back to article EMC and Cloudera withdraw from Indiana big data event

The technology industry's objections to the US State of Indiana's new Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which permits businesses to decline to serve people on the basis of sexuality or other traits, have deepened after EMC and Cloudera cancelled their presence at a forthcoming conference. On Saturday, Cloudera veep of …

  1. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson
      Thumb Up

      Re: Well that does it. I'm not going to Indiana either.

      I might have expressed that a bit more succinctly, but I do agree that allowing people to discriminate based on their religious beliefs is plain wrong. It could readily be argued that this is unconstitutional. After all, it didn't say: "all men are created equal, but some more equal than others" last time I looked

      1. User McUser
        Headmaster

        Re: Well that does it. I'm not going to Indiana either.

        After all, [the United States' Constitution] didn't say: "all men are created equal, but some more equal than others" last time I looked

        A lot of people confuse the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution but the line you referred to exists only in the former, not the latter. The Fourteenth Amendment does codify the "all men are created equal" sentiment with the guarantee that all people have "the equal protection of the laws."

        Comment: As someone who lives and works in Indiana, for as long as I have lived here there has not been, nor is there now, any discrimination based on religion in this State - unless you count the overwhelming levels of casual prejudice against Muslims, which they (they being the legislators who wrote and passed this law) don't. This law was crafted for the singular purpose of letting bigoted Christians discriminate against whomever they pleased (you know, like Jesus did), especially homosexuals, without having to deal with the legal consequences. I'd say that its an embarrassment to our State, but at one time our Governor was the Grand Dragon of the KKK who basically raped a girl to death. (And we were a Union state in the Civil War!)

    2. Michael Hawkes
      Boffin

      Re: Well that does it. I'm not going to Indiana either.

      "What if they claim their religion permits them to tell you to get the hell out because you're wearing White after Labour Day?"

      Umm... Americans can do this anyway because of the First Amendment right to free speech. It doesn't matter if it has to do with religion or not.

      1. MarkA

        Re: Well that does it. I'm not going to Indiana either.

        Wearing white after Labor Day? Burn him. Burn the heretic.

  2. Michael Hawkes
    Facepalm

    I live and work in Indiana, so here's my two cents...

    I disagree with the law, since I think the First Amendment of the US Constitution already ensures people have the right to practice their religion. With a law as controversial as this, it's almost certainly to find its way to the Supreme Court, where I'm sure it will be overturned or gutted because of the discrimination issue.

    While I believe boycotts are rarely successful, if people decide to boycott Indiana, I'm not going to dissuade them. Maybe my rent will go down if fewer people want to move here ;-)

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Eight Day Apatheist

    Personally I'm an Eight Day Apatheist: we don't care whether or not there's a god or gods, but we sincerely believe that Monday is a day of rest.

    Seriously, isn't it time we stopped privileging certain people's "beliefs" over the law and the Constitution, regardless of how "sincerely" or "strongly" held those beliefs might be?

    1. P. Lee

      Re: Eight Day Apatheist

      >Seriously, isn't it time we stopped privileging certain people's "beliefs" over the law and the Constitution, regardless of how "sincerely" or "strongly" held those beliefs might be?

      Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

      Oh wait... it doesn't conflict with the constitution and it is the law.

      Still, we don't want laws which reflect what the people want. Down with democracy and make what I believe the law for everyone!

      Despite the popular interpretation and cheap publicity for EMC, I'm not sure the law works as stated. There also seems to be a strange conflation of "the law" and "what is good."

      There is a conceptual difference between practise and thought. Selling a cake to Muslim is fine with most people. Selling a cake with the text, "Every Woman Must Wear a Burka" might be something not everyone wants to do. The Indianna law protects that choice. You don't want to make a cake which says, "God hates fags"? The Indianna law protects that choice.

      Rather than worry about hypothetical religions, why not see how the law works in practise? If someone uses the law, publicise how they used it. Do you want to see if people really believe in their religion or if they are just being nasty? Take a look at at the instances in the UK where someone has gone into an obviously christian cafe and then gone wailing to the police because the the scrolling texts on the wall "offended" them. The police essentially shut the business down. That's probably bad legislation. It certainly isn't freedom of religion or speech. Do you really think those things should only apply to the majority opinion? Then there is the couple running a B&B who would only provide beds to married couples. They didn't just pull out of a cheap trade show and save themselves a bit of cash to protect their religious practise, they closed their entire business because the legal requirements of being in business would force them to become an enabler of sexual practises they believe to be wrong. That's how you tell the difference between someone who really believes something and someone making idiotic spaghetti monster quips. Do you want to compare religion with racism? How many white-supremacists are trying to get black people to join them, to socialise together? How many racists would be willing to lose their income source rather than enable practises they disagree with.

      Is EMC willing to do that? Will they or Apple not sell to the Vatican because of what the Vatican stands for or is this just better publicity than $30k could buy in the press?

      1. User McUser

        Re: Eight Day Apatheist

        I'd gladly write "God hates fags" on a cake if cake writing was my job; it's just a fucking CAKE, not a binding endorsement of someone's ideology.

        I'd suggest that if you don't want to write things on cakes that you don't agree with to get out of the writing-on-cakes business or only offer a set selection of generic wishes.

        PS: Please don't bring up UK law when arguing on this matter; those laws haven't applied here since July 4th, 1776.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Eight Day Apatheist

          "Please don't bring up UK law when arguing on this matter; those laws haven't applied here since July 4th, 1776."

          Many of the world's legal systems are based on English law. Near zero are based on American law.

          But yes we know the colonies chose to get in bed with the French and give up speaking English some time ago. Your loss really. Just look at how screwed up your country is now: annual gun murders over over 10,000 and the worst heathcare of any developed country but at the highest cost!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Eight Day Apatheist

        "Rather than worry about pathetic religion, why not see how the law works in practise? " "Do you want to see if people really believe in their religion or if they are just being nasty?"

        Bad laws are bad laws, has nothing to do with how people interpret them. I couldn't give a rats arse about whether peolple really beleive or just say they beleive because of peer pressure, don't try and pull the rational population into your delusions.

  4. W. Anderson

    Hopefully hundreds of national and International entities will boycott Indiana

    While the article did indicate the costs dollarwise to both EMC and Cloudera of pulling out of Indiana technology services event, the point of principle surely is more important than that of some sacrifice in lost money outlay.

    Undoubtably, many national USA and international business and organizations will continue to eagerly do business in Indiana, purely for crass "Capitalism" as the ultimate "American Way", than any human rights or human dignity position, and irregardless of the significant attack to the "so-called" principles of "Justice for All" and equality that USA relentless spews on the rest of the world.

    Even in last few years American blacks and others from Latin America, Caribbean, Africa and even those non-Caucasian citizens of Canada visiting USA have voiced their strong objections of bad and blatant discrimination treatment in Indiana and other Southern and mid-Western States - to no avail, all at the hands of so-called Christian conservatives whose religious beliefs do not accept blacks, Native Americans, Latinos and Asians as “equal” human beings and citizens deserving of same civil protections, and especially in regard rejecting any social interactions with whites.

    All these stupid acts of Christian interpretation are tolerated and de-facto legal in more than 25 States, now confirmed by new law that clearly extend dubious and possibly hostile discrimination to those "apparently" perceided as gay.

    How sick must the USA become mentally and socially before the country descends into total dysfunction.

  5. DugEBug

    Have your cake - and eat it

    No new laws are required. Since free speech is protected, the baker can simply hand over the perfectly crafted and delicious wedding cake, followed by "Enjoy the cake and have a wonderful marriage knowing that someday you'll burn in hell."

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