Mozilla to boot all plugins from Firefox … except Flash The Mozilla Foundation has revealed that some future versions of its flagship Firefox browser will ship without support for plugins of any sort. The organisation yesterday announced that “new platforms such as 64-bit Firefox for Windows will launch without plugin support.” Adobe Flash is the exception to the rule, because it …
Poor old moz has been slowly slipping away since its soul was sold to google fifteen years ago. That was when it ceased to innovate, ceased to evolve and ceased to function in the interests of its "community" (which died practically instantly). The braindead narcissists at the top, obsessed to obliviousness by their demented pie-in-the-sky whimsy, are the ONLY ones who couldn't (and STILL can't) see it.
RIP Netscape.
"It's confusing that in English, "plugin" and "extension" are pretty synonymous, but in Mozilla products, they mean distinct things."
Don't forget "addon" either. Worse still googling "plugin" will take you to the addon site. Too bad the article didn't explicitly exclude "extension". As if the naming conventions aren't confusing enough - one can be forgiven for confusing them.
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those are extensions and will still be available
Thanks for pointing this out! Have an upvote. Perhaps that should have been mentioned in the article itself.
I still think they should make it possible to opt-in to plugins for the few people that need them. As it is, Firefox is the only popular browser left with plugin support and there are some legitimate uses.
"I still think they should make it possible to opt-in to plugins for the few people that need them."
No, because that would imply that the FireFox folks still embrace giving the users a choice in how they use the browser. And if there's one thing that the FireFox folks have shown in recent years, it's that they don't give a damn about that. Use it they way they intended it to be used, or be damned. And if you don't like the increasingly dumbed-down interface and options available, well, tough-shit. And did they take out functionality that you used to like? Well, boo-hoo - give them a bunch of use cases that they'll accept and agree to and maybe they'll merely tell you to fuck off instead of telling you to go hang.
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=838681
Bitter? Me? no...well, maybe just a little..
Ah! Thanks for the clarification about "extensions" vs "plugins". The article would have done well to differentiate between the two. I probably knew that, but I know that I've always lumped "plugins" and "extensions" together as "plugins", and I'm probably not the only one.
Just stick "about:plugins" in the URL to see what plugins you have installed with version numbers and paths and all that icky technical stuff they don't want you to know.
Go to "about:addons" and get a more fruity page where you can also list "Extensions" (which aren't going away) as well as the "Plugins".
My big gripe is the VMWare web interface plugins - they are NPAPI and so don't work on Chrome, and VMware show no sign of porting them. My current solution for VMware host management on Linux is Firefox with Pepper Flash via FreshPlayer (so I get a high enough version number of Flash) and the VMware plugins via NPAPI. Fragile as heck.
Just stick "about:plugins" in the URL to see what plugins you have installed ...
Many thanks. Despite having things like NoScript and ad blockers installed, in "about:plugins" I only see a couple and those are from Cisco (web conferencing stuff).
IMHO muich confusion is caused by the way FF itself lumps stuff together as Add-Ons.
Extensions are in fact going to be dropped too.
https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2015/08/21/the-future-of-developing-firefox-add-ons/
After reading this about them dropping NPAPI after having read about them them dropping XUL extensions, I now think Mozilla don't have any idea what they've got and are just dumping features that aren't in WebKit and making it look more like Chrome.
What's the other thing they've got... privacy. Only they also changed the Sync protocol and haven't bothered to explain how to set up a private server.
No Dan, your link just says they're changing how you build them, not dropping them:
We are implementing a new extension API,
Frankly, if your extension supplier isn't keeping up with current architecture, it's malware prone anyway.
What's that? Why yes, software developers who don't keep up with current architecture IS a pet peeve of mine. Primarily because as a desktop support tech I have to support a critical app in my environment that is created in-house by a bunch of twits who keep insisting that we keep users on old malware prone versions of Java for their IE-required web app. Granted, they have improved in the five years I've been here. Now they're only running one or two versions back whereas when I first started Java was well into the mid 1.6 range and they still insisted on having 1.5.16 installed. I mean, they were so far behind even Sun had removed the installer from their archive.
No Dan, your link just says they're changing how you build them, not dropping them:
It says "We have decided on an approximate timeline for the deprecation of XPCOM- and XUL-based add-ons" which is the last half of 2016.
So developers can either rebuild them with WebExtensions or you leave them as XUL, which means they will be dropped when Firefox stops supporting XUL extensions. There are many extensions that aren't actively maintained but still work because they follow the XUL extension spec. There are many extensions that are maintained to fix small bugs but the developer doesn't have time to rewrite them for the latest API du jour.
XUL extensions and NPAPI support are both strong points for Firefox. Why are they out-of-date architectures? Getting rid of them is a great inconvenience to users.
I imagine they don't update on the day because they have to test if the update breaks anything first. If you have to support browser-based or webstart Java, your job will be so much fun when NPAPI disappears from Firefox.
"Extensions are in fact going to be dropped too."
"No Dan, your link just says they're changing how you build them, not dropping them"
Actually, in many ways they ARE dropping extensions as we know them, and replacing them with what amount to "Chrome-compatible" extensions. Firefox has had an extension system that gives a lot of control to extension developers, and in turn anyone using those extensions. They're getting rid of much of this advanced functionality, so extensions will be quite a bit more limited in what they can do. Many existing extensions simply won't be possible to port to the new system, or they'll need to drop major features in order to work with it. While it may not be the topic of this article, it is likely to be something that's going to upset a lot of people when it happens.
"After reading this about them dropping NPAPI after having read about them them dropping XUL extensions, I now think Mozilla don't have any idea what they've got and are just dumping features that aren't in WebKit and making it look more like Chrome."
I suspect their ultimate plan may be to go the Opera route, eventually discontinuing their browser and replacing it with a low-maintenance Chromium re-skin with a few extensions built-in, that they can profit off of without spending any significant development budget on. These are the same kinds of things Opera was doing before that happened, and why the "Opera" desktop browser of today is just a generic featureless Chrome-derivative instead of the feature-packed Internet suite it once was. They may very well be making their browser look and behave like Chrome in an attempt to ease the transition.
EXTENSIONS ARE NOT BEING DROPPED !! Read the blog at the link you posted. Good grief man,stop spreading FALSE rumours. Mozilla is modernizing,and improving the APIs to make them more safe,and compatible with all other,major browsers,ie. Chrome,Opera,and possibly MS Edge.
Ghostery,Adblock Plus,and other well developed add-ons will have no trouble migrating to the new setup. For other,less experienced developers,there is a ton of help available. Again,read the blog,...slowly,and completely,and if necessary, rinse and repeat (-:
I have read the blog, let me summarise for you. XUL support will be depreciated. XUL extensions must be rewritten using the WebExtension API. WebExtensions aren't as powerful so some XUL extensions can't be rewritten. Those XUL extensions that aren't being actively maintained or those that require too much work to be rewritten than the developer has time for also won't be rewritten. A lot of extensions will become incompatible with no substitute. Firefox has jumped the shark.
Consequently, we have decided to deprecate add-ons that depend on XUL, XPCOM, and XBL. We don’t have a specific timeline for deprecation, but most likely it will take place within 12 to 18 months from now. We are announcing the change now so that developers can prepare and offer feedback. Add-ons that are built using the new WebExtension API will continue to work. We will also continue supporting SDK add-ons as long as they don’t use require(‘chrome’) or some of the low-level APIs that provide access to XUL elements.
A major challenge we face is that many Firefox add-ons cannot possibly be built using either WebExtensions or the SDK as they currently exist. Over the coming year, we will seek feedback from the development community, and will continue to develop and extend the WebExtension API to support as much of the functionality needed by the most popular Firefox extensions as possible.
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Yes, really. Haven't you heard the stories of critical network control systems (worth six figures or more) being dependent on Flash to operate? This is a serious case of Flash being "too big to ignore". Kill Flash, and you kill your customer base as they're forced to other browsers just to stay operating. In such an environment, you pretty much don't have a choice. So Mozilla are working the other way and trying to nurse Flash to make it as trouble-free as they can. They're also trying to encourage web developers to switch to alternatives (though it's noted some devs are stubborn). Plus as noted in the past, they're trying to make a drop-in alternative to Flash with Project Shumway.
So Mozilla are working the other way and trying to nurse Flash to make it as trouble-free as they can.
So, kind'a like Chrome then. Sandbox the effing thing and be done with it.
Now that readers (as opposed to the article), have clarified they're not getting rid of extensions, I can rest easy, I've only got Flash addon and some openH264 video thingy in there.
>Getting rid of plugins, but keeping Flash and Java? That's the exact opposite of a good idea.
but pragmatically the right thing to do. Kill the API but keep the two which people use during a deprecation period. Some people will still want porn and some will run enterprise apps. Both will still be on death row.
What other plugins are there?
I hope these companies get their act together and develop new ways of viewing CCTV via browsers without the need of special plugins for their existing DVRs.
Just had to deal with that in the last few days. Told the customer to return the unit to the supplier and say the $NZ800+ system was not fit for purpose due to requiring the customer use I don't know what version of IE (we tried from 6 to latest on XP, Vista, 7 and 10) and some ActiveX thingy downloaded from the DVR. Simply would not work, and no other way to view except ActiveX.
Real glad because I had been considering these units as we want to expand our existing system. At least I know not to touch them now. Or trust that supplier.
FireFox is not getting rid of extensions, just the binary plugins which software companies might install on FireFox like video codecs, SilverLight, etc. Think of them like the ActiveX controls in Internet Explorer that everyone has always hated.
Personally, I think they should dump Flash as well since they set the date at Dec 2016. Apple never supported Flash on their iPhones and iPads and we survived that perfectly well. No excuse for web sites not to convert to html5 in the next 15 months if they care.
"FireFox is not getting rid of extensions, just the binary plugins which software companies might install on FireFox like video codecs, SilverLight, etc. Think of them like the ActiveX controls in Internet Explorer that everyone has always hated."
Wrong. They're dropping XUL at the same time.
RE: Wrong. They're dropping XUL at the same time.
Incomplete: They're replacing XUL with a different API, so not dropping extensions. All popular extensions will no doubt be ported: if not then they probably aren't being updated much either and on borrowed time anyway.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Changing the API means old extensions will get dropped, as well those that use XUL that have no counterparts in the new API.
"All popular extensions will no doubt be ported: if not then they probably aren't being updated much either and on borrowed time anyway."
But why fix what isn't broken?
> But Adobe's not getting a free pass: Mozilla will work with the company “to bring improvements to the Flash experience on Firefox, including on stability and performance, features and security architecture.”
Ha ha ha. Hahaha. AHAHAHAHA.
Right. The only way Adobe can bring stability and security to Flash would have been to start over 10 years ago. It's too late - it's an inverted pyramid of cards built on a foundation from before anyone cared about security on the PC. You'd be better off working on your plan for just fully obsoleting it by Christmas 2016.
> Tbh, the only way Adobe could bring stability and security to Flash would have been to sell it to a different company who understood what those words mean
Or if IBM had been able to extract it's head from it's a$$ 15 years ago, we all could have been using HotMedia rather than Flash. After all, HotMedia ran under Java, so we could have been running on a nice, clean, stable base.... Oh, wait.....
"You'd be better off working on your plan for just fully obsoleting it by Christmas 2016."
Tell that to the bean counters when the very expensive and still-being-amortized piece of equipment you need for your everyday work can only be controlled by Flash. No alternatives, no chance of replacing it, and no chance of updates from the provider. You're in the slippery hole and the only thing on hand is a shovel. What do you do?
I don't think they have a clue about the plugins used by business, academic people etc.
Their chrome trendy buddies brainwashed them and this happened.
Before you mention Edge browser, remember iexplore.exe didn't go anywhere with all that backwards compatibility since Microsoft does know the business World very well.
Spot on. I work for a major multinational company which has been promoting Chrome and Firefox use. But recently things have been swinging back to IE because an awful lot of Oracle financial system pages etc. rely on Java, and Java no longer works with Chrome. With Firefox dropping Java support as well, we'll soon be back to IE only.
Don't get me wrong, navigating away from browser plugins is ultimately a good idea. But canning them now isn't going to do anything but cost more market share within business. And let's not forget that the buggiest and most crash-prone plugin out there (Flash) will be allowed a reprieve from this!
Dell DRAC requires the IcedTeaWeb plugin in order to launch the remote console. We use this extensively here at work, along with VMWare plugins.
I think that Red Hat will have to either port Firefox, or start supporting another browser as we have 600+ Linux desktops for Scientists and support staff.
@MacGuyver PS: "Bring back my ability to have the tabs below the location bar, jerks."
You mean natively rather than via CTR?
I moved over to SeaMonkey some time ago, The interface is stable and sensible and uBlock Origin, Compact Menu 2 and Ghostery work so that covers my needs for extensions. Well Ghostery works most of the time until an Australis/other Firefox invoked change causes problems for the SeaMonkey and Ghostery teams.
Fortunately CTR does the job on IceWeasel and TenFourFox as well. So I can have a sensible browser user interface on my ARM boards and PPC macs too.
It was inevitable once MS released 'edge' without ActiveX support.
FF needed a equivilant of ActiveX to compete with IE. Now that MS has given notice that ActiveX in the browser is depreciated, FF feels able to do the same.
I'm a desktop PC man myself, part of the original Digital Generation. So I feel the gradual loss of support and functionality. But it's balanced by.tablets and always-connected devices, using a much looser connection than COM. It's a new world.
Internet Explorer with all that backwards compatibility didn't go anywhere so if you need ActiveX for that internal site etc, you are covered.
Mozilla could think about real business and some academics and say ESR will keep on supporting plugins with easier opt in approach.
This is how businesses become dependent on MS etc. Couple of nerds decide what has become unfashionable and rm -rf working code, say bye to that internal page.
I won't name any names but when they copied MS "Startup performance dialogue" they disabled my paid Kaspersky extension. When I sent feedback, someone replied "But it doesn't really help" etc.
Disabling a security extension because it takes a little more time to Startup.
So are Mozilla going to have to back pedal on PPAPI (Pepper Flash) ?
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729481
Better hurry up and change that Mozilla from won't fix to PDQ as I'm getting to quite like Chromium and up to date flash support on Linux.
This isn't so much a WON'T FIX as CAN'T FIX. Google has essentially inked a deal with Adobe to personally maintain Flash exclusively for Blink-based browsers like Chrome. The code is proprietary and mercurial and tied specifically to Blink; meaning there's no real way for Firefox to cope. Even if it claims it's using Pepper, odds are it's using undocumented features, rendering a translation unlikely.
So basically, barring a success on Shumway, Google has stolen the march on Mozilla regarding Flash on Linux, and there's nothing right now that Mozilla can do about it.
Lost patience with FF ages ago.
I just like Palemoon better.
Not even for any good reason, though I think I did have some at the time.
EDIT
Just fired up FF. There are loads of plugins I'd never knowingly use. (Silverlight anyone).But some I'd miss.
VLC, PDF-Xchange viewer, Google Earth.
Which are the only ones I also have on Pale Moon btw.
For me, the Australis mess was the final straw that pushed me to use Palemoon exclusively. Fortunately the Palemoon developers haven't gone insane and have stated that they'll continue to support NPAPI no matter what Firefox does.
While it would be nice if everyone switched to HTML5 video, there are going to be sites with <embed src="foo.avi"> for many years to come. On Linux the MPlayer plugin (or VLC) is the only reasonable way of handling these pages, making a browser in which it doesn't work a complete non-starter.
Like that's going to fly. They don't have a fucking clue what people use their browser for, and I'm sick of Firefox hanging the entire browser when Flash gets a tiny bit upset. Generally I've thought it's an improvement to Chrome, but maybe I should now move.
The firefox integrated PDF viewer is next to useless for all bar the most simply structured PDFs, so if you want to view a PDF in browser (instead of download and open with PDF viewer of choice) then a PDF plugin will be required... Or are Mozilla actually going to fix their own PDF viewer before plugins are killed?
If they are going to do it, why wait so long?
It would be better to drop plugin support entirely sooner, but release an ESR that maintains it, and is maintained twice as long as usual.
If adobe want flash to continue in the mainstream, they can make an extension that does the same job.
The derivative of Firefox I'm using now has had no plugin support for many versions.
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So, Mozilla are planning to drop plug-in support in over a year's time, but still support a Flash plug-in because Flash “is still a common part of the Web experience for most users”?
I would earnestly hope that by the end of 2016 the bugfest that is Flash will no longer be needed for the vast majority of websites, and the Flash plug-in can safely be dropped.
Nope, because it's also used in business control systems that run on very expensive hardware (that the bean counters will refuse or are unable due to contract to replace) and rely on irreplaceable software (again because it's under contract). In such an environment, it's Flash or Bust.
Without plugins Firefox will become irrelevant, this process started when it was decided that Firefox should look like Chrome. What will make people switch to Firefox now?
A very sad day. I have always had a real affection for Firefox because of that community side to it and the sense that if you wanted to do something there was probably a plugin for that. Also you could pick & choose which features you wanted rather than using another piece of bloatware.
At least we still have the Firefox fork - Pale Moon, but if Firefox stops supporting plugins I wonder if the developers will continue supporting/developing them.
What about cross-browser password manager plug-ins like LastPass and 1Password? If Mozilla drop support surely everyone that uses them will just switch to a different browser.
1. Define and adopt several technologies
2. Give them specific names but never clarify what the difference is between them
3. Develop them for a number of years so that users eventually depend on them
4. Start to develop a new technology that does a similar thing but not quite the same or is inferior in some specific way
5. Announce to users that you will be dropping the older technologies in favour of the new one which will mean that some products produced for one of these older technologies will stop working.
6. Watch the users squirm and moan about which technology runs what and what might be broken once these technologies are dropped.
Of course, we have all been here before. Disinformation, information, conflict, FUD. Vote with your feet rather than complain on a forum - if you feel that Firefox have screwed the pooch, go get something else!
Personally, I'm doing nothing yet because Mozilla are only saying stuff rather than actually doing stuff right now. When they actually start doing stuff, then I'll probably look at what they have done and make my own move.
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