back to article Screw you, Apple! We're still making phones no one wants – Samsung

Sales of Samsung's smartphones have slipped of late in comparison to the iPhone, but the chaebol is trying to steal some of the thunder from Apple's WWDC announcements by announcing a new device of its own. The new handset, the Samsung Galaxy S6 Active, isn't much in the way of an evolution. Basically it's a S6 that's been …

  1. bertie bassett

    Battery & Micro-SD?

    the s4 active had a removable battery and a micro-SD slot

    what about this one?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Battery & Micro-SD?

      That wasn't an attempt at an informative article. It was pseudo-statistical propaganda articloid. All hail "Capitalism".

      Nothing to see here. Move along please.

    2. Kunari

      Re: Battery & Micro-SD?

      I'd imagine like the base S6, the Micro-SD and removable battery is not a feature of the S6 Active. Seems the S5 will be my last Samsung.

      1. Youngone Silver badge

        Re: Battery & Micro-SD?

        I currently use a Samsung Galaxy S4 as my personal phone, and I'm quite happy with it.

        When the battery begins to fail, I'll whip it out and replace it with a new one for approximately $20, so I can see me using this phone for a fair while longer.

        The only real annoyance is that Samsung don't seem to want to update the firmware beyond Android 4.4.2 (at least where I live), so at some stage I'll probably have to go to the effort of rooting it and installing Cyanogen Mod or similar.

        I'm pretty sure these are some of the reasons that Samsung's sales are slipping.

        1. John Robson Silver badge

          Re: Battery & Micro-SD?

          My Desire S is still on 2 something.

          Still, I get a week of battery life out of it...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Battery & Micro-SD?

      the s4 active had a removable battery and a micro-SD slot

      what about this one?

      I suspect that caused some conflict with its waterproofing (or is it water resisting? I always get those mixed up with watches).

      Having said that, I can't see myself spend 30 minutes in a pool that's only 1.5 meters deep, less so to make a phone call :)

      1. Hans 1

        Re: Battery & Micro-SD?

        Note that the phone should be no deeper than 1.5 meters, in your pocket ... which means you can swim or just bathe in a ordinary swimming pool... you don't mean you have a divers outfit that you use to spend 30 minutes under water in your pool, right ? Thinking of "The Graduate" ...

        1. tony
          Happy

          Re: Battery & Micro-SD?

          "Note that the phone should be no deeper than 1.5 meters, in your pocket"

          Hopefully will see the rebirth of pushing people into a pool type comedy.

    4. Wade Burchette Silver badge

      Re: Battery & Micro-SD?

      I still cannot help buy wonder why the S6 took away those things. If I wanted a device more like an iPhone, I would buy an iPhone.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The only phone that would make me consider going to Samsung would be an uncluttered Note 6 with the side screen thingy!

    Quite tempted by the Huawei P8Max..

    1. mi1400

      Any eagle eyed reader here!?!... see the graph... every Q4 this happens and 2011 Q4 they collided and Samsung sprung back to lead... 2012 Q4 they again graph lines came on collision course ... hell man 2013 Q4 this again seems to be happening or atleast closest for whole 2013.... now Q4 the graph line has collided to each other exactly like 2011 Q4 ... i hope and pray Samsung rise again from the ashes and free us from the few leftover victorian monopolies... but huh apple will say we still make more money ... lame... of-course when apple is charging upto $700 more/premium on each laptop... i remember an article in recent past. Way to go sammy!!!

  3. Julian 3
    FAIL

    No Removable battery and no Micro SD card slot

    There is no removable battery and no Micro SD card slot. The only thing it has going for it is a larger battery.

    1. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: No Removable battery and no Micro SD card slot

      The battery on an iPhone is very simple to replace, but this Samsung probably has gaskets to keep out the dust and liquid, which will need replacing every time the case is opened and be tricky to get right.

      But the non-replaceable battery and no SD slot are going to be necessary to make a sealed robust housing.

      And having a shock-proof phone is a great start to makers actually supplying features that are useful.

      Phones shouldn't shatter after one drop from ear height.

      Next can we have better fringe signal strength, longer life batteries and good sunlight readable screens please? You know - stuff that gives genuine benefit.

      But I expect we will just get offered more screen pixels that we can't actually see, and more useless processor clock cycles per second so that a nano-second can be saved on a faecebook status update.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: No Removable battery and no Micro SD card slot

        The S5 had a replaceable battery and SD card slot despite being water resistant (1m up to 30 minutes instead of 1.5m)

      2. dajames Silver badge

        Re: No Removable battery and no Micro SD card slot

        ... the non-replaceable battery and no SD slot are going to be necessary to make a sealed robust housing.

        You might think so ... but Samsung managed to put an SD card slot and a removable battery into the standard S5 and the ruggedized S5 Activ, both of which have almost the same IP rating.

        S5 on GSM Arena

        S5 Activ on GSM Arena

        Samsung claim that the S6 Activ is IP68 rather than IP67, but an IP68 rating is supposed to mean that a device is proof against "continuous immersion" in water to a depth defined by the manufactuerer but "generally up to 3m".

        See Wikipedia

        Samsung's claim that the S6 Activ is proof against immersion for up to 30 minutes at a depth of 1.5m is a little better than the minimum for IP67 but it is NOT IP68.

  4. ecofeco Silver badge

    Sales slipping

    The only reason I think of causing the drop in sales, is price.

    Good god Samsungs are fucking expensive!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Sales slipping

      I guess since Apple was able to increase their ASP due to the higher priced 6 Pluses in the mix, Samsung felt they could do the same. Unfortunately in the Android world there are many other vendors, most of of whom are cutting prices not raising them hence their declining sales.

      Though it is quite possible that selling fewer S6s than they did S5s but for a higher average price ends up as more profitable for them. Hence rather than putting all the features like the "edge" and water resistance into the plain S6, they've segmented the models and charge people who want those features more money like Apple did for people who want the larger screen / larger battery 6 Plus.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Sales slipping

      Cherry pick reporting.

      Notice this is just China. Wondering why it's not as global graph? Because its a different story, one where iPhone has a minuscule 13% of the market, android is everything else, and Samsung are still the biggest individual phone seller..

      1. gnasher729 Silver badge

        Re: Sales slipping

        1. You might look at some newer numbers. iPhone unit market share in the smartphone market has been growing in the last year. iPhone unit market share in the phone market has been growing every year since 2007, and the drop in smartphone market share was due to people replacing cheap non-smart phones with cheap smart-phones. Somehow that never gets mentioned.

        2. The numbers are units. One $600 iPhone counts as one phone, ten $60 Android landfill phones count as ten phones. Apple actually has more than half the worldwide revenue. Somehow that never gets mentioned.

        3. What really counts is profits, and it seems that Apple is taking 90% of phone sales profits world wide. Ouch. Somehow that never gets mentioned.

        Meanwhile, be happy with the numbers that you find, and enjoy them.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Sales slipping

        it says under the graph that the numbers are a percentage of global shipments. The link above gives China.. You may owe the writer an apology.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Samsung Crapware

    When Samsung stops putting crapware on their phones, I will think of going back to their phones. Until then Apple rules.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Samsung Crapware

      As an iPhone user and Apple shareholder I'm not complaining about your choice, but why do you feel your only choices are Samsung or Apple? There's a whole bunch of Android vendors out there, if you would leave Apple for a crap-free Samsung phone, why not buy a crap-free Android phone from someone else?

      1. dogged

        Re: Samsung Crapware

        Or a crap free Blackberry. Or something running Sailfish. Or a Windows phone. Those (from experience) do come with some crapware but it's all removable exactly the same way any other app is removable.

      2. Lallabalalla
        Gimp

        Re: Samsung Crapware

        Because even crap-free, they are still crap?

        1. dogged

          Re: Samsung Crapware

          I think you'd have to define how they're crap before you can state it as fact.

          1. Lallabalalla

            Re: Samsung Crapware

            Well, a question is not a statement of fact. For further clarification of this point, see this: http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-06-07

            As far as the actual post: see title of article. If they weren't crap everyone would want one. Simple enough equation even for you?

            1. dogged

              Re: Samsung Crapware

              > If they weren't crap everyone would want one.

              Okay then. Macs are crap, linux is crap, McDonald's is the best restaurant in the world.

              Market share is seldom an indication of quality.

      3. launcap
        Happy

        Re: Samsung Crapware

        > why not buy a crap-free Android phone from someone else?

        Like my new OnePlus One?

        Nice it is.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm no big Apple fan but it's what many of my customers want. I had a Samsung S5 recently with a fault, contacted Samsung via their support section of their website and after 3 days I've heard nothing back. I called them too and each time for the standard higher than normal calls at the moment BS and the calls then cut off.

    I've said this time and time again, if you want to charge Apple prices you better make sure you have the same customer service and support. People often talk about the "Apple tax" and they may make a lot of money but they also have a network of shops you can visit when you have a problem.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. cs94njw

        Ahem... that might have been true... until recently when Apple kept denying there was a problem with something.... screen issues? Can't remember now.

        1. gnasher729 Silver badge

          So Apple isn't doing well because you can't remember. Come back when you remember.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's not Apple

    It's not Apple who is eating up Samsung's pie, it's the hordes of cheap android manufacturers who have flooded the market. Samsung needs to break its product line into two parts. One that competes with the cheapos and other a premium brand that bases it's work on some real thinking and not silly experiments into what the premium segment truely values.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's not Apple

      " Samsung needs to break its product line into two parts."

      I don't think they do. The top of the market is fought on brand and service, like 'em or not Apple have both of those stitched up, and Samsung struggle on both. Meanwhile Samsung are being squeezed from the bottom by feature growth on cheaper phones. So the cheaper Nexus and Moto devices, new Chinese OEMs, and other Android phones, indeed, even Nokia's cheap WIndows phones. Screen growth and pixel count have maxed out as differentiators, there's no killer apps, not much OS difference, slow and inadequate progress on battery life, so why would anyone fork out £500 for a Galaxy S6? If £500 is nothing to you, then fine. Or fine for those who can't do maths on contract offers. But as a business proposition there's insufficient reasons to pay £500 for an S6, when a Moto G is less than £150, and a 5 inch screened LG G3 S is only £200.

      A big part of the problem is that Samsung think that they should be able to flog the S6 for £500-600, when it cost only £200 to make. 63% gross margin might be what Samsung want, but based on the product, the warranty and service support, and the competition the market won't buy it in the volume Samsung want to sell. This trend is a continuing one, so Samsung need to rethink their market position and their proposition, unless they want to join LG, Sony and others in the "Not Making Money From Phones" club.

      1. Lallabalalla

        Re: It's not Apple

        Samsung don't "struggle" on service. They *don't bother* on service. Same with their TV sets.

  8. RonWheeler

    Overpriced

    Went from S3 to Nexus 5. Cyanogenmod on both so Android version not a factor. Samsungs too pricey to stick with the habit even though the hardware was better (till they dumped removable battery and microSD).

  9. Anonymous South African Coward Silver badge

    Not going to go Samsung anymore.

    Will rather go to LG, HTC, Sony or some other brand. Just not Apple.

  10. Just Enough

    no -one wants?

    That's a very interesting definition of "no-one" getting used there. Millions and millions of no-ones.

  11. Trollslayer

    Both shrinking

    That chart shows both losing market share over time, together they now have 40% of the market and it is the smaller players taking more of the market.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So soon Samsung's advertising will be accurate again

    You know, all those adverts in which the industry's number one makes fun of those buying a less popular brand for being sheep.

  13. MacGyver

    I've been wanting a new Samsung

    I just can't stomach their attitude on aftermarket OSes and rooting.

    I'm all for my warranty becoming void, and even certain "trusted" apps uninstalling, but to brick or prevent the original OS that came on my phone from running ever again is a deal breaker. (Knox fuse)

    I'd settle for even a "Click here to send an SU unlock code email that will forever void your warranty", and then entering said code giving me a factory installed SU app. All of this dependent on whether or not I have paid for my phone outright or if I am just leasing it of course.

    They actively attempt to stop me from using my property the way I want, and if I wanted to be treated like that I'd have just bought an Apple device in the first place.

  14. Sir Sham Cad

    Oh good! Hardware Android buttons are back

    Said nobody ever.

    That choice cannot have been made for ruggedness and just makes the front of the device look cheap and nasty.

    1. David Nash

      Re: Oh good! Hardware Android buttons are back

      I like hardware home buttons. In fact so do millions of Apple users.

      My first Android was an HTC Hero which had a little trackball - great for certain games.

  15. nilfs2
    Devil

    I still have my S3 mini

    running Android 5.1, as long as I'm able to upgrade it to a non obsolete release, I'll stick to this phone, why on earth would I want 8 cores and 3GB of RAM on a phone? Is not like I'm going to run virtual machines on it.

  16. Lallabalalla

    Samsung Vs Apple

    It's pretty clear from the relative number of thumbs up/thumbs down votes whenever somebody posts a direct comparison between Samsung or Android and Apple or iOS that the ratio of apple owners is around 2:7 or 22%.

    Given that the remaining 78% won't all have a Samsung but will have an Android of some description has to tell you something - so does Samsung have + or - 22% of the market?

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