Music lovers move to block Phil Collins' rebirth Concerned music lovers are backing a petition aimed at preventing Phil Collins' musical rebirth. The former Genesis drummer and famed solo artist stepped out of the limelight in 2011, intending to spend more time with his family. However, he announced last month he was planning a new album. He told Rolling Stone: "I'm no …
I don't get what people have against musicians who are extremely successful at what they do?
Collins made a mint in his day by extremely popular, as did Dire Straits and Nickelback, etc. Their songs are exactly as good (or bad) as they day they were written, but the fact they sell a bunch of records seems to be a flag to some self-appointed judges that that makes them 'bad'. How fucking arrogant is that, to make malicious jokes to shore up their own insecurities.
Phil Collins - can take or leave him myself, but he was hugely popular, so clearly not 'bad' by any absolute, objective standard.
Collins made a mint in his day by extremely popular, as did Dire Straits and Nickelback, etc. Their songs are exactly as good (or bad)
You don't have to be either good or bad to be popular but it would seem that producing bland and unchallenging music generally helps.
Phil Collins = Popular.
Stravinsky = Not popular.
I know which I prefer and I can't help but feel that Igor would have had a bigger audience if Rite of Spring was played by a gorilla in a chocolate commercial.
You're a true SJW, aren't you? I think the likes of Phil Collins are rich enough and successful enough to be able to handle a few people who don't like their music taking a pop at them. If he doesn't have a thick skin by now, he can probably afford to buy one.
It's not about whether they are "bad" in any objective sense; art is subjective, and it's valid to express one's particular dislike for an artist on occasion (professional critics make a living in part from doing so). Personally I can only express profound indifference to Phil Collins, but there are artists for whom I'd find such a campaign pretty funny.
"I don't think Nazi Germany was an art project."
Well technically Hitler was a failed painter. At least he thought of himself as an artist. Which goes to show that you really should let anybody enroll in art schools/academies no matter what, just to be on the safe side. That's money well spend, IMO. Plus every now and then you'll get a good music group out of it (Beatles, Rolling Stones, Tuxedomoon, The Clash, to list some personal favourites.)
That being said, have an upvote.
Dictatorship, a World War and industrialised genocide haven't really a place in a discussion about Phil Collins, thats just disproportionate. Okay, +6/10 for advanced trolling, but -10^6/10 for lack of style.
It's not his first come back attempt. Backing band could do with a bit more practice though.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCUQtwIwAGoVChMIieKXv5D3yAIVhL4UCh3wIwty&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D5Jmc6TZ5Guw&usg=AFQjCNEnQhtXkZXwgmwY4nrX9_QsG87f0w&bvm=bv.106379543,bs.1,d.ZWU
Sounds like a genuine act, not the normal publicity seeking crap
Phil Collins - can take or leave him myself, but he was hugely popular, so clearly not 'bad' by any absolute, objective standard.
I've just tried replacing "Phil Collins" in that sentence with "Black Lace", or "Renee and Renato", or "Keith Harris & Orville", or "Chris de Burgh", or <ulp> have to run...
Oh please, Phil Collins stepped out from behind the drumseat of a rather talented band, for a while filled Peter Gabriel's vocal and writing boots quite admirably, and then lost it on Motown re-tread, schlock easy listening snoozers, and bouncy annoying junk that would make Billy Joel cringe. He was like a little boy, glurging over his over-excited pre-pubescent tastes with no self-restraint. I had a girlfriend at the time who wanted me to appreciate his sensitive side. Instead I grabbed my backpack and hit the road. 30 years later, you should too - just move on. As for the UN peacekeepers put in place to keep him in retirement, I suggest hazardous duty pay.
...even in the invisible touch of space Scott Kelly seems to be turning into a Phil lookie-likee.
Akchewally -- on the Live Aid do Collons proved that his old skills of a session drummer had not been forgotten. He was bloody good on the day - bloody good as Genesis drummer, too.
The 1980's was not a kind decade to most people - a quick look at 'Challenge' TV and 'Wheel of Fortune' reveals skinny people in shoulderpads that these days would need planning permission or motorcycle outriders to warn oncoming traffic.
God, hell, the 80s! A decade best forgotten. When synths were new and expensive in the 70s, there was a fair amount of good and worthwhile experimentation (whether you liked the result or not). When the technology became cheap in the 80s, everybody had a go and most of it was crap.
They probably said the same about electric guitars in the late 50s, but I'm not old enough to remember.
Biggest 1980s disappointment: ZZ Top spent the 70s as a good (but barely known outside the US) blues/rock band with a recognisable style of their own. In the mid 80s they had one hit heavy rock album which made them a global name, but after that they went mainstream, did what their record company wanted and put a synth edge to everything with a pop rhythm. It was crap, and they dropped from sight again.
Re: Worst of all the 'eighties revival' has lasted longer than the bloody decade did originally!
That's because the premise "A decade best forgotten" is complete bollocks!
Late Punk, Ska, New Romantics, NWBHM, Rockabilly, Red Wedge (politically motivated), Electropop and onto Club, to go along with the mainstream 'pop' which was influenced by it all.
All diverse music genres which came on the scene in that decade, name another decade with such musical diversity.... no you won't...
"did what their record company wanted and put a synth edge to everything with a pop rhythm. It was crap, and they dropped from sight again."
I rather like their synth rock style. Their 70s stuff was an exercise in dull tedium.
And I remember several bands sampling (from vinyl) the snare with the gated (backward) reverb, using an RMX15-80 (complete with the noise they produced).
That sound must have been used on a hell of a lot of tracks in early/mid 80s. It didn't seem to improve the music...
When synths were new and expensive in the 70s, there was a fair amount of good and worthwhile experimentation (whether you liked the result or not). When the technology became cheap in the 80s, everybody had a go and most of it was crap.
Yes, 80s synths were cheaper - but if you listen, you'll realize it was the introduction on FM synthesis [on Yamaha DX7, DX9] that gave us the distinctive 80s synth noises. Sampling was also becoming more available to musicians [apart from "19" which was all delay lines..]
It was also the movement from analog to digital synths, but more so the proliferation of MIDI : synths, sequencers and drum machines hooked together [the drummer on A-ha's "Take on me" was a LinnDrum machine]
Agree about ZZ-Top, but if not for "TV Dinners" video et al I would never have heard of them until moving to Houston.
Dying in May of 1980 Ian Curtis unfortunately missed most of the 1980s. We all missed him too. Decent music pretty much ceased to be made after 1982. No one got paid enough to do it. I can still remember listening to Phantasmagoria and thinking, what is this? Even selling out couldn't earn The Damned any coin.
I can often tell people's approximate age when they refer to the 80s as the decade of bad taste.
Because if they believe that's true, they're much too young to remember the seventies. Huge collars, kipper ties, flares, platform soles and glam rock. Oh, and Brotherhood of Man. And the Bay City Rollers.
<shudder>
You left out macramé vests, plaid pants, polyester-is-cool! and such dreck music as "Shannon", "Feelings" and "Disco Star Wars".
The 80s definitely had its problems (I still remember Rolling Stones' hilarious trashing of "Johnny Hates Jazz", starting the review with "Perhaps that's because jazz takes talent to play.") However 80s > 70s
Ah but it wasn't bad taste at the time, it was fashion. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing; Many fine things emanated from that decade as did much dreadful tat and this applies to pretty much every decade post 1950. I was there through all of them, a truly proud old fart. This present decade will take the biscuit for suite music methinks.
"Say 'No' to puns based on Phil Collins/Genesis song titles
That's All."
Two people downvoted me! I'm going to go and cry to my Mama. In some sense I want another person to downvote me so I can say "...and then there were three...". (But Seriously, please don't. Although It Don't Matter to Me, as I Don't Care Anymore.)
The really telling part for me is that every one of those puns started the song playing in my head! I guess I listed to them a lot back in the day. FWIW, I have CDs of Genesis with and post Peter Gabriel, and Phil's solo albums. And Peter Gabriel's solo albums. Some great stuff on those. Not all of it, but enough.
And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, Oh Lord
Can you feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord, oh Lord
Well, if you told me you were drowning
I would not lend a hand
I've seen your face before my friend
But I don't know if you know who I am
Well, I was there and I saw what you did
I saw it with my own two eyes
So you can wipe off that grin,
I know where you've been
It's all been a pack of lies
And I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
Well, I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord
I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord, oh Lord
And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord, oh Lord
Well I remember, I remember don't worry
How could I ever forget,
It's the first time, the last time we ever met
But I know the reason why you keep your silence up,
No you don't fool me
The hurt doesn't show
But the pain still grows
It's no stranger to you and me
And I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
Well, I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord
I can feel it in the air tonight, oh Lord, oh Lord
But I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord
I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
But I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord
I can feel it in the air tonight, oh Lord, oh Lord, oh Lord
But I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord, oh Lord.
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Indeed... It's a nice change to actually having a musician playing instruments and performing, instead of a full line up of clothes/markup singing someone else's track played by unnamed session musicians.
(Or even worse, covering/destroying a classic track I liked from my youth whilst contributing nothing new to it musically!)
And so long as he doesn't produce any more "Su su sudio" or "You'll be in my heart" shite, the world will be a better place for it.
It probably wouldn't hurt to have his old Genesis bandmates nearby to smack his bald head when he thinks that the studio bosses know better.
> It probably wouldn't hurt to have his old Genesis bandmates nearby
And preferrably doing *new* music rather than just covering the old (and somewhat extensive) back catalogue.
Much like Steve Hackett does. Although I did enjoy his "Genesis Revisted" tour. The ultimate tribute band :-)
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I love being quoted wikipedia by a youngster.
All competent prog rock bands influenced each other to some extent. KC weren't the only band screwing with time signatures for fun (hell, there are outtakes of the Beatles playing around in that sandbox), just one of the better known.
Stop reading wikipedia and go listen to some music from the 70s people who weren't there feel was such a terrible time, musically. Let your ears inform you, and then make your own subjective decision as to how much influence group a had on group b.
> go listen to some music from the 70s
And 80's. And 90's. And Noughties. And [whatever you call this decade]ies..
Prog is still pretty alive - from Prog Metal (Dream Theater - listen to "Octavarium" sometime, Magic Pie, Strativarius, Nightwish) to NeoProg (IQ, Marillion) to traditional Symphonic Prog (Marillion again, Flower Kings, Spocks Beard, Transatlanic, Kaipa, Porcupine Tree, Steve Wilson, Unitopia, United Progressive Fraternity, Deexpus Project, Karmakanic, Pendragon, White Willow, Pallas - just to name a few - the ones in my playlist on my phone!).
Can you tell I enjoy prog? I even have a beard :-)
Yes, but the late 60s and early 70s is when prog was being invented. You'll hear the music being born rather than being refined. We are talking about a time when the term "tribute band" did not exist.
ELP, King Crimson, Yes, Van Der Graaf Generator, Genesis, the list is almost endless and by the early-mid 70s was gathering acts like The Strawbs under the umbrella. This was a time of musical revolution and innovation.
By the 80s everyone was following well-laid tracks.
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.. pop band.
I don't know, if I'd spent twenty years taking it on the ear every day of my life for playing prog, perhaps the most reviled form of music in the entire history of western civilization, I might want a change of pace, besides getting filthy rich in the process. Sweet, sweet revenge.
leaving broke Genesis, They survived the departure of Peter Gabriel. But when Hackett left, Genesis became more pop orientated. Even so "Home by the sea", "Duchess" and "Your own special way" remain my favourite post Hackett tracks and stand by themselves.
I have much respect for Phil Collins' drumming skills. And I reckon anyone who has tried to play any instrument and who has also listened to Genesis from the early days would agree.
I look forward to hearing what he comes out with, he has the recognition to pull some great musicians into this project. I just hope he remembers his roots and does not make pop songs.
As someone else mentioned... He comes from a time when musicians could play an instrument and the stage performance of a live act was almost indistinguishable from the studio recording.
Since I do enjoy listening to Percy Faith, Bert Kaempfert, and Barbra Streisand, I thought my musical tastes might be unusual enough to enjoy Phil Collins too.
So I looked up Sussudio on YouTube. In the comments on the version I listened to, there was a mention of "The Greatest Love of All" by Whitney Houston. But George Benson also did a version of that, so people of discerning musical tastes have something to listen to there.
I also saw in those comments that Sussudio was used a couple of times in films for either violent or sexual scenes, and these may have burdened it with unfortunate associations.
Have an upvote.
As my CDs are neatly filed in alphabetical order, Alien Sex Fiend sits next to Herb Alpert, Bert Kaempfert shares a shelf with Die Krupps, as do Henry Mancini and The Meteors or Walter Wanderley and Stevie Wonder... The great thing about music is that there is so much of it, both in sheer quantity and variation. Enjoy!
it makes a change from the the arse gravy spouting forth from the fuck nugget that is Jason De Rulo. An "artist" so bad he has to tell you his name at the start of every track so you have the opportunity to kill yourself before it gets going.
Love or hate Phil Collins and/or Genesis but at least he has some talent, unlike a lot of the current bunch of muppets.
he's a nice guy and fun to make fun of
I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Christy, take off your robe. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. Sabrina, remove your dress. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Sabrina, why don't you, uh, dance a little. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as anything I've heard in rock. Christy, get down on your knees so Sabrina can see your asshole. Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and Against All Odds. Sabrina, don't just stare at it, eat it. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Sussudio, a great, great song, a personal favorite.
IIRC it was Mike Rutherford that wrote the lyrics to to Land of Confusion..
As for the group's masterpiece it's between Foxtrot ot Selling England for a lot of people.
Although I have a soft spot for A Trick of The Tail - first album of theirs I bought. First few bars belting out of my old Dad's Tannoy Lanchesters - I was hooked for life.
Perhaps its not a surprise he is recording again, since the 80s are well and truly back.
At least, they are if fashions round here are anything to go by. I work at a University, and the stuff all the students wear is all straight from the 80s. I could swear* I saw a young Nik Kershaw just the other day!
* as in "...kin hell"
No, the 80s revival was several years back now; it's been and gone. I grew up with- and liked- quite a lot of 80s music, and even I was starting to get bored of it by about early 2011 and wondering how much longer it was going to last. (Another year or to, but it's definitely gone now).
Apparently the 90s are back in vogue with the "kids" now. I don't listen to pop radio much these days, but from what little I've picked up this means that lots of shitty, generic, mid-90s sounding dance tracks back in the charts, which is even worse because they were crap in the first place and never really went away, so we're currently in the 26th year of the 1990s.
Worse is that the Americans didn't "get" EDM (#) or rave culture until the new millennium and it only went really mainstream in the past few years, so Europe's getting it shoved down our throats with no respite despite the fact it doesn't even have any novelty value for us- it's well over 25 years since it broke here.
Half of the rest of the 1990s was crap 70s rock and 60s britpop revivalism anyway.
One or two exceptions aside, I wouldn't p*** on the 90s if they were on fire.
(#) BTW, I don't recall it ever being called "electronic dance music" until the Americans started making a deal of it
Isn't this a bit of a non-story? So what if someone wants to raise a petition to stop Phil Collins from making a comeback. It's not like it will make any difference for them. They may get a few signatures but ultimately any such petition will be ignored.
Personally I like Phil Collins, Genesis and all sorts of music from the 70's and 80's but don't feel the need to push my personal likes or dislikes onto other people. Not everyone is a fan but so what?
Wanna see one of the weirdest freaky films ever made starring Phil Collins and Hugo Weaving (V for Vendetta voice, Matrix' Agent Smith) from 1993?
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuMaaHzBVnU
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_StnoX1X58
Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U4Hkal0Bcw
The icon is totally appropriate. You'll see.
I never knew this, thanks for the links!
I absolutely loved him as guest star on Miami Vice as Phil the Shill.
I can't dance, I can't talk.
Only thing about me is the way I walk.
I can't dance, I can't sing
To be fair if PC comes on the radio it doesn't make me stab the off button like most of the shite today does. Our theatre group's panto production this year has a dance in it to Timber, by Pitbull. Words cannot describe how much I hate that bastard song.
Hey, if one homeless guy sang about the plight of the homeless, nobody would listen to him, and thus it wouldn't yield any progress in getting people to do things to help the homeless! So don't knock it being done by someone in a position to make a difference instead!
Phil Collins completely ruined Genesis when Peter Gabriel and Steve Hackett left. Turned them from a rock band into a pop group and his solo stuff is even worse. Unfortunatley his pop leanings seem to influence Mike Rutherford to form Mike & The Mechanics....makes me shudder just thinking about it ...
And you thought the members of Genesis were all intelligent, public school educated, adults capable of determining their own careers. Apparently not. They were all feeble minded puppets. Collins told them what to do, and they obeyed. Two thirds of the songs may have their names on them, but they were brainwashed into mindless drones, writing catching hits to Collins' evil masterplan!
Why, his control even extended to Gabriel, and he wasn't even in the band any longer! Yet with just the power of his mind, he forced Gabriel to write MTV friendly pop hits. Only Hackett escaped his clutches, slipping gratefully into semi-obscurity with his career unscathed by Collins.
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....seriously, can any of you honestly tell me you could listen to 'Easy Lover' and not feel it would be easier to hack your own ears off, that you could listen to 'You can't hurry love' and not wish for your life to hurry up and end, that you could listen to 'One more night' and not wish it was your last night of existence.... there really is something disturbing ‘In the air tonight'
Okay, the story made me chuckle, but...
Full disclosure: I still love Phil's often devilish Genesis drumming (and his frontman work with the band up until 1980-ish). Liked some of what he did with Brand X, too. I was never keen on his solo/pop-ier stuff but so what?
Point being, I do think he takes a lot of stick for no good reason. Some people seem to think he's the effing Antichrist.
The stars of jazz never had their age held against them when their genre ruled. Nor did they have popularity held against them. However, any musician who achieved success in the era of pop and rock must, it seems, run a gauntlet of derision and hate if they have the temerity to come out of the woodwork once they've passed some arbitrary age. I don't think that's fair and I don't think it's healthy.
Like his music or not, Collins was not manufactured; he was and remains a genuinely talented musician, whether or not anyone finds his music to their tastes. So let his next work stand or fall on its merits.
(Yeah, the eighties were awful in every way but at least I'll always have Seconds Out.)
Although I never bothered to listen to New Kids on the Block, some "manufactured" musical groups still seem to put out stuff that's at least entertaining. Think of Celtic Woman, brought to you by the people who came up with Riverdance. And what about Sonseo Shidae, also known as SNSD or Girls' Generation, a creation of SM Entertainment, which also gave us EXO?
I liked Genesis, didn't know who they were, liked the music. I got a bit older, a family member took me to see Phil and his Hot Tub Club. It was a great show!
As I learned about the industry, I learned that Phil was also a big behind the scenes guy. If his new music is a good listen, who cares. As I age I think we all put too much emphasis on the artists, and not their body of work as a musician. I am surprised at the number of songs I hated then, and like now.
Call me an ex music snob ??
I have absolutely nothing against Phil Collins on a musical level. He is a fantastic drummer and has made some memorable and iconic pop songs. How anyone has the nerve to start a petition against pop music that actually has a tune, melody, chords, lyrics and purpose I'll never know.
I hope this is just a bad joke as there are many, many appalling pop artists out there nowadays that need a petition to shut them up. They are so bad that I'd pay into a crowd fund or monthly subscription to make them go away. Pop today has never been worse. There is nothing in pop you are going to want to listen back to in 30 years time that is being made today.
Anyone complaining about 80's pop, an actual artist that can actually play their instrument (yes an instrument) and play it extremely well needs to go bin their useless Lady Gaga, Rhianna, Beyonce, Adele or dubstep/EDM collection and get a reality check.
... that PC actually sounded like PG (Peter Gabriel)?
Even if you were trying to start a tribute band and had the greatest vocalists auditioning for you, you'd be hard pressed to find a better singer than Collins, who actually did sound like Gabriel, quite a bit. It's actually uncanny for those that notice these things (producers with finely tuned ears like me), but anyone who 'listens' would be able to pick this out.
It's easy to laugh at Phil, and sometimes I still do, but I think he's a pretty cool fella all round. He has the respect of his musician peers for not only being an exceptionally talented drummer, he has the respect of his songwriting peers for being an exceptional songwriter (successful if nothing else).
He also used to hang around with John Martyn when they were both going through 'difficult' divorces. Not many people can say that.
He might have got a bit annoying through overload when he got all that success, but somehow he has remained a very humble individual. Look up the videos of him singing Carpet Crawlers (both on record and live). You will see a man that knows the score in life. He's not pompous, pretentious or precious. You can tell through all of this, that he still wonders at it all and probably says to himself every night in the bathroom mirror: 'How did I get here?' And not while doing a silly dance with a big suit on.
There are very very few artists of his note that I would feel comfortable working with. I'm talking sheer fame/celibrity, critical and financial success etc.
In short, he seems a very down to earth person all in all. How many people could maintain that after singing to tens of thousands of fans crying their eyes out whilst he sings: 'You got to get in to get out'? They aren't crying coz they want him to stop, they are crying because they love him, or at least love the way he can magically transport them to that place that only music can, when delivered in such an exemplary manner.
I'd go as far as to say he is a musical genius and a renaissance man all rolled in to one. I might even buy one of his records some day.
Signed NOT PB (Patrick Bateman).
What a bunch of willy-waving tools the Genesis boys turned out to be. Each one trying to prove to the others they were the real top dog. PG and PC were both desperate to prove they could make it big outside the group. Both were undeniably successful in terms of sales. But wouldn't it have been better for the ears of the world if they'd just got drunk and had a punch-up? Or fucked each other's wives like normal people?
I heard they were constantly on the lash and knocking seven bells out of each other. Not to mention an internecine shag fest that would put Fleetwood Mac to shame. </bad joke>
You're right about being willy waving fools though. But such is the life of being in a band. Everybody wanting a piece of you. Everyone telling you what you want to hear. Yet, those closest to you in said band will be saying the exact opposite - "I wrote our biggest hit so far", "But I did the first ever 15 minute drum solo", "That's nothing, I shagged your missus last night". Klang.
Jung called it ego inflation. And it's very real. To be fair to mr PC and PG, I think they might have lost it at one point, but at least they found it again eventually. Unlike the Kirks and Amys who just lost it.
If you ever hang around with a famous band after they have had their first commercially successful album, or two, you will find that they are not all matey in the VIP of the Limelight. No, they avoid each other, each carrying his/her own entourage and hangers on. That is a generalisation but more the rule than the exception. And then they do the 'difficult' third album. Yeah, right, we all know why it's fucking difficult don't we? You're at each other's throats all the time and hate each other's guts so much we can't even get you in the studio together for 10 minutes.
I'm a failed musician and have no particular fly in this otherwise rancid ointment, but being in a major band has major personal pitfalls. The pressure cooker of touring/recording and the manipulation by others (management, A and R, publishing, journalists and fans etc.) takes its toll after a while.
I'd say that PC has succeeded where someone like John Martyn failed. Some people have it all (demons included) and become bloated alcoholics and nasty and end up having their leg chopped off, others just crack on with it and are mildly annoying. I know which one I'd rather pick.
As for PG, he is critically acclaimed for his voice, his songwriting ability, his use of instrumentation and production, his adoption of new media and utilisation there of. Oh and as a performer as well. Not to mention giving up and coming artists a bit of a break and promotion. He even runs a bloody successful recording studio and employs a few regulars who run it.
He must lie awake at night, unable to sleep, wondering where it all went 'right' until the early dawn comes.
Anyway Tony, I know that's you - you never did like any of the P's did you?
Haha you got me... It really is Tony here.
I saw a Genesis documentary where Tony and Mike reflected on PC's career. 'Of cause we wished him success,' said Tony, 'he was a mate. But did he have to be *that* successful?' He was joking but also not joking, if you know what I mean.
I'm sure you are right about the internal band pressures that led to this toolish rivalry, but it amuses me that the often mocked pomposity of Genesis" music can be seen personified in the pointless struting and oneupmanship of the band members' solo careers.
Well Tony...
You bring up an interesting point. Very often that frisson or friction is what drives the artistic spirit on. Some call it the muse, and she certainly exists, but good old fashioned rivalry is probably just as responsible for great music.
It's hard for me to be a fan of anyone, coz I have 'producer's curse' - hell, I'm lucky if I can listen to my most beloved piece of music for 30 seconds without thinking 'no, no, bloody hell, what were you thinking Peter, you should have gone up not down there'.
I love some PC stuff and I love some PG stuff. Most of it is meh to me though. I've met some of my heroes and sometimes the bigger they are the nicer they are, they have nothing to prove. I've also come across some extremely disturbed individuals who might have been in a very successful band once, but no one is interested in them, or their type of music anymore. Sometimes nice people make bad music, and vice versa...
I could get into the whole homeless parody song 'paradise' by PC and how he was duped by Chris Morris. I could probably find something to criticise PG on as well. But we all make mistakes and are prone to lapses of judgement.
I doubt there is anything either of them can come up with now though that would be artistically WOW. They've both seen finer days I think. Still available to produce your albums though chaps if you're interested. Who knows, it might even be good.
Saw PIL the other day on the late show and it was just a few old men going through the motions - crap mediocre music. They had come back with some force, but were just shadows of their former selves. Sad, but there you go. Some people just don't know when to stop.
On that note.
I agree. Rivalry and competition are the best drivers for going the extra mile to produce great art, whether with band members, girlfriends or parents. A good example is PG's "So", which is the one thing produced by any Genesis band member that I like. There's an interesting account of its creation in Spencer Bright's biography of PG. But then look at the egotistical way PG went on to tour that album, particularly the celebratory renditions of "In Your Eyes". Nasty.
Anyway, cheers for my first down votes, Genesis fans. I'll enjoy seeing them on my account like a pile of PC ballads.
Only thing that really sticks in my mind about the 80's was the stunning female in the flat across from us that used to meticulously slowly undress by the window looking in a full length mirror that also reflected the kitchen window of the flat I shared.
I tried not to notice or even be by the window at that time but when you are doing the dishes it's easy to get distracted.
About the third time I spotted the vision she said something to her nasty looking body builder boyfriend (drove a Ford Granada cut-down pick up truck), pointed up to our window, I had a few moments of deep introspection then hoped I might see the 90's, some things tend to linger in the memory.
I loved the 80s! It was fun! I had fun!
Who gives a sh*t if some of the music wasn't sophisticated enough?
I enjoyed Pink Floyd, Phil Collins (mostly in Genesis), some Heavy Metal, some Disco, etc. Luckily no-one told me what to like back then. The 70s and 80s were the best two decades!
Today's popular music is mostly produced to death, in a bad way.
There are so many factors at play here. I can see all the angles. Not all of them good.
Firstly, there is no 'scene' any more. Venues closed down. Not possible to make money by playing live (unless you are mega), despite what many say. Abusive overlords sticking a fucking tv camera in your face when yer off yer face at Glastonbury. It invites idiots.
Talking of which, secondly, most people making music today shouldn't. The ones that haven't made it usually haven't made it coz they are mediocre (but think they are great). The big bands still going today like Pink Floyd have become shit, but it's too late in the day for the old dogs to learn new tricks when the majority of your life has been spent on some kind of weird upward continuum of success. Others like PIL and 'Johnny Rotten' embarrass themselves either because they need/want the money, or they have no life and are trying to relive the heady glory days when those young little 15 year olds would look up at you and stare at you as if you were a Greek God in total awe.
Thirdly, the actual music business itself has become more polarised and commercialised. The entire industry is owned by 2 or is it 3? major corporations. The indies sold out long ago. Nothing really replaced them, and pop just ate itself. By pop, I mean rock/pop/wtf mainstream. A lot of people at the top making a lot of money. Those in the middle are hoping they will get to the top and do their bidding waiting for a niche. Those at the bottom are the most desperate of all and will work for free/food.
Sturgeon's law applies more thoroughly in the music world than anywhere else I can imagine. The truth of the matter is, music is not so much dead, but resembling that bird that fell orf its perch - it's certainly in need of a bit of medical attention.
You have more closed ranks and cabals in operation now than you ever did. Except that Max Martin (one of the world's most untalented people/one of the world's most successful record producers) is no Arif Mardin, or a host of other greats I could mention. They've got it sewn up and they aren't giving it up. So that is why you see a ridiculous situation of a song by 'Spit on me ears' and 'Licky my vaj' having songwriting credits for like 10 fucking people. WTF? Jobs for the boys innit Mark Ronson.
In many ways I'm glad I failed. I still make music, but I want no part of it any more. I see the really successful record producers around on Gearslutz (the biggest record producer forum in the world) and even though they have produced Michael Jackson (commercial success) or Nirvana (critical success), they still have that dead look behind their eyes, like an old pro just going through the motions. It would seem they have had the life sucked out of them. There really doesn't seem to be any mechanism in the music biz with all its power and financial glory to really retire these people gracefully.
So many examples. I'll give just one.
Black Sabbath. Reunion. Critical acclaim. Cash in.
One problem though, the music was shit. All the critics loved it, even the fans loved it they have become so fucking brain dead (well only a few of them loved it actually) - they were on all the shows and they touted it as the late great BLACK SABBATH REUNION. One small flaw in their cunning plan, it was missing a member, a rather important member in fact, the man that actually gave Black Sabbath its sound more than any other - Bill Ward the drummer. You can look it up on the net but Ozzie's missus Sharon (you might have heard of her) pulled some shenanigans over payment. I forget the full story now. Sharon's dad was a man not to be trifled with in the music business is all I will say here, and she has certainly inherited some of his traits.
Point being, it was a charade to milk more money out of the punters. Everyone cashed in. A few weeks later it's all died down and forgotten about. This is what the music biz has become - the emperor has been well and truly stripped of his clothes. No one is even pretending any more. Just like what the government is doing - doubling down while it still can, becoming vicious and cynical in the process.
That's just what I think from my perspective. I know others make an argument that this is the greatest time to be alive and to make music and to have it heard by lots of people. And in a way that is true as well, for some people. But not most. Without venues, without 'scenes' such as prog or punk or acid, the whole thing is lost. It is reduced to post teen children sucking on baby's dummies and waving glow sticks in an infantile gesture that was even looked down upon over a quarter of a fucking century ago!
Really, that is how long we are talking. But who cares when you are on a dodgy E (is it even ecstasy?), have paid 10 quid to put your coat in, to wait in line for 2 hours to get it back out, to have the taps turned off and water at a bar you have to wait an hour to be served at, sell you an evian for a fiver. And the best part is, the Americans hijacked it and called it EDM (electronic dance music) and think they invented it an no one else has ever bloody heard of it. Insults and injuries abound. Same as it ever was really in a way...
I have come to hate music with a passion, at least those that are making it today or still making it today after many years. To all of you: Shut the fuck up, give someone else a go coz you're crap now, even if you were good once. You too Phil!
I passed the pub the other day and they had their annual band on - they were playing music from half a century ago. Post fucking war music in the 21st century I ask you. What hope does anyone have?
It was the government and gangsters that closed the whole thing down by destroying the venues from pubs to clubs to bars. They even brought in laws for this to make sure people weren't dancing to repetitive beats. Bit like making a plant illegal really. Silly, but most people fell for it.
We are truly at the end of days and in a state of decay where entropy really seems to have taken over now. And before you say: "Up yours Granddad", good for you. But tell me 'great white hope', do you honestly think you can outplay me, out write me, out produce me, out engineer me? Do ya? Do ya punk? I'll bet hard cash that whatever music you play to me that you made, I was making it at least ten years ago. And better.
Rant over, sorry Phil, love ya really baby. One of the advantages of being a failure in life. You can shout at the horses, even if you don't scare them anymore.
Today's "stars" say they can't possibly do a live show without lip-synching but this guy does 2 solid hours while playing instruments and singing live, without "autotune." He's got songs that fit all moods and many of them will instantly take you back to where you first heard them.
He did something right to sell so many albums, and for so many years. Any one-hit wonder can do an album or two but if you put out platinum albums and sell out concerts for 3 decades you may be onto something good. Beiber is never going to have a comeback tour 20 years from now. You don't see anybody clamoring for a Hanson reunion do you?
And I'll turn up the volume any time Silent Running comes on, so Mike & the Mechanics got one right too!
Phil Collins can't sing. He has a really poor voice. It's obvious his A&R man never liked him and gave an already thin, lacking in musicality, voice a hard metallic edge that makes it pretty much unlistenable.
Phil Collins doesn't play the drums. He uses his wealth to buy lots of hittable things and then he sits down and hits them. All of them; loudly and frequently.
Where do I sign?
I'll tell you if you can say where I can sign for him to proceed so our signatures cancel out.
At the end of the day, nobody is forced to listen to the music he produced, just as no one is forced necessarily to listen to today's music.
There's some genres of music I just cannot stand. Opera being one. Rap to me should be spelled and pronounced with a 'C' in front in my opinion.
People would probably say the same thing about an Abba come-back. Personally, my view is, don't like it? Don't listen. I dare say you'll apply that advice to my comment too and continue to moan loudly: this is your choice.
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