back to article Trans-Pacific Partnership stalled says Australian trade minister

The controversial Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP), thought to include SOPA-style anti-piracy provisions, among other nasties - looks to be dead in the water: not only has the US Congress knocked back the “fast-track” mechanism that would have seen it signed off quickly, but Hillary Clinton has come down on the side of America's …

  1. Scoular

    In the public interest?

    A treaty affecting the citizens which has to be negotiated in private cannot be in the public interest.

    If it was intended to benefit the people then the proposers of the treaty would be happy to have the details made public.

    The need for secrecy tells us all we need to know about its intent.

  2. Mark 85 Silver badge

    There's a problem if this treaty isn't ratified?

    How? Other than some political types and corporate types lose some power and control, that is.

    Negotiating in secret is one thing, but if you want the people it affeds on-board, you damn well better lay it out up front. We went through this with that disaster called NAFTA and as I recall a couple of other "trade treaties"...

    1. RobHib

      Re: There's a problem if this treaty isn't ratified?

      Yeah, good. Just remember every single treaty, trade or otherwise, signed by your government reduces the extent and scope of your democracy. As all those signed treaty provisions (as well as the multitude of enabling legislation) are now locked out of any further consideration by the legislature for the life of the treaty.

      And governments can't change treaties easily, they can hang around for centuries.

    2. noominy.noom

      Re: There's a problem if this treaty isn't ratified?

      I agree with your opinion concerning the TPP. But I don't recall NAFTA being at all like TPP. I have never been a policy wonk or political junkie, but I have always paid attention to things such as this and I don't recall NAFTA being secret. All of it was out in the open.

  3. Winkypop Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Let's hope the TPP is terminal

    It's "passing" would not be missed.

  4. RobHib

    It's only kept secret from the citizenry, not the corporations and multinationals who initiated it. That says everything.

    Glad there's US resistance, as here in puppet-country Oz all we ever do is say 'thank you' after being shafted by grossly unfair trade deals.

  5. Dr Scrum Master


    "Robb has told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation that the US needs to sort out its act soon, or the whole thing could unravel."

    And if it were to unravel... things would carry on exactly as they have been doing.

    1. GrumpyOldBloke

      Re: Why?

      Enabling legislation has already been passed by both the left and right wings of Team Australia including increased police powers, data retention, internet censorship, mandatory vaccinations - for poor people's kids and from the previous bending over - extension of IP protections. Our food labelling laws are already a joke so there should be no issue there. The Korean trade agreement had IP and ISD provisions and the Japanese agreement may also have had them so we will have to construct these in law. By the time TPP gets here the captain will stand proudly on the poop deck and tell us, as his predecessor did, that the treaty will require no changes to Australian law.

      If the TPP stalls it will be about timing not overreach. The political classes in the target Western countries are already sold. The Asians may put up a bit more of a fight but they can be told stories of big bad China, have their aircraft hijacked or industry destroyed to ensure they fall in to line. Shortly after the US puppet show on 8/11 we will get back to signing over our sovereignty to the corporations and the global banking cabals. By then the TPP will be yesterdays news, the stuff of conspiracy theorists.

      1. Yes Me Silver badge

        Re: Why?

        "... the captain will stand proudly on the poop deck."

        How appropriate.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    Best news in ages!

    1. Keven E.

      Re: Yay! (to the message, not the messenger)

      Hillary totally caved to the real democratist in the group, Bernie Sanders. She would've been more than happy to leverage these trade agreements if it would've helped lead to the oval office. She's losing ground and is pulling nicely further left.. trying hard to not lose actual democrats' votes. She'll eventually screw up. Sanders will call her out. The mainstream media and false claims like this article's (that it was Hillary Clinton's voice) will soon be replaced by the actual voice: someone thinking by and for the US people... not just following the "trade winds".

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "The need for secrecy tells us all we need to know about its intent."

    Its still alarming that things got this far... A Corporate land grab like never before and it may rise its ugly head again sometime. If anyone is still undecided please read this article about TTIP...

    You don't need to have seen A Civil Action (1998) or Erin Brockovich (2000) to know that allowing corporations to use chemicals that have never been proven for safety around humans, is probably a bad thing. But the US is so litigious that this is ok, because lets play lawyers later if our children get sick.... [US corporations only ever say sorry in Dollar $igns....]

    Saw this on the beeb tday. How many years behind other jurisdictions is the US when it comes to consumer safety? Now they decide to ban Trans-Fats. But corporations still have a further 3 years to comply, how convenient. BTW: These same corporations watered down the packaging laws eons ago, so that any product containing under 1% or close to it, didn't even have to register as Trans-Fatty!

    1. Charles 9

      Re: "The need for secrecy tells us all we need to know about its intent."

      "BTW: These same corporations watered down the packaging laws eons ago, so that any product containing under 1% or close to it, didn't even have to register as Trans-Fatty!"

      It's HALF a percent, and even that won't be allowed soon since the very presence of trans fats will be illegal without special exemptions (that will only be allowed on a case-by-case basis).

      1. jabuzz

        Re: "The need for secrecy tells us all we need to know about its intent."

        You are aware that trans fats occur naturally and having zero trans fats in our food is basically impossible if you eat anything with any source of animal fat in, and that includes milk. So unless you are a vegan you will continue to consume trans fats, though the levels of consumption will drop.

        1. Mpeler

          Re: "The need for secrecy tells us all we need to know about its intent."

          Trans-Fats not allowed - does this mean Bruce/Caitlin Jenner can't gain weight?

    2. GrumpyOldBloke

      Re: "The need for secrecy tells us all we need to know about its intent."

      1% - luxury! I used to dream of having trans fat labelling at 1%.

      From the Australian abc news 2015-02-27...

      [Health experts have criticised Australia's decision not to label food products containing trans fats, after health ministers recently accepted the recommendation by Australia's food safety regulator to reject compulsory labelling.]

      From, last updated 2015-06-14

      [In 2007, the federal assistant health minister at that time, Chistopher Pyne...if the industry did not make the necessary changes of their own accord, mandatory labeling and other regulative methods would be introduced ... However, consumption of trans fat in Australia is lower than of other countries and is within the standards set by the World Health Organization.]

      The lower consumption referred to in the reference above was based upon some traditional average diet and is not indicative of consumptions in poor diets, or poor peoples' diets, that are higher in fast or processed foods.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Unwarranteed Optimism

    Clinton's remarks indicate it may struggle to restart if she takes the Oval Office.

    You are forgetting a few things:

    1. She started the negotiations in the first place

    2. It is no different from old Bill NAFTA treaties. Some stuff runs in the family here.

    3. Pre-election posturing post-election policy does not make. A politician true to his/her word? You gotta be kidding there.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Big Brother

      Re: Unwarranteed Optimism

      Correct. But even a politicking and warmongering psychotic tart may be right for all the wrong reasons.

  9. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Big Brother

    TTIP apparently would also force the EU to crack down on European groups participating in the growing movement of boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) against Israel ". I am not sure how support for Israel comes in (oh wait, I DO know) and how that would square with human rights laws but state-mandated forced consumption contrary to your wishes would be the least of the spectacular inventions of the modern age.

    1. organiser

      We are about to abolish human rights law in the UK anyway, replacing it with something without the word "human" in it.

  10. Will Godfrey Silver badge

    It's not dead

    Just hiding., and there is almost certainly a raft of other deals quietly being prepared to take its place. These things are popping up far too quickly one after another.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's not dead

      Well, it seems wheeling and dealing are everywhere. Even China is putting a spin on the TPP argument, lighting a fire under the member nations. Just reading it as I read it; if the TPP doesn't get ratified, there's a fair chance China might open up their own partnership and cajole the Asian nations into it, locking them out of American reach.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    When supping with the US, use a long spoon.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      But don't sup what they're supping obviously

      that is all

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: But don't sup what they're supping obviously

        ITYM "Don't drink their Kool-Aid", no?

  12. DavidEHSmith

    TPP & Global Treaties/'Arrangements’;

    Please Don’t Make the Same Mistakes that ‘Canada’ is Continuing to Make.

    Final (?) Round; TPP Done Deal? Congress Just Needs a Bunch of ‘Incentives’ (Secret Goodies from Taxpayers & ‘Considerations’ from those ‘Willing’ to Pay).

    Should Congressmen & Parliamentarians Have to Sully Their ‘Beliefs’ & Sales Pitches with ‘Sordid’ Facts that Come from Actually Reading & Understanding Global Treaties/’Arrangements’? Should They be able to ‘Sully’ Others, or, Should They Only be able to Give Us the Facts so ‘We’ The People can Draw our Own Conclusions?

    And, if they didn’t Read the Treaties, then Who Developed the Treaties & thus, Who Is our ‘Contact’ Person that We can ask Our Questions?

    2 Republican Senators Admit that They Have read the TPP.

    Zero Canadian Admissions.

    Congress/Parliaments; Deluded, or, Deluding; 'IGNORAMUS et IGNORABIMUS' (I do not know & I will Not Know)?

    Is the secrecy surrounding the TPP & the flurry of Global Treaties/'Arrangements' greater, or, less than the secrecy that surrounded The Canadian ‘Cultural Genocide’; Corporate Canada & The Canadian Establishment Still Resolute, Without Remorse & Misleading other Treaty Signatories? As Pres. G.H. Bush said re; the NAFTA ‘dispute resolution’; ‘Well, you should have known…’

    Corporations Cut Costs & Dramatically Increase flat Profits by Not Suing each Other & by Suing the Little Guy (via ‘your’ Gov’t.) who’s ‘Guilty’ even Prior to Tribunals & All of the Time.

    Teaching the Gordon Gekkos’ of Wall St., Congress, et al, some Humility & Integrity via Quantifying?

    ‘Obama’s’ (Corporate America’s) Self-Exploding SECRECY.

    If Not 'Treason', then, there are very compelling arguments for concluding that the corporations, whether they be, foreign, domestic, &/or, a blend, that do not respect the 'lesser' jurisdictions, ie. individual provinces, territories, states, or, municipalities, are not good corporate citizens of the host countries & thus, can be treated as 'persona non grata'.

    Global Treaties/’Arrangements’ with their Secret ‘Death-Star-Chamber’ Tribunals that The Global (non BRICS) Corporate Economy is in the Process of Secretly Passing will Finally Legitimize its Ability to secretly move money around, ie. ‘launder’ without Fear of Legal/government Regulation; ie. It’s their Own Jurisdiction & they Insist that you Pay for it & Not them.

    Will TPP be Okay if ‘US’ corporations can Prove that they Won't Benefit from Partnerships that Try to Disguise that Corporate USA is Circumventing Other ‘Lesser’ Jurisdictions (State/Municipal)?

    ie. Corporations Need to Provide Proof of Non Circumvention of 'Lesser' Jurisdictions, or else, 'Non Good Corporate Citizens', & thus, 'Persona Non Grata'

    What is Premieres’/Governors’ Rationale for not Defending Taxpayers; Provinces/States Colluding with Feds?

    Corporate America’s Last Chance to Legitimize their Fleecing the Little, harmless Guy (95% - 99% of U.S.) Before Tanking the Global (non BRICS) Economy? Exploitable ‘Vulnerabilities’, Holes & Back Doors to Close.

    Can ‘your’ Federal Reps Willingly Answer ‘your’ Questions below If They haven’t Read the TPP & other Global Treaties Just Ask them ‘For the (Your) Record’ & then Share Their Inability with Others.

    Don’t Forget to Demand Your Money Back for ‘Supplementing’ Fed Rep’s Wages & Future Considerations at Incompetency Tribunals.

    How many ‘Preferred’ Shares are You Selling Your Right to Sue The Global Corporate Economy for?

    Fast Tracking TPP & Global Treaties.

    part of corp. US's attempt to Increase $17+ Trillion Debt 'Earning$' & to Legitimize Hidden Earning$ in Untouchable Foreign Banks.

    Time to REPATRIATE 'Earnings'; NO FOREIGN Accountants, Banks, Services, etc.

    NO Trickle Down from Hiding ‘Earnings’ in Secret Off-Shore Accounts.

    Global Treaties Not about How Much Trade, but, How to & Who to Trade with to 'Undermine' AIIB.

    Shifting Costs to harmless Non Shareholders to Inflate ‘Profits & Dividends’.

    Is it Time to Cool off the 'Stockbrokers' again; Buy Gold?

    TPP & Global Corporate Treaties/’Arrangements more about Tort ‘Abolishment’ than Tort ‘Reform’?

    Making the leaders of TPP, Shareholders, et al, 'Persona non Grata'; Shareholders' Meetings I.D. Toxic Neighbors, In-laws, et al?

    Financially Ruinous PUNISHMENT of the harmless, (the little guy) Canadians by Corporate Canada’s (PM Harper’s) Deliberately Depriving Treaty Partners of Info.

    But, If Not PUTIN; 'The WHITE KNIGHT', then Who Do YOU Want to Bankroll the Saving of the harmless NON shareholders of the World from Fast Tracking TPP's, CETA's (TTIP) Secret 'Death-Star-Chamber' Tribunal Penalties?

    Will Iran, China, the Muslim World, et al, Support Putin in Suits?

    How about Warren Buffett, &/or, the 'coveted' Hong Kong investor, et al?


    FULL Articles, see, Google; David E.H. Smith


    Please consider sharing the enclosed information & questions with 10 friends who will share it with 10 others...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Too many capitals, Mr Mozart

      That is all.

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