Fucking moron
putting volunteer rescue workers lives in danger
A Brighton woman made it to the peak of Ben Nevis wearing shorts and trainers and wielding a selfie stick, but had to be helped off the Britain’s highest mountain by rescuers after it turned out it’s still winter at 4,411 feet. Sarah Albone, a 28 year old from Brighton, made a spontaneous decision last Saturday to interrupt …
So you've never done anything on the spur of the moment
There is a distinct difference between spur of the moment and Darwin award.
She should have been charged for the time and resources of all rescue services involved on a punitive tariff.
Disclaimer - I spent a few years training as a rescue service volunteer (not in the UK) while in high school, I am qualified to do that and still have the old overalls with the edelweiss insignia somewhere. So I am probably a bit biased. Just a bit. Actualy, no, she wielded a self-infatuation "cretin attached" tool. No, not a bit. A lot.
""There is a distinct difference between spur of the moment and Darwin award."
Indeed, however that difference is often chance."
Only because whatever fucking stupid thing they've done turns out not to kill them. In general it's safe to say that the more egregiously fucking stupid it is, the lower the odds on survival. The fact of its innate and undeniable fucking stupidity, and the fact of that person's innate and undeniable fucking stupidity in doing whatever it was on the spur of the moment, are unchanged.
I'd also note that Ben Nevis typically takes around 8 hours, and you'll be seriously cold a long way before the top. It might be spur of the moment at the start, but there's a shitload of opportunity along the way to realise "this was a fucking stupid idea".
Read the article you tool.
She was not rescued by mountain rescue, the people who helped her down were already up there having just ascended via the north face (braver than I am).
So she was helpped down by people who were already up there and were going to be walking down anyway. She just tagged along (well there was some sharing of clothing and supplies apparently) so who exactly needs to be financially compensated for this?
As a side I've been up BN a few times, the most memorable was in 2013 when it was 30+ degrees most of the way up and dropped to below 0 during the last few hundred metres ascent.
From what she said she jsut kept going while the weather was good... It's easy to get carried away in a situation like that and keep going for the top without thinking about the return journey.
She is just lucky she didn't get too close to the edge go through a cornice.
"...30+ degrees most of the way up and dropped to below 0 during the last few hundred metres ascent..."
Yup, been there; it's one seriously weird mountain. Early summertime walk, set off accompanied by bright sunshine and pleasant warmth, was in full waterproofs, hat, gloves and ski goggles (on account of the driving ice particles propelled by the galeforce wind) at the top. Staggered down out of the zero-visibility zone to encounter a foreign tourist (German, natch) heading up garbed in the proverbial t-shirt, shorts and sandals, equipped with a sandwich and pack of crisps in a carrier bag. Guess he might be still up there somewhere...
Disclaimer - I spent a few years training as a rescue service volunteer (not in the UK) while in high school, I am qualified to do that and still have the old overalls with the edelweiss insignia somewhere. So I am probably a bit biased. Just a bit.
I went up a 3km alp in '96 in shorts, trainers and a cagoule, with a camera, a mars bar and a can of coke. Breathing was beginning to be fun at 1.5km! Had to climb the last hundred ft or so and that was hairy in places. Got to the glacier at the top - then the cloud rolled in.
Great adventure, the like of which I hadn't had since I was a kid! I'd do it again, but with trousers, boots, and a jacket that didn't make me pour sweat - if 20 years older I'm still capable of it, which I suspect I might not be.
Once below the cloud - where the alpine flowers were but still above the treeline I stopped for a drink from a spring - Evian at source, I guess. Looked to the right at a line of goats on near-vertical escarpment. A couple of days later went up another alp by rail and there while waiting for the train to go back down saw lightning hit the ground 50ft or so in front of me!
I suppose the difference is I would either get down myself or die trying. They could leave my corpse as a warning to others.
Heh, yeah. As an American, 4,411* feet doesn't sound like a big deal. I've climbed bigger mountains in a summer afternoon in shorts and t-shirt with nothing but a bottle of water and a few snacks. In summer, mind you.
*I'm sure it's still impressive, and I would definitely climb it if I ever have the opportunity.
Life is all about spur of the moment fuck ups.
My fuck up was getting pissed, carrying on drinking in the morning and booking a flight to Manilla then waking up half trashed in business class, landing in Taiwan wondering what the fuck was going on only to do the walk of shame through Taipei airport for my connecting flight wearing nothing but a t-shirt and three quarter length pants with no luggage...
I was there three weeks in the end staying with my brother, came back and sorted everything out.
I would say I've grown up, which I have but that was only a couple of years ago...
One day I would rather say I lived rather than existed.
This woman messed up but that is all she is guilty of, I say fair play for attempting it without the foresight, if she did it again it would be a different opinion.
1) It's not the height, it's the fact that you're pretty much at sea level when you start that makes it a proper climb.
2) You're on the coast. Facing the ocean, with wet air hitting it and going straight up. It's more changeable than, something very changeable indeed.
3) It's spring. Lovely at the bottom. Suddenly lethal at the top.
British mountains are more dangerous than they look, and spring is the most dangerous time because inexperienced people get tempted up, and it all goes hypothermia.
I used to bounce around on mountains, on my own, all year long. Loved it. But I had the gear, the knowledge and fitness. Sadly my knees are shot now - I can go up OK, but coming down became agony.
Coast at the base of the mountain makes a huge difference.
In Cape Town there is a moderately serious (3500ft) mountain (Table Mountain) where every winter some unprepared idiot gets lost in the cloud at the top and falls down a gorge. It does not even snow but if you go wandering about with no clue what you are doing, you can die of it.
Just because the weather is mild at sea level tells you nothing about the top.
*(well most years anyway)
Ben Nevis is not quite 57° north. The southern end of Alaska is a bit north of 51°.
I've been half way up Pike's Peak in the spring. It's nothing compared to the Highlands of Scotland at this time of year.
I've never made it to the summit of the Ben. 1st attempt we came along the Càrn Mòr Dearg Arête in glorious sunshine, got as far of the abseil posts, saw the clouds rolling in, abandoned the climb and descended down the side of the water slide. 2nd time we'd done Number 4 gully, which was sheltered from the wind, but on the plateau the conditions were so unpleasant we made a direct line for the zig-zags.
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"Heh, yeah. As an American, 4,411* feet doesn't sound like a big deal. I've climbed bigger mountains in a summer afternoon in shorts and t-shirt with nothing but a bottle of water and a few snacks. In summer, mind you."
Yeah. But worth remembering that Ben Nevis is like being a few 100 miles north of Edmonton, Canada in March at 4,411ft. It''s a shade under 57oNorth
> Disclaimer - I spent a few years training as a rescue service volunteer (not in the UK)
Well, as it happens, I am also a trained and experienced rescuer. Yours seems to be the Swiss philosophy, aka survival of the richest.
Where I was a volunteer, rescues are never charged (or at least they weren't in my time), on the basis that you cannot put a price on human life.
If it wasn't an actual rescue situation, such as people who were simply to tired to get back off the mountain but not in any actual danger, the chaps on the phone may have limited themselves to give them advice (or a bollocking, depending on who picked up the call), but from my further experience in the emergency services, as a professional in this case, I would say that if you are going to be judgemental about your "customers", then you should not be there in the first place.
>She should have been charged
Our local rescue services in BC have time and again advised against billing the clueless. Their rationale? Knowledge of pending costs would cause people to delay calling for help and instead try to make it out on their own. Which usually makes thing worse for everyone by making them even more lost.
Time and again, moron commentards suggest invoicing lost folk, claiming to speak on behalf of the rescue people.
I specificallly have no opinion on "the dozy mare". Live and let live.
I do have a, negative, opinion of those who advocate charging for rescue ops. For the reason I mention - it doesn't work as a useful deterrent.
Now "doesn't work" is pretty high on my list of drawbacks, as I suspect it is for many IT folk ;-)
So you've never done anything on the spur of the moment.
There's nothing wrong with spontaneity. What is very, very wrong is heading off into a situation when you don't have the first f*#$%ing clue what you're up against. This story serves to illustrate the saying, "fools rush in..." extremely well.
I've climbed Ben Nevis in mid-summer and there was snow, thick fog, and a wind chill to well below zero*. That I came back without assistance is because I knew those conditions were a possibility and I was prepared for it. Nobody should be up there at this time of year without survival gear and at least some training.
* On the plus side, at least there weren't any midges
"There's nothing wrong with spontaneity."
Just with understanding what the word means, I guess?
Oh please. I can decide, on the spur of the moment, to go climb a very big, tall mountain, and because I am an experienced mountaineer I know I have a reasonable chance of coming back alive.
Equally I could decide, on the spur of the moment, to swim the Channel, which I've never done and have no idea how to do. That would be bloody stupid, wouldn't it?
"That would be bloody stupid, wouldn't it?"
Well, yes, it would be stupid. You're still conflating spontaneity - that is to say, acting upon sudden impulses or taking unplanned action - with considered decision making as to whether it is sensible to do a thing, or if you are even capable of it so...
Mixed on this. I live near the peaks and it can often be sunny down in the valley and you will see cars from the tops coming by with an inch or two of snow, it was lovely a couple of days ago, a couple of hundred feet higher and two miles away they got what looked like almost 3 inches of snow in the space of four hours.
I think a lot of people who do not live near places like this, especially if you come from the nice flat South where I am originally from don't get how harsh the difference can be, or how changeable so quickly, or how dangerous it can be. Really would not suprise me if she just though hmmn very big hill, rather than thinking it could turn into mini Alpine adventure.
On balance I would say it was a silly thing to do, but I am willing to forgive because of ignorance and also because they are aware enough to realise their stupidity.
If it was someone who does know about these sort of conditions and still risked a quick trip I would have a lot less sympathy.
At the same time, yeah stuff like this is what Darwin awards are about. :)
> What is very, very wrong is heading off into a situation when you don't have the first f*#$%ing clue what you're up against.
If you haven't a clue what you're up against, then how would you know that you are unprepared? Did you really never find yourself in such a situation?
Come on, it's a wonder that most of us make it to adult life looking back at the incredibly idiotic things we used to do as kids.
The mountains, like the sea, deserts, or jungle, are a world of their own but that is not necessarily general knowledge amongst the people who do not live there. All those things may look very inoffensive at first sight, or when you read a book or watch a photo of them.
If you haven't a clue what you're up against, then how would you know that you are unprepared?
Because it's a 4000+ft mountain at 57 degrees N on the west coast of Scotland with absolutely nothing to stop the Atlantic weather barrelling in. In March, for pity's sake. None of this is secret information.
In other words: Common Sense.
"If you haven't a clue what you're up against, then how would you know that you are unprepared? Did you really never find yourself in such a situation?"
Oh, do FUCK OFF. It's not like "dicking around in the Scottish mountains is a dangerous idea" is such a well-kept secret...
"Pretty lucky really."
Very lucky. Because if she'd not been found there'd have been a big turnout of mountain rescue volunteers. Given that she'd diverted from her previous plans they might even have been turned out in the wrong place and spent even longer than they otherwise might by looking in the wrong place.
"Well, no-one from Mountain Rescue was actually involved, and no-one other than her was ever in danger."
AFAICS the only reason Mountain Rescue wasn't involved was that she was rescued before anyone realised she was missing. It's not clear whether she told anyone what she was doing so it might have been a good while before anyone knew she was missing. Had she not been lucky enough to have been found a good many people might have spent a lot of time looking for her in the wrong place. But hey, it turned out OK by sheer good luck so it doesn't matter that she did everything wrong she could have possibly done.
> putting volunteer rescue workers lives in danger
a. We're volunteers, as you correctly state.
b. We won't put ourselves in danger. The first rule of rescue, as anyone who has done a basic half-a-morning first aid course should know, is "do not put yourself in danger".
c. If you actually read the article (it may have been edited though), it says she was helped by other ramblers¹ she came across.
d. It appears that she wasn't an experienced mountaineer so it is understandable she might have not realised the extent to which she was unprepared. In which case, I do not see why you would call her a "moron". Even very safe and experienced people make errors of judgement out there.
¹ Sorry, I'm part Scottish but I live next to the Alps. A mere thousand metres does not register as a "climb" around here², unless it's properly vertical.
² In seriousness, latitude does make a huge difference, and the weather at Ben Nevis is comparable to a much taller mountain in the Alps, but that shouldn't stop me from taking the piss.
"¹ Sorry, I'm part Scottish but I live next to the Alps. A mere thousand metres does not register as a "climb" around here², unless it's properly vertical.
² In seriousness, latitude does make a huge difference, and the weather at Ben Nevis is comparable to a much taller mountain in the Alps, but that shouldn't stop me from taking the piss.
Nope, they where Climbers. They had just got the the top via the north face. i.e. vertical Ice climb.
"c. If you actually read the article (it may have been edited though), it says she was helped by other ramblers¹ she came across."
And if she hadn't had that stroke of utter fucking luck, she'd have been on the selfie device yammering for someone to come and rescue her.
Or she'd be dead.
WOULDN'T SHE?
I'm from daahn saahf and clueless.
I don't even know where Ben Nevis is and have no experience of mountain-climbing /anywhere/.
But I haven't been living under a rock either, so even I know Ben Nevis/Dartmoor/a-few-ther-places is dangerous for exactly this reason - because (every couple of years) there's a report in the media/press about (yet another) Darwin Award candidate.
... a large donation to the local Mountain Rescue.
Despite what people think, MR is staffed by volunteers (albeit with occasional central-government funding for equipment) - they're risking their lives for no monetary reward, so you could at least do them the courtesy of being in an emergency that you didn't directly cause*.
For anyone else considering such a bloody stupid idea as this:
1. Don't. You could quite likely die.
2. If you insist, phone someone BEFORE YOU START, and tell them where you're starting from, where you're heading, and when you expect to be back. That way, when your brain stops working from hypothermia, at least someone lucid will realise that you've got yourself into deep shit.
but, most importantly:
3. Don't. You could quite likely die.
(* words aren't bad enough for the people who then sue their rescuers for "inadequate care" while saving their self-important lives from the results of their own stupidity)
I'd happily donate a little extra for the helicopter fuel, etc, required to return such fuds to their exact location prior to being so rudely interrupted by those pesky rescuers with their "inadequate care".
Still, to be fair to the main protagonist in this tale, she at least realises that she became that tit that all proper climbers talk about. Hopefully a much wiser individual for the experience.
"If there were no morons there wouldn't be much rescuing to do."
I don't think this is actually true. Even experienced climbers occasionally get the weather wrong, overestimate their abilities, or just get caught in freak accidents. Morons rarely try to climb serious mountains. I have never had to call out the rescue services, but that was due to luck.
At one time the chance of dying while attempting to climb Everest was about 20%. Not many of those dead climbers were morons.
> I don't think this is actually true.
Exactly. As you go on to say, mountaineering is a great exercise in terms of striking that fine balance between residual risk and costs (in a large sense) without a whole lot of wiggle room either side. Which is why we like it (apart from the views, the crisp air, the solitude, the flora, the fauna, and the actual exercise).
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Strictly speaking you are correct.
OTOH, the OP did refer specifically to Natural Selection which, whilst not Evolution itself, does influence the outcome of the evolutionary process to no small degree.
So, erm, yes, actually it does in the broader sense.
> Natural selection should have taken care of this, but instead the inferior genes remain in the gene pool.
I hate being gratuitously abusive, and I normally refrain from insulting people, especially when it's not face-to-face, but you're asking for it.
So, you are talking about your mother, right?
Interesting. Two thumbs down for what I thought was a simple statement of fact. The OP wrote
"Natural selection should have taken care of this, but instead the inferior genes remain in the gene pool."
But natural selection doesn't do what we think it should. It is just a mechanism with no thought, no teleology, no priorities. If someone goes up a mountain quite unprepared but makes it down again due to a combination of luck and physical fitness - she is obviously very physically fit - that's selection, because a weaker person might well have got to the top and died there. It's like warfare; some people survive, some don't, and we don't know exactly why; it could be random but we can be sure that if there are any factors that benefit survival they will get selected for, no matter how far down in the noise they may be.
Talking about inferior genes remaining in the gene pool just shows an ignorance of how selection works. Inferior compared to what? To someone who lives in a basement, never gets out and never reproduces? In selection terms, success is reproduction of offspring who reproduce in turn. Intelligence is only fitness if it results in more offspring in successive generations.
Intelligence is so obviously /not/ a survival trait in the human species that I'm constantly surprised it is deemed to have any value at all.
Of course stupidity isn't a survival trait in the human species either - or we wouldn't be shitting in our own home.*
We're not even an evolutionary dead-end but an extinction-level event in slow-motion - we'll take everything else out before we finally die out ourselves.
* don't talk to me about doorsteps: the human species doesn't even bother to go /that/ far.
fucking invoice should be sent to the woman.
Respect in as much as she actually realised what a "p****" she was.
Did national news cover this story? Such potential fools should be aware, it is not their own life they risk. But the lives of rescue service personnel too when embarking on such a venture that would have been severely punished by natural selection in the past.
Even people who go out well prepared potentially put the lives of others at risk. So who's worse, those who knowingly endanger the lives of others or someone who just got carried away and learnt a lesson. By her own words she's unlikely to do the same thing again, others do it over and over.
No doubt the voting would have been different if some caring soul had died because of this persons lack of foresight. And don't we all put the lives of those that care about our fellow humans at risk with every ill thought out step we take?
I did misread the article and was under the assumption that rescue service personnel were dispatched.
Considering two seasonaed and experienced climbers were carried off that very same mountain in body bags just last week, having been missing since February, she really is lucky to be alive. And even more lucky she came accross the other climbing party. Had they not by chance been at that exact location at that exact time she would no doubt be missing, and I doubt anyone would even have known she had been there. 20 metres difference in location in Ben Nevis weather is the difference between finding someone and not finding them.
Most likely the climbers who helped save her will find in time that it makes a much better story when chatting with ones friends years later than just yet another mountain climb story where all went good.
Being able to play the hero role even if it's because of other people's stupidity often offers it's own rewards in terms of good memories, entertaining stories & very often an overall feeling of happiness at having pushed the scales of Karma in your favour.
"While her adventure planning left something to be desired, the contrite Albone was eminently self-aware reportedly writing, “I was such a massive p**** and I'm so sorry. Not only do I never ever want to put myself or anyone else in that sort of situation again - I also would like to be able to help someone the way you all helped me...I was that t** that all proper climbers talk about.”
We’re not totally sure what the asterisks stand for."
'Prick' and 'twat' respectively. No need to thank me.
Edit: someone above suggested 'tit', which respects the number of asterisks. I think that twat delivers a more appropriate opprobrium.
Thanks for that.
Others here might find it enlightening too.
I particularly liked "your xperience is the sum of your near misses! "
Respect to all.
I've done Snowdon in trainers on the spur of the moment on a nice midsummer day. I knew it was daft, havng done Snowdon twice before in better prepared circumstances. I was with my equally unprepared brother - we'd gone to Llanberis to see the amazing pumped storage hydro at Electric Mountain but decided the weather was so nice we'd save Electric Mountain for a rainy day and go up the hill instead. I won't be doing it again, but I really really must get a proper tour of Electric Mountain soon.
Happy endings are good.
While I am inclined to agree that she did a Dumb Thing™, I have to disagree with those that call her a moron as she seems to have learned from her misadventure. She has recognized that it was a Dumb Thing™, even apologizing to her rescuers; and is taking steps to not repeat said Dumb Thing™. Not only has she said she's sticking to smaller mountains, but she is also learning about mountaineering so that if she does decide to go again, she won't be the bother she was this time.
"A smart person learns from their mistakes; a wise person from the mistakes of others." - Unknown
That climbing forum shows that she actually has gained reasonable respect from the community for being honest and humble and admitting her mistakes - which everyone makes. Far from the bashing some are giving her here and in the newspapers, they are generally wishing her luck:
For example, not an isolated comment from someone called wercat:
"A common saying in mountaineering about experienced climbers goes somenthing like "Experience is just the sum of all the near misses we've had". In other words we learn by making sometimes serious mistakes. Obviously you've made a splendid and extreme start in this respect but you'll find the mountains a great place to make further mistakes in - just make sure they are on a smaller scale! Good luck with learning the skills and report back your adventures!"
> That climbing forum shows that she actually has gained reasonable respect from the community for being honest and humble and admitting her mistakes - which everyone makes.
Yup. I guess you can see which ones of us here are climbers and which ones aren't.
Moron my arse. Morons are those who talk and judge without having the slightest idea what they're talking about. Of course, they're too stupid to realise they don't know so they think they're the shits.
meh... she did something dumb, she got lucky and got away with it apart from bruised pride... the important point I think is that she's intelligent enough to fully realise it, apologies for it and then get on with life...
If your preaching about this incident I imagine you've never really had much of a life...
Mountain rescue need to shut their pie holes and rescue or bugger off if they don't want to do it.
For all the rest that wine about people needing rescue then I, as a taxpayer, resent having to pay for sports injuries sustained by their snotty children on a Saturday morning. Certainly not for some 14 yo horserider who is inexperienced and snaps their neck. Parents place their children in danger. They should pay.
Mountain rescue risk their lives, in incredibly harsh conditions, I was in Scotland a few years back when a winchman was lost on a chopper (at a sea rescue but same chopper pilots as far as I know) after cutting the bale to stop risking the chopper. I was supposed to be getting on a ship in that weather and the ship came into port with crew looking really scared*. I reckon if they say they cannot fly then they cannot fly.
*We actually looked at the crew and said fuck that, we will wait for a better day and went to the pub.
May I point out that mountain rescue didn't rescue her. They also are a voluntary service, and a charity. No money from the tax payers for these girls and boys. All fun raised.
I have also never heard a single MRT member complain about having to rescue someone. Even the ill prepared. Although I did get moaned at for finding the most awkward place to put myself while being a victim for a training exercise.
Yes, the girl had a huge attack of the kind of thinking (or rather lack thereof) that begets Darwin awards.
However, not only did she miraculously survive, she was at least bright enough to realise by just how thin a margin she remained amongst the living and she is now committed to train to become as much as a help to others as she was at the receiving end of herself.
The latter shows at least style, and an attitude I can live with. I don't know about you, but I too have made mistakes that I later look back on and think "OK, glad I got away with that one, but let's not do that EVER again." so it would be hypocritical to be too harsh on her. To then commit to helping others is cool, and shows a frankly refreshing absence of that weird sense of entitlement that some people appear to have developed.
Silly cow, yes, but good on her for taking a hint from that experience. There is hope yet.
She's lucky, and also smart enough to realize what she did.
I've spent an unexpected bivvie night due to underestimating a mountain route, and done a number of other things the could have turned out badly. In my case a lack of intelligence is perhaps ameliorated by a certain amount of low animal cunning, so I've never been "in trouble" in the sense of not knowing which way to go or not knowing what to do next. But you learn by taking chances, especially if they demonstrate the potential consequences of your actions.
All this stuff about "fucking moron" and "confiscate her legs so she can never hike again" (OK, nobody said that really) is balderdash. She learned. Good. Some mountaineers got to help. Good. Nobody died. Good.
In my case a lack of intelligence is perhaps ameliorated by a certain amount of low animal cunning
It's not Friday yet, but now I want to know. What do you do? Mark your route by peeing on the occasional tree? No wait, that's not animal cunning but the average Brit, post pub visit..
I would try for something witty, which is probably what you'd appreciate, but see disclaimer about intelligence...
Animal cunning is just the usual stuff. For off-trail routes, pay damned close attention to direction of slopes, stream drainages, minor landmarks, sun position (actually, direction of your shadow is good), yadda yadda. Stay off the steep eroded sides of moraines, or rocks will fall and break all the bits of you. Kick hard going up steep snow, stomp your heels in going down. And climbing up rock faces is easier than climbing back down. Always. Rime ice and verglas make everything worse. No, you can't follow an accurate compass course 5 km through thick forest to find a small lake. Do something else instead. Yes, rattlesnakes hunt frogs in the tall grass along desert streams, so your neck hairs prickle a little when you decide to walk there. Etc, etc ad nauseum.
Well, you asked.
Well, you asked.
Nice summary, thanks. That does illustrate a degree of learned expertise though (and common sense, that misnamed rare quality) but I see why you label that animal cunning rather than intelligence.
Thanks for the answer. I learned something new (mainly that I'm probably best stick to using a climbing wall to rehabilitate my muscles :) )
You could do very small expeditions on well-marked roads or paths to an official shelter site. In the beginning stay there for cooking some tea, then try to make dinner, then perhaps sleep overnight. Tea is always needed for making "found" water drinkable using the rather cheap and unbreakable Trangia "kitchen".
"Micro-expeditions" is a good way to get experience with handling nature. Keeping the car at a distance of 1 hour of easy navigation and relaxed walking takes the stress of being "lost" away. Having an exit plan, it is just a personal preference to put up a with a wet night in the forest, because some moron forgot to pack the tent, rather than a survival issue. One can choose to suck it up - or - be a wuss ;-)
Two of those cheap 3 x 3 meter light-weight tarps sold at DIY stores and some string can make a decent shelter (bivouac) for 2 persons. Here (Sweden) we would bring a small axe too. All that is really needed for a 2 days hike will fit in a very small backpack.
Anyway, all the planning and doing of the little - totally safe - "expeditions" & "picnics" will build up real skills and confidence that will be very useful if one decide to do "a BIG expedition" (or eventually manage to get lost for real, or ditch the car in some god forsaken road without mobile cover, or is surprised by weather on a Scottish mountain. I have personally encountered a real snowstorm on Dartmoor in May while driving there).
Ben Nevis is a piece of piss to get to the top of. For anyone that's never been up it (I suspect many of the armchair critics here), there's a well marked, defined path that leads right up to the trig stone at the top - there's no actual climbing of any sort involved. Just walking up a hill.
Last time I did it, I had walking trousers, t-shirt and a base layer top on under that. Probably around the same time actually. Total whiteout conditions at the top and a good few feet of snow. Great fun. I sledged on my arse back down a few hundred feet before the path became visible again.
Highly recommend it.
Most of it is "easy", however the conditions on the summit as you point out are winter like at the best of times, with cornices and deep snow its very easy to get too close to the edge and realise that you're actually standing on nothing but compacted snow and air...
It's not the best place to be if you don't know where it's safe to walk.. Or if you're only wearing a T-shirt and shorts.
I went up in mid summer a few years ago (hottest day of the year if I recall) and it was still below zero on the top.. It's weather changes like this that catch the unprepared out, so you stating "its a piece of piss" is a bit misleading.
> Highly recommend it.
This is how you recognise the ones who've got the t-shirt.
You go to someone with your near-death story:
* If they tell you how stupid and irresponsible it was, they've never been there and they never will.
* If they take the piss and offer a toast for "the first time of many, I'm sure", you know you're amongst peers. You also know you'll be buying the rounds.
Why not - it's been done before (7h23mins up, less than 2hrs down) :
1928 - http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/angus-the-mearns/memento-of-famous-ben-nevis-exploit-to-be-auctioned-in-angus-1.70708
Note that he was inspired by a Pathe film of someone who'd done it twice in "an American Ford" - so I'm guessing a Model T ....
EDIT - found another link - it was a 1911 Model T : http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/may-1996/74/top-ben-nevis
There have been a fair few deaths this winter in the Scottish Mountain with some very experienced climbers will all the right gear. The mountains up here are brutal and can show in July and August and are very dangerous. She is very lucky she was found and helped with climbers putting their own lives at risk.
Just as Darwin was about to do his job, some well meaning higher IQ people comes and ruins it all.
That's why Darwin has such a difficult task in today's world.
I've even done it myself, when I pointed out to some parents that if their small daughter fell into the canal they probably would never see her again. Bleeding hart getting in the way of nature's natural course again.
You do get many idiots on mountains, I remember many years ago (when I was at least half fit) returning from climbing the Ben in February, about 4:00 pm, just getting dark, meeting a group who were just starting to climb, they asked me "How far is it to the top?" They didn't realise that it was at least a 4 hour climb, it would be pitch black in another 30 minutes and at that time of the year they would probably die as they were wearing trainers and jeans, no rucksacks so no extra clothes, food etc.
Look this is pretty simple. Here in the nice USA, this is similar to a hike up the mist trail, which if done in the spring (around this time of year) will only get you a little moist.
Me? Yes, I've done the hike to the top of the falls (about 5000 feet), and I did get a little wet in the process. The dangerous part is the top of the falls, which if you get too close to the water might cause you to win a Darwin award if you aren't careful (several haven't been!)
" Here in the nice USA, this is similar to a hike up the mist trail, "
no its not similar
the Scots mountains, especially Ben Nevis on the west coast, are exposed to extreme oceanic weather changes that can turn a warm sunny day into an impassible snowstorm in minutes. With a return trip thats going to last all day, its impossible to be sure what the weather is going to do.
By comparison your Nevada misty mountains are stuck in the middle of the continent in a stable weather environment with relatively few surprises
Kids today are so protected from taking risk they don't learn to identify potential danger from a young age, apart from stranger danger.... Then these kids grow up and enter the real world and think nothing can touch them. That's when you get situations such as what happened to the young lady. Now multiply that by the number of her generation and you can begin to see the potential problems for society. No idea about risk or potential danger
The dangerous sports that I wouldn't do are the ones that don't look like much actual fun to me. Like bungie jumping. But I love fast motorcycles! And I'm willing to drive a rocket car if they're short of volunteers! There are a no. of other dangerous things I have done or would merrily do.
Not only do quite a few people have some guts (and some leave them splattered over the landscape! Heavens!) - but pretty much everything that's ever been achieved by the race up until all you had to do was sit in front of a computer and write code, was achieved by people throwing quite a lot of caution to the wind for an allegedly irresponsible pay-off, and that most of them would not have done did they not enjoy the risk.
I can understand people with families not doing such things. But if you're just chickenshit, any chance you could stop trying to turn that around to make yourselves feel noble for it?
"...Ben Nevis... ...4,411 feet..." Nearly die.
Hey. You're doing it wrong.
Pikes Peak, CO, USA, 14,110 feet (!). Drive up. Park. Buy some doughnuts. Browse around. Drive back down. Turn around, before the exiting the toll booth. Drive back up, because it's fun. Etc.
Mount Washington, NH, USA, 6,288 feet. Drive up. Park. Have some snacks. Browse around. Drive back down to the smell of burning brakes (steep!).
Whiteface Mountain, NY. USA, 4,865 feet. Drive up. Park. Take the ELEVATOR (!) to the summit. Browse around, buy some gifts at the gift shop. Have lunch.
Mount Washington, NH, USA, 6,288 feet. Drive up. Park. Have some snacks. Browse around. Drive back down to the smell of burning brakes (steep!).
1 - that's why you have a big engine in mountain ranges - not just to go up, but also to use as brake going down..
2 - I wonder if you couldn't charge an electric car that way - that's a long stretch of regenerative braking :)
"...charge an electric car... - that's a long stretch of regenerative braking :) "
Yes. Just hire a helicopter to lift the drained e-car to the top...
Amusingly, the VW's deceleration fuel cutoff led to the engine temperature going to stone-cold on the way down.
The engine would over-rev while the brakes took a break, then the brakes would overheat when they rescued the engine. Without taking a rest stop on the descent (over-ambitious), there was no solution using only brakes and engine braking. I had to add 5% parking brake into the mix. Thus was revealed how marginal VW's design was. A "high performance" VW GTI that wasn't actually a very good car.
But real mountaineers have rescue blankets.
> But real mountaineers have rescue blankets.
They do fuck all if you're wet.
Actually, they do fuck all even if you're not wet. Only thing they're half-useful for is as an emergency ground sheet or rain cover.
Hugs,
Your (sur)real mountaineer.
> Whats your point?
His point being that continentals like to take the piss when we call those "mountains". Eventually you get used to it.
She wasn't wearing flip-flops. She was wearing trail running shoes, which in the absence of snow (or if you *really* know what you're doing and are going for speed) are fine for the occasion.
There was a great article in the Los Angeles Times a month or so back about a day hike the writer and his son made up one of the peaks above the San Gabriel Valley. (If you don't know the geography -- think 10,000+ mountains where your hike starts at the end of a suburban street.) These were experienced mountain hikers and were equipped for the weather and their article was prompted by a couple of separate fatalities in the area over the previous week. It was fairly tough getting up, a lot of ice and snow, and even more difficult to get down -- they reminded us that most climbing accidents happen on the way down because people are tired, its late and they can see where they need to go to get home. They came down off the mountain in the middle of an afternoon, typical winter day in SoCal, bright sun, clear air and recreation walkers in summer gear -- shorts and a tshirt, almost -- going up towards the snowfield.
You really need to treat these places with respect.
When we went up (in July, 25C sunshine at the base in Glen Nevis, below freezing plus windchill on the summit with horizontal frozen ice rain) two guys in singlets, shorts and trainers passed us at the start of the path at the bottom.
They passed us again on their descent having been to the top and back again.....we weren't even halfway.
Thing is, you walk up a (very) sloping path on one side, but most of the other sides are a very abrupt vertical and probably terminal drop.
It was in about 1973 that my wife and I helped a bloke off Ben Nevis. Fur coat, gym shoes, umbrella. Hadn't told anyone where he was going. He was lost, well off any path, on scree slope, it was starting to rain and it was getting dark. (We were going to camp the night as soon as we were low enough to find water so unlikely to be anyone else around). Put him back on the path where he couldn't get lost again and pointed out how upsetting it was for people who carried bodies off mountains and it could easily have come to that.
Only once up the "motorway" path. It's completely understandable how someone without experience who is even modestly fit could stroll part way up, then think why not go for it? If you've gone to the Grampians to go mountain biking, you can reasonably assume a high degree of fitness.
Also very noticeable those who routinely go walking in hills/mountains which are in the middle of continental weather systems have no idea about the conditions in Scottish hills. Especially the West coast, when starting from sea level.
Yes, it's a waterproof one -->
"kinda takes the edge off"
But she did almost die... And probably would have if there hadn't been someone there with the right equipment.
Still it does make me wonder - Ive done the three peaks, I wonder how much faster I could do it carrying NO weight... I could shave a few kilos off if I wore JUST the flip flops.