back to article Carriers want 5G to do everything, for anything, anywhere

The Next Generation Mobile Networks (NGMN) carriers' club has sorted out its ideas of what 5G's future, and set forth a blueprint of its preferred vision of a post-4G world. The 5G world is going to have to get cracking, though: the roadmap, with contributions from luminaries like AT&T, BT, China Mobile, DoCoMo, SingTel, …

  1. AndrueC Silver badge
    Joke

    Hey cool. Does that mean I'll get back to having reliable reception inside my house?

    1. Roland6 Silver badge
      Happy

      No!

      However, if you dig out that ancient 2G Nokia phone you may begin to wonder why you ever replaced it...

    2. Robin

      Yep, just like 4G dramatically improved network performance compared to 3G.

      This seems like the HS2 of the communications world.

      1. marky_boi

        Maybe in your part of the world.(UK)

        "" Yep, just like 4G dramatically improved network performance compared to 3G.

        This seems like the HS2 of the communications world. ""

        Here in Australia, we enjoy real 4G speeds regardless of network in most areas. GSM is being phased out and the spectrum re-farmed.. I can't for the life of me see how the UK can be so far behind... Under investment is death here, just ask Voda_AU..... Looking forward to 5G, the one caveat is enough backhaul....

  2. Paul Crawford Silver badge

    Autonomous cars?

    Really, the key thing about autonomous cars is they are autonomous!

    That means they can work in the middle of nowhere, not needing to find the roads to be exactly as surveyed, with temporary diversions and obstacles dealt with as they come, and without any sort of link at all so they don't bork with some ne'er-do-well armed with a £100 Chinese-sourced jammer comes close (or your favourite 3-4 lettered agency with its £200k jammer). WTF do these people think is going to happen if cars depend on networking?!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Autonomous cars?

      They probably think that the vehicles will connect to a hub where they can learn about closed roads, new roads or traffic jams in real time.

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Autonomous cars?

        Google "Volvo Cloud" for an example of what one vendor is thinking of.

  3. xerocred

    Spectrum

    Great, but I bet they cannot agree on using the same spectrum block worldwide.(the might agree to steal wifi)

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Spectrum

      Doubt they'll be able to, for the same reason LTE Band III is not used in America: prior commitments, usually at the state level (a chunk of Band III in the US is reserved for the military).

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Spectrum

      I think 'they' the 5G supporters, can agree - it's the spectrum currently being used by other media services: terrestrial TV, satellite TV, radio, unlicensed spectrum being used for WiFi etc. The catch is can they convince others to let them have that spectrum any time soon?

  4. druck Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Lan replacement

    The carriers also reveal that they'd like to replace the office LAN, calling for standards that can deliver “1 Gb/s to be offered simultaneously to tens of workers in the same office floor”.

    Stupid, just stupid.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Lan replacement

      Why? If you move the furniture around, at least you don't have to worry so much about replacing ceiling tiles and relocating conduit columns (While the power can come from floor sockets).

      1. AndrueC Silver badge
        Boffin

        Re: Lan replacement

        Why?

        Contention. It's what always holds wireless solutions back. 5G might offer a 1Gb/s connection but that's being shared by everyone attached to that mast. Not so hot when hundreds of people are all competing for the bandwidth ;)

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: Lan replacement

          And it's that difficult to get a SECOND mast up compared to rewiring a whole office floor?

          1. druck Silver badge
            Stop

            Re: Lan replacement

            Not just contention, but latency, security and cost. Do you think that second mast comes for free? Do you want to be paying a cell co per GB carried for your LAN?

            1. Charles 9 Silver badge

              Re: Lan replacement

              In an office environment, perhaps cell tech isn't what's called for. WiFi-based tech is and will remain the preferred setup for closed environments (like an office floor). You can set up masts, boosters, and so on, link it to your landline, set up enterprise-grade encryption, certificates, and so on, and with some investment in time and capital come up with something within reason that can perhaps give you a return on not having to run cables and conduits from the drop ceiling.

              While 5G may WANT to do everything, to borrow an idiom, not everything is best done with a hammer.

              1. AndrueC Silver badge

                Re: Lan replacement

                I'm not sure that Wifi will take over from cables though. Most devices still need mains power and anywhere you put a power socket you can put an Ethernet socket. I haven't (yet) worked in an office where cables came down from the ceiling - are you UK based? All the offices I've seen had sockets in the floor and/or walls.

                1. Charles 9 Silver badge

                  Re: Lan replacement

                  US, and most office buildings I've seen feature drop ceilings. While electrical sockets in the outer walls and floors usually have to be built in (due to being set in concrete), network connections tend to be more ephemeral and can come and go as tenants move in and move out. Guess it depends on how the office is setup. If it's mainly sets of cubicles each centered around a column, then it's easy enough to just wire up the column, but if it's more open in nature, then people within won't be as fixed to a single spot, and here properly-secured WiFi would be of benefit.

                  1. Roland6 Silver badge

                    Re: Lan replacement

                    Most factory floors, have drop cabling (mains and comm's). However, I suspect the main reason for greater emphasis on WiFi is because people are lazy and try and do things on the cheap!

                    So come the office desk re-arrangement, a fixed infrastructure generally requires someone to physically move connectors, possibly purchase some new (longer) drop leads etc. But (non-IT pro's) people will raise the question: why incur these costs when (most) PC's now have WiFi adaptors; then complain because things are (unpredictably) a little slow at times.

                    My rule of thumb, is that the WiFi is mainly to enable flexible working by laptop users, with static workstations being best served by fixed cabling. Obviously, the really challenging problem is providing power and comm's to the island reception desk in an atrium (so no convenient ceiling) that the office designers insist must be positioned in the centre of the pre-existing solid marbled floor (so has no built-in outlets)...

                    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

                      Re: Lan replacement

                      Well, for the situation stated at the end of the comment, the answer would have to be, "Raise the desk on a pedastal (giving you space to insert a box on its floor) and connect it to the wall by a wide bump runner out the back semi-permanently affixed to the floor (tearing up a solid marble floor is a no-no given the cost of obtaining such a floor in the first place) which protects the cable but can still allow even wheelchairs to run over it. No other option would fit the aesthetic or budget constraints.

          2. AndrueC Silver badge

            Re: Lan replacement

            And it's that difficult to get a SECOND mast up compared to rewiring a whole office floor?

            We don't have unlimited radio spectrum. Put another mast up and you have to ensure that they don't use overlapping frequencies. You could try using beaming technology but I'm not sure how effective that really would be an urban office environment.

  5. DerekCurrie
    Facepalm

    Big Hint: Implement 4G First!

    FACT: The world has NOT yet implemented the actual, real, published 4G standard yet!

    Considering this shameful fact, why is anyone bothering with 5G? It's good marketing hype! That's the same reason we have a FAKE '4G', actual 3G standard running across the world at this point in time. It was good marketing hype to call what is actually high end 3G '4G'. This is what Marketing Morons do for a living.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Big Hint: Implement 4G First!

      Well the thing the marketing morons have to deal with are the clueless consumers who have the attention span of OOH SHINY! Sometimes you have to move now or you miss the boat altogether and your market collapses. Many firms have fallen for being too ambitious.

  6. I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects

    Now just hold on a moment

    If you cast your mind back to the days when electronic eavesdropping first became viable, it wasn't the Marconis or the Capones that stood to lose, it was City Hall.

    Marconi wanted everyone to have facilities that could be spied on.

    Capone used runners just like he does today. He don a use a de telephone.

    If you think Comcast and AT&T want to give the US people free speech you don't have the faintest idea how badly wrong things are going to get. It will be 6G before the NSA is ready to dole out the next slice. When they are capable of dealing with greater throughput of information, things might be allowed to improve.

    Nothing is going to change until then.

    The Internet represents the greatest threat to the way governments hoodwink us all. Comcast and the NSA are just good examples of why and how. Take for example a free white state with a small, easily controlled citizenry, whose government has had the radio communications of its far flung natives taped for decades:

    >Here in Australia, we enjoy real 4G speeds regardless of network in most areas

    See?

    Australia is the Russia of the western world. I bet the Sorks have got good comms. too. (And the Norks are working on the Capone version.)

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