back to article We tried using Windows 10 for real work and ... oh, the horror

Every time I've looked at Windows 10, it hasn't been long before I've run away screaming. As recently as May the ISO was nowhere near ready for prime time. Testing Windows 10 seemed to me like volunteering to be an unpaid drug trial guinea pig – it would be painful and could potentially give you horrible side effects, and you …

  1. Steve Crook

    Are you ready? Probably not.

    The more I read, the more I think I'll wait for the second service pack. No matter how much I loath Win 8 (about 5 on a scale of 10) Win10 looks scary and a heavy price to pay for access to the new DirectX.

    I can understand that a development this large must require a good deal of integration and testing, that it must be farmed out to any number of disparate groups and that some drift in aims and objectives is inevitable no matter how tight the specification. But...

    What I can't understand is how anyone at Microsoft thinks they're going to avoid a shitstorm if they release this in three weeks time. At the moment it looks like a particularly lurid stick of rock with FAIL written all the way through it.

    Is Eadon still a thing?

    1. JP19

      Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

      "The more I read, the more I think I'll wait for the second service pack"

      The more I read the more I think I'll wait for Win 7 support to end and probably then some.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

        Windows 7? - I'm still on XP - at least it has NTBackup for Tape Backup.

        1. Hollerith 1

          Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

          I just left my beloved XP box for a Windows 7 box at home and am already installing 'classic' versions. I look at the way the new stuff works and, if it's not an improvement, I find a way to go back to the old stuff. I know I am a fossil...

      2. GrumpyOldMan

        Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

        Yup. With you on that one!

      3. Seafrog

        Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

        I'm still using XP on 2 machines to actually get work done. Tried 8.1 and it doesn't work well. 7 works but not as wells as XP.

    2. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge

      Windows 10 works best

      In my experience playing with Windows 10, it works best with Classic Shell installed.

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

      There won't be a second service pack. Or a first for that matter. It'll be a continually evolving organically changing nightmare.

      1. h4rm0ny

        Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

        I don't think a Service Pack will fix this. The issues I have with it are fundamental design choices. Search bar integrated into the taskbar, hybrid and very cluttered Start Menu, Cortana intended to be a core part of the experience yet unusable unless you grant Microsoft permission to rifle through your emails and txt messages for supplementary information, the hideous inconsistency of settings between programs and OS, the unnecessary windowing of the formerly clean Metro interface.

        I am for the first time in a while seriously considering switching back to GNU/Linux for my primary desktop needs.

    4. Bob Vistakin

      Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

      2017: The year of Linux on the desktop, from seeds sown July 29th 2015.

      1. Geoff Campbell Silver badge

        Re: 2017: The year of Linux on the desktop

        What, again?


      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

        2017: The year of Linux on the desktop, from seeds sown July 29th 2015.

        Well, no, the seeds were sown when they brought out Worries for Workgroups, it's been downhill ever since :)

      3. kryptylomese

        Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

        You are all living under a stone - It has been the year of the Linux desktop for some time now:-

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

          "You are all living under a stone - It has been the year of the Linux desktop for some time now:-"

          So a few dozen examples out of how many millions of businesses.


          1. kryptylomese

            Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

            They are big companies (there are fewer Big companies than small companies).........

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

            Because everyone knows all microprocessors are designed under a Windows OS.../sarc

            sarc tag added for the perpetually clueless, and the perpetually stupid.

            No, you are not worthy to run Linux, let alone bad-mouth it in any way.

            Tell us all, other than web-surfing, all about the serious work you do on Windows...

      4. Pookietoo

        Re: The year of Linux on the desktop

        All some distro has to do is a fair impression of XP and they'll be ahead of this game.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

      Now you know why they are giving it away free, just like one of those free toys from McDonalds.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

        Now you know why they are giving it away free, just like one of those free toys from McDonalds.

        That's an exaggeration: McDonalds toys can at least keep your kid entertained for the 10 seconds it takes before they break. No such luck with Windows.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

          McDonalds toys can at least keep your kid entertained for the 10 seconds it takes before they break.

          But, with Win10 your kids can keep you entertained forever getting this & that to work .... I cannot imagine this ... thing .... being installed on my wife's computer. Being on the front of all of the tabloids, I would.

          1. Bob Dole (tm)

            Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

            >> I cannot imagine this ... thing .... being installed on my wife's computer.

            My wife would actually murder me in my sleep if I installed this on her computer. The last change we made was moving to Windows 7. She was okay with XP. When I "upgraded" her to Vista she raised holy hell. When 7 became available she settled down again with only a verbal warning about leaving it alone. She does use Office 2010 but only because she needed to be compatible.

            One day I brought home an office laptop with Win 8 on it. She used it for a few minutes to try and browse the web. Utterly failing, she calmly made a statement about no one being able to find my body. Since then I've decided that it's best for "family harmony" that we stick with Windows 7 until it is no longer possible to revive it. Hopefully the kids will be old enough to take over tech support so I'm not the one in the crossfire when that happens.

            1. David McCarthy

              Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

              I'm with you on that, Bob.

              Any mention of new Windows or Office are met with a stony silence and a finger pointing to the spare room.

              1. Hollerith 1

                Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

                Yes, because most people just want to do what they've been doing and not face another %!@#&$ learning curve AGAIN.

      2. GX5000

        Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

        Don't they understand you get what you pay for in Life ?

        That if you're not paying for it YOU are the Product ?

        END OF LINE.

    6. Planty Bronze badge

      Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

      Holding out, happy with windows 7, no need for a buggy "upgrade" that removes aero and bribgs loads of ui problems , no need for metro apps (or whatever they are called this week).

      I'm not going to be a free lab rat, falling for the free upgrade trick.

    7. David 138

      Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

      I have found it pretty good so far. I like it.

    8. Steve Crook

      Re: Are you ready? Probably not.

      Fell back over my comment and I was completely wrong about the mess Win10 would generate. Good job no-one cares one way or the other what I think. Life as a commentard is good!

  2. Howard Hanek

    Right click on the Start 'thingy' does make life simplier for those who actually WANT access to their system configuration. Not like having to go through a series of increasingly remote menus.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    We get touch even if the kit is not touch capable

    We get tiles even if we don't want them in a gazillion years

    We get Cortana when many of us will say 'Cortana go nuke yourself'.

    We get MS trying to be of so helpful everywhere and ending up getting in your way

    All I want (for Christmas) is an OS that just does not get in the way of me, you know doing stuff...

    If this goal so extreme that no one in Planet Microsoft can see that is a what a lot of users might want.

    So just give us El Reg readers an Ultra geek mode with the W7 desktop (or even Windows Classic), no tiles, no full screen apps (I have a 30in Monitor not a 5in phone).

    But will they listen?

    If The version previewed is anything to go by, then nope, not a chance in hell.

    1. Paul Shirley

      Re: So...

      The good news is MS seem to having given up breaking Classic Start Menu, which sorts out a good chunk of the vandalism. Haven't tried installing UXStyler on Win10 yet, it fixes some of the missing window chrome (like coloured title bars;), I suspect they will try to block that but fail.

      Won't be installing the shipped Win10 till long after both are working, but again I'm forced to rely on 3rd parties to fix Windows problems because MS simply chose different ways to break the UI while lying about fixing it.

    2. tfewster

      Re: So...

      "hidden menu".

      No. I have a large screen for a reason - So I can see stuff. Please don't hide it on the assumption I might be using Windows10 on a phone (where you have absolutely no change of seeing, let alone selecting it).

    3. gingeds

      Re: So...

      So you get touch capability enabled through continuum should your device support t but disabled otherwise

      You get tiles providing information from inside apps if you choose to pin them but no tiles if you don't

      You get Cortana which is linked to office 365 and can query your data update and managed your diary and ensure relevant documents are available for meetings if you enable it

      And as a user of the system I've been quite happy with many of these changes as have many other users I've spoken too. Not sure where these horrors are, besides me stability issues you'd expect in beta, many of which are go now. The OS boots at speed, apps are well integrated yes some key apps are missing but Microsoft have failed to attract developers we know this.

      In desktop mode apps run windowed not full screen. I have three 20inch monitors and the OS Tiles and all works great in later builds.

      1. Captain DaFt

        Re: So...

        Someone call Microsoft, Quick!

        We found the guy they're marketing too!

        1. John Sanders

          Re: So...

          >>Someone call Microsoft, Quick!

          >>We found the guy they're marketing too!

          There you go, coffee all over the screen again.

    4. Timmy B

      Re: So...

      You seem to have used the word "We" a lot there when you meant to have used "I".

      "I get touch even if the kit is not touch capable

      I get tiles even if I don't want them in a gazillion years

      I get Cortana when I say 'Cortana go nuke yourself'.

      I get MS trying to be of so helpful everywhere and ending up getting in my way"

      Try dealing with lots of older and infirm PC users - they don't have 30inch screens - they have normal sized ones. They actually like tiles and like the PC being a helpful thing. and there are far more of them than there are IT geeks like us.... MS has to look at more than just us when they design their OS.

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Re: So...

        The AC who posted did qualify their requirement with the 'Ultra Geek' mode.

        I am sure a good many of the readers here would like to have that feature.

        Switch off all that 'useful' stuff that MS puts in for the BSU (Bog standard User) and let us nerds/geeks get on with doing what we want to.

        I can't imagine anything worse than an open plan office with Cortana reminding everyone that the Daily Project Standup is scheduled for 10 minutes time with the voice slightly out of phase on every PC.


        Where the dinosaur Icon when it is needed?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So...

        "Try dealing with lots of older and infirm PC users - they don't have 30inch screens - they have normal sized ones."

        "Normal" size is somewhere between 19" and 24" and anything less than 22" is basically given for free from local recycling center.

        A 24" screen is around $200, that's not much.

        "MS has to look at more than just us when they design their OS."

        So something more than users, the people who actually use it. What would that be? The people who buy it for the companies but never use it as they don't have to?

        Like every version since Windows 3.0

      3. Orv Silver badge

        Re: So...

        "Try dealing with lots of older and infirm PC users - they don't have 30inch screens - they have normal sized ones. They actually like tiles and like the PC being a helpful thing. and there are far more of them than there are IT geeks like us.... MS has to look at more than just us when they design their OS."

        Except that elderly PC users don't upgrade, ever, because they don't see it as worth the bother of learning new stuff. My grandma died a couple years ago and was still using a computer running Windows 3.1. So I don't see this as a market for Windows 10.

        I do agree that pretty much anyone who reads El Reg is not the primary target market for Windows, though. That would be the average new PC buyer who is still unclear on the distinction between "memory" and "hard disk," and who is increasingly gravitating toward tablets because they seem simpler.

    5. fajensen

      Re: So...

      So just give us El Reg readers an Ultra geek mode

      That would be "Windows Server 2008"; the 2012 version have those filthy tiles shat all over it - Microsoft has really lost the plot this time. At least during the Vista fiasco the Server Editions provided an escape hatch for gamers and other people willing to pay up and now that is being bricked up and tiled over!

    6. Brandon 2

      Re: So...

      I just want to double click on an icon to run the program I want to run, and I want to be able to easily manage a little bit of data... i.e. choosing where to install things and where my music, photos, and work files get placed... how hard is that? Windows 7 works great for that.... what in the hell could windows 10 have to offer me? I really do not want to have to watch 10 hours of youtube videos just to figure out how to change a network setting or find a file i just downloaded... windows 10 (and 8) are just a huge waste of time...

  4. Roo

    Useful review

    Thank you for kicking the tires so thoroughly - and coming up with an informative review. :)

    1. dan1980

      Re: Useful review

      Yes, indeed - thank you Andrew.

      But can you explain why everything is blue?

      I mean, it was bad enough when they changed Outlook from yellow to blue so users click on it instead of Word half the time but who knows what they'll open and frustratingly have to keep closing.

      Isn't that the whole purpose of those bright - SIMPLE - tiles? To make is easy to locate what you want? I hope you can actually change the background colours now. Given the simplicity of most of the icons, there's no technical reason why that shouldn't be possible.

      Something that REALLY bugs me in Windows 8.1/2012 R2 is how you can only choose between "small" and "medium" when resizing the tiles. Why? Why can't I have Word as a "wide" tile or a "large" tile? It seems a small thing to be worked up about but the annoyance comes from the fact that the 'live' tiles can be resized as you wish. The take-away - use our new-fangled 'apps', not those antiquated program things.

      Or is that just me?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Useful review

        But can you explain why everything is blue?

        It's preparing you for how you will feel when you install it, and it lowers the contrast between it working and bluescreening - makes it less noticeable. Don't let anyone tell you that Microsoft doesn't pay attention to the User Experience, they have a whole department dedicated to making your life as miserable as possible. That's also why it has that background: it gives you back that real locked-in-the-basement feel that their executives must yearn for from their childhood..

        OK - who dosed my coffee?

        1. Vincent Ballard

          Re: Useful review

          The BSoD went purple with Win 8 (or maybe it was 8.1 - I haven't investigated in detail, but I have seen a couple on the office Surface). Have they decided to go back to blue in 10?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Useful review

        But can you explain why everything is blue?

        The designers felt that blue will form a lovely contrast with the blood spatter on the screen from users shooting themselves in the head?

      3. dubious

        Re: Useful review

        Everything is not really blue, it's an optical illusion with there being so much white.

        Win 10's so overwhelmingly white, only an anti-Desiato is going to feel comfortable using it.

    2. busycoder99

      Re: Useful review

      Yes Andrew, thanks for taking one for the team.

  5. Tom Parke

    You know the old observation that every other version of Windows was a duff one: 3.0, workgroups, 98(*), Vista, 8. Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

    (* I think the data is tweaked to fit the rule a bit by saying ME wasn't really a new version)

    1. MyffyW Silver badge

      @Tom_Parke first heard that theory about Star Trek films:

      1: Bad hair day - BAD

      2: Spock gets killed - GOOD

      3: Enterprise TWOCed. Spock not dead - BAD

      4: The freaking-Greenpeace-whale-one - GOOD

      5: Gun fights with God - BAD

      6: Shakespeare-quoting Klingons - GOOD

      7: Shatner dies. In so many ways. - BAD

      8. Borg queen seduces Data - GOOD

      9. Tedious Romulan - BAD

      I could go on...

      1. Archaon

        FYI Plastic Surgery Junkies is 9. Tedious Romulan is 10.

      2. andy gibson

        Tedious Romulan

        Tedious Romulan was 10. 9 was the planet where you didn't age because of something in the rings.

        1. Graham Dawson Silver badge

          Re: Tedious Romulan

          And it was the one that broke the pattern and made the curse universal. Every Trek since then has been mediocre at best.

      3. GothChick

        Before that it was said of AutoCAD releases, in my case by a salesman trying to flog me AutoCAD 14

        AutoCAD 10 - Good

        AutoCAD 11 - Bad

        AutoCAD 12 - Good

        AutoCAD 13 - Bad

        God I'm old, that must have been 1997!

    2. davidp231

      Win98=bad, Win98SE=good, WinME=bad. But then you have the problem of Win2k (good, but released before ME, and XP, which (eventually, admittedly), was better than 2k.

      I wonder how many niggles are still lurking around from the NT 3.51 days - the display control panel from there lasted until WinXP.

      1. GX5000

        WinME was awesome, I was at MS for the rollout and our call rates dropped by half.

        Don't believe the hype.

    3. td97402

      Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

      Yes, they most certainly did. Windows 9 should have been a return to the classic interface of Windows 7 , perhaps keeping the tweaks and optimizations under the hood from Windows 8. Basically like New Coke was replaced by Coke Classic and simply became Coke again. Where is my Windows Classic?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

        I hope you do know that the replacement for New Coke was not, not at all, Classic Coke. I have a store down the street that gets the original recipe Coke from a bottling plant in Mexico that's independent of the Coke multinational. You can tell the difference immediately once you taste it.

        1. Captain DaFt

          Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

          "the original recipe Coke from a bottling plant in Mexico"

          Yes, Mexico still uses cane sugar, instead of that High fructose corn syrup that's so beloved by corn growers in the US.

          1. Martin

            Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

            "the original recipe Coke from a bottling plant in Mexico"

            Yes, Mexico still uses cane sugar...

            And possibly still includes cocaine? Now that's what I call Coke Classic!

        2. karakalWitchOfTheWest

          Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

          Did you ever think about that either they are using 20+ years old syrup or they don't use any sanctioned coke syrup at all? Why would they have "the original" when nobody else has it???

          Coke tastes different in each country because of the water (and maybe also different syrups)

          So they also don't have anything more "original" than just another version....

          1. Phuq Witt

            F**king Coke!

            Merkinland's greatest contribution to world culture: a noxious chemical laced sugar-water, the qualities of which its obese devotees discuss as if it was fine wine.

          2. Michael Habel

            Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

            FYI The Coke down in Mexico contains a higher grade Cain Sugar, unlike the cheaper High Fructose Corn Syrup most everyone else gets.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

            Coke tastes different in each country because of the water (and maybe also different syrups)

            The real issue is actually a combination of the syrups and sugar. For example, in the US coke uses high fructose corn syrup because, well, the corn growers have to push their product somehow. In Mexico it's actually real sugar. Very different taste and one of the reasons why I prefer Mexican coke over US coke. Mexican beers are better too.

        3. icesenshi

          Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

          Coke is different for all or most countries. Coke for south america is much sweeter than what's sold stateside.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

            Coke for south america is much sweeter than what's sold stateside.

            Do addicts really care? Just curious.

          2. Michael Habel

            Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

            Coke is different for all or most countries. Coke for south america is much sweeter than what's sold stateside

            Actually... ironically its the reverse that's likely more true. Given that High Fructose Corn Syrup tends to be more highly concentrated then plain old Cain Sugar. It just happens that Corn Syrup is way cheaper to procure then the real stuff that, that gets reportedly used in Mexico. Though I gather that this use is almost extensively only used for Export to the USoA these days, and the average Mexican on the Street, is drinking the same Corn Syrup Drinks, like the rest of us.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

          "I hope you do know that the replacement for New Coke was not, not at all, Classic Coke."

          "Coca-Cola" was replaced by ""the new taste of Coke" aka New Coke.

          The replacement for New Coke was "Coca-Cola Classic" which was simply renamed to Coke in 2009.

          "Coca-Cola Classic" has High-Fructose Corn Syrup [apart from "Kosher for Passover" Coke], Old Coke had cane sugar, so no, the Coke sold after New Coke was not the same Coke as before New Coke.

          "Mexican Coke" as sold in the U.S. may have cane sugar or HFCS.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

            From my UK coke, bought today

            Carbonated Water

            Sugar (10.6g / 100ml)

            Colour (Caramel E150d)

            Phosporic Acid

            Natural Falvourings inc. Caffine

      2. Mi Tasol

        Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

        The reason for not having a Windows NEIN is obvious.

        Think of all the fun the comedians could have had with Colonel Klink and Schultz saying NEIN, NEIN, NEIN Microsoft.

        1. I&I

          Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

          Adobe CC, señor

      3. ColonelDare

        Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

        td97402 > Where is my Windows Classic?

        Ubuntu Mate.

      4. Nicholas Nada

        Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

        Judging from the screenshots, you'll have to make do with Tab Clear.

      5. Loud Speaker

        Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

        Xfce95 - the answer to you prayer?

      6. jelabarre59

        Re: Is it possible that in going from 8 to 10 they've skipped the decent release?

        > Where is my Windows Classic? ???? (yeah, just joking about that one. ReactOS will probably acchieve full WinXP compatibility in about, oh, 15 years.)

    4. Gavin King

      I thought the data was tweaked by saying 98 was dud, 98SE was good, and ME was not.

    5. Steve Crook

      Re Odd Number Versions

      Are you sure that's not Star Trek you're thinking of?

      1. hplasm

        Re: Re Odd Number Versions

        "Are you sure that's not Star Trek you're thinking of?"

        ALL versions of Windows are clunkers. Until just before the next one comes out. Funny, that.

    6. Steve Knox

      Selective data

      Why does everyone show a different list of Windows versions when making that tired old quote about every other version being good (or bad)?

      Perhaps because if you use the actual list, it's not so clear cut.

      First off, there are the major DOS-based versions:

      1, 2, 3, 95, 98, ME

      But that's not quite right, because there are minor versions with significant updates, and splits within. So you've really got:

      1, 2, 2.1(/286), 2.1(/386 -- first release with protected mode), 3, 3.1, 3.11, 3.2 (Chinese), 3.1x/3.2 with Win32 (32-bit extensions), 95, 95 SP1, 95 OSR1 (first release with IE bundled), 95 OSR2, 95 OSR2 USB Supplement, 95 OSR2.1, 95 OSR2.5, 98, 98SE, ME.

      Then in (pseudo-)parallel development, you have the NT versions:

      3*, 4, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10

      But then there are the minor versions of those:

      3.1*, 3.5, 3.51, 4.0, 2000, 2000 SP1-4, XP, XP SP1-SP3, Vista, Vista SP1-SP2, 7, 7SP1, 8, 8.1, 10

      * The first version of NT was 3.1, to keep the numbers parallel with the DOS-based version of Windows the GUI was from.

      Finally, interleaving those based on release date, you have (NT in bold)




      2.1(/386 -- first release with protected mode)



      Windows for Workgroups 3.1,3.11

      NT 3.1*

      3.2 (Chinese)

      3.1x/3.2 with Win32s (32-bit extensions halfway compatible with NT)

      NT 3.5

      NT 3.51


      95 SP1

      95 OSR1 (first release with IE bundled)

      95 OSR2

      95 OSR2 USB Supplement

      95 OSR2.1

      95 OSR2.5

      NT 4.0





      2000 SP1-4


      XP SP1-SP3


      Vista SP1-SP2






      Now, I've taken some liberties with this list, not including most x.0x releases because they generally did not include much new functionality, but NT 3.51 and all of the 95 OSRs did include some major functionality changes. Although the later NT version Service Packs often did include significant functionality changes (most notably XP SP3 which made XP somewhat secure, and Vista SP1, which made Vista actually work) but since at that point there weren't parallel versions, I combined the SPs into a single entry because that makes them a single cumulative set of functionality updates.

      So even this list is debatable, but it's a damned sight closer than any other I've seen. Still, it shows how absurd the alternating quality hypothesis is -- not because you can't come up with a list in which the odd versions are good, but because there are so many ways to crop and shuffle this list that you can just as easily come up with an equally definitive list which proves that the even versions are the good ones, or the prime-indexed ones, or whichever particular pattern you'd prefer.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Selective data

        Why does everyone show a different list of Windows versions when making that tired old quote about every other version being good (or bad)?

        Because they don't have enough time on their hands to compile such a list? :)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Selective data

        You forgot XP SP1a - the one without MSJVM.

        1. davidp231

          Re: Selective data

          And 5 SPs for 3.51, and 1-6a for NT4.

          Most stuff needs at least SP5 in the case of NT3.51, (Office 97 being an example), while most things with NT4 needed at least SP3.

    7. jbuk1

      Windows 8.1 was the release in between so it's par for the course.

      Windows 8.1 is the best OS Microsoft have ever made despite what the troglodytes say.

      Seriously, who actually uses a start menu when since Xp sp2 it's been easier to hit the windows key and type the first few letters of the app then enter. This hasn't changed in any subsequent OS and it makes me squirm to watch supposed IT people laboriously pour over the menu searching for an icon.

      1. Roo

        "Windows 8.1 is the best OS Microsoft have ever made despite what the troglodytes say."

        In terms of what's under the hood I can agree with that, it is much quicker and more efficient, night and day compared to 7. Sadly the schizo UI where both flavors are partially complete is a clusterfunt, it reminded me of the worst Linux desktops from over 15 years ago for all the wrong reasons. :(

        It's not just me either, our kids (all <7) find Win 8.1 tricky, but they're fine with Linux Mint & Mate when they borrow my lappy - despite spending 10x more time using 8.1.

        1. riparian zone

          with Classic menu, it becomes a very usable setup. 8.1 is quite swish generally, and really good on accessibility.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "the first few letters of the app then enter"

        Back to command line, eh? Just type the app name and press enter.

        Totally trivial, who needs GUI at all?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Back to command line, eh? Just type the app name and press enter.

          Totally trivial, who needs GUI at all?

          You appear to confuse "easy to use" with "efficient", and there is a VAST gap in between the two.

          Learning keyboard and text shortcuts is probably the most beneficial exercise for staff to engage in (followed immediately by learning the use of "styles" in whatever wordprocessor they have been given) as it seriously speeds up work, and cuts down on issues such as RSI - the latter is mainly caused by mice, not keyboards.

          The most direct impact the introduction of the Microsoft ribbon had in Word was that a lot of the shortcuts got changed which pretty much nuked productivity for shortcut speed users like me. Add to that the fact that on system fail I could not re-activate a copy of MS Office and the decision to ditch MS Office completely in favour of LibreOffice was easy. That was 4 years ago and it's now a company standard, which has the nice side effect that we can work across all operating systems without any significant changes.

          I know of several airlines that tried to switch to GUI booking systems in favour of the mainframe screens, and then switched back as it emerged that it was easier to get people started on it, but those who had learned mainframe codes were almost twice as fast. In other words, some upfront investment in training paid off over time in significantly higher handling speeds, plus less debugging because the GUI coders left out difficult functions. That grumpy text-only screen with 1 character menu options was FAR more efficient, especially when combined with a PC's keyboard buffer :).

          Last but not least, on OSX there really is no faster way to start up an app than using Spotlight unless you want to have all your app in the dock (which in my case would need a *very* wide screen :). It does, however, require you to known the name of the application so you may initially start off with looking them up first (digressing slightly, in that case I prefer the way Linux and Windows work over OSX as I like a bit of structure - Macs just lump it all in /Applications and tough luck if you like some structure).

          So, in summary, GUIs are easy - command lines are efficient. The two rarely meet..

          1. JEDIDIAH

            Too much irony. Irony overload has occured.

            > You appear to confuse "easy to use" with "efficient", and there is a VAST gap in between the two.

            The OP has correctly pointed out that you have reverted back to a decent command line (Unix) versus a really bad one (DOS). The visual flimflam is just a distraction from this fact.

      3. John Sanders

        Seriously, who actually uses a start menu

        People who do not know how what may be installed in the computer, or people who do not know that the system settings can be accessed via: compmgmt.cpl

        And so on.

        This stupidity of typing the first few letters of something works very well when you know what you are looking for.

      4. Lapun Mankimasta

        "Windows 8.1 is the best OS Microsoft have ever made despite what the troglodytes say.""

        Hmmm ... MS Windows 8.1 is the only Windows release I know of that regularly switches focus away from the active window, in spite of whatever activity you are pursuing in said open window.

        I wasn't previously aware that pissing off your customers was ranked so highly by Microsoft.

      5. ZeiXi

        I am one of those 'supposed IT people' who had never resorted to hitting that Windows key since everything I needed are usually placed somewhere on the desktop. Those programs I use frequently sit on the task bar. Someone else WILL squirm if they see me hitting the Windows key and type in the beginnings of the program when I could just do a single click on the icon sitting at the task bar. Together with judiciously placed shortcuts, I get my work done with minimum fuss.

      6. tirk


        "Seriously, who actually uses a start menu when since Xp sp2 it's been easier to...."

        That sounds awfully like "you're holding it wrong" to me.

        Pardon me but I'll hold/use *my* stuff the way *I* want to.

  6. nematoad Silver badge


    Phew, what a mess.

    It looks to me as if MS have decided to throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. Having said that, habitual users of Windows may find it less confusing than I did just by looking at the screen shots and reading the description. I haven't used Windows since Win98SE.

    I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with Andrew Orlowski on one point. I cannot see how MS can have this all tidied up by the 29th, maybe the upgrade really is "free" because it's a beta release and MS know it.

    Good luck and may the force be with you, you might need it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Cor.

      Not tidied up by the 29th?

      You will want to look at the plannings of my management here. With no question put to IT at all, they issued a promise plan gantt chart to re-engineer the company by ~September.

      It's mind over matter, I say! There is no spoon!!

  7. Russle

    Win10 is the worst release EVER.

    Windows 10 takes billions of hours of developer applications and makes them not compatible.

    Windows 10 is a worthless piece of junk.

    Windows 10 has NO PROGRAMS that run anymore, yet it allows you to install it anyway, even though they do not F work! A complete POS OS.

    95% of old Win7 programs DO NOT WORK.


    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Are you on drugs or something?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I agree - it looks to me like a Microsoft attack dog has mistaken Windows 10 for a Chromebook.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        It's just Eadon's new account. Check the posting history.

      3. Roo

        I reckon a bottle of Buckfast could account for those angry words, no need for "drugs". :)

      4. Steve Crook

        I just tippexed over 'Russle' on the screen and wrote 'Eadon' on top. It made perfect sense after that.

      5. Steven Raith

        No just a serial MS troll.

        Tragic really.

    2. Mark 85

      I want to downvote your rant, but I'll give you an upvote for the best Eadon imitation of the year.... so far.

    3. keithpeter Silver badge


      Is that you, Eadon?

      PS: OA was interesting reading, thanks.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      But apart from that, it seems to be OK...

      I think...

    5. Nunyabiznes

      Apparently the answer to Steve C's question "Is Eadon still a thing?" is Yes.

    6. colinb

      Cry for help?

      Seek help. There are people who care,

      Just not here.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Still heads-or-tails for me. Based on previous experience, I'm probably not going to even look at it until SP1. They haven't -for me- got the start menu right since XP...I can remember where a program is; but not necessarily what it's called.

    It also seems to be focussing on cloudy MS services and a big part of my personal decision is whether you can turn all that shit off or not.

    From the sounds of things, they still have some saving to do; but it's early days.

    (P.S. Andrew - you forgot to link "proper map data (licensed from HERE)" on P7)).

    1. Snivelling Wretch


      Yes, I read it like that too, but then I remembered that "HERE" was Nokia's mapping software. There's a link to HERE here, so there.

    2. td97402

      RE: I'm probably not going to even look at it until SP1

      Unfortunately they've adopted this Windows as a service model and you'll never see another Service Pack. Instead they are going to dribble out updates and patches and new features continuously.

      1. Dave K

        Re: RE: I'm probably not going to even look at it until SP1

        Heh, I've heard that one before. The thing is, if a product gets a bad reputation, sometimes the only option is to fix it and re-release it with a new name so that people think it's a brand new product and approach it with a fresh/open mind. Never count against MS doing that if they feel that Windows 10 is not taking off as they'd hoped.

        After all, fixed/updated Vista was called Windows 7 (with only a .1 increment in the NT version number), Windows 8.2 was shelved, expanded and renamed to Windows 10, etc.

        1. davidp231

          Re: RE: I'm probably not going to even look at it until SP1

          And the NT version number is now 10. I think it changed in either the 2nd or 3rd beta release.

    3. Kanhef

      'HERE' is actually the name of the map company: . Still could use a link, though.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Let me get this right...


    * Windows Vista irritated and alienated any Windows XP users who upgraded.

    * Windows 7 made Windows Vista a bad dream and XP users liked it too. Success for Microsoft!

    * Windows 8 confused and alienated nearly all of the remaining Windows XP and current Windows 7 users.

    * Windows 8.1 slightly helped the confusion but alienated the very few Windows 8 users who bravely took the plunge, and still didn't tempt anyone else.

    * Windows 9 doesn't exist at all, which was fine, no-one cared... until..

    * Windows 10 still doesn't work, and confuses everyone: people who don't use Windows at all wonder where Windows 9 has got to; those who struggled to learn and like Windows 8 have to struggle and learn all over again; and those who are still on Windows XP or Windows 7 will be alienated and frustrated, but in a different way than if they'd gone through the full harrowing upgrade path.

    I'll admit, I'm not in marketing or product design, but I probably wouldn't have gone for this approach.

    1. John Savard

      Re: Let me get this right...

      However, since there is just so much software out there that is written for Windows, and when you buy a program for Windows, there's no guarantee that it will run under WINE - I think Windows software makers feel that testing their programs under WINE, and putting a penguin on their boxes if it works there too would get Microsoft annoyed with them -

      these past events have not been enough to get people to switch from Windows to Linux. After all, Windows is included "free" when you buy your computer.

      Still, if this keeps on, people may end up switching to Linux, at least when they would otherwise feel the need to upgrade. (Hey, making the upgrade to Windows 10 free suddenly sounds like a great idea!)

      The Microsoft monopoly can't go on forever, not if they keep going on like this. It may have only 50 years of life left.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Jahon Savard - Re: Let me get this right...

        People switching to Linux ? No chance in hell! Remember the story with the frog in water that is slowly getting hotter and hotter ? I think by know they can take any imaginable amount of abuse from Microsoft and always managing to find a good justification for that.

      2. BobChip

        Re: Let me get this right...

        You are right - Wine supports only a few Win programs really well, though it is brilliant for lots of useful little Win desktop applets. However Codeweaver's Crossover Pro (think of it as Wine on steroids) does an excellent job of supporting masses of Win software, including many games. It's not free, but it is well worth the price.

        Speaking as someone who has lived in a Linux world for years, but still likes to play some of the old Windows games.

    2. F Seiler

      Re: Let me get this right...

      That last sentence there is pretty golden.

  10. Leeroy

    Nice timing

    After upgrading everything possible to win 8 from mostly xp and almost finished migrating to server 2012 the gits throw windows 10 into the mix.

    No I can't move to penguin land unfortunately :/ (our service management and support systems run on Centos vm's but anything the boss needs to see is flipping windows).

    Good article though but I may wait until 10.1 before the 'free' upgrade :)

    1. Fatman

      Re: Nice timing

      <quote>but anything the boss needs to see is flipping windows).</quote>

      Then get rid of that boss, and get one who isn't married to that P-O/S.


    2. kryptylomese

      Re: Nice timing

      Let the game makers make their software compatible e.g. Steam

      A good trick BTW is to install Steam under WINE then Steam Windows games on Linux can be installed too.

      Software written for Linux instead of other platforms that is being run on Linux is normally very solid and in some cases much better than the equivalent (Office crashes or freezes up on Windows, not on Linux!)

      Lots of big companies have switched and I am seeing more and more smaller ones switching too.

      This is not VHS vs Betamax - This is the software that is run on the most powerful computers in the world (Linux) that can also run on a desktop verses the latest version of a long line of desktop and small scale server software that really does not compare well!

  11. Jediben

    Has anyone checked that games work yet? I genuinely don't care if the menu us fucked but if my steam catalogue is rendered useless then I am not going near it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Seem fine so far. Needed new drivers, but FIFA 15's running as was on 8.1, testing Arkham Knight (I'm apparently using the dev test rig, as I have few problems), and Witcher 3.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Has anyone checked that games work yet?

      Given not even the browser works properly yet and the weird monitor problems mentioned in the review, I'd hazard a guess: no, games don't work.

    3. Paul Shirley

      I don't believe Microsoft can afford to break games, part of the ongoing strategy is to migrate gamers on to Win10 as soon as possible, by restricting DX12 to Win10 so they have no choice. Killing existing gaming along the way wrecks that plan. Without it they can forget about tying the XBox, phone and PC ecosystem together and that's why everyone including Microsoft is going through the pain of Win8 then 10.

    4. Radelix

      No issues here with my steam library on my older gaming rig

    5. thtechnologist

      Over 40 different games tested, 0 issues.

    6. Kumar2012

      I'm running my Win 10 in a VM but good idea to test, will have to copy over my steam catalog to the VM and see how it goes.

    7. Tony Paulazzo


      Bejewelled 3 refuses to install, but you can buy it again from the app store, which probably works ok. Witcher is ok, plus the mmos I have, ESO, GW2, The secret world.

      Windows 10 is not ready for primetime tho', glitchy as all heck, flat and uninspired look, and no over riding design ethos.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: games

        Buying it from the app store = having a MIcrosoft account and partaking in Microsoft's ecosystem.

        What's wrong with installing the classic PopCap Games, pre-EA, win32 version of Bejeweled 3, hm? After all, this is Windows, right?

      2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

        Re: Bejewelled 3 refuses to install, but you can buy it again

        Buying a game you already own and came out only last year just so it runs on a new OS is NOT an acceptable solution.

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Don't know about the modern stuff, but Halo installed, and runs, just fine. And as an added bonus, it gives me a version of Cortana that works.

    9. gingeds

      Steam runs fine as does Games for Windows. Graphics are smooth not had any issues with Crisis 3, Tomb Raider or Final Fantasy. One problem with Star Craft but am using a SP3 and had the same issues with Win 8.1 and that game on it

    10. David Austin

      Apart from the traditional issues with nVidia Drivers on RC versions of Windows being buggy as heck, yes.

      Steam runs fine, and not had any 2D or 3D games I've tried fail yet.

      If you do have any metro games, some of them are upset at the moment, as they can't handle resizable windows, and glitch out (Hello, Sonic Dash) - Sure they'll get fixed soon after RTM.

  12. Roland6 Silver badge

    Don't see any real work being done or even attempted...

    Whilst there is much that will be made of the UI/UX a big part W10 will be it's ability to support the mundane stuff, namely existing applications like Office 2010/13, so it would of been useful if Andrew had attempted to install these or even attempt to use the Office 2016 preview versions his build included.

    Remember whilst W8/8.1 has a poor UI/UX once someone understands the basics and if necessary has ClassicShell installed, they simply live with it and get on using MS Office/LibreOffice, Oracle/Sage etc. etc.

    So the real question which this article hasn't shed much light on is does the OS (W10) get in the way of doing real work? Or will it need third-party add-ons to make it usable...

  13. johnwerneken

    The UI doesn't concern me all that much.

    Windows 10 10162

    The UI doesn't concern me all that much. IMHO the whole idea of a GUI sucks, all of em, from first principle (images have value, which they do not) to the last implication (as stated, which dots hide what WTF could guess!).

    Win 10 10162 does however run all my old aps just fine, and a few of the TIKFAM (The Interface Formerly Known As Modern) aps show promise. The concept of one general platform for multiple form factors appeals, a lot. The idea of cannibalizing aps and features from other platforms, android, iCraptraption, DumbPhone, that's a good move.

    I think those new to pc's would have no problem with this. That could be important.

    I think the BYOD thing might be more manageable with win 10 on them and in the enterprise as well.

    I have noted that win 10 has seemed all along to be more robust and generally crash-resistant than anything from MS since 3.11

    And yes most of the joint-concept features bells whistles and stupid UI tricks ARE either weird, buggy, inconsistent, or two or all three of those.

    But I can now imagine this appealing, as a toolkit of sorts to make it more likely that the majority of applications for any particular environment will be in most respects available and more or less fully functional on all the others.

    IF MS hardware side can demo devices that show this thing of, then I think it's established as an option.

    AND MS clearly are paying more attention to user/potential purchaser/developer concerns than at any time since MS was in the early days of wine-and-dine with folks like me, in hopes we'd pitch their pc-based stuff to our bosses for use in enterprise settings.

  14. RyszrdG

    Move on there - nothing to see

    Unless you are a dedicated follower of BDSM it seems that MS have finally achieved the impossible - a release that no-one in their right mind would take on free or otherwise. Me? I'm staying with Linux for rock solid stability and productivity, with Windows 7 on an old laptop for those odd apps that are only available from misguided suppliers who think that that sun still shines out of MS's ass.

    1. razorfishsl

      Re: Move on there - nothing to see

      you can say that........

      but linux sucks ass in a business environment where you have customers using windows word & excel.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Move on there - nothing to see

        "but linux sucks ass in a business environment where you have customers using windows word & excel."

        You do know that many servers in the enterprise environment are running Linux, don't you?

        Besides, since The CLOUD is in fashion these days, and everything is on The CLOUD, the OS you run shouldn't really matter now, should it?

        1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

          Re: You do know that many servers in the enterprise environment are running Linux, don't you?

          You do know that users never sit in front of a server, don't you ?

          Linux will be contained in the server room for a while yet.


      2. Kubla Cant

        Re: Move on there - nothing to see

        linux sucks ass in a business environment where you have customers using windows word & excel

        Here's a horror story that shows how sadly true this is.

        I recently received a plain text email inviting me to a webex meeting at 06:00 BST on a Monday morning. I concluded that it was either a considerate attempt to avoid interrupting everyone's working day, or some kind of power-play. Either way, I decided I had to attend as it was important and there were lots of other people involved, so I hauled myself out of bed at 5:00 am to prepare. By 6:30 I was still the only attendee, and I was sick of the hold music on the phone, so I gave up.

        When I checked with another invitee, he said "It shows as 2:00 pm in my calendar" (by which he meant Outlook). It seems Microsoft's ploy to make everyone use Outlook is to plague non-users with incorrect and inconvenient invitations. It's obviously not a timezone problem: the invite specifically said BST, and the originating computer is also running on BST.

    2. MJI Silver badge

      Re: Move on there - nothing to see

      Do you mean the people who play with the base of OSX and Orbis OS?

  15. Haku

    That desktop wallpaper looks...ominous

    Like part of a poster design for a supernatural horror film.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: That desktop wallpaper looks...ominous

      It represents a solar sail, showing that the main driving force behind this version is the light from previous ones.

    2. Frumious Bandersnatch

      Re: That desktop wallpaper looks...ominous

      Very. My first thought was "Event Horizon".

  16. DButch


    Try out Start10 from Stardock - creates a nice, compact, Windows 7 (or XP) style start menu. Much easier to use on larger screens (not free, but not very expensive either). There are a couple of other people who have created Windows start replacements.

  17. Neil Barnes Silver badge

    Hierarchical start menu...

    is it so difficult?

    Or is this just the next stage in the gradual merging of application and data?

  18. Phoenix50

    Confirmed..., not that Windows 10 is crap, but confirmed that they truly, truly could never win, no matter what they do.

    Andrew notes they've not been guided by a dictatorship - so instead they've been guided by all of us!

    Yes, that's right - the largest community-driven, feedback friendly development cycle in the HISTORY of Windows and Microsoft and apparently they've STILL got it all wrong.

    I simply, completely and utterly



    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Confirmed...

      Mob rule is always a bad idea. So is least common denominator.

      Here we have both.


      1. Groaning Ninny

        Re: Confirmed...

        Indeed. The wisdom of the masses is frequently pretty unwise.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I see nothing that indicate that MS has rediscovered the simple fact that beginner-friendly is something very different from user-friendly. A core feature of an OS is to form a foundation for application user-friendliness. For productivity in most work environments I'd take an updated XP with bugfixes, optimisations and drivers for recent hardware over any of the more recent versions of windows. I don't mind visual updates at all, but I do mind about inefficiency. It gets serious when OS (and application) inefficiency is eating into people's work hours to the extent that they no longer can do their job properly. I've seen many experienced users, even after months of practise with new systems, in despair because common tasks in their job take 3 or 4 times longer than before.

    1. Anonymous Coward

      I've seen many experienced users, even after months of practise with new systems, in despair because common tasks in their job take 3 or 4 times longer than before.

      We've a few machines around here that no one else will touch unless it's either flat impossible to do with software older than Windows 8/Office 2003/etc., or it's the last machine available. I wish it were not the case, but the UI/UX/whatever-damned-marketing-phrase-comes-next breakage in user training/comprehension is beyond being reasonable. Which is why, despite having others play with it as well, Windows 10 is dead-on-arrival. As for myself, a VM and that's as far as it goes so I can at least suss out answers, but this isn't my first, or fifteenth for that matter, desktop upgrade rodeo.

      Way back when desktop computing was new, one of the first considerations after collecting what/how/when of (business/technical) processes was presentation to the user. Yes, retraining was going to feature large but the most basic consideration was where the new process fit into their expectations and the (corporate/technical) culture. There's a lot of friction involved in any re-engineering/re-imagining (more marketing speak) of how to do something better (for certain dimensions of better ;-). Early process changes usually involved presentation of business documents on screen so the old interfaced well with the new from the user perspective. Later iterations could/would deviate but in no case was a radical change involved. Frankly, short of firing all the old workers, any change that radical wouldn't be accepted by the users and if forced, well they have feet which they can drag in in using it or, worse, a collective beat feet, unless that was the objective in the first place. I've wondered if in a few cases that wasn't the intent (see outsourcing).

      Sure, Microsoft needed to sell upgrades so they could tap that cash flow. Now? Not so much, especially if they get costs down for Support (or have subscription fees, which ain't happening except for Office). I don't think they've adjusted to the new paradigm. Support costs are going to be huge, so where else are they saving costs to justify this 'free' upgrade or what new revenue stream is out there has me scratching my head.

  20. smot



  21. gfx

    I have the Windows 10 preview on a PC to try it out but spend most of the time

    running Ubuntu or linux mint on the same machine. Which is easier to install and quicker to update.

  22. Terry 6 Silver badge

    Sounds a bit rough, but that's not what bothers me.

    What does bother me is when they make an annoying design decision that serves no purpose, but has to be used. In this case it sounds like it's not that there are tiles in the start menu, but that you can't put the bloody things where you want them as in Winphone 8.1 ,, .

    Or as in Windows 8.1 - where tiles can't be moved around by drag and drop, Like when a new install creates its own folder, just for its precious self. It has to be "right click, open location, move tile through the tree, go back, delete folder". i.e. There is absolutely no f***king reason why they couldn't just let us manage our own desk top and start menu the way that we want it.

    I like Microsoft in general. But they do seem to have this mantra that things have to go where they want to put them, often for no rational reason, and not where users want to find them. Why else would they have by default muddled documents and settings together into the same place, buried several layers down. A good place for "their " settings but absolutely wrong for "my documents".

    More to the point, having made that sort of decision they make it as difficult as possible for ordinary users to reorganise. (And sometimes even for tecchie users - why else make it so difficult to create custom versions of traditional Ribbon menus in Office?)

    1. Glenturret Single Malt

      Re: Sounds a bit rough, but that's not what bothers me.

      "as in Windows 8.1 - where tiles can't be moved around by drag and drop"


      I have just left this fascinating document for a moment to confirm that I created my own categories of tiles and moved the tiles into each one by dragging and dropping and that I can still move them around. Yes, confirmed.

      1. Terry 6 Silver badge

        Re: Sounds a bit rough, but that's not what bothers me.

        Badly expressed. I meant the icons in the Modern interface rather than the tiles. (Sort of what passes for a start menu).

        I'll give myself a downvote for lousy explanation. ( and leave the original in place rather than withdrawing it and posting an amended version.)

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm a little bit ashamed to admit but

    I managed to tame windows 8.1 by getting rid of all the tiles, nonsense modern apps and booting directly to desktop. It's as close to Win7 as it could ever be if to learn not to click on the fake start button. Now from what I've read in this article Windows 10 has a great potential to be horribly annoying for someone who only needs a regular desktop for his normal computing needs.

  24. TaabuTheCat

    One thing you didn't show...

    Is the "Optional" setup screen when you first install the OS - you know, the one they bury as deep as possible so you'll just install the OS with the "take all my data" defaults. Any review really needs to show the settings on that screen so you can see what Microsoft takes without really asking. How many users are ever going to see that screen?

  25. MatsSvensson

    Non starter

    The start-thing blows in the preview.

    If i

    I update, it will be in spite of the UI, not because of it.

  26. Queeg

    Have to say...

    From what I've seen of the Windows 10 builds my opinion hasn't really changed from the initial one.

    It still looks like the bastard child of Vista and 8.1.

    I'm not saying it's not an improvement on the last OS, obviously there are things that look and feel


    Unfortunately for Microsoft an OS has to do more than just look good, it pretty much has to work straight out of the box for the ordinary guy* in the street.

    If he can't play his games/music watch his movies check out the family photo collection he's

    sending to Aunty Rose in Australia, surf, chat, tweet, waffle, troll or outherwise interact with the rest

    of his tribe the first thing he's going to say when anyone asks what the new OS is like is,

    "It's crap, I'm wiping it and going back to Windows 7".

    It doesn't matter what the IT press finally descide after Win 10's launch.

    It doesn't even matter if Win 10 turns out to be God's gift 6 months down the road.

    If enough of Joe public thinks it "crap" on or just after release it'll nose dive the same as Vista.

    Free** doesn't always mean good after all.

    *Generic term (He/She/We/Whatever)

    *Terms and Conditions apply.

  27. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge


    But I cannot see a single reason to get windows 10

    (I'm running win7 on this desktop and Fedora 14 on the dev box, and centos 6.whatever on my laptop).

    I've looked many times at updating my 2 linux PCs with a newer version, and cant see for the life of me how gnome3 or unity will make my job easier, and I'm comparing the screen images of windows 10 with windows 7 and thinking the same damn thing.

    If I want a tablet/phone interface, I'd buy a tablet or a phone and expect the software to show a tablet style UI, a desktop PC and I'd want a desktop UI, not some 1/2 way mish mash.

  28. Kaltern

    As 10 has DirectX 12, it will be very good for games - even DX 11 games show some improvement.

  29. td97402

    Isn't this the way software is done these days?

    Have you not seen the new Apple Music release on iOS (or iTunes 12 on Mac/PC)? Calling it a disjointed, confusing mess is me being nice. Windows 10 is much the same. Both seemed to have been built in sections with little time or thought devoted to the overarching design.

    Speaking of design, it seems that the artistic design people run things at Apple, and oh does MS want to be like Apple. I once appreciated the minimalist design out of Cupertino but since iOS 7, not so much, and there's MS following right along in their footsteps. Come on guys, fresh? Clean? Modern? What about FUNCTIONAL? Freaking 30 years of GUI engineering and design tossed out the window in favor of the Metro UI? How many times will MS iterate through wholesale batches of tweaks trying to shoehorn a so-so phone UI onto the desktop?

    Here's a shout out to MIcrosoft: After more than 20 years of being a loyal Windows user, I no longer have a Windows computer in my house.

    1. Roger Greenwood

      Re: Isn't this the way software is done these days?

      " disjointed, confusing mess " is what we now call quirky.

      If you make things look different sometimes it's easier to remember where you are, especially for those of us who like visual clues rather than remember command names. Having said that you can take quirky too far . . .

  30. Kumar2012

    Want the normal start menu...

    you can get rid of all the tiles from the start menu (right click.. .close) and drag the extra space left, back to the main start menu, and viola you have the same old start menu...

    1. hplasm

      Re: Want the normal start menu...

      And if you want a Peugeot 206, take any small crappy car, and get an elephant to sit on it.

  31. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    I installed a previous build on a little Atom box, mostly to see if installing FreeBSD would detect & dual boot another OS (it would). Even after several updates it couldn't find my printer & NAS box. So this evening I decided to install the latest version.

    Same bully-boy Windows installer attitude - just blow away the existing boot sector. Does it now find the printer & NAS box? How would I know? As of a couple of minutes ago it was still running the post-install setup. I could have installed Linux in a fraction of the time - no, I could have installed Linux, FreeBSD and SCO, one after the other, in less time. And SCO, as I remember it, was a long-winded installation.

    1. Ian 55

      'just blow away the existing boot sector'

      Has anyone ever sued them over that?

      I don't remember ever being asked if the Windows installer could crap over it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 'just blow away the existing boot sector'

        Like Linux overwrites the Windows? Seems to me the complaints come from that direction, i.e. Windows users, while the bollocks comes from the Linux. They overwrite each other, the difference being you can install grub to whichever MBR or partition and use whichever, which only the geeks will know, so it's the Windows users trying a Linux dual boot lose in the bootloader wars. Still, bleat bleat bleat evil Microsoft, eh?

        (I've dual booted Win/Lin for years, and Microsoft is evil).

        1. JEDIDIAH

          Re: 'just blow away the existing boot sector'

          Linux will only overwrite Windows if you tell it to. Otherwise, it will leave it in place and give you a boot manager that acknowledges the existence of other operating systems and includes them in your boot options.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: 'just blow away the existing boot sector'

            And when they decide they don't like Linux and remove it they need a Windows geek to restore the Windows bootloader, because like the anti-Windows commentators, the OS doesn't give a toss either once they don't want Linux. As such that Linux still boots Windows is irrelevant. The Linux user installing Windows knows enough to avoid problems; the Windows user installing Linux doesn't (mostly). The real world situation is all that matters, not the childish effort to denigrate Microsoft's vastly superior market-share.

  32. graeme leggett Silver badge

    " Photoshop 7 (from 2002) ...only installed on the 32bit Windows 10 after "thinking about it" for almost 10 minutes. "

    I think you've had your money's worth from that purchase. Still more or less working after 13 years is quite good.

  33. Andus McCoatover

    Well,it floated my boat....

    OK, haven't updated release since June, (and temporarily don't use that computer at the moment) I liked it.

    Snappier to me than Win-7 SP1.

    But, I only use Firefox, LibreOffice, Cadsoft Eagle, Notepad+ and Atmel Studio 6,2 (Plus a few necessary addons - Arduino IDE, Flip, Dropbox etc) - all of which worked flawlessly.

    As for Caterina, Cortina, Cornea, Catrina, whatever...I can't presently use it (her?) in my locale (Non-US) so I think a blessing.

    I SHALL be installing it, but dual-boot, if the release ISO lets me. Certainly that's how I used it previously, but I never went back to Win-7, IIRC.

    And, as I'm on the dole, with a hobby of scouring junkyards*, I found a rather nice big Acer Travelmate dual-core effort slung away. After getting it to (finally) boot (stuck key), and removing every virus, trojan, malware, stuxware etc. known to mankind, then using Vistalizator ( to convert its Finnish OS to Gods Own Language** it is almost ready for its free installation of Windows-10. Unfortunately, it runs Vista (painful!), so I'm out scouring more rubbish skips for a Windows-7 or -8 licence sticker before July 28...

    * I find quite a few good laptops, usually with stupid faults like a key stuck down by coffee (I hope!) loose memory card, HD trashed, or the DVD won't eject - most less than a couple of years old.

    ** R.F.Delderfield: God Is An Englishman. Essential read. As are all his books.

    1. hplasm

      Re: Well,it floated my boat....

      "I'm out scouring more rubbish skips for a Windows-7 or -8 licence sticker before July 28..."

      Just wait- you'll get the Win 10 iso soon- in AOL disc like piles, probably.

  34. jason 7

    Will people please note...

    ....there are no more service packs. Windows hasn't had what we would call a Service pack since 2010?

    It will just be continuous features and updates as they come out.

  35. Innocent-Bystander*

    Settings, Settings Everywhere

    It's not a terrible dist... ahem release, but that whole thing about having some of the settings in the settings app, others in the control panel has been p*ssing me off since Windows 8.

    Oh well, it wouldn't be Microsoft if they didn't try to fix what ain't broke.

    1. Glenturret Single Malt

      Re: Settings, Settings Everywhere

      "having some of the settings in the settings app, others in the control panel has been p*ssing me off since Windows 8."

      I agree that it is an annoying feature of W10. There is no Settings app in my currently fully up to date W8.1 (apart from right click on the Windows symbol which gives shortcuts to some of the things that are in Control Panel anyway). So I don't understand how you can have been p*ssed off.

  36. BigDataDave

    I've moved my wife, kids, and parents to Chromebooks as a more acceptable option than what MSFT is offering. I believe that MSFT is at a new Coke moment, and I'm no longer willing to drink the CoolAid.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "I've moved my wife, kids, and parents to Chromebooks"

      It does annoy me somewhat that the mobile phone companies using Android won't provide backup and transfer programs that work with Chrome OS, or just Chrome. Having to have Windows in order to back up a Linux based device seems just silly, especially as the ones I've tried (Kies, Sony PC Companion) are to say the least clunky. Though not as clunky as the BlackBerry equivalent. I just want to backup and restore a phone to an external SD through a browser. Can it be that difficult?

  37. This post has been deleted by its author

  38. Darryl

    To be fair...

    Photoshop 7 has always given me grief with installing on Win7 64 bit - Windows redirects it to 'Program Files (x86)', which it's supposed to do, but PS7 doesn't like being anywhere but 'Program Files'. It's been a while - can't remember how to work around it.

    1. David 132 Silver badge

      Re: To be fair...

      Photoshop 7 has always given me grief with installing on Win7 64 bit -

      It's been a while since I had to re-install my trusty genuine copy of PS7, but ISTR the 7.01 update is necessary for installation on x64.

      It still has a problem with larger hard drives; if free space is beyond some large-by-2002-standards amount, PS7 complains that the drive is full. The workaround is to save to a different drive. As mentioned above... it's 13 years old, so we can overlook its quirks!

      As for Win10, I posted my thoughts on it a couple weeks ago over on the forums. It's better than 8, in the same way that the Flu is better than Ebola, but it's far too privacy-invasive for my liking. Just about every one of the capabilities in 10 requires a Microsoft account and upload of all your contacts/history/data to the cloud. No thanks.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: To be fair... It's better than 8, in the same way that the Flu is better than Ebola

        Perhaps not the best analogy, as influenza currently kills a lot more people than does Ebola. It's a bit like the mosquito being the most dangerous animal, and the wolf and shark being almost harmless because you are so unlikely to meet one in an eating people mood.

        1. David 132 Silver badge

          Re: To be fair... It's better than 8, in the same way that the Flu is better than Ebola

          Perhaps not the best analogy, as influenza currently kills a lot more people than does Ebola.

          You are technically correct (the best kind of correct). But which would you rather have inflicted upon you?

          Although I'll admit that when it comes to analogies, metaphor and simile, I'm of the William Topaz McGonagall school.

    2. Tom 64

      Re: To be fair...

      The solution to that one is simple. Install CS2, which is free (as in beer) and has zero issues.

      1. David 132 Silver badge

        Re: To be fair...

        The solution to that one is simple. Install CS2, which is free (as in beer)

        Thanks for the pointer. I'd got it into my head years ago for some reason that CS2 wasn't really free - something to do with Adobe screwing up an upgrade key authentication scheme and inadvertently allowing anyone to get it? goodness knows where that came from! - but didn't ever bother to check my assumptions, because PS7 works fine-ish for me.

        I will investigate. Have a pint, free (as in CS2).

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: To be fair...

          Well technically it isn't free, since you are supposed to have a licence to install it. But i doubt Adobe will send the lawyers to the door if you do install it, and it is a better cost option than Photoshop CC

  39. KegRaider
    Thumb Up

    Odd, I find it a lot better than Windows 8. I have replaced all of my Windows 7 machines at home (5), with the Insider Preview (started playing in December '14), and the latest Build 10162 looks amazing. Not a fanboy, but I personally cannot wait for the final product.

    1. hplasm

      Not a fanboy, but...

      ...getting there.

  40. Mage Silver badge


    It's a mess.

  41. KegRaider

    I have installed Steam, Origin, Blizzard and UPlay and have had zero gaming issues. Not sure what all the complaints are about. The interface is rather intuitive, if you spend a few minutes playing around.

    1. hplasm

      "Not sure what all the complaints are about."

      That's because your PC is a toy.

  42. Deryk Barker

    This simply reinforces the decision I made 20 years ago to jump ship to linux.

  43. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    On leave in August

    I go on leave for all of August. This at least gives me one whole month of other peoples feedback I can check on my return to help me decide whether to upgrade or not.

    As for those saying wait for SP1, I don't think service packs will be a thing for Windows 10. It will just get gradually upgraded "as a service".

  44. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Hmm. I thought I'd posted one comment here earlier but don't see it.

    I installed an earlier build on a little Atom test box, partly to check on being able to set up FreeBSD dual boot.

    It couldn't see either my printer (HP 3020 on a JetDirect box) or my NAS. Initially I couldn't even set the network mask so it could see their IP addresses. It could see my router & saw that it could be a media server (it shows it twice, once for each function) and it could also see my wireless AP. Updates allowed setting of network mask but no joy with printer or NAS.

    One positive note was that it would allow me to install a lot of ancient Windows applications (I only have ancient versions of Windows stuff). There's a compatibility dialog to allow it to install as if it was one of several various earlier versions of Windows. This included Lotus Smartsuite (I said ancient) and Office 97 from a competitive upgrade disk (remember those?). It looks as if a lot of legacy programs might run.

    I tried installing the current build from scratch. Same old installer bully-boy approach - blows away the existing boot loader but doesn't bother to check for other OSes.

    Slow, slow, slow, slow, SSSSSLLLLLOOOOOWWWWW. Not only could I have installed Linux in a fraction of the time, I could have installed Linux, FreeBSD and SCO one after the other - and IIRC SCO was a really long-winded install.

    It still doesn't find anything extra on the network automatically. I managed to set the network drive up going through the old settings window which is accessible as a sort of footnote via the new flat version. Manual addition of the printer got as far as driver selection - it didn't have the driver but offered to look for it via Windows Update which was also slow etc & I knocked it on the head after a while. Eventually I downloaded the 8.1 driver from HP and that worked. I haven't tried using the scanner.

    The tile part of the start menu can be got rid of. Just unpin each tile in turn and then resize the window. The rest of the menu is still cumbersome.

    It looks as if it can be arm-wrestled into working but I won't be keeping it. For the limited amount of stuff that I occasionally have to use Windows for it'll be either the Win7 VM or even the W2K VM.

  45. Candy

    Waiting for SP1?

    That may not work out so well for you.

    MS claims that there will be continuous updates like those we have become used to on mobile platforms. Yes, there is a LTS version but it comes without a whole ton of stuff including Edge.

    It remains to be seen how often installer ISOs will be released for the non-enterprise versions so perhaps, just perhaps, you could wait for a few of those to roll by? Or the odd security rollup?

    But features will not be dropped by waterfall delivery in the way that they have in the past.

    Service Pack? They don't need no stinkin' Service Pack.


    1. John Tserkezis

      Re: Waiting for SP1?

      "MS claims that there will be continuous updates"

      Like that worked out just great. I had a Windows RT tablet that had the WiFi borked by a windows update. Yep, your only connection to the outside world no longer works. I had to go through each and every update, read up on the description and users' reviews, and guess which one did it.

      I found the offending update and disabled it, but needed another box with a working internet connection and some spare time I didn't have. For the average home user who doesn't have two computers? Screw you.

      Uninstalling one service pack is easier than working out which of the thousand updates bent you over.

      1. David 132 Silver badge

        Re: Waiting for SP1?

        I found the offending update and disabled it, but needed another box with a working internet connection and some spare time I didn't have. For the average home user who doesn't have two computers? Screw you.

        From what I understand from Microsoft, Home users won't have the ability to decline or defer updates to Windows 10 - patching will be automatic, mandatory, and continuous. And this won't be limited to security fixes.

        Random changes to the user interface from one week to the next as the Sinofsky disciples decide everything, even Command Prompt, needs a ribbon interface and touch-friendly GREAT BIG BUTTONS. App du jour spontaneously appearing on your machine because Microsoft want to get more people using Skype/OneDrive/whatever and feel that a mechanism for distributing vital security patches is an appropriate channel. Patches that b0rk your machine because you have an odd combination of printer driver and video card that MS couldn't foresee. "Would you like to reboot now or in 10 minutes' time" prompts interrupting your gaming.

        I'm sorry. I know I come across as a total Luddite. But dealing with this stuff just isn't fun any more.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Waiting for SP1?

          "From what I understand from Microsoft, Home users won't have the ability to decline or defer updates to Windows 10 - patching will be automatic, mandatory, and continuous. And this won't be limited to security fixes"

          Screenshots here make it seem like it will be similar to current - customizable

          but if you have a link where MS sets out their stall on compulsory updating, I would like to read it.

          1. David 132 Silver badge

            Re: Waiting for SP1?

            No link (I was told this by a Microsoft staffer at a recent tech training event) so file this under "uncorroborated" if you like.

            What they told us is that:

            - Home / small-business users will have no ability to decline/defer patches, hence my rant above.

            - Enterprise / Managed IT users (on the Windows 10 "business" track) will have the normal mechanisms as used today - WSUS, GPOs, the whole shebang.

            Perhaps the screenshots you found reference the latter variant?

          2. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: Waiting for SP1?

            >"From what I understand from Microsoft, Home users won't have the ability to decline or defer updates to Windows 10 - patching will be automatic, mandatory, and continuous. And this won't be limited to security fixes"

            Screenshots here make it seem like it will be similar to current - customizable"

            The screenshots are of Windows 10 PRO.

            Otherwise I agree we do need to actually see some evidence or basis for the original claim. Suspect we may have to wait until Home is released when we can take a look at the settings provided for WUP. But if correct, I'm sure a firewall rule will be sufficient to block daily updates...

  46. magfirefox

    Omg, Microsoft, Stop Messing With Me!

    They're insane! After reading this article I stopped to calmly review my emotions, and I feel stressed out. Win 10 is going to be lots more work! Win 8 sucked ass, and it was a lot more work than Win 7. Now it's the same thing with Win 10. They aren't making it any easier, just more work! All I want to do is turn on the comp, and see a nice, mostly blank screen, with a few icons on it, and a Start button. I don't want all the lunacy. I was signed up to download Win 10 on July 29, but now I'm going to refuse it, after reading this article.

  47. thexfile

    Wait a year.

    Whenever Microsoft releases a new operating system you should wait a year then look at it.

    1. Fluffy Cactus

      Re: Wait a year.

      No, the proper waiting period is 3 to 5 years now.

  48. Dana W

    I'm glad this does not effect me one iota.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I'm glad this does not effect me one iota.

      Except in the Heisenbergian sense.

  49. regadpellagru

    come again ?

    What added-value for me to upgrade from a MAC-contained W7 VM, to W10 ?

    I read the press but still haven't figured it out ...

  50. DCLXV

    Don't worry

    The UI will look like it belongs once the release date rolls around and it gets filled in with all the adware the users will be expected to choke on for the privilege of using this "free" OS. methinks paying for the Server edition will be the last refuge for the more technically-inclined users that for whatever reason want to stay on this sinking ship.

  51. Oldchas

    Oh no.

    It looks as though I'm going to be forced to buy an iMAC. Owwww, Owwww, ahhhhhhhhg.

  52. Kev99 Silver badge

    Win 10 10130 not that bad

    I've been using build 10130 since it was released and it's a damned sight better than 10072. MS still has serious problems getting the updates/upgrade to download & install properly (as of July 6). My biggest complaints are 1) all the clutter and garbage on the desktop, 2) scroll bars disappear unless you repeatedly hover over them, and 3) the Start menu is a picture of confusion and where's Waldo? Once you get past that, I've had no problems. I'm not worried (yet) that the built in mail client doesn't work nor that the Windows Store won't download anything. But like every MS OP since Windows 1 there is still way too much crapware built into the OS with no way to determine if any of it is needed.

  53. Breen Whitman

    "like volunteering to be an unpaid drug trial guinea pig – it would be painful and could potentially"

    "is a bit like getting a whiff of a really outstanding restaurant and being told that, for now, you have to settle for a motorway service station pasty"


    Reading the escorts column and seeing "Blond, petite, very attractive, size 6, Double D", but upon turning up is "Size 18, no boobs, and smells bad, but you have to because its 6am and no more are on shift.

    And just like using Windows 10, you end up getting weeping sores on your ol' fella.

  54. CGarison

    Tech Preview User since October

    Microsoft posted on the corner of my desktop a link with the question "Would you recommend Windows 10 to a friend?" My answer was "not likely" in bubbles and then I explained that the interface was far to buggy and not ready for a professional work environment. I also explained that in the case of my mother, she could live with those bugs and work just fine as long as she has a start menu that looks like a start menu.

    So that sums it up. If you have real business to do, Windows 10 is not for you. If you are putzing around on a home PC or a really experience business user than can quickly work around the bugs and issues (like we did with Windows 95 when it was first released) then Windows 10 is for you.

  55. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Marketing and politics triumph over engineering and common sense... again

    Microsoft still doesn't get it: we want a proper desktop OS for work and play. We don't care for Windows tablets or phones, so shoehorning touch UI elements into a desktop UI is not productive. Microsoft's 'ecosystem' is irrelevant to us.

    The rushed 'RTM' date was probably also politically driven - maybe a deal was made with OEMs, To me, July 29 marks the start of crowdsourced beta testing for RC builds of Windows 10.


    What to do on a freshly installed copy of Windows 10:

    1) Unpin all tiles and install Classic Shell.

    2) Disable Quick Access in File Explorer.

    3) Disable automatic Windows Updates (ignore Home Edition and get Professional).

    4) Disable WiFi Sense.

    5) Windows PowerShell: Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers | Remove-AppxPackage

    6) Launch Microsoft Edge, go download Chrome or Firefox.

    7) Put up a wallpaper that's classier and more sensible than the default one.

    8) Install less ugly icons:

    I like Windows 10 (e.g. DirectX 12) but I couldn't care less about Microsoft's web/cloud services, ecosystem and associated mobile ambitions. Cortana and Minecraft stuff don't excite me.

    P.S: Local account for the PC. Not a Microsoft account.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Marketing and politics triumph over engineering and common sense... again

      ^^ Agreed. Good tips as well.

      But it sort of defeats the purpose, now doesn't it?

      Too much work that should never have to happen in the first place. But I see a lot of that about these days. Somewhere in the past elegance and efficiency seemed to have been outlawed.

    2. cheshS80

      Re: Marketing and politics triumph over engineering and common sense... again

      I'm waiting for the release of the following New Store Apps

      1. Windows 7 Theme Pack (includes Classic XP shell) - $10

      2. Tile remover Pack - $10

      3. Windows Media Pack (including TV Tuner & DVD add-on) - $15

      4. In App Advert Blocker Pack - $25

      5. Aero Theme Pack - $10

      6. Font Fixer (reduce TIFKAM Fonts to 12pt) - $10

      7. Classic Calculator - $5

      8. App remover - $20

      9. Cloud cleaner - $10

      10. Classic Icon Pack - $5

      I'm sure there are many more that M$ could create (raise cash from) lets face it it's their code gathering dust somewhere.

      Yes I've used this Tech Preview since release day and No - M$ are not listening to insiders they are only taking the path they want - they have ignored the major gripes that don't fit with their way. The builds have been stable for me as long as you use it as is and don't want to :- Use Chrome , Load Nvidia drivers , Run older software, all this has been done on a brand new box, freshly built from new parts - ASUS H81M - Haswell G3240 - 4Gb Ram. (Dual booting with 8.1)

      Even MS Flight Simulator X - didn't run properly with out a workaround, which has to be performed every time its started (switch from full screen to windowed mode and back again (Cntrl-Enter)).

      Windows 10 began with some potential , but comparing it directly with Windows 8.1u1 , it is no faster at running software , or with benchmarks, it is certainly no better looking. Compared to Windows 8.1u1 (of which I am no great fan) it is clunkier and at best half developed - designed by committee and marketed by money men with no grasp on the real user world.

      I await the roll out and the chaos that will follow. Hopefully people will realize that they will only have 30 days to revert back to their previous OS after the upgrade occurs, else it's Cinderella time for your previous OS Key

      1. Michael Sanders

        Re: Marketing and politics triumph over engineering and common sense... again

        You're right. They don't listen to the testers suggestions. Aero theme pack..exactly what I suggested.

  56. Alexander Rogge

    How about just making an operating system that executes applications and stays out of the way? This is how Windows used to be, and now I'm seeing Windows and MacOS both falling into this trap of catering to entertainment-happy consumers instead of keeping things simple. If you want to add stuff for entertainment, you can add it yourself, the way we used to do with third-party applications. One problem I've had recently is related to animated windows that attempt to redraw themselves many times when being minimized and maximized. This adds nothing to productivity, and when the system resources aren't available to handle the unnecessary graphics cost, the entire windowing system freezes. Programmers are increasingly assuming that everyone is willing to commit huge amounts of system resources on useless "features" because they have nothing else to do with the hardware that they bought, and the result is an increasing amount of conflicts, freezes, and unnecessary consumption of system resources.

  57. Windows8

    Been using 10 since day one. BUGS ASIDE IN EARLY builds I'm as productive as my days on Win 7, 8 or 8.1.

  58. ecofeco Silver badge

    The word is "clutter"

    The word everyone is looking for and should be thinking about is "clutter."

    You know, like the people who fill up their entire screen with icons? Can't get enough buttons on the car dashboards or icons on their phones? Yeah, they'll love this.

    Bling is where it's at! Look at my bling, bitches!


    1. Fluffy Cactus

      Re: The word is "clutter"

      This has nothing to do with bling.

      Sorry, I like to see the Icons for all my programs in plain sight, and I like to use "ONE simple click of the mouse" to start or stop a program. Clicking through 7 levels of menus wastes time.

      Likewise, I like to arrange my icons in groups, and Win 8 or Win10 does not let me do that.

      Furthermore, I like to be able to have several Windows open, and I wish to be able to move, size, resize, remake, remodel, minimize, maximize and exit AS I SEE FIT, not as some ignoramus at MS thinks it ought to be. Win 8 and Win 8.1 didn't let me.

      I like to see what's open and running, minimized. Can't do that in Win 8 or Win 10.

      I like to use tabbed browsing. Does Edge even offer that?

      Can I even have more than 2 or 4 Windows open in Win 10? Probably not, and that's not enough.

      How many times has Microsoft replaced a function that required ONE CLICK before, with SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES 3, 4, 5 CLICKS + may be type a search dealy-bob. That is

      not and never will be progress. It's moving backwards, backwards, backwards. Microsoft is like

      a car company that moves the steering wheel in the backseat (for a FRESHER CLEANER LOOK), and

      while they are at it, they move the petrol (gas tank) indicator back to where the fuel cap is, because that's the way it was done in 1910. That's Microsoft reasoning and engineering in a nut shell.

      1. Timmy B

        Re: The word is "clutter"

        1. I use two clicks to start all the things I need.

        2. I use Windows 8.1 and all my icons are in groups.

        3. I currently have 16 windows open in 8.1 - all over the place in various states of size and position.

        4. I can see all that is running. Again in 8.1.

        5. A quick look at any screenshot of Edge will let you see some tabs pretty much. I wonder if you don't actually care to look.

        I'm bored at this point and clearly you have no clue.....

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward


      "The word everyone is looking for and should be thinking about is "clutter.""

      Actually it's "accessibility".

  59. jimbo60

    Please, don't repeat Vista release!

    I really like where Windows 10 is going, and I really want a desktop capable system with all the under the hood improvements that went into 8.x. But July 29? My test system isn't reliable enough to be three weeks from release (yes, I'm on the fast ring so I have the current bits). The last time MSFT made the calendar king over quality and developer feedback was the initial Vista release. And I really don't want to see that repeated!

  60. Winkypop Silver badge

    Wow, Win10 eh?

    Win7 is looking really good.

  61. Fluffy Cactus

    Here is my good advice to Microsoft - and gosh - it could be worth billions of lollards, I mean dollars to them:

    When you first start up Windows 10, you give the user an actual choice, like so

    1) Make it look and work like Win 7

    2) Make it look and work like Win XP

    3) Make it look like Win10, but only if that works and is compatible.

    It should be fairly easy to build a user interface like that, because it's all more or less cosmetic, and

    the great advantage for all the users who want to stick with Win 7 or XP, would be that they would not have to learn anything new.

    For young people, this may sound lame and stupid, but the demographics show otherwise: There are now more aging babyboomers that buy a "cheap computer" (i.e. Windows) than there are young people that want something oh so cool, and oh so new. 30 years ago, and even 15 years ago, I had the interest, the time, the gumption to play around with a new computer, a new OS. Now, I don't have the time or the inclination to monkey around, and I also lost the kind of patience required to say to myself "Oh it's a new technology, and soon they are gonna iron out the bugs."

    No, Microsoft, we have given you 30 years to learn how to do it right, to get it right from the start, and no, we don't wanna be your guinea pigs.

    1. ITS Retired
      Thumb Up

      That's in in a nut shell

      Their is no reason, good or bad, why the GUI needs to be part of the operating system.

      MS can do their security updates, upgrades on the OS and not effect the end user.

      But by leaving the hooks alone, from one upgrade to the next, they could even graft a Linux GUI if someone wanted to and the GUI could stay the same. Productivity would not suffer by having to learn MS new way of doing things every time.

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: That's in in a nut shell

        "Their is no reason, good or bad, why the GUI needs to be part of the operating system."

        The problem is that MS need to create some element of newness and consumer sparkle to the OS every few years (hence why W10 will not be the last version of Windows) to avoid becoming just another IT company.

        However, what you suggest for the separation of OS from GUI, is exactly what business would like as it creates stability, and enables innovation on this platform, like we saw with XP and 2003...

      2. Paul Shirley

        Re: That's in in a nut shell

        Remember though, windows started as just a gui loaded in DOS. Then it acquired DOS extender features and device drivers but still over DOS. It didn't subsume the OS layer till 95. A better complaint is why the hell an OS needs to be part of a GUI ;)

        Or why an internet browser should be hooked so intimately into an OS,

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      When you first start up Windows 10, you give the user an actual choice

      Great idea: here's how I'd word the menu:

      Hi person, we don't know why, but you've elected to spend your hard-earned money with Microsoft and run Windows. For your entertainment, Windows can start in three modes:

      1. Classic - what you've known and tolerated for years - bet you're wondering why you spent the cash, eh??

      2. Baffling - where we pretend you're running this on a tablet, even though we know you're running this on a 3 year old PC! Nothing's where it used to be... LOL.

      3. Irritating - much like baffling, except more half-baked, you've paid to be a beta tester, and most of your applications and hardware now won't work!

      Please choose [3, 7, B, Any Key] - ?_

      (Do not choose B)

      Uploading your contacts to Microsoft: 37% done.

  62. Fluffy Cactus

    And may be by the year 2020 they (the Microsoft management team) will use common sense again.

    In the meantime, I will ask Intuit to make Quickbooks compatible with Open Office, instead of just

    with Excel, and/or make Quickbooks / Turbotax compatible with Linux, and then I will prepare for that scary jump to Linux. Funny that the Linux people cannot get it into their head to hire a few more people, start charging a reasonable (nice) price for their OS plus support, and they would have a nice business going.


      Contradictory nonsense.

      > Funny that the Linux people cannot get it into their head

      Your own comments have SQUAT to do with what "Linux people do". It's all about 3rd party support from parties like Microsoft or Intuit.

      ...also, I used the web version of Quickbooks on Linux 10 years ago.

  63. Retron

    Works fine...

    ...for doing actual work, rather than faffing around with Metro apps.

    In fact, it's less of a mess than Windows 8.1 is and I'll be switching my work PC to it as soon as the volume licensed version becomes available. I've been running the previews on my home PC and laptop since October and going back to Windows 8.1 at work is like a kick in the teeth each morning.

    Games work just fine btw.

    Note that this relates to traditional desktop/laptop use. I don't know whether it'd be any good on tablets but frankly I don't care - can't stand the things!

    1. jason 7

      Re: Works fine...

      Yeah I don't know why the reviews all hang on the Metro apps/Start side of things when

      A. No one cares or uses them.

      B. See A.

      Then gloss over the fact that the usual desktop side is fine and all the software thats used there is still all the same old software we've always used.

      Generates clicks I guess. You can't afford to have a neutral/pretty good review as it just doesn't generate traffic. So you have to title it "OMFG THE APOCALYPSE THAT IS WINDOWS 10!" and then spend 80% of the review bitching about a couple of 'apps' that no one uses anyway.

  64. Anonymous Coward

    Fluffy Cactus has nailed it - have an upvote - the UI is absolutely vital, and should have a consistent paradigm throughout. Obvious access to settings is vital - for people like myself who need a non-standard colouration and contrast setting (and hey! Please give us who need LOW contrast some love, UI developers of all OS's! Oh, and you web/browser developers too, come to think of it!) tucking the controls away somewhere strange is really unhelpful, and for me can easily make the difference between whether I'm willing to use/buy the thing or not.

    I'd add that NO UI I've yet encountered has managed what I'd call a perfect job re the settings, not even my beloved Xfce, the problem being in some cases that it seems you almost have to have some idea of the logic behind the way the software works to understand why things have been grouped together the way they are (applies to both Xfce and the various Windows versions I've used), whereas as a user, I just want to change that horrid glaring white slab of screen to a more soothing green, thank you, and I don't really care about the software driving it all, I just don't want my retinas burnt out, ta very.

    From what Mr Orlowski's said, that there Windows 10 simply isn't fit for purpose as is, and Microsoft would be well advised to delay release until it IS fit for purpose. Tell the marketing bods to bugger off, never mind the embarassment, tell the programming bods to make it work properly, THEN release to plaudits all round that Microsft - finally- did good for once. Ach, - and then I woke up.

  65. AliBear

    W10 is just less efficient to use as a tool

    (note, this is all from the point of view of a K+M desktop user only)

    I have to agree with just about everything Andrew points out. I have been collecting a very similar list over the preview period.

    OK. Progress is of course a very good thing, with the promise of better integration with services, continuum, faster loading, new browser and so on. All great.

    My problem is with the ‘breakthrough’ simplified, flat, whited (call it what you will) interface: W7 has subtly different designs for different functional zones, controls and icons, all of which makes for a more EFFICIENT working environment for people who wish to use a PC as a workplace tool, rather than a style statement.

    Personally I think the interface as current developed is less easy to use, ergo less productive environment. This MATTERS for enterprise. Some examples that I notice all of the time…

    It now takes LONGER to identify where the Menu / Ribbon / Status / Media zones are.

    It now takes LONGER for us to select and use ‘simple’ scroll bars

    It now takes LONGER for us to identify where sidebar and list functional areas start and finish

    It’s now MORE DIFFICULT to read grey text on grey backgrounds (and no, I do not need the Hi-Viz themes) or blue on blue (See Skype). Why would you do that? Oh, sorry, it’s ‘style’

    Selection and resizing handles of windows is inconsistent – the active zone on the sides and bottom are actually OUTSIDE the window, where on the top, the active zone is just inside the window. This appears to be as a result of reducing the border from ‘significant’ to ‘insignificant’.

    Identification of the active window is now more INEFFICIENT; the shadow is less obvious, there is no title bar colour change, and the lack of the subtleties of W7 Aero shading means that valuable brain time is used in working out where you are focussed on the desktop.

    Many ‘graphics’ are only revealed as functional controls when hovered over – this is both INEFFICIENT, TIME CONSUMING and OBSTRUCTIVE – not to mention that many of them are again grey-on-grey. Doh.

    The Start menu has generated a lot of discussion too – I don’t find it too bad now in 10162, and the right-click option is absolutely invaluable. However, I do think the alpha separators in the ‘All’ list are a total waste of space. They make the scrolling process more INEFFICIENT. (And when I go back to W7, it just seems, well, more useful and obvious.)

    So, if we focus on making the OS easier and more efficient to use, I think W10 is heading for a major fail (and all of the MS apps as well). Which is sad, because the technical improvements seem to be good. I was/am a great fan of the effectiveness of the subtle EFFICIENCY factors of the W7/Aero UX; colour (whatever happened to colour?), gradients, shading are all used by the eye and brain in identification and familiarity; it may only be milliseconds each time, but it all adds up. It seems that (nearly?) all of those EFFICIENCY and EASE OF USE factors have just been cast aside in the apparent quest for style ‘simplicity’ (ie ‘flatness’). It’s not as though PCs are so desperately low on processing power that the resources required to render the Aero UX was a limiting factor. I can just about buy that argument for phones (but even then most of the target devices are as powerful as the first Cray 1), but it just doesn't make sense on the desktop to ditch these useful UX mechanisms. At the very least make it a theme.

    I could go on - about the inconsistency of new settings and configuration menus and dialogs, the lack of configuration, removal of options in IE11, bugs brought forward from W7/W8.x etc, but I'm *hoping* they are just V 0.9 issues.

    Not least, there is still no plug-in support in Edge, the browser selection seems to be broken requiring me to answer a question every time I click on a link in an e-mail, and IE11 restarts when I shut it down.

    So, to summarise: 10162 still has many clunky bugs and overall W10 IS a backwards step in FUNCTIONAL EFFICIENCY (IMHO). A triumph (?) of style over function?

  66. Ben Smith

    Don't install it !

    After your article earlier this week on Windows 10, like a muppet I thought I'd give it a go. And I broke the cardinal rule - do NOT do this on the PC you rely upon for work etc.Anyway, I downloaded the ISO from the link and started the upgrade...

    Now, initially the upgrade from Windows 7 worked rather nicely. Took about an hour, everything migrated over without any issues. So far, so good.

    The problem came when I was asked to link my Microsoft account to my Windows account. This, unthinkingly, I did, and then went to bed. Yesterday, when I booted in, I noticed the login was now for my Microsoft account, so different name, a photo of me, different (i.e. Microsoft account) password.

    Logged in, and got the message that the Start menu and Cortana weren't working. Only option - restart. Stuck in a loop until I found (thank god for my laptop which was still on Windows 7) a YouTube video showing me how to create an admin account. Which I did, then created a new user account (you can't use the admin account for much apart from creating another account), copied files over from old knackered account to new account, however all my settings / icons etc had disappeared.

    Downloaded a new build - another hour gone. Tried logging in with old account, got a "This is taking longer than usual, please wait" message on login. Waited half an hour, re-started, finally logged in to the same Start Menu / Cortana message, only this time it said it would fix it if I logged back in and re-started. It lied. Had to go into the "new" account I set up, now the option to revert back to Windows 7 had vanished. Tried about 3 fixes posted on line involving command line and Powershell shenanigans - which didn't work..

    Rolled back the update hoping the "go back to Windows 7" option would come back - it didn't.

    I back my machine up every Sunday, so I thought - right, let's create a Windows 7 recovery disc on my laptop, and use my System Recovery backup to get Windows 7 back.

    Windows 7 system recovery wanted to format BOTH my hard discs. I only wanted my SSD - which holds the OS and nothing else - to be formatted. No, said system recovery, it's both discs or nothing. Screw that.

    Guess who spent yesterday re-building his machine from scratch. 4 hours of Windows Update, even on a 150Meg internet connection.

    YES, I should have followed the "don't install this on your main PC" advice, but stupidly I thought with 3 weeks left to go, the build would be stable by now. Looking on the forums, there are lots of people who say that everything works fine until you link your MS account, at which point it fails.

    Like everyone else, will be waiting for a stable build which may be out I suppose before the end of the year.

    MS are in for a world of pain if most people do migrate at the end of this month. A world of pain.

    Learn by my mistake - don't do it !

    1. auburnman

      Re: Don't install it !

      I think most of us have a painful "what harm could it do?" Story that snowballs into a stupidly complex rebuild somewhere in a mental folder marked "OH GOD WHY I DO THIS?"

    2. Belardi

      Re: Don't install it !

      Seems that Win10 is going to be a cluster-f-mess really soon. :)

      When Win7 preview came out, I put it on a test system - liked it. Then I even put it as my MAIN OS on my main desktop... it was so solid, that I didn't bother with the retail version of Windows 7 until my preview versions expired. That *IS* how solid Windows 7 was / is.

      My interests in Win10 was there... it is FREE... but it seems like a lot more headaches are in store... and likely MS is data-mining us like never before.

      Need to continue my migration to Linux...

  67. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Seems faster

  68. F0ul

    I can't wait!

    I have liked and hated most Microsoft products over the years, but this one, I am actually looking forward to.

    But, what is wrong with all the dicks in IT who insist that they can only do a task the one way they learnt to do it, and get a heart attack everytime the OS changes?

    1. Yugguy

      Re: I can't wait!

      Because 9 times out of 10 the new way is more complicated and takes longer.

    2. Paul Shirley

      Re: I can't wait!

      An OS exists to support it's users NOT CONTROL THEM.

  69. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I thought it would be Mostly Harmless

    I have been trying this out on an ancient Dell laptop. It took ages to install and update, but once done everything worked except I had to search for an old Vista touchpad driver, which is now running surprisingly well. The laptop had no standard support for anything other than XP.

    As Usual I ran around the PC trying to configure for some semblance of privacy, but had the same problem of settings all over the place. It is as if Microsoft are doing this deliberately to get people away from the standalone PC mentality over to a cloud/app centred setup where they have no control. Maybe all the Android/IOS fanbois are OK with this, but I want a PC which I can control, not a tablet rental from Google or Apple, although I thought it may be nice to have the option of some web apps occasionally.

    Comodo and Avast install with no problems as do most of the open software that I tried, but my main impression is that they want me to sign away all the independence and privacy I have managed to retain, with difficulty, with Microsoft up to now.

    Too much seems to rely on being permanently logged in witha Microsoft account and disconnecting makes everything grind to a halt. This may be only necessary for the Insider programme, but if it is an ongoing requirement this will be the killer for me - Stay with Win7 or go to Linux. I would not be surprised if others see it this way.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I thought it would be Mostly Harmless

      Testing the alternate hypothesis, that there is no conspiracy, the online/cloud account idea is that your devices (mobile/tablet/desktop) are in sync without much effort (a boon for the less technically gifted, or who don't bother reading manuals etc) and not that there is someone at MS pulling a frown of distaste at your choice of website visits.

      Though (Y)MMV, as it seems to for you.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I thought it would be Mostly Harmless

        For the alternate hypothesis to be true would, in the post-Snowden world, as disingenuous as politicians and security services railing against encryption. The front being 'don't worry your pretty-little heads, you can trust us'.

  70. Dreams

    Fee based operating system

    Regardless of what Microsoft says, Windows 10 will end up being an annual fee based operating system.

  71. Amorous Cowherder

    I used it for about a week with a Adobe Photoshop CC to edit and maintain my images, using it for about 3-4 hours a day. Out of all the stuff I used ( Thunderbird, Chrome, Firefox, Photoshop, Lightroom, some other utils ) the only thing that didn't work was Kaspersky AV. I hate the icons on Windows 10 but other than that it seemed to work fine for what I needed to do with it.

  72. Yugguy

    Active Tiles?




  73. theOtherJT Silver badge

    This start menu... thing...

    The more I think about it, the more I think this is actually a mistake that happened a long time ago and we're just perpetuating it.

    I mean, what is the start menu, really? It's an application launcher. A way to start programs. I used to do that by navigating to the place in the filesystem where the program was and typing "programname.exe"

    That was a bit tiresome, so I started putting .bat files in one "run" directory that had full paths in them to launch all my programs from there.

    Then we got a gui, and shortcuts and a start menu that was basically just that directory full of bat files. That was fine. It solved a problem I had - how to get to programs quickly.

    Then, somewhere, something went terribly wrong and the "Start menu" acquired a life of it's own. It suddenly started trying to do things OTHER than start programs. It would appear to still be doing it.

    Let's face it, Microsoft, I start a program in your desktop metaphor by clicking on it. All I want from a start menu is a convenient list of things to click on. Can I please, PLEASE just have that back?

  74. Lallabalalla

    Great review

    If your aim was to convince me that win10 is a complete clusterf*ck and I should stick with 7 for absolutely as long as possible, then you've succeeded, and in spades.

  75. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Flat! Windows! Soon no Explorer anymore!

    Has anyone tried to move the start menu to the upper-right corner?

    What happens with the search bar then?

    I don't understand this fashion of "flat design" and "simplification".

    Has everyone on Earth suddenly turned into a retard?

    It looks like people these days can't program or design anymore.

    In Windows XP one could customize many aspects of the interface.

    In Windows 8.1, you can't change the title bar text color from black so you can't change the border color to something dark.

    Vista had many themes included and a colaboration feature.

    They disappeared from since then.

    Included media features and games come and go.

    It is like Microsoft is subcontracting

    each version of the OS from different companies.

    It's something I noticed in Android Samsung phones.

    Each model and software version seems to be developed by someone else.

    About the anti "skeuomorphism" movement or what is called:

    Everywhere we look around us, we see the world in 3d.

    The O.S. is called Windows.

    When I look outside trough a window, I don't see flat design.

    I wonder when holographic displays become common, how flat design would work.

    Everything now looks like sketches made by 3 years old kids.

    What is with this wasted space around menu items?

    The mouse was invented on purpose.

    The keyboard also. Has anyone tested the new interfaces with keyboard only?

    About tiles: we already had the desktop for grouping shortcuts in folders as many levels deep as we pleased. Why would we need a duplicate 2 level one?

    I've noticed on android on samsung phones the trend to limit the screen like it is paper.

    They limit the number of items on screen to a maximum as if scrolling was not invented.

    If I can't scroll, I will limit myself, but don't force me.

    The screen is not paper. If it was, it could never display movies or animations.

    Microsoft sent me a survey form because I've registered

    for insider program. All they are interested in is what kind of entertainment I prefer when using my computer. As if a computer is only made for entertainment, or document editing.

    Microsoft: a computer is a general purpose device. It can do any data processing.

    Stop monkeying and make an O.S.

    I don't need cortana or permanent connection to Internet!

    I don't want to not be able to use my computer if you go belly up.

    I don't want this cloud thing 24h 7 day/week every week of the year.

    I don't want you to know where I am, when I turn my computer on and off, etc.

    Qnx made a demo floppy some years ago with a full O.S. with a GUI on a P.C.

    It can be done and you know it. Phone these days are more powerfull than pc in 2000.

    You can connect one with keyboard, mouse and monitor.

    There is only a matter of time until they will replace you.

    You are becoming obsolete in the entertainment.

    Stop monkeying and make an O.S.

    I do not want everything sorted alphabetically.

    I can see the first letter of every word.

    If you think flat is the answer, why do you have folders on disks.

    Why do you have windows explorer?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Flat! Windows! Soon no Explorer anymore!

      All the line breaks

      Made my eyes ache!

      I tried to read all of it

      But my head nearly split.

      So I still don't know

      What point you were making

      But I'll read it again

      When my brain stops quaking.

  76. David Roberts

    Cannon fodder to the fore!

    Most of the thinking users posting here are well aware of the risks of early adoption.

    The non technical user is far more likely to click and reserve the free upgrade, especially so soon after all the angst over the end of XP support.

    Microsoft appear to be using naive users as cannon fodder. Of course, unless the transition is seamless this is not going to end well.

    I note that release is going to be "phased". Hopefully this will mean a very few users will be screwed over initially.


    I am very happy with W8.1. However this is because i bought cheap W8 licence keys up front then waited a while.

    Classic Shell gave a W7 feel, so most problems solved.

    W8 -> W8.1 upgrade was a real pain but once past that it has all been plain sailing.

    I upgraded two venerable Vista 32 PC to W8.1 64 and they have a new lease of life.

    So very pleased and I still fail to understand all the rabid hate spewed out by the few.

    I know plenty of naive users who have taken to W8.1 like a duck to water.

  77. MikeHuk

    Sorry but I think this review is RUBBISH

    As a Windows 7 user who has been using the Windows 10 preview in it's various builds since January, I have found it to be a really huge improvement over Windows 7, sure there are some minor bugs but this is STILL A BETA, I am writing this using Firefox on Windows 10. Windows 10 is way faster than win 7, I am using it on a Lenovo E520 Laptop which I hardly ever used because it was so damn slow under Win 7, but it flies under Win 10! It is stable, I have had NIL crashes it runs all my win32 apps better than under Win7. I have tried a lot of the Apps and some of them are fun but my main concern is getting work done and for that I use Win32 programs - Firefox, Thunderbird, Office 2007, VLC, Picassa. Libre Office. Irfanview, Tapinradio etc. All run well. It is suc a drag having to go back to my Desktop PC running Win 7. Roll on the 29th when I can update to the release version of Win 10

    1. jason 7

      Re: Sorry but I think this review is RUBBISH

      Same here. Has worked fine with next to no issues and as you say's BETA.

      But as I said earlier if you say its okay you don't generate 4+ pages of forum posts and all the clicks that come with it.

      Shame that internet journalism has become all about the clicks.

      1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

        Re: Re: Sorry but I think this review is RUBBISH

        It's possible for people to have different opinions, yes.


    2. mi pen

      Re: Sorry but I think this review is RUBBISH

      Sorry, but some eye candy and no privacy, doesn't make it good. Its buggy crashy junk compared to windows 7. Robs bandwidth and uses up unnecessary cpu time with apps in the background.

      If I need notifications a popup window is enough.

      And I also have a Tablet and cheap smartphone anyway, for assorted non PC, quick search web gunk apps. It does a b etter job and allows my PC to stay a PC, not was processing power on unnecessary junk.

  78. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    Microsoft were told - to survive they had to kill metro stone dead.

    Instead they have let the developers of Microsoft Bob lose on Windows 8, and created an even bigger turd.

    I hope they release Hololens with some clarity, and a low price, because they have killed their golden goose with a crap design foie gras.

    1. Bob Vistakin

      Re: Nope

      "Microsoft Bob"


      1. GrumpyOldMan

        Re: Nope

        Whatever happened to Clippit?

  79. bombastic bob Silver badge

    And there's built-in ADWARE and SPYWARE

    Don't forget the Joe Belfiore keynote speech (between 2 and 3 minutes into it) back at the Build conference early this year, where he ANNOUNCED that the new 'Start Thing' (as the article puts it) will have a SPECIAL place in it where Microsoft will put 'recommendations' for 'Store Apps(sic)' [aka ADWARE], and in OTHER parts of the operating system as well [example, install a 3rd party application, double-click a file, and you get a notification of "There are apps(sic) in the store that can open that kind of file." Microsoft WILL collect data on you on how you use your computer (announced by Joe Belfiore), send that data to "the Store", and then TARGET YOU with ADVERTISEMENTS via THE OPERATING SYSTEM.

    Didn't Lenovo have some problems recently regarding Superfish being BUNDLED on their computers? Is THIS the kind of "Spy on YOU" operating system that people WANT? Will CORPORATIONS even CONSIDER adopting an operating system that DOES THIS?

    THESE are SERIOUS security and privacy issues, and you have to GIVE MICROSOFT PERMISSION to track and ad-spam you when you sign up for the 'Microsoft Account' that they STRONG-ARM you into getting when you install Windows 10 (nevermind that the 'e-mail address login' potentially breaks the SMB method of logging in, share access, and so forth) Oh, sure, you don't HAVE to have a 'Microsoft Account', and set up a local user account (like earlier windows versions) and then things like Cortana break.

    This is a BAD direction and a preclusion to FAIL for Microsoft and their BAD OS design.

    And WHY DID THEY have to CHANGE what 7 and XP did right? It makes NO sense at all!

    1. jbuk1

      Re: And there's built-in ADWARE and SPYWARE

      You'll be able to turn it off with group policy in the enterprise space. (obviously).

  80. Rick Giles


    I'll stick with Linux.

    The only time I have ever bought Windows is when I bought my daughter a laptop for graduation and the $10 fee HP charges to get the recovery disks for one of there laptops. Work has always provided and I buy used hardware to put Linux on.

  81. Fat Northerner

    Can anyone tell me...

    Can you at install time, make it look and feel, and act exactly the same as windows 7?

    I don't want stupid boxes.

    I explicitly want cloud connectivity disabled at install.

    I don't want to give my email address to use it.

    I'm not interested in apps.


    Other people will know better than me. Should I get it? (No MS shills please.)

    1. jason 7

      Re: Can anyone tell me...


      So you find adapting to change slightly difficult and yet maybe, you work in IT?

      How does that work?

      1. GrumpyOldMan

        Re: Can anyone tell me...

        Nothing to do with adapting and everything to do with workflow and efficiency. I have ways I do things, I want to work that way. It works for me, has been developed over many years and I don't want MS imposing a new one on me every time. Not just me - every time Windows gets a new release our 500+ users all gripe because things are never where you expect them, always yet one more mouse click, things get re-named, does my head in. I still look for Add-Remove Programs instead of Progs and Features - which moves depending on your screen resolution or RDP session size. ARP was always at the and top in the same place.

        1. jason 7

          Re: Can anyone tell me...

          So stuff always has to stay the same version after version after version.

          You still wearing your school uniform after all these years?

  82. ILoveGadgets

    If only

    If only there was an operating system that could run on every device from microcontrollers to supercomputers; phones, tablets, watches, desktops, laptops, servers and anything else you can imagine having a computer in it.

    An operating system where there was a choice of GUI or even no GUI, which could be accessed via an attached display or over any kind of communications link.

    An operating system where a single consistent ecosystem of basic programs means that someone familiar with one device can easily control all other kinds of device that run it.

    An operating system which can update all components in place without a reboot.

    If only...

    1. ITS Retired

      Re: If only

      Just like the lack of biodiversity in nature, a single OS for everything is vulnerable to one glitch, or one virus, or one flaw, bringing everything down.

      There is no reason for not having OS designed for efficiency for each device and having the look and feel tuned for that device also. What works best for a desk top, makes for frustration on a smart phone or fondle slab. OS optimized for touch screens on a phone or slab are hardly workable on a desk top on a desk in a cube farm.

      1. swooosh

        Re: If only

        @ ITS Retired

        I see that as a lack of vision on your part. One day we may re-think the function and design of all hardware and the only "tuning" would consist of you accessing the UI of any computer-powered device the way you like it best. That way two people working on the same device may be looking at or feeling a different UI, yet utilize its functions in exactly the same way. A home "desktop" computer may then be equipped with the same hardware your smart fridge is.

    2. swooosh

      Re: If only

      If only people could tell the difference between objective and subjective, if only they could put asside their differences, if only they stopped looking for ways to exploit each other, if only they could kick addictions of all sorts, then maybe, JUST maybe, that would be a good time for the IT industry to develop the kind of OS you're dreaming of. But in the current global social climate, such a OS would simply be a sign of absolute and despotic rule of a bunch of psychopaths over the World.

  83. Anonymous Coward

    It's getting a little better with every release (it seems).

    So after reading those encouraging words in the article I figured why not give this a try. So I downloaded the ISO (this time I opted for one in my local language), started VirtualBox again and applied the changes.

    I have to say there's definitely something positive to notice here: the OS doesn't crash on my with a weird error message. Instead it asks if I want to boot with the CD, I press a key, the (IMO lame) new Windows logo shows and I can see the CD image getting accessed. After 30 - 40 seconds my HD gets accessed once and then the whole OS just stalls. I waited 5 minutes but the Windows logo remains indefinitely.

    Now, I have to admit that my hardware isn't state of the art. However, with this same setup I can easily run Windows 8 within VirtualBox without any effort (apart from mental efforts in order not to lose my sanity). Windows 10 on the other hand does absolutely nothing.

    Definitely not the kind of experience which convinces me that this might be a liable candidate to replace my Windows 7 Professional somewhere in the far future :)

  84. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    People just want a simple, friendly operating system. All they have to do is add a few features to android like opening two programs (or apps) side by side. That is all. For business users they could add a networking app that would allow that user group to set up the hard core networking they so love. Microsoft are bamboozled these days.

  85. Argus Tuft

    but will it have Clippy?

    i still the miss the little guy... kind of like the puppy that's always under your feet. Annoying but cute.

  86. Hellcat

    Is Windows 10 ready for the enterprise? No.... but

    neither is Windows 7, until you apply a suitable created GPO.

    There are so many parts to Windows that you do not want in anything bigger than a corner shop, that having a GPO or at very minimum a local policy in place is a must. I've not tried it on WinX yet, but imagine it'll be the same. Cortana on the desktop? Disable. Default search from Start menu? Local Computer. One does not simply deploy Windows from the DVD into the org.

  87. ballist1x

    MS should take note

    I just want a slimmed down, low CPU utilisation simple to use Windows Desktop PC. Win 98SE interface is fine. Win 7 with Classic Shell or whatever is okay. Win 8 is terrible.

    If I want a tablet, I will expect a tablet OS. If I am using my non touch desktop PC, I expect a UI that suffices. I am not blind, I do not need Tiles that take up loads of screen space. A start button and my applications installed on there or desktop shortcuts is absolutely fine. This part of the wheel did not need reinventing.

    Do MS know why people make their own custom android roms? Slimmed down, removed bloatware, maximise system performance. They should take note of the trend, XDA and Modaco forums exist for a reason.

    1. graeme leggett Silver badge

      Re: MS should take note

      "Do MS know why people make their own custom android roms"

      I suspect they are aware that some people like a minimalist approach, and also have handle on how few those people are compared with the installed userbase and so discount as a minority not worth considering.

  88. someslob

    "it's easily customisable and Microsoft could have extended the concept by allowing you to pin folders and document shortcuts to it." - What? like in gnome you mean?

  89. GrumpyOldMan

    I run the W10 preview in a VM..

    Cos I won't run it on hardware! It's fast, I'll give them that. But why can't my Start menu be white? It's not in the colour list. And WHY!!!!! do I need to be told the Apps (ugh!) are listed in alphabetic order by having a dumb-dumb letter above them? Is is cos we is supid, init? They take up space on the menu - so get rid of them. OK? My update to the latest W10 infection failed yesterday - VMware Tools saved me from it by rebooting the vm at an inappropriate time.

    So what do I like? I do quite like the desktop wallpapers....

  90. Michael Sanders

    Thanks for saying it

    No one else on the Web is. Setup Bugs I ran into in VM and bare metal installs I can't find reported on the web. And periodically it will say please wait while shutting down for eternity, till I hit the reset. I'm not a H8r. But I think this is going to be a worse flop than 8. How can this be ready? As far as the UI, I've been saying all along why not copy the xbox dashboard? It's actually useful in every way that those tiles aren't! And who came up with the styling recently? I know women's clothes fashions had this color palette for a while. But those pepto-bismol colors for the original surface tablets..and now this? It's the JJ Abrams reboot of windows.

  91. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Reading the comments

    like a continuation, maybe ever-evolving and refining of what we've been saying since before TIFKAM was KAM, I feel this wave of futility. Like when you let the wave wash over you then stand up for air and get a mouthful of salt water because you're not where you were just now. And sharks live in this sea.

    Okay, getting carried away there (by the metaphor rather than the Med). The point is we who comment here seem to be irrelevant. Like a big, grey thing with...that is, a Great White thing, such as frequent the Med...

    Maybe I'll feel more optimistic tomorrow when I get my meds!*


    This near year-long discussion on Windows 10 still hasn't put a no.on how many angels!

  92. Craigness

    Hosted Web Apps

    I like that "Hosted Web App" idea. It sounds familiar, but I can't quite place it.

    Sent from my Chromebook.

  93. GarfieldLeChat

    Probably best to not use on a surface pro 3

    2 days out of warranty and it killed it dead...

    1. Timmy B

      Re: Probably best to not use on a surface pro 3

      The risk of using beta software. Silly you, really.

  94. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    Windows 10 is reported to be better, but better than what?

    both versions of Windows 8 perhaps..that's it!

    Tile system is crap! Bring back the taskbar lol

    I'll still be sticking with the rock solid Windows 7 Pro 32/64 and LXDE.

    Yes, you've guessed it, I haven't reserved my Windows 10 (and not likely to either)

  95. cheshS80

    Build 10166 is out - and it's not good for me so far

    Just downloaded and installed build 10166 - No new features supposedly , just Bug Fixes - Only thing I have found so far is that normal Win32 Programs take 2 - 3 times longer to load - many crash to a black screen when changing window focus.

    MS Flight Sim X takes ages to load and now crashes when selecting menu items or on shut down.

    Chrome takes 2 - 3 times longer to load. Edge is as poor as ever

    Other than that same old rubbish , Tiles you can't get rid of (Apps that can't be uninstalled) - High CPU Usage and background Network usage when it's sitting idle, guess it's calling the mothership a lot in it's spare time.

    Not impressed with this build so far at all - Oh you can buy MS WiFi minutes from the store if you live in Seattle (I think that's a feature).

  96. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Same old

    Shock horror the Binux loving attacks Windows, no one expected that

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: Same old

      You have no chance to survive, make your time!

      1. Ernie Mercer

        Re: Same old

        All your base are belong to us!

  97. Spaz

    It may be 3 weeks from release however having witnessed first hand how Microsoft releases product this is the norm. Right now it's probably crunch time at the office and all the devs are ironing all the major bugs. The minor bugs will be patched as the end users scream murder. Nothing to see here, move on.

  98. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not really liking the visual design. Looks just a bit too flat and webpage like.

    Rather cheap and dull.

  99. wollo

    Last legs

    Thanks for taking the W10 eval bullet for us. I'm writing this using Lubuntu on an old HP tower with the sides off, bare SATA disks sitting on top. Min res because the video card took a dirt nap last week.

    There is a Win8 laptop over there, leering at me from the missus' desk, but I have developed a Pavlovian loathing.

    I need to use Madcap Flare, Adobe Tech Comms, etc, so one was hoping that common sense would prevail and an enterprise OS might emerge from the ashes. The only hope now is that "free" might evolve into open source and someone will create a secure core OS. Arf.

  100. Chika

    Still, if this keeps on, people may end up switching to Linux, at least when they would otherwise feel the need to upgrade. (Hey, making the upgrade to Windows 10 free suddenly sounds like a great idea!)

    I'm late to this, so sorry if I reiterate anything.

    I've tried W10 and I'm a lot less confused than I was with any of the W8 stuff. Given that I was a fairly early adopter of W7 and still use W7 for a few things, perhaps that isn't too surprising. I tend, however, to spend a lot of time on Linux and I'm not really looking forward to Microsoft's future OS, not because it is bad/buggy now but because I am still not happy with some of the corporate ideals behind the OS. And yes, though I've been a long term Linux user, I'm not exactly happy about things there either.

    It's quite obvious that W8.x was a failure because the company wanted to take over the tablet market as fast as possible without taking into account that the two incumbent providers were strong, embedded and unlikely to pull a "Sega".

    W10 attempts to recover the lost ground but still insists on making overtures to the touch world which screws up the desktop for those of us with more traditional systems and, so it seems, reduces the experience (sic) for touch users as well. It all comes back to corporate greed - they want one product to satisfy everyone, hence making the marketing cheaper amongst other things. They want us to adopt the Store approach and sod the win32/equivalent side. They want us all locked into the cloud. Yes, W10 is free for the first year but has anyone considered the possible side costs involved with this?

    And no, I shall not insist that Linux is the only way out, especially given the current push to systemd by all and sundry amongst other objections I have there (Hey! openSUSE! I'm looking very carefully at this "42" idea of yours and I'm not sure that it is much different to what Microsoft are doing with W10!)

    Anyway, I already have one of my three machines ready for the upgrade. One that doesn't get a lot of use otherwise and one that I can happily reset should I need to, and I have Classic Shell and 8GadgetPack ready to roll if needed.

  101. zen1

    I hate to say it...

    But I actually miss Bill Gates at the helm. I've been using the 10 beta for a couple of weeks and it's interface is 100% better than that of the 8.x debacle... But I still fucking hate it. As one of the first posters intimated, I'm going to wait until Win 7 support ends.

  102. swooosh

    Still not worth abandoning Win7 if you ask me

    Did all UI designers become retarded? How do you justify 5% content in 95% empty space? A tiny app icon inside a 50+times larger box? Or a reterd font size to optically fill what would otherwise be empty space? This bloated modern UI wave is the IT shoulder-pads of this decade. Irritating, purposelss and a waste of space.

    I believe it to be harmful to brain development too. First all IT went flat and then empry. There is no natural place that contains so little information in so much space, proportionally speaking. Using such UI over prolonged periods of time must have some negative effects on the perception of detail and on every cognitive process that depends on it. Don't let your kids near that crap!

  103. thomas k

    Nice wallpaper

    Wow, I really like that desktop wallpaper in the 1st screenshot.

  104. kitekrazy

    Be careful of Free Windows 10

    If you have a retail license of 7 or 8, your free 10 may be just like an OEM which means certain changes in hardware will make you have to buy a new license.

    1. Timmy B

      Re: Be careful of Free Windows 10

      Got any solid information to back that up?

  105. Martin H Watson

    DOS 3.3

  106. mi pen

    Windows 10 uninstalled.

    I tried Windows 10 twice but finally removed Windows 10 a few days ago. Its a real stinker and Microsoft must have been panicking to release it in this state. Its buggy, graphics card die in Windows 10 and it BSODs often.

    Right piece of junk.

    1. bellyfuz

      Re: Windows 10 uninstalled.

      Diddo. POS. Don't waste your time. Stick to Win 7 or 8.1. If you need Direct X Good luck to you. Otherwise buy a console.

  107. sain1rishab

    i got the window 10by default my new pc but after use some times i m not happy with it..... after i go back for my pervious windows.

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