back to article Cops' IT too complex for quick and dirty revamp – Police ICT boss

Coppers' IT is so complex and varied across the 43 different forces, a complete "big bang" overhaul of systems to force consolidation is not practical - the head of the Police ICT company Martin Wyke has said. Speaking to The Register, Wyke said that due to the varying IT arrangements and outsourcing contracts across the …

  1. Tony S

    I wish him luck

    A while ago, I saw the HO for one of the forces (IT being managed by Capita; hmmm!) and I've seen first hand some of the problems that he will face.

    The big problem is going to be to get the relevant buy in from the top down; and I'm not sure that will happen, as they all seem to be more concerned about maintaining their own little fiefdoms.

    There's certainly major scope to generate efficiency and reduce bureaucracy; and with it, big savings and improved services. I really hope that he does well; but I won't be holding my breath.

    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge

      Re: I wish him luck

      "The big problem is going to be to get the relevant buy in from the top down; and I'm not sure that will happen, as they all seem to be more concerned about maintaining their own little fiefdoms."

      True.

      At the same time this stuff seems to work best if they are not imposed by Whitehall. IE when individual forces get together to share costs.

  2. AndrueC Silver badge
    Facepalm

    If you watch The Force on Sky One you'll notice that the Manchester call centre uses Windows XP. That was 2014 so perhaps they've upgraded to something else by now :-/

    1. wyatt

      I know of at least 2 forces still using XP desktops in large numbers. I'm sure there are more. Legacy applications are one of the reasons they haven't upgraded yet.

  3. Buzzword

    Where does it end?

    Think of the waste involved in having different systems between French and British coppers. We could save so much money if we just had one great big European police IT service.

    Then again, I'd better not give them ideas....

    1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

      Re: Where does it end?

      I think the different laws and legal requirements would put a stop to that.

    2. Primus Secundus Tertius

      Re: Where does it end?

      Especially if it was all done in one language, e.g. German.

      1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

        Re: Where does it end?

        NOW you're talking!

  4. Fraggle850

    Nice to see the plods have this new-fangled 'IT' thing under control

    It's good to know that all obersturmbannfuhrer May's intercepted data will be in safe hands.

    1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

      @Fraggle850

      That would be the equivalent of a lieutenant colonel in rank. Surely she must be rated higher?

      1. Fraggle850

        Re: @Fraggle850

        Oberst-Gruppenführer? Reichsführer?

        Pls advise ASAP, don't want to get on her naughty list!

        1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

          Re: @Fraggle850

          Too late, matey...

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Baby and bath water . . .

    I always worry with things like this that genuine reasons for doing things differently in different areas just get steam-rollered by the convergence/unification/economies of scale arguments.

    On the other hand it must be hard to separate the genuine requirements from the 'not invented here' moaning.

  6. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "The Police ICT company was finally set up this year after years in the planning."

    So it'll be able to get on top of the problem quite quickly. Almost certainly by the end of the century.

  7. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Bedfordshire should be able to finance their share. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-34719997

    1. Michael B.

      Blimey - Easyjet sponsoring Bedfordshire Police?

      New sponsored caution?

      "You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not book a great low cost flight from Easyjet to a destination of your choice with prices starting from just 10 pounds book online at Easyjet.com..."

      1. Mayhem

        Re: Blimey - Easyjet sponsoring Bedfordshire Police?

        "Any trips you do take will be used in evidence against you in the court of public opinion..."

        1. Fraggle850

          Re: Blimey - Easyjet sponsoring Bedfordshire Police?

          Blimey guv, betta not use Sleazyjet when I visit me old chinas in their 'retirement' properties on the Costa del Crime, flights'll be crawling wi' sweeney now that the rozzers are in bed wi' Stellios!

          Any suggestions as to suitable sponsors for other forces? As a brummie I'd go for Cadbury, comedic opportunities for jokes about chocolate teapots...

    2. Otto is a bear.

      Apart from the fact

      That speed camera fines are not retained by the police. They could however hold a referendum in Bedfordshire to increase the police precept, but then no PCC has the balls to do that. I suspect the public might be more sympathetic to a few pounds on their council tax to replace the huge cuts some forces are facing.

      1. BoldMan

        Re: Apart from the fact

        He could start by reviewing his own salary and that of the overpaid consultants that he's hired to come up with ideas to scare the community into supporting his inefficient policies!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apart from the fact

        Apart from the fact That speed camera fines are not retained by the police.

        Read the detail. The local plods can pocket up to £100 markup on speed awareness courses. Bedfordshire's dimmest think that they'll be policing by consent by setting the speed traps to 1 mph or less over the posted limit and collecting vast income from the M1. Those who don't qualify for a speed awareness courses will pay the usual fines in the usual way.

        The curious thing is the fact that the Flatfoot in Chief thinks that (a) people won't react and slow down, so the income ceases, and (b) that this will do no harm to their reputation.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Wonderful! The (Bedfordshire) Police are managed by those with no knowledge of Police history and insufficient imagination to see one or two problems coming down the line:

      "Child rape sir, well that's a bit expensive. Upwards of £500,000 on the first charge, but there are discounts for repeat offending".

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If it was me I'd pick one force, update and get all their systems set up for the requirements integrating fire and ambulance at their levels along the way. Then I'd just move one force at a time aligning them into one system and facilitating the necessary training running dual systems as I go. Obviously a prerequisite to that would be to ascertain all the information/system/database requirements from all the forces and consolidate. The main problem I think would be push back as at the end of the day the people you need the information off know that eventually it will cost them their jobs.

    It won't happen though as time and time again these government projects just spaff public money away.

    1. chris 17 Silver badge

      yep and reinforce that commitment by promising 5 years free IT provision, forces buy the hardware (PC's, tablets & phones) and PICT / PITO supply the centralised applications & data management.

      top cops will suddenly get 5 years of It spend to do what they want and Gov get a centralised IT with all the control they need to cut costs.

      simpels.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Mind how you go!

    So we report crime by Skype and they type it up for the Rolodex?

    1. AndrueC Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Mind how you go!

      they type it up for the Rolodex?

      Nah, most of them write it by hand. The problem is that some use a ball point pen, some use a pencil and one force (who clearly have better control of their budget) use a fountain pen.

      1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

        Re: Mind how you go!

        As this documentary shows, this problem has been known for more than 20 years. You'd think they'd found a viable solution by now.

  10. RealBigAl

    That should go well, guess where he worked until recently?

    http://www.cio.co.uk/news/cio-career/police-ict-company-appoints-talktalk-cio-as-chief-executive-3616956/

  11. SniperPenguin

    So that will be innovation killed off, new technologies / ideas stifled by large procurement contracts, and a massive brown envelope resulting in any conversation with a reseller / consultant ending with "Sorry, we have to use <LEGACY VENDOR> for our storage as part of the contract"

    Whomever wins said contracts will be looking forward to selling 4Gb USB sticks for £36, Trust Keyboards for £28 and printer cartridges for £119.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @SniperPenguin

      Are you suggesting that this is just another way for the Tories to make their rich mates even richer?

  12. Otto is a bear.

    Police IT in general is a mess

    Most forces have built up their IT piecemeal. They also can't decommission old systems because they hold evidence, and refused to pay for the data to be migrated to their new systems. Many systems are built on technology that's over 20 years old, even the shiny new SaaS offerings.

    The Home Office hasn't helped either, giving money to one force to develop a new capability, and then, because technology has moved on, asking another force to develop an improved capability.

    Even in the back office they don't use common ERP or service providers. Case, HR & Duty systems don't talk to each other, so you can never find out who has the right skills and is actually on duty. Assets are duplicated because no one knows where the existing ones are, or who has them. I could go on.

  13. Zmodem

    the central database for the national ID card base has to still exist with all those billions IBM or HP took for it over the years

    all of the forces should still be able to have a central database, and then all stations would just need a new computer

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Evening all!

    Funnily enough, no other force wants to partner with Beds as they'll be clobbered with the shared costs of policing Luton.

  15. HAL-9000

    Are they sure?

    No one's noticed that (untill march this year) Martin was CIO at talk talk, I'm sure the plods IT needs are in good hands

    LINKEDIN

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