back to article Baby Ubuntus toddle forth into the big scary world of beta

Canonical's next version of Linux-based operating system Ubuntu has hit its first beta stage – and while Ubuntu's Unity release is sitting out its first beta, as is Kubuntu, there are plenty of changes and new features in the rest of the Ubuntu family. This release cycle is gearing up for the next Long Term Support release, …

  1. getHandle

    Give Unity a try!

    You might like it ;-) I found it a damn sight easier to get used to than Windows 8.1...

    1. Tromos

      Re: Give Unity a try!

      Then again, eating soup with a fork is easier to get used to than Windows 8.1.

      I did try Unity and it resulted in me never using Ubuntu again, but I thank it for pushing me onto Mint with Cinnamon.

      1. sep69

        Re: Give Unity a try!

        You could have just installed cinnamon on ubuntu with 'sudo apt-get install cinnamon' you know?

        But hey, installing another distribution because the default desktop isn't to your liking is not forbidden.

        Just not necessary.

    2. Lysenko

      Re: Give Unity a try!

      No. Tried it, hated it, dumped it.

      This is inevitably downvote bait, but the fact is I like my shell behaving pretty much like NT4. Trays on the left? No. Menus at the top of the screen? Hell no!! (reminds me of a Mac <shudder>). I'm mostly MINT/Cinnamon with Lubuntu on lower spec stuff.

      Unity, like GNOME3 and TIFKAM is basically the same as some genius deciding to replace a car steering wheel with a joystick. Too wrong even to achieve pointlessness.

      1. Tommy Pock

        Re: Give Unity a try!

        Put your menus back on the windows then.

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Give Unity a try!

      I actually like Unity. When it first came out it was rough as hell, but I'm not sure why it still attracts quite so much hate.

      It's not very customizable, but I'm so over customizing my desktop, so long as it's minimalist and uses "sensible defaults". For your value of sensible.

      1. Halloween Jack
        Thumb Up

        Give the NEW Unity a try! Was: Re: Give Unity a try!

        This. I suspect that most people that hate Unity tried it in the early days and have disregarded it ever since as unusable. Yes, there was a LOT wrong with it back in the day, but it has come on a lot since then.

        Back when it was first released, I found it unusable for a day-to-day coding environment (my preference is 2-3 80 column terminal windows side-by-side with focus-follows-mouse and no auto-raise) - mainly due to the menu-in-screen-titlebar thing (which made FFM a ridiculous option to even have) and its preference for opening everything fullscreen.

        HOWEVER, it is so much better these days as they have gradually added these developer-friendly features back. I think it is now a very good balance between a developer environment (I have no problem using it day-to-day as the features I mentioned before now work as I like) and a "consumer" environment (my wife uses it and likes it that the icons on the menu bar for the things she uses most - email, browsing, libre - switch between full-screen versions of those applications so she's not forever rearranging windows).

        Another thing I don't understand is when people diss the menu-column-on-the-left thing. It has been so long since I had a display that wasn't 16:9. It has more horizontal space than vertical. Why would you sacrifice even more vertical space by putting a taskbar along the bottom of the screen? I prefer this so much, that on my work Win7 laptop I have the taskbar pinned to the left hand edge of the screen (and it looks not unlike Unity ...). Unity's support for in-window-menus actually shares the same space with the title bar/window furniture to further maximise the use of vertical resolution (traditional desktops - and Win7 included, I don't know about MATE/Cinnamon) have two rows - one for the title and furniture and a second for the menu. Both of which are mostly empty ...

        I would urge people who haven't tried it for a while to give it a go again with this new LTS.

        Not sure about Mir though .... ;)

        1. To Mars in Man Bras!
          Linux

          Re: Give the NEW Unity a try! Was: Give Unity a try!

          *"...Another thing I don't understand is when people diss the menu-column-on-the-left thing..."*

          I'm completely fine with the column [on OSX I have the Dock pinned vertically to the edge of the screen too]. I only 'diss' it because I can't move it to the right, which is where my [left-handed] brain wants it to be.

          And therein lies the rub. For all the much-trumpeted "customisability" of Linux, I always find whatever version I use [of whatever distro] always lacks just enough customisability in the places I want it, for it to act like there's "grit in the machine" when I try to use it as a daily driver.

          Linux may be eminently customisable in sheer weight of numbers of tweaks available, but what use 500 different ways to style your windows & icons [most of which look like they were designed by a My Little Pony on crack], when the stuff I really want to customise, such as:

          * How the time/date appears in the menubar

          * Where the Unity menu is pinned

          * How my username is displayed

          * etc, etc.

          are either set in stone, don't offer the right options, or require hacking away in the terminal to change.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Give Unity a try!

      http://www.howtogeek.com/189929/how-to-install-and-launch-the-classic-gnome-menu-in-ubuntu-14.04/

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Give Unity a try!

      I thought the whole point of MATE was to keep with the Gnome2 classic desktop because Unity (and to a lesser degree) Gnome3 are NVG. Personally I think they stink and my supply of bargepoles isn't long enough. Adding Unity style desktop features with Mutiny is a bit like adding sugar to Diet Coke.

      I fear that just like the early versions of Ubuntu with Unity (it was 12.04 IIRC) which were optional, Mutiny will become the default then compulsory and MATE will be stuffed.

      At least we have Mint.

    6. thames
      Linux

      Re: Give Unity a try!

      When Unity first came out, I looked at the screen shots and decided I didn't like it. I also listened to all the other people on forums who also decided they didn't like it for the same reason. As a result, I skipped the first few releases.

      Then when support ran out on my Ubuntu Gnome 2 desktop, I reluctantly decided that I would have to switch to something else like XFCE, or even go back to KDE.

      However, I first decided that I would do an install of Ubuntu Unity so that I could write a detailed blog post of all the reasons of why it was so crap. After trying it out for about 20 minutes, I realised that not only was it rather good after all, but that it was much better than Gnome 2 and I wouldn't want to switch back. It fixed most of the fundamental usability problems in Gnome 2 without being a huge conceptual leap (like going from KDE to Gnome 2 was for me).

      I also found out that 99% of the negative comments in forums were from people who had never actually used it, because it simply didn't work the way the way they claimed it did. No, it's not a tablet interface stuck on a PC like so many people claimed (this was back when the iPad was new, and the hard core PC users had a massive hate on for anything that looked like it might be a touch interface). It's a very good keyboard and mouse UI, with lots of keyboard short cuts (and a nice crib sheet that appears if you hold down the super key). The touch interface for phones, which I have not tried, looks similar, but it's designed for touch. Unity is for people who want a traditional desktop, but who also want most of the basic usability problems found in some other desktops fixed.

      I also got a very good lesson on not slagging off a UI that I haven't spent some time getting used to, which is why I don't make negative comments on Gnome 3 or MATE. Even reviewers here in El Reg get some major things wrong about Unity (e.g. how the scroll bars work) because they seem to look at it through the eyes of someone expecting to see what other people told them was there instead of looking at what actually is there.

      When Ubuntu was creating Unity, they actually went out and hired UI usability consultants who actually talked to actual ordinary people in order to come up with their design. Overall, I like the result, and I have no problems recommending it to anyone.

      1. Lysenko

        basic usability problems found in some other desktops fixed.

        The only "basic usability" problems I ever encounter are (allegedly) "compelling new usability features". I know how to drive a car. Steering wheel, 2-3 pedals, central gearshift. It worked when my grandfather learned to drive and I guarantee you it will still be the best solution when I finally ride a hearse. I don't want joysticks, steering column gearshifts, voice operated accelerators and buttock clench activated brakes.

        The design of the UI for a mouse and keyboard operated computer is a solved problem. Messing around with the conventions is counterproductive for exactly the same reasons that non-QWERTY keyboards never make headway. Unity is like AZERTY. TIFKAM - Microwriter. Their attempts to address usability problems are usability problems.

      2. keithpeter Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Give Unity a try!

        "When Ubuntu was creating Unity, they actually went out and hired UI usability consultants who actually talked to actual ordinary people in order to come up with their design. "

        I could live with Unity if it was the UI provided by (say) an employer.

        I actually think it makes sensible use of a wide screen display. I didn't like the menu-at-top-of-screen that inexplicably hid itself (mouse safari to reach obscure options on a large monitor), but then I thought that the HUD was genius. The only reason that I stopped using Unity was the LibreOffice short cut keys meltdown that dogged the UI for ages. I'm a big ALT-keys shortcut user.

        I recollect the Canonical Design posts about user testing...

        https://design.canonical.com/2010/11/usability-testing-of-unity/

        ...worth reading even 6 years later. I've see nothing similar from anyone else in the Libre world. References welcome.

        My problem with Unity is the orientation to naive users.

        What is the planning for skill growth? Vygotski's 'zone of proximal development' (Google it) to borrow a term from my profession (I'm a teacher of maths to adults). Basically what is the onboarding promise?

        Earlier Unity releases also had a responsiveness issue when hitting Mod4. Gnome was a lot more responsive, and I have to say I still rather like Gnome 3. Mind you, I used dwm/dmenu for years, so I'm quite used to hit-button-and-type-stuff interfaces.

        Having analysed my own desktop use, I'm posting this off an install of Debian Jessie with wm2 as window manager, xbindkeys, dmenu, pmount, ifconfig, xterm and applications (LibreOffice, texlive, R, dia, GIMP, surf and a few others). Works for me with a bit of scripting, pstree output does not scroll in a standard terminal. Probably for noone else. 9wm was a bridge too far, and fvwm was a little bloaty.

        Coat: I'm not using Ubuntu at present although I kick the tyres now and again.

    7. YY

      Re: Give Unity a try!

      NOP, Unity is a sorrow rip-off of Gnome3 icw Gnome Tweak Tools.

      That's why everybody should try Ubuntugnome.org

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Give Unity a try!

      "I found it a damn sight easier to get used to than Windows 8.1"

      A colonoscopy is easier to get used to than Windows 8.1 because you're unconscious for the colonoscopy.

      Doesn't mean I like colonoscopies though...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Give Unity a try!

        > because you're unconscious for the colonoscopy.

        I'm not. I refuse the relaxant, watch the video and chat to the surgeon.

        I hate feeling dead after the injection more than the minor, occasional and short timespan pain.

        1. Thecowking

          Re: Give Unity a try!

          I do keep trying to like unity, I do.

          But I can't, the search is slower than my typing even on my beefy laptop, so I hit meta, type gedit and get... preferences (Caveat, I've not even tried this since 15.10 came out, it might be better now)? The alt-tab behaviour is probably my least favourite thing, I am sure you can probably turn off grouping programs in alt-tab with it, but every time I see it on a fresh install, it just annoys me. I like multiple terminals, I don't like pausing or moving my hands when I am tabbing between them. I also strongly dislike docks of any kind, I don't want programs which are not running masquerading as running on my task bar.

          Basically I can see how people might like it, but personally I use mate, because change for change's sake isn't worth anything to me. Call me stuck in my ways (you might well be right), but I need something really worthwhile to make me use my time learning another workflow to do the same thing. I don't see what Unity provides that mate doesn't. It's different, but what is the actual tangible benefit I'd get from moving from what is essentially the same gnome 2 I've been using since the mid noughties?

          I'm willing to learn things if there's a benefit (I recently gave in and started using vim as my main editor, which was a lot of relearning how to do things but it _is_ very fast and very powerful and useful being right there in the terminal and I can execute commands and... well yes, the pay off was worth it), so if anyone can tell me what Unity can do that mate can't that will be useful to a technical user, then I'll bite my lip and try again with 16.04.

          That said, I know plenty of people that like it, but they have a different workflow to me, so perhaps it's just not the DE for me. As long as I can get a DE that I like though, I'm happy.

          1. thames

            Re: Give Unity a try!

            @Thecowking - I can't comment on MATE in particular, since while I've tried it, I'm not familiar enough with the fine details of it to do a fair comparison. And as the article shows, MATE can apparently be made to (superficially at least) look somewhat like Unity.

            I can tell you what I like better about Unity as compared to Gnome 2 though. First I need to point out the sort of things I use a computer for. I mainly use (in no particular order) a web browser, RSS feed reader, e-mail, programming editor, compiler, and various command line tools (compilers, ssh, bash, grep, diff, etc.). I use multiple desktops (this is optional in Unity), and have a lot of windows open (especially a lot of terminals) on the various desktops. I normally have a pretty standard arrangement of things when working on a project, but that varies from project to project.

            Gnome 2 normally has launcher icons on the left side of the top bar. I would customise these for the most common programs I use. The problem with these is that they are very small and can be hard to distinguish between them. Making them bigger eats up valuable vertical screen space (keeping in mind that I have a lot of different windows open at once).

            Unity puts them down the left side of the screen, and makes them big enough that it's easy to see what's what. Some programs (e.g. Liferea) also put live data in them, so that I can at this moment for example see that I have 5 unread messages in Liferea without having to switch to that desktop to see if anything is there.

            With standard Gnome 2, there is a task bar across the bottom of the screen (eating up vertical space). It's there to tell you what windows are open, and let you select them if they are minimised or behind another window. If you had a lot of windows open though, then they would get squished together in the task bar so you couldn't read the labels and so you couldn't tell which was which without trying each one.

            Unity combines that function with the launcher bar. Program icons that were not locked to the launcher are temporarily added to it, and removed when closed. If a program is running, you will see a little white triangle to the left of the icon in the launcher. If multiple copies (windows) are running, there will be multiple indicator dots (up to 3). If the window is on top, you will also get a dot (triangle) to the right of the icon.

            If you click on an icon in the launcher it starts the program, including with an animation to tell you something is happening (this is useful for programs which are slow to start). If the program is already running in a window in the background, it puts it on top. If it's on another desktop, it also takes you to that desktop. If the program has multiple windows and is already on top, it gives you a graphical overview of them and lets you pick which one you want. If you want to start another copy of a program which is already running (e.g. a second instance of Firefox), then you right click on the launcher icon and select "open an new window". Sometimes having a second copy can bollox things up though (e.g. Liferea), in which case you don't get that option. Some programs also have menu integration to go directly to some feature (e.g. open a private browsing window for Firefox instead of a standard instance).

            There are also keyboard short cuts to do a lot of the above, Hold down the "super" key and a crib sheet will appear. If you're someone who likes to do as much as possible without moving your hands from the keyboard, Unity has loads of features to allow that. The most common keyboard short cuts that I used with Gnome 2 (moving between desktops) are also present in Unity.

            Overall, there is a lot of functionality packed into the launcher bar.

            The other really big improvement from my perspective was the handling of multiple desktops. This is an optional feature that you need to turn on in the settings (Windows users often panicked when using Gnome 2 or KDE if they accidentally select another desktop through a keyboard short cut, because they don't know what desktops are and all they know is that their programs have suddenly disappeared). From my perspective much of this is related to the design of the launcher bar. With Gnome 2, I wasn't sure if I already had a program running on another desktop or where it was. I also had to do a little "keyboard dance" to check all the desktops for running programs before shutting down the computer. With Unity, I can tell at a glance if something is still running, and either shut it down directly from the launcher (right click on the icon, and select quit), or just click on the icon to take me to that desktop.

            The Gnome system menus are replaced by the big "Ubuntu" button, but the same functionality is still there, with the same programs from the same repos categorised in the same ways (since this is determined by how Debian categorises things and not something Ubuntu can realistically change). However, they present it differently. When you click on the Ubuntu button, you first see a list of "most recently used" programs and files. There's a series of icons at the bottom which let you pick things like "applications", "music", etc., which more or less corresponds to the Gnome 2 text menu equivalents. It looks different, but the underlying concepts are similar. There are also filtering and searching features, but I won't go into those.

            I go into the Ubuntu button menu system only a few times a week, because all the stuff I use most often is already locked to the launcher already, or I pick it from Nautilus when I right click on a file. As a result, it's not really a major item I worry about on a day to day basis so the pros and cons of it are not something I have firm opinion on.

            Here's a top tip by the way, if you are using Gnome 2 or Unity. If you use a terminal a lot, install the nautilus-open-terminal package. It integrates into the Nautilus right-click context menu and lets you open a terminal in any directory. There is (or was) a KDE equivalent, but I don't remember what it's called. If you've ever used it once, you'll never want to do without it again. If you're installing it from Ubuntu Software Centre, be sure to click on the "show 'x' technical items" at the bottom left of the window to expose them, as Software Centre hides the non-GUI stuff by default (so that non-technical users don't have to look at zillions of optional development libraries and command line tools).

  2. frank ly

    Mutiny: not a bounty

    As the details in the article indicate, Mutiny is just a preset group of paramters for MATE. In MATE, you can have panels on any side you like, all at the same time, autohiding and each in a different colour if you like.

    I've run Mint MATE for three years and in January and February this year I tried Ubuntu MATE and Debian Jessie MATE. They all have the same fault, which I've seen on two different desktops and a laptop:

    Any drawers you put on the panel will hyperextend, sometimes. This happens as soon as you log on but only sometimes. The icons will drift around from the place that you first put them - not as often as the hyperextension. This has been going on for over three years; it's reported on the forums and I did see a formal bug report about three years ago.

    To fix the problem, until the next time it happens, is a simple matter (that takes time and effort to find out about) and I now have an icon driven command (killall mate-panel) that does it for me. Make sure you close the drawer before you do that command. You can do that by clicking on any icon in the drawer (if there's still one visible) and then closing the application that it launches. Failing that, you Logoff/On again. It's very frustrating and a bit sad that they put so much effort into eye-candy and don't deal with basic problems.

    Don't get me started on the mutual tripping-up between pulseaudio, alsa and jack. (Try "/sbin/alsa force-reload". That often works.)

    1. eesiginfo
      Linux

      Re: Mutiny: not a bounty

      >Don't get me started on the mutual tripping-up between pulseaudio, alsa and jack. (Try "/sbin/alsa force-reload". That often works.)<

      Ah.... somebody else who has that problem.

      A few months ago I went big on trying to fix it.

      Hours of time put in involving loads of people, and a long ubuntu forum thread.

      I finally gave up, and accepted that my laptop has no internal sound, after the login screen.

      1. theOtherJT Silver badge

        Re: Mutiny: not a bounty

        Uninstalling pulse entirely fixed that one for me. Don't get me wrong, Pulse audio is a very useful and very clever bit of software. But it's BETA software, and falls over it's own feet as often as it works it seems to me.

  3. Youvegottobe Joking

    Try Ubuntu Mate on that Raspberry Pi 2 thats gathering dust

    I use it as a low power Bittorrent Sync node. Its not going to break any speed records but its perfectly usable, just the usual lag when accessing the micro sd card.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Try Ubuntu Mate on that Raspberry Pi 2 thats gathering dust

      My raspberry pi 2 isn't gathering dust. It's running as a fulltime nginx server, and doing it very well.

      1. Youvegottobe Joking

        Re: Try Ubuntu Mate on that Raspberry Pi 2 thats gathering dust

        There are a lot of people who bought one, played with it for a bit and then put it back in the box and consigned it to the "I'll have another go at that in a month" shelf where it never again sees the light of day.

        Also lots of folks bought a Pi3 and may have no immediate use for their older Pi

  4. msknight

    So why do it?

    Why did they release it like this? Has Shuttleworth admitted that perhaps his vision was too far ahead of itself? Have the number of Ubuntu users dropped to levels which led them to try and win back the people like me, who fled to Mint? The big question is why? - and I'm not giving up Mint just yet. Yes, some of its packages are well behind, but I won't jump back lightly.

    1. Teiwaz

      Re: So why do it?

      Mate is a community distro, like Kubuntu, Lubuntu etc. The Ubuntu Mate devs must have thought the Mutiny layout was as valid an option to present to users as the other presets that are provided (the gnome two panel or single panel layouts).

      1. keithpeter Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: So why do it?

        "The Ubuntu Mate devs must have thought the Mutiny layout was as valid an option to present to users as the other presets that are provided"

        I may be talking out of the back seam of my jeans (I have before) but could this presentation of the MATE desktop be of value to those who cannot use 3d graphics acceleration and who wish to use a Unity style? I recollect that Unity 2d bit the dust some time ago and my experiences with llvmpipe were less than stellar at that point in time.

        Coat: I'm not using Ubuntu regularily now so what do I know?

    2. Palpy

      Re: So why do it?

      No, I don't thinks Shuttleworth is backtracking. IMHO it's just another Ubuntu spin, like Lubuntu and Xubuntu. It's just about choice, I think.

      Meself, I like Unity -- with an extra menu and dock added. I also like Mac. Also the desktops built on KDE and XFCE. And Mate. Heck, I like Puppy. Win 7 is nice too. None of the desktops I've tried have been that hard to figure out, and most have shiny spots that I really like.

      When the time comes my grandpa-box will get a fresh install of 16.04, regular Unity flavor, and then I'll do a few minor tweaks. Looking forward to it.

  5. Loud Speaker

    Sod Unity-alike. Ubuntu has real problems.

    Will the new one have libtiff4 - so we can use our Canon printers? (Canon support Ubuntu like a rock supports Olympic swimmers).

    And will Wifi work? Even with Broadcomm chips?

    How about Nvidia drivers that actually display video? on the second day too?

    Despite the agro, it seems to work better than Windows, or even Mint on Thinkpads.

    OS makers in general need to get a grip - they are there to provide infrastructure, not a virtual wrestling experience. And Bizarro names are not generally a good selling tool outside of that Silly-cone Roundabout.

    1. Richard Wharram

      I bought a second-hand Thinkpad T430 for the father-in-law, blatted Windows to put Ubuntu 15.10 on (old people and Windows = insta-malware) and put the Canon printer the brother-in-law had bought for him on the wifi network. I was reading up about how to install drivers for it and had about 10 browser windows open to help guide me but then thought I'd just try asking the OS to find a wireless printer on the network. It found it, asked if I'd like to use it, thought for a few seconds, then hey-presto it worked. What's the problem?

      1. thames

        @Richard Wharram - I think the main problem that people have with printers on Linux is that they expect it to be difficult and get frustrated because they can't find much information on what to do. For me, I've got an ancient and obscure Samsung laser printer, and it's always been just plug it in after installation, click print in some program, and it does its thing. That non-event doesn't tend to result in a lot of help forum posts. It was very disconcerting to me at first, because I was so used to struggling with printers in MS-DOS and Windows back in the days when getting a printer working was a multi-day adventure.

        These days, my problems always come down to either the cable has come unplugged, or the printer has run out of paper. The printer unplugged is easy to figure out, because you get that little printer icon at the top of the screen (in Unity) which manages the printer queue. I just wiggle the cable at the printer, and away it goes.

        However, my reflexes are such that checking the paper tray is always the last sodding thing I think of doing (not helped by the paper tray indicator on the front of the printer being misleading). The result is that I look for software problems, hardware problems, etc., etc., before asking myself "I wonder if it's run out of paper again?" And oh yes, stick some paper in, close the tray, and away it goes. I only use the thing about once a month, so I'm not sure where the paper keeps disappearing to.

        1. John Sanders
          Holmes

          Elemental

          ""so I'm not sure where the paper keeps disappearing to.""

          Children and wifes, they're everywhere.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It's your own fault

      Wifi gear not working has got to be the number one complaint against linux ever.

      Stop buying shit hardware and expecting it to work on Linux. Linux gives you freedom (for free), but the hidden cost is that you can't pick hardware from opensource hostile companies and expect it to work well, or at all.

      Either buy Qualcomm or Ralink which have documented drivers and firmware, or respect the massive reverse-engineering effort that went into b43 to support your shitty Broadcomm out of the box.

      OR fuck off back to windows.

      (Ditto for nasty-ass printers without Ethernet or PostScript)

      1. Loud Speaker

        Re: It's your own fault

        I have been a Linux user since version 0.99. Nothing on earth would drive me back to Windows. I started with Yggdrasil, and I switch distros occasionally. I also use OpenBSD on servers and FreeBSD on servers and desktops.

        I have at least 4 Ralink adaptors that don't work reliably on Ubuntu (its not the hardware, they work on FreeBSD). The hidden cost of Ubuntu is that hardware that was working on earlier versions, mysteriously stops despite the fact that it is not faulty, and software that was working fine is swapped for half-baked crap. Wpa-supplicant and Wifi manager (or whatever its called) were both very unstable on my previous desktop with different Ubuntu versions - now I have a new system, and currently have no problems, but not looking forward to the next LTS experience.

        I install and maintain Linux on other people's machines, and telling them "Oh, your wifi card is crap, you need another" when it worked on Windows, and can't be changed cos its in a laptop, is not the way to inspire credibility - even with people who reboot their Windows every two hours cos the Wifi locks up :-} I know - I talk to these people.

        I also do not think OpenBSD on Sun servers is the answer for my niece whose HP laptop is virused yet again.

  6. JEF_UK

    I’ve found the Intel wireless in my vostro 1500 (aka old) works fine with Intel's firmware added.

    Nvidia legacy driver was needed to support my GPU. I did not realise that first time and installed the new one, GRR.

    Since I came to Debian from Servers with no GUI I was not hard to grep the faulting module, apt-get purge it and then get the correct one.

    I'm going to say I was quite impressed with how much worked on my laptop out the box. Yes OK it's old.

    My HP Pro 400 was easy to add, juts add the IP to the printer software and select driver from the list. Yes OK its an expensive printer and works well.

    What bugs me? CPU power management and scaling.

    Its a PITA to set up and you cannot do it with out being technical.

  7. FatGerman

    But... Wha? Ba? Gaaaaaa!

    So we created Ubuntu MATE because we like GNOME 2 and we hate this new idea that is Unity because it's a new idea and we hate it. But wait, now we've made our GNOME 2 thing look exactly like the new idea that was Unity because cheese and hippos?

    What? For fuck's sake. How many options are there now. Oh yes, Linux is all about choice, I keep hearing that. Choice between 6 things that can't decide what the fuck they are?

    I can understand devs getting excited about doing new stuff and playing with the toys. Unfortunately I can see users (and especially the unconverted users) yawning into their beers and ordering a second hand android tablet off ebay instead,

    Year of the Linux desktop? Year of the new Linux desktop - 2016, now we've got 16 of the bloody things. Yawn, I'm boring myself now.

    (Mythbuntu diehard and Xubuntu user here, by the way, before you all downvote me for pulling hippos into it)

    1. DropBear
      Facepalm

      Re: But... Wha? Ba? Gaaaaaa!

      Ah, yes, Mythbuntu - the HTPC OS that will happily run out of listings once the XMLTV grabber for your country inevitably breaks (yet again) and thus miss recording your favourite show because it can't be bothered to show a pop-up or light up a warning icon or send you an email or just use smoke signals or something to warn you about your dwindling listings if you don't remember to check your status page religiously each time you watch something. You do, right...? Mythbuntu is kinda like the elephant sitting in your driveway blocking it, that you don't so much ever really sort out but simply give up on with "fine, just sit there if you want then" eventually.

  8. To Mars in Man Bras!
    Facepalm

    You Say Potato...

    *"...Ubuntu MATE's Software Boutique ... is the distro's own version of a software **center**... Unity... will reportedly be using a new software **center**... If you need something that's not in the Boutique there's a handy link to access other software **centres**... As with Ubuntu MATE, Ubuntu GNOME has a new default software **centre**..."*

    I've given up hoping for El Reg to make a choice between whether it's an English or Merkin site. But you could at least try and be consistent within the same couple of paragraphs!

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A Linux experience

    Having recently installed my first Linux OS (Mint Cinnamon). I found it an interesting experience to explore the environment after reading Reg comments for so long. I've used PC's since windows 3.1 on a 386 and every version of windows since. I generally don't bother reconfiguring the menus / interface just use it as supplied after removing all the guff (ie in windows 8 uninstalling all the metro apps possible and running from the desktop). Actually I didn't mind windows 8.1 it was clean and fast to use.

    Windows 10 interface is also clean if mostly childlike. Makes me feel as though I'm an 8 year old not capable of being trusted with that technical computer stuff. Also most windows interfaces now seem to be wasteful of screen space, I guess to allow fat fingers to poke the screen with a degree of accuracy.

    Anyway windows 10 has morphed into something I don't own, but here is the interesting thing... I found myself downloading a windows 10 skin for my Linux install..

    As a general comment MS windows has sorted most of the interface issues, vast majority of users are comfortable with windows, Linux could do a lot worse than providing an interface which mimics this. If you want converts, why try reinventing the interface..

    I haven't yet come across anything in Mint interface where I thought.. yeah that's better than windows.. (lol also I don't like the mint trash can icon).. Oh and OMG so many Linux mini wars over desktops versions and names.. (see Monty Python.. Peoples front of Judea)..

    The operating system is just the tool for running applications to do work or play less is usually more.

    1. Grifter

      Re: A Linux experience

      >>Linux could do a lot worse than providing an interface which mimics

      >>this. If you want converts, why try reinventing the interface..

      Not that I speak for all Linux users, but no we don't _want_ converts, if you want to convert that's great but it should be on your terms, noone else really gives a shit what you run =)

      But as a new user you demonstrate the ignorance (not said with malice) which comes with it, Linux is not a single entity that provides 'stuff', like user interfaces, they are provided usually by individuals or groups of individuals who share an interest and a general direction on how a user interface should function. That is why there are hundreds of different user interfaces available, because there are hundreds of people (and more!) that each have their own opinion on how a good user interface looks.

      At the same time, "Why try reinventing the interface?", because that's what using Linux is all about, for a lot of people, it's a way to explore, and come up with new solutions. Or just be creative. Use your imagination.

    2. Richard Plinston

      Re: A Linux experience

      > The operating system is just the tool for running applications

      Exactly, that is why I like LXDE, it stays out of the way more than most.

    3. To Mars in Man Bras!
      Linux

      Re: A Linux experience

      Linux could do a lot worse than providing an interface which mimics this.... [Windows]

      No! No! and thrice No!

      As a long-time Mac user [since System 7] who can no longer stand Apple and is longing to move to Linux full-time, one of the things that I hate most about almost every distro is precisely the fact that they do try and mimic that godawful Windows interface.

      I can see that, from their [the distro-makers'] points of view, that is the way to go. Most of their potential market will be switching from Windows. However, as a "designery" type, it hurts my soul to be stuck, for hours at a time, in front of an interface that looks like it was assembled by committee, from 1980s clip-art.

      I'm not saying Canonical gets it all right all the time [see my other comment in the thread] but I applaud them for at least trying to produce something more than another dismal Windows clone.

      The only other non- "Kwik Save Windows" distro I'm aware of, that might appeal to OSX switchers is Elementary OS, which looks great but is a bit too er... "elementary" for serious use.

      [PS. Speaking of terrible software: El Reg, will you sort out this bloody crappy forum. What's with the random microscopically small paragraphs here and there, in the comments?]

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Gnome vs XFCE

    So, I have been a long time user of the gnome shell. Our household runs 4 computers on Ubuntu Gnome 14.04. But, I have always had a soft spot for Xubuntu. So, we made the decision to update three of our systems to xubuntu 16.04 and its just great. It does need some love customizing the desktop but that is not very hard. The only problems we have found so far are that Virtualbox will not run, and shutter requires a later version than is in the repository (bug submitted).

  11. MT Field

    I'm in love with my x

    xubuntu, that is

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