FAIL: Windows 10 bulk patch produces INFINITE CRASH LOOP Microsoft’s first update to Windows 10 is bricking some users’ PCs. The cumulative update is rebooting after getting part way through the installation process on x64-based systems without completing set up. The update is KB3081424. The problem has been reported, here, on Microsoft's official forums. In the case of one user, …
At the very least, some of them, can be deferred, you just dont get the choice of which!! I wonder if we switch deferring on , then switch it off after a week or so if it will return to updating immediately... it could at least provide a little safety barrier.
And why oh why can't the "Long Term Servicing Branch" be proposed to Joe Public ?
Not a good start for W10.
Has anyone any idea of the relative numbers of different unique Windows/Android/Mac machines out there. My gut feeling is between 1,000 and 1,000,000 for MS over the others. So in one way MS has done well to only bork a few PCs. On the other hand they have some of the best engineering talent in the world, but no PHB listened to "No, don't do it!"?
Nope its to be avoided.
I said windows 10 would be a train crash... How did I know? 20+ years experience of supporting Microsoft's broken products.. And this shit was so rushed. Can't tell kids anything these days, they know it all.
Windows 7 is/was the pinnacle of Microsoft OS after SP1. Prior to that it was Horace goes skiing.
Games are the only reason I run Windows 7.... I am such a sad git, still gaming since '83. wish I had a life :-)
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A testing pool you say?! YOu mean all those Alpha Insider *cough* pre 29.07.2015 Beta Testers?! *cough* They got bumped up the chain a bit, and are running the Alpha builds now....Everyone else on "Home", or "Professional" IS THE BETA TESTER NOW!
The only prayer you now have on Windows 10 is to have cam off a Windows 7 Ultimate install.. i.e. Your now on 10 Pro. Where you should have the option of blocking this detritus for the minimal time of ~four months, while the plebe classes get nailed to the trees.
>That is why most of the commercial systems, Apple and even DEC, due to the hardware and software coming from the same vendor, install with less hassle.
Hmmm, I just took a look at my wife's mac this morning - some problem with SMB-based favourites in the finder sidebar disappearing if a "locked" item is selected first on power-on/after sleep. If google is anything to go by, that gem appears to go all the way back to snow leopard. The vendor can't be bothered to fix it.
In the W10 case, I'm not buying the "multiple platforms" thing. During the update process, it just needs to read and write files, probably on a single disk. If the OS can't do that, its really time to look elsewhere. Really, for the update process, even after a reboot, you want a minimal system load, so you don't have other design decisions (such as graphics in the kernel) impacting your procedure. To wit, run level 3.
@Aimee And there lies the problem, multiple hardware platforms.
That is why most of the commercial systems, Apple and even DEC, due to the hardware and software coming from the same vendor, install with less hassle.
Yeah. The mainly problem-free installation and patch regime of Linux distros is because they restrict themselves to a single hardware vendor, too.
This update worked fine for me. Then again, I somehow have avoided all problems that other updates have had over the years... and yeah, I am one of those who updates when they are available.
Yes, it's amazing just much work they put into luring people into a false sense of security.
Just of out interest, have you already moved to patching without making a backup first?
Yeah, thought so. You'll learn. Soon..
I keep all my essential data on external hard drives. Bit of a hold over from when I was carting films/music from place to place and it easier/safer/more reliable than carting the whole tower over. So even now, I keep as much as I can on *not* the system disc.
But I am talking from 2 laptops (one is 2-3 years old, the other is coming up to its 6th anniversary and just about runs windows 10 (but better than windows 7 on it)), a linx tablet, and my main desktop (along with another laptop in the house that isn't mine).
But as others have said, this happened to Windows 7 just last year (which I somehow avoided getting caught in... *shrugs* I was on Windows 8 then, so I guess that is how I missed it)
But yeah... Somehow I have this knack of avoiding a lot of the issues that other people seem to stumble into every 10 seconds or so... I have no idea how, maybe my name should be Lucky.
But then I would get dragged behind the toilets and shot.
... tell me again why I want to think for one millionth of one thousandth of one billionth of a femto second about actually _installing_ this?
And no - I don;t really want anyone to try to convince me. Where convincing is concerned in this issue, my Un has a lead that isn't going to be broken any time soon. And this isn't me knocking Microsoft - but based on what I've seen so far, they can pry my W7 Ultimate out of my cold, dead hands.
And the WILL pry Windows 7 out of cold, clammy, warm hands. Just let them install some strange Windows Update KB that talks nebulously about "improving the user experience" and you'll find yourself staring at an installation screen with the reassuring words: DO NOT TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER.
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... tell me again why I want to think for one millionth of one thousandth of one billionth of a femto second about actually _installing_ this?
If you are like many on here you only use windows because you are paid too part of the day and therefore don't really get to decide when.
I (among many others) am getting regular crash reports from GWXUX, the Windows 10 update nag - and I'm still running Windows 7. I could simply uninstall the offending update, but I feel it's a useful reminder of what horror might ensue if I were to succumb to its blandishments.
Hehe - my SO did just that the other day - the first I heard of it was when she asked me if Windows 10 was supposed to take ages to load. "Oh no, you didn't did you?" "The laptop asked me to." "What did I say about it the other day?" "That it was good?" "AAARRGH"
Anonymous because ...
> I (among many others) am getting regular crash reports from GWXUX, the Windows 10 update nag - and I'm still running Windows 7
I can't get security updates on Windows 7 any more. I bailed on Windows 10 at the last moment after the pile of twisted and smoking wreckage came over the horizon. I cancelled it but whatever updates I choose now it comes up saying "downloading windows 10"...
I seen people defending M$ and its 'free' gift. I heard them saying forced updates was a great idea. I hope they are happy with their systems now.
I'm not convinced they ARE actually Windows users. Based on the total lack of logic and facts in certain positive comments I am starting to get more and more the impression that MS is paying a company to place favourable comments as soon as people are critical about their products, regardless of the nature of the article and the discussion. Given the quality of their products, that would not come as a surprise.
I learned NOT to upgrade for at least 1 year after a new release.
I saw this coming months ago. Not the exact date or problem, but still - it was an easy call.
"MICROSOFT - Home of the ubiquitous and ever present bug! "
Excuse me. I have to go laff some more :)
JB
Lawyers eager to make an awful lot of $$$$ when you need them eh?
Despite what their EULA says MS has a responsibility NOT to mess up updates like this.
A few thousand/million lawsuits filed might make the top bods at MS into a reboot!!! on this stupid idea.
Despite what their EULA says MS has a responsibility NOT to mess up updates like this.
Nope. We made that choice as an industry to also allow Joe in his garage to come up with code he could then sell without having to mortgage his house on liability insurance (if at all available). The only difference is that Joe will probably delivery you better code from his garage then Microsoft, but then again, that's not exactly aiming high..
The last preview build, 10240 arrived on 15th/16th July and between then and the public release there was only two more weeks of 'Insider' testing.
'Insiders' were originally told they would be upgraded to the public release when it hit the streets. After a long wait and many people questioning the absence of a new build we were told that we already had it. ie Build 10240 plus a few updates prior to the 29th were identical to what was released to the public.
Oh dear. In other words they went with whatever they had come the promised released date.
It is hardly surprising that the poor unsuspecting public are having problems - the Insiders were still having problems on the 29th. And still having problems now.
It is a puzzle that many people are having odd problems. I have a strong suspicion, taking what I've observed over many months, that Windows Update itself has some inherent flaws that are randomly borking installations.
the last beta release is always the first general release. which means the last of the beta bugs will the first of the public bugs.
and eventually when they run the first general patch, something they surprisingly don't do in beta, guess what? there be dragons here.
I have seen that so many times since I started dealing with these infernal machines in 1980 that it's no surprise at all.
What me? Expecting perfection? Not at all.
That business about the last beta release being the first general release is logical I suppose. The problem is we expected a last beta release before general release and there wasn't one. Nothing to cure the many problems logged and not solved.
The big issue to me is that normally it's the keen ones who are first to upgrade, and they tend to know what they're getting into.
What Microsoft did here was to encourage millions of people who would never have thought of an upgrade to just press the button and let it come. These people, I submit, would not have done it unless pushed by Microsoft. I thought it was shockingly careless of them.
>they went with whatever they had come the promised released date.
An ex employer used to do this all the while..the hardware and software was delivered in whatever state it was in, usually...true, there were release criteria, but these were best described as 'flexible':-) Us integration and test people always bitched at release meetings as we knew that *we*, not the support arm of the company, would be on the phone & VPNs for weeks after a 'managed release'. I know you have to get the stuff out there, but....sheeesh!
Sound familiar to anyone?
Just in from the MS newsletter....
Window 7 Home Premium – Important Information!
Heads Up! July 1, 2016, Windows 7 Home Premium will no longer be available to purchase in the channel.
im going to have to stock up unless 10 sorts (itself?) out.....what else am i going to install? 8??
it ain't NT 3.51, but it works. except occasionally you have to pop the battery out because it won't shut down. and occasionally won't really start after you log in, and you have to pop the battery out.
come to thing of it, it's cranky as hell and makes me want Windows 98 again.
I think you would be amazed to learn about how solid it is already.... I have used all of my existing applications flawlessly for the moment, it installs IIS by default which stopped from starting but that's it.
What this article fails to mention, becasuse they probably don't know, is what caused the endless reboots on the systems mentioned, it also failed to mention how many machines/hardware were affected.
And if you have a machine set aside for a "guineau pig" then why not start now, is that not what test machines are actually meant to be used for. Wouldn't it make more sense to know now what if any problems you might suffer, it would at least then give you some time to prepare a mitigatation plan.
" Will someone...
... tell me again why I want to think for one millionth of one thousandth of one billionth of a femto second about actually _installing_ this?"
I stuck it in a virtual machine, I suppose for entertainment purposes and as a cautionary tale. If it blows up I can just roll it back.
I stuck it in a virtual machine
Personally I have not run Windows in any other way for the last 5 years or so, but I guess I need to marginally update the Win XP image so it's maybe time to get Win7 or 8.1. The only thing I haven't got round yet is working out how to send all attempts to find updates to 127.0.0.1 unless I want to actually WANT to update, because I sure as hell don't like that happen automatically...
I haven't checked the latest versions of Windows, but I imagine that editing the Hosts file - back it up first ! - and adding entries like www.microsoft.com 127.0.0.1 would probably do the trick. I'm sure someone will comment on how to best refine this method...
ON AN unrelated note, as a 'pedal best pushed to the metal' man when it comes to running database servers, I must admit that my prejudice against hyperVVMware is beginning to slip away as I contemplate the seeming inevitability of ever more rapid pawnage of newer OS(s) and even chip sets.
Leslie Neilson there must be some way to build a physical system with an actual key which would need to be turned to gain root privileges! Or have I got a kickstarter there?
I'm willing to be flamed, I mean educated about why even a database server should really be virtualised but so far the places where this is done and I have worked have always had weirdly tight disk space restrictions on critical DBs (coupled with mail systems which effectively dwarf the DBs, filled with endless copies of rubbish attachments).
Here is the list of servers to block in order to frustrate Microsoft Update.
As for "physical system with an actual key which would need to be turned to gain root privileges" you could probably do it with an internal RS232 port, which I think most motherboards still provide. Something like join Tx to Rx with a keyed switch, and poll that whenever someone tries to sudo? Dunno.
..tile style without the grout!
Having adopted Cupertino's business model, (chuck out beta upgrades/ updates on a continual process), this is to be expected. The dropping of 'Patch Tuesday' was a big clue!
Get used to it!
So glad I'm still on Windows 7 Pro and Linux LXDE
ever use a MS upgrade or "migration" path. On the face of it you might be able to use w/e "new" software MS is flogging faster but at the end of the day you avoid so many potential headaches by installing fresh every time. Though I can sympathize that this might not be practical for the poor souls that have huge MS installs on the back end.
Of course this problem might not be upgrade related but the potential for untested use cases goes up dramatically when doing so. Ofc to be fair this isn't an MS specific issue. Just irritates me that they haven't learned their lesson in all this time.
That said I won't even touch win10 until at least the first service pack style rollup is available. Though that's perhaps contrary to the model they're advocating atm. I just don't see that being practical over a lifespan of 10+ years.
Is this the version Bill Gates demo'ed? oh, wait what year is this? Sorry, I must have blinked out there for a moment.
Advice to MS....
Fix the issues, push back the release date, cite the desire to provide the best product possible for the delay. Do the right thing! Just this once? You might even make some people happy ;-}
Reality sets in, dates were set in meetings years ago.... Napkins have been printed, and the guest list has been mail merged...
Welcome to Beta Testing!
Disclaimer: I beta test for a competitor.
>>So it got stuck in an infinite boot loop for a few people and that's worth writing an entire article about? This has happened with every version of any OS. Somebody explain to me how this is news.
Your point is? Some OSes even have support for system snapshots to allow for easy rollbacks of updates. I realize MS has shadowcopy, etc but at the very least it's not working as intended in this circumstance. Though, tbh honest I'm not sure if this is integrated into the FS and boot menu. Flashy digital assistants that spy on you must have been a higher priority.
First time I've heard of it on any OS, actually. Then again, I'm at the lower end of IT literacy compared to a lot of the folk here, never having been a sysadmin on anything other than mainframes umpty years ago, I've missed the joys of having to handle mass upgrades of any kind of boxen, whether 'nix or Windows. And my personal Windows 'upgrades' were only ever clean installs, whilst I've had a Linux upgrade bork things precisely once - and even then it didn't stop me using my PC, it just didn't complete the upgrade and left a few programs trying to use incompatible library versions. Clean install of the new version leaving the home directory alone whilst I was drinking a cuppa sorted it.
<joke>In short - if a bunch of commie-loving pirates can get their cancerous virus of an operating system so right, then why can't the dear little angels with so much wonderful expertise at Microsoft who work so tirelessly to bring sweetness and light into our lives get it anything like as right?</joke>
Last night I installed Linux Mint on my PC. Once I get it configured nicely, Virtualbox comes next for a few "Windows Only" programs, where I'll put my legal copy of Windows 7, which will have NO Internet access.
Sorry, MS, your unnecessary snooping and forced updates have finally run me off of Windows, which I've used since the days of Windows 386.
The last time I noticed MS really pushing an OS was Vista, I remember how many people were laughing and smiling with that. That's why there are still so many XPers still out there and 7 may well end up hanging on well past what MS will regard as it's shelf life in the same way.
Shoving out a half baked OS just because the time limit is up couldn't be more ridiculous but MS doesn't learn from it's mistakes because the numpties that run it really think they are the market leader in their niche with no real opposition so they can do what they want.
One day they will wake up and find their market gone and no way back.
I personally don't like Apple but I have been toying with the idea of going that route, what the world really needs though is something completely new that offers the best of both worlds and has nothing to do with either and can be as home user friendly as 7 has been .
Just wondering; Win 10 as a service? What is a disservice then?
I looked up the cause for the infamous XP SP3 reboot loop at https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/40a0eecb-bc00-4746-8f5b-610891d7a73b/xp-sp3-and-continuos-reboots-on-amd-based-systems?forum=itproxpsp. It's an interesting read, a classical example of why Windows is flaky, also underlining their third party software dependence.
[Spoiler alert] Don't read the comments over there until you're through with my "explanation" ...
Windows XP SP2 & SP3 include a driver (intelppm.sys) which will blue-screen the machine early in the boot process when run on an AMD processor. Neither does Windows check the system type (Intel/AMD) before calling this driver, nor does the driver refuse to run on an AMD system. Instead, the initial OEM install had to have set a registry entry correctly (which some OEMs didn't), that had no purpose for XP RTM and SP1. When machines entered a reboot loop with SP2, which evaluated this registry entry, Microsoft provided a fix.
Have a guess: was it a) checking the system type before calling intelppm.sys? b) fix intelppm.sys to check for itself (which merely requires reading a single CPU register)? c) adjust the registry entry?
OK, you all voted for c), and that's what MS opted for as well. Some time later, SP3 ran into the very same problem. What had happened _there_? Some OEMs, in between SP2 and SP3, shipped their own hotfixes, fiddling with that registry entry again. Some SP3 beta testers had problems with that, so for the final SP3 MS decided to "preserve" the registry entry from being fiddled with during its own installation (apparently, the known-to-be-dodgy OEM hotfixes were re-applied during the process). Now, when people went directly from SP1 to SP3, skipping SP2, the wrong setting from the initial install was "preserved" as well and hence SP3 went into a boot loop again.
I have neither palms nor faces enough to express my feelings here.
Things can only get better than my first experience of Windows 10 yesterday. Took 5 mouse clicks and a key press to get to "Windows has encountered a problem and needs to restart". And I was only trying to shut it down.
Tried to shutdown a PC that had been left turned on, but shutdown halted as an unaved file was open;
cancelled shutdown; saved file; start menu had disappeared. Following up with ctrl-alt-del shutdown and Windows encountered problem.
What is tha shortest Windows 10 user experience before a problem?
I fought Microsoft for 32 years. 32 two painful years of watching more and more people move to Microsoft's crap. 32 years of watching entire departments switch from supportable, working systems to Microsoft's well marketed but unsupportable crap. I tried to convince too many clients that the Microsoft rep was outright lying to them. I also said "I told you so" to too many clients to count as they whined about how expensive their new "cheaper" Microsoft was compared to their other systems (the ones I used to support for them), as I told them to call someone else with their problems since they refused to listen to me in the first place.
I quit the industry a few years ago. I now serve good food to appreciative people, and the only computer I deal with professionally is a poorly designed cash register. The only Microsoft system I deal with at home is my gaming system, since that's what plays the games I want to play. Microsoft was and is and continues to be a foul, harmful blight on an entire industry. I see they haven't changed. The only thing I find continuously surprising is that people keep being surprised by Microsoft's failures. I told you so. I fucking told you so.
Same here. I remember well when a student brought the first set of Windows diskettes to the university institute I was working at. God, what a hard laugh we had, quickly returning to our Motif terminals, CP/M, Unix and (few) DOS machines. In hindsight, every single chuckle cost us arms, legs and even more vital parts over the years. There wasn't the faintest feeling of having to nip it in the buds, stillborn as it looked. But the student got it for free, and there was no copy protection (yet). Clever.
2015. Total lock-in. IT (staff) supporting Linux as best as they can (engineering, you know, needs to get things done). Virtual machine (one fully paid license taken) to be able to make PHONE CALLS, as IT (head) was talked/bribed into Lync and Windows-only-driver sets. Hmmrrrghhhh§$%"&
I feel your pain. I've used so many different systems as an alternative to Microsoft and each has much to offer, but the people that do the design and purchasing of solutions do insist on sticking with Microsoft, especially given the lock-in of some software that they insist on without giving anything else a chance because... you know... brand loyalty.
Actually I've been getting quite a giggle out of this whole article and its comments given that I posted a comment a couple of days ago based on a post on ZDNet which cited KB3081424 as knackered. I'm just glad that somebody else got to say "I told you so" before I did! Way to go, El Reg!!!
Having "worked" with windows upgrades in the past my experience has been to image the previous OS first then install a clean version of said OS without any drivers then upgrade on a different partition then restore original image. You can use upgrade media on a clean drive but you have to telephone microsoft and to be frank I dont even trust them with my 'phone number.
If you didnt make a image before "upgrading" to windows 10 then you can make a clean install of windows 10 by ignoring all the "enter license key" prompts during install.
P.S. lots of storage companies provide free drive imaging software but even if you are unlucky in this respect then buying one is a very good investment especially if your drive fails in the future
Well i have 3 machines all updated to win 10
1. Dual monitor PC (NVidia Card) Q8800 processor - Monitor problem until i re-installed the nvidia drivers. running fine
2. Single monitor AMD A4 quad core (packard bell) with Nvidia graphics - running fine, quite nippy actually
3. i7 Laptop with Nvidia / intel graphics maxed out mem and such was the fastest machine i had now takes 10 minutes to boot!
Way to go Microsoft.
Jernilisim would be finding out and reporting how many people had been affected by this issue, if it is real. On the forum link provided it looks like between 3 and 54 people. For added value, compare to the failure rate for past updates, or for competitors' updates.
Without numbers or other facts, you have not earned the right to the schadenfreude we all know and love.
The Second Law of the Internet states that he who relies on clickbait will eventually be eaten by Ariana Huffington. Think about that for a few seconds. Then write this article again.
It is very sad that this incident likely won't immediately cause Microsoft to abandon its ill-conceived decision to require all users of Windows 10, except for certain enterprise customers, to allow all Windows updates automatically and unconditionally. Microsoft still doesn't understand that things like this must never happen, that people expect their computers to be reliable.
It's also a pity that IBM doesn't see a market opportunity here. With its experience at making reliable computer systems like the z13, they have the knowledge and expertise to produce a computer that works properly for the home and small business market. (Yes, I know the mess we have now started out as the IBM PC, but IBM let Microsoft and Intel take over responsibility for it.)
Well I've just run the Windows 10 update tool on an 8.1 laptop. I hardly use it anyway, so no great loss and it got to 37% downloaded when I left it last night. This morning the update tool window had vanished. No message saying it had completed nor any error message, just nothing. Tried running it again and it came up with a message "Something happened 0x80072EE2 - 0X20000". Not the most useful error message I've ever seen. Tried rebooting and now the Windows update tool tells me that it is failing to start the Windows 10 setup, try rebooting. After rebooting and trying it again it suggests that I should try rebooting... ad nauseum. So it looks like that Windows 8.1 laptop will never have 10 on it. Microsoft have really tested this stuff thoroughly haven't then! No loss though, my primary OS is Linux Mint. Microsoft are just pushing themselves further into irrelevance from my perspective.
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