. And time is running out. The free upgrade offer will end on July 29 and we want to make sure you don’t miss out. After July 29th, you’ll be able to continue to get Windows 10 on a new device, or purchase a full version of Windows 10 Home for $119." doesn't mention a price for upgrades, just for outright. So more games will be afoot...
The problem with the MSWin10 free version is you can't just reserve it, or simply move your license to MSW10. You have to actually *INSTALL* it in order for the sidegrade to be considered valid. So if you want to make sure you have the free version before end-of-July, you will have to:
1: clone your hard drive
2: switch to that HDD to make sure the cloned version works
3: image that version, just to be sure you have more than one copy of a working configuration
4: run the MSWin10 migration/sidegrade.
5: Make sure you have that license number stored someplace,
6: make sure MSW10 is running to some extent
7: install chocolatey, install classic-shell & a handful of other basic applications like Firefox (if not already there)
8: run some utility like SpyBot Anti-Beacon to remove/block telemetry. Shut down and un-pin as much of the default MS crap as possible
9: INSTALL LINUX MINT as a dual-boot option, so it's in place for when you can no longer stand the stench of MSWindows
10: pull that drive and store it in a hazmat bag
11: reinstall your original drive and carry on with what you had been doing before all this mess.
at least people wont need to spend time deflecting upgrade offers.
A side benefit for those that did upgrade and are happy with win10 is not having to listen to the endless moaning from some of the above-mentioned people.
Yeah, yeah, I know - assuming the position. Down-vote away...
Its so rosy it could make M$ execs smile... But it says absolutely nothing about the pathetic sales of new PC's and how slow Win-10 uptake has only added to this according to HP's CEO amongst others... Thank you M$ for finally making this lazy ass developer install Mint and Ubuntu on all his old rigs...
MS has still got to fulfill their contract with the NSA to forward all user data they collect.
Forcing users to install Windows 10 malware for free makes no commercial sense at all. They would gain more by selling the OS to late comers AFTER THE DEADLINE! Hence the push has other reasons - NSA!
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