Kia Soul EV: Nifty Korean 'leccy hatchback has heart and Seoul

I didn’t have high hopes for the Kia Soul EV. I assumed that it was a bit of a lash up; a regular Soul with the engine and gearbox ripped out and a battery pack and electric motor rudely bolted onto it. Wrong. kia_in_puddle The Kia Soul. Designed in California. Made in Korea, Only 100 coming to UK In many ways it is quite …

[Electron Shepherd]

Energy Density maths

Kia reckons that the Soul’s battery energy density of 200Wh/kg is a class best. I can neither confirm nor refute that for the simple reason that I’m not sure how Kia arrived at the figure.

Surely they determined the total energy storage capacity of the battery, weighed said battery, and then divided one by the other?

As an aside, I think it's a real shame that these vehicles need (or are seen to need) "noise makers". These cars reduce chemical pollution at point of use - it would be nice if they could reduce noise pollution at point of use too. Don't they teach children to look both ways before crossing the road these days?

[Al Taylor]

Re: Energy Density maths

Probably, but using the given weight for the battery pack the arithmetic doesn't work out. I'm guessing the calculation is based on the battery weight minus the control hardware but since I couldn't lay hands on that info for the Soul or the Leaf or the Zoe I can't make any comment as to the accuracy of the statement.

[Steve Knox]

Re: Energy Density maths

27kWh / 275 kg = 98Wh/kg

To get 27kWh at 200Wh/kg, the battery cells would need to weigh 135kg, meaning that the remaining 140kg is taken up in packaging, control hardware, etc.

Seems rather inefficient, less than half of the weight of a battery being battery.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: As an aside

When all vehicles are nearly as silent as EV's then I'd agree. At the moment they are very much a rarity in traffic and they can be spookily quiet compared to the typical ambient traffic noise.

As humans, we integrate information constantly from our senses and in familliar environments like traffic sound provides a big part of the mental picture.

I nearly came a cropper on a bicycle manouevering in front of a prius or somesuch that was just pulling out to pass me, the shock that a vehicle was there at all was a real eye-opener.

I don't think it's unreasonable to have a requirement to make some kind of noise whilst such vehicles are a rarity.

TBH the real noise pollution from vehicles is from speed/tyre rumble anyway.

[durandal]

Re: As an aside

People seem to have trouble seeing emergency vehicles with every bit of warning kit lit up. Lack of engine noise would be the least of the problem for a lot of the motoring public!

[Sarah Balfour]

Re: As an aside

I don't think it's SEEING, so much as HEARING; I'm a non-driver but, even as a pedestrian or a cyclist, it's not always easy to judge from which direction the emergency vehicle is approaching, and you're more likely to hear it before you see it. There needs to be some method by which the direction of the siren could be more precisely located. I know from being a passenger (usually with my father driving and, as I may have mentioned before, he's not the most patient of drivers) the sound seems to round the vehicle and you hear it equally both sides. This isn't, of course, an issue on single carriageways but, if you're in the centre lane on the motorway… it doesn't help that Daddy Dearest is becoming increasingly mutton (not that the stubborn old bugger would ever admit it).

If the siren could be concentrated so that the driver only hears it from the direction in which the vehicle is approaching that could, potentially, eliminate the issue - or at least greatly reduce it.

Does any of that make sense…? Today's not been a good'un, so I've been fundie-baiting on Twitter (a sport which is becoming increasingly unsatisfying) and, when you're dealing with that level of fuckwittery and fucktardery, it tends to rapidly destroy the braincells, and the imp that runs my cranial CPU has now taken strike action. I most DEFINITELY haz a stupid.

[Mike Taylor]

[e-mail]

I'll second that. Nearly shat myself when I was overtaken by an electric TNT can last year. Too Dan close anyway - but with no notice it was coming, potentially very dangerous. (NB not being an arse, I don't listen to any device while cycling)

[werdsmith]

Re: [e-mail]

I was overtaken on my bicycle by a silent moving vehicle today too. Had I manoeuvred at the wrong moment there would likely have been a collision and one or both of us could have been in real trouble because of the amount of other noise making traffic around. The other vehicle was a bicycle.

Maybe we need noise makers adding to our bikes?

As this is £25K after all us UK taxpayers have helped to subsidise it by sending our money to South Korea it still doesn't work out economically for me. I couldn't save enough in fuel costs to make this car less expensive than the standard car I might buy. Nowhere near.

[ecofeco]

Re: [e-mail]

You need review mirrors. It isn't rocket surgery. Rules of the road say YOU are responsible for being aware of your surroundings.

[Mattjimf]

Re: [e-mail]

"Maybe we need noise makers adding to our bikes?"

Have you tried sticking ice lolly sticks in the spokes?

[The little voice inside my head]

Re: As an aside

Blind people who get a sense of a vehicle coming by hearing them are also at risk, unless they adjust to listening to tyres pressing on the road when moving, but even then it could be too late.

The other extreme are those people changing exhausts/mufflers with bigger ones for a little more performance in their sport cars.

[Alan Brown]

Re: Energy Density maths

> I think it's a real shame that these vehicles need (or are seen to need) "noise makers".

At road speeds tyre noise is more than enough. These things kick in at low speeds so you don't scare the shit out of pedestrians in car parks

They're usually disableable if you're into doing such things, but (at least in the Leaf) you can't choose your noise - which is a shame as I want mine to sound like George Jetson's flying car.

[Terry Cloth]

Don't they teach children to look both ways before crossing the road these days?

Not if they're blind, they don't.

[Hairy Spod]

Re: Don't they teach children to look both ways before crossing the road these days?

Rolls Royce have been trying to make their cars whisper quiet for 100 years, no oneever calls those dangerous

[Chris Miller]

So, it costs twice as much as a basic Kia Soul and I can drive it for 90 miles before parking it up for 10 hours to recharge - great, where do I sign?

[Voland's right hand]

Where your wallet is

If you commute by car.

1200£ per year 30 miles daily round trip, 250 days per year, assuming traffic congestion, jams, waste of fuel, etc. 8400£ savings. Services are cheaper too ~ 1000£. Tax is zero (for now) ~ 1000. All in all - it pays back on face value as a second household car/commuter vehicle within warranty. The biggest Kia problem (for me) - it being a vomit comet boat is largely alleviated by moving of centre of gravity lower so it does not wobble so much. You can charge overnight, range does not matter because your workplace is within round-trip range.

All in all, it looks viable. In fact, this is the first EV I have seen so far which is good enough to be considered as a possible replacement for the Daihatsu which we use as a city runabout when (and if) it decides to go to the great scrapheap in the sky.

[Noel Bourke]

Where did you get 10 hours from? It takes 15 minutes to rapid charge if you need it. Most people don't do more than a tiny fraction of the 140-160km real world range per day anyway. It costs between eight and ten times less to run than the diesel Soul and it's fully charged and waiting for you every morning.

[Anonymous Coward]

Or to put it another way...

.... it costs £1,750 more than a similarly specified 1.6 CRDi Soul and takes 4 hours to charge up from the 7kW home box that the vast majority of buyers will have fitted or at one of the hundreds of 7kW public chargers that as the reviewer points out are springing up in Manchester and other major cities. Makes a good deal more sense when you put it that way.

[Hairy Spod]

Re: Or to put it another way...

From what I have seen on the various UK electric car forumns, the real kicker is that Kia actually expect people to pay full price for it, Nissan dealers on the other hand do stonking discounts where you can almost get the car for the equivalent price of your petrol money on PCP

[jason 7]

Could we just...

...cut back a bot on the detailing? Remember what Coco Chanel said!

[Alan Brown]

Re: Could we just...

I want a Kamback, moondiscs and spats

Not that the CD matters a jot until you're going at least 45mph.

[Zog_but_not_the_first]

Re: Could we just...

Rather. Dog ugly, or what?

[hiker]

CO2?

The UK grid is currently emitting 408g CO2 per KWh generated [1]. The reviewer of this car managed 3.5 miles / KWh which works out at 117g/mile or 187g/Km of CO2. If this were a petrol engine, then it would be placed in band J and taxed £265/year [2]. This is the same category as a Porsche Boxster or a BMW 3 series M Sport [3].

I think electric cars are the future and I have been lucky enough to test drive a Tesla Model S, but some large improvements are needed in our generation of electricity before we all get too excited.

1. https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-green-energy/energy-independence/uk-grid-live

2. https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables

3. http://www.nextgreencar.com/car-tax/band/band-J-list/

[jonathanb]

Re: CO2?

You are comparing real life energy usage on the electric car with laboratory emissions on the Porsche. Real life fuel economy is typically about 1/2 to 1/3 of the lab figures.

[Chloe Cresswell]

Re: CO2?

Depends.. the "lab" figures for my car are 65mpg.

I routinely get 70. That's on a car that's done 218,000 miles already.

[Steve Todd]

Re: CO2? @hiker - math error

Without checking your other numbers, you get 115.7g/mile or 72.3g/km @3.5 miles/kW. You'll be hard pressed to match 72.3 using an IC engine, and you don't deposit other pollutants in the middle of urban areas while driving either.

[hiker]

Re: CO2? @hiker - math error

Good point, I did the conversion from miles to km, the wrong way round.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: CO2? @hiker - math error

A few years back Scientific American did a report comparing electric cars to IC cars based on the State they were in (and so the different energy conversion methods used to produce electricity). Generally the North-Eastern States had worse actual emissions for electric cars, so driving a Prius or equivalent in those States results in less emissions than driving a Leaf.

Overall at the moment electric cars make very little sense in this country, especially compared to hybrids. Drivers of the sort of cars with monstrous emissions are never going to buy an electric car anyway, sensible drivers of small cars will see little or no benefit. Electric vehicles only make sense once the move away from carbon burning is well under way. Until then they are just experimental vehicles to iron out the power train and battery issues. At least Kia is being upfront about the costs instead of doing a Renault and locking people into very expensive battery hire that is going to make reselling of the vehicle very difficult. The battery hire for a Renault EV costs more than the entire annual fuel consumption of my wife's small petrol car, and can't be reduced.

[Andy 97]

Work in progress.

At this rate Kia will have an extremely good alternative to my Toyota Aygo in about ten years.

I'm happy to let the city dwellers lead the 'early adopter curve' until then.

[Osbrook]

How much CO2?

Petrol cars need a lot of electricity. in fact between 4 and 4.5 KWh per gallon produced. You cannot compare CO2 produced at the tail pipe with that of the Power station.

Oil needs to be transported, then refined and then transported again. In comparison Electricity transport is cheaper. Also we can produce Electricity without using fossil fuels not as easy to produce petrol with out affecting food production and still needing a lot of electricity.

Just compare tail pipe output. It makes things easier!

[Anonymous Coward]

purely on looks

I saw the first shot and I thought: fugly. Then I saw what it looks like from behind, and it appears the front is fetching. By comparison.

[Sarah Balfour]

Re: purely on looks

It is indeed the Ann Widdecombe of motor vehicles…

[davtom]

You need to check the figures for 0-60 and top speed for the Nissan Leaf. You have your information wrong.

[AceRimmer]

Cables stored where exactly??

So in order to charge the car when out and about, KIA expect me to empty the boot to access the cubby hole where the cables are stored.

For an item which I would expect to use very frequently they seemed to have picked an awkward place to store it!