Not really sure it takes Sherlock Holmes.
They were bought by one of the countries that would like ISIS to triumph.
Saudi Arabia ?
US Treasury: How did ISIS get your trucks? Toyota: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The US Treasury's terrorism financing department has launched an enquiry into the fleet of Toyota trucks which feature prominently in ISIS propaganda videos. Counter-terrorism investigators are collaborating with the Japanese automotive manufacturer to figure out how Toyota's Hilux trucks and Land Cruisers have been obtained …
-
-
This post has been deleted by its author
-
-
Friday 9th October 2015 11:04 GMT Voland's right hand
Re: Not really sure it takes Sherlock Holmes.
but but Turkey is the big country who
Turkey, due to its various Eu related aspirations imports (and assembles) Eu spec vehicles.
The Toyotas on the ISIS videos are not the Eu spec. The Eu spec has the extra diesel turbo intercooler input on top of the bonnet.
What you see has not gone through the normal import channels in Turkey. It has gone through somewhere else. The same goes for the "truck" version of the Landcruiser. You cannot buy that normally in Eu (and Turkey) at all. Even if you manage to get your mitts on one it will be diesel with the intercooler input, not with a smooth bonnet.
It is the middle-Eastern spec so it was bought for them by Saudi, Qatar or some other usual suspect. All we need is one captured and to read the VIN. Then it will become clear who supplies them (with evidence).
-
-
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 21:02 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: Not really sure it takes Sherlock Holmes...Occams Razor?
...or alternatively, some of the towns and cities in the area now under ISIS control might just have had the odd vehicle dealership or two not to mention that the locals may have been "persuaded to donate" their privately owned vehicles.
-
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 10:24 GMT Anonymous Coward
The Daily Torygraph alleges, allegedly. . .
quote: The US military has also supplied brand new Toyota vehicles as part of the country's assistance to the Syrian rebel opposition as it fights to oust Bashar al-Assad, the Syrian president.
The treasury department could not be reached for comment on Wednesday, either for details on its interaction with Toyota, or on the question of whether some of [Dae'sh/ISIS/etc] Isil's vehicles may have come from US military efforts.
at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11917994/US-government-asks-Toyota-Why-does-Isil-have-so-many-of-the-companys-vehicles.html
-
Friday 9th October 2015 10:53 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: The Daily Torygraph alleges, allegedly. . .
Which means that regardless how much I dislike our current villain of the day he has a point. Bomb 'em all. There is f*** all difference they are all joined at the him and transferring equipment, money and fighters between themselves.
FSA opposition? Yeah, more like ISIS purchasing.
-
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 16:49 GMT Bleu
Re: Not really sure it takes Sherlock Holmes.
This kind of bullshit propaganda really has no place on the reg.
Since it is here, I will add:
Where did they get their huge supply of armoured Hummers?
Where did they obtain their supplies of US tanks, artillery, and anti-tank weapons?
Most telling of all ...
Why, in so many photos, do so many of them sport standard-issue US Army desert-combat boots? Usually, it is most.
Only exception is photos of their trainees, who do tend to wear sports shoes.
Sure, some of it is from Iraqi deserters, but that does *not* explain the appearance of US-made anti-tank weapons and the near-ubiquity of US-supplied boots.
Also does not explain the frequency of bits and pieces of US desert camouflage, US army trousers, in particular, appear to be very much in fashion, although not on quite the same scale as the US army standard-issue boots.
-
Friday 9th October 2015 13:18 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Not really sure it takes Sherlock Holmes.
"Where did they obtain their supplies of US tanks, artillery, and anti-tank weapons?"
I had assumed that this was looted kit they'd acquired from overrun Iraqi bases - remember the Merkins withdrew from Iraq not long ago, and left the fledgling Iraqi military well supplied with a bunch of hardware to help them look after themselves ... unfortunately the soldiers of the fledgling Iraqi military were dead scared of the ravaging ISIS hordes and ran away from a number of encounters leaving their kit behind(*).
ISIS got their hands on quite a number of Iraqi weapons dumps as they overran positions and bases early on in their offensive. The Merkins sat on their hands and watched it happen, having abandoned their newly "liberated" friends to their fate.
(* Recognising of course that a number did stand and fought bravely, some of whom unfortunately were captured, and were later tortured and beheaded)
-
-
-
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 10:14 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: "I wonder if ISIS have ever tried to claim under the warranty?"
A quick check on the options list suggests that machine guns are non-manufacturer-approved accessories that probably invalidate the warranty.
I think the warranty on its paintwork is also void when we're talking about getting hit by lead slugs rather than water and dust. That must play havoc with insurance premiums :)
-
-
-
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 00:03 GMT Jan 0
Re: Direct Sales
When you go to poor countries, you start realising that car manufacturers must have very flexible price lists. When I was in Cambodia 10 years ago, I did wonder how taxi drivers, in a near bankrupt country , managed to buy Toyota Camrys. SImilarly how do taxi drivers in poor African countries buy Mercedes? Aside from those single cyclider Chinese three wheelers, are there any cheap cars in poor countries?
-
Friday 9th October 2015 15:20 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Direct Sales
In Japan there are very expensive MOT type tests for vehicles more than a handful of years old which 'encourages' people to buy a new vehicle more often than would probably otherwise be the case. We all know the reliability and longevity of today's Japanese cars and there is a HUGE export market to the rest of the world in these second hand cars which are usually fairly low mileage meaning that Toyotas are perhaps the most popular car in a lot of African countries. I know a guy who buys Toyotas from Japan and has them shipped direct to Pakistan for sale there, because they're much sought after.
-
-
-
Friday 9th October 2015 14:22 GMT Phil W
Re: Maybe, just maybe
I think it's possibly more a case of
"would be such a shame if you were still in it with your feet nailed to the floor when someone blows it up, instead of outside handing over the keys"
I don't think their tactics include "give us what we want and we'll leave you alone", but they might include "give us what we want and maybe we won't be quite as nasty to you".
-
-
This post has been deleted by its author
-
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 08:46 GMT James Micallef
Re: Hmmm
Big problem is that middle east and gulf have lots of oil, so they have lots of cash to splash on weapons. Inevitably these trickle down into conflict zones (not to mention the weaponry that US deliberately introduced to the region). If NATO stops selling them weapons, they will buy from Russia and China. Even if no legitimate supplier would sell them any weapons, there are enough dodgy middlemen to supply them. they got the money, they will get weapons. And trucks etc.
The only way to solve the bloody middle east massacres is a massive switch to nuclear power and renewables (and hopefully eventually fission), then they won't have any money to buy weapons*. Then they can carry on fighting with sticks and stones while the rest of the world can ignore them.
*As far as I know there is no major weapons production in middle east / gulf, except maybe Iran?
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 10:21 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Hmmm
Big problem is that middle east and gulf have lots of oil, so they have lots of cash to splash on weapons.
There's certainly no shortage of dodgy money, but the reality on the ground is that weaponry is cheap. IS may have captured a lot of US kit (in addiiton to stuff the Yanks supplied to groups that then joined IS), but the bulk of their strength is beaten up pickups, cheap-as-chips AK47s, and suicide bombers.
If the market for oil vanished overnight, and the sovereign wealth funds of oil exporters mysteriously shrivelled, the middle east would still be an uncivilised, smelly, seething, fighting mass.
-
-
-
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 14:59 GMT Dan Wilkie
Stones and Glass Houses
I'm assuming the Iraqi government and US Treasury department are drawing attention to the new Toyotas to divert attention from the brand new US vehicles they're rolling around in courtesy of the Iraqi Military?
Perhaps the Toyotas are from the same source?
Question - do they have more Landcruisers than Humvees?
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 15:35 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Stones and Glass Houses
do they have more Landcruisers than Humvees?
According to press reports, IS captured something around 2,300 Humvees when the Iraqi army ran away, so I'm guessing that the answer to your question is no.
You've got to hand it to the US military industrial complex, they came upon a winning business model when they armed, bankrolled and trained the Taliban back in the 1980s. For these people, beardy terrorists (BTs) are the gift that keeps on giving:
1) you can make the arms to be sent to them directly when you thought BTs were on your side,
2) you can make the arms to be used in invading the BT's country when you decide to unseat a government that you don't like,
3) you can make the arms to be given to weak "allies" who then hand them over to the BTs,
4) you can make the arms to then be used destroying all the stuff the BT's have acquired,
5) you can make the arms to join in a ten-way civil war, then after that has been "won" and a puppet government installed...
6) you can (again) make the arms to give to the puppet government's cowardly military,
7 <GOTO STEP 4>
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 16:01 GMT cirby
Re: Stones and Glass Houses
"You've got to hand it to the US military industrial complex, they came upon a winning business model when they armed, bankrolled and trained the Taliban back in the 1980s."
I know that's a common "hate the US" meme, but it's not true.
The US did fund people in Afghanistan - but they funded a small number of folks who HATED the Taliban. Those guys ended up losing out in the power struggle after the Russians left (their main leader was killed by an Al Qaeda bomb the day before 9/11).
Taliban funding came from Pakistan and the rest of the Islamic countries, not the US. Sorry to burst your bubble. People like bin Laden said nice things for a couple of years (because we were funding some other small groups fighting the atheist Russians), but that was pretty much a side show in every sense, and stopped completely once the Soviets pulled out.
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 16:10 GMT ian 22
Re: Stones and Glass Houses @cirby
The model outlined by the OP is just a refinement of the one developed by Hiram Maxim, inventor of a particularly deadly machine gun prior to WWI. He was having trouble selling it to the US Army, when a friend suggested he sell it to the Europeans, as they all hated one another. Voila! Maxim licensed his gun to all sides in WWI to his extreme profit.
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 16:58 GMT Peter Simpson 1
Re: Stones and Glass Houses @cirby
Maxim licensed his gun to all sides in WWI to his extreme profit.
Charming.
And his son, with all that money, founded the American Radio Relay League, our national ham radio organization. Can't say much bad about them, but the founder...don't much care for how he got his money.
-
Saturday 10th October 2015 18:20 GMT Bleu
Re: Stones and Glass Houses @cirby
You are talking out of your arse.
Major sales of the Maxim gun and its design are from the later part of the 19th century, not from just before WWI.
Sure, you are probably correct that both sides had weapons based on it (Vickers, for one), but there would have been no massive profits for Maxim at the time, modern-style patent lunacy was about 70 years away at the *end* of that war, although I would argue convincingly that it did not end, and there is a contintuum from what westerners like to call WWI to WWII, i.e., they were just different phases of the same war, with some massive political shifts in some places, but no period of peace.
However, I will not go into more detail on that, because I think it unsuitable for the Reg.
-
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 20:57 GMT John Deeb
Re: Stones and Glass Houses
"but they funded a small number of folks who HATED the Taliban"
Like those child-raping warlords? Perhaps the story would have been less insane if actually the Taliban would have been supported at the time and not the rag tag coalition of cronies which came in its place. the reason Taliban came to power was the corruption and backwards morality of those in power. There always worse than medieval morality.
NYT 2015-09-15 U.S. Soldiers Told to Ignore Sexual Abuse of Boys by Afghan Allies
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html?_r=0
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 04:12 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Stones and Glass Houses
Quite so. Although quite honestly who funded who is kind of moot now since everyone east of the Greenwich meridian seems to hate us here in the US :)
The mujahideen started to combat the left-wing takeover of power in Afghanistan in the late 70s. They were extensively backed by their friendly neighbors in Pakistan who didn't like the idea of a semi-communist government in their back yard. The Soviets got involved, ostensibly to help their leftist allies but probably also because they needed a client state in that part of the world for geo-strategic reasons. Once the Soviets were in, Presidents Carter and Reagan felt they had no choice but to arm the mujahideen (along the logic of 'anyone fighting the Russians must be our friend'). Pakistan was only too happy to act as an intermediary.
Once the Russians were exhausted and withdrew a power struggle ensued. It's difficult to say who was fighting whom because alliances shifted rapidly (e.g. the Pashtun Taliban might fight with other northwestern mujahideen one week but revert to a tribal alliance the next) but it is certainly true to say that the Taliban fought certain elements of the mujahideen and allied with others. The Pakistani security services ultimately threw their lot in with the Taliban and directed money and materiel to them, enabling them to take control of the country by the mid-1990s.
Personally I doubt we will see an end to the madness until the Sunni-Shia schism is settled, and that will never happen in my lifetime. Every middle-eastern geo-political power play in recent memory boils down to Sunni Saudi Arabia and its allies vs Shia Iran and its. Western powers are collateral damage.
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 23:21 GMT David Roberts
Re: Stones and Glass Houses
"everyone east of the Greenwich meridian seems to hate us here in the US :)"
It is possible that some people in Suffolk and Norfolk still have good memories of US forces from the local air bases so your judgement may be unduly harsh.
Then again, over paid, over sexed and over here........
-
-
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 16:27 GMT Fatman
Re: Stones and Glass Houses
<quote>You've got to hand it to the US military industrial complex, they came upon a winning business model when they armed, bankrolled and
trained the Taliban back in the 1980sdefeated the Axis back in the 1940s. </quote>FTFY!!!
I recall President Eisenhower making a speech about the influence of the Military-Industrial Complex Allow me to quote part of that speech: (the whole speech can be found here: http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html )
<quote>
Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.
Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.
The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded.
</quote> (BTW, emphasis mine)
Those words were true when they were first uttered on January 17, 1961, and are still are true today. In fact, one could make the case that what Eisenhower had foreseen as a possibility has actually occurred. Since the end of WWII, the USofA has been involved in one crisis or war after another. One must wonder who is doing the driving?
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 22:03 GMT P. Lee
Re: Stones and Glass Houses
>>do they have more Landcruisers than Humvees?
>IS captured something around 2,300 Humvees when the Iraqi army ran away, so I'm guessing that the answer to your question is no.
But that was years ago.
TopGear didn't take humvees to the North Pole and there's a good reason for them noting that the landcruiser is the backbone of every warlord's transport policy. Yeah, that's right, the taliban don't have much of a domestic car industry to protect...
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 10:44 GMT Dr Dan Holdsworth
Re: Stones and Glass Houses
The basic problem for ISIL and indeed any force operating in desert conditions is vehicle maintenance. Nick a job lot of Humvees, and sooner or later a component breaks for which the local mechanics cannot bodge together a replacement, at which point the car is junk.
A similar thing is true of armour in the Third World; tanks take a lot of maintaining, and when they break down, you need the correct kit and trained people to do something about it. Quite often a pack change is the best option; take out the entire engine pack and replace with a reconditioned one, then repair the old one back at your workshops. ISIL do not strike me as a group capable of doing very much of this since workshops need skilled mechanics and a good parts supply chain, which in turn needs coordination and a reputation for being good payers.
The best fall-back is what they are doing: use vehicles already common locally, like Toyota trucks, and simply do not bother with armour or any more than light artillery. A Hilux with a heavy machine gun on the back makes a very effective support vehicle, and replacing the truck, the gun or indeed the operators isn't difficult simply because all three are readily available locally.
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 12:57 GMT Roland6
Re: Stones and Glass Houses
The best fall-back is what they are doing: use vehicles already common locally,
Fall-back? Back in the cold war days the UK government was deciding to purchase a new set of tanks at a vast price and I remember reading a well reasoned article explaining both the strategic and operational logic of using a vehicle already common locally and used the Fiat Panda (a vehicle that was quite common in Europe at the time) to illustrate his point! Interestingly, whilst the UK government ignored the advance and did purchase some heavy armour, the military did invest in lightweight commodity vehicles for special forces...
-
-
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 11:56 GMT Richie 1
Re: Stones and Glass Houses
> Question - do they have more Landcruisers than Humvees?
Toyota Land Cruisers are *the* car of choice for locals here in Qatar, and one of the most common cars you'll see on the road. Hiluxes are also pretty popular for construction workers. (Company owned of course; the workers can't afford cars.) This is true of the rest of the gulf too, the bits that I've been too anyway. Can't speak for Iraq, since I've not visited for obvious reasons.
In fact, as a rule, Arabs love anything Japanese, presumably because it's considered technologically advanced, but doesn't have the colonial baggage of things that come from Europe*, or the political baggage of things that come from the US.
*German stuff is the exception; that's also considered halal.
-
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 15:01 GMT Destroy All Monsters
Err...geeee... I dunno??? Get detective Steakout on the case!
"This is a question we’ve been asking our neighbors," Faily said to ABC. "How could these brand new trucks ... these four-wheel drives, hundreds of them – where are they coming from?"
June 16, 2015: Where Does ISIS Get Those Wonderful Toys? From Uncle Sam, the Bruce Wayne of Jihad, and his Cronies
In 2012, The Wall Street Journal reported that: “Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia have delivered arms and funds to rebel groups in Syria in a covert alliance since this spring.”
These shipments included automatic rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, ammunition, anti-tank weapons, and roadside bombs.
This deadly delivery service continues to this day. Turkey’s chief role has been to transmit the weapons through its border with Syria. Turkey is a member of the US-power-projection vehicle known as NATO, and it hosts US bases and nuclear weapons.
The chief role of the Saudis and Qataris has been to bankroll the weapons shipments. Both Gulf States are dependent on American arms deliveries worth tens of billions of dollars every year. These deliveries were ramped up to this level in recent years with the express purpose of isolating, countering, and “deterring” Iran: the purported ringleader of the burgeoning “Shia expansion” that the Saudis hate lividly and that has been an enemy target for US foreign policy since 2007. Overthrowing Iran’s ally Assad is seen by both the US and the Gulf States as part of that project.
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 15:15 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Err...geeee... I dunno??? Get detective Steakout on the case!
Don't forget that Texas plumber's pickup, that found its way to Syria, and had a gun mounted on the back, whilst still carrying the original paintwork. Which begs the question of how the Yanks are allowing secondhand vehicles off of their own roads to end up with the beardos.
Mind you far better to point the finger at Toyota than fess up to their own incompetence.
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 16:11 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Err...geeee... I dunno??? Get detective Steakout on the case!
Obviously, stolen vehicles are difficult to track. Once they put them in a shipping container and send them overseas tracking is impossible.
Have YOU got a solution for stopping the thefts of vehicles across the world?
I didn't think so.
-
-
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 23:42 GMT YetAnotherLocksmith
Re: Err...geeee... I dunno??? Get detective Steakout on the case!
Surely since they X-ray everything they could tell if it was a truck and not cutlery?
Also, shipping *anything at all* to Iran or Syria or several other places from the USA shouldn't be easy - all those laws about helping the terrorists they brought in, & international sanctions!
-
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 10:24 GMT Wilseus
Re: Err...geeee... I dunno??? Get detective Steakout on the case!
"The VIN is on the block, on the dash and drivers door. Also, the title paperwork, stolen along with the vehicle, is probably still in the glove box."
Yes, but would you like to be the person to go into ISIS territory and collect that information? They seem to take a dim view of spies, if caught they tend to end up with their heads chopped off, and they are the lucky ones.
-
-
-
-
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 15:01 GMT Anonymous Coward
Here's a more pertinent question...
To whom are ISIS selling their oil, the profits of which go to purchase new Toyotas?
Of course, the US will never dare to ask this inconvenient question since fingers are likely to be pointed in the direction of some of their so-called allies in the region.
IMO, this story is really about taking down another foreign car manufacturer that continues to represent a significant threat to the hapless American car industry.
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 18:06 GMT Breen Whitman
Re: Here's a more pertinent question...
Indeed. And the Japanese auto makers are in the gun at the moment as part of the TPP foriegn trade agreement of which Japan and US are part.
US car manufacturers will be ramping up the lobbying to stop this being signed by congress.
Read more here: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/03/us-trade-tpp-autos-exclusive-idUSKCN0RW2JV20151003
-
-
-
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 09:10 GMT James Micallef
Re: They probably preferred it they
"ISIS have some standards about the quality of the vehicles they like to use"
Top Gear's indestructible Toyota episode was certainly instructive in this regard, it's no wonder that Toyota HiLux is the pickup of choice for militias. Incidentally, as I recall from a 'jeep' Safari in Dubai, the 4WD of choice is the Toyota Landcruiser.
I wonder what would happen to a Chevy or Ford pickup if Top Gear tried the same treatment on them. Probably wouldn't last 5 minutes.
-
-
-
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 10:51 GMT DropBear
Doesn't even need to be connected to that; in that region Eastern cars are practically universally ubiquitos - nobody drives anything western unless as a deliberate choice and/or as a status symbol - and Toyota is one of the most common cars in use. What else would they expect to see the beardy guys drive FFS?!?
-
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 17:12 GMT stringyfloppy
ISIS hasn't yet decided which Toyota slogan they're taking to heart. Their choices are:
"You asked for it! You got it!"
"Oh, what a feeling!"
"Who could ask for anything more?"
"I love what you do for me, Toyota!" (current front-runner)
"Everyday"
"Get the feeling!"
"Moving Forward"
"Let's Go Places"
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 18:00 GMT chivo243
These vehicles
Have already been declared lost or damaged. I'm sure some insurance company has the information to enlighten us. Check how many containers full of vehicles have been reported fallen off the 'big boat' from the asian rim, I'm quite certain you will find these vehicles in servISIS
upgrading my tinfoil hat as I speak...
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 18:24 GMT Grikath
Is this a "Military Intelligence" question?
A one minute Google excercise tells you that the biggest listed international importer of asian cars in Syria is in....Aleppo..
And of course the nice revolutionaries of [nomination x] who have been back-and-forthing around there would pass up a parking lot full of handy, locally bog-standard, easily combat-convertible pick-ups... Them being Nice Guys and all....
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 20:05 GMT Charles Manning
USA.gov takes another swing at foregin vehicle maker
Even with all the bail outs, the USA vehicle manufacturers can't survive because they make shit cars nobody wants.
So next step is to get USA.gov heavies to try beat up on the competition.
Toyota gets thumped with the "unintended acceleration" case - no actual proof of a problem: no fully verified cases of failure nor any evidence of software failure. Result: $1.2 billion fine.
GM, meanwhile has the ignition key case. 124 deaths attributed + a decade-long cover up. Result: $900bn fine
Now Toyota are getting roughed up because everyone buys their trucks and everyone just also includes ISIS.
And still nobody wants to buy American made cars...
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 08:55 GMT LucreLout
Re: USA.gov takes another swing at foregin vehicle maker
@Charles Manning
Even with all the bail outs, the USA vehicle manufacturers can't survive because they make shit cars nobody wants. Said Charles Manning, speaking for himself.... I'd just love a Ford F250.
Ok, so I don't need the large back seat because I haven't had sex since cousin Tammy died; And I don't need the extra range fuel tank because I've never left Alabama, but come on guys - my penis substitute gun rack in the 250 is large enough to make up for all of my inadeqecies. The flat bed can hold all my half brothers and some cases of watery larger while we go night hunting defenceless animals with our 10,000 sun roof mounted rack - the only rack we get our hands on now Tammy has gone.
In all seriousness, American cars are utterly brilliant, in America. I'm not in America, and their cars are woeful here - vastly different road networks. I've never understood why people buy them over here.
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 09:48 GMT MassiveBob
Re: USA.gov takes another swing at foregin vehicle maker
It looks like the US Government are sending Toyotas to Syria themselves.
The Pentagon will give the rebels Toyota Hi-Lux pickups outfitted with machine guns, along with radios and GPS devices to help US fighter pilots target the Islamic militants, The Wall Street Journal reported.
http://nypost.com/2015/02/18/us-to-arm-syrian-rebels-with-high-tech-gear-for-airstrikes/
And Toyotas being used as vehicles in confilts are nothing new.
The Toyota War is the name commonly given to the last phase of the Chadian–Libyan conflict, which took place in 1987 in Northern Chad and on the Libyan–Chadian border. It takes its name from the Toyota pickup trucks used as technicals to provide mobility for the Chadian troops as they fought against the Libyans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_War
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 22:01 GMT Vic
Re: USA.gov takes another swing at foregin vehicle maker
I've never understood why people buy them over here.
Some of them look rather pretty...
I've always promised myself that one day, I will own a TransAm. I *know* it's a pile of shite, but I still want one.
It will not be my only vehicle. I am fully aware that it will be the single least reliable vehicle I've ever owned. And I used to have a Lotus...
Vic.
-
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 10:37 GMT Dr_N
Re: USA.gov takes another swing at foregin vehicle maker
"Even with all the bail outs, the USA vehicle manufacturers can't survive because they make shit cars nobody wants."
Isn't the Ford F150 the biggest selling "car" in the US by a country mile?
2014 Figures:
1 Ford F-150 526,769
2 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 404,251
3 Toyota Camry 389,091
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 21:09 GMT Henry Wertz 1
Dealership
It's certainly possible the Taliban just ripped these trucks off, as they too over an area they sprung all the trucks from the dealerships.
But, it sounds like they are not hurting for money -- besides whatever backers they have, they also have income from selling off those artifacts that they aren't simply destroying, and by taxing exports of drugs (i.e. opium).
My guess.. I don't think the Taliban marched into a Toyota dealership in full dress uniform and said "Hey you, get me 100 trucks". The dealer would wonder "WTF", and even if they didn't have a problem selling to the Taliban, they'd have to order more trucks through Toyota and the question of who they are going to would come up then. Rather, I assume people may have come in in plain clothes and bought a few at a time. I mean, if someone popped into a dealership here, said "Hey I want to buy a truck" and slapped down a briefcase of cash, I don't think there'd be a lot of questions asked, they want to complete the sale!
cirby, pretty sure these are two different incidents.. the US supported Taliban opponents in the 1990s. They supported the Taliban themselves in the 1980s. I've never taken this as a "hate the US' meme, but rather a "be careful before you poke around overseas" meme.
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 22:13 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Dealership
I've never taken this as a "hate the US' meme, but rather a "be careful before you poke around overseas" meme.
One of the things I did before and while in area was keep abreast of the local news and keep refreshed on the histories. Especially the histories! The whole area is known for sharp dealing in mercantile affairs for, oh, about the last several thousand years. So a couple of thousand trucks being diverted and sold to "the wrong person" is absolutely no surprise just as me getting killed by a US weapon wouldn't have been surprising either.
-
-
Wednesday 7th October 2015 21:30 GMT The_Idiot
"investigators are collaborating with the Japanese automotive manufacturer to figure out how Toyota's Hilux trucks and Land Cruisers have been obtained by ISIS."
People with money paid for them. It's the American way. And the British way. And the (insert country here) way.
It's like (and I expect to be down voted for it) the police trying to look hurt and wounded and asking how the heck the bank robbers got a car to get away in (not _all_ of them are stolen, I'm sure).
Somebody with money paid for it.
Car Salesman: Er, so just to keep everything clear, you're not buying this car to rob banks with are you?
Man (or woman): Oh no. Definitely not. That's my friend outside's job...
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 00:10 GMT Scubaman66
US is just p****d that ISIS would rather acquire/buy Toyotas than Ford or GM.
They just want something which is reliable, easy to fix, economical and can withstand the terrain.
30 years ago ISIS would be have been using fleets of Peugeot 504's in various specs (probably still do for stuff which is too arduous for Landcruisers or Hilux's)
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 08:03 GMT Anonymous Coward
Buying Toyota Trucks?
Does anyone really believe that the Taliban paid for those trucks? Oh, sure the majority of them we have seen were brand new white Toyotas, but there were also some large Ford F-250's and even bigger Chevrolet pickups in those convoys. I don't think that they have actually purchased their vehicles. They treat the automobile the same as they would camels or horse. They steal them.
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 10:20 GMT Eclectic Man
Remote Car-jacking, perhaps
Maybe it is a cunning plan to remotely hijack ISIS vehicles and make them crash into each other? (I'm sure there was an article on that sort of thing around here somewhere recently.)
But more seriously, ISIS is making lots of money selling antiquities looted from ancient sites before they ceremoniously destroy them. Maybe the people buying the statues, capitals etc. pay in Toyota Land Cruisers as well as dollar bills. If one could be captured, the trail of ownership could possibly be determined from various identification numbers, which miught be very interesting.
-
-
Monday 19th October 2015 13:06 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: More to the point ....
I am going to narrow it down to "ISIS controller areas":
Why is there still any internet access and mobile phone coverage in Syria
Courtesy of a friendly Arab State which we are supposedly allied with in war on terror. If that fails, courtesy of an army we trained which conveniently "retreated" so they can recover the "airdrop"
Why is there any refined petroleum
Courtesy of a friendly Arab State which we are supposedly allied with in war on terror. If that fails, courtesy of an army we trained which conveniently "retreated" so they can recover the "airdrop"
And even ... why is there any food
Courtesy of a friendly Arab State which we are supposedly allied with in war on terror. If that fails, courtesy of an army we trained which conveniently "retreated" so they can recover the "airdrop"
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 10:34 GMT Anonymous Coward
I'm calling this whole thing sh1t. Time for a new way. This is total bollox that's only meant to me in fear. F$ck them. I don't buy it. I want out. Time for a new paradigm. It's all very middle class of us to sit here and titter at the fusked up job that we know "our leaders" are doing. We know they are not "working for us", but to enslave us in fear. Yet, we have a wee laugh here and it's all good. Like we're not intelligent enough to run it another way? Pah, well, speak for yourself. I need a new paradigm, this one is rotten.
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 13:31 GMT Anonymous Coward
Funny of the day
ROFL, The Americans are asking where IS gets it's Eequipment, money and support from? HAHAHAHAHA pot hahaha kettle hahaha. Next they will be demanding an investigation into where the leaders where trained, or where they got their humvees from.....HAHAHAHA,
Of course those who having been following the problems will fall for the headline and demand yet more protectionist trade practices to save the American Auto Industry, or at least the SUV and Pickup truck divisions.
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 13:41 GMT Anonymous Coward
They did raid a bank in Mosul
I remember right at the beginning just before ISIL took over Mosul the Iraqi government had put in many millions of dollars of cash into Mosul Bank. ISIL came over the next day and took all the money from that bank. The Iraqi army also left all their weapons, tanks and aircraft for ISIL to take.
So, that is one way of how they got so much money. Toyota vehicles are very popular in Iraq. They have confiscated most of the vehicles from the ordinary people as well. So for the US treasury to blame Toyota on giving ISIL their vehicles is a complete joke.
It is their way of getting at the non US companies. They were given VW on a plate and are now attacking Toyota. This is a non issue as far as Toyota are concerned. The US want to try and make sure that Toyota don't make money in the Middle East.
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 13:56 GMT havancourt
Ever been to the area folks?
This is not really all that surprising --- but silly. On the few trips I have taken to the Middle East several years back, the area seemed of full of small Toyota trucks. Before one goes out to check on something, it might make some sense to actually analyze information. Good Grief.
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 14:16 GMT russell 6
First from Mosul but there are lots of willing sellers
When daesh (ISIS) overran Mosul in Iraq and the Iraqi army ran away they basically helped themselves to everything, there would have been a fair few Toyotas among the extremely substantial loot. As for new trucks, there are lots of willing sellers as there are buyers for all the ancient relics they are selling on the black market from cities such as Palmyra. Estimates are that daesh has enough cash on hand to fund things for the next few years without breaking sweat
-
Thursday 8th October 2015 20:03 GMT Anonymous Coward
You have to consider the history of the area...
1) Long traditions of cross-border smuggling
2) Large areas held or surrounded by comparatively small numbers of troops
3) Authority figures traditionally vulnerable to payments to look the other way
4) Buying through agents/individuals then transferring to ISIS
Let's face it, if I wanted to walk into a Turkish Toyota dealership and pay cash for a new car, I could probably get that car across the border into Syria. Once I am in Syria...
(Yes, I'll take the Toyota Tundra with the optional obvious-grasping tire package)
-
Tuesday 13th October 2015 08:21 GMT Yudhisthira
What a Feeling Toyota!!!!!!!
Maybe they should asked E-BAY they were on a Bit . End of the year tax hundreds of Toyota , Drive away no more to pay!!!!!!!!! easy finance!!, pensioners welcome!! .See your nearest Toyota car dealer .Hurry many left but not for long!!!
Toyota What a Felling!!!!!!
Biting the hand that feeds IT
