back to article Windows 10 marks the end of 'pay once, use forever' software

Windows 10 is the last version of Windows that will ever be released. If this really is the last version of Windows desktop operating system ever, though, where will Microsoft make its money? Microsoft, after-all, has built a multi-billion-dollar business on sales of new versions of Windows through retailers and to PC makers, …

  1. Anonymous Coward

    Pay us...

    If you want more than 512 items in your start menu...

    1. N13L5

      Re: Pay us...

      That sounds like SWTOR's virtual item and unlock retail circus...

      But I don't think that has much of a chance to stick with Microsoft.

      The threshold for consumers to switch to less convenient alternatives hasn't been met yet, but whenever MS goes too far with things that are acceptable to companies but not to individuals, they will go.

      I recently was asked by a technically challenged business owner who is familiar enough with Windows to do his work fluidly to replace it with Linux... I recommended against it, but he insisted and even suffers the horrible state of skype for linux and the Thunderbird email client with terrible default settings for business use, just to be off Microsoft and their constant arbitrary changes.

      1. JEDIDIAH

        Re: Pay us...

        ...that's funny because I know a business user that complains that the Windows version of Skype is full of ads and steals all upstream bandwidth.

        The Linux version of Skype seems like an improvement over that actually.

        The cash cow mentality when applied to software creates these strange paradoxes.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Pay us...

        I'm no expert on enterprise deployment (I'm forced to use the typical outlook+office+sharepoint here and in my opinion it's shite, especially sharepoint) but isn't the usual way when dispensing of microsoft to switch to Google's business tools? I've heard good things from people who use it.

  2. Martin Summers

    Wow, not sure if it was just my phone screen but Steve looked as if he'd been tango'd.

    As for Windows subscription, an OS is one thing I won't pay for monthly. I want to own it and upgrade when I'm ready. I suspect they're about to shoot themselves in the foot if they think people are going to swallow this.

    1. Martin Summers

      PS: I actually like Windows 10. Upgraded it over a dinner time from Windows 8.1 and started using it as I'd left off before. No glitches or anything. Very impressed.

      1. Michael Habel Silver badge

        PS: I actually like Windows 10. Upgraded it over a dinner time from Windows 8.1 and started using it as I'd left off before. No glitches or anything. Very impressed.

        I'm sure a random dog turd on the sidewalk, would be more impressive then Windows 8.x. So I'll trust your opinion on this matter. But, what I'd like to know is how it fairs against say a real OS like Windows 7 x64 Ultimate...

        1. Martin Summers

          In reality the only turgid thing about Windows 8 was its bolted on touch crap and lack of cohesion between that and WIMP. Underneath it is not so bad. I refused to use Windows 8 and got used to the compromise of 8.1. Windows 10 is what 8 should have been as is the pattern with Microsoft OS releases. It looks shiny and new,seems stable and it seems just after a couple of days serious use everything is where it should be again.

          I really can't understand all the Windows hate these days as there's just no need. I use Linux too occasionally, I appreciate what it is and where it is going and have installed it for none techy people who I suspect will get infected easily that just need Web browsing.

          I cut my teeth on Windows, I use and administer it at work as well as Linux Web servers, I can't imagine a world without Windows and don't see why there should be. I haven't used every Linux distro going but to me in my opinion from what I have used, the intricacies of using it and getting stuff working everyday are a bit too esoteric still. Maybe the day of Linux will come,but it hasn't yet. This really isn't a fight, it's just another Windows/Mac scenario playing out. At least there's choice now and that's the real winner for everyone.

          1. Michael Habel Silver badge

            You can't understand the Windows hate?! Funny 'cause you touched on sever points of why I disliked Windows 8.x for instance.... Things I hate (or at least on paper dislike), are enforced Driver / UI Updates with little to no say in the matter of what gets installed... The p2p sharing of the aforementioned updates at MY EXPENSE! Sure uncle Google can tell you how to turn this one off. But, why is it even on to start with?!

            I'm sure the allusion of having to shellout for things like the standard DirectX Updates will also go down well, as well. There are plenty of reasond to dislike where MicroSoft are taking Windows. Its one thing to move Office online... It will not be as simple for them to do this with Windows which is on a far more personal level. While the exit en-mass to Linux may not happen. It will happen with other non PC style equipment, and I think MicroSoft have their finger on this pulse. But, they're making this a self fulfilling prophecy with Windows 10 as it is. When what every one wants is the LTSB (5+ year version).

            1. c:\boot.ini

              >The p2p sharing of the aforementioned updates at MY EXPENSE! Sure uncle Google can tell you how to turn this one off. But, why is it even on to start with?!

              They stole that idea from cocoaweb

        2. Michael Habel Silver badge

          To add to this... DirectX shall never be the noose with which they'll hang me with... I could care lees if DX12 is ONLY for Windows X! I'm sure the PC Master Race will swallow it But, PC gaming has never appealed to me in the post MS-DOS era. But, MicroSoft will end up finding its market this way. But, I wonder how paying for something that was essentially an OS Patch will eventually play down.

          But, whats sadder in this post Windows X launch, is the lack of heart felt motivation to step away from Windows 7. Like I said... It probably is very well a godsend for those on Windows 8.x. I have NO problems in believing that! But, this is in-and-of-itself is NOT enough motivation for me a Windows 7 user to want to pack it all up and, call it a day. And, its only just shy a slap in the face that only the Bankster Classes will be granted the LTSB (Ultimate) Branch of W10.

          I have very little interest in being just a bit further up the chain then a bleeding-edge alpha Insider Tester. So that they can be in turn spared. And, then there are other problems with this OS like the p2p update system... Yeah... I'm sure thats gonna last the lifetime of the OS without ever getting p0wned once.

          Suddenly Windows (H)8 is becoming itself more, and more attractive... This can't be good for MicroSoft.....

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward


            "I could care lees "

            I will assume you are an American because it seems that the correct "I COULDN'T care less" doesn't seem to have made it across the pond.

        3. Michael Habel Silver badge

          I'd just like to point out...

          But, what I'd like to know is how it fairs against say a real OS like Windows 7 x64 Ultimate...

          That I'm still waiting for an answer to this... Apparently the MicroShrills must be too?! 'Cause apparently saying that its the most wonderful thing since ever... Isn't going to cut it this time...

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        How do you down vote a guy giving an opinion?

        Wouldn't you just post your negative experiences of Win10?

        1. c:\boot.ini

          I despise cowards so I downvote them on sight!

          No balls, no glory!

          Good old days of #SantCruzSk8baordingOnHalfpipes

      4. Andus McCoatover

        Over a dinner time???

        Sounds more like a Journalists "Liquid Lunch" followed by a "Martin Summers Is Unwell"....

        I upgraded today from a fully updated Windows 7 Pro and it took about 4 hours - without touching it - until the disk activity light, and my router light stopped being permanently on. Even now, 10 hours later I can occasionally type a sentence and have time to roll a cigarette before the text appears.

        Dual-core, 2GB ram*, Win-10 Pro 32-bit, only Edge open with 2 tabs, fan roaring its head off continually, disk light duty cycle > 90%

        *Suspect this might be the culprit. Reminiscent of how slow my first Windows-3 machine was. It had 1/1000th of the RAM, 2MB. Nothing really changes.

        1. Martin Summers

          Re: Over a dinner time???

          Yup, I set it upgrading before I went to lunch. By the time I came back it was pretty much finished. That was an i3 with 8GB RAM (you have 2? Ouch!) and yes I really was using it pretty much straight away. I didn't include download time in that as I was presented with the you're ready to upgrade message straight away as my machine is always on. Weirdly it took ages on my home machine (i5 8GB) tonight and that was using the media creation kit method after getting sick of waiting for the invite.

        2. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: Over a dinner time???

          " it took about 4 hours - without touching it - until the disk activity light, and my router light stopped being permanently on. Even now, 10 hours later I can occasionally type a sentence and have time to roll a cigarette before the text appears."

          This is going to cause problems because your system configuration seems to be typical of many consumer machines. From my experience having their computer out of action for a few hours with lots of activity will be sufficient for many to regard it as having got stuck (or been infested with malware) and hence will turn the power off... Likewise the seemingly random hangs in the hours following will not assist in creating a good impression. In conclusion, I suspect that the initial user experience will be determined by the speed and QoS of their broadband and the physical hardware of their system. Hence the experience will be highly variable, just we are seeing in the comments to many El Reg articles.

      5. tony2heads

        @Martin Summers

        That sound like saying how polite the protection racket thugs were when they come around to tell you how much you need their 'services' and how your business could suffer 'unforeseen' damage without them.

      6. Jakester

        Sure, Windows 10 is an improvement over Windows 8.x, but so is Windows 95, 98, NT, XP, 7. Ok, that is a stretch, but the one thing Microsoft did improve over Windows 7 is the speed of detecting, downloading, and installing updates. On the flip side - there is little control over timing of updates -- I'm tired of attempting to install new software and have to deal with updates installing while performing a mandatory reboot as part of a new software package install.

    2. Mark 85 Silver badge

      It's rather funny but any comments that have suggested this in the recent past were heavily downvoted... Now it appears to be coming to pass.

    3. Scorchio!!

      "Wow, not sure if it was just my phone screen but Steve looked as if he'd been tango'd.

      As for Windows subscription, an OS is one thing I won't pay for monthly. I want to own it and upgrade when I'm ready. I suspect they're about to shoot themselves in the foot if they think people are going to swallow this."

      Two things that I remembered as I read your comments; 1) I dislike Steve Ballmer, and not just because he screwed up Windows even more than previous mistakes 2) WINE is not an emulator. I think that I will in the long run plan on migrating everything to Linux, whilst cursing Bah.

      I have used MS Windows since 2 x. I tried GeoWorks with DR DOS (hmm) and a variety of other things on the way. I am impressed with the way that Knoppix transformed itself, having first used it about 12 years ago. I can remember the thrill of learning DOS switches and using MS DOS alongside WFW, which was a thrill. I had it all sorted; editing the .ini files, backing stuff up on to a Jumbo streamer. The lot. I wanted Windows NT, but what has happened has taken the fun out of it all.

      It's no longer a game. It's a grown up thing now. :-(

  3. Bloodbeastterror


    I've resisted for years, though it's been about 10 years since I made any real attempt to get into it. This could be the clincher...

    1. James 51

      Re: Linux

      While it gets a lot of stick, mainly for the UI I've found Ubuntu to be reasonably hassle free..

      1. nematoad Silver badge

        Re: Linux

        If you don't like the UI, there is as always in Linux, an alternative.

        Try Linux Mint, all the Ubuntu goodness without the frustrations of Unity.

        Check out Distrowatch to see how popular Mint is.

        1. Preston Munchensonton

          Re: Linux

          +1 for Mint.

          Best thing is the variations available. I'm very partial to Cinnamon myself, but the others each offer something specific to draw in users based on their tastes.

        2. Michael Habel Silver badge

          Re: Linux

          Try Linux Mint, all the Debian (apt-get), goodness without the Amazon bloat. -- fixed that for you... Ubuntu might be the goto brand... But, at the end of the day it is itself only a fork of Debian.

          1. DropBear

            Re: Linux

            "Try Linux Mint"

            Unfortunately, at the end of the day, you're also encouraged to take a sharp axe to your OS and rebuild it from scratch for tomorrow (we don't need no steenkin' "upgrades"! Burn it to the ground!!!). -- fixed that for you...

            1. Rumournz

              Re: Linux (@Dropbear)

              not true so much now - starting from mint 17 you can upgrade without a ground up re-install , and in my (limited admittedly) experience it does it more smoothly than windows ... i still have a W7 gaming box, and when 7 goes EOL i'll switch that to mint as well

              1. DropBear

                Re: Linux (@ Rumournz)

                @Rumournz: Thanks, I didn't know that. I'll definitely have to look into this!

                @Paul Crawford: Thank you, that's certainly sound advice for a fresh install - but as it it, my HDD is already full partitioned into NTFS drives for Windows use (which I expect to mount under Linux), except for a ~50GB slot I reserved for a Linux system drive. Splitting that up yet again seems a bit much trouble if possible at all without upsetting the existing partition table (non-GPT); I guess "home" will have to stay on the same drive until the next PC upgrade (probably quite a few LTSs away - I'm a highly-averse-to-change kinda guy, it always takes too much effort for nothing).

                1. c:\boot.ini

                  Re: Linux (@ Rumournz, DropBear)

                  If it is not a laptop, get an additional 60Gb SSD, install Linux on it, and with symbolic links you can even use your Windows Home folder as your Linux one, all your data in one folder hierarchy .... AND, when you want to hose linux, all you have to do is wipe the SSD and, after install, re-create the symlinks ... ;-)

            2. CAPS LOCK

              Re: Linux

              Long Term Support versions and proper backups are your friend,

            3. Paul Crawford Silver badge

              Re: Linux @DropBear

              When you install Linux go to the advanced options for disk partitioning and set up something like this:

              / ext4 (~30GB if you have enough space)

              /home ext4 (most of the rest of the disk)

              And leave about 30GB if you can (say on a 1TB HDD or similar so its no big deal). That way you can nuke your OS installation without losing your own data, and if you prefer install a later version in the unused space and also have it mounting your home partition later. Then the grub boot menu will give you the chance to boot in to old or new versions.

            4. JEDIDIAH

              Re: Linux

              Even if that were true, burning any Linux to the ground and reinstalling from scratch is still less trouble than any Windows install or upgrade. User data is easy to protect and separate based on Unix design elements that predate Linux.

              1. kb

                Re: Linux

                Its just as easy on Windows, simply have one partition (or an SSD) for Windows and a second partition (or HDD) for user data. Simply click on the user folder after install and choose "move" and move it to the drive where the data is stored on the HDD...tada!

                And I'll get hate for saying it but truth is truth...all those guys singing Linux praises? WinME was a gained nothing. Vista was a gained nothing. Windows 8 was a bomb...starting to sense a pattern here? To steal a line from a former US presidential election ITS THE PROGRAMS STUPID and I'm sorry but in 2015 Linux programs simply cannot compete with commercial software from a decade ago, they just can't. You know the obvious ones, Gimp and Inkscape can't touch Photoshop or even PaintShop Pro from 2005, Audacity can't touch Sonor or Acid Pro from a decade ago, I could go on all day. You wanna know what somebody used to using good commercial software thinks when they try Linux? You know those Chinese knock offs sold on sites like Chinabuye, like those MP5 players made to look like the Vita or cheap Android "consoles" with names like Polystation 4 and Wii U2? Using Linux software feels like that, its all a bunch of bad ersatz knock offs that only look like the real deal in the most superficial ways and once you use it? It compares about as well as that Polystation 4 does to the PS4.

                So as long as Linux is openly hostile to commercial software, the kind the vast majority of the planet has literally invested billions of dollars in purchasing? Then MSFT could change the name of Win 10 to "Big Brother Edition" and put the Eye of Sauron as a desktop wallpaper, they will still get more users in 22 days than Linux desktops have gained in 22 years. People simply aren't gonna give up all that software for bad ersatz knock offs or worse be told they need to buy Windows just to run it in a VM, to which I always reply "If I still have to buy Windows, what do I need your OS for?"

                BTW before anybody chimes in with Android/ChromeOS? That is a proprietary OS owned by Google which phones home just as much if not more than anything MSFT puts out and which in the case of Android we are seeing more and more taken proprietary thanks to the Google Playwall and in the case of ChromeOS we are seeing bog standard X86 hardware so locked down with DRM that it takes a page of CLI simply to get it to run a handful of special distros with approved bootloaders, you might as well claim TiVos and routers as desktops if you are gonna count those.

                1. TCook1943

                  Re: Linux

                  I seriously could not resist having a pop @ this one because in so many ways its no more than the simple truth though overly harsh towards Linux software's.

                  Para 2 is where in my view you run off the rails and suffer a major crash, you not I state, "WinME was a gained nothing. Vista was a gained nothing. Windows 8 was a bomb.." etc.

                  How much did those systems cost you? I assume you did buy them and not knock them off - as against the cost of Linux systems over the same period. Answer umpety £ as against SFA. How many options did you have within those systems, nada versus infinity? Are you, "starting to sense a pattern here?"

                  Many of the admittedly excellent packages you quote, (And their more modern successors) actually do run pretty well under Linux via Wine & its derivatives while all and virtually everything else you might fancy run on virtual machines.

                  "I always reply "If I still have to buy Windows, what do I need your OS for?" to which I might answer "To stop MS from stuffing my box with malware I didn't ask for or want". In the past I've used every MS product from Dos 3.1, (Which was the first remotely reliable version) to Win 10 and ripe Gorgonzola most were.

                  With the release of Win 10 MS plumbed new depths however, I'd long been accustomed to coping with outside threats against generations of poorly programmed operating systems but now MS themselves have now riddled all their current operating systems with, "Tell me your inmost secrets" write home "Features" to the point where the only really safe option is to deny them internet access. Which of course renders those same operating systems useless unless you are prepared to lie back and think of England while MS rapes your machine or restrict access to a parent Linux system.

                  "So as long as Linux is openly hostile to commercial software, the kind the vast majority of the planet has literally invested billions of dollars in purchasing?". Which planet do you call home anyway?

                  Linux as an entity just doesn't exist in the sense you use it, every user has his or her own take on what is or is not acceptable. Mine incidentally is to use the handiest and best tool for the specific job a view with which most users would I believe agree. Choice is not just key here its the entire point of buying a computer.

        3. TheTick

          Re: Linux

          After a particularly annoying evening trying to simply get into safe mode and do a system restore after a dodgy install borked my Win8.1 system, I am going to finally install Linux Mint Mate edition and give it a proper trial as my main day to day system.

          Apparently my OS drive was "locked" which meant the recovery usb couldn't do either a system restore or repair and didn't tell me how to unlock it either. Eventually I found the command to re-enable the F8 menu on boot and got it done (FYI it's "bcdedit /set {default} bootmenupolicy legacy" from an elevated command prompt).

          The above kerfuffle has just added weight to my concerns abouts Win 10's Cortana, the mandatory auto-updates, the pushing towards a Microsoft account and OneDrive and mostly the fact there's no straight answer on whether this will change my retail Win 7/8.1 keys into OEM ones yet.

          Win 10 makes me uneasy, Linux deserves a shot.

          1. detroitgeek

            Re: Linux

            I just loved your comment:

            (FYI it's "bcdedit /set {default} bootmenupolicy legacy" from an elevated command prompt).

            and wonder how in hell windows users can say that Linux is difficult to understand... I mean really - are they serious?

          2. Mpeler
            Big Brother

            Re: Linux

            Wonder what would happen if everyone yelled F-ck Microsoft at the same time to Cortana...

            Maybe Redmond (or the building, not the people) would disappear in a puff of 1s and 0s and normalcy would return to the computing world (and a good bit of greed would disappear).

        4. Dr. Ellen

          Re: Linux

          I tried Linux Mint, but ended up using Zorin Linux. They're both Ubuntu at heart, but I preferred the default Zorin default GUI. After I use it for a while, I may diddle with appearances.

          1. Michael Habel Silver badge

            Re: Linux

            Again at the risk of being pedantic... ITS DEBIAN! And, not Ubuntu!

            1. Anonymous Coward

              Re: Linux

              Again at the risk of being pedantic... Never start a sentence with "And" and never follow "and" with a ",".

            2. c:\boot.ini

              Re: Linux

              >Again at the risk of being pedantic... ITS DEBIAN! And, not Ubuntu!

              Credit where credit's due, great!!!!!

              Now, who is the #%&#%@ cretin who downvoted you ????

        5. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

          Re: Linux

          Or Lubuntu, Kubuntu, Ubuntu Mate, Xubuntu, Zorin, Bohdi, etc.; there are numerous desktop options if you do not like Unity.

          1. N13L5

            Re: Linux

            Is there any Linux UI that looks and works like Rainmeter...?

            1. Angus Ireland

              Re: Linux

              @N13L5 If you're looking for a Rainmeter replacement for Linux, give Conky a look.

          2. JEDIDIAH

            Re: Linux

            You can even [gasp] just install MATE over top the standard Ubuntu and be done.

            All of those variants are nothing more than different sets of "apt-get" commands.

          3. Jakester

            Re: Linux

            I have been using Ubuntu as my primary OS for a little over 5 years on desktops and laptops. Is also use it on servers. I recently started using Lubuntu on servers because of better support of video cards found on older servers (yes, I use the gui interface, rather than the default text screens in the server editions).

            There are plenty of flavors of Linux out there are geared to various groups of people (students, engineers, musicians, etc). There are only 2 flavors of Win 10, both seem to be geared to people who like to bang their heads against a brick wall.

        6. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Linux

          I'm quite happy with the stock install of debian I did recently on my ancient netbook.

          I do like to shop around when it comes to applications though, so I don't like the ubuntu/mint way of forcing the defaults (yeah I know I can uninstall them) so prefer a blank canvas that I can install stuff on. Debian supported everything out the box (which i've had problems with in the past) and was surprisingly user friendly.

          1. Andy Goss

            Re: Linux

            Anyone coming from Windows may find the KDE desktop easier to relate to. I've been on Netrunner for a couple of years now and it does everything I want.

            People say Linux is hard to look after, but I also support my wife's Windows 7 and it gives me a lot more trouble than Netrunner. There is an LTS version of Netrunner, and a rolling update one that I have not tried. Looks like Microsoft are copying that idea. But done The Microsoft Way, just like they thought the Internet was a neat idea so created The Microsoft Network thinking there would be queues round the block for it. Not quite.

      2. keithpeter Silver badge

        Re: Linux

        @ Bloodbeastterror

        James 51 makes a sensible and safe suggestion on the choice of *distribution*.

        I'd go one step further and suggest the purchase of a refurbished laptop as a throw away machine while experience is gathered. A core-duo class Thinkpad (e.g. x200) can be had for £90 or so on the well known auction site from one of the suppliers who sell ex-corporate machines ('buy it now, 10 or more in stock, 128 sold' or similar). These come with a Windows 7 Home OEM installation targeted at recycled computers so you have a way back. Explore using a 'live' session before installing.

        I'd also suggest investigating clonezilla (a bootable linux designed to run from USB stick or CD that can be used to image an entire hard drive to an external hard drive).

        Have fun. It is a whole world.

    2. XenonXZ

      Re: Linux

      A lot has changed in 10 years.

      I started using Linux in 2001, it was a rocky road but now it is awesome, I don't use Ubuntu/Mint longtime Gentoo user :)

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'd probably pay quite happily for security and driver updates on a basically sound, stable, and coherent OS (such as Windows 7) - AS LONG AS there is none of this monkeying with the UI in attempts to force me to buy something else from the OS vendor.

    I'd like my OS to be separable from the applications that I choose to run, and the internet services that I choose to use.

    What worries me is that W10 appears to be only a partial de-abortion of W8.x, and if that's the Windows I'm going to be stuck with forever, no thanks.

    Time to get a very high end used Thinkpad with W7, I think...

    1. td97402

      Time to get a very high end used Thinkpad with W7, I think...

      There are brand new, high end ThinkPads available to purchase at least for a while longer.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You have four and a half years before Windows 7 goes the way of XP. That's not a bad lifetime for something you buy today, but a choice which will become increasingly hard to make over time.

    3. Mpeler

      UEFI, SecureBoot, TPM, what's to like?

      Just wait until Micro$loth hogties OEMs and mobo manufacturers into locking down secure boot.

      Probably will see a surge in BIOS/firmware coding as a "hobby", methinks...

      ("Board"ed - bad pun. Sorry) ----------------------------------------------------------------^^

  5. RIBrsiq

    'Pay once, use forever'...?

    I am curious: how did the author manage to type and publish this article using MS-DOS v1.0...?

    And if update sizes are an issue for you, I suggest looking into the wonders of a little tool called DISM... included in every Windows edition since Vista, I believe.

    Microsoft said that Windows 10 will be supported -- including all future updates of Windows -- "for the lifetime of the device", or some such.

    What this exactly means, we'll have to see. But one reasonable interpretation is that the Windows license is inseparably tied to the hardware it's installed on, and while all future Windows updates will be free, there's no guarantees regarding driver availability and so on.

    So almost exactly the opposite of what the article claims, assuming this interpretation is correct.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 'Pay once, use forever'...?

      Everything looks to be going towards the subscription model...

      Just look at Photoshop and you're looking at the future, bleak as it is.

      1. Vector

        Re: 'Pay once, use forever'...?

        "Just look at Photoshop and you're looking at the future, bleak as it is."

        That might work for Adobe, but I suspect Microsoft will find it tougher going. Why? Because Operating Systems are passe and there are options out there to get around the subscription model (see above regarding Linux distros). If MS tries subscriptions and gets it wrong, they'll see their market collapse as the world moves on to other options.

        1. Francis Boyle

          Re: 'Pay once, use forever'...?

          "That might work for Adobe, but I suspect Microsoft will find it tougher going. "

          "Chrome OS: All your data are belong to us but, hey, no subscription fees ever."

      2. DropBear

        Re: 'Pay once, use forever'...?

        "Everything looks to be going towards the subscription model..."

        Yes. Yes, it certainly does. That doesn't mean however that I have any intention whatsoever to comply with any such barely-disguised blackmail attempts. Thankfully, I still have other options...

      3. Wade Burchette

        Re: 'Pay once, use forever'...?

        Microsoft will not be able to get by with Windows-as-a-Service. Look at the average users of Windows. When suddenly they receive messages about having to pay to use their computer, the outcry will be even worse than with Metro. Already there are cries about once free solitaire now costing money. Microsoft can get by with SaaS on Office 365 because it is not necessary for the computer to work.

        Besides, Windows 10 will not be the last Microsoft OS. At some point in time, new better ways of doing things will be discovered and that will require a dramatic overhaul of the OS.


      Re: 'Pay once, use forever'...?

      > I am curious: how did the author manage to type and publish this article using MS-DOS v1.0...?

      I used my first spreadsheet, word processor, and mouse driven drawing app on the Apple II.

      Some things just don't need to be re-invented every year. Once Microsoft finally got it's act together and had a half decent GUI, a lot of basic stuff beyond that point probably didn't need "upgrading" that much.

      What exactly am I paying for in this years version of rehashed software from 1994? Should I even need to care about those things? These questions are usually not addressed. It's just assumed that everyone will buy the shovelware because they think they have to.

  6. Paratrooping Parrot

    2020 you say?

    I think I will stay with Windows 7 on my laptop. I don't think it will last another 5 years. I had it for 3 years already. :) As long as it gets the updates for the next 5 years, I should be fine with this laptop.

    By the way, there are so many spelling mistakes in the article that needs correcting.

    "Windows 10 is coming in just over a week's time" I think it has come out already.

    1. Bleu

      Re: 2020 you say?

      You win for spotting the mistakes, not just spelling BTW.

      ... but lose by not quoting any. The quote is a messy sentence, but I cannot see an error.

      You will still be getting the 'up' from me.

      I wonder why about half of Reg. writers can't spell or write, or have no idea about what they are writing about?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 2020 you say?

      Right - I was happy using XP for a decade (from the RTM to finally adopting Win 7),

      so why change from Win 7 now?

  7. TeeCee Gold badge

    What goes around....

    The current trend among tech vendors is to flip you from paying a one-off fee for a product or service and to pay a monthly subscription.

    Of course, anyone with a memory longer than that of a mayfly will know that not too long ago this was the way that everything in this business worked.

    Presumably the one off fee / subscription thing is the next "cycle" in this business, much as the mainframe / distributed computing two-step has been for many years.

    1. GX5000

      Re: What goes around....

      Yes..yes, you need your "fix" this week ?

      Subscription is just another word for addiction and M$ is now pushing updates.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What goes around....

      Instead of an annual support fee we get it paid monthly. The problem for Microsoft is setting that low enough to undercut the competition and I'm not looking at Apple as the competition. Canonical might fit in this ecosystem niche.

      1. MacGyver

        Re: What goes around....

        "Instead of an annual support fee we get it paid monthly."

        Until they go to charging hourly, then by each function.

        "Looks like you are trying to work on this document, please purchase 500 credits to continue."

    3. Mpeler

      Re: What goes around....

      Yep, from another who heralds from the days that "IBM WAS the environment", timesharing, drum and core memory (sounds like a marching band)(banned), card and paper punches, etc.

      I think tricky Bill & co. counted on no-one remembering it. The only problem now is how to redo what minis did to mainframes and then what micros did to minis...

  8. James 51

    Anyone else noticed that any negative comment about windows 10 is getting a lot more downvotes than that sort of comment usually gets?

    MS haven't had to do a xbox one style u-turn yet but they risk losing a lot of the most tech savvy users if they don't. I know it won't concern them that much but it will strengthen the competition which should concern them.

    1. Chika

      From what I've seen so far, it depends on the content of the negative comment. Interesting to note how you have brought up the XBone though. The whole experience so far has led me to draw the same conclusion.

      Anyway, I'm preparing a test laptop to see what I make of it all over the weekend. My overall impression will depend on that.

    2. IJC

      @James 51

      I think it's just the anti Microsoft comments from the Linux fanboys are just a lot more boneheaded than usual and people are fed up with the FUD.

      Personally I think the fact that by next month there will probably be more installs of Windows 10 than Linux Desktop is hurting their feelings hence the increase in unjustified nastiness.

      1. DropBear

        "Personally I think the fact that by next month there will probably be more installs of Windows 10 than Linux Desktop..."

        You seem to make the unsubstantiated claim that Linux fans give a shit about how many of anything really gets installed. I can only speak for myself but I really couldn't care less who else installs what.

        1. detroitgeek

          I'm a Linux user - have been one for years.

          With every release of Windows I see, users learn to live with yet more of what they don't want.

          I read a lot about Windows but I won't go near it. The farther that OS goes down the crapper, the happier I am for have taken the time to learn how a computer should really work.

          I will say thanks to all of the Microsoft fans that entertain me constantly tho.

        2. JEDIDIAH

          They're escaping the quarantine zone!

          Well, I do care about new Windows machines becoming part of a bit torrent swarm without the consent or knowledge of the end user. At that point, it's not just Lemming self-flagellation anymore. That's something that can impact me if I happen to be sharing a network with a new WinBox. Plus friends and family will be impacted and likely experience "mysterious internet slowdowns".

          I'm not a Windows user but I'm often called upon to rescue them.

      2. JEDIDIAH


        No. I think it's just backlash from butthurt Lemmings that see all of the negative articles here.

        I don't really have to say anything negative about Windows. El Reg is doing fine without me.

    3. silent_count

      @James 51

      And at the time I write this you've got 7 downvotes for making a perfectly reasonable observation.

      I'd love to see a feature added to El Reg so you can look up who up/downvoted each post because I share your view, James 51 - I think The Register has finally got popular enough that MS is paying some 'image management' mob to downvote anyone who says anything negative about Microsoft.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @James 51

        "MS is paying some 'image management' mob to downvote anyone who says anything negative about Microsoft."

        I'd vote for that. Doesn't Disqus have something like that already?

        Anyway I suspect in this rather unusual case your conclusion may actually be slightly back to front.

        Participants in the shrinking ecosystem of Certified Microsoft Dependent folks who have done so well for/from (and are still paying so much to) Microsoft, now and over the years, are probably doing the downvoting, even without MS paying an "image management" outfit.

        It's going to be an interesting few years for them.

    4. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Well to be honest the things that I've been reading about Windows 8.x & 10 haven't had me singing in the rafters.... In hindsight I think the post Windows hate ~ca Vista were totally... Or near totally unjustified. However Ballmer giving the OEMs to play fast & loose with the minimum specs of what is needed to actually run a decent Vista Machine, was probably what killed it off. Thus enters Windows 7, the Neo-XP I'd dare to say that Windows 7 probably was their high-water mark as far as the OS goes...

      Then came the iFad, and oh-nows we need to make everything touch-able now... Thus came Windows 8.x... And, all the WIMP users went into a giant collective chorus of WTF?! Thus enters Windows 10.

      But, the one thing I've yet to see (i.e. read), even once... Is any compelling reason to push off, and use Windows 10, over say Windows 7. I think anyone with a braincell left would know that this is a downgrade. Loss of Aero (Transparencies), loss of privacy (creepy Cortina), the loss of control (updates).... I've yet to see any wins... Other then.. Well its not Windows 8.x!

      I don't have a doubt in my mind this is what millions of People are thinking this right now... Problem is I was blessed to never come across any Windows 8,x Machines in the Wild ever. So while I can feign emptily for those Persons... I really haven't a clue about it. And Microsoft are cementing 7's place as the new XP, well till 2020 anway. I wonder if history (XP clinging to life after all these years with reportedly 12% of all Internet traffic coming from XP.), is set to repeat itself? Something is telling me yes it will.

  9. 420Penguin
    Thumb Down

    Windows 365

    The problem with Windows 10 is not that they might charge for new features down the line (I would think that security updates will always be free), but that they're forcing "features" and new drivers on users. i only get security updates on Win 7 automatically and choose what other updates to accept and leave off. I want to be able to maintain this practice with Win 10, but I can can't.

    However, a subscription Windows could be in the future as Microsoft recently trademarked the "Windows 365" brand. By that time i'm hoping all my games are on Steam OS and Linux, and I can leave Windows behind.

    1. Dwarf Silver badge

      Re: Windows 365 - DaaS

      But what about leap years -- is this built in DaaS - Downtime As As Service ?

      Its interesting seeing how many "features" are being lined up on their own. Each of them is large enough to make you go "meh" not for me and move away, or is this the MCPTMP - Microsoft Customer Pain Threshold Measurement Programme at work ?

      The approach is a bit like trying to licence a screwdriver on a per-screw basis.

      A PC is just a tool, like a hammer. Dream on if you think I'm paying monthly for the same basic thing or any pretend services.

      I can't remember what the brand of the last hammer was that I purchased, same with the OS, but the one that feels best to work with and gets the job done is the one I'll use.

      1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

        Re: Windows 365 - DaaS

        While I can tell you the OS I am running (not Windows), it is just a tool for one to use a computer and nothing else. The less initial fiddling beyond cosmetic stuff the better.

      2. P. Lee

        Re: Windows 365 - DaaS

        >I can't remember what the brand of the last hammer was that I purchased, same with the OS,

        MS pretty much admits this with its android programme. Pretty much any OS allows you to click icons and run stuff these days.

        Office is where the cash is. Desktop Windows is just a "top-up" license fee for Office. It also helps drive the upgrade cycle. E.g. You upgrade Exchange Server to keep in support, you get a new Outlook client, but it doesn't work on Old Windows, so you upgrade Windows. But now the rest of Office was designed for Windows "two versions ago" and therefore isn't supported. So you need to upgrade that...

      3. Mpeler

        Re: Windows 365 - DaaS

        There's also the WSYP program, which claims that "We Share Your Pain".

        Have to say, there's a lot of pain to be shared thanks to Windoze 1 0... (WSYP plus some more M$ funnies).

    2. DropBear

      Re: Windows 365

      "The problem with Windows 10 is not that they might charge for new features down the line..."

      So, ummm, how do you feel about paying a moderate monthly subscription for not seeing ads between two games of Solitaire...? Oh, it 's all cool? Okay, cool...

  10. Carl W

    OS X upgrades "cheap"?

    The last couple have been free...

    1. Sebby

      Re: OS X upgrades "cheap"?

      And the hardware requirements correspondingly less forgiving ...

      Yes, I use Macs. I still think they're a better deal, just now anyway.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: OS X upgrades "cheap"?

        They've been free since 10.7 and the hardware requirements haven't changed since 10.8...

        1. Sebby

          Re: OS X upgrades "cheap"?

          Nearly; RAM and Bluetooth hardware. Admittedly Apple are no longer selling just the minimum on new models anymore, but let's be honest, hardware is now the driver, just like iOS.

          I should wait 'til El Capitan and see though. It could just be Yosemite being crap. I've liked what I've seen thus far.

  11. GX5000

    Devil's own part Deux

    So how long until someone rips out the junk out of this version and creates a proper version ?

    I lost count of the number of XP boxes I services for driver and hardware issues over the years

    that were Devil's Own SP1 with a firewall, AV and router and never patched beyond with zero issues...

    WIN10 is a trap that many of this generation will walk into willingly as they did with their Phones.

    Time to make the Linux Distros my mains I guess.

    1. petur

      Re: Devil's own part Deux

      I switched from Win 2K to linux back then, and haven't looked back. So I find these articles quite amusing. And the nice thing is you can actually use your hardware until it breaks or lacks the power for the things you want to do, not the bloody OS GUI

  12. Cynic_999

    I see people are already moaning in the mainstream media that they now have to rent their games software such as "Solitaire" rather than having bundled with the OS, and pay even more if they want it without adverts - and I suspect that more and more hidden costs will come to light in the near future.

    If this increases popularity for Linux it could break the chicken-and-egg situation regarding hardware manufacturers supporting Linux drivers and software developers offering Linux versions of their applications. Then I'll finally be able to ditch Windows and use Linux exclusively. I try to change to Linux at least twice a year, but so far there has always been several brick walls that make it impossible for me to do everything I want to do on a Linux machine.

    1. Dwarf Silver badge

      Such as ?

      So what sort of show stopper issues do you hit ?

      We need marketing people to reconnect with the real world and realise that adverts and subscriptions are about as popular as cancer.

      1. JEDIDIAH

        Re: Such as ?

        > We need marketing people to reconnect with the real world and realise that adverts and subscriptions are about as popular as cancer.

        No. We exist in a vanishingly small minority of people that think ads are any problem at all.

        Otherwise, we would not have had about 100 years of ad supported free media.

        Time to face facts. You and I are weirdos.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: ad supported free media

          "about 100 years of ad supported free media."

          For maybe 95 (maybe more) of those years it was clear what the adverts bought you, and although the adverts may have been big, in general they weren't that intrusive (American commercial TV being one of the obvious exceptions).

          In the last couple of years, maybe before that, some of the online adverts have got excessively intrusive and some web users are doing something about it. Maybe the advertisers will moderate their practices. But somehow I doubt it.

          This posting brought to you in association with NME Radio and NME Press - the future of ad supported free media.

    2. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Try the approach I went for - run Linux as your host and have a couple of VMs of XP, 7, etc for the software that is only windows. OK, you need a decent amount of RAM, but it works well enough and those VMs generally never need to see t'Internet so a few less security points to worry about.

  13. Andy Non

    Another nail in the coffin.

    Windows has slipped from being my only operating system to a hardly used secondary operating system behind Linux Mint. Truth be told, I use XP more often than 8.1. If subscription fees raise their head after I upgrade 8.1 to 10, then I'll just let it die and become 100% Linux.

    1. Chika

      Re: Another nail in the coffin.

      Same here. I have two openSUSE 13.1 systems that do my main work as well as a netbook running the venerable openSUSE 11.4. The other machines that run Windows 7 are only there to run software that refuses to run anywhere else and these applications are becoming fewer as the years go by.

      That doesn't include my two RasPis, one with Rasbian, the other with RISC OS (now there's an OS that really lasted well!)

      1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

        Re: Another nail in the coffin.

        Indeed. Windows apps are legacy stuff. It makes sense to run them on a legacy version of the OS.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No Sale MS, Ok?

    As has been already said in this thread, Linux is a much more viable option than it once was.

    I won't pay /ms another penny once my MSDN subscription runs out next May. That's it, I'm done with Windows and all its crap because I'm gonna retire.

    I just can't be bothered with this pay monthly direction that sofware is going in. F**k you Adobe.

    You lost me as a customer when you made Photoshop available only on subscription.

    Now it looks like MS is going the same way.

    Well MS, as much as I've been with you all these years (And earned a pretty decent living to boot), this move is straw that broke my back. Bye-Bye MS. I won't miss the new you in the slightest.

  15. nk

    For crying out loud stop this madness!

    You are not being charged on a monthly or any other basis for using windows 10. Not a year from now, and not 10 years from now.

    Sure, at some point what you have is not going to be worth running any more. You might want to upgrade then... or not, whatever. But it's not just gonna refuse to run.

    Yet all it takes is yet another crap article saying arbitrary things and baseless assumptions and all those people who can't wait, jump on the opportunity to "stick it to M$" or gloat about how happy they are with OSX or Linux. As if anybody cares.

    I am not a MS employee or shareholder, just a satisfied user who's sick and tired of pointless bashing. It used to be cool 10 years ago. Now it's just stupid.

    Downvote away!

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      No, it's still cool.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @NK - My pleasure to downvote you.

      You're welcome!

    3. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: another crap article saying arbitrary things and baseless assumptions

      We'll see how baseless they are in 12 months.

      I'm betting that Microsoft is not only going to go full-on pay-to-play with Windows 10 functionality, but it is also going to screw up the updating in a major way in less than 6 months. Facebook has demonstrated that people are willing to give in to micropayments for a stupid game, I'm convinced that Microsoft is going to take this idea to the next level.

      Place your bets, people.

      Meanwhile, I'll be using Win 7/64 until I retire. Then it'll be Steam OS and some flavor of Linux.

  16. Ceiling Cat

    Fact, or speculation and FUD?

    Is this actually the true and proven direction for Windows 10, or is this speculation/FUD?

    Just curious, as stupid cloudy buzzphrases like Software-As-A-Service get thrown around far too often these days.

    I'm not in IT - I'm the bloke who cleans the bog - but I do own at least 1 windows-based PC and would like to know if this is definitely going to be a thing, or whether MS-Haters are just speculating and spreading FUD.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Fact, or speculation and FUD?

      If Windows is a service then by definition you're going to have to pay for the service.

      Perhaps not current devices (they need to build a base for universal apps and the shop) but there's nothing to stop them charging rent for Windows on future devices, perhaps you might get devices with Windows 10 Starter and if you want more features you pay.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Fact, or speculation and FUD?

      Speaking as a software developer, article is indeed speculative and mostly FUD.

      I'm heartily fed up with hearing that I'm supposed to write software for Windows PC systems of yesteryear just because users/enterprises want to stick with obsolete system software. Its the same with Android where theres no end of pointless fiddling about API levels because of the fragmented installed base.

      Microsoft is the largest software development company on the planet and I can only guess how much more the traditional big release of windows is a pain for their development efforts compared with me as an individual developer.

      We are no longer in the 1990s, this move technically makes a lot of sense and IMO long overdue. Certainly Microsoft could exploit change in nefarious ways as could anyone but could doesn't mean will and I've seen no evidence this is part of their thinking.

      A lot of people 'in IT' commenting here benefit from the amount of support needed to keep these old systems running and may see their livelihood threatened by a change to a contantly updated version of Windows. Personally I think this fear in needless so long as people affected are prepared to cope with change.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Fact, or speculation and FUD?

        If you were really a software developer you wouldn't like to target a moving platform.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Fact, or speculation and FUD?

          And if you were a highly experienced software developer you wouldn't make a comment like that.

          Of course stability is important but only where it helps not hinders. For instance DX9 has been the usual level for DirectX for many years because so many users don't have later versions. If you don't care about graphics fine but if performance matters it means writing multiple implementations of function for the various DirectX versions, more work and more error prone. Maybe you don't care about these technicalities but consequences perculate through the software stack as browser rendering and runtimes such as .Net WPF use these lower levels.

          A similar situation applies to Android where I'd love to see OpenGL ES kept up to date rather than left to the whim of an individual OEM.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: Fact, or speculation and FUD?

            If you're browser-rendering or using .Net WPF in a game then you've got more problems than if the user is at DirectX 9.0c or not. And if they're not at the latest version of DX 9, 10, or 11 then you can package a redistributable with your game so they are.

          2. JEDIDIAH

            Re: Fact, or speculation and FUD?

            > And if you were a highly experienced software developer you wouldn't make a comment like that.

            You mean GAME developer.

            The rest of us appreciate "stability" in the Debian sense of the word.

            Needing to basically learn a whole new API between major releases of a library is not cool unless you're trying to squeeze every bit of juice you can out of current hardware and don't care how you do it.

  17. DJSpuddyLizard


    "it's possible to see foresee Microsoft DirectX suddenly being weaponised as a reason to upgrade to the latest release or charged as an optional extra."

    Already happened - DirectX 10 was supposed to get gamers to move to Vista

    1. P. Lee

      Re: DirectX

      >"it's possible to see foresee Microsoft DirectX suddenly being weaponised as a reason to upgrade to the latest release or charged as an optional extra."

      LoL No. Unless they plan on ditching xbox as hardware and rolling up xboxOS and DirectX.

      No-one's going to support a graphics standard which isn't ubiquitous.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Business market?

    Do the same commercial terms and implications also apply in the volume business market? I couldn't see that in the article (maybe the business market isn't financially significant? Surely not?).

    In the consumer market, Joanna Public already knows that most of what her household needs to do doesn't need Windows. A Mac, or even a tablet for some stuff. Windows is only the default choice because it's what "PC" vendors have always offered, and historically there hasn't been that much alternative. Now there is, and lots of home users aren't replacing their out of date/broken PCs with another PC, they're going for something completely different. A few folks might go for Linux/x86 as a low cost interim measure if they have a nearby geek, but as there is little or no money to be made for/from home Linux users, I don't personally expect this to be the start of a volume rollout of Linux/x86 in the home market.

    We've seen "peak Windows/x86" in the consumer market. And now for something completely different. Windows/x86 isn't going away overnight, but Windows 10 sure doesn't seem like a major selling point.

    SoHo users? Slightly different from home users. There already are small-scale opportunities there for Linux/x86 deployment, e.g. small companies offering support to other small companies in a way that rarely gets mentioned. Windows 10 may just broaden the Linux/x86 adoption rate in SoHo.

    And then there's the Enterprise market. Wtf does all this mean to them ?

    Trevor? Have I missed an article, or is it due soon?

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Business market?

      "A few folks might go for Linux/x86 as a low cost interim measure if they have a nearby geek, but as there is little or no money to be made for/from home Linux users, I don't personally expect this to be the start of a volume rollout of Linux/x86 in the home market."

      You think not? What if W10 doesn't appeal to the home user & you're a H/W manufacturer? You need an OS to load on your boxes in order to sell them. There's money to be made from home Linux users by selling the HW.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Doctor Syntax - Re: Business market?

        Sorry to piss on your party but by accepting to implement UEFI SecureBoot manufacturers have shown their mind. So far they seem to think they can still make money by toeing the Microsoft line and Microsoft has nothing against that belief.

        For your information when migrating to Windows 7 I was forced to dispose a perfectly functional Canon scanner because they felt it is more profitable to force me to buy a new one instead of just upgrading the driver for the existing one.

        If I were you I'd pay close attention to this article (eventually reading it several times).

        1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

          Re: @Doctor Syntax - Business market?

          The real question is will home users stay loyal to MS. Most home users do not need a specific office suite, photo editing suite, browser, etc. They may need something do those functions but necessary MS or Adobe. Once the dam breaks with home users MS could lose the entire market. H/W manufacturers have shown themselves to be loyal to their profits, hence the proliferation of Android phones not Windows phones. If they see a shift by home users away from MS they will adjust. The keys to watch are ChromeOS, Chromebooks, and AndroidOS. If they become very popular then MS has lost the home market and probably a good chunk of the SOHO market.

          For MS, W10 needs to be almost flawless for the next couple of years. Any major blunder and the restless natives may just bolt. There are too many people who hold their noses and use Windows but are not geeky enough to install a Linux distro.

        2. Mpeler

          Re: @Doctor Syntax - Business market?

          I was forced to dispose a perfectly functional Canon scanner because they felt it is more profitable to force me to buy a new one instead of just upgrading the driver for the existing one.

          One of the many reasons why I've kept a few machines on Windoze XP here. You could try your luck with *cough* Vista *cough* drivers, if there are any for your kit.

          Once UEFI, TPM, and (in)SecureBoot are locked down, it's gonna be a bl00dy mess out there. I predict that non-UEFI but EFI boards (e.g. Gigabyte's Hybrid-EFI, or whatever they call it) will be fetching interesting prices on that, erm, watery resale site...

          Have a beer. I need something to get my mind off of my mind (H/T "Shoe")...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Business market?

        "There's money to be made from home Linux users by selling the HW."

        Not so sure that applies at the moment for the big boys. It might change.

        If the big boys don't ship every PC with Windows on it, they lose their "most favoured customer" status and the price they pay for every Windows licence goes up significantly. Either explicitly or via loss of co-op marketing funds or some other back door.

        Also if the big boys don't ship a Windows PC rather than a Linux PC the big boys lose the opportunity to be paid to pre-install a range of delightful trialware and bloatware, which traditionally used to include trial versions of Office, Norton, etc. Not sure how that game plays now Office365 is the answer.

        If the channel, the retailers, don't stick "Best PC World recommends Vista 2015 Universe Edition" on their adverts, they have to pay for all their own advertising, whereas those magic words mean MS pay for a big chunk of it.

        There is no single Linux vendor in a position to play that kind of game. For which we should be grateful, but it has its occasional downsides, and this is one of them.

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: Business market?

          I also bet volume discounts can also be obtained by OEMs if they make secure boot mandatory on a model or two. If they do do this, it'd certainly be worth their while for the cheapest models.

      3. JEDIDIAH

        Re: Business market?

        There's little money to be made from home users in general.

        They don't buy the highly expensive professional flagship products that platform partisans like to fixate on.

        For a lot of users, there's really nothing keeping them on Windows but decades of pervasive FUD.

  19. ADRM

    Solitaire has Adverts on Windows 10

    Want to get rid of the ads? $1.49 each and every month or $10 each and every year. I have installed 10 Pro on one box as I want to keep up with current events. It dual boots with 7 Ultimate.

    You need a credit card on your Microsoft account so you can be charged for services. This is just the start. Me I'll probably end up with Mint 2020 after 7 EOL running Windows in a VM with no internet access.Hopefully Microsoft come to their senses before long.

    Hell most consumers never paid for virus protection and use stuff like shareware till it no longer works so I am not seeing this working as a pay as you go model.

    1. qwarty

      Re: Solitaire has Adverts on Windows 10

      Solitaire has displayed adverts for several years on Windows 8 so no change there with 10. A long term experiment from the Sinofsky era of arrogance to see if people will buy into the Windows store. Annoying.

    2. Mpeler

      Re: Solitaire has Adverts on Windows 10

      Scott Adams (aka Dilbert) saw this years ago:

  20. Michael Habel Silver badge

    For the life of the Device... or 2025

    Whichever comes first! I really doubt that this will be the "final" Windows.... Then again, it may well turn out to be. MicroSoft have to be negh-on delusional to think that they can force Joe Schmo into forking $99.95 a Year or 12 easy installments of $8.50 a Month to use this wonderful piece of Software. Just who do these Cats think they are Adobe, or something?!

  21. azaks


    Count how many times the terms "I can forsee" and "I suspect" are used in this article. Not a single fucking fact to support the clickbait title.

    Claiming that 2008 R2 must be a feature pack for 2008 rather than a new OS because of its name is just stupid. Why do they let this guy write for them?

  22. Sandtitz Silver badge

    Author fail

    "A user need not look past DirectX 11.1 as a prime example of encouraging users to migrate. DirectX 11.1 was released in early 2013, some six and a bit years before the January 2020 end of life for Windows 7. It was also an Xbox One exclusive so all those Xbox 360 users just got shoved off a cliff!"


    XBOX 360 was launched back in 2005 and the then rather powerful ATI graphics chip (with DX9 capabilities) inside doesn't have the capabilities to handle the requirements set for DX11. The GPUs from the same era do not have the latest OpenGL capabilities either, and no reasonable person should expect that.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows 8.2

    (AKA WIndows 10). It's better than WIndows 8 and Windows 8.1

    That's all you need to know. However, compared to Win7, it really does suck balls. It's chock full of crap you can't uninstall. (Xbox for fuck sake....)

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Cyber Essentials

    I thought the patch management section of the requirements smelled of Microsoft when a client asked if I could bring them into compliance as some of their new contracts were now requiring that.

  25. Ben Smith

    Everyone seems to imagine that this statement that "Windows 10" will be the "last" version of Windows is carved in stone somewhere.

    Ever heard of a company changing its mind ? "New" Coke may be remembered by the over 40s as an example of a company doing a 180, more exist.

    Microsoft has a "duty" to its shareholders to generate income. If the model they're relying on for revenue doesn't work, they will change it. I'm prepared to make a large bet that by 2025, we won't be running Windows 10.

    1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

      Rubbish. The real reason for the 'last version' mantra is that Microsoft management have run out of fingers. It's unlikely they'll have mutated to have more fingers by 2025, or that they'll think to use their toes.

      1. Mpeler

        Run out of fingers?

        That's because they've either got their fingers stuck in their ears, or somewhere else.

        Judging from their, erm, reception to feedback, I suspect their ears (and they've covered their eyes, facepalms, anyone?)...

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Come now, children, let's not fight over this!

    If Microsoft customers are willing to milked on a recurring base it's OK with me. Those who are not very warm to this perspective should go out and buy PC and/or motherboards that still allow you to disable UEFI SecureBoot. Then you can install/run Microsoft Windows 10 at will knowing that you can bail out.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Come now, children, let's not fight over this!

      Bollocks, they've gone and made OEM support of allowing Secure Boot to be disabled optional instead of mandatory as it was with Windows 8. That slipped passed me.

      I knew it. MS boiling the frog again. Privacy, secure boot, and control over your own computer. The fuckers.

    2. Mpeler

      Re: Come now, children, let's not fight over this!

      Those that disallow SecureBoot and UEFI are those without UEFI bios, in general, Award BIOS smaller than 64M should do the trick (e.g. Gigabyte's Hybrid-EFI BIOS, for those who are DESPERATE to have a > 2TB system disk - to which I say WHY????? unless you are saddled with a one-disk-only lappie or some such)...

      (beer here, here beer - now all I need is a decent baseball game.... Oh, hush, cricket and rounders fans :) )...

  27. Hoe

    Last of the Mo-Windows...

    Microsoft 2015: "Last ever Windows we won't do another!"

    Microsoft 2017: "Introducing Microsoft DOORS OS opening your world to new possibilites! :)

    Ok maybe not DOORS but point being last Windows doesn't have to mean last MS OS.

    1. Mpeler
      Big Brother

      Re: Last of the Mo-Windows...

      Speaking of Doors, this kinda popped into my head,

      Riders on the storm

      Riders on the storm

      Like 'the Ripper' on the loose,

      Bill Gates has cooked your goose

      Like a dog without a bone

      Your PC is now his own

      Riders on the storm.....

  28. bobgameon

    Hasn't Microsoft already said that Windows 10 will follow the same update cycle as previous versions of windows? 5 years and another 5 for the Long Term Service Branch.

    Windows as a service has also been explained that it refers to the way windows will be updated not the way it will be priced.

    Why this article was written is beyond me. Maybe to give people here another reason to switch to Linux.

    1. Mpeler

      M$ to explain won't take away the pain

      Typical marketing froo-fraw....

      "Apparently the dumb-$#!t users didn't understand it. We need to update/focus our message.

      Then they will accept what we are doing for to them."

      It's all about the message then, isn't it. Carly: "Perception is reality".

      (P.S. I heard her say it).

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'd rather pay upfront


    Don't believe it.

  30. Winkypop Silver badge

    So, Win7

    Is now the new Win XP.

    Hold and watch.

    1. jobi1

      Re: So, Win7

      I always knew Windows 7 would be clung onto just like XP was... XP Mk. 2 everyone!

      That said, personally, I like Windows 8.1 and 10, but the future does worry me a bit.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ps meet me at the back ally of this place and I will sell you windows xp

  32. Fihart

    Now I can say no.

    Granted, recent versions of Windows have been more reliable and included useful drivers. But, as other commentators have said, Linux is pretty viable now. In the past, every version I tried fell down on graphics or sound issues. Doubtless drivers could be found but usually not on the manufacturers' sites.

    Installed the very slim Peppermint Linux this year and everything worked on both the machines I put it on -- amazingly, including wifi. Still looking for scanner software and a better screengrab application. But ease of use, speed, pain-free updates and seeming stability means I can now look at making Linux my main OS. It's already preferable for internet access just because it boots much faster.

    Any Windows' improvements are not enough to justify the faff of installing and learning a vast new OS and its (doubtless) vast updates to fix the screwups inevitable in something so big

    I suspect that if they could step outside the feature-led marketing approach and produce a slimline version of Windows, Microsoft would actually gain some friends among the tech community.

  33. Defiant

    Binux Trolls

    "Windows 10 is the last version of Windows that will ever be released. "

    Last NT6.x you mean and please sort out your Binux trolls christ their annoying, anything with Windows or Microsoft gets trolled by the losers

  34. Saul Dobney

    Microsoft has realised the OS upgrade market is a fool's game. Vast quantities of money tipped into new shiny bits that, when the chips are down, no-one really wants to pay for. Microsft still makes the money on every time a new piece of tin is sold, old OS or new. And large numbers of different OS versions floating around just causes support and compatibility chaos. So basically they stop and save the money, fixes and drivers excepted.

    The core bits of money are then Office subscriptions, refinements of games/appstore and data portability (aka the cloud). By standardising the OS it makes it easier to interconnect devices without the compatibility problem - eg linking a phone as a controller to devices like xbox, home automation etc. The OS basically disappears other than as an enabler for instance for secure interconnection. Money comes per device still with the gamble that Microsoft can make interconnect easier and more secure than competitors.

  35. Phydeaux4

    "Pay once, use forever?" Really?

    It sees to me that once I've spent the $$$ for the software, there are other substantial costs to keeping it running...

    Despite one's best efforts to diligently run virus scans, defrag utilities, registry cleaners, and the like, entropy takes it's inevitable toll. Then, time to "FLATTEN & RELOAD" the system. I just don't tithe these payments to uSlop, but they're payments all the same.

    If the subscription model substantially reduced those costs, it might even be worth it. Pity it won't.

  36. LOW

    I think that everyone, here, has missed the point entirely.

    Ever heard of Jade Helm? No? It's a military exercise, going in 11 states of the USSA right now and it has a lot of Merkins jumping up and down like cats on a hot tin roof.

    Why? This thing is Win10 on steroids - it has this as its heart , apparently. The top brass presented the whole thing to Merkins as a training exercise for 1,300 special forces personnel. However, given the video coverage of the thousands of bits of serious hardware (like Abrams tanks and Howitzers) rolling into these states on trains, what? Are these guys being given hundreds of bits of kit each? Of course not - hence cats on hot tin roofs.

    Anyway, back to the IT, or should I say, AI. Jade is part of a suite of kit that takes input from social media, telephone and anything else that it can get hold of, so that it can make a decision.

    The request for that decision comes from a military commander, who feeds their objective into an ERP system. This then, apparently talks to the Jade 2 system, which then - being a quantum computer - considers all the possibilities at once and then feeds the battle plan back to the ERP system. The ERP system then schedules the whole lot and you can have it all at eight bells.

    The powers that shouldn't be, as Dick Cheney said, need "total information awareness". Who you are, what you're doing, who you're talking to and what you're thinking and they need it in real time.

    Don't worry, though, this thing doesn't "predict" pre-crime, it just "anticipates" it.

    The dominant knowledge domain, here is called GEOINT - geographic intelligence, you know, the stuff handled by what we call GIS.

    Now, if you think this stuff is just a Merkin deal, bear in mind that Putin (ex-KGB) is the head of Russia's geographical society.

    Last word: They have plugged this thing into armed drones and I saw a US General admit that, at first the system will make mistakes but he said that it does learn very quickly.

    More here

    The solution, it seems, to the New World Order (their term, not mine) is to get the hell offline.


    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: I think that everyone, here, has missed the point entirely.

      Stop smoking crack or you will see FEMA trailers rolling to all-american GAS CHAMBERS in no time. I grant you that there is dangerous talk of randomly starting a war with Iran or concentrating mooslims in merica into camps.

      Also learn what a Quantum Computer actually is. Start with "Quantum Computing Since Democritus".

    2. Mpeler
      Black Helicopters

      Re: I think that everyone, here, has missed the point entirely.

      Don't blame it on the 'mericans - the brits had it first - crime prediction software, cameras, microphones and speakers on poles.

      No, the point of Jade Helm (since you brought it up) is to get folks to accept Agenda21 and the concommitant police state, even though it's only "implied" by all the hardware present.

      The segregation of the various states into "pro", "con", and "leaning to/from" should be instructive.

      Indeed it's much more troubling than M$ pi$$ing around, but I digress...

  37. Camilla Smythe

    Ad Supported Solitaire

    Given I have been out of the Microsoft loop for a while I did not know that the WIN8 version came with Ads?? So the WIN10 version is also Ad supported. PFFT, Don't know what people are moaning about then...

    Just a moment. Are we not told elsewhere that WIN10 drops a UID, Unique Identifier, on all their customers as well as hoovering up all their data for the purposes, presumably, of providing behaviourally targeted advertising...?

    Not really my thing but I've just installed AisleRiot Solitaire. Is the Windows version that much better or more engaging? Presumably the powers that be will now have to prevent people installing Linux in a VM under Windows so they can get and Ad Free Fix of Solitaire.

    1. LOW

      Re: Ad Supported Solitaire

      Don't you get it? Didn't you read my post (the one before yours)? It's NOT about advertising, it's about profiling who you are and whether you're going to fit in to the society that the powers that shouldn't be have envisaged for themselves. Do a search on "Georgia Guidestones"

      Click the links I gave you. Investigate for yourself.

      Wake up.

      If nothing else, the military angle to this, that I outlined above, should be of serious concern to every network and server admin on the planet. On Win10, even their users' hard drives are available for inspection - by ANYONE, according to the End User License Agreement.

      This is insane and we all need to stop it now.

      It's bad enough that all their users corporate data and negotiations are going out over email in plain text but Jade Helm really takes the biscuit.

      Monetizing advertisements (and there's us with our ad blockers) is blatantly a Trojan horse.

      Go on, have a look at how Jade Helm works - but only if you want to take the red pill.

      1. rnturn

        Re: Ad Supported Solitaire

        Gloriosky... Jade Helm? Georgia Touchstones?

        I think you forgot to mention Chemtrails. Surely they're involved in this somehow?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: UID? How about GUID?

      "Are we not told elsewhere that WIN10 drops a UID, Unique Identifier, on all their customers"

      Isn't that as old as the hills as well?

      It's at least 15 years ago because I remember who I was working for when I first noticed the contents of the UID string contained 08-00-2B. 08-00-2B was the first half of the original MAC address range used by DEC kit, so it was easy to look a little further and match the MAC address with the UID on a variety of Window boxes.

      Maybe other folks noticed this too (Alan S?)

      Back in those days a MAC address was something considered unique around the world, hence its use in a GUID.

      It's also great for tracing a particular document back to a particular PC.

      Not so useful these days in the era of fake MAC addresses, but even back then it seemed more than a little undesirable to be able to associate a particular document with a particular user on a particular PC, without their informed consent.

      1. Mpeler
        Big Brother

        Re: UID? How about GUID?

        Yep, and why do you think they're so insistent that iPV6 is the "new black", as it were...

        And the iOT (put a sock in it, pedant) will make it even worse...

  38. Robert Heffernan


    How much money do they think the average person has? When OS releases were every few years, I was easily able to scrape the cash together for a one-off purchase. Now that they are moving to have to pay for every little update or some type of subscription where am I going to find the cash?

    It's not like every other corporate leech is attached to my wallet, fuck-it Food or Rent is not doing me a lot of good perhaps I can just ditch one of them. Hell, my entertainment budget is $15 a MONTH (and I am splitting that with my partner) for Netflix so I don't get my arse raped by the lawyers in Hollywood (I am in Australia btw, screw you High Court of Australia).

  39. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    "Dual-core, 2GB ram*, Win-10 Pro 32-bit, only Edge open with 2 tabs, fan roaring its head off continually, disk light duty cycle > 90%

    *Suspect this might be the culprit. Reminiscent of how slow my first Windows-3 machine was. It had 1/1000th of the RAM, 2MB. Nothing really changes."

    Did you just install it? I found when I installed 10 into a VM, it burned through alarming amounts of disk I/O and CPU time for quite a while doing whatever (I guess building search indexes, whatever the equivalent is of .NET ngen cache, maybe it installed some updates.) But once it finished doing this it seemed quicker than 7 in the limited testing I gave it. I haven't used it enough to comment on the UI or Edge.

    1. P. Lee

      >"Dual-core, 2GB ram*, Win-10 Pro 32-bit

      Is it way too smug to point at my Suse-13.2-i586 running KDE on a Pentium-m with 1.5G RAM?


      1. Mpeler

        Re: >"Dual-core, 2GB ram*, Win-10 Pro 32-bit

        That's WAAAAYYYY too much hardware for a poor little penguin to handle.....

        1. Mpeler

          Re: >"Dual-core, 2GB ram*, Win-10 Pro 32-bit

          Thumbdowner, you don't understand sarcasm, do you. Or are you an M$ Fanboi/gal?


      High IO on Win10

      It seems like any time you open the control panel in Win10 the IO goes crazy.

      I also run it in a VM.

  40. John Savard

    Not Too Nefarious

    Since at present - or, rather, in the past - I have to pay for a new version of Windows to get a new version of Direct X, making these upgrades something one has to pay for would not represent a change to a more expensive pricing model for Windows. I'll admit that being forced to accept updates has me worried about something much worse - that we'll have to keep paying to have it run at all after a certain time - but the possibilities the article suggests don't sound like something to be afraid of or upset about.

  41. Supa

    No free rires.

    Simple: Microsoft will make its money in the same way Bobba Fet makes money from giving Han Solo a free ride.

  42. Vetis

    another piece of clickbait with speculation and no real information.

  43. Bootneck

    I am a elderly PC user who has only had Microsoft OS on any of my PC's from XP to W8.1 and now I am very dubious about the new offering of W10. During the years of running a PC all home built has become more and more expensive as one has to have more and more security software and other vital software to buy and now I think it is time to move on to a Linux distro. After all these years of running Windows it is rather daunting to change to another type of OS but I have been investigating the multi various distros out there. The one that seems to fit the bill is Makulu 9 aero 64 bit, so I will download that on a spare HD and keep the drive with Windows 8.1 on it in case that I do not get on with Linux, any advice or comment would be very welcome.

    1. lorisarvendu


      It does look good. I wish I had a spare 64-bit PC to try it on.

    2. Chronicle

      Like you, I'm getting on in years (65 in 4 days). Before I retired in 2011 at age 61, I'd acquired a corporate version of XP Pro SP3 from my company. I've archived the disk's ISO file for possible future use (grin). I'm using Win7 now on one (soon to be 2) laptops. But that's probably as far as I'll go with a Microsoft OS. For me, personally, I see no practical use of Win8.1 or Win10. And I certainly see no use for fancy "touch-screen" tablets which are one cheeseburger away from suffering death by grease overload (grin).

      I'd love to migrate to a Linux distro. I really would. But only if I knew how to write my own software for that environment. There just isn't enough open-source development out there to provide the software I'd need to do the things I currently do with my Win7 system. So, until I breach that learning curve in software development, I suppose I'll remain a Microsoft OS hostage.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Software development: Windows vs Linux

        "if I knew how to write my own software for that environment. There just isn't enough open-source development out there to provide the software I'd need to do the things I currently do with my Win7 system."

        First, Happy Birthday. Second...

        What might those "things I currently do on Win7" be? A few details might produce a few suggestions, if anyone is still reading here. There are a great many areas of serious (and not so serious) software development where Linux (not Windows) is the obvious starting point.

        Some of the possibilities are multi-platform as well as free (e.g. Python) so you could test the water on Windows, then maybe try a dual-boot setup to see how you get on (or just acquire a Raspberry Pi 2 for £30 or so, if appropriate), and so on.

  44. lorisarvendu

    Good Lord, doesn't the Reg hire anybody to proof-read any more?

    "it's possible to see foresee"

    "They could be will be encouraged"

    It's just not enough to rely on the spell-checker, while ignoring the grammar checker, but these days it seems that's what the new breed of "journalists" do.

    Why not try reading the damn article before you publish it, guys?

  45. Andus McCoatover

    Gonna sy it.....

    ...oh, weep, Linux Fanboi that I am.....



    I love Windows 10? Yeps. I really do. Never thought I'd say that. I know it's unfashionable to say, But, yeah.

    (Linux Mint 17.1 on the pendrive, natch)

    Fair's fair. Credit where it's due. MIcrosoft have done a lot of work - yes, it's rough around the Edge...but I haven't yet felt an urge to install Firefox yet.

    Atmel Studio 6,2 works, Cadsoft Eagle (PCB s/w) works, Arduino IDE works, Notepad+ works, LibreOffice works, PicoScope 6 works, LTSpice works, Saleale Logic works.

    Haven't felt a burning need to download Minecraft, Angry Birds 2, PornoQueensFromHell yet. Update will follow, I'm sure.

    POINT IS (Sorry to shout, but...) It does what I want.


    OEM linux install...

    i build and customize desktop and mobile computers as a business...

    i havent installed a windows product for ~ 12 years...

    all of my customers get a shiny machine with a shiny new linux install...

    ...does everyone get the idea? ...


  47. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Stop the FUD - there is no subscription model

    "There was some confusion, however, when Microsoft's Terry Myerson started talking about Windows 10 "as a service." Did that mean that after that first year of free availability, Windows 10 would cost an annual fee?

    I asked Myerson for clarification after the presentation, and he confirmed that there will be no additional fees attached to Windows 10, whenever you buy it.

    Myerson clarified that Windows 10 users will still get free updates and support for the lifetime of the OS, exactly like past versions of Windows (like XP and Windows 7's Service Packs, for example).

    There's no subscription model for updates or support or continuing to use the OS. Myerson's reference to Windows "as a service" simply meant that Microsoft plans to update the OS with smaller, more regular updates rather than the big, chunky updates of past Service Packs.

    A year after Windows 10 is first available, it will no longer be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users. Microsoft will then sell Windows 10 the same way it has sold past versions of Windows. MS hasn't set a specific price yet, but Myerson said the price will likely be comparable to past versions of Windows. Windows 8 costs $120 on Amazon "

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Stop the FUD - there is no subscription model

      And in case you are wondering who Terry Myerson is, he is executive vice president of the new Windows and Devices Group (WDG). Before that, he led the Operating Systems Group responsible for Windows 10. Now he runs that plus associated devices.

  48. Hey. Presto!

    "Service packs as administrators of old knew them transmuted into distinct separate products at around the time Windows 2008 server became popular. The result? Windows Server 2008 and Windows Server 2008 R2 became separate products and you paid accordingly."

    Windows Server 2008 was based off the Vista codebase. Server 2008 R2 the Windows 7 codebase.

    "That didn't exactly happen on the client but there have been stirrings."

    Well it did, didn't it? Vista and 7.

  49. Adrian Midgley 1

    Pay never and use forever sound good?

    Since 1984, GNU.

  50. normal1


    Now it's use once to record the hard drive image and wipe it for Linux, and pay for Windows forever anyway?.

  51. Wightman

    What Short Memories You All Have

    Microsoft have not stopped selling operating systems. All this jabber about patches, linux and direct X is missing the bigger picture. Windows 10 is free as a damage limitation excercise. Microsoft have a year to stop it being worse than Windows 7 and a year to make it the most popular OS installed out there. After which it is no longer free. So all new PC's that are shipped will have to have a paid up copy of Win X, which you will also note is an interesting number to stick with i.e. OS X, WIN X...

    Microsoft are nobodies fool, despite massive evidence to the contrary i.e. Win 2000, Win Vista, Win 8.x.

    If they can get us to switch because it is free and runs the latest tech, they will suceed.

  52. Chris 155

    The same way it always has

    Microsoft will make money the same way it always has. It'll charge you for the initial version of Windows that goes on your PC and it'll charge business customers for support and software assurance.

    The only difference between now and before is that Microsoft has finally worked out that the cost of supporting old versions of Windows is higher than the money it makes from the very small percentage of people who actually pay to upgrade an existing device.

    How many people do you really know who have actually upgraded the Windows OS on their existing computer? How many people outside the tech industry? How many if we exclude Windows 95?

    I'd bet the answer to those questions is "Not many", "Even fewer" and "Almost none".

    Microsoft has never made any money out of selling OS upgrades to consumers because consumers never bought them. Plenty of people don't even pay for OSX upgrades and those have always been cheap. They have however spent a massive amount of money trying to patch old OS versions and ensure that their software is compatible with them.

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