Windows 10 is due in one month: Will it be ready? The release of Windows 10 is set for 29 July, just one month from now. It will be a significant moment, marking the first Windows 10 release in a wave that will eventually include Windows Mobile and Xbox, and is critically important to Microsoft following the poor reception for Windows 8. This time, Microsoft is not following …
Correct. Automatically pushing this beta to end users with no way back is stupid beyond belief. With the loathsome Windows 8.x, it needed someone with at least some tech knowledge to manage the "upgrade". The support problems on even the slightest failure will make the Win8/Vista problems seem like a summer picnic. Think of the skill level of ordinary home users, not Reg readers. Most would be pushed to even tell you what version of Windows they are running.
Automatically pushed? It's an opt-in system where users choose whether to install it. Also the 8.1 upgrade was as easy as installing an app from the store (albeit a very large app). Unless something went wrong (just like any other upgrade/patch process can go wrong) the 8.1 pack needed precisely bugger all technical knowledge to install.
Admittedly I would prefer a little more caution on Microsoft's part with this release. But the level of most users that you mention is why they're doing it - so that they actually get people onto the platform. A window that says "Look! New shinies for free!" has a good chance of getting your average home user to upgrade. An advert for a £150 retail disc or a slightly faster or slimmer new PC won't.
Getting my coat so that I can go and hide in the downvote-bomb-proof bunker -->
> Also the 8.1 upgrade was as easy as installing an app from the store (albeit a very large app).
Yeah, well I don't so much care for the monolithic upgrade path MSWin provides. On Linux Mint it's a lot more modular, and you can continue using your system while dist-upgrade proceeds in the background. And far easier to recover and pick up the upgrade when you encounter problems.
"
On Linux Mint it's a lot more modular, and you can continue using your system while dist-upgrade proceeds in the background. And far easier to recover and pick up the upgrade when you encounter problems.
"
I suggest that the average home user would not know what modules to upgrade, and if the system borks after an upgrade would not have a clue how to recover. I'm reasonably computer-literate, but when a Linux machine refused to complete a boot following the installation of a graphics driver update, I gave up after spending 2 hours trying to revert it back to a working system.
"Also the 8.1 upgrade was as easy as installing an app from the store (albeit a very large app)."
8.1 was really a service pack for 8, so it was very mystifying why it never appeared in Windows Update, which is surely where it belonged? I ran Classic Shell on 8 (which anyone with any sanity would do on a desktop), so never even had a store icon in the first place (trying to find the store in that scenario was "fun"). When I went to the store on the release day of 8.1 (and it had been definitely launched, including in the UK) and searched for "Windows 8.1", it found nothing!
Instead, I Googled around (ever tried a search on the MS site...you'll know why Google is your friend) and eventually found the *5* large separate KB downloads (nope, I've no idea why MS didn't have a single offline installer for the 8.1 update..another stupid decision). Got those installed and - voila - 8.1 finally turned up. Not as easy as it sounds then!
>> Also the 8.1 upgrade was as easy as installing an app from the store (albeit a very large app).
You mean that upgrade which MS told a large number of people that they had to download the 8.1 update, do a safe boot then manually run the update? Sure...
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2226753/microsoft-subnet/how-users-are-fixing-windows-8-1-update-install-problems.html
The big unknown:
Faced with a failed upgrade and a borked machine how many home users will opt for a new tablet (or phone) instead of paying the ransom to get their old technology PC fixed (only to discover that Redmond has borked their trusty Win 7 operating system).
I would say that the big unknown is actually statistics on how many of these upgrades actually fail. I suspect that in reality it's a very low number.
I'd also be interested to see that failure as a percentage relative to the number of users and compared to similar failures on other operating systems.
I think the bigger issue is when enough people have borked systems, say ~1% it will a PR disaster. Most people will end up spending a lot of money and someone's time and effort to fix the mess. A complete W7 install with software, maybe 2 hrs minimum and possibly much worse.
I would imagine ~1% of failures would be considered a success, albeit one with a fair amount of noise.
If you think of the user-base numbers involved, ~1% is damnably good. I would expect closer to 5%. Although, enough safeguards in the installer should reduce "borked" installs to just "failed" (no effect), which will probably make that figure even higher.
"Is the, particularly UK, broadband infrastructure going to have the capacity to upgrade all the qualifying Win 7 and the relatively few Win 8.1 machines to Windows 10?"
Probably. Microsoft has some neat peer to peer technology in that space:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2015/03/16/windows-10-to-use-bittorrent-style-p2p-to-deliver-updates/
Presumably they have learnt something from the speed at which their latest ISOs are pirated....
"Windows 10 is due in one month: Will it be ready?"
I am running build 10149 on a couple of laptops and it's pretty much RTM ready now. From here on in it's just about polishing it up as much as they can before release.
Windows Mobile 10 is a bit behind - but that is not being released until later in the year. The current "fast" preview is now quite usable though (10136 I think). This is the first phone build that I would say is suitable for widespread beta testing.
This, exactly. On the desktop it's already perfectly useable; it's only the TOS (keylogging) that prevent me from using it for real, paying, work. Even the mobile is useable at the latest build, although I've only got it on my spare phone (925) not _quite_ ready to put it on the daily 930. The rate of improvement has been huge though over the last couple of builds.
Is there not a consumer-protection-law, protecting consumers against i.e. unfinished, broken, faulty/buggy software?
As far as I can see, those software-corp/s are getting their software tested by their customers and those corp/s getting practically paid in advance + free-of-charge testing through customers.
Those software-corp/s should have to provide proof that their software/s is/are ready for release.
Everything else is/are lies, which should also be criminalised under the law.
100% agreed here. I've been diligently installing Windows 10 every single time a new ISO build is released and it's buggy beyond belief. Two months ago I've already been telling my contacts that I absolutely do not see how Microsoft is going to be able to release Windows 10 as a stable OS by their targeted launch date. And now with only a month to go my worries and concerns are amplified.
Even as of the latest build the Start Menu seemingly goes AWOL every single time our planets aren't aligned to its liking and issuing a reboot does not actually resolve the problem most of the time.
I've also been running into a problem whereby opening a new Explorer window would spawn 2-4 instances and I eventually narrowed it down to the "Launch folder windows in a separate process" feature in Windows 10 being bugged. Out of habit I've always checked this option since as long as I can remember it being around as it used to help keep other windows open shall one crash.
Then comes the Start Menu itself. If and when it does decide to work I still feel that it's too damned clunky for its own good. The "All Programs" menu in Windows 7 is compact and worked well in displaying dozens of applications without much scrolling. The "All Apps" menu in Windows 10 with its huge font and crevices between objects requires scrolling after merely ten apps.
Now I get Microsoft is trying to force users to use its bloody search feature to navigate the operating system but the problem with that is that you cannot always remember what it is you are looking for.
My biggest beef however is the whole concept of "apps." Namely "universal apps." Microsoft has been touting this "apps" crap since Windows 8 and with Windows 10 the idea is to write one app which works on your desktop, tablet and phone. Sounds good in theory if you ignore the fact that each device has vastly different user interface requirements.
The net problem is that many developers (including Microsoft themselves) write their apps to be compliant with the lowest common denominator (read: phone) and we end up with a fucking oversized Fisher Price interface when used on a desktop with font sizes varying from 24-48 and the need to scroll in every imaginable direction to get the most minute of tasks accomplished.
Another beef I have is that these apps are forced down your throat when you install Windows 10 whether you like it or not. I hate this. Does it really take much effort to add a "Customize Installation" button in the Windows installer? I don't have a problem with Windows being so easy to install that spamming "Next" is all you need to do. But does some level of pre-installation customization hurt?
Sure I can issue a single Powershell command to deal with these apps. But is that really necessary?
I've sincerely been trying to love Windows 10 because I do believe in the architectural benefits Windows 10 has to offer. Not easy. Not in its current state. I see what Microsoft is trying to do by "standardizing" the Windows experience with "apps." By trying to accomplish a unified look and feel between Windows and third party "apps." This however assumes that the basic interface is kosher.
And it is not.
I know 10130 is an old build now and that there are others that can be obtained by non-official routes, but that means that the majority of Insiders still won't have seen the latest - even if you and others think it's better.
The problem is the clear difference in opinion that has been evident all along - what does 'better' mean?
Someone at Microsoft, starting from Nadella, is utterly unable to understand the whole "IT world". Driven by fashion only, reading too much press without a clue for IT, that dictates now IT is "consumer driven" because of the large number of smartphones in the hands of true lusers (including most of those journalists without a clue about IT...), do they now want to force every user outside a corporate LAN into a "consumer" OS? There are not a few people for whom their "home" PCs are still working tools, and need to be stable as much as their "work" counterparts. They may not like to become forced beta testers. I'm afraid Nadella took the idea of the caste system of his native country, and it's trying to apply it to Windows users... and well, I don't like it at all...
"There are not a few people for whom their "home" PCs are still working tools, and need to be stable as much as their "work" counterparts"
In net terms my home IT (W8.1 Update + Classic Shell) is substantially faster, more stable and more useable than my enterprise IT (W7). Admittedly there's only a minor stability difference between the clients (which in my experience favours 8.1 Update), but when you throw in all the rest of the joys and benefits that "professional support" in enterprise has, any intelligent home user probably doesn't know how lucky they are.
The interface of 8 and offspring is still a mess. But as an OS, in all round terms it's the best that Microsoft have ever offered. I was going to say "but that's not saying much", and then thought that the fractalised Linux distros are hardly something to write home about, and there's a long list of known issues within the kernel. Likewise Apple OS - an impressive marketing achievement rather than a technical one.
The issue is not the OS kernel or the UI - it's being forced to accept each and every update MS decides it needs to test. It would be an issue for 7 or 8.x as well.
I've some expensive hardware connected to my home PC, and even before moving to 10 I need to ensure it works, or I may not upgrade as long as 7 is supported, and the hardware still works and doesn't need replacement. And if it works, the last thing I want is some update making it stop working.
"if it works, the last thing I want is some update making it stop working"
This is why botnets exist, which cost the world an awful lot of money. It's important to keep up to date with security fixes. I agree they should be separated where possible, but sometimes a piece of code just has to be refactored to fix flaws in it, and you need an update to a component.
The best way to do this is as fast as possible, keeping the updates as small as possible.
You (nah, not you personally) actively chose Linux or Mac while Windows is being shoved down your throat. Did you notice there isn't nay "Thanks, but no thanks!" button on the Windows 10 nagging "reserve your copy of Win10" screen ? Each time a "superior" product is being shoved like this to me it brings me memories on how the ancient communist system was working long time ago in a far, far away country.
Oh, and if Linux diversity overwhelms you, then I pity you for each time you have to buy shoes, clothing, a car and anything that requires some choice. I'm sure a large uniform mass of people all dressed up in blue buttoned-up working clothes riding bicycles and living in identical houses would make you feel at ease.
AC
Rubbish.
shoes/clothing, even to some degree cars are on display before you buy, have a standard interface, and a small number of standard components.
Choices are limited and simple.
Shoes: Laces/slip-on (with Velcro for the Linux users).
Shirts; Long sleeve/short sleeve (With a double cuff for the Linux users)
Cars Petrol/diesel (With LPG for the Linux users)
And so on.
1. The removal of Patch Tuesdays so whoops OUR BAD! If something breaks... At least we'll have it fixed before we ship it to Enterprise!
2. Windows as a Service... Perhaps the BIGGEST SERVICE ON THE WEB.... Yeah.. No! See Point 1.
3. Please try out our new App Store where you can buy your W2k Theme(s), for only $19.95(USD), AMEX, and Visa accepted! This is where MicroSoft really want to herd us down into, and I for One won't stand for it!
Is there even just One really tangible thing about Windows OSX that redeems the rest?! Besides the imminent threat that Security Updates for Windows 7 might get pushed up from its 01.14.20 expiry date?! Just One... And Windows 8.x'ers need not mention the return of the Start Menu (Button).... It never left me long enough to crave something as awful as WinOSX.
Which is actually starting to sound a bit like where they were with XP the whole time, But with a (hopefully to them), money spinning crApp Store inside of it.
So now, Windows analyses what type of device it is installed on, and stops installing updates once it detects that the device is no longer supported - perhaps depending on the contract it had with the OEM?
Previously, at least everyone on Windows 7 had the same end-of-support date.
With Windows 10, will you even know at purchase time how long your device is supported for?
> So now, Windows analyses what type of device it is installed on, and stops installing updates once it detects that the device is no longer supported - perhaps depending on the contract it had with the OEM?
Oh look, FUD.
No. It just means you can't buy a £50 7" tablet and then transfer the license to your desktop.
You could never do that - OEM licenses are always tied to the device they're installed to - but I bought a full retail copy of Windows 7 Ultimate which I can actually move from an old PC from a new one. I bought a more expensive retail copy exactly for that reason, because I need to upgrade only when I'm sure everything I need to use works without issues - and be able to transfer the license from one PC to another if I need.
@dogged: completely ignoring the observation that they remembered to add 'supported' this time. Not 'lifetime' but 'supported lifetime' - they don't have the same meaning.
More honest but most of us assumed they had no intention of Win10 actually having perpetual support on anything or even guaranteed support for the actual life of your OEM licensed device.
Still nothing there guaranteeing all support will be covered by my prepaid licence, not hidden in the store as a paid option.
@ illiad
Quote: "DO watch out for "windows with bing" - it is a cheap version that is NOT upgradeable!!"
You'd best tell MS then, as according to MS it is upgradable :
---snip---
From Edition : Windows 8.14
To Edition : Windows 10 Home
4Also applies to Windows 8.1 country specific editions, Windows 8.1 Single Language, Windows 8.1 with Bing.
---snip---
Taken from https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-specifications
If Windows 10 is going to be a rolling-updates OS, does this mean there will never be Windows 11?
If so, it's clear they can't support all hardware forever; the question then is how long they will support any particular device, and they could drop it at any time.
If not, and you bought your machine with Windows 10, then it would be expected that you may or may not be able to run Windows 11 on it. But then, that's pretty much the same as today.
> Oh look, FUD. No. It just means you can't buy a £50 7" tablet and then transfer the license to your desktop.
I think AC was suggesting that MS and a lot of the manufacturers would *really* like it if they could move past "planned obsolescence" and move straight on to "forced obsolescence".
I'm up for a free OS but not for auto-updating my PC and not having a way to re-install if things go bad.
I know I get some choice when the W10 installation is performed but does anyone know if the 3Gb download can be saved to a DVD/USB stick as a backup in case things go wrong? Historically, you could often do a clean install even with upgrade-only media IIRC.
I don't know but I hope so. Windows 8.1 update stopped working on one of my laptops last year, and now it just gives a useless error number, so if Win 10 isn't available as an installable download that computer is well and truly stuffed.
"Does anyone know if the 3Gb download can be saved to a DVD/USB stick as a backup in case things go wrong?"
Looks like it.
"With Windows 10, you can create your own recovery media and back up the pristine state of the operating system and preinstalled software. If things go wrong and you are unable to refresh or reset your device successfully, you can boot the device using recovery media and reset to the prior pristine state."
Source:-
http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/03/16/how-windows-10-achieves-its-compact-footprint/
http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/03/16/how-windows-10-achieves-its-compact-footprint/
TL;DR: This "compact footprint" means that Windows is now only 7.8GB of *compressed* filesystem, i.e. 12 CDs of compressed data. This makes it "lightweight and highly mobile"
Come off it Microsoft. Don't install all the crap. There's this thing called The Internet that users could download optional extensions through - if and when they need them.
Actually, no, there isn't.
If the installation media doesn't contain drivers that run your motherboard, graphics adapter, USB (multiple filesystems), SATA, PCI-E Flash, CD/DVD drive, NIC/WiFi, keyboard, mouse, touchscreen, as well as a browser, then you cannot go to the Internet and get it.
The core installation media has to support every single one of the above that Microsoft have ever heard of, as well as every combination thereof.
I've been sat with a Windows machine that didn't support its network card, and boy are you stuffed at that point if you don't have another computer and some way of transferring files.
A 650MB Linux install CD manages to ship with drivers for pretty much anything. And if there's any special driver needed, you typically put it on a USB key and insert it during the installation (e.g. Debian works this way for the "non-free" drivers and firmware)
If home Windows is like Arch (a Linux rolling distro) then I suspect there will need to be a Manjaro available soon (Arch with a month or so delay on updated packages and a nice installer) to keep support costs sane.
I might just restore Windows 7 on the refurbished Dell laptop and see what happens. I'm behind on the newer Micrsoft things.
"If home Windows is like Arch..."
Not really, I see it more like PCLinuxOS. A rolling release distro with a lot of easy to use tools.
Arch and Gentoo are for the hard-core enthusiasts, they take no prisoners and expect users to know what they are doing. PCLOS on the other hand is a bit more forgiving and Win 10 must be the same or I foresee tears before bedtime.
Actually, that appears to be the plan... "as a service".. When the "supported lifetime" (6 months? 6 years?) ends, they'll roll out the new one and for only $XX per month, your PC will work. I'm seeing quite a bit of software moving into that business model and I'll be damned if I like it.
Meeting Microsoft's own development plan is one thing, and it's possible to form an opinion on whether or not they have the time to fix all the known flaws.
The big unknown to me is whether or not the end result will be acceptable, by which I mean whether or not those who comment loudly on new OSs (such as us here) think it's OK. If they don't think it's OK, then Microsoft are going to have trouble selling this thing.
Issues that bother me, and that I see no sign of Microsoft rectifying include:
# Loss of control of updates and the clear aim to use home users as beta testers forever.
# The fact that privacy and data-sharing settings default during installation to "Come and get me, baby".
# The need for a Microsoft Account for many features to work.
# Perceived poor functionality and performance of many of the apps.
I will say this - its better than Windows 8.1 from the outer view, but what's going on behind the scenes does worry me a little.
I've only just started playing with Windows 10, but that's pretty much my initial reaction.
Microsoft seems to have finally, after several false starts, totally abandoned any pretence that Windows is primarily a platform on which to run applications and turned it into a digital lifestyle cocoon. Apart from not wanting all of my data synced to OneDrive or sent to Microsoft for my convenience or "security", having got the start menu back, I don't really want half of its screen estate filled with stuff scraped from the internet every few minutes on the assumption that I have no attention sp.. Whoah! Taylor Swift!
Even the default titles for the tile groups in the start menu (like "play and explore") seem to be culled from kindergarten activities. Yes, I know you can change all of this, but it's wearisome when you have constantly to fight against been patronised or mugged for your data.
It's also alarmingly inconsistent. Right click on a start menu item and you get an apparently random selection of options (which don't include deleting the item), but drag it to the desktop and right-clicking the same icon gives you different options still (which do include deleting the item).
Microsoft seems to be struggling to find a place for Windows in an online world, or at least one that justifies its price tag, but I for one am not sold on data-slurping juvenilia for the Facebook generation.
My main opinion of Windows 10 is that it is really Windows 8.1 with even less respect for your privacy (Cortana does not work without surrendering your privacy and the search box searches with Bing first then your programs, settings, and files even if you turned of Bing universal search), a smaller version of the start screen, and multiple desktops. I realize there is a little more to that, but if I had to describe Win10 in a concise manner, that is what I would say.
The features people really want -- like a fully customizable start screen that was found in all other versions of Windows, the option to enable Aero, a proper backup program, the return of F8, and to stop calling programs "apps" -- are not there. Those are serious flaws.
Come on peeps. You're missing the point. This is a strategic work generation program. If it was perfect there would be no need for puter mechanics and lots of IT bods would be out of a job.
You should be praising MS for releasing shit to keep food on your tables.
Personally I'm pleased I run no Windows boxen. Allows me to do something constructive with my life... :-)
ROFLMAO....
"Personally I'm pleased I run no Windows boxen. Allows me to do something constructive with my life... :-)"
So you consider trolling Microsoft OS threads as something constructive ? Why would you even be remotely interested in reading a Windows 10 thread?
By the way, WTF is a "puter mechanic.."
Personally I've used some distro or other of Linux 'almost' exclusively since 2000 (I say 'almost' as I was dual booting on occasion up until 2011 (and there's work, where I often have no choice).
I'm still interested in any new version of Windows enough to read most articles.
You never know, they might release something more compelling that what I'm currently using...
(and it's a better soap opera than anything currently on the telly)
@Jake
@Jake
You managed to use "Slackware" and "No muss, no fuss. It just works." in the same comment..
Try proving that by giving a Slackware ISO to a newbie and allowing him to install by himself with "No muss, no fuss." Please make a video of his facial reactions after he inserts the ISO and reboots the PC...
Nothing nicer that the following for a newbie:
"If you need to pass extra parameters to the kernel"
"please select your Keymap"
"Partition the disk".
As a reminder Jake, the thread is about the upcoming Windows 10 release not about yet another example of why people hate Linux Beards for being prudish.
I thought all threads that mention Microsoft on theregister were where Windows people try to justify using their crapware and putting down anyone that uses Linux even though Linux is technically far better - "Beards", I mean come on... turn that round should you be called "prepubescent"?
Please don't use the word "Crapware" without first giving an indication of what you are talking about, please elaborate on the so called Crapware, do you have real world examples or smply those that you have heard about...
No-one is putting down "Linux Users", what is being put down is that attitude of Jake.... Jake does not represent "Linux Users" as a whole, case in point I use Linux on 4 of my home systems but my primary work machine remains a windows machine. ( not including a couple of RASPIs).
"Beards" is a relatively timid slant.. I am sure that most "Linux Users" are intelligent enought to simply brush their beards and forget the whimsical nature of the jest.
Windows is crapware. I do have real world examples comparing it with something much better:-
It is less scalable than Linux
It less secure than Linux
It is less performant than Linux
It is less stable than Liux
It has to be rebooted quite a lot
Closed source nature of Windows means that it is non portable
Bored now - the list goes on
Why use a slant "Beards" at all? I can think of other words that started as slants with reference to racial minorities (it is very small minded thinking!)....
"Try proving that by giving a Slackware ISO to a newbie and allowing him to install by himself with "No muss, no fuss." Please make a video of his facial reactions after he inserts the ISO and reboots the PC..."
Mu.
Give any newbie a bootable disk image & a bare computer. Please make a video of his facial reactions after he inserts the bootable disk and reboots the PC...
After I re-installed software on my techno-phobe Mom & techno-cant Great Aunt's computers, support calls from them dropped from three or four a month to zero. None. Zilch.[0]
I switched them from Windows to a highly customized (for them) variation of Slackware. The installer was wetware, not so-called software ... it doesn't hurt if said installer understands the exact needs of the targeted users.
Expecting a bog-stock OS install to be all things to all people on all hardware is the root of most end user problems, and no number of bandaids will change that.
"As a reminder Jake"
That's "jake". "Jake" is a completely different commentard in this forum.
"the thread is about the upcoming Windows 10 release"
No. The actual question was "will it be ready". IMO, the answer is no. Not in my production systems, anyway. And yes, I'm up to date and modern when it comes to understanding Redmond products (and Cupertino, for that matter). Kinda in my job description.
"not about yet another example of why people hate Linux Beards for being prudish."
Despite well over a third of a century of un*x experience, I do not now, and never have had, a beard. I'm not being prudish, I'm being honest.
[0] To be fair, I had to go plug a new USB printer into Mom's computer five-ish years ago ... but I would have had to do that regardless of OS; she's afraid to plug anything into it.
One month from release and it still has stability issues, games crash, it rebooted whilst watching a film (it was applying an update!!!!), and all this on a rock solid (five years plus), Win7 gaming machine.
Oh yea, everytime I shut down it throws up an error ms that I have to click to close - and, apart from the fast boot, I'm not sure what it offers, I still get more frames ps using DX9 and I prefer skeuomorphism to boring flat.
My opinion: Windows 7 is still the best. (Well - Ubuntu is No1, but work & gaming tie me to the MS ecosystem)
Are you saying that you are surprised to finds bugs on Beta software ?
With currently less the a month to go, before Launch. You'd might incorrectly think that the Software was generally getting slowly fit for purpose now.
So What's the overall difference between us Plebs getting shafted with a rolling Beta, and the unwashed Windows Insiders rabble who aren't quite up to the standards of our polite sociality? Other then not actually being given... At least officially, an opt-out from all the data mining that MicroSoft can get away with?!
I can only presume that Microsoft will release an RTM that probably has less features than the PGP (Pleb Guineau Pig) version..
ie you get to test the Enterprise Version and they get the cut down Home Version that doesn't have the advanced, difficult to debug, release on time applications...
Pure supposition on my behalf because otherwise I have no idea how they will manage to pull of a Ready for the Unwashed version in only one month.
...Reading in-flight magazines... Come in Microsoft, your time is up....
@ JustaKOS
"# Loss of control of updates and the clear aim to use home users as beta testers forever.
# The fact that privacy and data-sharing settings default during installation to "Come and get me, baby".
# The need for a Microsoft Account for many features to work."
As an excited geek of many years, I really want to download it as soon as it is released and as a savvy techy of many years, everything is screaming at me not to do so. Deity$ knows what the average consumer will think when they get the pop up.
I hereby volunteer to be a gamma-tester for the "service pack 1" types. ;)
M$ says .. Once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device.
So if W10 has life cycle of 15 years, but I keep the same hardwrae running for 20 years (humour me), will M$ be liable to provide updates or come up with a loop hole?
"
So if W10 has life cycle of 15 years, but I keep the same hardwrae running for 20 years (humour me), will M$ be liable to provide updates or come up with a loop hole?
"
Microsoft say it will keep you running for the *supported* lifetime of your hardware. What percentage of computer hardware do you have that has received support for 20 years? Try complaining that the driver for a 1995 graphics card doesn't work properly with the latest video game and see if the manufacturer is interested in providing a fix, for example.
I'm going to scrape together some spare components and build myself a test PC. I will load a legitimate copy of Win 7, and let it "auto update" to Win 10. By all accounts, this ought to get me on to the "free for life Win 10 as a service" package. I'm then going to start messing about by adding a second HD, changing memory, graphics cards, software etc.. and see just how long it lasts before it borks.
My guess is not very long at all, and that the "supported device" that MS have in mind is the one that came with Win 10 pre-installed - perhaps ideally a Surface where you can't change anything anyway, or even repair it when it breaks. My fear is that Win 10 will recognise the device on which it is first installed, but not the "new" device created by changing or upgrading hardware.
If I am right, and upgraded devices become unsupported fairly quickly, then users will have to go out and buy a new one, with a distinctly un-free copy of Win 10. Shock - horror - surprise!
Let's wait and see. In the meantime, my working environment will continue to be Linux, and I really cannot see anything coming out of MS that would ever make me want to go back.
We know.
At installation, it will race along and we will find it marvelous (those that have drunk the Cool-Aid, anyway). Over time, it will get slower, bloated and unstable. Patches will get bigger and bigger, and we'll need a terabyte disk just for the Windows folder.
We know Windows, Nadella. We've been using it since the 90's, and you've been polishing the same turd since.
But yeah, Win7/64 is the best version by far. And it's MINE. It does what I WANT. And YOU can't keep me from using it.
You can keep your "service". I will not be your cash cow.
The biggest problem is creaky old Windows Update which has to be just about the worst update mechanism of any OS. I would not like to do a new OS install on W10 in three years time if the current state of WU is anything to go by, it would take an eternity to patch the system.
>Implying this isn't the case for XP SP2 to SP3... Or just getting up-to-date on a fresh Windows 7 install.
While I agree sudo apt-get update && apt-get upgrade, Windows is not! It is the best we currently have, and I'm sure plenty of Plebs rely on reading about on a Thursday, or Friday Morning as to which "updates" are then best avoided!
With Windows OSX we don't really have that choice it seems now. So if MicroSoft wants to install some nagware UPDATE TO WINDOWS TODAY! ZM0G! (al-la Like a recent nagware update that they made available to both Windows 7, & 8.x or something more insidious like XPs useless (to anyone who isn't MicroSoft), WGA Call Home Update, which they had the cheek to brand as CRITICAL!
I wouldn't trust Microsoft's updates as far as I could spit a lightly fried stoat in a bun.... I however accept 'em for what they are at face vale.
On the same hand I'm probably just as wrong to assume that Linux Updates are much better, if only that they're mostly peer reviewed before going up.
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May I suggest that the authors of Cinammon's UI in the current Linux Mint distro get some lawyers to look at the Win10 screenshots in this article?
Where exactly are you seeing Mint in all of that? 'Cause to be fair to MicroSoft... I'm not seeing what your seeing...
Well I have a W7 laptop. This is my workhorse. In one year to get the update for free, I will backup image. Install w10 and activate. Backup image , restore W7 , Continue to work…
On this laptop, I have all soft and a vmware player with a W8.1 VM and W10 VM. I usual, I will every one or two weeks , boot vm , updtate, shutdown…
At Work with our W7 and XP and one NT4 computer not on the net we will …
Just work…
This way I will be able to watch this worldwide beta / guinea pig experiment pass along…
By the way, if you want me to upgrade to win10+
1-remove auto update on patch (I always wait for one week to see if we get a "don't install this patch message"
2-remove auto save cloud file (my file are for me only thank you)
3-remove search outside pc ( I care for my files, I have google to find what I need elsewhere…)
4-remove metro (don’t need a phone applet on my desk thankyou) By the way I can't remove unused waste space on W10 menu even if I remove all metro craplets…
5-dont install appstore for nothing. I will buy my soft from provider directly without added tax and with direct support.
Steve
Previous commentards have discussed such things as how buggy the betas are, what is meant by the "supported lifetime" of the device, and so on. So I'll pick on something else from the article...
"Unfortunately there are yet sites that do not work correctly with Edge, where changing to IE (or an alternative browser) fixes the issue."
I suspect the problem is websites relying on browser sniffing to make certain things work, and either they don't recognise Edge (and/or they don't degrade gracefully when faced with something they don't recognise), or Edge is being recognised as something else (for example, a version of IE - perhaps in some cases, the site is just picking up on "Microsoft" in the browser string?) and being served [un]suitable HTML/CSS/Javascript as a result.
If so, the problem lies with the websites rather than the browser - although it's a problem that is (at least partly) of Microsoft's own making - and it is the sites that need fixing. If Microsoft 'fix' Edge, then it's just going to turn it into a new version of IE.
folder security permissions not inheriting on child folders and files is still probably broken like in windows 7, so windows 10 is just another lame release for home users
administrators group overrides authenticated users, and users, you should`nt need one or the other or both
take a new install, and program files, add administrators to the audio and ownership, and then administrators group to all child objects, and all permission will be broke in windows 7
thumbs down, thumbs down.. you need to try it on a virtual box
if program files is the parent and not inheriting permissions from the drives root, then program files/folders and files with have permissions set, any other lower folder or files will have no permissions set, if you tell program files to replace and inherit all permissions from program files
then installing new program will all be broke as well
good admin tools add they`re own group or user to use for security permissions, which you cannot use for most of your drive
like this http://s16.postimg.org/fodg3lout/win7_permissions.png
right click on any file or folder, and in security tab, there will be no permissions set, so you will have todo all permissions file by file, which is rubbish if you do the same on the windows folder
"you will have todo all permissions file by file, which is rubbish if you do the same on the windows folder"
No - no you don't. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it broken. If you screwed up the permissions on your Windows folder, run this from an elevated Command Prompt:
secedit /configure /cfg %windir%\inf\defltbase.inf /db defltbase.sdb /verbose
"folder security permissions not inheriting on child folders and files is still probably broken like in windows 7"
This has never been broken as far as I know. You realise inherritance can be deliberately disabled? I suspect the actual problem is somewhere between your chair and keyboard...
"administrators group overrides authenticated users, and users,"
No, it can coexist as a separate permission. It doesnt override anything.
"you should`nt need one or the other or both"
Yes you should for a secure system. Admin / root rights should always require a different account from your normal use.
"take a new install, and program files, add administrators to the audio and ownership, and then administrators group to all child objects,"
Works fine for me. Adminstrators group has access to the Program Files folder by default though so you wouldn't need to add it unless you already screwed something up...
"and all permission will be broke in windows 7"
I assume you mean broken. Broke as an adjective only means out of money!
I see that we can do a clean install using the same download as the upgrade, but only if we upgrade first.
So its not as bad as it originally looked but is still a waste of time upgrading before clean installing.
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-win_upgrade/reinstalling-windows-10-after-upgrade/578d0b7f-57e4-4893-b9d1-6cfac0d6290a?page=1&tab=question&status=AllReplies
"Q: After doing a free upgrade to Windows 10, how do I clean install Windows 10 subsequently?
A: Once your device upgrades to Windows 10 using the free upgrade offer and activates online automatically, you will be able to clean install (i.e. boot from media and install Windows 10) the same edition of Windows 10 that you upgraded to on the same device during and after the free upgrade offer. You will not be required to purchase Windows 10 or go back to your prior down-level version of Windows.
Windows 10 FAQ covers which edition of Windows you'll get upgraded to depending on the edition of Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 that you start from (Refer to the question "What edition of Windows will I get as part of this free upgrade?"). More information on Windows 10 editions was published last month.
To enable clean installation of Windows 10 on devices that upgraded and activated online using the free upgrade offer
You will be able to download and create installation media on a USB drive or DVD for the appropriate Windows 10 Edition
You will be able to skip entering the product key during Windows 10 Setup. Windows 10 will activate online automatically on such devices. The skip option is only available when booting from media and launching setup
The automatic online activation will occur seamlessly after clean installing Windows 10 if the device had previously upgraded and activated online the same Edition of Windows 10. No product keys are required.
Q: What happens if I change the hardware configuration of my Windows 10 device?
A: If the hardware configuration of your Windows 10 device changes significantly (e.g. motherboard change) Windows may require re-activation on the device. This is the same experience as prior versions of Windows (e.g. Windows 7 and Windows 8.1). The free upgrade offer will not apply to activation of Windows 10 in such scenarios where hardware changes reset Activation."
I understood your concern here. But MS "generates" the hidden CD-key, with which they track your PC, only if you upgrade first and the setup sends them the hidden key.
Then you can setup from scratch, and the setup program will be able to compare your setup with a stored key in MS servers as soon you activate the network access. That's why you don't need a cd-key, because the program generates one and compares with an authorized one in MS servers.
That is their DRM, disguised during setup, in short.
I'm a windows 10 technical preview insider, in fact I'm writing this on my "window 10" laptop. I am just going to say I love it. they're making tremendous progress and it's very likely that they will be done in time but of course I can't know for sure, I'm not there.
Has anyone tried the latest 3DMark DirectX 10 tests on a dual graphics card machine with nvidia optimus.
Mine has the screen shifted by half horizontally and vertically. The top of the screen is black and the bottom has the picture starting from the middle but it continues from the left side after filling the right side. The bottom half of the picture is missing. This is with the latest preview version and the latest nvidia driver for windows 10.
DirectX 9 works.
DirectX 10 seems to have problems switching to fullscreen.
Stopped reading at that point, could not understand the concept.
Unless they are trying to say there is a limited supply and strong demand, can't be that, shirley.
To fund a place for native peoples? crowd funding a "reservation", more likely but still tenuous.
Sorry nothing comes to mind.
It seems to be from Microsoft acquiring Pando Networks in 2013, they may be using P2P distribution technology (around) the 29th July 2015.
MS could in theory, finalise sections of the Windows 10 code in layers and start to silently send layers of the ISO shortly before the 29th July. Then issue a much smaller final download on the 29th July 2015, to complete the 3.5GB ISO, along with a Delta Final Update to the parts already sent, i.e. resend any sections which contain show stopper bugs. (I'll pre-empt the reply: So, yes a potential delta of 3.5GB!)
I'd like to think MS were thinking on their feet, but its a shame the MS Marketing Dept is completely useless in every repect, even to the point of naming Windows 10 Final / RTM the "Windows 10 CRS-7 Edition RTM", given half the chance.
Lots of comments, far too many to read unfortunately.
Does anyone have the skinny on whether W10 Pro will have the option to take the updates monthly rather than on a rolling basis?
And IIRC eligible Retail versions of Windows will become effectively tied to the device they reside on when they are upgraded? (i.e. you can't just uninstall and reinstall on another device)?
I understand there is a '30-day try before you buy (for free)' at which point the old licence is forfeit and the new licence should be the equivalent version - just the lack of clarity about updates on Pro (is it a consumer grade SKU or business grade?)
"Does anyone have the skinny on whether W10 Pro will have the option to take the updates monthly rather than on a rolling basis?"
No it won't.
"And IIRC eligible Retail versions of Windows will become effectively tied to the device they reside on when they are upgraded"
Yes just like they are now with the existing key.
I didn't think it would be ready either but after installing build 10240 on 4 different systems its clear that it is, even the x32 version on my (wimboot) tablet is bug free.its amazing what Microsoft can accomplish when their asses are on the line, I was one of the suckers that bought Windows 8 and aside from being utter crap it was loaded with infuriating bugs like the charm bar not showing up half the time, BSODs and driver issues, it still pisses me off now thinking about it.
Anyways Windows 10 isn't like that so hopefully it'll go as well for everyone else as it has for me, best of luck to everyone
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