Apple pays two seconds of quarterly profit for wiping pensioner's pics A London pensioner has defeated Apple in court, bagging £1,200 ($1,791) from the tech goliath. Deric White, 68, was awarded the cash after Regent Street Apple Store "geniuses" in London deleted photos and the address book on his iPhone while performing a factory reset during a repair. White had taken Apple to court alleging …
How could he have 15 years worth of photos on his phone without some sort of backup, be it physical or digital?
.. especially since the iPhone defaults to enabling iCloudy stuff when you set it up? If they guy is not IT literate he would not have disabled this, if he IS literate he'd have it backed up. In addition, the store does indeed warn you that they may nuke the contents. Usually they don't, but they do warn you.
Something is not quite adding up here.
Whatever happened, and I'm 99% certain he didn't listen to the FRS or Genius, the user is at fault for not backing up their data. There are multiple ways to do so.
Also, the "15 years of contacts" claim is obviously total rubbish - where were they stored before he got an iPhone that's only been around for a maximum of 3-4 years?
I've had contacts on my phone almost that long.
In 2001 I was late coming home from work experience, and so an old Ericsson A1018S was placed in my hand and I was taken to a shop to get a SIM card for it.
When that phone died, the SIM moved temporarily into a Motorola MicroTAC, then into a Nokia 3310 where it stayed for 9 years.
When that died, it moved into a ZTE 3G flip-phone temporarily, before I bought a more ruggedised phone to replace it. I used their software tools to back up my contacts onto the computer. The move to 3G meant new SIM card, so I restored the back up from the computer.
My present phone uses the same SIM card, with contacts that were originally captured by the Ericsson phone back in 2001.
where were they stored before he got an iPhone that's only been around for a maximum of 3-4 years?
Ha ha, you must be getting old, mate, like me - the years go by faster as you get older.
The first iPhone came out in June 2007, over 8 years ago. But I know how you feel. It only seems like a few short years to me too!
I don't understand why people seem so deperate to try and find ways to "prove" this guy was lying.
I've got contacts over 15 years old which I've trnaferred from phone to phone. They started as SIM contacts and have become a mix over time until I think they're now all none-SIM. I think quite lot of people are in that situation.
I may have some temporary copies during the tranfer process but I don't keep those copies.
The only difference between me and this chap is that I have taken a backup of my phone and my contact list doesn't matter that much too me.
At the end of the day I imagine he was more worried about his photos anyway.
I disagree: IMO the `genius' is at fault for not checking with the customer as to whether or not a backup was available, and, if not, offering to backup (maybe temporarily, just over the service period) for that customer.
The Genius' job is repairing hardware. If they had to take a backup of every device they handled they would hardly have any time doing repairs. Some people have stupid amounts of data on their devices, and having to back up 64GB takes time. In addition, who is to blame if the device is already defective?
The user must make backups, because they have the device in working order. When a Genius gets it it may already be bust.
Now excuse me while I wash my keyboard - I would have loved Apple choosing a different term for their techs. Ugh.
And Apple aren't at fault for not also taking a backup before wiping his phone as, oh I don't know... BEST PRACTICE ?
.. and who would assure the guy that his data would not be looked at when in storage? There's also the protection of the customer's privacy at stake here.
If someone wants Apple to make backups I think they should be made to pay for the time it takes. Backups are IMHO a user responsibility. It's not like it's hard to set up on an iPhone - as a matter of fact, it normally is set up by default. The only stupid thing with an iTunes backup is that it doesn't keep at least an alternate set - it tends to nuke the backup you need when you have set it to automatic and you hook it up to restore a backup to a phone. Duh.
This is a very poor decision by the court. My normal reflex is to always blame the huge multinational corporation, but in this case the user got what he deserved.
At some point it is the end users' responsibility to back their data up.
As has been noted above, he has not owned an iPhone for 15 years, so where are the older devices? Can the photos be restored from them?
Probably one of those "I'm never wrong" idiots I occasionally come across in my tech support duties.
This is a very poor decision by the court.
No different really than a lot of other decisions... like the award for the old lady who spilled her coffee and sued McDonalds because 'it was hot and no one told her'. Or the idiots who won lawsuits for doing stupid things with ladders? And let's not even start on the patent trolls winning.
Oh.. coffee isn't supposed to be hot? Unless it's iced coffee maybe. If I set a steaming cup (and a flimsy Styrofoam cup at that) down between my legs, I expect to get burnt. You don't?
BTW, read the whole article. Coffee is served that hot at many restaurants, even today.
Yes it is the user's responsibility to back up their data. If he had dropped his phone in the ocean then he would not be able to sue anyone and he would have to kick himself very hard.
The issue is that many support channels first port of call is to factory reset or restore back to base - whether PC, phone or other. It doesn't matter the disruption this will cause or how likely it might be to solve the issue, it is #3 on the support script after is it turned on and reboot it.
It would be very easy for these 'geniuses' to 1) check with the customer or check themselves whether cloud backup was on, 2) inform the customer that they were going to have to factory reset the phone and he would lose all contacts, photos, music, documents, wifi settings etc to see if he wanted to make sure he had copies first or 3) actually try to sort out the problem first without having to jump straight into a factory reset.
Probably one of those "I'm never wrong" idiots I occasionally come across in my tech support duties.
I'm suprised after all if you expect all your users to know how to do all the computer stuff, why do they need you?
You do realise that the crap about tech support being socially maladjusted comes from that sort of attitude don't you?
Hang on... surely... oh ffs.
I guess it was cheaper for Apple to chuck some chicken feed over, than to say "If you're not full of shit then you're a fucking idiot."
And £773 legal costs? In London? The consultation must have consisted of "uh, sure, might as well go for it. Fill in this form, see you in court."
Oh well, I guess he can go back to the Seychelles and take the photos again.
Every tech company is crystal clear about sending a product in for repair: you will lose your data; make sure you have a backup. The reason why is incredibly simple: you'll likely not get the same device backup as it's often far cheaper to just give you a replacement than spend the time trying to fix something.
There must be more to this story. The only way I could possibly see Apple being at fault is if they had promised him they would save the data - and god help the moron that would have promised that.
"Deric White, 68, was awarded the cash after Regent Street Apple Store "geniuses" in London deleted photos and the address book on his iPhone while performing a factory reset during a repair."
He did not send the phone back to Apple for repair, he took it to an Apple store where the "geniuses" did a factory reset. The "geniuses" needed to warn him right then and there that he would, without fail, lose his data. If they did and he said okay, then he himself is culpable but if they didn't warn him, then the "geniuses" and their employer, Apple, are culpable.
As ever, what appears in the T&C's is not of paramount importance; what matters is what a 'normal man in the street' would consider reasonable.
Since we all know that such a person doesn't know what a proper backup is, clearly Apple has responsibility for making sure that EITHER they do a proper backup themselves, or get CLEAR consent to wiping everything.
Granted a user should back up their data. Granted also that the average man in the street knows nothing about it. This was so-called "GENIUS" Customer Service. Providing good service to the customer includes suggesting a quick backup before a factory reset. A Genius Geek will have ways to do it.
You lot saying "he got what he deserved" are what give IT folks a bad name. Sitting in your ivory tower of Know-It-All, mocking those less knowledgeable. You were an ignorant git too once, or have you forgotten that? Instead politely inform people of what they should know and steer them to solutions. A good CS geek would have headed this problem off. I would have.
Also granted the techs might have been under time constraints to get it done quick and not fool around waiting for a backup. Tech support shops are often like that, in which case Apple policy blew it. I can only speculate.
I'm wondering if any of them turn up to a hospital and how they would feel if the staff there went, "What you don't know maxillofacial surgery? Well thats just your own fault isn't it? Here a knife there's a mirror if you lose an eye don't come crying to me out of the one thats left, you should know this shit you loser"
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No, the court has made so that somebody with the job title of "genius" should have the intelligence to warn a pensioner that he may lose his photos, and to check that he's happy with that, and provide advice on how to back up anything important. Judging by the self-righteous,arrogant responses above, it's easy on an iPhone, so, shouldn't be too difficult for a genius to sort out.
A standard iTunes install will sync those photos to a Mac or PC when the iPhone is connected. The setup procedure in a new iPhone also encourages enabling iCloud (it asks "are you sure" when you skip the iCloud setup step)
Safe to assume he didn't do either. What I can't figure out is how the Genius could have deleted his photos. Only way I can think of is a full reset of the iPhone, and that requires entering the password. Maybe the guy didn't have a password set either?
"Maybe the guy didn't have a password set either?" Maybe he didn't have a computer either, most likely not the only person in the world with just a phone, my aunt aged 91 comes to my mind. Backup?.. what .. please my knees!. What the hell, you expect the car you take to be repaired to contain your stuff when you get it back.
Now that this moronic wig-wearer has sided with an iTard's reasoning that he should never, ever, have to be responsible for his own data, computer shops around the UK will now have to make up big signs declaring that they cannot be held responsible for loss of data due to the computer/phone/fondleslab owners laziness.
Car Analogy:
A man takes his car in to the dealer due to the radio producing nothing but static, and then sues the dealer for not re-programming the replacement radio with his favourite stations.
No, a better car analogy is you take your car in to have a puncture repaired. Standard procedure at the garage is to hoover out the interior prior to repair and they bin the diamonds you had in the glove box without telling you. Then they change the tyre and act smug because your car is clean.
The outcome of this is hopefully that full reset stops being the fix for everything including broken hardware. He should have had a backup, but they should also offer to perform one if possible before blindly resetting everything.
My bog-standard agreement includes a clause that though we try to retain or back up files, data can be lost during the repair process and the owner is responsible for backups BEFORE bringing the device for repair. There is another line item that limits my liability to the amount charged for the repair. This agreement is signed and filed for every item I have ever worked on - that's 6300 and counting!
My mother is of retirement age and owns dozens of USB storage drives. Even she knows not to leave files only on a phone or laptop!
Maybe your mother has someone to give them advice?
Maybe this guy doesn't?
There are people out there who go out and buy phones based on what their friends have, maybe one of your mums friends has the same phone as mum, with no one to advise them.
IMHO If someone pays for a "genius" to assist them, they have a reasonable expectation of genius service.
Part of the problem is that Apple markets to the lowest common tech savvy denominator. Consequently expecting joe public to be au fait with back up protocols when "it just works" is part of the reason why he had a case.
Data loss is always a risk, as is backup restoration failure but it should have been a standard practice for the Apple "genius" to backup before doing anything that could have even vaguely led to the possibility of data loss.
Having experienced Apple users who buy new machines when "the old one is full" ( I kid you not ) the concept of external storage is a mystery, let alone backing up data and restoring it.
Ultimately, if you sell to idiots dont complain when it turns out they are idiots.
As for the Apple "Genius" label that in itself is a wide open invite for litigation, after all, a genius wouldnt make a basic error like not backing up before performing a factory reset!
"Apple claimed White had agreed to the possibility of losing his stored data when he handed the iPhone over for repairs."
ok, so it's only a 'claim' and it's in Apples favour, but for all the people above saying the 'genius' should have done a backup, maybe, but (if) they did warn the guy that 'you might lose all your stuff' how can he have any comeback when he DOES lose all his stuff...?
customer : Hi, my phone isnt working propper, fix it now
genius : should be able to, you might lose your stuff
C : fine, whatever
G : done,
C: where's all my stuff, i'll sue
There's a large lack of understanding here for someone who may not have anywhere near the level of knowledge you guys have.
My parents are about the same age as this guy - my dad used to be a mainframe engineer, he really knew his stuff when it came to computers and was even coding stuff when I was a kid. Then he got Multiple Sclerosis, which has affected his mind as well as his body, and is no longer anywhere near as capable with a computer (every time I visit I clean his PC, and check all his hardware out, because he has become way too trusting, and far too likely to install things he has been told to by people out to con him.)
My mum hasn't had to use a computer much for over 20 years, she has a mobile phone but she doesn't really understand it, and I have to re-teach her how to use things every time I visit.
They are both in the 67-70 age range, and I could quite believe that they might find themselves in this situation. They don't understand, and rely on people who do to actually tell them things, explain them, and make sure they get what's about to happen.
I can very easily see them taking their phone to be repaired, not really understanding what is going on fully, and losing stuff that they didn't realise they would lose.
So please try not to judge this guy based on what you know, and what you would do.
There's a difference between saying
I can easily appreciate how an elderly gent could fail to back up his photos because he doesn't understand how his phone in particular and the internet in general work. I am sympathetic to him losing his photos due to a data wipe, as I would be sympathetic to him losing his photos to a fault, theft, accident, etc.
and
Apple should be liable for his photos, despite the fact that the setup process would have told him to back up his photos (and made it the default), despite the fact that on booking a genius appointment you get warned about this and despite the fact that the genius warned him at the time*.
The first is empathy (but shouldn't have led to a court payout), the second is ridiculous.
*ok the old guy claims he didn't but who seems more likely to have misremembered the details:
1. Old guy who's whole case hinges on him not understanding how a phone works or what was going on.
2. 'Genius' who runs through the same customer service script dozens of times a day.
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