back to article NBN shenanigans: someone wants broadband speeds hidden

Last week The Register brought you news that the Australian Bureau of Statistics' most recent Internet Activity data combined data for broadband services advertised as “8Mbps to less than 24Mbps” and “24Mbps or greater” into a single category titled “8Mbps or greater.” At the time we suggested this was an odd categorisation, …

  1. Oengus

    Statistics

    In words attributed to a former British PM...

    "Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics".

    Why would anyone want to hide the availability/takeup of higher speed connections on the NBN? It wouldn't be anything to do with the fact that there is an election looming in Oz...

    1. elDog

      Re: Statistics

      And when statistics become uncomfortable, bundle them all into one indistinguishable mess. Liars, politicians, and marketing - indistinguishable.

    2. mathew42
      Facepalm

      Re: Statistics

      > Why would anyone want to hide the availability/takeup of higher speed connections on the NBN?

      The NBN numbers are available on the NBN website in the Media Centre under "Speeches & Certifications".

      http://www.nbnco.com.au/corporate-information/media-centre/speeches-and-presentations/nbn-half-year-financial-results-presentation-2016.html

      Slide 9 has the speed tier mix.

      - 79% on fibre connected at 25Mbps or slower

      - 16% on fibre connected at 100Mbps (down 3% in past 12 months)

      Basically Labor were overly optimistic on the number of 100Mbps connections and under estimated the proportion of 25Mbps connections.

      1. Jasonk

        Re: Statistics

        Only 7% on FTTN have connected to 100Mbps wtf

  2. Winkypop Silver badge
    FAIL

    New bandwidth terminology

    - Inadequate

    - Largely inadequate

    - Grossly inadequate

    - Non existent.

    1. MrAverage

      Re: New bandwidth terminology

      put me down for somewhere between Non existent and Grossly inadequate. Frustratingly Grossly inadequate?

      1. Mitoo Bobsworth
        Joke

        Re: New bandwidth terminology

        How about 'Frustratingly Unfathomable, Grossly Obfuscated Flim - Flam' - acronym F.U.G.O.F.F. , which is basically what they're saying to the masses.

  3. frank ly

    "... had to be confidentialised ..."

    My response to this linguistic atrocity had to be self-censorated. Moving on ......

    We need some kind of 'citizens statistics bureau' where ordinary people pool their meaurements of internet speed along with their location and the name of their ISP, etc., to be collated and published by volunteer statisticians and analysts. It should be possible to develop a simple application that does this, run by the user when they want to, that reports the results to a database. It's the only way we'll get the truth, about anything.

    1. Mitoo Bobsworth

      Re: "... had to be confidentialised ..."

      speedtest.net?

  4. Medixstiff

    Well I'm getting FTTB NBN on Wednesday, so you can bet I'll be hitting speedtest at different times up until then and after then, especially considering some of the stories recently about 100Mbps connections starting at 98 in the morning and dropping down to 10 by around 2-3PM.

  5. JJKing
    Flame

    Oh not your 79% bullshit again

    - 79% on fibre connected at 25Mbps or slower

    FFS Mathew42 how about you take your 79% broken record figure and go play it somewhere else. Have you ever replied to an nbn question WITHOUT cutting and pasting this from one of your other posts?

    Why is your head buried so far up your arse that you can't see the benefit of FTTP for the whole of Australia? What financial gain do you receive for trying to fuck the betterment of this country in both the business and personal broadband sectors?

    Of one of the business sector that I have tech experience with, if 10Gbps was available then 99% would sign up immediately.

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: Oh not your 79% bullshit again

      Why is your head buried so far up your arse that you can't see the benefit of FTTP for the whole of Australia? What financial gain do you receive for trying to fuck the betterment of this country in both the business and personal broadband sectors?

      And where do you provide evidence that either head of the bicephalic monster that resides in Canberra ever was going to provide FTTP for the whole of Australia? My guesstimate is that 25-30% of my neighbours will be transferred from ADSL to satellite. The rest of us now have access to FW and it costs me ten times as much per GB as my old ADSL connection. For the first six months my 12 Mb/s connection delivered no more than 3 Mb/s and often less*. While ADSL worked 24/7, the FW connection goes out completely for several hours about once a week. Why we weren't provided FTTP has never been adequately explained to me. Surely to goodness the poles that remain carrying the copper for our POTS could have been used to carry fibre instead.

      South of me is the town of Dover where many years ago the abalone divers had FTTP installed in their homes. That is to be removed and replaced by FW and satellite as part of the original NBN Plan.

      So, instead of blaming Mathew42 for "fuck[ing] the betterment of this country in both the business and personal broadband sectors", why don't you blame NBN Co or the ALP who planned this monstrosity? I'm quite sure they had far more to do with it than Mathew42.

      * Mostly I get 10 Mb/s these days. Fortunately I chose EscapeNet. I nearly went with IINet as they delivered the full 12 Mb/s, but at a higher cost. My son told me on Saturday that since TPG purchased IINet that speeds have plummeted to much lower than what I have. So it goes...

      http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3483466236

      1. mathew42
        Flame

        Re: Country miss out again

        6 years ago, I pointed out that for many rural townships where FTTP was deemed uneconomical by Labor that FTTN would deliver better results. The main part of many rural townships is commonly within 1-2km of the exchange so FTTN will deliver better performance than wireless.

        Of course this ignores the bigger issue that inadequate and/or expensive backhaul is the limiting factor for internet in many rural townships. Solve that and I expect the locals would quickly solve the problem of fibre to the community centres and main streets.

        It is people like this that are the reason I quote 79%, not myself. When NBNCo come rolling down the street it is likely the neighbours will have already joined together for a FoD upgrade and that almost all of us will write it off on tax.

    2. mathew42
      Flame

      Re: Oh not your 1% entitlement bullshit

      > FFS Mathew42 how about you take your 79% broken record figure and go play it somewhere else.

      Because this is the reality of just how badly Labor screwed up the NBN.

      I find it almost ludicrous that if speed tiers were removed on FTTN, that a minimum of 79% of customers would see a speed increase over FTTP and for some that would be as large as 7 times faster.

      > Of one of the business sector that I have tech experience with, if 10Gbps was available then 99% would sign up immediately.

      At what price? If price wasn't an object then these businesses would have either:

      1. Moved to a business park / CBD with 10Gbps fibre

      2. Arranged for installation of fibre.

      In the real world since 1Gbps plans were first offered by NBNCo in December 2013, not a single RSP has offered a speed faster than 100Mbps for sale. Considering that there is a massive advantage for the first person to offer 1Gbps plans.

      This suggests to me that the acceptable price point in the business sector you mention is well under $1000/month.

      > Why is your head buried so far up your arse that you can't see the benefit of FTTP for the whole of Australia?

      The only people who will truly benefit from 1Gbps FTTP are the top 1% who can afford to pay significant monthly access fees for 1Gbps services. Labor's plan required that ARPU rise from the initial $32/month to well north of $100/month. These people don't care about the cost of FTTP versus FoD because it is a fraction of their monthly income, significantly less than 1% of the value of their house and either paid for by the company or at worst a tax deduction.

      When you provide evidence that the NBN will provide the truly fast >100Mbps services that enable effective video conferencing and other services to people who are mobility challenged and financially challenged then I'll stop quoting 79% at 25Mbps. In the meantime I'll quote Quigley to explain the difference between spin and reality:

      Low-income users denied NBN benefits

      "With the quality of high definition that you've got, being able to come across this sort of a network, you could easily have a quick hook-up and actually work out, 'OK, do I need to take him to hospital, or could we keep him at home?'," Mr Smith said.

      But when The Australian approached Senator Conroy and Mr Quigley to describe the level of service users could expect at lesser network speeds, they said high-definition video conferencing was not possible on the NBN's most basic package.

      "You certainly can't do high-definition video service on a 1 megabits per second upstream -- it's impossible," Mr Quigley said.

      1. Jasonk

        Re: Oh not your 1% entitlement bullshit

        "I find it almost ludicrous that if speed tiers were removed on FTTN, that a minimum of 79% of customers would see a speed increase over FTTP and for some that would be as large as 7 times faster."

        Lol no speed teirs on FTTP and it would be at least 10 times faster than what FTTN could ever get to. Or are you trying to claim copper is faster than fibre.

        But only 7% on FTTN are on 100Mbps compared to 15.7% on FTTP. By 2020 MTM was to have 22% on 100Mbps on FTTN. What a failed this mess is.

        "In the real world since 1Gbps plans were first offered by NBNCo in December 2013, not a single RSP has offered a speed faster than 100Mbps for sale. Considering that there is a massive advantage for the first person to offer 1Gbps plans."

        NBN is not selling 1Gbps anymore.

        "When you provide evidence that the NBN will provide the truly fast >100Mbps services that enable effective video conferencing and other services to people who are mobility challenged and financially challenged then I'll stop quoting 79% at 25Mbps. In the meantime I'll quote Quigley to explain the difference between spin and reality:".

        Lol then why are you not quoting the current spin with the MTM expecting 30% on 100Mbps by 2020 1% on 1Gbps (which they are no selling anymore) by 2020. 71% on FTTN are on 25Mbps.

        1. mathew42
          Childcatcher

          Re: Oh not your 1% entitlement bullshit

          > Lol no speed teirs on FTTP and it would be at least 10 times faster than what FTTN could ever get to. Or are you trying to claim copper is faster than fibre.

          I'm not claiming that copper is faster than fibre, except when you have a Labor government in power.

          > NBN is not selling 1Gbps anymore.

          What evidence do you have for that 1Gbps is not available? Skywest are purchasing 250/100Mbps and throttling it to 100/100Mbps.

          > Lol then why are you not quoting the current spin with the MTM

          Plenty of others are spending time on that. My concern is with the seemingly rational people who are easily distracted by bright shiney fibre in the same way that 2 year olds are distracted by a lollipop.

          1. Jasonk

            Re: Oh not your 1% entitlement bullshit

            "I'm not claiming that copper is faster than fibre, except when you have a Labor government in power."

            With 85% on FTTN selecting 25Mvos or less and only 7% on 100Mbps. Is lower figures than FTTP. Lol wrong it's not faster.

            "What evidence do you have for that 1Gbps is not available? Skywest are purchasing 250/100Mbps and throttling it to 100/100Mbps"

            http://www.nbnco.com.au/sell-nbn-services/products-services-pricing/Product-identifier/wholesale-speeds.html.

            I didn't know 250/100 was 1Gbps speeds lol.

            "Plenty of others are spending time on that. My concern is with the seemingly rational people who are easily distracted by bright shiney fibre in the same way that 2 year olds are distracted by a lollipop."

            What BS you claimed 79Mbps average for FTTN when most of that was FTTB. That fact you keep quoting labor figures which when they have beefing rolling out the network for 3 years. Yet the figure you keep quoting the current MTM have even worst figures but you are fine with it.

            Again I will ask you what is better value an up to 25Mbps network which requires substantial cost to upgrade when the demand gets more for $56B. Or as you claiming a 1Gbps network for only $64B.

            Also why do some have to move or pay FOD for better speeds. HFC getting upgrade to 3.1 that can deliver above the 100Mbps. But people on FTTN has to pay even more that get that same service. The fact you want to keep low incomes on sub standard service.

            1. mathew42
              FAIL

              Re: Oh not your 1% entitlement bullshit

              > I didn't know 250/100 was 1Gbps speeds lol.

              But it is faster than the 100Mbps which is the limit on the page you linked to.

              Quoting from "Home > Sell nbn™ services > Products, services and pricing"

              http://www.nbnco.com.au/sell-nbn-services/products-services-pricing.html

              We have created a single product construct across the fibre, fixed wireless and satellite technologies called the nbn™ Ethernet Bitstream Service (nbn™ Ethernet). This provides peak wholesale downstream speeds ranging from 12 Mbps up to 1 Gbps and upload speeds ranging from 1 Mbps to 400 Mbps, depending on the delivery technology utilised*.

              For actual pricing: http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco2/documents/sfaa-wba2-product-catalogue-price-list_20150201.pdf

              > Yet the figure you keep quoting the current MTM have even worst figures but you are fine with it.

              I never said I'm fine with it. I said that for 79% connected at 25Mbps it won't make a noticeable difference. Since yourself and many others who I'm assuming expect to be in the top 5% and willing to pay $200+/month for internet don't have an issue with 79% on 25Mbps I'm content to pay for FoD and write it off on tax.

              > The fact you want to keep low incomes on sub standard service.

              Speed tiers is what is keeping the 79% on a sub standard FTTP service. Changing to FTTN or HFC hasn't changed that. Changing back to FTTP won't change that.

              1. Jasonk

                Re: Oh not your 1% entitlement bullshit

                So 1Gbps devices for only 20% of the network.

                So with only 7% of FTTN customer connecting to 100Mbps and 85% on 25Mbps or less. It that due to it can't deliver speeds claimed. We should have stuck to adsl2 since it delivers 1Mbps less than what most people are choosing now. What a waste $56B for an increase of 1Mbps. FTTN is an even bigger failure than FTTP going by your logic.

                Sorry why should my taxes help you claim FOD. People should be paying for it shouldn't they.

                Well something has changed since 100Mbps 15.7% on FTTP and only 7% on FTTN.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Oh not your 1% entitlement bullshit

                  Just to add something to this conversation. I think it should be noted that 25mbps is the base speed for Bigpond NBN plans. It's actually quite hard to find anything on the Bigpond site related to NBN speeds and when you do they use terms like 'Super Speed Boost' and the like. A significant portion of Australian internet users are Bigpond customers and a large number of them probably know little more than 'You need to change to NBN as we're cutting off the copper. Your internet is going to be faster but that's all the information we have for you".

                  Also, there is an ISP in WA that offers higher than 100mbps speeds: http://node1.com.au/business_nbn.php

                  They're tiny but still offering them.

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