back to article We put Windows 10 on a small fondleslab: STILL not ready, 3 days to go

With Windows 10 now just days away, we thought we'd put it on a small slablet of the sort you can pick up cheaply and see how it did - in this case a Linx 8. In short, it did not do well. These devices have a 1280 x 800 8" display and just 1GB of RAM. They also have 32GB of storage, of which 5GB is taken up by a recovery …

  1. Steve Crook

    Pester Power

    The question is, how many people are reading this sort of article? For those that don't and get repeated invitation to 'upgrade' to the new version of Windows there's going to be an inclination to Push That Button. Could be a lot of confused and unhappy people throughout August.

    Incidentally, I notice that the BBC have seen fit to remove the alarm clock feature from IPlayer Radio in their latest release. Didn't know they'd done that and took the droid update when it was offered...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pester Power

      BBC iplayer radio on a Windows phone will flatten its battery overnight. Even if you've exited the app. Lack of alarm clock - a minor issue....

      1. The Original Steve

        Re: Pester Power

        "BBC iplayer radio on a Windows phone will flatten its battery overnight. Even if you've exited the app."

        Um, no.

        I use iPlayer radio daily, normally in the morning. If you exit the app (rather than just switching) then the application is closed and my Lumia 930 will keep chugging away for the rest of the day and won't need a charge until I'm ready for bed.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Pester Power

          Perhaps it's just my phone then - a 640.

      2. Sgt_Oddball Silver badge
        Gimp

        Re: Pester Power

        Don't even get me started on the Android iplayer radio...

        They still seem incapable of having the shows displayed in either vertical or horizontal, the downloads still insists on starting at the top rather than where you last left it (very annoying since there's no way to group shows), no auto/next play capability for series and because I listen in the car I tend to have my phone plugged into the charger.. So naturally everytime I do anything with the phone (like say, adjust the volume, make a hands free call, turn the screen on.....) , iplayer picks up its ball and goes home.

        I really would ditch it if it wasn't the only app in town.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Pester Power

          Don't even get me started on the Android iplayer radio...

          That's OK, you don't need to get started on something so completely unrelated to the article.

          Oh wait, so you just did?

      3. JeffyPoooh
        Pint

        Re: Pester Power

        "BBC iplayer radio on a Windows phone will flatten its battery overnight."

        Where I sleep, there's electricity.

        This alleged issue, if true, may be an issue for the homeless.

    2. Bob Vistakin
      Facepalm

      And so it begins

      First fondleslabs, then Nvidia graphics cards - a very popular choice, I even have them in my rig. But fear not, this Windows 10 autocorrupting (tm) horror won't be coming anywhere near it.

    3. jason 7

      Re: Pester Power

      I've sent a note out to all my customers telling them to wait till at least October before pressing the button. Also best they call me to do it for them.

    4. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Pester Power

      Interesting that someone is actually trying to upgrade/install Win10 on some entry level Windows devices:

      An interesting follow up would be to do similar with:

      1. A tablet typical to those MS recommended for using in education (for students starting Sept 2014) such as the Toshiba WT8...

      2. A netbook running Win7 (you know Intel Atom N550 and below, 2GB RAM, 1024 x 600 LCD ie. the specification MS demanded if vendors were to get Win7 Starter et al)...

      1. StuCom
        Meh

        Re: Pester Power

        I can't see the point of a follow-up with those devices; performance should be pretty similar, actually.

        The WT8 for instance is very much like the Lynx 8 in the review; same RAM, processor 32GB eMMC disk. The Windows 7 tablet has a poorer processor and graphics but much lower resolution and more RAM to offset that.

        If you're doing office and surfing it'll be fine...

        I want to know how well it copes on a 2-in-1 like my trusty Lenovo Helix; switching between laptop and touch modes all the time.

      2. Missing Semicolon Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Re: Pester Power

        I've tried Win10 on my Tosh NB300. It's really crap. Mostly because it runs like a slug, even with 2G of RAM.

        It's also stuck on built 10045, as Windows update is broken, even when I ran the restore process to put it back to the just-installed state.

        The Edge browser (Project Spartan) just quits.

        The wireless connection control works really badly, not reporting the current state of the connection.

  2. The Original Steve

    Better...

    Build 10240 is on the right track, and thankfully as MS have de-coupled the first party apps from the OS in terms of updates so bugs in Mail and other apps can be updated via the store in the background pretty quickly.

    Can't say I've used Win10 on a small tablet, but I have been testing it since Jan on a Linx 10, and in the last month I've also installed it onto my Dell Inspiron hybrid laptop/tablet device.

    On both of these devices I've actually found it to be incredibly stable. I haven't been able to replicate the issues mentioned in the article, however I have come across a couple of problems elsewhere. (e.g. I can't edit the TCP/IP properties in the GUI for a VPN connection...)

    Overall it seems like a big improvement on Windows 8.1, both for touch and non-touch devices alike. I haven't recommended people to upgrade from Windows 7 to 8/8.1 as I didn't feel it brought enough to the party vs the changes in UI / learning curve for most people. However it looks like W10 will be easy enough for end users to get used to (compared to 7) and brings enough goodies to warrant the upgrade.

    UI aside (everyone is fixated on the UI, which whilst important is only one aspect of an OS) Win 10 feels like a big jump, particularly from Win 7 in areas of performance and manageability. The revised areas of start screen / store / apps from Windows 8/8.1 is a huge relief, and now makes enough sense for it not to be a 'blocker' in terms of recommending the platform to end users.

    Whilst the first party apps aren't the best, not in any area to be honest, they are mostly good enough for the majority of users. Yes, Mail is crap compared to Outlook or even Outlook.com or GMail, but it's good enough for basic email use. I use Outlook 2016 preview on my laptop, signed into the domain, but have my MS account hooked up and use Mail for day-to-day operations on my personal mailbox.

    There's some massive gaps that MS need to address. OneDrive placeholders is a huge issue for me, Groove Music needs some basic features adding (MP3 tag editing, seamless playback etc.) and Edge needs extension support (coming soon but not soon enough).

    However ignoring Windows 10 on it's own, and looking at it by comparing to Windows 7 and Windows 8.x then it looks very promising. The servicing model of the applications means they should be getting regular updates which is overdue and will make a huge difference based on the updates done during the Insider Preview programme.

    Think I'll give it 6 months, see if there's anything major reported and looks at rolling out a small pilot. Genuinely does look like the best release (at RTM) of Windows and the future roadmap looks equally promising.

    1. SecretSonOfHG

      Re: Better...

      "and the future roadmap looks equally promising." ... while I agree with the general tone of the article and your post, isn't it a bit sad that the biggest OS developer in the world can't put together something after three years that can be at least classified as "stable"?

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    2015 year of the windows desktop?

  4. Elmer Phud

    All around the world and I, I, I, cant find my . . .

    " Windows search was still indexing, and a message “We’re getting search ready” appeared above the results. How it can take several hours to index fewer than 100 Start menu apps is another Microsoft mystery, "

    It's indexing the internet and won't be happy until it's done.

    (though it may index the internet faster than Vista on a local drive)

    1. Haku

      Re: All around the world and I, I, I, cant find my . . .

      Windows search was 'adequate' on XP, I hate the Win7 version and haven't tried 8, but very very glad I discovered the free Windows search tool Everything which indexes NTFS attached drives very quickly and displays realtime search results as you type, with regular expression capability for even more refined results.

      1. DJV Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: All around the world and I, I, I, cant find my . . .

        Thanks Haku

        Hadn't come across Everything before!

        Cheers

        1. psychonaut

          Re: All around the world and I, I, I, cant find my . . .

          Its quicker to download Everything, instal it and use it than it is to search for something using windows. Been using it for ages. Cant understand why MS havent bought them/copied them

      2. joed

        Re: All around the world and I, I, I, cant find my . . .

        or Agent Ransack for the brave;)

        Coworker "smuggled" it onto corporate machine and no, it's no malware.

  5. LDS Silver badge

    From one mistake to another...

    8 tried to force a touch UI on desktop users, now 10 looks to enforce a desktop UI to tablet users. Frankly, the task bar is really useless in tablet mode - just like the start menu (of course they're ok in desktop mode).

    MS looks really unable to understand the two modes really need different UI and interaction modes. Just like an even smaller device like a phone requires another one.

    Moreover non-touch application may not work or be useful if you just run them maximized, you many need to run them in desktop mode even if you're using touch input (maybe using the stylus....)

    It's pretty clear the Windows UI dept. is running in "headless" mode and little revenges are played here and there, hoping the free upgrade will lure people into using 10 anyway.

    I guess I will wait several months to upgrade, and wait to see how 10 shapes itself - and how long it takes for the one in charge to leave MS after its release...

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: From one mistake to another...

      "I guess I will wait several months to upgrade"

      I will not change my OS until the hardware doesn't accept Win7/64 anymore.

      Windows 1 0 does not bring any useful security items to the table, enforces radical change in my habits, ties me to the effin' Cloud which I do NOT accept, expects me to rent my applications and forces a godawful Store on me that I have not had to cope with since I started my computing experience in 1986.

      In other words, Personal Computing has disappeared with Windows 1 0.

      Well I am of the opinion that it is MY hardware, and MY computer to use as I damn well please. Windows 7 does that for me. The day my hardware dies and I have to change OS, if Microsoft wants to be on the list of candidates, it had damn well better have an OS that gives me the same options I have now, otherwise it'll be some flavor of Linux.

      I don't WANT to choose Linux, but if Microsoft thinks it can push me into a corner, well I have news for it : it won't.

      1. LawAbidingCitizen

        Re: From one mistake to another...

        I don't want to choose Windows, but I don't really have a choice. Very few OEMs will sell a laptop that doesn't come with Windows pre-installed. I've had to settle for either a System76 laptop (with a US keyboard), or just bite the bullet and pay for an operating system I never use.

        1. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
          Linux

          Re: From one mistake to another...

          If it comes with "Windows with Bing", then the OEM didn't pay anything for the Windows install, so you can blow it away without remorse.

        2. smot

          Re: From one mistake to another...

          @LawAbidingCitizen: Both Dell and HP will sell you a lappie without Windows preinstalled (I'm using just such a beast - an XPS13). Intel will sell you a NUC without Windows, and several PC builders (e.g. PC Specialist) will build you something to your own specification without Windows.

          You don't save a great deal of dosh, but you do get some smug satisfaction.

        3. Mikel

          Re: From one mistake to another...

          @LawAbidingCitizen

          Be careful. You may find yourself unable to use your software of choice on a Windows 10 laptop

        4. Jamesit

          Re: From one mistake to another...

          Sometimes you can get a refund for the Windows licence from the OEM.

        5. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

          Re: From one mistake to another...

          Here's one

          http://www.novatech.co.uk/modifier.html?s=NNB-B15

          When I looked, the default option was No Operating System.

        6. SecretSonOfHG

          Re: From one mistake to another...

          "or just bite the bullet and pay for an operating system I never use"

          Same as me with my Toshiba L70. Windows 8 has been booted exactly three times, the necessary ones for (a) initial installation of Windows 8 and registering useless cloud user ID (b) checking that hardware works and (c) reduce its partition size to 256GB so that I could install OpenSUSE on it.

          And yet I've paid Microsoft for the privilege of NOT using its product. And no, there were no alternatives in this price range without Windows preinstalled at least in my country.

      2. Sandtitz Silver badge

        Re: From one mistake to another...@Pascal

        Windows 1 0 does not bring any useful security items to the table

        What security items are you missing?

        enforces radical change in my habits

        Start menu is different, though less so than Win8 Start screen. What else?

        ties me to the effin' Cloud which I do NOT accept

        No, it doesn't. You don't have to use any part of Microsoft's effin' Cloud.

        expects me to rent my applications

        WTF? How does the OS force you to rent your applications? Please explain in detail.

        and forces a godawful Store on me that I have not had to cope with since I started my computing experience in 1986.

        Don't fucking use the Store then. Happy? My Win8 laptop has the Store and I haven't bothered with it at all.

        I'm coping with the app store on my smart phone, and my computing experience goes way beyong yours.

        1. joed

          Re: From one mistake to another...@Pascal

          Start menu remains almost as useless as start screen in 8, but gets more bloated than in 7.

          While 10 does not necessarily force you (yet) into MS cloud, the system is simply a platform optimized to connect to MS services and everything else remains secondary consideration (EULA takes care of that). Say what you want, but try disabling all the chit-chatting between your PC and MotherShip. Just start with fully disabling Cortana, smartscreen in IE (prompt seems to come back every IE update) etc. They truly like to listen.

          And the idea of Store seems like a racketeering of the computer age. Sorry, but I need no middle man no big brother to guide me and help make "correct" choices.

          Windows used to be low friction platform for less hardcore users with access to wast (and unrestricted) selection of 3rd party software and games. Now it becomes extension of MS data center with some gaming capabilities. I have no intent to let MS mine through my crap and the older I get the less I care for gaming.

          It's been easy, convenient and fun this far, but no way I want to end up at mercy of MS admins/execs when they complete Windows switch to the service/subscription model.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: From one mistake to another...

        You sound like an old man. Penny Farthings were good enough when I was a boy, and I'll be damned if I upgrade to one of these new-fangled bicycle contraptions...

      4. JohnPF

        Re: From one mistake to another...

        Either you have no clue what you're talking about or you're intentionally spreading misinformation.

        Windows 10 does NOT tie you to the cloud. You can create local accounts without tying them to a MS account if you desire (just like Win 7).

        Windows 10 does not expect you to "rent" software. Just like Windows 7 there are options available to subscribe (rent?) Office via Office365. This is no more a requirement than it is on Windows 7.

        Windows 10 also does NOT force you to use the "godawful store". You may continue to install all of your existing desktop apps that you currently run on Windows 7. If you choose not to take advantage to the new Universal apps then you simply don't need to go into the store and continue on your way.

        I'm not sure what you're all worked up about but you can run Windows 10 pretty much the same way you're currently running Windows 7 without any of the issues you're complaining about.

    2. Neil Alexander

      Re: From one mistake to another...

      "Frankly, the task bar is really useless in tablet mode"

      After foisting a Windows tablet upon my dad, the first thing he said after a couple of minutes of furious prodding was "I can't find anything!", especially as the edge-of-screen gestures (whilst natural after a while) are completely alien at first. Bringing the taskbar back like that is a good way to remove the barrier for people who are picking one of these devices up for the first time and wouldn't know about those invisible gestures.

  6. LawAbidingCitizen

    I'm anti-Microsoft, but...

    As a huge proponent of Open Source, I'm anti-Microsoft (although I'm not militant about it, I usually keep my views to myself). Having said that, the new Windows 10 looks pretty good. I'm certainly not going to move from Linux to Windows, but I can see how it would appeal to a large number of users.

  7. Paul Shirley

    what hierarchical menu?

    A hierarchical menu has multi dimensional navigation as an aid to organisation and consequently navigation, that's it's whole point. How a linear list with dividers counts as more than tokenism is a mystery, I'm scrolling the whole damn list to find the grouping my app might be in, about as half assed an effort at organisation as you can imagine.

    What I want to see in every Win10 review is whether the various 3rd party fixes for crap like that work.

    1. DrXym Silver badge

      Re: what hierarchical menu?

      I find this incredible too. It's very easy to fill up a page with too many tiles and it would be nice to be able to collapse groups, or reduce them to a single tile which expands when it's tapped on.

      On top of that, the way Windows arranges tiles in groups is horrible and unintuitive. Sometimes dropping the tile in one place, makes it go to another, or it starts a new group whether you want it or not.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Interestingly

    Beethoven's unfinished symphony was his tenth.

    A number choice that may haunt Microsoft for a long time.

    1. GitMeMyShootinIrons

      Re: Interestingly

      Given that Apple's OS X is also 10, and seems to follow update after update, without ever turning it up to 11, it would appear to be their unfinished symphony too.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Interestingly

        Apple didn't skip 9.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Interestingly

          "Apple didn't skip 9."

          If you've ever dealt with middle management that need to put a *future* software release version number on their plans and forecasts, and therefore they want one to *predict* a future software version number, I for one appreciate that Microsoft provided a useful example of an unanticipated skip.

      2. tempemeaty
        Joke

        Re: Interestingly

        New OSX releases do come out as numerously and rapidly as clowns from a clown car...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Interestingly

          And Windows updates come with all the reliability of a clown car.

      3. macjules Silver badge
        Alien

        Re: Interestingly

        Ah, but then it would stop being OS X and become X11, and that would never do.

    2. Timmy B

      Re: Interestingly

      Interestingly the 10th Century saw the invention of fireworks - is Windows 10 to be off with a bang?? Sure we can find hundreds of 10s with both good and bad connotations,

      1. Steve Cooper

        Re: Interestingly

        off with a Bing, not bang

        1. Chika
          Boffin

          Re: Interestingly

          Probably be better starting off with a bong, methinks.

  9. Chika
    Holmes

    Whut?

    To be honest, I have no real urgent need to consider W10 because of the three machines I have that run W7 only one of them seems to have decided to allow me that option so far.

    And yes, I can hear some of the complaints but having worked with Windows for some years, I know that stopping various nuisances in Windows has always been a passtime, both for third parties and for Microsoft itself (ISTR they are releasing an add-on that allows you to block upgrades and such following the huge amount of griping about their insistence that all Updates will be set to automatic).

    My only advice is

    • Make a backup
    • Make sure you know where your install media/rescue media is
    • If possible, clean install on a virgin drive
    Otherwise my usual suggestion is to wait and see what happens. On the plus side, Windows 10 is effectively the result of the kick up the arse that Microsoft generally gets when it releases something dubious - Windows 3.1 was the result of the kuta resulting from Windows 3.0, Windows 7 was the result of the kuta resulting from Vista and so forth.

    On the minus side, there's no guarantee that Microsoft haven't done something worthy of a kuta this time. We won't know for certain until W10 is being used in anger.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Whut?

      Yeah thanks for the advice but I think you're preaching to the wrong crowd and it's somewhat patronising.

      1. Chika

        Re: Whut?

        Yeah thanks for the advice but I think you're preaching to the wrong crowd and it's somewhat patronising.

        Maybe so. Maybe not. You get all sorts here. I felt that it needed saying before somebody else came in and asked the obvious questions.

        Oh, and to the other Anonymous Coward, that was a very lightweight troll if ever I saw one.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Whut?

      ISTR? KUTA? Please stop. You're making yourself look like an idiot using these kiddie acronyms.

  10. Mikel

    The festival of horrors

    Mark my words: the cacophony of shrieking that begins on launch day will be heard 'round the world. Failed updates, broken or missing drivers, lost data, broken apps, devices and apps misbehaving inexplicably, critical functions lost, businesses losing productivity during an aborted migration, security problems. Basically the works.

    But "Great artists ship".

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The festival of horrors

      Will you concede to being an idiot if this hasn't happened within 3 months of release?

      Or will you just go on enriching the world with more "predictions"?

  11. Efros

    Kingsing W8

    Interestingly the Windows 10 icon just popped up on my $100 windows 8 tablet, I'll definitely upgrade this thing, more out of curiosity that anything. With 1GB of Ram and a fairly small SSD it tends to struggle a bit with W8.1, it'll be interesting to see if that improves or gets worse. Also be interesting to see if the Chinese characters in the login screen will finally go away, never been able to figure out how to get rid of them.

  12. Joe 48

    Maybe not the place

    But I've been running Apples Beta as well as the MS one's. To be fair I've had far more issues with the current MAC Beta than MS on recent releases.

    This isn't a debate about which is better. Simply stating Beta's, previews etc are just that, unfinished products. I'll save my breath for when this is full release. If its still failing short, then I'll pipe up about it.

  13. DrXym Silver badge

    Linx 8

    I got one of these for my kid for Christmas. It's a neat little tablet considering it cost me £80. I'm somewhat mystified that I haven't seen an "update to Windows 10" icon on it though. I thought every Windows 7/8/8.1 device was eligible but nothing has shown up so far.

    The device itself runs 32-bit Windows but since Windows 10 comes in a 32-bit version I would have thought it was still eligible.

  14. Gis Bun

    Wasting our time on this useless article with a build 2 weeks old.

    1. Chika
      Trollface

      You could be right. Tomorrow's reg will probably start to fill with W10 sob stories and other giggles. Can't wait!

  15. Joe Harrison

    KB305583

    If you are not seeing the "update to Windows 10" icon you need to install KB305583. Sometimes a few registry hacks are needed as well.

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