Windows 10 will now automatically download and install on PCs Microsoft said it would push Windows 10 upgrades onto people's PCs much harder this year – and Redmond has been true to its word. From Monday, Windows Update will start making the upgrade to version 10 of the operating system a recommended update, rather than an optional one, a spokesperson for the software giant confirmed. …
>> Today's move does mean you can expect to get a lot more technical support calls from friends and family who don't know what's going on
And then far fewer calls from those who just upgrade as Windows 10 is in many ways a better product.
To get people off from older OSs onto more modern and secure versions like Windows 10 is good for all of us.
>> Please explain your implication that a modern OS is more secure than an older one.
See some info https://blogs.windows.com/business/2014/10/22/windows-10-security-and-identity-protection-for-the-modern-world/
and if that's not enough then see more info https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt601297(v=vs.85).aspx
See some info https://blogs.windows.com/business/2014/10/22/windows-10-security-and-identity-protection-for-the-modern-world/
and if that's not enough then see more info https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt601297(v=vs.85).aspx
Since when would anyone take security advice from Microsoft, let alone from their marketing fluff for Windows 10?
Total fail.
I'd rather take "known" vulnerabilities over "We were going to tell you about how easy it was to root your laptop, but we needed that 8 months to let the exploits get well used before we fixed it and then told you."
Also, screw anyone that ever says to trust Microsoft. Take it from someone who has dealt with them since Windows 2.0, they can never be trusted. Can you say "Threshold"?:
"OS-X - now well over 2,000 known vulnerabilities, Linux kernel now on well over 1,300"
I saw someone over on the 'answers' Microsoft forum that was trying to spread FUD like this, a while back. Words like 'sycophant', 'shill', and 'fanboi' come to mind.
And, _THOSE_ claims are just NOT true. Did they come from HERE, by any chance?
http://www.gfi.com/blog/most-vulnerable-operating-systems-and-applications-in-2014/
I question the validity of pretty much EVERYTHING that this guy is saying. One comment in particular pretty much sums up why:
"This article insults my intelligence at the highest level! What versions of Linux and OS X are you referring to, and why is Windows broken out by version"
lies, DANG lies, and statistics, indeed.
"And, _THOSE_ claims are just NOT true."
Yes they are. The OS-X total is from Secunia. The Linux total is from the NVD:
https://www.cvedetails.com/vendor/33/Linux.html
Here is the OS-X number from the NVD (also over 1300) - lower than Secunia but still higher than any Microsoft product:
http://www.cvedetails.com/product/156/Apple-Mac-Os-X.html?vendor_id=49
Admittedly a little out of date: Jeffrey Carr, Inside Cyber Warfare (2010) page 193 Kaspersky figures on malware distribution by OS
Linux: total 1898, 88 trojans
FreeBSD: total 43, 0 trojans
SunOs/Solaris: total 119, 3 trojans
Unix: total 212, 3 trojans
OSX: total 48, 11 trojans
Windows: total 2247659, 1232798 trojans
https://securelist.com/analysis/kaspersky-security-bulletin/68010/kaspersky-security-bulletin-2014-overall-statistics-for-2014/
"Kaspersky Lab experts detected 1,499 new malicious programs for Mac OS X, 200 samples more than in the previous year."
https://usa.kaspersky.com/internet-security-center/threats/mac#.VrFiubKLS9J
"Compared with figures for 2010, the number of signatures created annually has increased by a factor of six."
I am not convinced the situation is the same or as flattering to OSX anymore.
"Please explain your implication that a modern OS is more secure than an older one."
I like a challenge. I'll bite.
First off, the only relevant comparison is whether Win10 is more secure than Win7, 8 or 8.1, because the upgrade doesn't apply to any other.
Secondly, it is clear from the last few months that the only way to be sure that you don't wake up one morning to the Win10 "installing" screen is to switch off automatic updates, even if they are marked as purely "security" ones. Therefore, the comparison is between "Win10 which is getting patched" or "Win7/8/8.1 which is not getting patched".
Since every patch that you don't apply is a new zero day generously donated by Microsoft to the bag guys, the comparison may be fairly restated as "Win10 which MS are doing their level best to keep secure" or "Win7/8/8.1 which MS are doing their level best to turn into a stinking pile of zombie-fied porn server".
So, which is more secure? Hmmm ... actually you're right. That's not obvious.
This post has been deleted by its author
To get people off from older OSs onto more modern and secure versions like Windows 10 is good for all of us.
>Implying that Windows 7 is somehow insecure than Win X? Sans the creepy data slurping telemetry updates that MicroSoft will pitch at you, behind your back, and are now flatly outright refusing to disclose. (e.g. even more creepy sanctiond malware.)'Cause they know that such disclosure would be the death of such updates. (i.e. anyone with a brain would avoid said updade like the plaque.)
Nope its not a question of being better secured, it's a question of trust, and MicroSoft has lost mine. It was one thing to implement this stuff in Win X. There was absolutely no need to back port it to Windows 7. And is a genuine disservice to those that bought it as Ultimate at retail.
So they can go fsck them selves!
"MS security - still as bad as 2005... LOL"
Funny you should mention 2005 - that was 3 years after Bill Gates email on trustworthy computing - and ever since 2005, every year without fail, Windows has had fewer vulnerabilities that were on average fixed faster than OS-X and enterprise Linux (Redhat and SUSE).
How can an operating system with a build in key logger ever be considered more secure. In fact everything required to turn your computer into a privacy invasive bot controlled by someone else is built right into the OS. Don't need to install any trojan ware at all under Windows anal probe 10, you just need to break in once, redirect the links and you are done.
The whole idea is utter insanity and a solid indication that it is well and truly beyond time to abandon doing any business at all with M$.
Had to hijack:
Lilipution Snot Weasel...
ROFL...
I SO want that error as an .SCR I can plant on some of the numpties I deal with to prove that users DO just click on anything because as sure is eggs is eggs, they will flat out deny that THEY have given crapware.exe permission to install....
** I did have a program that put up fake, meaningless error messages but it was back in the days of win98.
Corporate theft (of both data allowance and electricity), Spam, computer misuse act, and whatever else a technically savvy lawyer can come up with.
Or just find a MS exec, tie himm down in the middle of a pasture, and force-feed him/her a nice, fresh, steaming pile of cowshit to see how they like being treated the way they treat us.
Actually, being Australian, I can sue them.
As I have mentioned before in other threads, part of our consumer laws state all terms and conditions MUST be presented to the consumer prior to the point of purchase. In other words, since they stopped printing the EULA on the outside of the box, the EULA is completely invalid.
Then there is the fact they changed the T&Cs between the time of purchase, and now means that once again, the EULA is invalid, as a contract cannot be binding if the terms of it change without both parties consent. Being forced to accept an updated EULA in order to receive security updates to an operating system is extortion, and again, illegal.
We may pay higher prices for our kit here in Oz, but at least we've got some decent protections from asshat companies.
@Mr Damage
Consumer wise same in the UK, unless it is against your statutory rights, basically at point of sale you and the retailer enter into a contract and all terms and conditions that need to be adhered to must be clearly displayed at that point, not 10 meters back on a wall in white text on a white background or sealed in a box, otherwise your statutory rights apply and anything else you can get away with.
English contract law, as used by most countries, even the old colonies :-)
As an aside always wondered about these "No contract" terms the local Gym, TV on demand, Mobile operator etc. go on about(and then list a pile of conditions), because as far as I am aware everything in the UK that is sold to a consumer is under contract and to deny it would be against the law, wouldn't it? After all "No Contract" means none, zilch F*** all, or is it like "Unlimited Broadband"!
Re: "Consumer wise same in the UK, unless it is against your statutory rights, basically at point of sale you and the retailer enter into a contract and all terms and conditions that need to be adhered to must be clearly displayed at that point, not 10 meters back on a wall in white text on a white background or sealed in a box, otherwise your statutory rights apply and anything else you can get away with."
...and Microsoft did _just_ that for me this morning!
Booting my (work) PC i received a popup dialogue saying that i could not continue unless i *accept* a licence agreement. The popup did not say what program or application it was from, and the licence agreement link said...
----
PLEASE NOTE: Your use of this software is subject to the terms and conditions of the license agreement by which you acquired this software. For instance, if you are:
• a volume license customer, use of this software is subject to your volume license agreement.
• a MSDN customer, use of this software is subject to the MSDN agreement.
You may not use this software if you have not validly acquired a license for the software from Microsoft or its licensed distributors.
EULAID:O15_RTM_VL.1_RTM_EN
----
...and that was it.
The Vogons were nothing but fluffy kittens compared to Microsoft!
mb
I'm sure the T&C are also written in such a way that they would protect Microsoft if they had to do anything under instruction from the NSA.
It would also be interesting to know if the legal protection from hidden T&C, that exist in some regions, still apply after agreeing to the new T&Cs of the first update.
You either a troll or very inexperienced user. Let me show you how you can manage those simple updates in Ubuntu (feel free to use this link below):
http://i.imgur.com/meGSt7X.png
So it took me 4 clicks to manage that. Now I dare you to show me you can do the very same in Windows 10 :)
I hope you have learned something today.
Regards.
So don't use Ubuntu either. There are plenty of other Linux distros that don't enforce updates on you and whilst I don't use Ubuntu, I suspect there's an option somewhere to turn off automatic updates.
If anything, you're an idiot if you believe any system update makes you more secure, in most cases it does not. The majority of people connecting to the Internet these days do so through NAT (Network Address Translation) routers that, by default, act as firewalls to the Internet anyway.
Most malware and viruses are spread because a clueless user has unwittingly clicked a malicious link or installed a bit of dodgy software, there are no OS updates that fix ignorance or stupidity.
I suppose that depends on whether you consider systemd, Unity or an upgrade to a new LTS version to be big enough to count as a new OS. Big OS releases aren't really the Debian way. Microsoft might (indeed might have to) argue that a minor UI tweak isn't an OS upgrade, especially if the Linux community has already got away with moving from KDE to Gnome etc. Personally I don't buy that argument but the lawyers could make it stick.
Automatic updates are off on my boxes. Just surprised that a Linux distro felt the need to change that. All very mother knows best and unlike Linux.
Alternatively have some fun!
https://www.microsoft.com/security/portal/submission/submit.aspx
Is your friend, just attach the relevant downloads, eg. GWX etc. and put in the comments section: PUP/Trojan.downloader
If enough people do it and also send to VirusCentral they might start to get the message...
Upgrading my Vista laptop to Windows 10 would be a fantastic idea. Trouble is, nobody ever released WDDM video drivers for my laptop's chipset, so I am forced to use XDDM video drivers instead. Since support for XDDM drivers was dropped in Windows 8, I'd only have generic SVGA video support if I bumped to 10. Yuck.
I have a newer laptop running Windows 7, but I keep my old laptop around for traveling. It wouldn't be a huge loss to me if it was damaged or stolen.
".. expect to download and install a few gigabytes of code for the move to Windows 10."
Then the mandatory updates, and the other "optional" ones, and "wouldn't it be nice" crap, since you have/used "x"; we recommend you install "y", and you are up/beyond gig country, and entering teara town...
M.S. - "I" Can not say enough, LEAVE ME THE F. ALONE!
IF I want to, I will, on my own free will. Ya just keep pushing this bs, and I'll keep pushing back. So will others.
GET A GRIP!
Please, MS, view my previous post, here, on El Reg :
http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2016/01/05/microsoft_200_million_windows_10_devices/#c_2736489
"I have disabled updates on my work PC, IT IS STAYING WIN 7"
'ACK' on 'staying win 7'.
I've disabled *AUTOMATIC* updates/downloads for sure, but I'll _DEFINITELY_ vet anything marked 'security patch' for the next few months, be VERY critical of everything else, and THEN see what happens after July...
the XP machine I use for accounting and music production doesn't go online via a web browser [except to download tax software or something similar to that]. The two 7 machines I use (one a VM, one an old laptop) are both 'work machines' for software development and testing only (as per the MSDN license). So *WHY* would I want to "UP"grade something I *NEED* to test software on? "It works on 10" doesn't cut it with ME. They stay '7' machines.
Plus I hate the 2D UGLY of "Ape" (8.x) and 10 [among other things].
I just hope it's *STILL* possible to clean-install 7 from a DVD and then NOT have it try to "up"grade itself to 10.
Is made me disable windows update entirely, install GWX (the guy could have a voluntary donation of $5 for this tool and make a packet!) and nuke BITS / WUAUSERV on startup.
And advised everyone else to do the same as well as make full backups just in case, preferably on something that can't be altered.
Of course, no doubt M$ will soon change the service name to mess up GWX, or some other devious method such as adding its signature to MSE/Defender/etc.
What next, putting 10 in the slack space on DVDs from the shop/free with magazines/preinstalled on new pendrives/etc? FFS.
Don't bother using XP/Vista on an older machine either, nothing now works because even Firefox *requires* SSE2 so anything with an older BIOS and no microcode update simply doesn't work despite passing the minimum requirements for 7 otherwise.
The S370 CPU actually has SSE2 enabled as well which really sucks.
2400 A06 might work and just found this update circa 2004.
Of course knowing my luck this will hose it completely, will have to be very careful and/or save the BIOS chip from a scrap machine.
Maybe it will fix the ongoing fan issues which surfaced shortly after the last upgrade?
Yep, too late Microsoft.
I too have completely disabled Windows Update on all my boxen, because I knew this was coming. It's only a matter of time before it gets schlepped as a "Security" update as well so I thought I may as well stop it cold while I'm still ahead.
I'll now be relying on my net savvy, my armamentarium of UBlock, NoScript, BetterPrivacy, Ghostery and RemoveItPermanently, and my non-Microsoft AV to shield me from the terrors of the internet - until I've replaced everything with Mint, which is coming along apace.
The correct plural of 'box' is 'boxes'. We are not German, or does it make you look especially cool?
Seriously, how much newfag to computing are you?
boxen /bok'sn/ pl.n.
[very common; by analogy with VAXen] Fanciful plural of box often encountered in the phrase `Unix boxen', used to describe commodity Unix hardware. The connotation is that any two Unix boxen are interchangeable.
Where's that program to disable it?
(Don't get me wrong, I quite like it. That is why it is installed on the laptop I want it installed in. I don't want it installed on my media centre box because some Muppet decided to sunset arguably the most family proof PVR and replace it with a DVD player)
I run windows XP and air-gapped windows 7 with all updates turned off. So far - no problems.
I run a system with XP with updates turned on (tell me if there are any setting) - makes Windows Security Center happy. So far - no problems. Periodically I've received Office 2007 updates that have installed and worked without problem, so it would seem the Office division of MS is still supporting 2007 on XP; we'll see if it is until October 2017 or not...
Microsoft Windows 10 Upgrade ... the creature from Hell that refuses to die! Silver bullet through the brain; wooden stake through the heart; decapitate, burn the head, mix the ashes with concrete and drop it at sea ... and the damned thing refuses to die!
Die, Upgrade Win10! DIE!!
"Die, Upgrade Win10! DIE!!"
soon to become an UNDEAD HORSE, unless...
somehow, the proverbial manure hits the proverbial fan, and Microsoft is *FORCED* to re-think what they've done with GWX. And someone[s] gets fired over it.
give it another few weeks, and this MAY happen, _ESPECIALLY_ if one of the class action lawsuits causes an INJUNCTION! After all, when you installed 7, you did *NOT* "agree" to GWX...
check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them. However since I refused to install the infamous KB3035583, Microsoft has punished me by no longer automatically checking for updates. Dear Microsoft, just contact me and see if I care about it!
If you're on Win 7, get rid of KB2952664, KB3083710, KB2999226 & KB3112343 as well.
My Win update is working fine, although of course in manual install mode these days.
You just have to make sure none of the above turn up again (including the KB3035583 one you mention).
If you're on Win 7, get rid of KB2952664, KB3083710, KB2999226 & KB3112343 as well.
Yeah. I just had KB3112343 creep up on the game machine.
This update enables support for additional upgrade scenarios from Windows 7 to Windows 10, and provides a smoother experience when you have to retry an operating system upgrade because of certain failure conditions. This update also improves the ability of Microsoft to monitor the quality of the upgrade experience.
Fuck off Microsoft. Just fuck off. I don't want your experience or monitoring.
Do please remember to give Microsoft your feedback by using the Feedback box they provide at the end of each KB article:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2952664
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3083710
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2999226
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3112343
I don't want your experience or monitoring.
Opportunity for a hacker to crack the monitoring stream and so enable the forced feeding of garbage data...
Bludgeoning users into an OS upgrade is a rather dim idea. Anyone who has upgraded Windows has learned to spend time preparing for it with data backups, locate all the software install media, locate hardware drivers, etc. Most users have never done an OS upgrade and doing one on the fly will lead to some badly crippled boxes. Some of these users have access to lawyers who can break the EULA.
Let the lawsuits begin.
"Most users have never done an OS upgrade and doing one on the fly will lead to some badly crippled boxes. "
Correctamundo, though sometimes the crippling may not immediately be visible.
One of my neighbours allowed a Win10 upgrade to start on his nearly-new ordered-with-Win7 no-name PC.
The upgrade failed (incompatible hardware, not detected before the upgrade) and attempted to roll back, and on the surface the roll back has succeeded; he still has a Windows 7 PC on the surface.
Unfortunately it looks as though the failed upgrade made some irreversible and incompatible changes to the on-disk file structure, which have caused some not immediately visible issues.
E.g. A scandisk always reports errors and schedules a repair for the next reboot. The repair always fails.
E.g. The event log frequently has stuff in it about "file not accessible, on disk structure is corrupt". Never says which application had a problem though. (If anyone cared, I could get the exact event log details).
E.g. The anti-virus apparently hasn't been able to do a proper full scan since the structure changed, but hasn't bothered to warn the user about this (Avast, paid-for). Malwarebytes manages a full scan OK and always comes back clean.
There's more, but that'll do for now. None of these problems existed before the upgrade attempt. They all started after the upgrade attempt.
This is not a low-risk upgrade, whatever MS may tell people.
Yep, a friend accepted MS's kind invitation to migrate from Windows 8 to Windows 10. No, she did not back-up - she had no idea why that might be necessary; she is not a computer person. Welcome to the "Windows 10 password wrong after update" problem and a month without a PC with no idea how to fix it or who to turn to. If you are lucky you can trigger a roll-back - she wasn't - that needed the non-existent password too (why??). Took me about 8 hours, and several blind alleys, to get in, get Windows 10 to complete upgrade ..and then make a backup. Required decrypting the ESD on my Mac's Win 10 (virtual) installation so I could then build an ISO and create an install/repair disk (glad I still have at superdrive MBP). Then working out how to fiddle the BIOS so I could boot her machine from said disk (ever heard of a 'novo' key?). Then a bit a low-level hacking of the system to creat a new Admin account. Oh, and accessing her barely used Microsoft on-line account to set a password under my control and then associating that with her locked local admin account. Easy - any bloody fool could do it. Dear Microsoft if my friend was not a friend that would be a £700 bill; although next time it will only be £200 because I have been up the learning curve and I have the install disk. FFS force a back-up on people before starting the upgrade process - because your programmers are not half as effin clever as they think they are.
@Marcus Fil - Having do various OS upgrades through the years, I have seen some strange things happen. Also, I would be surprised if allt the data files were found. Not because of the tech's incompetence but because so idiot decide data files should not be written to My Documents. Try chasing those down when you do not even know which programs are doing and where the data actually is.
My concern is for the unsuspecting user who is faced with a cryptic error message after a botched install.
Of course it is a dumb idea. Have you seen the Microsoft parties videos on youtube in the last few years? Since Ballmer and now with Nadella it is getting even way worse. Really some heavy drugs there at Microsoft. It is not a software company anymore. It is a shameful mess of a company.
For this reason, a couple of months ago, I returned to dual-boot with Linux (Mint) as my primary platform. Windows 7 is the other boot, the network adapter is disabled, and is used only for scanning (I never said *everything* about Linux, finally, is, "it just works!") and Flight Simulator.
While it's devious - there is is at least one good thing about this -
it might encourage Microsoft to do something about the dreaded 32% / 6% drivers and features issues. But then...... as there are now 4 separate KB patches that all aim to deal with Windows Update and SVCHOST hogging the CPU, overheating laptops and Windows Update never actually finding updates - I won't hold my breath that they will be particularly bothered about tens of thousands of people who are forced to upgrade to Windows 10 only to find that half way through the process the upgrade hangs at 32% and rolls back to Windows 7 at which point Windows Update will refuse to find any updates and in some cases Windows 7 has been unbootable. I have spent 5 solid days trying to convince a Toshiba laptop to update to Windows 10 - and in the end I had to give up and install Windows 7 from a retail disc instead of the OEM disc and then immediately update to Windows 10 skipping all the usual 295 windows updates. A quick Google for "windows 10 upgrade stuck at 32" shows lots of people have this issue and all Microsoft can say is that it is a driver issue - one would think Windows 10 would just skip any problematic drivers and complain about them post install, but no - it just hangs with no errors and because the HDD light just flashes periodically - non technical people will probably still think it's doing something..... for about 4 hours until they finally give up.
Two fails.
Fail 1: relatively recent Toshiba netbook.
Graphics driver didn't work, tried everything but still stuck at half its rated resolution.
Put 7 back on, installed GWX. Simplez!
Fail 2: Acer 5220, 5630/5730 C2D 2GB RAM Intel GL960
To even get 10 working at all I had to disable every enhancement in the BIOS.
Despite Windows 7 working fine it BSODs during the update resulting in an unbootable system.
I had to underclock my RAM (2*1GB) to 333 MHz using spdtool then it finally worked.. and
the damnable update hang AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!
Put 7 back on, installed GWX.
This might be a BIOS issue though as its on 1.35 on all three, with 2GB+1GB it runs 7 but for stability reasons I use it with 2*1GB as certain apps like Winhex seem happier.
Also turned off Core *1 as this helps with overall stability (probably a good reason why they shipped these with a 540 Celery)
The Windows update servers are riddled with bad drivers, it's no surprise so many upgrades fail. They don't seem to even test 64bit support on systems with 4Gb or more ram. Only 1 driver they installed caused instant kernel panics but that hardware is still unusable in win10. Just got lucky it doesn't crash till you try using it or I'd have had an unbootable pc to diagnose.
And they've been auto selecting the win10 upgrade for months...
I had the same roll-back issue with Win updates no longer working.
I was on Win 7 64bit, updated to Win 10 (just to see what it was like really). Has lots of issues, So I rolled back to Win 7 after about 2 weeks of trying to fix things.
It took me a little while to realise that Windows Update was no longer checking for updates.
I then noticed that adding new music files to the Music folder, wasn't being added to the music library in Windows Media Player, my AV was no longer running scheduled checks, and my system backup had stopped auto running etc. etc.
It turns out anything that used Windows Task Scheduler was no longer working :-/
It seems restoring to your previous OS, messes up the scheduler, which is what was running all the above, now failing, processes!
You can confirm this is the issue, by going into 'Task Scheduler', selecting the scheduler library, then trying to view any task from the list. You'll get an error if it's corrupt.
Seems the format changed in Win 10, and it doesn't recover the earlier Win 7 tasks on roll-back!
Been there, done that.
The answer is to make sure that you do a backup before W10 gets anywhere near your system so that you can roll back to that rather than relying on the W10 rollback "feature". It also means that you aren't stuck if you delay that return more than a month.
Mind you, I only did it because I've seen too many updates on too many systems, Windows, Unix and Linux, go boobies up to trust something like that.
you can expect to get a lot more technical support calls from friends and family who don't know what's going on
Or not. The elderly relative for whom I act as the tech support runs Linux (specifically OpenSUSE with a XFCE desktop), which I set up for her. Has worked well for her needs, which include mainly e-mail, online banking and light web browsing.
... it struggles to live on, but clearly it's likely to die anyhow.
The times when Windows upgrades happened automatically, because every n years more new PCs were bought than there already were, are over. Since roughly a decade PCs have a useful lifespan of 5-10 years. Additionally most of the Windows software in production use today was written in the 1990, full of technologies which seemed cool at the time, but now are long obsolete and often not found in current versions of Windows. One example is DCOM which is crucial for industrial applications.
It's foolish to build a new system based on Windows. Even if Microsoft survives another decade, they probably will regularly break your software by force upgrading computers to a new version of their OS.
My current home PC was built just before the release of 7 so of course was built with XP, it still runs well as I overspecced it when I built it.
Terabytes of HDD
Quad core
lots of RAM (all XP can use)
It runs really well and it is old.
Why should I replace it when it works well?
There is one Windows system I still support in my Friends/Family circle. IT is running Windows 7 but despite repeated efforts it keeps downloading the whole W10 distro. Finally the other day, the small SSD filled up.
That was the last straw.
As soon as I can sort it out that PC is going to the recycler and the user will be running OSX. I've just about had enough of Microsoft.
I have to work with Server 2012/16 and god what a total balls up they have made of it compared to Server 2008-R2. (Just my opinion though). What idiot decided that you must have a sodding great icon when you drag/drop appearing right where you want to drop the file. Despite lots of searching I can't find a way to turn off the effing thing.
I'd like to as one poster has already stated, feed them cattle shit (including dung beetles) until they either come to their senses or die. I don't really care which.
"I'd like to as one poster has already stated, feed them cattle shit (including dung beetles) until they either come to their senses or die. I don't really care which."
My venture into organic farming could prove more profitable than I thought.
How many gallons do you want?
I've got a 6 year-old computer, core i7 960, SSD, nVidia card.
It upgraded flawlessly and easily to Windows 10.
And there is essentially zero learning curve going from Windows 7 to Windows 10 on the same desktop.
The UI is the same.
On desktops, Metro is hidden away and I'd need to dig in the settings before I'd know it even existed.
Zero learning curve?
What, for you, or for the rest of humanity?
People expect, not unreasonably if they were using Win7, to still have quick access to the things they had before.
And that they don't have.
Win8 > Win10 is a bit less daunting but then we all know that Win8 was a complete fiasco.
Just wondering how far up the ladder the culling of personel will go when the bill for this latest balls-up has to be paid.
For sure, it is a balls-up.
For sure, someone's going to have to pay.
I've got an ancient Thinkpad T40 with 1G ram that I take to work for surfing and email. I just wiped Win7 and installed Linux Mint Mate, and it's working fine for those uses, surprisingly just as well as its twin with Win7 and 1.5G ram.
It's reached the point where dealing with the updates, going through a long list of ones to avoid because of spyware or Win10 is more trouble than finding and learning new programs in a new OS.
"Large file copies and loads, intensive graphics / gaming, etc., etc."
no, not true; in fact, games written for OpenGL and/or SDL should OUTPERFORM ActiveX games. Unfortunately, most game developers "drank the coolaid" and went with ActiveX; but not ALL...
As for 'large file copies' I think THAT claim can SWIFTLY be DE-BUNKED. This is because Linux does WRITE-CACHEING (background physical write), whereas Microsoft does "paranoid cacheing" [i.e. wait for physical write to disk before continuing].
I did some performance testing of XP vs BSD and Linux a while back. XP results were always SLOWER, particularly for ACROSS THE NETWORK copies, using Samba vs windows 'share', on reasonably identical hardware. The network protocols went FASTER with BSD and Linux. And DISK WRITES were ALSO faster with BSD and Linux. And though 7's performance may have improved a TINY BIT over XP, it's well known it got WORSE in 8, and *MAYBE* slightly better in 10.
But without PROPER WRITE CACHING, there is NO way it could be faster than Linux or BSD to copy large files on Windows. Not in a FAIR test.
I had a chat with someone else about open source who wasn't happy about Office 365 charges. He's installing Libre Office and, after reading about what Win 7, 8 and 10 captures, he's thinking about moving to linux (His father has been on Mint for a year now; I did the conversions a while ago.)
Keep it up, M$. Contrary to zoo instruction, you're feeding the penguins and nothing good will come of it (for you, anyway).
I think I prefer the original words to go with the picture : "You. Will. Be. Exterminated". Because that more accurately reflects the experience that some people will have. For those who are unfortunate to run into problems, this downgrade will cause loss of use of their PCs - for some time or permanently if they can't revert successfully.
Microsoft have made a very public threat to cause potential harm to some people's PCs - why are they getting away with it?
Not what Microsoft intended, and will be more of a pain for me since I'll have to manually update them every few months (after carefully deselecting the Windows 10 updates unless they hide them as "security update for your Windows 7 computer" or other generic nonsense)
Look for Windows 7 to be the target of a lot of exploits over the next few years as many people end up turning off updates to get around this crap. Maybe that's what Microsoft really wants, hoping that the exploited computer will be seen as "slow" and trigger the purchase of a new PC.
Only problem for Microsoft is that "new PC" might be a Mac, or a tablet or "ever since my PC started having problems I've been getting along fine with my phone and borrowing a friend's computer once a month when I need a real PC, so I really don't really need to own one at all".
I'm not especially anti-anything, with the sole exception of MS's forced uodate/upgrade crapola. For various annoying reasons (ok, just two) I have had to keep Win running ... (W7 Enterprise). Oddly, after locking it down tighter than a duck's arse, it is stable, never mysteriously updates, and I can even use mobile data without fearing a petabyte-sized slurp. I know this will not last, even with my Baldrickesque machinations to secure the Fortress, but by Harry, it's kept me lean and stable for until now.
Win will continue to exist in Chez Moi, but only on a dedicated and mostly air-gapped device. Oh, and in a VM if I can get that stable and so on.
There. After that refreshing (for me at least) diatribe, I'll have me tea. Non-upgraded.
awwww .... c'mon .... who plugged the downvote there?
Just curious as I didn't go all M$ shrill or Linux-hysterical on anyone. Hell, we have Win, OS X, Linux, iOs and various 'droid flavours in Chez Moi - just the way it is.
Ah well, tea calls (again).
Don't try to divine the meaning of a random downvote or two, it is not uncommon to see one or two to seemingly uncontroversial posts. It is odd that I didn't get any downvotes and you got one, but for a while there was someone who had taken offense to a few of my posts (too pro Apple for his taste I guess) who was downvoting every one of my posts no matter what the subject. Maybe you have acquired a similar 'stalker' :)
And if the update doesn't work, or the PC becomes unstable, or whatever then what? Giant hassle of re-installing Windows 7 from scratch to get back to where it is now, and I still have the problem of how to avoid Windows 10. Or are you living in dreamland and assuming a 100.0% success rate with every automated upgrade? I have no experience with Windows 10 and while it might be similar it isn't identical so when they do have problems it will waste more of my time trying to figure out how to fix them.
Why should my parents and me go through ANY additional hassle and take even the SMALLEST risk of problems just because Microsoft wants to get them aboard the data collection machine known as Windows 10? Windows 10 provides them exactly ZERO benefit and will not improve their PC usage experience in any way whatsoever. What's in it for them?
If the manufacturer of your car decided they wanted you to bring your car in for service and leave it for the entire week so they could replace the engine with one they assured you was identical, but might not be quite identical, and would collect metrics about how many rpms it was at during different times of the day or whatever, would you simply do it because they say so? Not talking about a recall, since it isn't a safety issue or fixing something that is broken, it was just because they wanted to and there were no guaranteed benefits over the engine you have now other than your warranty that now runs until 2020 would be extended a bit. I think you would say "my engine works perfectly fine now and I see no reason to inconvenience myself by bringing it in, and risking that maybe my mileage will not be as good and possibly waste time getting used to different noises it makes from the ones it makes now, and the data collection thing is not for my benefit"
For what it's wo5rth, I decided to see what the fuss was all about, and am now downloading the installation iso. That way I can say quite truthfully, I've gone the extra mile ... Microsoft can't fault me for that, can they? (The polite word is "gullibility" but I don't mind ... :)
I do wish I could get ahold of a Windows 8.1 iso, though, so that I can wipe the current installation with Sabayon or something of that sort and run MSWin 8.1 in a virtual machine for those things that Linux still can't do as well as MSWindows ...
BTW, do you think now is a good time to register Microsoft Widnows 3.1?
I do wish I could get ahold of a Windows 8.1 iso, though, so that I can wipe the current installation with Sabayon or something of that sort and run MSWin 8.1 in a virtual machine for those things that Linux still can't do as well as MSWindows ...
3.1?https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows8ISO
BTW, do you think now is a good time to register Microsoft Widnows
Why? I never bothered...
The first phase of my contingency plan is going well. Selenium has enabled me to stop being dependent on IE11 for my VBA driven web browser. That means I'm only dependent on Firefox staying compatible with Selenium and W7 to maintain internet-facing security.
The next step will be to see if I can make Libre/Free Office replace the MS Office 10 VBA. Then the final step will be to move that combination to Linux Mint. It will mean investing time in modifying open source if necessary - but that can be considered a fun task.
I upgraded my families computers to windows 10 as soon as it came out. Since last July I have had very few issues. None that I didnt have before. Everyone is really happy with the way it looks and feels.
I disabled as much crap as I could, all the notifications and pointless bits.
To be able to go to the windows store, download a few fun free windows games for my mum to play has bee great. Much easier than searching the web for compatible programs.
I understand peoples frustrations who are very happy with Windows 7. it is wrong for Microsoft to push 10 so much and so hard. But overall 10 has been fine for me and everyone I have installed it for. Yes there are privacy issues, but lets not kid ourselves, there are privacy issues in so many more things. I am much more concerned with what the government is trying to snoop on than Microsoft. We know Microsoft is doing it for profits, what is the government doing it for?
"it is wrong for Microsoft to push 10 so much and so hard."
You have to ask yourself why they are doing that. They are trying equally hard to retrofit the "spyware" to W7 and W8 - so there has to be a reason for pushing W10 other than making the users' personal data the "product".
My bet is still on some form of W10 subscription - stop paying and you lose access. MS can't have failed to notice that Adobe apparently increased their profits via that route.
I will tell you why MS is pushing so hard for Windows 10, since apparently it is not obvious.
Windows 7 is insecure, as is all complex software, and the insecurities are too widely known.
Removing the known insecurities from Windows 7 was difficult and expensive, and what was created in doing so was Windows 10.
Maintaining 4 OSs, adapting them to new hardware, fixing the inevitable vulnerabilities as they are discovered, and so on is much more effort than maintaining one OS.
The big complaint with Windows 8 and to an extent 8.1 was simply that the UI was different from Windows 7. That complaint has been fully addressed, so that customers can switch over and so that MS can save money by not having so many OSes to maintain.
It is true that by giving us a free operating system that is so much more efficient and multi-threading than Windows 7 it will decrease hardware sales -- hardware people shouldn't be happy -- but money saved on hardware is money available for spending on software. Part of the money I saved by not needing to buy a new computer I used to upgrade from Office 2010 to Office 365.
I will tell you why MS is pushing so hard for Windows 10, since apparently it is not obvious.
Oh goody! I haven't had a chance to do one of these in ages!
Windows 7 is insecure, as is all complex software, and the insecurities are too widely known.
Windows, ANY Windows, is by nature insecure. As a colleague of mine said on a number of occasions; "There is no such thing as completed code, just code in a high state of debug". The thing is that taking this into account, Windows 10 is as likely to contain bugs as anything else, especially as it shares some of its code with prior versions, possibly going back to Vista or even XP.
As for how widely known these insecurities are, any hacker out there worth his salt will be well aware of most of the insecurities in any currently available or used OS and, if they aren't, they will be working towards finding them. It's how such folk as Sophos and Kaspersky and many others make their cash.
Removing the known insecurities from Windows 7 was difficult and expensive, and what was created in doing so was Windows 10.
The problem I have with this is that a number of the "insecurities" were quite obviously plugs put there to promote the new product rather than anything that did a useful job. The gadgets were a good example of that. It was a big selling point of Vista and 7 yet half way through the life cycle they gave up on them, citing "vulnerabilities" then shifting users onto the app store. Expensive? Probably, but they aren't hurting for cash - although having said that, they certainly felt the hurt with the failure of W8.
Maintaining 4 OSs, adapting them to new hardware, fixing the inevitable vulnerabilities as they are discovered, and so on is much more effort than maintaining one OS.
Quite so, but one has to ask "who made them do it"? They chose to release a new OS three or so years after W7 which flopped because it didn't do what the customer wanted. They are now releasing another based on the best or worst bits of the last version and the version before because they suddenly realised their mistake yet aren't willing to give up on what they did wrong. Yet after, as you say, spending all that money making W7 less vulnerable, they still insist on bringing out something that doesn't fit in and, to make things worse, forcing the damn thing down our throats.
The big complaint with Windows 8 and to an extent 8.1 was simply that the UI was different from Windows 7. That complaint has been fully addressed, so that customers can switch over and so that MS can save money by not having so many OSes to maintain.
Has it though? Windows 8.1 was merely a bug fix to sort out the broken "swipe gesture" interface and a cynical return of an icon in the bottom left corner that might pass as a "Start" button except that it didn't really do that. Everything else, apart from a few tweaks to the much unloved Startpanel, was exactly the same.
Now we get something that combines the Startpanel with a cut down start menu. That might be OK. Some people like that and I have to admit that when I first grappled with it back in the Betas... er sorry, Technical Demos, I thought it was a step in the right direction, but what we got in the end was not what we had in those Betas so much.
Then you add in the increasing amount of online intrusion (the so-called System as a Service) which is self defeating if what you actually need is a personal computer and the much unloved data slurp, and you get something that is almost certainly going to upset quite a few people.
It is true that by giving us a free operating system that is so much more efficient and multi-threading than Windows 7 it will decrease hardware sales -- hardware people shouldn't be happy -- but money saved on hardware is money available for spending on software. Part of the money I saved by not needing to buy a new computer I used to upgrade from Office 2010 to Office 365.
"Efficient?" "Multi-threading?" Sources please. Having used both, I'm still not convinced of a change here and most of those folk that have said as much so far have often been a little... biased?
As more than one person has pointed out, you are NOT getting a "free operating system". What you are getting is a beta version of system. You and others like you are being used as a testing ground for what is almost certainly going to be the actual release come this July, and the degree of freedom that you are going to have will depend on what data you give them and how they will see the licence going forward from July.
On the up side they may kill the data slurp, restore the Update control and leave us with something that might do the job. On the down side they will leave it exactly the way it is but charge you on a regular basis for its use. They aren't letting on about which it will be but you have to remember that the company is in it for the money and will get it one way or another.
"I will tell you why MS is pushing so hard for Windows 10, since apparently it is not obvious."
actually, it _IS_ obvious, but your point of "cost cutting" for OS maintenance is only a PART of it. I'd consider up-voting you for getting that ONE aspect right.
The MAIN reason they push so hard for windows 10 is that they COMPLETELY BLEW IT and want to "save face". Otherwise, why would W10 have the OBVIOUS FAIL of that UGLY FLAT 2D LOOK like "Ape" (8)??? Sinofsky COMPLETELY SCREWED THE POOCH with that, and the tile screen, and "the METRO". And yet, some of THE WORST of that ended up in 10 anyway...
"Saving Face" indeed. Even while being wrong. They're going to STAY wrong, and FORCE EVERYONE ELSE onto the bandwagon, whether you want it or not, DANGIT, and it's MICROSOFT'S WAY or THE HIGHWAY.
In addition to "cost cutting", which would sell well to the board of directors...
[but Microsoft forgot Business 101, the CUSTOMER is ALWAYS RIGHT, and Burger King's "have it your way" is the EPITOME of that, not Microsoft's "Take it OUR way, or we SHOVE IT DOWN YOUR THROAT"]
ULTIMATELY, however, it came from this: The Product Lifecycle!
a normal product lifecycle peaks and then drops off. you want to replace it with SOMETHING before the drop-off, to extend the product line. Unfortunately, a lot of factors caused desktop windows SALES to decline, mostly W8, Moore's law going 'wide' (# cores) instead of 'tall' (speed), and the perception that "new" is not necessarily "better than what you have" [W8 pretty much staked that one into the ground]. And most of these have NOTHING to do with people 'switching over' to slabs/phones, because people have NOT done this (MS got THAT wrong, too). But Microsoft produced a PHONE OS for the desktop, and focused on their recently purchased PHONE business, slabs, and FORCING people to "up"grade at MICROSOFT's convenience. Predictable fail results.
"The big complaint with Windows 8 and to an extent 8.1 was simply that the UI was different from Windows 7. That complaint has been fully addressed"
No, actually, it hasn't - the difference is so profound that it blows people's minds; certainly those who just use computers, rather than play with them for fun.
What possible reason you can have for saying that, I simply won't speculate upon.
I upgraded (clean install) friends and family to W10 and have had no problems at all. I expected some issues but they are very happy with their OS.
Other tech people, you dont need lots of silly tools, set the 2 reg keys in this article and you will get no upgrade or notifications
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351
I can't understand why people are obsessed with using 3rd party utils, or hiding updates to do this when the process is documented and easy
Also the magic bullet it to use Windows 7 or 8.1 Enterprise. These are not eligable for the upgrade and never download the W10 nagware in the first place.
According to the MS shilling scripts there are too few Linux users to notice if they complain!
When MS screw over their 'lots of users' they can't complain about the scale of the response... yet the weasels do, while ignoring the content of the complaints. When Canonical screw over that negligible (it's in the MS shilling pack so it must be true) Ubuntu user base, they get lots of complaints and eventually back down.
Previously my experience was Windows, never do an over the top upgrade (wipe and present qualifying media, in the old days). With OS X it always worked.
Windows 10 has gone on fine to every machine I have tried (four so far). (Getting it to upgrade was the challenge, every time I have had to force it with media creator, and usually do lots of updates first).
El Capitan failed disastrously the time I tried it and required a complete wipe and fresh install.
(I actually own an Intel Mac that would upgrade to 10, but not El C)
Rule One: Never upgrade over an existing OS. Generally it has been my habit in recent years to replace the system drive if I am changing OS anyway, whether it's Windows or Linux. The only exception was when I was testing W10 and the machine that I had it on gave me no choice as it was an OEM install.
Rule Two: If you do have to upgrade, do a backup first.
Rule Three: Nah Pooftas! (Well spotted, Bruce!)
Rule Four: Protect your data. If you suspect that it may be compromised, even by accident because you didn't set something up correctly, disconnect your data.
Rule Five: There is NO rule five.
Rule Six: Always prepare for the worst. My preference is Wadworth's 6X or Abbot.
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I woke up to the computer screen sporting none of my desktop garbage files, but a clean, Windows-blue, pure as, well, Windows 10?! I thought "oh you FUCKERS, how did you slip this through when I was so careful?!", until I fully woke up and realized it must have, somehow logged in to some obscure user account / profile I never knew existed :D
Dammit. At home I dual boot Linux and Windows 7. I don't want it forcing Win10 on me (I've literally just rolled it back, as one day the machine blue screened and rebooted and then no USB devices would work at all in Windows. It was the final straw). However, my home PC is about 90% used for games and half of them (even on Steam) won't work on Linux.
Curses. I'm weighing up the pros and cons now :\
However, my home PC is about 90% used for games and half of them (even on Steam) won't work on Linux.
I suspect that is one of the major reasons home users are still suffering windows. Perhaps (wishful thinking, I know) this Win10 farce will finally start pushing games publishers embrace Linux to keep customers thare running away from Windows in droves.
Yep. Start Menu has stopped working for me on two completely independent installs of W10, different machines entirely.
If I can't guarantee a user the bloody Start menu will work, I can't go there.
Anyone know why this happens? Is it because it's busy loading in tiles and game ad bobbins rather than being a...uh....Start menu?
2:1 odds they'll "accidentaly" forget to turn off the forced upgrades but remember to demand a credit card payment to get past the boot menu.
Then they'll do what we all expect and extend the free upgrade offer before the law catches up with them bricking machines with win10 ransomware ;)
Now that is a really good question.
I think there is a good chance they'll extend the 1 year free upgrade. Already Windows 10 is on 1/3 as many computers as Windows 7. It dwarfs Windows 8 use. And it has passed Windows 8.1 use.
If MS thinks that extending the free upgrade will reduce its maintenance expenses, I think they'll extend it.
I think at least they're likely to extend it for Windows 8 and 8.1 where there is a good chance of reducing the user base to less than 1% of internet connected computers.
But that is just my speculation.
If MS thinks that extending the free upgrade will reduce its maintenance expenses, I think they'll extend it.
I think at least they're likely to extend it for Windows 8 and 8.1 where there is a good chance of reducing the user base to less than 1% of internet connected computers.
Meanwhile, how are they doing getting the remaining percentage of Windows XP users shifted?
"I think there is a good chance they'll extend the 1 year free upgrade. Already Windows 10 is on 1/3 as many computers as Windows 7. It dwarfs Windows 8 use. And it has passed Windows 8.1 use."
If I read this correctly, you think that ~7 months of "this", with W10 being *FREE*, and ONLY being 1/3 of the number of 7 holdouts is GOOD progress? in light of MS shoving up/down/into various customer orifices with the latest "might as well be MANDATORY" 'update' is a sign it's NOT working...
but they may continue with the 'free upgrade', like you said. not because it's WORKING, but because it is NOT working!
My mum (in her 70's) has Windows 8.1 on a laptop which she has no end of issues with on how to do things. I remotely help her with issues she has as she lives in Spain.
Auto-installing Windows 10 I fear will confuse her even more than 8.1
Looks like it'll be easier to bite the bullet, go pick up a macbook, fly over and take it to her to replace windows hell.
Did your mom use Windows 7? How long ago? Do you think she remembers how it works?
That is the thing, Windows 8 and 8.1 were UI mistakes. There was a learning curve.
There is almost no learning curve going from 7 to 10, but that does not help people going from 8 or 8.1 to 10.
I never used either flavour of 8, but people did say 7 was easier to use. If 7 was easier to use, then 10 is easier to use.
But if the problem was that 8 required learning, then someone who has only ever used 8 have a learning curve to adapt to Windows 7 or 10.
Did your mom use Windows 7? How long ago? Do you think she remembers how it works?
That is the thing, Windows 8 and 8.1 were UI mistakes. There was a learning curve.
W8.x was a marketing f*ck up, pure and simple. It isn't the end of the world though - I've stuck Classic Shell onto more than one W8.x machine. It takes a few minutes and the thanks are reward enough!
I sympathise; in my case it's me in the UK trying to support my daughter with 8.1 in Oz. Oh,and she's on mobile broadband.
(As an interim fall-back precaution in case of problems, I've sent her Live Mint on a stick.)
The fact that some people are happy with W10 on a new machine, or after a pain-free upgrade, is nice for them. But completely irrelevant to the ethical and technical risk issues of a forced upgrade.
Sadly your chance was there when they offered the 25 quid upgrade to W8.
A bit of fancy footwork and you could do a clean install of 64 bit W8 Pro on 32 bit Vista machines. A touch of Start Menu freeware and Robert is your relative of choice. I did two machines and they are both still flying along.
Agreed they could hoover up Vista but how mamy people out there are still running it?
Perhaps there will be a cut price paid option (like W8) once the year runs out.
Or find a W7 licence?
"Agreed they could hoover up Vista but how mamy people out there are still running it?"
well, someone I know runs Vista on a Vaio [it came WITH it], has no major problems doing so (other than occasional irritations and slow startup), and I've got at least 1 Vista license key for Home/Premium if I ever need it...
that assumes that 7 may some day be FORCIBLY "UP"graded to W10 if I'm not careful. Vista won't, making me "safe".
It can be done sometimes.
Some Vista machines have a BIOS that includes System-Locked Pre-installation 2.1 (or the latest BIOS update includes it).
This activates Windows 7 automatically, if the correct OEM version is used. This will then update to 10.
The rule of thumb appears to be if the same machine was available later with 7 it works, if it was available earlier with XP it doesn't (but XP users can put Vista on)
What I don't know is if the install is completely legitimate (ie the OEM paid for a Win 7 license, but installed Vista). But if the machine is second hand and the COA is illegible, then one would have to assume that the activation system correctly detects the machine's OEM licensing.
The upgrade is "free" for a year.
However you can apparently download the ISO.
So what will prevent you from using the ISO after more than a year?
Licence activation?
Just checking because I am resisting upgrading because I don't like being pushed but I am ancient enough to remember similar comments about "out of my cold dead hands" each time a new version of Windows surfaces.
Two or three years down the line there will still be the vociferous deniers but they will be nothing more than background noise on a few tech sites (sorry guys) and most of the world will be on W10.
Microsoft know this which is why (I assume) that they couldn't really give a shit about any bad publicity because getting the herd onto W10 will avoid the problems they had through not forcing people off XP.
The gains from having everyone on the same OS and not having to support several versions are so large that pissing techies off for a couple of years, and losing a fraction of 1% of systems to Mint, aren't really an issue.
Anyway, question is, can I reserve a free update now for use later?
Icon -> for the biggest hat I could see to ward off the incoming shower of shit........
Upgraded to 10 on main machine at Christmas, all seemed fine, then mid Jan noticed that my accounting software started to play up. Sage would run but the page selecting tabs were all white, so considerable time is spent trying to guess where the tab is (I also did graphic driver updates, and downgrades to earlier versions). Then my payroll software refused to run, throwing .NET errors all over the place, and the other week I wanted to update my Garmin, but the garmin software refused to install.
In the end I went back to 8.1 (multi hdds in PC)
I don't have anything fancy on my machine, I simply reflect other businesses, but my view on 10 is that it's ok for consumers, but dangerous for businesses.
As far as I am concerned, Windows 10 is still in beta
I upgraded back in November, and Windows 10 is working great. UI is almost exactly the same as Windows 10.
Biggest change is speed, it make much better use of multi-core CPUs.
Second biggest change is even fewer system problems.
Those who don't want to upgrade because it is Microsoft doing this instead of Apple, maybe switch to Apple or Linux.
You can't control Microsoft -- but you can control yourself !!! If you think Apple or Linux is better, switch.
Yeah, exactly, more adopt Windows than leave it.
'Yeah, exactly, more adopt Windows than leave it.'
Because most 'average' people don't know they have a choice, so they just suck it up and carry on. That's how MS are getting away with the vast majority of what are, effectively, forced W10 installs.
If folk think their choice of car is only available in one colour, I wonder which one they'll go with.
He doesn't have to be an MS representative to have had a good experience upgrading to Windows 10; My home PC (used 95% of the time for gaming) has been upgraded from Windows 7 to 8 to 8.1 and now to Windows 10 with absolutely no issues, all games and software work fine (190+ games in Steam). I also upgraded both of my laptops from 8.1 to 10, again with no problems at all. Also have done four or five of friends and neighbours PC's, some of which are "general" PC's and some are "gaming" rigs, and as with the previous ones, none of them have experienced any issues with Windows 10, with one exception. An fairly old flatbed scanner that is no longer supported by HP on Windows 10.
He doesn't have to be an MS representative to have had a good experience upgrading to Windows 10
True, and not all users are Microsoft fanbois or shills either. Not all systems fall flat on their arses when upgraded either, though some users never notice the faults that can sometimes be inherent in a system that is upgraded rather than clean installed, probably because they don't necessarily know what to look for.
Where you have to ask questions, however, is when somebody talks up a product and tries to justify this by his words alone and gives no real sources. I've been using MS-DOS since V1 and have used most of the Windows versions at some point or other as well as Unix, Linux and a few other OSs that you may or may not have heard of, and I will often refer to my experience here and elsewhere but I will normally expect readers to take that with a pinch of salt where necessary, especially if I state something that isn't being verified by a source.
As for the scanner, it may be possible to find a third party driver out there to bridge the gap, but you may have a wait on your hands since driver writers are, as far as I can see, still catching up with the new release.
"I upgraded back in November, and Windows 10 is working great. UI is almost exactly the same as Windows 10."
Well, yeah, W10 is similar to W10, good call. FYI, X is normally similar to X, whatever X you're talking about. Is a tautology ...
"Biggest change is speed, it make much better use of multi-core CPUs."
Ah, really ? You've been able to see that ? How ? Benchmark ? FYI, office users only use 10% of 1 core whenever they're doing a lot of stuff. So only 1 core out of 4 is busy, throughout the whole day. It's beyond me how you could see that. The only Windows app I've seen use multi-threading is a video conversion app, and last I checked, it was fully using all 4 cores at 100%. Would be interesting to see how W10 is doing better.
"Second biggest change is even fewer system problems."
Very factual. How many did you get with W7 ? And what is a "system problem" ?
You sound to not being able to distinct bottoms from elbrows, to be honest, or work for MS ...
"Those who don't want to upgrade because it is Microsoft doing this instead of Apple, maybe switch to Apple or Linux."
Good advise. Done.
Multicore
I run XP on my quad home and 7 on quad work
BOTH multi task fine.
At home I can watch an MPEG encoder happily use 2 or more cores while burning software uses a little of another core.
Yes my PC is powerful enough to MPEG encode, and burn a DVD of a previous encode at the same time.
Only one I stuck to single process was capturing.
I was converting a large number of old tapes to DVD.
I upgraded back in November, and Windows 10 is working great. UI is almost exactly the same as Windows 10.
Could you enlighten us as to how you managed to upgrade to Win10 and not get a UI that was exactly the same as Win10?
"Second biggest change is even fewer system problems."
You keep saying things like this. Have you taken note of even one of the posts here where an upgrade has failed or applications have broken?
Nor have you addressed the spyware aspects.
Nor the "I want to update and I want to update NOW" syndrome (I recently saw someone trying to give a demo of some S/W on his laptop. He switched on & the thing promptly started to install upgrades and then insisted, in typical Windows fashion, on a reboot).
As a consequence your posts lack credibility.
"Biggest change is speed, it make much better use of multi-core CPUs."
Dunno about that, I have on my desk at work a dual-core i7@2.8GHz laptop with W10 and a dual-core Core2Duo @ 2.5GHz laptop running Vista. Both have 250GB SSDs.
The machines feel very similar in responsiveness, and the new machine runs Vivado about 25% faster than the old machine (Vivado will run for a couple of hours at a time, and makes pretty good use of multiple cores during the place & route phases but is single-threaded the rest of the time).
Hey Shill, just updated my rolling release install of Antergos. Guess what no mandatory reboots, full information about the changes in each package, and last but no least it is working great. And it does not phone home to the mother ship with all my user activity.
I'm done.
I'll confess to having taken the Kobe steak on a stick wafted in front of my nose and upgraded from 7 to 10 - but it turned out to be a limp kebab in disguise.
I'm a screenwriter with tech interests - that's why I am lurking here. My choice of screenwriting software was made available for Linux, and I did me some tests on a old laptop. I didn't want to jump right away because, well, my main box is bread n' butter and all that.
I'm not impeded. I can carry on working, but without feeling uncomfortable that I am being spied on. Hell, even my AV vendor are now moving to a data-slurping model and I'm getting to the point where I'm practically wondering if I should be looking over my shoulder for anything other than the cat when I work.
And, for some reason (perhaps someone can help?) the font rendering just looks waaay nicer on Ubuntu to my eyes as I type. Mac-ish, you might even say. I can even set an hourly backup to another drive - something I thought I would miss from the easy-to-use equivalent in Windows or OSX.
I suppose overall I just want to turn the thing on and work, and not be worried about much else. Even the updates in 10 seem to take inordinately long on a machine with a good SSD and 16GB RAM. Certainly compared not only to Ubuntu but 7 - on 7 they used to just install, quick reboot, and done. Not anymore. I 'only' have a 15MB line but it feels more like 2 sometimes. I haven't checked by I wonder how much telemetry is going on (and yes I've disabled all the sharing and privacy stuff).
Hhhhm. Food for thought. I've used the main box less with 10 on it than I ever did before, and wonder if that's my answer right there. Time to be brave and make the switch?
> looking over my shoulder for anything other than the cat when I work.
Aha! The evil plan is working - training my many feline minions[1] in corporate espionage will pay off!
What's this? A plan of a tuna canning company?
[1] Who am I kidding? Mrs COCM has observed that I drop everything[2] and come running when SmallestTortie squeaks and blinks at me..
[2] No - not like that.
Chose to upgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 7. Completed a number of post-install changes to tighten up on the data snooping aspect a little and to be honest I'm loving Windows 10. Also a big fan of OneDrive (great value for money with Office 365) - but I really don't trust anyone with my data in the cloud so I use GoodSync to encrypt all my data before it goes up to OneDrive.
And once AMD got their act together with drivers I have not had a single stability issue since the upgrade.
However MS should calm down a bit with 'forcing' Windows 10 onto people - and they should not be trying to trick people into downloading it by accident - "recommended" - hmm.
And once AMD got their act together with drivers I have not had a single stability issue since the upgrade. Daz555
This style of report confirms that Win10 (the complete offer, not just MS's product) wasn't ready for prime time but is probably getting nearer to that state, and hence confirms my view not to update any systems until April 2016 at the earliest.
Also by that time I would hope that many printer vendors will have developed Win10 compatible drivers for widely used printers, so I can advise clients whether they will also need to purchase a new printer or not...
> Apple making OSX updates free has a similar effect
Strangely enough, I don't remember Apple sneaking OS version auto-updates into their update downloads.. Or popping up nag screens (more than once) to tell you that you must update. Or pre-downloading the OS update..
What it does do is pop up a notification that a new version is available in the App Store. If you chose not to update then it doesn't do any of the above..
Somewhere I know has custom software rolled out on 1000+ machines, built from a standard image.
The PC's that are imaged are Dell's with 8 on them, so no licence sticker on the back.
When 10 hits, if dumb users press OK, there will be startup folder fails, script fails, then "Invalid licence" fails.
Come Monday, all hell is going to break loose - support team already trying to hide under desks.
You'd hope those users didn't have admin rights on those PCs and therefore wouldn't be able to initiate an OS upgrade
Admin rights don't come into it until it's too late...
Remember the Windows Update setting: "Allow all users to install updates on this computer" which is enabled by default...
Er, 8.1 or 8?
There is no "free" 8 > 10 option.
Hopefully, though, tech support will know and will be able to pre-empted anyone's silliness or, better, will be tightly controlling the updates scheduling.
Oh, and no Win8 machine (or indeed, Win 8.1 or 10 machine) has a product key sticker on the back; the license is hard coded, as I understand it (quite how and where, though, is something you'll have to google for).
Forcing a new OS and a multi-gig download and install on customers? On the corporate side, there are applications in use out there that might break if the client changes OS. On the consumer side, there are data caps and old hardware out there that might get impacted by the forced upgrade.
This all lends credence to my theory that there is a secret clause in the U.S. DoJ vs. MS antitrust settlement that requires MS to make at least one boneheaded decision around desktop OS every 3 years or so.
Forcing a new OS and a multi-gig download and install on customers?
Suspect the reasoning is much much simpler...
Firstly, there is the rather incestuous shareholder relationship between big IT companies and the broadband suppliers.
Secondly, there is MS's move to always online and cloud, where to get a half decent UX you need FTTC rather than ADSL. You just need to play with an Xbox One to appreciate just how much it relies on a decent Internet connection. So the multi-gig download is just an early warning of what is to come...
Three days ago a Windows 10 update trashed my machine.
Update hung overnight and I had to spend an hour persuading it to restart.
After update was completed the machine was stuck in "Tablet Landscape" mode which is absolutely useless for a laptop.
Another two hours persuading it to undo all the updates and back to previous verison.
Video stopped working, and the menus needed to get to the recommended workarounds went haywire.
Another day of fiddling and rebooting got the whole shebang back to where I was last week.
It seems that MS only supports their own "surface" hardware and these days those with other machines are on their own.
Had a windows 10 machine with 16 gigs RAM and an i7 vs my 6 gigs RAM and i5
I ran Universal USB creator, job done in WINE in 1 min 30-odd secs
the Windows 10 machine after 5 hours died of battery failure.
I.kid.not.
This Friday a few others are bringing their laptops in to receive the mystical penguin.
Collectively (age range 18 - 32) now chanting a wonderful chorus of go fuck yourself MS.
"If you inadvertently upgrade that's not the end of it either – Microsoft is guaranteeing you'll be able to revert to your old installation within 30 days of trying Windows 10"
Sure.. But even if that succeds, MS is not guaranteeing that it will be working as it did before, are they?
MS are sort of douchebags nowadays. Even more than they used to be. Got some issues with differentiating between theirs and not theirs it seems.
"after the files have been silently downloaded and unpacked in the background."
Ah, no - this has been happening to my wife's fairly antiquitated dual-core AMD-mobile laptop which currently has Windows 7 on it. Something has been running in the background recently which I suspect is windows update, consuming CPU and disk resource and making it barely useable, and it has been running some ridiculous updates on shutdown - the other day it made her wait a couple of hours before allowing itself to shut down, while something like 21 updates were installed ... there is no way that Microsoft have released a pack of 21 mandatory updates for Win 7 on the same week!
My own Win 7 laptop has been running Suse Linux since before Christmas, which I'm very happy with. Perhaps time to convert the Missus to Linux ... or maybe I'll have to buy her a Macbook for her birthday, which I'll spend a lot less time supporting so might be worth the extra money.
Well, just restarted my computer - had all the updates turned off previously. Just saw for an instant in the notification area 'Microsoft installed new updates' which disapeared in about half a second. Checked the automatic updates and all turned on and updates showing for installation.
What a joke MicroShaft is.
Someone non-technical had a problem with a laptop which quite suddenly ran out of hard drive.
When it eventually got to me I discovered that there were 20Mbytes left on C:. Some cautious deletion got me a gigabyte so that I was able to take a look around.
It had been fitted with a 120Gbyte SSD for C: and a 500G magnetic disc in a second slot. The 500G just contained a few backups.
At which point I became suspicious. Yes, W10 had been downloaded into a C: drive with only a few Gbytes free, filling it up.
How hard would it have been for Microsoft to check partition sizes and ask before putting the download into the partition with the most free space? Or to admit that Windows is nowadays so hopelessly bloated that a C: partition of 120G is unsafe to do even an OS install?
As this isn't someone I am likely to see very often, I had to do a whole lot of rearranging, removal of unused programs and temp files, in order to leave enough space on C: to ensure no future problems. This is beyond the ability of the average user, and it is average users that are getting this crap foisted on them.
No more "contemplating a change" crap here.
I've moved the DAW and one live performance system to the new macbook (ouch there went my new toys budget), so the big gaming notebook can go on ebay shortly. The jukebox player netbook really should be replaced with a cheap android tablet. I had considered building a MS based media center but now that is out of the question. My parents are on Macs and I never get tech calls from them any more. My next door neighbor just bought a new notebook and I feel very sorry for him, but you know what my advice will be in the future.
We'll see how long vigilance and GWX Control Panel can keep the two dedicated gaming PCs tolerable. We all know how much Microsoft hates PC gaming. When will the "Buy an XBox" popups start appearing? They don't get it--the only reason there are 6 windows PCs in this house right now is because Windows runs games. This is the only reason there will still be one or two left by summer...
"They don't get it--the only reason there are 6 windows PCs in this house right now is because Windows runs games. This is the only reason there will still be one or two left by summer".
I cannot help but wonder what the open source take up would have been now if game makers had ported games to Linux at the same time as Windows?
I wouldn't mind betting that Microsoft wouldn't be quite so arrogant as it has become.
Some of the blame lies with the OS community, who were aloof to the GUI needs of users,the expansion of which only happened when the emulation of Windows took place & the games companies have yet to catch up as well.
I for one have wished for many a year,that Linux would steal Microsoft's thunder,I'm too old to be able to see that day arrive,I am however, very happy that there is such diversity of choice in the OS field of computing.
"I cannot help but wonder what the open source take up would have been now if game makers had ported games to Linux at the same time as Windows?"
You can get Steam for Linux (and Android). It's worth looking at.
And yes, it's likely to drive the transition.
I haven't read through all 5 pages of comments so this may have been mentioned already but has anyone tried
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351 ?
This seems to have the instructions you need to turn off upgrades
(including a registry key HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate
DWORD value: DisableOSUpgrade = 1)
PER USER. Globally.
I always used to check for, and install updates over lunch.
But, if my experience of installing Windows-10 goes, it'll take a day. OK, not for the upgrade itself - that only took 4 hours - but faffing about trying to find stuff that you just knew where it was yesterday...
I have a nice win 7 desktop. I in no way want win10 touching this, and yet down comes that 4gb update and all the telemetry bollocks with it. Bloody thing pretty much tied up my slow internet connection for an entire day, meaning i couldn't get on with what i wanted to do, even watching youtube was out. This machine is set up perfectly for my needs and i really dont want to go through the hassle of upgrading, failing (which it will), not being able to roll back (ditto), reinstalling 7, then 10 like i did with my other machine.
I just noticed it does the same thing on my netbook, a machine that wont run 10 anyway so why the blue blazes are you downloading 4gb of pointless data eh microsoft?
I quite like 10 as an os, but all this sneaky buggering about behind my back has started putting me right off. First they remotely removed ccleaner without so much as a single notification they had done so. Cue me thinking i was going mad and maybe hadnt installed it on this machine, but then others started reporting it as well. Yeah i get that it probably had compatibility issues with an update, but ffs tell the user, dont just uninstall it in the background. Is that even legal?, and more to the point, what else are they planning to uninstall or alter without telling anyone?
I found spybot antibeacon handy for turning off the telemetry, but surprise surprise, Microsoft seem to have got round a lot of the blocks (ignoring the host file for one, yeah thatl end well).
I would switch to Linux, but every time i install a distro to see how its improved, i always find it lacking in certain areas for my use case, mainly games and productivity stuff, plus the fact that no distribution ever seems to find my laptops network card and/or sd card reader, resulting in much trawling of unfriendly forums before getting bored and going back to the comforting womb that is windows. Oh yeah, i tried mac os and thought it was bloody awful, so wont be switching to that either.
Apparently, according to a few folks Win10 won't work with Arduino.
Win7 is flaky thanks to the FakeTDI (tm) issue, but 10 locks them out completely.
The problems seem to be with the chipset as my external USB to serial (also FTDI)
won't work on 7 x64 either with the latest updates even in test mode yet it works fine
on XP, 7 Home Basic and Vista x32.
Seems M$ didn't think anyone still used serial ports.
(verified on my *other* test machine, Sony Vaio quad core Phenom II 8GB PCG61611M)
Supporting consumer PC's now, for a top 5 OEM (don't know how that happened), I'm afraid I've terrible news for most of you. Outside of this place, in the real world where people buy laptops that come with whatever they come with, even Windows 8, maligned as it is was an outstanding commercial success.
In fact, to the tiny number that object to W10, it's the comparative paragon of virtue. Choice - they don't know the meaning of the word. And there sure as damn isn't any of /that/ on offer.
And almost noone overall objects at all, mostly because they don't know enough to care, but just as much - they wouldn't believe us anyway. Not that I've got a choice myself but to shill for them (passive-aggressively as I can get away with), because that OEM hell *yes* wants to sell more laptops.
And guess what's installed on them, out of the box. We're all going to drown under the flood. I don't actually know to blame iOS or android for this poison. The actually saddening thing, as far as W10/MS goes, it's a strong enough strategy I'm terrified that it'll probably work.
We all, here know network effects.
AC, obviously.
This post has been deleted by its author
Ever since Bill retired, the suits have been turning MS into Chrysler.
Win 7 does everything most of us need quite well, Win 10 adds nothing significant other than a different style and somewhat worse performance.
If MS was still a quality company, they would continue to support Win 7 until they have a new version that offers significant consumer value, instead of value to the vendor, i.e. the data slurping Win 10 breaks wide open.
Cost is not an issue for MS, they have so much cash, they could easily afford to continue support for Win 7.
What makes it worse if if you read the fine print Win 10 basically says that MS can now decide to erase any software it chooses on your computer and install any software they choose. Would you buy a car with stipulations like that. Just imagine walking out to your Mustang with chrome wheels to find Ford swapped in old lady steel disk wheels with smarmy hubcaps instead on morning.
GWX Control Panel, Spybot Anti-Beacon etc.
Great programs. But, as someone said a while back (not sure if it was here or another forum):
"I never thought I'd see the day when you needed to use other software to protect Windows from Microsoft".
Oh, and I almost have my dual boot Windows 7/Linux Mint drive ready to go - Windows 7 at SP1 level only and no Internet access (network adapter disabled in Network and Sharing Center).
Didn't fare too well did it?
Anyway I'm still on Vista... Microsoft won't bother the likes of me. It is more interested in hunting down and converting the Win7 and Win8 users. Nobody expects the Microsoft Inquisition!
I don't even qualify for upgrading to IE10. What tragedy. Sob.
I just got back from Burma.
The _average_ network connection speed is 500kB/s, with the fastest office GPON or ADSL topping out at 2MB/s unless you pay thousands of USD/month and thanks to APNIC's chronic shortage of IPv4, almost every connection is running through 2 or more layers of NAT (real world IPs for end users are EXPENSIVE)
With Win10 attempting (failing, reattempting, failing, reattempting) to download its 3200MB of goodness over that kind of connection, a slow link becomes glacial (not to mention that even at 0.2p/MB, the costs add up bloody fast).
This isn't conjecture. Win10 attempting to force-download was causing major problems on sites I got asked to look at.
Half the machines I was dealing with had originally been purchased with Ubuntu onboard and "upgraded" to windows (the usual case of one country, one license, 2 million installations).
This of course guarantees that when it's finished the "update" windows won't be happy. Suggesting that people switch back to Ubuntu was met with looks of horror.
My son's Windows 10 machine's start menu has quit working for his account.
With MS FORCING out updates like some rapist one would have thought the issue would have been fixed in a matter of a day or two?
What's MS incentive to fix bugs with this new business model, now again?
Hands up all who think the broken start menu is due to an automatically installed non-documented (as they all are) update!
All the more reason to be using a hacked/pirated version of MSWin (nothing newer than MSW7, thank you very much). The "upgrade" tools will see it as a non-eligible system, and let you go on your way. Even better, run MSW in a VM under Linux, you can just periodically tar up the VM and have an easy way to revert.
If More Info doesn't clarify an update then it doesn't get installed.
This applies to: Every. Single. Update.
All w10 related updates have been removed. No changes are allowed to the update program itself.
Any legitimate update is well described in the update module itself, and self explanatory.
The real problem will be when MS start to blatantly lie about what is in an update. And when they start to say it is required rather than optional.
At the moment they are just not saying what is in the updates that you want to stay a country mile away from.
I use w8.1 (desktop mode only) over w7 as it is faster and more memory efficient by a huge amount. I doubt w10 is much more so than w8.1, and even if it was, there is no way I would allow any OS manufacturer, distributor or anyone else access to my data and control of my computer. Unless of course Intel and MS have already done that unbeknownst to us all.
"Today's move does mean you can expect to get a lot more technical support calls from friends and family who don't know what's going on"
I don't get excessive calls from friends and family, I've made it clear to them I do not recommend they run Windows and that I don't provide support for it. I will solve their problem if it's something easy, but I'm not going to spend hours fixing the litany of Windows-problems that simply do not appear on any other OS
Man reading about things like this makes me glad I'm not using Windows any more. I mean, Ubuntu will remind you when there's a new Ubuntu release but it has "remind me later" and "never remind me again" buttons, and this reminder can be totally disabled too (for anybody, not just business users.) It doesn't go around repeatedly trying to slip an OS upgrade in as a normal software update either.
Up until yesterday, I had merely cancelled messages relating to the Win10 upgrade. I had unchecked the download in Windows update as well. I have an on-line test to do on Saturday, among other things. I'll do the update a few weeks from now, so I thought.
I stepped away from my desktop to get something to eat, watched some news, came back to a desktop that upgraded itself to Win10 ... Oh f*** off! C**ts!
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