Windows 10: A sysadmin speaks his brains – and says MEH

It's Windows 10 day. That means it's time for a completely biased and in-no-way-even-remotely-objective assessment of Windows 10. The internet is filled with people trying to act all objective about Microsoft and Windows 10, and explain what it all "means." I'm forgoing all of that this round. This review is not from the …

[irm]

If you're lucky/unlucky enough to have a laptop or monitor with a 4K screen, then Windows 10 makes sense over Windows 7. A lot of the HiDPI stuff is still seriously broken, even with Windows 10, but it's a lot better than it's been in past Windows versions.

[K]

Have a +1 .. Windows 10 got much better scaling on 4k. The tools down voting obviously haven't tried either.

[Ken Hagan]

"Windows 10 got much better scaling on 4k. The tools down voting obviously haven't tried either."

Or, er, perhaps they have? Win10 hasn't even got most of the Control Panel snap-ins scaling properly. (Oi! Microsoft, all you need to do is set a GUID in the manifest, re-link, and do a visual inspection. You were the ones who changed the rules -- about 8 years ago. Pull yer fingers out and get on with it.) Still, it's all supposed to be lovely Metro apps going forwards, so what does it matter if the old desktop users get shitty service, eh?

[K]

He never said it was perfect - just better!

[jaime]

Well I guess you guys haven't been using Windows 8.1 either since that's the first Windows OS to have any sort of decent 4k support.

[eJ2095]

Bugger me a 4k screen on a laptop

Hi def Pron eh

[MacGyver]

I don't feel lucky.

I will agree, however, I now simply have 4k of eye-searing white surrounding all those better scaled text areas.

Saw VII should have a scene where some poor bastard is forced to stare at a Windows 10 File Explorer window at full brightness.

[hplasm]

Cortana-

"Microsoft's creepy doll."

Excellent.

[keithpeter]

Re: Cortana-

@hplasm

Yes, Mr Pott can coin a phrase.

Watch out for the teddy...

http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/chapter_6_the_teddy.html

[wdmot]

Re: Cortana-

As long as you don't realise too late that it's not the doll but you inside the box that you just threw in the fireplace...

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: Cortana-

And there's a creepy doll

That always follows you

It's got a ruined eye

That's always open

And there's a creepy doll

That always follows you

It's got a pretty mouth

To swallow you whole

[Anonymous Coward]

This says it all really

Microsoft's spying on you is pretty awful. Windows 10 calls home with essentially every last thing you do and search for by default. Finding and disarming all the different ways Microsoft spies on you is difficult at best, and a futile game of whack-a-mole at worst.

There not a lot more to be said.

Sorry MS but you (and you pals at CIA/NSA/GCBQ etc) have gone too far.

I'd really like the CEO to come out and say (in plain English) why they are doing this. Cut the crap about improving the user experience. That bullshite won't wash any more.

Perhaps if we can hack their feed of data and send on kitten pics they might get the idea that we do not like this. Otherwise, I'm sorry Microsoft, you have lost me as a customer. When my MSDN comes up for renewal I'll say ta-ta and good riddance.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: This says it all really

but as the man said "It is perhaps not fair to project the experiences of participating in the open beta onto the release version "

And it isn't. Under development conditions, the developers need as much info as possible on what you are running and how it goes wrong. Post release, it's down to those who actually chose to participate in feedback (forget not to tick the right box during setup)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: This says it all really

But you can't turn off feedback, go to Settings/Privacy/Feedback & diagnostics and see it yourself

[Triggerfish]

Re: This says it all really

Actually post release, if they still have all the creepy options turned on, I would ask why am I paying for it?

Either its free and I am being monetised by you selling my personal details to advertisers, fair enough.

Or I have paid a fair chunk of cash for it and thats where you got my money, now sod off trying to gouge more out of me by selling me and my personal life.

[sabroni]

Re: I would ask why am I paying for it?

It's a "free upgrade" if you do it within a year.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: This says it all really

"12 thumbs up & 12 thumbs down "

I am Marmite. Which is strange - when I've gotten a big response in the past, it's eitherbeen a host of thumbs down or of thumbs up.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: This says it all really

They are trying to out Google Google.

they realise Bing is utter Sh*t and think if they have ALL the data from all windows ten machines they may be able to improve search

Data is Power.

[Marcus Fil]

Re: This says it all really

Data are Power.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: This says it all really

Chuck in secureboot, TPM 2.0, forced updates etc this isn't Windows 10 but is instead Windows 1984.......

I'm laying bets that the next CEO at Microsoft will be called O'Brien.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: This says it all really

Do I sense a thoughtcrime there citizen?

[Naselus]

Re: This says it all really

"Sorry MS but you (and you pals at CIA/NSA/GCBQ etc) have gone too far."

You mean the pals Microsoft refused to hand data over to, despite an extortionate daily fine? I'm not thrilled about Win 10 phoning home about everything, but credit where it's due - and it's not like you don't get exactly the same 'service' from Google and Apple products, both of whom are notably less interested in telling the NSA where to stick it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: This says it all really

You mean the pals Microsoft refused to hand data over to, despite an extortionate daily fine?

You say that as if you think Microsoft does that for your benefit rather than their own. If so, you haven't been paying attention over the last couple of, well, decades really - MS only ever does things in their own interest. If that aligns with yours it will naturally be marketed as "for your benefit" but you should not confuse marketing with motivation.

The only reason MS is refusing to hand over data is because that would be game over for any of their hosting services for EU customers, just when they are starting to get some traction. AWS got EU approval because it encrypts (well, the storage part does), but MS has yet to produce anything plausible in the way of crypto or security that wasn't found to be deficient even before it was put in production. Thus, if your data is in the hands of MS it is at risk of uncontrolled access by US government entities, irrespective of where it is hosted. That's not fun if you're in the EU or Canada because it causes especially big companies legal compliance headaches.

This has partly to do with the leverage that exists from the US onto all their subsidiaries, as a US based HQ is deemed to have enough power to command data provision, even if that is an illegal act by the subsidiary in the country where it is transported an/or stored.

Mind you, this is not just a Microsoft problem, you wouldn't believe how much money is spent on lobbying Brussels to weaken EU privacy requirements. That's cheaper and quicker than fixing the US legal situation which is frankly a mess (ironically caused by the same players, so phrases like "hoist by their own petard" come to mind almost unbidden), and your interests don't matter here..

[apostleofregister]

Re: This says it all really

Do they have an option for data to be encrypted such that they are unable to access it even for recovery purposes? If that's a feature they've introduced then they've won my respect and to some extent my trust. Otherwise I don't see how Google and Apple being just as bad is an argument in Microsoft's favour since they're not the only options besides Windows. GNU+Linux is just as easy to install and use these days and with the exception of the odd program like Photoshop there are perfectly good (often better) alternatives. Not only that but in most cases a fully-free distro with no proprietary code at all, not even binary blobs (firmware mostly) in the kernel, works out of the box. I'm rocking a pretty new i74790k quad core with a NVIDIA GTX 970 and it works with no proprietary software at all. I do install the proprietary NVIDIA driver on this machine though because it does work better with high-end games, but for most people's needs it's not necessary. But I digress. If you want peace of mind and software freedom that can't just be taken away whenever the vendor decides they want to, go with GNU+Linux. :)

[Harmless Drudge]

Re: This says it all really

Agree 100%. In fact, I'M PASSING on this and advising my family to do so also. Microsoft has had the last penny it's going to get from me, for a very long time, maybe ever.

[apostleofregister]

Re: This says it all really

I'd like to formally extend your welcome to the Free and Open Source Software community! :) GNU+Linux isn't just for ultra-nerds anymore, and I can honestly say that after the minor adjustment period as I found alternative programs to the proprietary ones I used in Windows I've never looked back. No forced updates, no waiting for updates before you can login and actually use your computer, almost no risk of a virus (15 years and counting and I still haven't ever had one turn up in a scan), absolutely no cost, I can give my friends copies without being an outlaw, I can customize my working environment with a fairly long list of different desktop managers and make most of them look almost however I want them to with no extra overhead (In Windows I had to install 3rd party theming programs and they eat up system resources like RAM and CPU cycles), no need to surf around the web to get all my programs separately as they're already in a repository so I can just pick them out of a list in a category and install as many programs as I like at once, when I do update my programs get updated along with my operating system unless I mark them not to be upgraded for some reason, and I don't even have to just get used to some corporate committee's idea of what my User Interface should look like and how it should work, it's all how I choose it to be because it's MY home, where I work and play and have my being. So welcome, and be free and take your ambrosia here friend! P.S. Don't use Ubuntu, it's the only one to do it but they have this creepy "send everything you search for to Amazon" thing going on by default. Linux Mint is really comfortable without any customizations at all and is basically Ubuntu minus the creepy feature, and although it does have some binary blobs in the kernel you need not worry about that until you're familiar enough with Linux to swap it for a fully free kernel (it isn't hard anyhow).

[GX5000]

Re: This says it all really

I'll have to support it at one point so two boxes went from 8.1 to 10.

Replacing my OS's with a OS as a Services pisses me off so much that.......ugh.

No terminals for me thank you, I don't want to connect to big brother and let him watch

everything I do, bloody perverts, which is why my cellphone is a cellphone, clamshell and no smarts.

Main Boxes will stay WIN7 FireFox/Opera12.17 and whatever version of Linux feels right (Mint at the moment). Maybe M$ thinks the public will just let themselves be run over, maybe they're right (or hopefully this will be Vista again).

[apostleofregister]

Re: This says it all really

Mint is lovely. Come the day Win8.1 is no longer supported I'm feeling confident (for the first time in 15 years) that there will be a shift in Microsoft's dominance of the desktop market, and the main stumbling block to attracting more users to Linux will finally be overcome, game devs will have a big enough target audience to aim their sights on Linux! :D

Who can argue with an OS that gives you these freedoms set in legal stone:

Freedom 0: The freedom to run the program for any purpose.

Freedom 1: The freedom to study how the program works, and change it to make it do what you wish.

Freedom 2: The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor.

Freedom 3: The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements (and modified versions in general) to the public, so that the whole community benefits.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: This says it all really

"Windows 10: it's only a little bit crap. And really, that's better than we could have hoped for."

Really ? I expected much more and much less and they let this Frankenstein out into the World to try and force us into Services and Subscriptions over Software and Upgrades.

I may need to keep a box handy to support those who join the flock, and my WIN8.1 VM, but WIN10 on one of my Home or Work Production boxes ?!

No thanks, I hope M$ reaps the rewards for its final sell out.

[Marco van de Voort]

win-i enter now settings instead of control panel

I'm also just playing, and I don't care much about the general UI, for me the startmenu disappearance was never the issue the media made it to be.

But I found one strike against win10 in my book, windows-I + enter in win8 opens control panel (which is then navigable with cursor keys in win8), but in win10 it opens metro based settings.

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10.

It's better than Windows 8.

That is all.

[king of foo]

Diarrhoea.

It's better than Windows 8.

That is all.

[Preston Munchensonton]

Microsoft Bob > Windows 8

Fuck Microsoft.

[Anonymous Coward]

Damning with faint praise.

Hardly a ringing endorsement.

So, to conclude: "It's not as shite as Windows 8, a little bit better that Windows 7 and with some third party software to paper over the cracks, its actually quite usable."

This is a shocking state of affairs for a company with the experience and size of Microsoft that after all this time, they still can't make an operating system that people actually want to use, and that the best that can be said about it is that it isn't as shockingly bad as it could have been."

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's sum it up

Thusly: If you're on Windows 7, unless you need one of the few new things added to Windows 10 like DirectX 12 or somewhat improved but still not working HiDPI support, you should stick with Windows 7. If you're on Windows 8, you should upgrade tomorrow because anything is better than Windows 8.

[Groaning Ninny]

As another sysadmin...

I love two improvements introduced with W8, which are still in W10:

* File history. It's no Time Machine, but it really does a great job.

* A far better task manager.

The former was enough to get me to install W8 on my home PC, once I realised how Classic Shell sorted out the UI issues.

So why use W10 instead of W8?

I've only installed W10 today, so can't say much aside from:

* UI

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: As another sysadmin...

once I realised how Classic Shell sorted out the UI issues.

yes windows 8 can be made to work with start8 or classic shell and i believe windows 10 can be tamed the same way but why do we need to install 3rd party software just to get a NEW OS to a partially usable state. wondering what version of windows will be out when support for win7 finishes or should i start learning Linux, ( uphill struggle teaching all my users to learn it as well :-( )

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: As another sysadmin...

"wondering what version of windows will be out when support for win7 finishes or should i start learning Linux,"

I'll probably put W10 on a spare PC as an update to W7 - just to see for myself. Can always revert to the W7 system image archive if necessary. Probably not try W10 until early 2016 to be sure it's getting a fair chance.

At the moment too much of my invested development is dependent on Windows not breaking it. The MS problem work-rounds are getting too inefficient - root cause fixes will be better.

If W7 End of Life is 2020 then that gives me 5 years to transition to Unix - and like Woodstock still have time to learn to play the piano.

[WylieCoyoteUK]

Re: As another sysadmin...

Actually, some Linux distros are easier to learn than win10

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: As another sysadmin...

...and most of stuff in control panel for windoze are there in Linux in a 'settings' app, instead of editing some user.conf or whatever in the raw.

I haven't touched linux in 12 years, sorry.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: As another sysadmin...

why do we need to install 3rd party software just to get a NEW OS to a partially usable state

It's been that way ever since people developed anti-virus software. It's the same principle of ignoring intelligent design, just extended a bit further..

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: As another sysadmin...

Actually, Windows 8.1 was good enough to run and watch all my 4k porn and use latest Adobe software with HiDPI properly so really not as bad as W8 which didn't let you bypass the metro screen on startup.

[fung0]

Re: As another sysadmin...

* A far better task manager.

Much better still: Process Explorer - ironically, an independent project by someone who is now a Microsoft employee. And it doesn't even require a complete OS update. Amazing.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx

[Yugguy]

"You'll get used to it"

No doubt some pillock will bob on here and say "you just need to get used to it."

They do it whenever something newer but crapper than the one before comes along. Yes TomTom GO6000 I'm looking at you.

NO son, I don't want to get used to it. You'll get used to it and like it because you don't know any better.

I've had better and I want it back.

[Triggerfish]

Re: "You'll get used to it"

Bugger that, after a few years of using command line on unix boxes, using vax, and having experience with windows in its many flavours including ME, the average OS should at least be something I can delve into, windows 8 should have been ok need to get used it but it'll be usable and same same enough; instead well its been a long time since I swore at an OS but win 8 deserved it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "You'll get used to it"

Hell, I swear at my Win7 system at least once per day.

[fung0]

Re: "You'll get used to it"

Me too. But I found Win8 raised that to about once per minute.

[Luiz Abdala]

Re: "You'll get used to it"

Ok, tough time with that Windows ME.

In fact, most of the UI was ok, but the machine under it...

So, Windows 10 is the polar opposite of ME. Lousy interface, laid over solid runtime?

[Pirate Dave]

Re: "You'll get used to it"

@ Yugguy : Sorry I can only give you one upvote, I'd give you my whole day's quota if El Reg would let me.

[Kubla Cant]

I prefer to not have to fight Microsoft to keep my computer from rebooting and annihilating all my open applications

Why does Windows do this? My Linux systems seem to install about two updates per week, and rarely have to reboot. When they do, you have the option to defer the restart. And what's the deal with Windows applications that require you to shut down other running programs before installation, and then demand a reboot afterwards?

[mythicalduck]

Both of these are due to the way Windows "locks" files that are in use. If you run a program on Windows, you can no longer delete the EXE file; so when you are updating or installing something, and it wants to update an existing shared library, it has to get you to quit all the programs so it can release the file locks.

Linux doesn't lock files just because it's running, which is why they can have updates applied without rebooting for the most part

I always believed that this behaviour was introduced in Windows to try and prevent viruses modifying system files, but I can't remember why I came to think that, and can't find any citation to back it up

[Anonymous Coward]

Almost. Both systems will open the file in use and prevent it being removed whilst in use.

Unix-like operating systems will however (generally) allow the copy on disk to be replaced. When this happens, the file is removed from the file system, however if any program has the current file in use the space is not (yet) reclaimed, and the running program sees it's original file. Any new program will see the new file. If the running program is restarted, it will see the new file.

This is why you "unlink" rather than deleting files in Unixland - the file is not deleted until all links are removed *and* the file is closed.

So, Windows will give you an error (cannot overwrite), Unix will replace the file without disturbing the running programs.

[Ken Hagan]

Rebooting after updates

"Why does Windows do this?"

Essentially because of one bad call back in the late 80s plus one ever-present constraint on MS that doesn't apply to Linux. Oh ... and the fact that MS can't be arsed to fix it.

The bad call was Win32's design choice to map executables into the address space rather than copying them. This meant that the underlying file remained "in use" until every stopped using it. In the case of widely used DLLs, the only realistic way to force that stop was to reboot the system. The saving was only ever minimal and would have been a saving in the system page file rather than real RAM in any case and this design choice clearly could have been made the other way. (UNIX does it differently.)

The constraint is that MS caters for the closed source market. A new release of Windows cannot break existing applications, or else no-one will upgrade. Since MS can't fix badly behaved applications from third parties (who may no longer exist), they have to maintain the semantics of bad design choices from several decades ago. You can be sure that there are widely-used applications out there that would be broken if it were possible to upgrade an executable file (particularly a DLL) while it is in use. (Amongst other things, it opens the possibility of having two versions of the same program or library running at once and they might share data with each other.)

Some other OSes have this constraint, too, but Linux doesn't. In fact, Linux had (is this still the case?) a reputation for introducing gratuitous breakage from one kernel version to another precisely to pressurise driver vendors into open-sourcing their drivers so that Linus and his friends could keep them running long after the original vendor lost interest.

In the case of system DLLs, which are the over-whelming cause of needing a system reboot after Windows Updates, I could imagine a simple EXE header flag that fixes the problem. Flags already exist to copy (rather than map) an executable if that EXE is on a removable or network drive. MS have never bothered to add a third such flag for "just copy, always, ffs" but if they ever did then the problem would largely go away. (You'd still be unable to fix old third-party stuff, but Windows Updates rarely touch third-party stuff anyway, for obvious reasons.)

[Malcolm 1]

Re: Rebooting after updates

Interesting theory, but probably wrong. Windows can quite happily achieve what you describe by renaming the original file but retaining the handle. The most plausible reason is that you might have API versioning problems between different applications (or even the same application which late links to dlls as required, although should be mitigated by the SxS cache these days): See this article by Raymond Chen: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2008.11.windowsconfidential.aspx

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Rebooting after updates

Interesting example, but it really documents how flawed the Microsoft implementation of shared libraries was in the first place. Take the example of A.dll and B.dll - the whole point is the API should be stable no matter if you have updated A and not B - the example that they need to be matched libraries shows Microsoft got it wrong. Likewise with the OLE examples - if you are changing the data types/message passing in a way that makes the new version incompatible YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.

[Stevie]

Re: Rebooting after updates

"In fact, Linux had (is this still the case?) a reputation for introducing gratuitous breakage from one kernel version to another "

And people wonder why the desktop uptake was so slow and limited to the Expert User.

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux desktop uptake

The "gratuitous breakage" for drivers with kernel updates is irrelevant to Linux's desktop success, because vendors like Redhat hide that detail from you. A typical user is not going to download a new kernel from kernel.org and compile it and run into this. They'll get updates from Redhat, which maintain the same APIs within a major version precisely to avoid this problem.

Linux hasn't been successful on the desktop because it doesn't run Windows programs, which is important when Windows is starting with desktop monopoly of 95% (now down closer to 90% due to OS X growing share) Where Linux is seeing some slight uptake on the desktop (Chrome laptops) is where the customer base has no legacy Windows programs they want to run. The typical Chrome customer uses it like a tablet with a keyboard - it is used for content consumption, not content creation.

[Chika]

Why does Windows do this? My Linux systems seem to install about two updates per week, and rarely have to reboot.

Actually, there's a slight difference. It isn't that you rarely need to reboot, it's just that you rarely get forced to reboot. The difference is that Linux (well, most distros I've come across) has the latest bits installed to disc but leave the current version in memory. If you can force the offending package out of memory so that it can reload, then fine. Chances are, however, that the system will not grind to a halt if you simply do nothing.

When they do, you have the option to defer the restart.

Much like Windows 7 and its predecessors. It seems as if successive Windows releases since W7 have not actually been upgrades at all. If all that can be said of W10 is "Meh", then why bother upgrading?

[Phil_Evans]

Because in 2 years' time when you may be looking at a new device, the OS will not be supported. Here are some other great reasons you should upgrade:

1) Graphics for a new PC or your favourite soundcard and other (then deemed to be :-) ) 'legacy devices' will not work properly.

2) The platform will be un-supported and all your mates will be ragging you endlessly for lugging around a laptop.

3) You will have a virtual desktop for work since you can't be trusted with all your fiddling

4) You will be on the same OS as your Dad (See 2) )

5) Windows 10 is higher than Windows 7 and that in itself makes it better

6) Someone ate your cheese

[GregC]

I don't use VPN's so that side doesn't bother me, but the forced auto updates and Digital Creepy Doll (nice one Trevor!) are enough to keep me on Win7, along with the general awfulness of the UI in 10*

Win 7 is supported for another ~5 years, that will keep me going for now until either MS make Windows more palatable, or the last few things keeping me from switching full time to Linux change.

*I know Classic Shell fixes much of this, but I do object in principle to having to use 3rd party software to restore things to something sensible

[Ken Hagan]

"Win 7 is supported for another ~5 years, ..."

Not really. Win7 doesn't support SHA2-signing in the kernel and CAs are increasingly unwilling to issue SHA1 certs, so you *will* start finding that the new printer, camera, scanner, whatever that you want to plug into the box doesn't have a Win7 driver.

Also, support doesn't mean fixes for broken stuff. It means patches for non-ignorably-bad security vulnerabilities.

Also, Win8 falls out of support next January on the grounds that Win8.1 was free. There is every chance that MS might eventually make a similar announcement for Win7. This would cost them nothing and save them the burden of solving the above problems.

I don't expect Win7 to be a serious option beyond 2017 or so. Anyone running an enterprise with a lot of Win7 boxes should be looking *very* seriously now about how, not when, they are going to migrate them. Fortunately, as Trevor says, Win10 with Classic Shell on top is just about usable.

[Dan 55]

SHA-2 was added to Windows 7 autumn last year.

[Preston Munchensonton]

Specifically:

"Availability of SHA-2 Hashing Algorithm for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2"

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/security/2949927.aspx

[Ken Hagan]

Thanks. MS actually pulled that update and didn't issue a replacement until this year: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/security/3033929.aspx

but I stand corrected. Apologies for the FUD but we hit this problem at work around Christmas and reluctantly concluded that Win7 was on life-support, but the re-issue makes using Win7 feasible again until the official end-of-life ... whenever that turns out to be.

[John Brown (no body)]

"Anyone running an enterprise with a lot of Win7 boxes should be looking *very* seriously now about how, not when, they are going to migrate them."

Most of my customers are Local Authorities, Universities, NHS and the like. Most of them, Local Authorities and NHS in particular, have only just finished (or are STILL) migrating to Win7 from XP. No way in hell are they going to even consider migrating for some years to come. Especially if MS is slurping more user data than ever and pushing "local" data towards the "cloud" since that will require very, very careful consideration in relation to the DPA implications.

[fung0]

Most of my customers are Local Authorities, Universities, NHS and the like. Most of them, Local Authorities and NHS in particular, have only just finished (or are STILL) migrating to Win7 from XP.

An important point. Microsoft still makes more money off its enterprise business than from individual users. So Win7 (not to mention XP) support will have to continue to some extent.

By the way, I noticed the other day on the NASA channel that Mission Control still uses Windows XP. (Some joke about this not being 'rocket science' would be appropriate here, but none occurs to me.)

Anyone running an enterprise with a lot of Win7 boxes should be looking *very* seriously now about how, not when, they are going to migrate them.

Right now, Microsoft seems to be trying very hard to make sure my next OS migration is to Linux. If I were an enterprise, I'd have switched some time ago.

[TRT]

Colourful invectives

That's more or less how I'd describe the retro ZX Spectrum colour scheme that Microsoft seem to have forced on users with Metro Tiles.

[MikeeMiracle]

What about 8.1?

I have been using Windows 8 / 8.1 since they came out and I have to say, going back to Windows 7 is like trying to run in water...7 is soo bloated and slow compared to Windows 8 / 8.1 that I can't figure out why anyone would still be using Windows 7 unless they had to.

[Grikath]

Re: What about 8.1?

likewise some people were happy with ME/Vista.

I guess there's a strong streak of masochism in some people.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: What about 8.1?

BTW 1 post • joined 29 Jul 2015

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: What about 8.1?

How about this one for a reason?

Perhaps the speed is less important if you don't have to fight that awful Tiled Interface?

I find the 'Modern' (sic) interface an unalduterated POS. That's my personal opinion. This is probably because I'm an old codger with only 42 years of experience in the IT Industry.

As has been clearly said in this thread, there is something fundameltally wrong with the OS if you have to add something like Classic Shell to even make it half usable for people who don't use a touch screen.

Again, this is my personal rant so it does not count in the grand scheme of things.

[Sebby]

Re: What about 8.1?

>>> As has been clearly said in this thread, there is something fundameltally wrong with the OS if you have to add something like Classic Shell to even make it half usable for people who don't use a touch screen.

I agree, but if you are destined to do that anyway, for whatever reason, then why not use Win8.1? OP is right, IMO; going back to 7 after 8.1 feels like volunteering to have your teeth pulled out without gas. So fussy and mediocre. It's incredible, as others have observed, that the best reason to recommend something crap is that it could be worse, but there it is: either mediocre Win7 or super-spy no-more-updates-control Win10.

Thanks Trevor for the write-up. Win10 isn't for me yet. I think Win8.1 is where I'll be. It may be suboptimal for desktop users, but until M$ learn to listen to their customers and give them what __THEY__ want, then I'll just have to make the best of a bad job.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: What about 8.1?

"Perhaps the speed is less important if you don't have to fight that awful Tiled Interface?"

Yes. When Windows 95 came out I don't recall anyone complaining about the start menu. For most users used to Win3.1 or even DOS, it was a revelation that made using the computer better and easier for average users and probably reduced training/re-training time and costs. The concept if the not the aesthetics barely changed right through 98/98se/Me/Vista/XP/7 and everyone was at least relatively happy.

I've only seen one site running Windows 8 with the default TIFKAM "menu" abomination. It was a school and when I asked why they'd not installed a 3rd party menu to get "start" back, she told me all about how wonderful TIFKAM was and how "easy" it was to scroll through 5 screens of tiles to get to all the programs. Poor kids!! TIFKAM is for tablets and phones. Desktops tend not to have touch screens. Even Apple for all their control freakery and standardisation realised that mobile and desktop are different markets.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: What about 8.1?

It's interesting how almost every post with a hint of criticism toward MS in general or Window 10 in particular has at least one down vote.

I'm guessing there are a number of paid MS astroturfers out there with the specific mission of countering all criticism of MS. I suppose El Reg ought to feel flattered that MS see the site as some sort of threat that must be countered.

[fung0]

Re: What about 8.1?

I find the 'Modern' (sic) interface an unalduterated POS. That's my personal opinion. This is probably because I'm an old codger with only 42 years of experience in the IT Industry.

The really serious problem with Modern/Metro/TIFKAM is that it's not just a UI - it's essentially a new mobile OS that's been stapled onto desktop Windows. A new and very scary OS called UWP (formerly WinRT), which tries to turn Windows into an iOS-like 'walled garden,' limiting what 'apps' can do, and limiting where you can buy them to just one place: Microsoft's own Windows Store. If UWP catches on, it would also accomplish something that Microsoft has wanted for years: making WinXP and Win7 (as well as Win8x) truly obsolete. Win32 support is not only an annoying expense, it no longer fits the Microsoft corporate agenda.

UWP should have been a separate OS, launched to sink or swim on its own merits. Microsoft is trying to leverage the vast Windows user base to give it an undeserved leg-up.

Microsoft's stock response to any criticism of UWP is: "Don't worry, you can still run Win32 software." True... for now. But, meanwhile, Microsoft's relentless message to developers is "UWP is the future of Windows development!" All the bundled apps in Windows 10 have been converted to UWP equivalents - even IE has been replaced by Edge. This is a one-way street I'm not willing to go down. Win32 is old and creaky, perhaps, but it's the only reason most of us still use Windows.

[Luiz Abdala]

Re: What about 8.1?

Is there anything, at all, preventing me of just keeping the whole windows 7 interface, including but not limited to Aero Glass, in a Windows 10 runtime?

I don't give a rat's ass what is running below it... be it a virtual machine inside windows 10, be a linux pretending to be windows, I just want all my programs, all my icons, exactly where they are now in this Win 7 setup. Did I mention Aero Glass?

[Trollslayer]

How about Windows Server 2012?

The single CPU version is £155 so can we have a a review by the author as a Windows 7 replacement?

Very good article by the way.

[Zot]

Meh?

It's supposed to be boring, it's a fracking operating system!

That's all it is.

My main concern - is the release version going to leak personal data?

It would be just too easy for MS to leave the debugging streams on, because they can. And how long will it be before the scandal breaks and we get pro MS types blogging, "well I've got nothing to hide, so I don't care..."

MS would be in a lot of shit if they get found out though, surely?

[Mystic Megabyte]

Re: Meh?

It seems to have been designed to leak. Read this, it is taking a while to load the page at present, maybe a lot of folk are realising how bad the situation actually is.

https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Meh?

Folks, read the linked privacy and services agreements. Anywhere, any time, any Microsoft product somehow involved, in complete detail. And it doesn't apply just to Windows 10.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/default.aspx

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/servicesagreement/default.aspx

[Hero Protagonist]

4000 browser tabs

"I currently have more than 4,000 browser tabs open"

FFS why???

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: 4000 browser tabs

Agreed, 4,000 bookmarks fine, 4,000 bookmarks organised into categories so you can open each category in tabs fine, 4,000 tabs open at one time... I doubt the brain can even remember what tabs are open and that's not the only memory problems you'll have (waste of RAM/resources all that sat in the background running JS/Flash and what not).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: 4000 browser tabs

If you want an example of the need to open 4000 tabs just pop over to one of those porn sites that like to "help you" by opening up 20 new tabs every time you click the close window button .....

[Caustic tWit]

Re: 4000 browser tabs

AC, you seem most knowledgeable on this twenty tabs thing.

[JakeMS]

Re: 4000 browser tabs

Indeed! Why anyone would need more than say 5 to 10 tabs open at a time is beyond me.

/me quietly hides my browser with 34 open tabs

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: 4000 browser tabs

4037 at present. No sarcasm.

For every article I am currently researching and/or writing there is a browser window open with potentially huge numbers of tabs. I don't have to track all tabs; only what each window in the stack's "topic" is.

I have a window for communitcation/evangelism (read: twitter and blogs)

I have a window for Path of Exile related tomfoolery

I have a window for multimedia (read: youtube) that I periodically listen to/watch.

These are all "living" windows. The tabs change frequently as things are opened and closed. Bookmarks don't cut it. Entire windows full of tabs - sometimes hundreds of tabs - will be closed all at once as soon as the relevant article for that topic is done.

I'm a writer. And I write for you lot. That requires absolutely stupid amounts of research. Commentards are vicious, remorseless internet piranhas that enjoy nothing better than tearing writers' very souls apart for the smallest mistake.

So: no sarcasm. 4000+ tabs.

And this 2011 Alienware MX18 just fucking delivers. Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! And if you think that's torturing a system, you should see what I'm doing to the Broadwell Xeon I'm testing.

Oh wait, you will, because I'm writing that review right...about....>clickty<

[David 132]

Re: 4000 browser tabs

Commentards are vicious, remorseless internet piranhas that enjoy nothing better than tearing writers' very souls apart for the smallest mistake.

Aw, shucks. Stop it. You're making me blush.

I'm writing that review right...about....>clickty<

Typo! You probably meant to write >clicky<! That invalidates your entire viewpoint and article! Fail!

Seriously, though. Great article. Thank you, Trevor.

I think the consensus characterisation of Windows 10 seems to be "nourishing soup, with occasional bits of turd floating in it, but less of them than Windows 8.x".

[fung0]

Re: 4000 browser tabs

For every article I am currently researching and/or writing there is a browser window open with potentially huge numbers of tabs. I don't have to track all tabs; only what each window in the stack's "topic" is.

I'm in much the same situation. I'm working on several articles, plus several other longer-term projects, plus a bunch of personal stuff. At a quick count, I have 4 Cyberfox windows open, with a total of 791 tabs in 72 tab groups. Many of those tabs are in an 'unloaded' state, but just clicking on them in-place is a whole lot faster and more natural than pulling up a bookmark. I have 37 add-ons installed, to help me manage all this stuff (and, of course, keep me reasonably secure). In particular, I use Session Manager to save inactive project windows, and there are maybe a half-dozen of these that I might pull up on any given day.

Obviously, I'm still far short of your 4,000 mark! But it's a big Internet out there. Browsers that work best with about 4 tabs (like IE and Edge) are great for my 97-year-old Mom. People who work with information need more power and more features than any browser offers at present.

[Geschnutz]

Re: 4000 browser tabs

While I agree that 4000 browser tabs is excessive, I can't say it won't happen to me someday too. As it is, my laptop is old-and-slow enough that it crawls when I have as few as thirty or thirty-five open (and a similar number of open apps in the Taskbar).

That said, my phone is much more powerful, and right now I have well over 100 Chrome tabs open there, some of which have been open for months, preserved, thank God, across several Chrome crashes-and-restarts (though, in the latest restart, just this afternoon, Chrome seems to have lost the ability to RESPOND TO MY INPUT). Hundreds of other, earlier, open tabs have not been as lucky, and have been LOST in the aforesaid Chrome crashes... Basically, I open a lot of things I don't have time (or privacy, or headphones, or whatever) to pursue in full at the moment they appear to me, and bookmarking them is of limited utility because I virtually never LOOK AT my bookmark (of which there are tens of thousands). Browser hiistory is of limited use because, as mentioned, some of those tabs were originally opened MONTHS ago and have therefore fallen out the end of the pipe. BIGGER QUEUES, DAMMIT.

So I can perfectly damn-well understand how it could happen that someone might have 4,000 tabs open, if he had the ABILITY to do so. I would.

That said -- maybe he deliberately opened 4,000 tabs JUST TO SEE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN. I'd do that, too.

[NormDP]

The most concerning thing about the new OS is the spying issue and the power given to MS to install any kind of spyware or user malicious updates it chooses.

[Zog_but_not_the_first]

No longer my PC

I thought I'd do the experiment so I dug out an old Atom-based media PC and ran the upgrade. All went smoothly and took around four hours to complete.

BUT, the biggest shock was working through the settings and seeing how much stuff MS wants to vacuum up by default. Yes, you can turn it off, but a pound to a penny MS can turn it back on. Even as I was working through the settings a box popped up to tell me that Windows was downloading and making changes to my system.

Just like a smartphone where I get the strong impression that it's not my phone, I'm just a user allowed access. It's no longer my PC. And I don't like that. At all.

[Preston Munchensonton]

Re: No longer my PC

+1

This is exactly the problem with Microsoft moving forward. And it applies to not just their operating systems, but Office has the same issue. You don't own their software, just a temporary use license.

Thank the man in the sky that I have five years before the move to Linux Mint.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: No longer my PC

"Thank the man in the sky that I have five years before the move to Linux Mint."

Why wait? Or move to BSD.

[dotdavid]

I have a Win7/UbuntuMATE dual boot laptop which I plan to update to Win10/UbuntuMATE at some point. Maybe in a couple of months when most of the early bugs are fixed.

I'm most interested in any performance improvements to my Steam games which are pretty much the only reason I dual boot at all; apparently 10 has better performance than 7 in this regard. Although it could be just that my Win7 install is a bit crufty (as Windows installs tend to get). Either way at least I get to download a Windows 10 ISO for a clean install later if the upgrade doesn't work out - Microsoft should have done that years ago.

[MarieAntOnNet]

I'm glad you brought up Steam. What will it be like, in the middle of an online multiplayer death match, when Win10 decides it's time to restart? Is the OS really just allowed to restart whenever it takes a notion to? If so, I wonder how well the collective howl of Steam users will be heard in Redmond.

[Metrognome]

I'm no MS apologist but, strictly speaking, if you are present at your PC at upgrade time you get a popup that you can select the delay between 10 minute and 4 hours. There's also nothing to stop you postponing for endless number of 4-hour intervals.

It's when you go AFK that the timer starts and then goes on with the restart.

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you really suggest that that 'we need to reboot now' window is going to steal focus from the game he's playing? Don't tell me Microsoft hasn't fixed this yet.

[Anonymous Coward]

if you are present at your PC at upgrade time you get a popup that you can select the delay between 10 minute and 4 hours. There's also nothing to stop you postponing for endless number of 4-hour intervals.

So, I get called away from the office with multiple documents open, and when I come back all of that is nuked because MS decided it was more important to reboot the box to plaster over yet another set of deficiencies - possibly borking the box as well, given the patchy patch quality? Now you know why I have updates set to 'notify', but I understand that's potentially no longer an option.

Some days I get the impression Microsoft's main mission is to hamper productivity as much as possible. On other days I'm certain.

[Hans 1]

>There's also nothing to stop you postponing for endless number of 4-hour intervals.

BS!!!!!!!

You can postpone by 4 hours TWICE, then, it will reboot WITHOUT NOTICE - that is why I hate w7 with a passion. Mind, they might have changed that in W10, I have not tested it, but I doubt it ...

[mmeier]

Sorry but wrong. I can postpone more often than that on my (sadly still grandpa W7, at least without the Aero shit) company desktop. Typically "updates warnings" come in when I start the workday and that is "8h+Lunchbreak" so I do this at least trice (start, around lunch, once later).

[Wensleydale Cheese]

"if you are present at your PC at upgrade time you get a popup that you can select the delay between 10 minute and 4 hours. There's also nothing to stop you postponing for endless number of 4-hour intervals."

So bang go any jobs that I leave running overnight?

No thanks.

[fung0]

I'm glad you brought up Steam. What will it be like, in the middle of an online multiplayer death match, when Win10 decides it's time to restart? Is the OS really just allowed to restart whenever it takes a notion to? If so, I wonder how well the collective howl of Steam users will be heard in Redmond.

No problem: if Microsoft has its way, and game developers switch from the Win32 API to UWP, then Steam will be out of business. (The Windows business, anyway. A lot of us will probably support SteamOS, as opposed to living in Microsoft's walled garden... with the sniper towers and razor wire.)

[Nate Amsden]

only reason I upgrade

At this point seems like is when the hardware isn't supported anymore(usually coincides with buying a new computer). Whether it is windows or Linux. Linux on the desktop at least started being "good enough" for me probably in 2007 (been using it as my main desktop since about 1997), since then I haven't come across any improvements that made me real excited to get to the next version. My last "upgrade" was to Mint, explicitly to retain the same Gnome 2 UI that I had with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (which for desktops I used for a solid year past end of support - only changed to Mint when I upgraded from hybrid drive to SSD).

Windows got to that point for me with XP(probably got that way for most people with XP), nothing in the newer versions has gotten me excited. I know that 64-bit under XP was poor relative to Windows 7, so that is one reason to upgrade but that's about it. I'd trade the XP UI over windows 7 UI/UX in a minute though.

I guess I can say the same goes for a lot of technology products and platforms that I use. The only reason I upgraded from ESX(yes no "i") 4.1 to 5.5 is I could no longer get support on 4.x. The version of Splunk I am using has been unsupported for probably two years now(but it WORKS, no support tickets needed in two years - I do plan to upgrade just not a high priority). The list goes on and on and on..

I haven't been a "serious" windows customer since NT 4 days. I've certainly used it a bunch over the years(including I'm the only one on my company's team that supports what little windows servers we have in house) since but very casually.

[fung0]

Re: only reason I upgrade

I still have Windows XP on a couple of systems. It's really pretty nice, for a certain subset of tasks. Doesn't feel particularly antiquated, or restrictive. Of course, Windows 7 does give me advantages for my heavier chores. But by comparison, WIndows 10 offers me absolutely nothing I really need (and a crapload of stuff I don't want.)

[jamesb2147]

Disagreement - Win10 is #%(*^#$ for one particular use case

That is, those who bought into the Win8 ecosystem. Windows 8 runs like a dream for those with "detachables", those laptops that can separate from their keyboards and covert into a touch-only mode. It's far from perfect, but it's clearly the best use case for a Win8 device.

Unfortunately, Win10 drops all the useful parts of that forced Metro world for these users. :/

PS - I personally quite like Win10 so far, but I use a full, non-touch MacBook Pro as my primary device. My mother, on the other hand, will not be downgrading to Win10, and that's a little sad.

[CBMVic20]

Screw Windows 10!

So, Windows 10 then.

Phone home spyware? Check

Forced updates? Check

PITA ribbon bar plastered everywhere? Check

Start menu with feckin' tiles? Check

Search with a default setting to scour the Internet? Check

Cortana shite? Check

New and improved IE? Check

Old and slow IE? Check

Pointless Metro apps on the desktop? Check

Touchscreen crap still shoehorned into the OS? Check

Tightly integrated cloud computing cack? Check

Inevitable subscription model to "rent" the OS after a year? Check

I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade from Windows XP, never mind Windows 7, even if they're giving it away for free. Next stop after Windows 7 for me is Linux Mint, time to cut Microsoft loose and go with something usable that doesn't insist on trying to hoover up all your data or pack a pointless touchscreen UI.

[David 132]

Re: Screw Windows 10!

CBMVic20 - all good points, with the exception of

Inevitable subscription model to "rent" the OS after a year? Check

Microsoft have made it pretty clear on multiple occasions that there will be no subscription model for Windows 10. If you take the free upgrade offer - any time between today and July 29, 2016 - you have Windows 10 free "for the supported lifetime of the device". There are many reasons to dislike Windows 10, but let's not make up more. There's also many reasons to like the OS, too, believe it or not.

The problem being, of course, that they've also said "this will be the last version of Windows", which implies that over that supported lifetime of the device the OS you're using will evolve into Windows 10.1, 10.2, 10.3.Net, 10.5.Cloud Edition, 10.5.5 Mandatory DRM Enforcement Edition... automatically, remorselessly, and without you having any say in the matter. Redmond will NOT listen to our plaintive cries of "But I liked it how it was yesterday!!"

But I agree wholeheartedly with your other points, and have upvoted you.

[fung0]

Re: Screw Windows 10!

CBMVic20 - all good points, with the exception of

Inevitable subscription model to "rent" the OS after a year? Check

If you're going to torpedo the point about paid subscriptions, you really should substitute this:

Pervasive advertising and privacy-destroying 'monetization' of the user? Check!!

[Hans 1]

Re: Screw Windows 10!

By the time 2020 comes, Steam will have ported all interesting games to Linux anyway ... ;-)

[WylieCoyoteUK]

EFI

Downloaded win10 ISO, pro version, wouldn't boot in Vbox without EFI turned on.

Then found that my MAPS key wouldn't work, so downloaded the Enterprise ISO. this wouldn't boot in VBox unless I turned EFI off.

Trying to download it on a windows7 PC using IE11 (sometimes MAPS insists) I got "4 hours and 15 minutes left"

So out of interest I tried on a Linux PC using Firefox, the download took 9 minutes, same site, same file, same network connection.

Maybe Linux users get priority :)

[drtune]

Can't imagine why anyone would bother

I'm still on Win7 and I don't use most of its 'features'; it's very stable, supports all peripherals including some obscure embedded systems tools, and it doesn't annoy me. That, nowadays, is all I ask from my primary OS.

All my real work is done in a variety of linux images hosted on on VMWare.. All windows really ever does for me is run VMWare, Sublime Text and Chrome.

[mmeier]

Re: Can't imagine why anyone would bother

Try Miracast on a W7 box for example. Or use one that connects through WiFi to a network storage. Two improvements that for me where enought to ditch ole clunky W7 for W8 and 8.1. Well okay, the ritual sacrifice of Aero alone was reason enough. Danced a little jig on it's grave, saltet the earth it rest in and finally watered it.

[Mystic Megabyte]

Don't touch that!

Best of all, Classic Shell is available as part of Ninite, so it just gets installed along with all the other default required third-party software whenever I build a system

This is what really pisses me off! Being charged loads of money for an OS that has no useful utilities. Coupled with the fact that Win10 would appear to be spyware I think that it should be avoided if at all possible.

[Boris the Cockroach]

Add me to the meh pile

Good.. win10 is a step up from win8, but then stepping in a puddle of runny dog poo is a step up from win8.

Bad : forced updates....how long until it breaks something and you've got 10 000 angry grannies ringing PC world saying "my computer does'nt work and its all your fault"... shortly before ringing any relatives who vaguely work with computers.(not that theirs work either because of the update....)

But the meh factor is

I dont see any reason to update.......... theres no killer application that needs win10, Win7 does the job well here.

And to be honest, the linux box sitting next to me does the job of being a PC just as well, runs openoffice, can talk to the HP scanner/printer/fax just as well as this Win7 box.

The only reason I have to stick with win7 is for my steam games library, if linux could run everything in there, its game over for windows

[wsm]

Back in the real world...

Windows 10 is a complete non-starter. It's not just the impossible Start thing or the difficulty of finding any ordinary work application just to get going with a spreadsheet or data application. It's the fact that the fixes, such as Classic Shell, can't be used by corporate desktops for free or get past the approval process.

That's the real issue here: businesses won't be using an operating system that requires retraining, endless hours of fixing the base installation and the long wait for compatible versions of their approved and mandated software.

The consumer crowd will reluctantly buy what's available, some will even be happy with it, but the people who have to get some work done won't be happy with another revision of what Microsoft thinks is the way they should be getting things done.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Back in the real world...

"businesses won't be using an operating system that requires retraining, endless hours of fixing the base installation and the long wait for compatible versions of their approved and mandated software."

You clearly haven't worked where I work then.

I had to work out/Google that Acrobat Pro 9 doesn't work with Office 2010 when my laptop was upgraded to Win7/Office 2010 (in late 2011, 6 months after forums etc had clearly established that you don't install Pro9 with Office 2010), and then go through hell internally to get an upgrade to Pro X. We get no support AT ALL on any version changes; I had at least used Office 2007 previously, so knew what the ribbon was for etc; everyone else got booted straight from Office 2003 on XP into Office 2010 on Win7 with no more than a cursory "Here's your new laptop - pretty isn't it?"

[Zog_but_not_the_first]

Nailgun? Coffin? Go!

From the Torygraph, "According to Richard Edwards, principal research analyst at Ovum, Windows 10 will underpin Microsoft's foray into the next multi-billion dollar market: the ‘Internet of Things'."

[moxberg]

Re: Nailgun? Coffin? Go!

Nooooooooooooo! Blue-Screen-Coffee-Machine? I'll shoot myself on site.

[Chika]

Re: Nailgun? Coffin? Go!

Nooooooooooooo! Blue-Screen-Coffee-Machine? I'll shoot myself on site.

Funny you should mention that. I was wandering around the streets of a certain Essex suburb yesterday when I noticed one of those taxis with the advertising display on its roof. Displayed on said screen was a BSOD message.

OK, so it was a Windows XP BSOD but I got a giggle out of it!

[Wensleydale Cheese]

Re: Nailgun? Coffin? Go!

"Nooooooooooooo! Blue-Screen-Coffee-Machine? I'll shoot myself on site."

One up from the coffee machines at a previous employer which would swallow your money and then deliver nothing or cack, then.

[Anonymous Coward]

1st world problem

90% of the world does not have a SSD and is stuck on pirated copies of XP. On single core machines with 1.87 GB of ram. We have had MS Office forced into our unconscious, nothing from not-microsoft will do. What can Windows 10 do for us?

[David Roberts]

Microsoft has lost the plot....

.......tradition is to launch a crap product, wait for a 3rd party to make it useable, then buy the 3rd party.

Why haven't they bought Classic Shell?

[moxberg]

Fading away

Every use case is different, I know, but for myself there has never been a useful application that came with Windows. 10 isn't in any way different. There is one glaring exception: XP's calculator, taken away in Vista (still downloadable though). Everything else I always replaced with better working third party tools, most of them even free.

I only ever touched Explorer (I think that's what it's called) when helping a colleague who didn't have Total Commander installed. That basically leaves the start menu (mostly gone now) and (admittedly) the Task Manager to keep the troops in line if necessary.

Windows has never been more than a glorified application starter that got worse on every iteration, chasing for files (English speaking users just see the tip of the iceberg there) being the most notable brake shoe. For my personal use, I long switched to Linux, and guess what, most of the replacement/productivity stuff is either natively available or runs smoothly in Wine, if not better. Might have to do with programming skills (read: shunning Visual Studio and .NET) on part of the ISVs.

Sooner or later, work will have to switch to Windows 10, so all I could possibly care about is the big brother part. But by then, I guess, the still unavoidable Windows-only software will live in a virtual machine that can access the intranet only. IT (at least in my company) actively supports this scenario already for the heavy lifters. It's all about productivity, they say. Pick your tools, we won't step in your way.

Windows is a living dead, in many ways.

[paul481]

overall I prefered the UI of XP

I remember when moving from XP to 7 overall I prefered the UI of XP.

What I wanted, and still do, is the XP UI, with improvements in security, a vastly improved and more robust File-System with more attributes to support database like search/retrieval (which I thought MS said would come with 'Cairo') a far better File Manager incorporating best features of all the 3rd party File Managers that grew round Win3.1, including dual-pane option, a reliable verification of bulk file copy operations, and support for newer peripheral types and standards, eg. WiFi, Bluetooth, Threads etc.

A once common MS method of 'Updating' I liked are timely release of Service Packs which users could choose to download at a time of their choosing. Why are MS forcing users into force-fed (like forcefeeding animals for veal) indiscriminate 'updates' by discontinuing a popular SP service ? MS seem to have forgotten a significant number of customers are very mobile without wired internet, and reliant on a sometimes flaky 3G service, often with low datacap, horrendous costs if exceeded. I remember once having to turn off Win 7 updates in that situation as between MS and Google, updates failing to install & repeating, and just a little browsing and email, the whole months cap was consumed.

It is as if MS assume the whole computer world lives in USA with always-on unlimited internet. Not everyone wants their computer connected to the internet. I can well understand why reviewers are voting W10 down purely on the issue of MS forcing users into accepting whatever control over the computer MS cares to impose, eg the invasive Orwellian world of big brother spying on your every action with "your" computer.

Why can MS not give customers what they want ?

[moxberg]

Re: overall I prefered the UI of XP

It would appear Linux Mint was made for you.

Install upgrades when YOU deem it worthwhile, enjoy a structured "start menu" + powerful search as a bonus, browse an "app shop" (free though), give Wine a spin on your most valued Windows applications and if that fails, put your old XP in a virtual machine. Let the rock solid base system take care of your hardware, while you browse the internet without anxiously avoiding that one false click. Let others scan their hard drive to shreds for viruses, reboot for the tiniest of patches and try to defragment their broken heart.

I could go on, but you get the drift. Download a live CD and see for yourself, invest 30 minutes that might open your eyes. You can safely install it alongside Windows if you want to give it a fair go, the live CD performance can (for technical reasons) be a bit underwhelming.

[paul481]

Re: overall I prefered the UI of XP

Thank you for your comment. I have seriously considered moving to some flavour of Linux at least since XP. The perceptons that have put me off actuallyare as follows:

a) Linux still appears focused and packaged for techies, where the help forums I looked at, assume every user must have knowledge how to compile their 'App' from a list of resources, rather than what for MSDOS or later Windows, was very simply, copy an executable, click Run, follow the prompts - a quick simple procedure for the many, who just use a computer as a tool.

b) From the Linux forums, I gather that a lot of Linux users spend a huge amount of time arguing merits of various tools, procedures, scant or no mention of end use, generally have little time for 'linux newbies' and relatively disdainful, relative to posts in Windows Help forums.

c) A mixed blessing are the many flavours of Linux, and again, I get the impression of impassioned arguments as to which is best choice to meet the choosen objective, and not only that, one then has to decide which 'desktop' is most appropriate, KDE, Gnome 2 or 3 or should it be Unity ? Unlike the stock Windows many complain about, one is almost spoilt for choice in Linux.

d) Although I have consciously sought out 'open-source' OS independant software for many years, there are so many I use that have no Linux versions, eg 'BitMeter2', a widget taking a tiny screen area, shows numerically and graphically, download & upload activity at all times, also dynamic CPU & other resource use.

e) Last 10 years been too mobile to use desktops. I am always looking for latest, energy efficient, compact hardware to fit in a travel bag. A regular complaint I still read now, is there is a serious lack of software drivers for laptop hardware. Favourite complaint on cnx & similar sites, when trying to run Linux on a laptop or NUC sized computer, you have to forget WiFi, BT, and GPU HW Acceleration. For me thats unusable.

I realise Linux is reliant on much unpaid contribution of software often superior to that of MS with its vast budgets, but for those who use computers only as a tool to get a job done, the 'convenience' of MS Windows weighs in its favour.

I would like to be enlightened if I have gained wrong perceptions, eg. where to get objective help on using Linux as a tool to get specific jobs done, how serious is the problem of no linux drivers for products marketed for Windows.

[Chika]

Re: overall I prefered the UI of XP

Why can MS not give customers what they want ?

It all comes down to this one question.

Microsoft insists on trying to "push the envelope" to try and produce something that will outshine its competitors but never realises that, in doing so, it breaks the experience for its current users. It puts all sorts of shiny things in there to compete with Apple or Linux or whoever then wonders why people complain.

It isn't that Apple or any of the Linux distros don't get this either. Goodness knows, as a Linux user myself, I have suffered all sorts of indignities where changes are made that actually break the deal. Anyone that knows me well enough or has read my past comments will know, for example, what my view of systemd is (and a hint for anyone else; systemd is the biggest pile of horse shit ever inflicted on Linux) but when you look at the number of people that will get upset about something like that measured against the number of people upset by Microsoft changing the UI, the Linux complaints will always be drowned out.

There are two problems here. First is that programmers are useless at listening to users. That's why they use analysts to find out things. Second, however, is the problem that marketing departments and executives tend to get far too involved in the design aspect. You get a product designed by committee long before the programmers ever get to the coding side of things.

Consider the number of euphemisms we now have to deal with. "Windows as a Service" (you can run Windows with our permission), "cloud storage" (We want your data, mwahahahah!) and so forth.

In my view, Microsoft have not listened closely enough to its customers. All it has done is heard the clamour and flung a few sops at us to keep us quiet, just as they did with Windows 8.1. It's quite obvious how they want things to go. Those bits are just the same as with Windows 8. They refuse to do what the majority want which is to provide a stable system with an intuitive interface that is secure (by which I mean that companies including Microsoft themselves have no right to pump its users for data).

Microsoft apologised for Windows 8 but don't appear to be serious about it.

[Snafu1]

Re: overall I prefered the UI of XP

"Microsoft apologised for Windows 8 but don't appear to be serious about it."

Also IE "integration" (into the OS (later proven to be false) as well as the bundle) in XP -> W9x, the reaming of Stac's disk-doubler tech, the blatant copying of DR's utilities/UX etc etc... all the way back to MS DOS v1

When will ppl learn that a successful mega-corp builds its success on the bodies of its competitors as well as their developments :(

[fung0]

Re: overall I prefered the UI of XP

Why can MS not give customers what they want ?

They are. The problem is you're no longer the customer. As in Facebook, you are the product.

[Len Goddard]

Mint

Looks like I will complete the move I started a while ago. All useful work will be done on a Mint system and I'll have a separate windoze box for playing games. If MS (or GCHQ or the NSA) want to track my progress in the various MMOs and standalone games I indulge in then good luck to them.

[Terrence Bayrock]

Masterful summary....

[Sebastian A]

Trevor, you've pretty much listed everything that bugs me.

I just dropped Win10 onto a VM to see if it's something I can work with and in short, at the moment that's a no.

I'll wait for a few third party tweaks to come out, specifically for the following things.

- Controlling updates: I want to be able to turn the tap on and off. If that can't be done, I'll just settle for "off". Probably means router-level blocks.

- Colour picker: I cannot work with the few options that have been given. I want to set each colour myself, as in Win7. May not bug many people but it bugs me.

- Phone home: I don't need MS to receive diagnostics from me. May be another router-level block there.

[BaronMatrix]

Re: Trevor, you've pretty much listed everything that bugs me.

I can add a bunch of stuff.. I have a domain at home which means I don't want to use a Live account... I don't want the AERO transparency, I want the drop shadows and chrome edges... Looking at a window with no chrome is scary almost...

And the mixing of Phone UI setting with the Control Panel is criminal.. The Explorer window looks like a kid on drugs did it...

Why MS did you destroy my developer desktop while screaming developers, developers, developers...

I doubt Visual Studio could EVER be a Modern app just like PhotoShop, AutoCAD and too many other professional DESKTOP apps...

[Geoffrey W]

<QUOTE>Anti-Microsoft people are praising it.</QUOTE>

Judging by the comments here I'd disagree with this one.

[POSitality]

To all those bitching about auto updates...

...why not use LTSB?

From wikipedia (so it must be true!)

"Windows 10 Enterprise 2015 LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch) is the same edition as Windows 10 Enterprise but will not receive any feature updates and gives companies more control over the update process."

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: To all those bitching about auto updates...

Please demonstrate where I can buy Enterprise LTSB as an OEM with consumer hardware and no subscription.

Thank you

[ITS Retired]

Why not?

When is Microsoft going to be forced to separate its GUI from the operation system?

Most of every complaint in every "up-grade" are the increasingly frustrating features bugs in the GUI. Desktops are not laptops and laptops are not slabs. Business machines are not home game machines. Stop already with trying to make them all the same.

Let 3rd parties in on the GUI.

[Geoffrey W]

Re: Why not?

RE: "Let 3rd parties in on the GUI."

I wasn't aware they were being kept out - Classic Shell, Start8/10, etc, etc...

Any real criticisms? Can anyone provide a real reason why I shouldn't upgrade one of my machines to win 10? Still open to persuasion...

[Hans 1]

Re: Why not?

Have a 4k display ? Then upgrade, but ONLY if you really, really, really need to, else, switch to Linux - if elReg commentards are anything to go by ...

[ITS Retired]

Re: Why not?

Classic Shell is a fix for a real problem, a work around for another MS misstep. I was thinking of a complete separate GUI to replace the MS version. That way people can chose a 3rd market GUI that will have the look and feel, better suited for what they want and do.

Why do people spend hours trying to make the GUI usable from the MS default with every new OP? The XP version of the desktop, seems to have become a standard people want, whether it is a Linux mint desktop, or Win 7, or Win 8/8.1 or the new Windows 10. What's with MS trying to make a desktop look and feel like a phone or a fondle slab? With a touch screen yet? Desktops have mice and are used for serous work in one place, even for home users. If people want to be mobile, the still can, but why should that desktop that is 18X17X6.5 inchs, with a 24 to 30 something screen (or two) and a mouse, have the same look and feel as their mobile device? Why make the Desktop conform to a mobile standard?

Most people are smart enough to use their different computer devices effectively, even though the look and feel of each is different.

[fung0]

Re: Why not?

Microsoft has talked about creating a 'Modular Windows,' but its traditional approach has always been to produce monolithic products so it can "control the user experience" - i.e. create lock-in. The more bizarre and idiosyncratic the UI you can force people to use, the less able they are to migrate to some competing solution.

Yes, I know it doesn't make any sense, but it's true. Try to imagine someone saying it in a Redmond boardroom...

[BaronMatrix]

Re: Why not?

It blows horrible chunks... It doesn't know if it's a phone UI trying to work on the desktop or a desktop UI that has to blend with phones...

Some setting are desktop, some are Modern (which means gray background and Phone icons)... A reviewer here called it the thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

Distorted reality

Reading the comments here, an alien might think that everyone runs Linux on their PCs and were forced to comment on a OS they don't use and will never use. That alien may get a wrong idea of the IT world, but a great picture of humanity.

[soerenmoeren]

great blog!

i am intrigued about the ways to prevent WinTen from "calling home"

any chance you might point to a guide or point out the main issues which you tackled and shutdown first.

i mean apart from the usual settings for IE, error reporting and now cortana - is there anything else that slips under average joes radar?

[Doctor Evil]

WiFi Sense

[oldbilbo]

Er, I'll use this opportunity to profer a word of thanks to Trevor_Pott for his insights..... and to those others who helped expand my awareness to the point of needing a stiff G&T.

"I'm just going outside. I may be some time...."

[Feldagast]

Think I will wait until just before the end of the free option and then decide if it is worth upgrading, I will let everyone else Alpha, Beta, Charlie test the software for me and see after several patches if its what I want to start using.

[Pretty Ricky]

^^^ Wisdom. There is nothing earth-shattering in Windows 10, so what's the rush? I'll stick with Win7 for now and watch the hoopla over Win10 from the sidelines.

< typed on an iMac >

[Sil]

A must have upgrade for many

For all its crap* and bugs, there are compelling reasons to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:

- launch speed

- DirectX 12

- Additional hardware support

- screen scaling for high definition screens. First test show it finally allows per screen configuration - or at least per graphic card, need to test on more hardware.

- better audio chain for pro audio software, let's hope they'll take advantage of it.

- better security (admittedly)

- and more

Some will want to keep Windows 7, but frankly there are less and less reasons to do so.

Also to be fair to Cortana, a personal assistant must be personal. If you don't want to give access to personal information, don't. Yes, privacy options are spread a little too much, but at least they exist and are not fake (hello fb).

* My personal pet peeve is the fact that closing a windows in tablet mode forcibly brings back to the start screen or whatever it is called nowadays. This is wrong on so many levels. You are browsing and a windows popups. You close it. No, you don't go back to the browser. you go back to the start screen.

[fung0]

Re: A must have upgrade for many

- launch speed

A trivial improvement. On an SSD, my Win7 system boots in 10-15 seconds. Which is irrelevant, because I only shut it down about once every 3 months.

- DirectX 12

Vulkan is the smart solution. Open standards are always preferable to proprietary lock-in. From the developer's point of view, Vulkan will open up more platforms. From the gamer's point of view... well, there are no DirectX 12 games at this point, so any 'advantage' is theoretical at best.

- better security (admittedly)

Any gains are more than offset by Microsoft's numerous privacy invasions.

None of this stuff adds up to a compelling case for the disruption of an upgrade, re-learning the UI for no gain in productivity, adding a whole new API and new type of 'app' so that Microsoft can further its agenda of gaining market share in mobile.

Of course, if you see Cortana as a big thing, you are indeed the target customer for Windows 10. Personally, if I were forced at gunpoint to use Windows 10, Cortana is the very first thing I'd want to disable (or better yet, rip out by the roots).

[Unicornpiss]

You can have my Windows 7...

...when you pry it from my cold, dead CPU. It's next to the 2nd drive running Mint Linux, which is what I run 90% of the time at home anyway and probably will for the foreseeable future.

[Anonymous Coward]

Trust issues

"...I simply do not trust Microsoft, even the littlest bit."

Sorry, but, yes you do. You crossed that bridge when you chose to run their operating system.

[mi pen]

Re: Trust issues

When you have no choice, the choice is made for you.

[herman]

I've been running the Betas on a virtual machine for several months. I can confirm that it works OKish and one can turn off most of the annoyances and firewall the spying without too much hassle. However, every new machine I buy, will still be an Apple Macbook Pro.

[MagikGimp]

Fuck off

Good grief this guy is annoying, much like most people in basic IT are and why I would hate to work in the industry at this level.

Windows 7 is a horrid OS. Ugly and annoying with half its original features disabled and shity security. 8 is a mess but even though Unity has had just fucking type in what you want for years, one swipe and it's there. Oh but guess what, the IT 'pros' hate that too. Metro is a simplified approach for new users and those on touch screens but those admin types just want to tell them how they've been using a computer all this time and that's the only way to do it.

And then he bangs on about Ninite (and that you have to pay for it) and I just want to throttle the guy.

We're moving even further away from what computing should be:

Centralised repositories that update automatically with the (secure) option to install things outside repositories too. And don't you even fucking start about how you fucked up a Windows Update that broke your precious setup. You went and manually installed it obsessively and if it's work, you need the fucking job.

The same with drivers.

No more fucking Start Menus with apps listed under company names and sometimes not in a folder at all. What a fucking joke that is. Even listed under categories is awkward but better.

Basically what using a tablet / phone is like but with a great big search box to find shit.

Chrome without all its bullshit crap that doesn't work that does work in Firefox (not Chromium! Fuck off nerd)

The death-knell for security software. The complete and utter oblivion of it. Fuck your 128 gigs of RAM and running 17 anti-malware 'solutions'.

If not then life on a computer just becomes this huge waste of time where you're back to being 14 i.e. when it was fun to do so.

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: Fuck off

Ahem.

<Duke Nukem>Eat shit and die</Duke Nukem>

I believe that is the appropriate response to internet trolls. Or, at least it was, back in the 90s. I give your flame 6/10. Not enough ALLCAPS and the spelling could be worse.

[Vic]

Re: Fuck off

"Fuck off" for a first post?

That'll win friends and influence people...

Vic.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Fuck off

I wanted to say what you said but somehow I just couldn't find myself to be that direct amongst all the whingers!

[BaronMatrix]

And people tell em everyone likes Win10... HA... The cartoon drawings, the misplaced settings, the blend of Modern an Control Panel, no chrome around any windows, not even a drop shadow to spot overlapped windowed apps...

Win10 says screw AutoCAD, AnSYS, ProE and any other DESKTOP tools... Developers, developers, developers, MY ASS...

Did anyone even look to see what the UI looks like on a 23" 1080p LCD...? It's horrible... Everything from This PC to the uneven icons vs text in Explorer sucks...

This is the first Windows that is better with no windows open... yesterday I tried to get 10240 installed on a laptop but the damn Start Menu wouldn't come up to click Settings which looks like a 2008 phone UI...

Microsoft what the hell were you thinking...?

[rcmattyw]

My only real complaint is that not all settings are in control panel. Either fix the modern panel and kill the original panel vice versa. I don't care which. Overall I prefer the look and feel of Windows 10 though to be honest, its just another app launcher. Everything I use is either pinned to the task bar or Rocket Dock.

[Anonymous Coward]

As usual, the comments live up to their entertainment value, even more so than the snarky rant in the article! Some serious whinging going on here!

I've currently bootcamped Windows 10 on a MacBook Pro, using Apple's bootcamp drivers from early-2014. So far so good after about a week. It definitely feels faster than the Win 7 it was upgraded from. All my programs were kept and everything works, albeit most of my software is no older than 5 years. There is a lot of new 'apps', a lot of which I probably won't use. But, then again, OS X was bundled with a whole lot of stuff I never use as well; iMovie, Garage Band, Photos, etc.

To each their own, but new Start menu is good for me, much better than the static and drill-down style Windows 7 Start menu. I keep about 4 live tiles going, unpinned all the stuff I don't want, and in total I have about 12 tiles of various sizes in my menu. The 3 applications I use most are pinned to the taskbar (one of them is OneNote, which is way better than the OS X version). There have been 3 updates that have been automatically pushed down to me, but none of them forced me to reboot or interrupted my task at hand. I think they will do a backflip on this automatic updates thing. The new (to Windows) Task View feature is also pretty good, plus the virtual desktops. Even in OS X, I log in with my Apple ID so it's no different here that I have to use a Microsoft Account. Again, not a big issue for me. Some of the privacy stuff looks quite intrusive, but I think the permissions required of some apps on my phone are way more so. I think Microsoft will probably backflip on the privacy stuff too.

[apostleofregister]

Well, I think those chains look really sexy on you, and they contrast really well with the walls and bars!

[Anonymous Coward]

don't like explorer ribbons

if you are a power user, you should probably using a shell replacement like directory opus, imo

[N13L5]

So, how do I get DirectX 12 without fouling up my computer by inviting total Microsoft control over MY machine with Windows 10?

[mi pen]

Went back to Windows 7 and reskinned it look better.

Went back to Windows 7 because of Windows bugs. Then simply paid for WindowBlinds for $10 and can Reskin my WIn 7 PC to look look like whatever I want.

Looks nice and works fine with games. Couldn't care less about bandwidth hogging Windows APPs. I also have a Samsung Tab 4 and it updates me on news etc. For a trickle of the wasted Bandwidth that Windows 10 spyware was using.

Windows 10 has been BSODing me to death. Windows 7 everything works fine again..Ive got 2 more years and by then I will need a new PC anyway. Plus I can always switch to Linux for future gaming.

[D 13]

I like it.

I've been using W10 on a couple of desktops and a laptop for the last few weeks. I was able to use it painlessly right from the start and all my software works exactly as it did under W7.Apart from the control panel irritation and a couple of others it's quicker, slicker and more intuitive than W7 and I would hate to go back.

I suspect that this has been the experience for the vast majority of people, hence the W10 launch has been a non-event. The only complaints I really see are about Microsoft slurping up data, in exactly the same way that Google has been doing through Android for the last five years.

The discussions that I've seen on here and other forums seem to largely consist of linux users testifying that they've seen the truth and it's name is mint. Basically the normal background noise that you see on any Windows related thread. The fact that the best they can come up with is vague threats about the NSA looking at your Dick Pics says it all.

tldr: The lack of substantial stories about the W10 launch show that it has been a success.

[GrahamsTenPenneth]

Re: I like it.

Yeah people like cigarettes.

And fast food ...

[GrahamsTenPenneth]

"only a little bit crap" ..a ringing endorsement.

"Windows 10: it's only a little bit crap. And really, that's better than we could have hoped for."

O please.

Why would I want an OS which ... well basically I don't own.

Why don't Microsoft just come out and admit it's heart is just not in the OS market any more.

Take a wild guess which desktop OS I use? HINT: It's currently wiping the floor in the smartphone market.

[boatsman]

upgrade to windows 10 or better. I did.

opensuse 42

the answer to all questions, I suppose :-)

[apostleofregister]

Skipping 9, I can't stop laughing.

WinXP = good, Vista = bad, Win7 = good, Win8 = bad, Win9 = good, Win10 = bad.

Just when hope was around the corner they lost count and skipped the good one! ;)

[jegomezenciso]

Appropriate for a business case

I´m just a regular guy trying to decide whether or not to upgrade to Win10.

I am surprised to realize how a company may have earned sucha a enraged distrust - and is not alone at it: several other companies (Google and Apple are mentioned).

No wonder why nobody trusts anyone any more..... It should be studied carefully as I find it to be a sign of the times, of our current days culture.

Scary.