back to article iOS 9 kludged our iPhones, now give us money, claims new lawsuit

Lawyers in New York have filed a class action lawsuit against Apple, saying that the iOS 9 operating system upgrade slowed their older iPhone 4S handsets into uselessness. "Plaintiff and other class members were faced with a difficult decision: use a buggy, slow device that disrupts everyday life or spend hundreds of dollars …

  1. joed

    "It's going to be difficult to argue that users of generations' old kit should be compensated when things aren't so spiffy." - sure, but it's more about virtually forcing users into upgrade. At least Apple has limited itself (so far) to only wasting your network bandwidth and phone's storage space while MS really wanted to prove being a..h.. ever since release of Windows 10. My 4S had not seen any iOS past 5 until its slow demise (I've been hit;) and replacement with 6S. I'd curious what a 4S in decent shape with good old iOS5 fetch on the market (still a decent podcast player).

    1. Dwarf

      Common Sense

      Commons sense should dictate a couple of things here.

      1. Manufacturers should not be permitted (by law) to take a product you purchased (irrespective of the legal you didn't actually purchase it BS) and make it unusable (i.e. x% slower or unable to do the initial task), it should only be possible for vendors to make things better, not worse

      2. Any "upgrade" must be optional, not enforced or conditional on "continued use of our services" - Apple, Windows, Playstation, etc .. How long until its the IoT fridge or your car that pulls the same stunt ?

      3. Manufacturers must support a product if they enforce an update - irrespective of how old it is - so that consumers get a form of guarantee of the update being fit for purpose. This must not be at any extra cost to the consumer. After all we didn't ask for the update and we can only make a purchasing decision once on that product.

      Its time for the manufacturers to realise that if they made it well and give us what we want then we will bite their hands off for it, but if its pushed down our throats or silently converted from being useful to broken, then we will go look some place else for the next one we buy. Potential customers last longer than companies ...

      Anyhow .. Happy new year all !

    2. Frank Bough

      4S works OK with the latest iOS release as long as you turn off the more frivalous UI jazz and have realistic expectations.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        If Apple is going to push the update onto older phones it either needs to ensure that performance is not compromised or allow the customer to roll back to previous versions. If it is a matter of turning off the more frivalous UI jazz then it should be turned off by default on older devices.

        Apple controls the whole stack from hardware to UI so it should just work.

        1. Mark 65

          I've always wondered the legality of not allowing people to downgrade the OS. If I've bought a device, it worked well on iOS 8.n and then goes to shit on iOS 9.x why can I not downgrade it? If I have kept the necessary firmware I should be able to reinstall it. I think they are on shaky ground with this diktat.

          1. Sir Runcible Spoon

            It isn't just Apple

            I have an older gen iPod touch which I bought with my Sonos sound system a few years back. As it's old it can't upgrade beyond v6 of the ios, which is fine. I have had to live with more and more apps not being downloadable since they usually requite v7+. Not a problem as it's main purpose is to run the Sonos App - nothing more.

            Usually a bit of old software the I'm running gets upgraded and the upgrade requires v7+, at which point the updates for that app are no longer downloaded or applied - it's stuck wherever it was in the dev cycle forever more - again not a problem.

            However, now Sonos has upgraded their App and forced the update on users (otherwise the software won't run at all). The upgrade is still based on ios 6, so it installs.

            Here's the problem - all the features have been removed if you are using ios6 !! I can no longer add new speakers to my system, I can no longer access my music store via NAS. The only thing I can still do is set alarms and access internet radio.

            They forced the update on me, borked my setup and removed my ability to play my music with no option to downgrade the software.

            I've emailed them - no response. I put 1 star ratings and descriptions of the problem in their reviews - no response. Although I did have some twat put something in their review about not upgrading if my device couldn't support it!! The world is going backwards in so many areas I am starting to wonder if I have gone insane (or was always like this I just never noticed before?).

            Sonos - bastards.

            1. AlbertH

              Re: It isn't just Apple

              Frankly - if you're gullible enough to buy something as grossly overpriced as a Sonos, Bose or Apple system, you deserve to be ripped off. All these products do all they can to tie you to their ecosystem, and are all globally renowned for "updates" that make older equipment obsolete. It's a big part of their business model.

            2. Lakerjuck66

              Re: It isn't just Apple

              Your comment is completely false, or you don't understand how to use your Sonos system. I have a Sonos system, and an iPod touch on iOS 6. I never lost access to any services or my music library on my computer or NAS. It really sounds like you don't understand how to use it.

              The ONLY things you can't do are add a new service or player, and change room settings, none of which are things that are done on a regular basis- I haven't touched these options in nearly a year, with the exception of my new PlayBar I got about six months ago.

              You're telling me you have a NAS, Sonos system, and an iPod touch, but you have no computers, Android devices, or newer iOS devices you can install the Sonos app on to add a player for literally 1 minute? BS.

              You ABSOLUTELY can still access ALL services and libraries, so you're either lying or don't understand it. Please, call Sonos their support team is amazing and I guarantee you they'll get everything working the way you want it, including using your iPod to control the system except for those (insanely minor) caveats.

              1. Sir Runcible Spoon

                Re: It isn't just Apple


                You obviously have a comprehension problem. I only stated that I cannot use my system using the device I bought to be dedicated to the purpose. Of course I have computers that I could use to set the system up again, but the point is that Sonos doesn't know that before removing all that functionality.

                Just for a bit of background, I recently moved house and changed my network setup so my NAS is now on a different subnet. The app lost touch with it and even putting it back on the old subnet didn't work.

                So, instead of calling me a liar or an idiot, perhaps you could address the actual point which was that Sonos have deliberately removed functionality from a set of devices they sold me that were working perfectly well. They gave me no choice in the matter and have not offered up any alternatives.

                As for the poster saying I deserve everything I get for buying Sonos, there weren't that many options back in 2010 that I was aware of and it's worked pretty well over the years, so fuck you too.

            3. fuzzie

              Re: It isn't just Apple

              Sounds we should start taking these issue to our various Consumer Watchdogs. It's probably only the last generation or two/three where we've accumulated enough stickiness to our devices, platforms/eco systems and apps that longevity start to matter. Let's wake up those watchdogs and have them start setting the precedent of how software should be maintained/supported over the longer term.

              1. Mark 65

                Re: It isn't just Apple

                I don't think it is about supportability so much as arbitrarily fucking up something you've paid a lot of money for then effectively telling you "tough shit we won't fix it, buy a new one" that is the issue. If I have bought the device outright the manufacturer has no right whatsoever to destroy my usage of it by forcing OS upgrades upon me or not allowing me to use a previously viable version. We're not asking for support, just choice.

  2. Andrew Jones 2

    But...... they have to push it out to old hardware - so they can claim that they release an iOS update and 99% of users receive it in days, and obviously the competition (Android) cannot claim that..... They never make claims that the updates are actually usable to all 99% of their users.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A sheltered life?

    ...and users are expected to know the crippling affect of upgrades.

    Strange the things that become a business norm. The paltry RAM is another but they accepted that by purchasing said gear.

  4. P. Lee

    >One suspects Apple's response will be "well what did you expect?"

    I expect to be able to roll-back an inappropriate software installation.

    I expect an *appliance* vendor to prevent or at least flag the installation of its software on its own hardware as inappropriate, if that is the case. I expect the vendor to have tested the usability of an upgrade on its own hardware.

    I don't mind the upgrade cycle. I do mind when applications are inappropriately tied to the OS. I do mind if the vendor knows the software, knows the hardware, knows it won't work properly and still pushes the upgrade.

    If Apple, MS or Google ties software to hardware and then fouls up my usage, none of them get money from me. You can keep your stinking ecosystems. You may be pretty but you are not cool and every time you do something like this I'm reminded of the fact that I hate you every time an application doesn't work as well as it used to. For example, with MS' shenanigans I will no longer purchase Windows-only games. No Linux version - no purchase, even if I want it badly.

    I have a very particular set of skills. I will hunt your customers down. I will find them and when I do, I will badmouth you to them.

    1. Soruk

      Re: >One suspects Apple's response will be "well what did you expect?"

      Several years back I installed Solaris 10 on an old Ultra 5. The installer produced a pop-up advising that the machine was below the minimum recommended specification, but allowed me to proceed. This was fine for me as it was intended to run headless to compile targeting Solaris/SPARC as part of a batch job. In this instance all that mattered was that the code would execute correctly (even if 'run' isn't exactly the right word) but I was made aware before the installation actually began that performance would be below par. This is the important bit - I was able to make an informed decision.

      This was about 7 years or so ago. And Apple can't manage this in 2015, apparently.

      1. Bronek Kozicki

        Re: >One suspects Apple's response will be "well what did you expect?"

        Perhaps Sun has patented the concept, and Apple do not dare to infringe upon Oracle's IP

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: >One suspects Apple's response will be "well what did you expect?"

      "well what did you expect?"

      Not to have an in-depth knowledge of operating systems and system requirements? If Apple are aiming to sell to the average non-tech punter, they should align their expectations.

  5. JLV

    Wish this had been publicized before

    iPad 4 here. Post 9.x, the poor thing is limping along. This is after going through all the settings and making sure that all the bling animations & stuff is off. Chrome is especially liable to get shut down (probably due to insufficient memory).

    Vaunted tech like the ad-blocking? Only on Safari and only on iPad Air 1+ (i.e. the generation after my 3 year old kit). So, 9 basically slows down the whole thing to molasses but all its spiffy new features are hardware-locked to newer kit.

    The reviews by the press did nada to identify this. The fanbois who took a look did not either.

    Not upgrading is not a satisfactory answer - lots (all?) of apps stop issuing updates on older iOS.

    I appreciate Apple's support for older devices, I really do. In the sense that many other phone OS, or the manufacturers, provide a very low bar to improve on. But Apple needs to get better at trimming back guzzle-guzzle processes on their older kit. Otherwise even fanbois will get annoyed enough to go elsewhere. Hopefully this lawsuit, if well publicized, will get them to be more sensitive.

    And the professional press really needs to get its thumb out of their nethers, flag the bad along with the good and write more informative reviews. Not just gush stupidly about the tech on their latest-gen bling. To start with, how about bitching more loudly that most new flagship phones, not just Apple's, are now @ $800+. For a phone???

    p.s. too bad about Blackberry because my fairly low spec Classic just zips along happily on BB 10.3. You wouldn't know from looking at its responsiveness that its guts are really pretty outdated chipsets.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Wish this had been publicized before

      iOS 9 works fine on my parents' iPad 2, so I don't know why it shouldn't work on an iPad 4. Maybe yours is trying to do some of the eye candy that the 2 doesn't, and you think you've turned it all off but haven't? Or you just run a lot of stuff at once, while they only ever use about four apps so there is less for it to do.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: Wish this had been publicized before

        Yes, posting this from an iPad 2 running iOS 9.2.

        A bit slower than it used to be but still doing sterling service.

        1. FlamingDeath Silver badge

          Re: Wish this had been publicized before

          Don't expect a similar experience with iOS 10

          It's planned obsolescence, pure and simple

          Their whole business model is built around forcing into effect a throw away society

          1. Handy Plough

            Re: Wish this had been publicized before

            Yes. Planned obsolescence. After what will be 5 years (yes 5, it was released in 2011). Name 1 Android OEM matching that with just security updates.


            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Wish this had been publicized before

              >Handy Plough

              "Name 1 Android OEM matching that with just security updates."

              Ah but at least with Android I can install a custom ROM or CM, I have many more options than an Apple owner.

              I've an Ipad2 and it runs like shit compared to the original IOS release it came with even with all the bling turned off. It's since been replaced by a Sammy S2 9.7, thought about an Air 2 but all things considered the Sammy won in the end, an SD slot is real handy for me.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Wish this had been publicized before

                OK, so the 1% of users who would 1) know about the ability to install custom ROMs etc. and 2) wouldn't be worried they'd break it by trying to follow instructions they found on the web can take advantage of that option.

                So because of that Apple providing upgrade OPTIONS for years after the device has been purchased is planned obsolescence, but Android OEMs providing almost nothing after sale except they (mostly accidentally) provide a way to force upgrades that few know about and where the end user is totally on their own isn't? Pretty weak logic there.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Wish this had been publicized before

                  ", but Android OEMs providing almost nothing after sale except they (mostly accidentally) provide a way to force upgrades that few know about and where the end user is totally on their own isn't? "


                  My Android phone is now 3 versions behind the latest, it came with MIUI v5 and now runs v7, and I am looking forwards to v8 and Android 6 turning up one weekend on my weekly MIUI updates.

                2. Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Wish this had been publicized before


                  Plenty of Apple folk jailbreak following instructions they found on the web, pretty weak logic there yourself.

                  I was explaining my personal reasons for moving away from Apple. For those who are technically retarded always get their pockets pilfered and shepherded down alleys, I'm quite comfortable changing engines thanks. The price of a tap washer is cheap but paying a plumber to change it for you isn't.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: Wish this had been publicized before

                    And how many Apple owners jailbreak their phones? Probably 1%, which is my argument. Most people don't want to "do it yourself" whether to get upgrades or install third party apps. Good on you that you do, and that's fine. I'm not denying there's a segment of owners, whether iPhone or Android, who want to go beyond the capabilities/limitations of using them under the OEM 'supported' model, just that that segment is tiny whether you're talking about jailbreaking or custom ROMs.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Wish this had been publicized before

              Most Android sets were not such a hefty up front cost

          2. Gordon 10

            Re: Wish this had been publicized before

            Oh really? By that logic half the android oems are wondeful green beardies by never providing a single android update thus allowing you to use your android phone to infinity and beyond.


        2. Whistlerspa

          Re: Wish this had been publicized before

          Me to but iOS 9 has definitely slowed it down. Chrome almost unusable and switching between apps glitchy. Some apps now freeze..

          1. Frank Bough

            Re: Wish this had been publicized before

            Use Safari

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Wish this had been publicized before

        Slight difference between an iPad and an iPHONE.

        This article is about the iPHONE4S, not the iPAD4.

        BTW, SWMBOS 4S is still working fine, not sure if she had the update pushed on her as the phone is set to Chinese. (Just the crap battery life as an issue)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Wish this had been publicized before

      "the poor thing is limping along. This is after going through all the settings and making sure that all the bling animations & stuff is off. Chrome is especially liable to get shut down "

      So the poor thing is limping with Chrome being a big problem. Perhaps it is Chrome that is the biggest problem here, not iOS. No it can't possible be the Google spyware using up too many resources. Must be iOS.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Money market

    This is what happens with a proprietary software company. The only way forward is to force upgrades and buy new stuff. and on the way bork old stuff.

    As far as I am concerned, people that buy Apple, Microsoft and the rest deserve it.

    No need for a court case at all.

    1. agatum

      Re: Money market

      > As far as I am concerned, people that buy Apple, Microsoft and the rest deserve it.

      No I don't. I paid top euros for a 'high-end product' (as the manufacturer claimed) so what I deserve is a 'high-end product'. Apple, slurp et al deserve to get sued.

      > No need for a court case at all.

      Yes there is. See above.

      1. AlbertH

        Re: Money market

        Sadly, you've been fooled. Apple products certainly aren't "high end" - their computers are just generic PCs in pretty boxes, their phones are made out of rejected Samsung parts, and their software is just a shiny desktop over a BSD core. Their products have always been wildly over-priced, in a marketing ploy to make them appear to be "high end". They're actually very average, and the current iOS phones look positively old-fashioned when compared to the latest Samsungs.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Money market - @alberth

          All the test results suggest that the Apple technique is to use low spec but high performance parts. (This isn't inconsistent; 1Gbyte of RAM is low spec, but how fast it is is performance.) They have two core CPUs but the individual cores are fast. They have low resolution displays but the brightness, CMY coverage and so on are very good. They have very high performance GPUs. They don't allow sd slots because the ROM is very fast and using SD would slow down some applications quite badly. In car analogy they are like an Audi TT; good at what they do but don't try putting two adults in the back or towing a caravan.

          Samsung made leading edge components and drive the industry as a whole forward (though as a photographer I much prefer a good LCD to the Velvia+++ of OLED.) That's why Apple can't wean itself off Samsung components. Samsung's problem is that they don't really seem to know what to do with them other than take a lot of them, stick them in a box and see if it sells. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The car analogy is General Motors.

          The Chinese seem to be good at taking mid range components and putting them together quite intelligently. The car analogy is Hyundai or perhaps Skoda.

          So Apple products are "high end", it is just that their tradeoffs are different, aimed more at GPU performance than the competition. In the PC world high performance GPUs are seriously expensive, I suspect that is a lot of the iPhone cost (a lot of the rest is marketing and support - just like Audi or Lexus.)

          I don't buy Apple because I don't stretch the GPU and I'd rather have a phone that, if I lose it, I can just remotely kill and put down to experience - for which my limit is around £250. But there's no need to knock them because of it.

          1. Frank Bough

            Re: Money market - @alberth

            I love the idea that Apple fit low res screens to their gear when they pioneered high res displays in phones / tabs and continue to lead in PCs. Bonkers.

        2. Lakerjuck66

          Re: Money market

          I don't care what you buy, but saying Apple uses rejected parts or generic pc parts is either stupidity or dishonesty. Look around for interior images of a Mac; all the boards are custom and efficient, and even their batteries are custom made. Nothing is generic, you're an idiot, and I don't even use Mac OS.

        3. <shakes head>

          Re: Money market

          please define "high end", laptop that lasts 6 years and 3 OS versions with out anything being done to it seems high end to me, and the price I would have paid if it was not a refurb, would have felt "High end"

        4. Frank Bough

          Re: Money market


    2. John Savard

      Re: Money market

      What do you suggest we buy instead?

  7. John Crisp

    1. Please ask once politely if I want to download an update system

    2. If I do, ask once politely if I want to upgrade and make it clear my toy may turn to sludge if I do

    Cut the backdoor downloads and incessant update whining and leave me in peace

    Nope, I do not have a fruity toy, but the wife does and boy, is she mad. So I don't care what the vultures at Apple do, until I get it in the neck from my non tech average user wife. Which is now.

    Screw you Apple. I can't sue you here. But I shall enjoy converting as many of your users as I can to something else. Don't get mad. Get even

    1. James O'Shea Silver badge


      If I recall correctly, on my three iOS devices I had to go to the Settings icon, and then had to select 'General', and then had to select 'Software update'. And once the update was downloaded, I had to select 'Install'. Yes, there was a notification that there was an update, but I could and did ignore it until i was good and ready to apply. Indeed, I only got around to updating my iPad Air earlier this week, quite some time after I'd updated my iPhone 5S, and that was some time after the initial notification was made. I still haven't updated the iPhone 5C. there was no 'backdoor download'. There was no 'incessant update whining'.

      Given the lack of space on the 5C, I may never update it.

      I don't see the problem.

      1. agatum

        There was no 'incessant update whining'.

        On my iPhone (iOS 8.1.3) there is a little red circle with number '1' in it on the upper right corner of the 'Settings' icon as a constant and annoying reminder. We could argue if that counts as an 'incessant update whining'. In any case, I find it annoying.

        1. Lakerjuck66

          Settings-notifications-settings app- icon badges-off. Done.

        2. Frank Bough


          I think you might be holding on too tight if that winds you up.

      2. heyrick Silver badge

        My iPad Mini is still running iOS 7. When eight turned up, iTunes gave me a download time measured in days, so I cancelled it.

        In the tech press, nothing convinced me that an OS that practically doubled in size (and no doubt would lay claim to a much larger chunk of flash - it's a shame there's no method of uninstalling unwanted features), so I did not upgrade further.

        This hasn't stopped iOS from downloading periodic updates (480MBish for an 9.x update) that logically cannot be installed, cannot be disabled (it does this when it wants with no abort mechanism, friendly thing to do when the device is tethered) and then it pops up a notification about an important update do I want to install it even though an iOS 9 update will be useless on an iOS 7 system. I need to go into the list of memory claims and delete the update file, then make some random video to reduce my free space so the damn thing doesn't go and try again.

        This...this is the reality of a so-called premium product.

        1. agatum

          > This...this is the reality of a so-called premium product.

          Sad and true. Years ago I was a bit smug about my choice of manufacturer. Most my friends had android devices and still do. My smugness has diminished somewhat since then. And diminishing as we speak.

      3. Lakerjuck66

        SERIOUSLY. people act like Apple held them and gun point and demanded they press update and confirm they're sure. Ridiculous.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I think you had better stick at the version you are on then with ios 9 it asks you via a pop up on a daily basis when 9.1 and 9.2 came out.

        I certainly call that pestering.

    2. Mark 85 Silver badge

      @John Crisp

      I think this could and should apply also to MS. They're pulling the same crap but on a larger scale.

    3. agatum
      Thumb Up

      1. Please ask once politely if I want to download an update system

      2. If I do, ask once politely if I want to upgrade and make it clear my toy may turn to sludge if I do

      So simple. I'd say even the biggest and brightest brains in the IT sky should be able to grasp an idea so profoundly simple. Have and upvote.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apple fragmentation

    Hassle of supporting a handful of devices compared to less problems supporting 3000 abdroid devices.

    1. John Savard

      Re: Apple fragmentation

      That isn't fair. Android cell phones don't have these problems, but that's simply because the software they came with (almost) never gets upgraded to a new version.

  9. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    True, but...

    It's true that you cannot expect the same performance from a 4S as from a 6. But, there have been cases with Android devices where a port of (next version of Android, like 2.x to 4.x) was made to the device, they found in internal testing that performance was inadequate (usually because the device was a bit short on RAM), and the update not pushed out. If IOS9 had significantly higher system requirements, it should have been either held back for 4S, or.. well, honestly, I think all phones should permit flashing an older firmware on if you want to. Or if the 4S owners are lucky, ios9 is missing a few optimizations and it runs fast enough on 4S.

    On the other hand, I haven't seen a first-hand comparison, so I guess my feelings on this depend on if this really makes the phone all laggy, or if it's just ever so slightly slower and there's much ado about (almost) nothing.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Honest question here

    Could these people not just open iTunes, switch off auto sync, plug their telephone in and then click restore? Assuming they can't do that please could someone tell me why it wouldn't work? Thank you and a Very happy New Year to you all.

    Cheers... Ishy

    1. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge

      Re: Honest question here

      A search of the intertubes says that you can not downgrade. The iPhone bootloader is locked and the iOS9 version does not recognize the iOS8 digital signature.

      This is why I only buy phones with a bootloader that can be unlocked. Manucatureres don't like maintaing old phones when there's money in new phones. Once the phone is about a year old, third party ROMs start working better than manufacturer ROMs.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Honest question here

        You can downgrade, but the option is only available for a short time after the release of the new version (maybe a month or so?) If you wait longer to upgrade, it is a one way upgrade.

        Of course no one forced them to upgrade, iOS gives you the option but you don't have to agree. It will never force it on you, you could continue running what the 4S shipped with if you want.

  11. Winkypop Silver badge

    iPhone 4 here (not 'S')

    Stuck on 7.1.2

    Feeling lucky now.

    1. Planty Bronze badge

      Re: iPhone 4 here (not 'S')

      You have an iphone, you aren't lucky at all, you have a phone that can just about do basic things, but struggles at anything else, and is locked into apples cashcow ecosystem, where is apples way or nothing.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: iPhone 4 here (not 'S')

      surely feeling *insecure* now? there are tonnes of security vulnerabilities in the older iOS releases - you're a prime target :/

  12. decoherence

    Bahahahaha you thought Apple gave a damn about products they don't sell anymore! That'll teach you! But count yourself lucky -- at least you didn't drop fifteen grand on on a tricked out version of their last (as in, final) workstation.

  13. frank ly

    Jezabel !

    "Furthermore, the seductiveness of Apple's software ecosystem meant that the plaintiffs couldn't easily move to the competition, the lawsuit claims."

  14. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. John Savard

      Writing better code that is not so bloated is a good idea. However, even with well-written code, an operating system will get bigger if you add lots of fancy new features.

      I don't think I can expect Microsoft to write a more efficient version of Windows 10 that has the same hardware requirements as Windows 3.1 running on DOS 5 without removing some features.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "I don't think I can expect Microsoft to write a more efficient version of Windows 10 that has the same hardware requirements as Windows 3.1 running on DOS 5 without removing some features."

        Err but hang on a minute if you stop being (intentionally) ridiculous with the Windows 3.1 analogy and look what's happened over the last decade, then MS have pulled the rabbit out of the hat so to speak. Windows 7 was less heavy on the hardware than Vista. And Windows 8 and 8.1 are better still. And Windows 10 will run on your average Windows 8/8.1 laptop no problem. So don't tar Windows with the same Apple brush!

        (Sorry I know it's deeply unpopular to say anything +ve about MS, so down vote me to hell fanboy suckers :)

  15. werdsmith Silver badge





    case "iPhone 4S":


    case "iPhone 5":


    case "iPhone 5S":


    case "iPhone 6":






    Sorry about the new lines, forum puts those in and it also removed the indenting grrrr.

  16. adfh

    Double edged sword...

    On the one hand, not deploying the update to older phones would mean that they remain more functional..

    On the other hand, by not allowing handsets to get the latest software, unless you're releasing patches for the older software as well, invariably, the older devices will be vulnerable to hacking.

    In my mind, a phone should not be designed, either by hardware or software limitation, to only last 2 years (batteries excluded - I'd class batteries as a consumable).

    I have a Galaxy Nexus - and Google have dumped support for it (allegedly initially because TI stopped supporting the mobile [TI OMAP] chipset within), but thankfully Cyanogenmod have been releasing at least major security updates for it. Sure, it's slow, and sure I want a new phone, but should I *need* a new phone? If I change the battery, the thing could remain functional until either the apps grow too big to be able to run (geez, how much resources does an IM program need, I'm looking at you, Facebook Messenger!), they finally stop doing security updates (connecting unfiltered to the wider world with a machine that no longer receives patches is asking for something to happen), I physically break the phone, or the flash wears out. My previous phones I've also ditched because they either couldn't do what I needed (2280, N70, N95), were buggy (Hyundai HGC-310e, N95), or their network support was killed (CDMA - HGC-310e, 2280).

    If manufacturers are worried about a revenue stream, then perhaps they need to think about a licensing model around software updates to fund things. Abandoning the security of working devices because you want to sell some new ones, when they're still perfectly functional for browsing theweb, sending and receiving emails, calls and texts etc. seems like a massive waste of resources... especially things like rare earths and other minerals that often come from all sorts of sensitive areas in the world and can't easily be recycled.

    The same applies to tablets - Android landfill especially - I like Android, but some cheap and cheerful Chinese OEM isn't going to give two flying .. well you get the idea ... about providing after sales updates for some Shenzen special, or open it up to easily allow third party updates when they could just sell newer devices.

    Networked devices, be they phones, tablets or IoT, unless they're firewalled off from the world with very specific controls, they need to be updated, and updated and updated. Printers used to be the "forgotten networked target" on networks, now it could be a lightbulb!

  17. Pisartis

    IOS9 works fine on my 4S. It works fine on my iPad 2 too.

    Both devices might be fractionally slower than when they ran previous versions of the OS, but it's pretty hard to tell. I've probably got UI animations disabled (don't remember changing any settings specifically for IOS9), but I did that anyway long ago.

    I honestly had no idea there was any sort of issue running IOS9 on this hardware.

  18. djstardust

    Ipad 1st gen

    Exactly the same issue. OS upgrade killed it to the point it was useless and the onscreen keyboard lagged like hell. Apple said tough so I have never ever bought another thing from them.

    £700 well and truly down the drain.

    At least with Android you can roll back OS versions reasonably easily and you don't get forced to update like Apple devices.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ipad 1st gen

      would you care to explain in detai lwhat you mean by forced updates?

      Do you mean that Apple actually does the update without you agreeing to it?

      We deserve to know the gory details so we can slag of Crapple for the rest of the year.

      As for your waste of money. You bought a V1 product so what do you expect. Just give a thought to the poor sods who bought a Surface-RT.

      1. RubberJohnny

        Forced Updates

        Apps and app updates in the app store start to prevail with the message "Requires iOS 9 or later" etc.

        1. JaimieV

          Re: Forced Updates

          If you're intentionally stopping on an old version of the OS, you can't use apps that are updated use features of later versions of the OS. It's honestly ridiculous of you to expect to be able to.

  19. Bloodbeastterror

    "Expecting similar performance ignores certain technical realities."

    Can ayone spot the logical inconsistency here? Yes, that's correct - iDevices are bought by technical illiterates. How could they possibly know?

  20. Joerg

    iPad 2 and iPhone 4S work perfectly with iOS 9.x

    iPad 2 and iPhone 4S work perfectly with iOS 9.x and anyone telling otherwise is lying.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: iPad 2 and iPhone 4S work perfectly with iOS 9.x

      We have both a 4S and iPad 2 here in the household. Both seem to work as they always have done.

      Are they slower than my shiny 6S? Yes

      Would I like the adblocker option on the 4S? Yes

      Should Apple allow and support the downgrading of the OS 1to -1 version? Yes.

    2. JLV

      Re: iPad 2 and iPhone 4S work perfectly with iOS 9.x

      >anyone telling otherwise is lying.

      Two other people have already made that point*. More politely.

      Insulting people without knowing the whole story does remarkably little to convince others that your analysis of a product is based on sound judgment, rather than your prejudices, be they positive or negative. I suspect that at least some Apple users cringe at comments like these, just like savvy Linux users do not particularly want to be associated with folks like our dear departed Eadon. Since you are calling me a liar, I will happily call you an a.+hole.

      * dunno, maybe a factory reset and reinstall would help. Something's certainly different on my tablet and it's not from running many apps either. Thanks (to the other posters) for this info.

      1. Sir Runcible Spoon


        wtf is an 'a-dot-plus-hole'?

        If you want to call someone an arsehole (or even, heaven forbid, an asshole) then just fucking do it.

        Don't complain that someone hasn't been polite, then because you felt insulted you felt justified in being impolite back to them - and then not doing it ffs!

        -This has been a public grumpiness outburst from the post-holiday grumpy bastard.

  21. David Lawton

    My first gen iPad Mini runs very sluggish browsing the web on iOS 9 compared to iOS 7. Apps more or less run fine, its just the web browser part.

    So i only use it when traveling now and use my iPad Air 1st gen instead around the house.

    I really like the Apple stuff, but the one thing i have always been annoyed about is the lack of being able to take the iPad or iPhone back to a previous version of iOS.

    Im more worried this class action might cause Apple to drop support for older products sooner software wise, when what we need is just more control over the updates. Would be great if Apple supported the older iOS's a bit longer and when you update you have the choice of the minor or major version, i.e. iOS 7.1.1 to iOS 7.1.2 or iOS 8.0 . Im guessing that gets hard if they have a new iOS version every year which is just not necessary, they should stop the annual release of iOS and OS X.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The masters of enforced obsolescence...

    Under Tim, Apple have become the masters of enforced obsolescence. With older Apple products, I approach any upgrade with caution. In this case, I fully sympathise with the plaintiffs.

    1. JeffyPoooh

      Re: The masters of enforced obsolescence...

      One primary reason that Apple pushes out or offers regular iOS updates is to disable the latest batch of knock-off 'Lightning' charging cables. We might have a fresh batch, and one day BLAM they're rejected by the phone, the battery drains down, and we're forced to rush out and purchase a genuine MFI-certified cable, which lasts only months under wife or kids' use patterns (heavy use while plugged in).

      The *genuinely* MFI-certified cables are an absolute minimum of US$12 each ($15+ typically), while the knock-offs are $2 with free shipping. One can derive that the (criminal protection racket) 'license fee' for MFI-certified charging cables must be roughly US$10 each.

      The only point and purpose of the DRM chip in the Lightning connector on charging cables is to enforce the Apple fee. It's clearly an extortion racket on the part of Apple.

      What I don't understand is why this obviously-criminal, clearly anti-competitive, seemingly-racketeering behaviour by Apple is tolerated by the competition regulators, EU, USA, etc.

      Didn't the EU mandate a common charging solution? Where did that go?

      1. RubberJohnny

        Re: The masters of enforced obsolescence...

        I've been using the same Poundland cable for years.

        A message comes up and says this is not a genuine device and may not work as expected.

        But it still works.

        More likely the regular updates are because of the cat and mouse battles with the jailbreak artists.

        1. JeffyPoooh

          Re: The masters of enforced obsolescence...

          RJ "A message comes up and says this is not a genuine device and may not work as expected. But it still works."

          Must be a case of YMMV. Wifey's iPhone 5S and iPad Mini start giving the warning message, AND FAIL TO CHARGE. Of course I hear about it when both gadgets are down to 25% charge. Try the spare knock-off cables from the same eBay batch, all rejected, none charge. Landfill. This sequence has occurred twice.

          Apple seems intent on converting 'goodwill' into cash. Which is rude and stupid in the long run.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The masters of enforced obsolescence...

        Monoprice and Amazon Basic cables are both MFi verified and much less than $12!

        1. JeffyPoooh

          Re: The masters of enforced obsolescence...


          Good tip re. Amazon. Those $7 cables weren't there last time I'd searched. Thank you.

  23. Snapper

    iPad Mini Mk 1/iPad 2 and iPhone 4S work fine

    Ok, the iPad Mini Mk 1 is not very fast and battery life is not great (about 6 hours), but it works fine with iOS9, as do my iPad 2 and the wife's iPhone 4s.

    We deliberately don't run Chrome, nuff said.

    1. Lee D

      Re: iPad Mini Mk 1/iPad 2 and iPhone 4S work fine

      Chrome on iOS is just Apple's own UIWebView in a fancy front-end. You're not allowed to write your own rendering engine on iPad apps.

      Whereas Safari et al use Apple's own WKWebView, which can do a bit more hardware acceleration (check out node.js or emscripten examples in both).

      There's no such thing as "another browser" on iPads/iPhones. Even Opera is just a remote VNC-like session to an Opera instance rather than local rendering.

  24. Steveir

    I find it really ironic that while reading the article safari on my ipad2 running ios 9.2 crashed...and it doesnt normally do so here on el Reg!

    It happens a lot and it Safari that is the issue....well maybe not Safari itself just the massive overexposure we're now getting on the web of advertising. I read that if i was wealthy enough to own an ipad air id be able to install adblockers....

    Overall though, my ipad 2 does run ok, its just said issues in Safari with overladen with advert websites

  25. Chas

    My 4S works fine on iOS 9 although Siri gets a little "deaf" at times.

  26. JeffyPoooh

    Apple iOS, Google Android, Microsoft Windows - each corrupt in their own way

    I have phones and tablets from all the major ecosytems. Apple (phones, tablets), Googly-Android (phone, tablets), Microsoft (phone, tablets), Blackberry (tablet). I know them all.

    Conclusion: ALL OF THEM..., all of these gadget-tech corporations are each corrupt in their own combination of manifold ways. Each of them make really dumb-ass mistakes, each of them obviously puts their own greedy self-interest WAY in front of their customers' benefits, each of them deserves ridicule and should be humiliated by their own recurringly-flawed-engineering, sleazy-marketing and evil-support failures. They're each as subtly-scummy as NOx-emission-cheating VW on a bad day, except they've never apologized.

    Point being, if you're still naive enough to still be >> *fanboi-worshiping* << (applies to only a few of those reading) any of these scummy, customer-abusing, money-suck-tuning, tax-avoiding, morally-corrupt, failed-ethics, multiple-flawed-engineering, ever-deceptive-marketing, self-interest-first, Greenwash-lying, self-destructive-product-supporting, multinational parasites or their always-flawed products, then YOU'RE an idiot. And if your anger swells up at this, then it certifies that you're even more of a fanboi-idiot than average. No exceptions.

    Hey, Happy New Year !

  27. Dieter Haussmann

    Apple have never forced or pushed an iOS upgrade, only merely invited.

    The only thing I would criticise is the way they stop allowing the previous versions to be installed and activated a few days after releasing a new one. They should keep the final version of all the old versions available, as they do with Mac OS X going back >15 years.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Gotta have the latest!

    Which is why you end up with comedy sketches like this from The Onion Movie:

    The Bates 9000

  29. Slap

    The 4S is not hobbled with iOS 9

    The 4S is not hobbled with iOS 9 as long as a few steps are taken.

    Turn on "Reduce Transparency" (Settings -> General -> Accessibility -> Increase Contrast -> Reduce Transparency)

    Turn on "Reduce Motion" (Settings -> General -> Accessibility -> Reduce motion)

    Turn off "Predictive Text" (Settings -> General -> Keyboard -> Predictive)

    The last one really helped with SMS and typing in general.

    Basically with those steps I have an iPhone 4S, which while not as snappy as my 6, still performs admirably for day to day tasks that don't require the oomph of the A8 processor, which, quite frankly, most normal mobile workloads don't.

    1. MrT

      Re: The 4S is not hobbled with iOS 9

      Thanks for posting those. The last two tips work well on iPad Mini v1 - just applied the last one here, to remove the sometimes very lethargic keyboard response in Safari. The reduce motion tip makes the screen rotation more brisk, but at least here I didn't notice much difference from the first tip (just the dock and folder backgrounds going solid grey). I've also set the background image to a static one instead of the animated bubbles... The overall effect is noticeably improved.

      1. Sir Runcible Spoon

        Re: The 4S is not hobbled with iOS 9

        "I've also set the background image to a static one instead of the animated bubbles... The overall effect is noticeably improved."



        1. MrT

          Re: The 4S is not hobbled with iOS 9

          Chuffin made me log onto the full-fat web site to find out the icon you'd used :-D (they don't show on m.register and can't be chosen on posts either)

          Yeah, hands up, doesn't sound the most knowledgeable thing to say, but before iOS9 none of the eye candy bothered the iPad too much. It's mostly the kids device so the bubbles are probably back already.

          FWIW I've also disabled multi-fingered gestures as well... ;-)

  30. Jess

    Apple do other dirty tricks with their iDevices

    On a snow leopard mac itunes will offer to update an iDevice without an obvious warning that the device will no longer work with the system.

    Of course there is the option of El Capitan, (unless it is a system with 32 bit firmware), but that of course makes a lot of software obsolete (iPhoto, even the paid for version, and anything requiring rosetta)

  31. gerdesj

    Can't switch?

    "Furthermore, the seductiveness of Apple's software ecosystem meant that the plaintiffs couldn't easily move to the competition, the lawsuit claims"

    That is probably the most stupid thing I've heard in quite a while. It's as daft as saying you can't buy a Ford because you only drive Renault (ooh nooes, I can't find the headlight switch and can't read a manual)

    A family member has an (old) iPhone and an iPad. On Black Friday they went out to buy a new phone. Apple wouldn't discount so they went elsewhere and bought a heavily discounted Sammy 6 Edge. Well that anecdote is one data point ...

    1. RubberJohnny

      Re: Can't switch?

      No you misunderstand.

      These users have purchased apps, and those apps remain purchased in Apple's store so when they get a new device they just re-download them. They may have a big investment in those.

      If they go to another eco system then those purchases are lost.

      And if they have their family and friends regularly using iMessage and Facetime, FindMyFriends etc, changing means they drop out of that circle.

    2. Vince

      Re: Can't switch?

      No, the most stupid thing I've read is your attempt to align changing car brands with this. That's not even vaguely close to the same thing at all.

      This is where a vendor purposefully makes software for a device that makes it poor in a large number of cases (and does blatantly know about it), and does not allow the user to revert to how they were before - if they did, that'd be fine.

      Personally in my view Apple can do one, but I do get the issue at least.

  32. JaitcH

    How difficult is it for Cupertino to ascertain ...

    the hardware revision information?

    Apple loves tracking it's products - so there is no difficulty there.

    Other OS can do this and prevent unsuitable upgrades - of course such companies care about their customers.

    1. JaimieV

      Re: How difficult is it for Cupertino to ascertain ...

      They already do that - you can't apply iOS9 to an iPhone4, for instance. It'll just refuse.

      The tricky part is defining the dividing line between the "definitely not" and "just about OK" hardware releases. For some people's use the 4S apparently should have been on the "not" side of the line. For others, it's fine.

  33. MondoMan

    Meaning of "kludged"?

    I had thought that "kludged" meant roughly "made to function adequately by means of a notably inelegant modification". The story's headline writer clearly disagrees.

    (Boosting my sense of self-worth, defines "kludge" as "a software or hardware configuration that, while inelegant, inefficient, clumsy, or patched together, succeeds in solving a specific problem or performing a particular task. ")


    On a 4S here, I didn't upgrade

    Myself and my partner are both still using iPhone 4Ses. We read about the iOS 8 slowness when it launched, and then the fact that iOS 9 didn't make things any better; so we have stuck with iOS 7.

    Two issues with this for us, even though the App Store still has older versions of Apps available for download (to users who already purchased them) - around 50% of the time I look for a new App now, the latest version is not iOS 7 compatible, and Apple don't offer the older version that is compatible, and IS in the App Store for existing owners of that App. I can work around this by buying it in desktop iTunes and then pulling it down on the Phone, but why don't they just support this?

    Second annoyance is that every time we sync our phone to iTunes, we are prompted to upgrade. There is a "do not remind me again" tick box, but to avoid the upgrade you have to cancel the dialog, which doesn't save the "don't tell me again" preference. Incredibly annoying, and poor UX. Come on Apple, be good!

  35. Lucasjkr

    Seems pretty simple. I've liked my iPhones and iPads over the years, but I've always been extremely hesitant to install any software updates for the simple fact that Apple makes it a one-way procedure. Seems like it shouldn't be difficult to allow it to roll back to the previous version, either through a saved image on the computer or downloading it from iCloud.

    Such a capability would be welcomed by so many users, I'm sure. And I can't think of a single reason why it shouldn't be available.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "And I can't think of a single reason why it shouldn't be available."

      I assume that during the upgrade process application data formats are changed, and the changes can't be undone. So a rollback process would lose data. There is not enough room in a phone to store an entire image before updating, and expecting the average user to backup a system image to a PC would be asking too much - Apple's USP (and there is nothing wrong with it) is that they make advanced technology available to the non-technical, in exchange for higher upfront cost.

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Up;grade incentive

    "Ok so your hardware now works like an old dog so you'll have to upgrade."

    To give Apple their due they support older devices far longer than Google do with Android or maybe it's just Samsung, LG, HTC et al that don't.

    Oh Samsung, I'm still waiting for that update for my Ace 3 that is supposed to fix Stagefright.

  37. Nameless Faceless Computer User

    Upgrade or else

    Apple has been doing this for years. All of their updates are targeted towards new hardware while sometimes crippling older models. My Mac is a few years old and the latest "upgrade" corrupted the video driver so I get occasional random flashing bars on my screen. But, keep the old software and new applications will fail to run.

    On the iPhone, the settings icon illuminates a big red number 1 if there is an update. Apple has not provided a way to turn off the notification. Every time you turn your phone on, your eye is drawn to the indicator telling you to update your firmware. Common sense tells you to wait until you have investigated the release. Sometimes you just want to turn the damn indicator off by upgrading.

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