back to article SUPERVOLCANIC MAGMA reservoir BUBBLING under Yellowstone Park

Geoboffins have claimed that a massive lake of magma found under the Yellowstone National Park's supervolcano could fill the Grand Canyon 11 times over. The study, published in Science this week, follows from the University of Utah's seismologists discovering and surveying a deeper reservoir of partly-molten rock which lies 12 …

  1. This post has been deleted by its author

  2. RyokuMas
    Joke

    Uh oh....

    I know how this goes - the super-eruption happens just after they've figured out how much magma is down there...

    ... the BBC say so!

    1. Mark 85

      Re: Uh oh....

      The general expected reaction that bit of news should be something akin to Kermit:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_w4oSCJIQk

      1. ian 22

        Re: Uh oh....

        Gaia wants to kills us all!

  3. elDog

    But how many Titanics would it fill?

    I seriously was expecting the amount of magna to be calculated in something more graspable than the 11.4 times the volume of the Grand Canyon. Elephants maybe, or magnums of champagne.

    No, really. If you were to spread this magna out across the USofA, how many millimeters thick would it be? I hope it would make it to DC!

    1. gloucester

      Re: But how many Titanics would it fill?

      If my calculations are correct that would be the entirety of the USA under about sixteen feet nine inches, so c. 5100mm. Not that it would be so evenly spread of course.

      1. Michael Thibault
        Holmes

        Re: But how many Titanics would it fill?

        >Not that it would be so evenly spread of course.

        The skiing in YNP will be fantastic! Eventually. Cliff-diving, too, probably.

        1. Darryl

          Re: But how many Titanics would it fill?

          Pardon me, Official Reg units only please.

          How many Olympic Swimming Pools?

          1. Fungus Bob
            Holmes

            Re: How many Olympic Swimming Pools?

            A Shitload.

            1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              Re: How many Olympic Swimming Pools?

              "A Shitload."

              Metric or imperial?

              1. Tom 13
                Coat

                Re: Metric or imperial?

                I thought the proper interrogative to that one was:

                African or European?

                But I suppose that might be a bit hard to swallow.

            2. DiViDeD

              Re: How many Olympic Swimming Pools?

              Would that be an Imperial shitload, a metric shitload, or that strangest of beasts the American Standard shitload?

              1. Swarthy
                Holmes

                Re: How many Olympic Swimming Pools?

                The American Standard shitload is only about 1.6 gallons (6 liters)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Covering the US

        Magma can't flow for hundreds of miles. If a supervolcano blows, it is explosive like Krakatoa was. It would release many cubic miles of ash, so more of it would settle near the volcano, less the further east (following the jet stream etc.) I recall suggestions of maybe a foot of ash here in the midwest, maybe that will be upgraded if the reservoir is bigger. Kind of a downer for agriculture, I would imagine.

        The good news is that the rest of the world would share in the bounty, as enough ash to at least cover your car in a nice layer would settle in Europe, and block a good portion of sunlight for years worldwide. Ice fairs like in the 1600s could return to the Thames - probably year round.

        1. mIRCat
          Coat

          Re: Covering the US

          "Ice fairs like in the 1600s could return to the Thames - probably year round." - DougS

          Do you want to get wolves? Because that's how we get wolves.

        2. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: Covering the US

          "Magma can't flow for hundreds of miles"

          The Deccan and Siberian traps would indicate otherwise.

          There is only one other supervolcano "we" on earth should be worried about - and it goes off a good deal more regularly than Yellowstone does (although, as with Yellowstone, most of the eruptions are small, not catastrophic), being about due for its bi-millenial pop.

        3. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: Covering the US

          "Ice fairs like in the 1600s could return to the Thames - probably year round."

          If the Gulf Stream keeps slowing down we'll see those soon enough anyway.

        4. Martin Budden Silver badge

          Re: Covering the US

          "The good news is that the rest of the world would share in the bounty"

          Fortunately for those of us in the southern hemisphere the bounty won't be shared equally ;-)

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: But how many Titanics would it fill?

        "If my calculations are correct that would be the entirety of the USA under about sixteen feet nine inches, so c. 5100mm. Not that it would be so evenly spread of course."

        Sounds like enough to solve the America problem. Is there anyway we can speed it up?

        1. D@v3
          Mushroom

          Re: anyway to speed it up?

          maybe chuck a couple of tons of TNT in it?

    2. chivo243 Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: But how many Titanics would it fill?

      I would think it would make it as far as the Mississippi River. If the flow makes it past that point, it still has to pass Lake Michigan. Unless we build a lava canal for it to flow directly to Washington, leaving most of the other space mostly unscathed.

      When dealing with really huge numbers can't they come up with something like cubic kilometers or something cool sounding? 11.x Grand Canyons is a bit abstract? No?

      1. GBE

        Re: But how many Titanics would it fill?

        "11.x Grand Canyons is a bit abstract? No?"

        I guess that depends on whether you've been to the Grand Canyon.

        Comparing X to something you've actually stood next to is about as concrete as it gets.

        1. Robert Helpmann??
          Childcatcher

          Re: But how many Titanics would it fill?

          Comparing X to something you've actually stood next to is about as concrete as it gets.

          Well said! Especially given that it was defined as having a volume of 1,000 cubic miles which should have been good enough for those that were looking for something a little more abstract1.

          1 Fine! It comes to about 18,653,228,928.7794 Olympic-sized swimming pools.

        2. chivo243 Silver badge

          Re: But how many Titanics would it fill?

          I have flown over it... by my calculations a million and six of the planes I was flying in might fill it.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Holmes

        Re: But how many Titanics would it fill?

        @chivo - "11.x Grand Canyons is a bit abstract? No?"

        Consider that you could easily stack every person who has ever lived on earth in the grand canyon with lots of room to spare.

        1. elDog

          Re: But how many Titanics would it fill?

          And then to cover those people with a nice layer of chocolate fudge (or in this case lava). Yummy lava-crispies!

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: But how many Titanics would it fill?

        "When dealing with really huge numbers can't they come up with something like cubic kilometers or something cool sounding?"

        The US does have an official measurement for large volumes like this, but since pretty much only the Army Corp of Engeners and water resource boards use it for tracking how much water is in lakes, it is not surprising the researchers did not include it.

        It is called an Acre-Foot, which is the volume of one acre filled to a depth of one foot of substance.

        So it is 43,560 cubic feet or 1,233 meters squared; for the purists, Acre-Foot = Chain x Furlong x Foot.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: But how many Titanics would it fill?

          "It is called an Acre-Foot"

          That sounds almost as quaint as Foot-Pound ;-)

    3. IvyKing

      Re: But how many Titanics would it fill?

      As GBE wrote, the volume of the Grand Canyon is certainly abstract to anyone who has seen it in person. Near the Grand Canyon Village, the south rim is close to a mile higher than the Colorado River at the bottom of the canyon. Also keep in mind that there are no roads crossing from the south rim to north rim between Hoover Dam and maybe 50 miles upstream of the Grand Canyon Village.

  4. Ian Michael Gumby
    Boffin

    Geothermal energy?

    I have to ask.. with such a large cap of potential thermal energy, why not try and tap it for electrical power generation?

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Geothermal energy?

      Isn't there a risk that could be a little like sticking a pin into a balloon?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Geothermal energy?

        "Isn't there a risk that could be a little like sticking a pin into a balloon?"

        Doesn't seem to have resulted in the destruction of Iceland. However, every country has its Nimbys, and I'd guess that the tree huggers would object to the remote risk of losing Yellowstone's geysers, the national park authority would object under its "object to everything" mandate. Throw in the US' predilection for pork barrel politics, and the chances of anything happening are next to nil.

        There's also the fly in the ointment that 12 miles below the surface might be relatively shallow, but it is sufficiently deep that it doesn't follow that you could easily get high volume power extraction to drive steam turbines.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Geothermal energy?

          The area of Volcanic Activity is several times the size of Yellowstone NP.

          To the East of the NP is the town of Cody. There is lots of fracking going on in the area. A few rigs drilling deeper would probably go unnoticed.

        2. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: Geothermal energy?

          " I'd guess that the tree huggers would object to the remote risk of losing Yellowstone's geysers, "

          That's a big risk, but the other risk is that a new field will open up elsewhere and not where it may be expected:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craters_of_the_Moon_%28geothermal_site%29

          "A most important change in the region has been the building of the Wairakei Power Station (150 MW) in the 1950s, about 2 km. north of the field. This reduced the pressure in the hot water systems below the earth surface. Since then much of the geothermal activity in the region has dramatically changed, as did the geothermal activity at Craters of the Moon. The geysers at Wairakei Geyser Valley totally disappeared, but the heat output at Craters of the Moon increased. A lot of hydrothermal eruptions occurred, which formed the craters."

      2. Extra spicey vindaloo

        Re: Geothermal energy?

        They do geothermal energy at Clear lake in CA.

        The number of small earthquakes there, http://earthquaketrack.com/us-ca-clearlake/recent , is quite surprising. Doing it in Yellowstone, even if it wasn't a national park, would be a little worrying.

        1. elDog

          Re: Geothermal energy?

          And doesn't geothermal require a bit of that precious substance, H2O. That stuff has been in short supply recently, even/especially in the Rockies. I believe much of it is siphoned off to Calif agriculture and other important needs but the replenishment hasn't recently been raining down.

          Interesting that the Clear Lake area also uses sewage water to power its geothermal plant. Unless I'm mistaken, there isn't much sewage available in the Yellowstone area. Perhaps we could truck it in from DC.

          1. Frumious Bandersnatch

            Re: Geothermal energy?

            Unless I'm mistaken, there isn't much sewage available in the Yellowstone area

            Have you forgotten how to finish the bears + woods = ? equation?

          2. Tom 13

            Re: Calif agriculture and other important needs

            Well, if the delta smelt and a Coca-Cola water bottling facility with an expired license count as "agriculture and other important needs" yes.

            As for trucking in sewage, might I suggest that both Hollywood and San Fran are closer than DC?

        2. Heathroi

          Re: Geothermal energy?

          The US idea of a national park was a generally useless but pretty and natural piece of property far away from the cities where one could meet with like minded people and not be disturbed by dreadful people of the middle class (let alone the working classes) that could be maintained at the nations expense

          if a use could be found for it, I'm sure it could be deparkified in short order.

    2. Little Mouse

      Re: Geothermal energy?

      This magma lake is clearly a NATURAL, God-given reservoir of sustainable (hah!) energy. Not like all that nasty, dirty, oil and coal.

      Start drilling, I say. What could possibly go wrong?

    3. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: Geothermal energy?

      "with such a large cap of potential thermal energy, why not try and tap it for electrical power generation?"

      Geothermal energy extraction has "side effects" - not least of which is rampant water pollution.

      There's no danger of triggering an eruption, but there are significant problems with extraction efficiency (rock is a bloody awful conductor of heat) which means places like Iceland do well (there's always rock upwelling there), but other geothermal systems (eg, New Zealand) don't work nearly as well over prolonged periods.

    4. Tom 13

      Re: Geothermal energy?

      What? And risk ruining that pristine wildlife habitat?

      Heretic! Burn him! Sacrifice him to the Volcano Gods!

  5. Cubical Drone

    I can't quite get my head around that measurement.

    Can someone please translate Grand Canyons into the more acceptable Bulgarian Funbag unit.

    1. Adam 1

      Re: I can't quite get my head around that measurement.

      I believe the correct unit of measure would be Olympic swimming pools.

      1. Little Mouse

        The Grand Canyon?

        Is that a bit like Cheddar Gorge?

  6. Montague Wanktrollop

    But....

    will it blend?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: But....

      Not only will it blend, but it will cook it afterwards.

  7. ma1010
    Mushroom

    Time to develop a good exit strategy

    "Estimations whether such an eruption would be an extinction event are difficult to make before such an eruption occurred."

    SO, if anyone is left alive in the rubble afterwards, we'll know it wasn't QUITE an extinction event, and if it was, then nobody will be around to discuss it afterwards.

    Folks, we NEED to develop spaceflight and space habitats. Planets are just too dangerous to live on.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Time to develop a good exit strategy

      > "Planets are just too dangerous to live on."

      Okay, imagine we colonize the entire solar system with habitats, and then we get into one of those pesky civil war things. They do happen. I guarantee there won't be much life among the ruins afterwards. At least on a planet the life support system would remain partially functional under all but the most extreme circumstances.

      1. Neil Barnes Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: Time to develop a good exit strategy

        Right up to until you start moving asteroids around...

        Trailing Trojans for me, or Saturn's rings, please! I'm going to start lobbing icebergs at Mars.

        1. BoldMan

          Re: Time to develop a good exit strategy

          It worked for the Brennan-monster!

        2. sopcannon

          Re: Time to develop a good exit strategy

          Lettuce know how that goes.

      2. DropBear
        Headmaster

        Re: Time to develop a good exit strategy

        "one of those pesky civil war things"

        I reckon an interplanetary war would be as far from the meaning of the word "civil war" as one possibly can get though...

    2. elDog

      Re: Time to develop a good exit strategy

      Might be time to start believing in the Rapture. Or failing that, how about a bunch of virgins waiting for you.

      1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

        Re: Time to develop a good exit strategy

        I've long since stopped believing (hoping?) that any virgins are waiting for me. Anywhere.

        1. elDog

          Re: Time to develop a good exit strategy

          Would you accept a few "lightly used" ones?

          To get back on a PC track, how about a warm welcome from all your long lost and decayed ancestors?

          I've got to get out of this thread now!

      2. MrDamage Silver badge

        Re: Time to develop a good exit strategy

        "..how about a bunch of virgins waiting for you."

        You mean like this?

    3. Frumious Bandersnatch

      Re: Time to develop a good exit strategy

      Folks, we NEED to develop spaceflight and space habitats. Planets are just too dangerous to live on.

      and

      Or failing that, how about a bunch of virgins waiting for you.

      Me, I'm leaning towards mine-shafts right now...

      But ah with the proper breeding techniques and a ratio of say, ten females to each male, I would guess that they could then work their way back to the present gross national product within say, twenty years."

      1. Tom 13
        Paris Hilton

        Re: Me, I'm leaning towards mine-shafts right now...

        He-he!

        He said "shaft" and he said it soon after "virgins"!

        [where's the Beavis and Butthead icon? Meh, I'll use Paris instead.]

  8. Dan Paul

    A Yellowstone eruption would definitely

    be a world extinction event. If that or any of the other super volcanoes erupted just the ash clouds alone would cover the northern hemisphere in a week or two. It wouldn't be a month before they would cover the Earth and block out all the light. I don't expect thats conducive to horticulture.

    I think thats enough reason to "let sleeping dogs lie" and forget trying to drill a geothermal well into the magma chamber area.

    If nothing else, for purely selfish reasons as I and several hundred million people are living downwind of it.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Earth is made of hot stuff under the ground shocker

    Even as a child, we were taught that the Earth had a thin crust (Mmmm Pizza...) but beneath the surface was a hot molten core. Drill far enough down, and it's hot enough to melt rocks.

    Where's the news story here - there's a bit of a crack in the Earth and it could leak through - whoop-de-do- break out the news alerts - we're explaining volcanoes.

  10. FunctionalDrug addled Lunatic

    Think of the bears!

    Even if it does go pop and some people do initially survive, it may well still prove to be an extinction event for Yogi and Boo Boo.

  11. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
    Mushroom

    It's the end of the world as we know it...

    I am continually surprised we have never had reports of droves of 'we live only to kill' terrorists, armed with jack-hammers and blasting equipment, heading to Yellowstone or La Palma with the intent of triggering far greater devastation than a mere nuke could bring.

    1. Duncan Macdonald

      Re: It's the end of the world as we know it...

      However it would take a megaton range nuke - a few tens of tons of TNT would not be large enough to have any effect on either Yellowstone or La Palma.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It's the end of the world as we know it...

        Thanks for reminding me of La Palma, well worded wikipedia entry linked from that (for Teneguia)

        Quote

        " It has also been predicted that the volcano will show some more activity and is a possibility of a land slide causing some of the island to fall off. This will cause a tsunami. It's most likely going to destroy a lot of south England and the east coast of America. The governments of both countries are quite aware. New York have already carried out evacuation plans."

        LOLs.

  12. Oninoshiko
  13. Howard Hanek

    Denial

    But don't worry about this. The really important issue is excess man made carbon and CO2 emissions and we must make every effort to reduce them by 100%......or something......because the science is settled......or something....something...bad is going to happen to......something.

  14. Alistair
    Windows

    wait --- did he say C02 release?

    Just wait for the agw debate crowd to get hold of that tidbit.

    Sorry folks it is most definitely NOT like sticking a balloon with a pin. Latex and rock have substantially different functional responses to stretching events.

    As for fluids to run the geothermal bits on, I'd suggest that the vendors of nutribullet and waring get together and come up with a 'congrenatorator' device -- we might, after cleaning out three or four governments, have enough liquefied polititician to set up at least one thermal conduit.

    1. Mark 85

      Re: wait --- did he say C02 release?

      Oh my <$DEITY>!!!! Global warming will run rampant if that balloon... err... "rock pocket" breaks. We must do something... Quick! We need to find something to blame!!!!

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: wait --- did he say C02 release?

        "Quick! We need to find something to blame!!!!"

        And something must be done! Need money. MORE TAXES!!

  15. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Most disappointed

    30 comments in and no link to a clip from 2012...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzk1uqxpfoY

    1. Robin 12

      Re: Most disappointed

      This is one of the best scenes in the movie and I love it. Of course, there are so many physical and technical errors but I watch movies for the laughs.

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: Most disappointed

        [2012]

        The funny thing is that all the events in the film are based on (now disproven) theories such as massive continental plate shift. It would make more sense set as a 19th century block-buster than a 21st century one.

  16. Stevie

    Bah!

    Scientists believe the results of such an event would only be clear after the dust had settled

    By which time there's no-one left to notice.

    Stupid "scientists".

    1. Frumious Bandersnatch

      Re: Bah!

      By which time there's no-one left to notice.

      Stupid "scientists".

      Yeah, let's go and burn down the observatory so this kind of thing never happens again.

  17. Robin 12

    Not just Yellowstone.

    Some history of Yellowstone.

    Yellowstone history

    The above is interesting because it shows that the lava cavern is moving in relation to the crust which is moving due to continental drift.

    But if you don't live in the US, then there is always your that may be closer to you volcano.

    Super Volcanoes around the world.

    I remember Mount St. Helens. It was an interesting time. Having all this ash falling from the sky that you didn't brush off of your nice car because it would strip the paint. Yellowstone would be so much worse.

    Of course there is a volcano in the Atlantic that may not be large but if it erupts, the amount of soil being shifted would cause massive tsunamis.

    Canary Island Volcano

    Have a good weekend.

    1. Gene Cash Silver badge

      Re: Not just Yellowstone.

      How come the Hawaiian island chain isn't on that list? It's pretty damn big and still currently erupting and threatening houses...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not just Yellowstone.

        Hawaii isn't a Supervolcano, just a regular one. No chance it will go boom Krakatoa style, it'll just keep doing what it has been doing for thousands of years and adding more valuable real estate in a desirable zip code.

      2. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: Not just Yellowstone.

        "How come the Hawaiian island chain isn't on that list?"

        1: Most of them are dead remainders of the hotspot they moved over (only one island is erupting, there's another one building up undersea a few miles away)

        2: The type of lava produced there is benign midoceanic basalts, producing shield volcanoes (you need dissolved water and carbonates from subducting oceanic plates to get explosive eruptions)

        3: The hotspot is pretty small.

        4: Threatening houses is a long way from threatening the globe

        5: There's a far greater danger posed to hawaiian housing from the island slumping (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilina_Slump) and similar dangers apply at the Canaries (Cumbre Vieja partially slumped and then stopped when it erupted in 1949 - another eruption could finish the job and even the best-case scanariao would be a 2-3 metre wave hitting the USA east coast.)

    2. elDog

      Re: Not just Yellowstone.

      You too. Have a good weekend. And thanks for the reminders that there are plenty of other spots around the globe that would make a nuclear missile tournament look like a game of tiddlywinks.

      Earthlings, you better enjoy it while you can because SHE is going to do a purge someday soon.

  18. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Mushroom

    But

    What about us cockroaches?

    Will we be safe from the ash fallout? or do we have to stowaway on some human spaceship getting out of dodge?

  19. iranu
    Megaphone

    Rik Mayall's Ghost

    Yellowstone? Pah, I've got a bigger eruption in my pants!

  20. StimuliC

    Well They always say...

    everything is bigger in the USA. Even their volcanoes!

  21. Conundrum1885

    Best case scenario

    The current scenario is that we will probably have hit "The Singularity" in 2033 well before Yellowstone becomes a threat again, by which time force fields arranged carefully should allow the ash and gases to be re-used as building material for a silicon carbide nanotube based Beanstalk using nanites and the abundant geothermal energy in the plume(s).

    The SOx could be a pain though, perhaps recycle that into FeS and use it as building material?

    "Fool's gold" is remarkably stable stuff long term and if nanoassembled into an aerogel-like structure with said nanites would be ideal for any number of applications.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    under yellowstone park

    since the world is a sphere: isn't most of the world under anywhere in the world?

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