back to article Planning to upgrade your Lumia to Windows 10? NOT SO FAST

The latest word from Microsoft is that owners of Windows Phone 8 handsets won't necessarily be able to upgrade to Windows Phone 10 after all, in an apparent retreat from what the software giant has said previously. "Our goal is for the majority of the Lumia phones running Windows Phone 8 and 8.1 to join the Windows ecosystem …

  1. Paul Shirley

    is it because they're ARM?

    It's hard not to assume this is the fallout from dropping RT and someone remembering too late that shipped Lumias run on ARM.

    1. Eddy Ito

      Re: is it because they're ARM?

      I doubt they forgot it ran on ARM but it's possible. IIRC, most (all?) Lumias run on Qualcomm processors. Perhaps there are a few models that run Qualcomm's older Scorpion architecture instead of Krait and won't make the grade? I seem to recall that when one update rolled out some phones were going to get FM radio support and some weren't so maybe that indicates an internal difference of chips which makes the cut or maybe it's Qi related. Then again, being MS it's also possible they just decided to say screw that, let folks with phone xyz buy a new one if they want Win 10.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: is it because they're ARM?

      Oh so they're no longer targeting ARM?? wow

      I wonder if that's because of their inability, or Intel have made a deal. I'm thinking both.

      1. GreggS

        Re: is it because they're ARM?

        So after everybody bitching about them for so long, it appears that Microsoft are actually ARMless after all.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: is it because they're ARM?

          Usual M$ Practice - promise all , deliver little.

          Fool me once shame on you (7.1), Fool me twice shame on me (8.1) - should do their future sales no end of good

          1. Richard Plinston

            Re: is it because they're ARM?

            > Fool me once shame on you (7.1), Fool me twice shame on me (8.1)

            There was also the complete deadending of WM6.5. No phones or apps could go to WP7. WP7 and apps were deadened by WP8. Now only some phones will be upgradable to W10.

            Also it is unlikely that 'universal apps' will run on WP8 so effectively WP8 phones and apps are dead. Just as WP7 phones went unsold, except in the bargain bins, after WP8 was announced and was not going to be an upgrade, now WP8 phone sales will tank and developers will drop WP8 as a target.

    3. Terry Barnes

      Re: is it because they're ARM?

      Wouldn't that affect every model, not just some of them?

      1. Eddy Ito

        Re: is it because they're ARM?

        @Terry Barnes, it would as Lumias all run ARM (Qualcomm specifically, someone will correct me if I'm wrong). In thinking about it a bit more it could be a simple matter of MS being MS and some of these phones only have 8GB flash and 512 MB ram.

        My work Lumia 620, which has WP 8.1 and Here+ maps, only has 500 MB remaining in flash with as much as possible pushed to the SD card. Granted it's 2.5 GB for the system and 3.9 GB in maps plus a few other things I couldn't move. I'm thinking it doesn't leave much room for upgrading the system without some extra fancy footwork shuffling all that data back and forth with the cloud. Either way, whether it's limited by flash or ram I figure 8.1 is the end of the line for the two year old 620.

        1. amolbk

          How to move offline maps to SD card

          @Eddy Ito -- I used 'Storage Check' app to 'move' my maps to the SD card. This app has been replaced by Storage Sense, which unfortunately does not have the moving maps to SD card feature.

          See here for details: http://www.windowscentral.com/how-move-offline-map-data-your-sd-card-windows-phone.

          Notes:

          - Storage Check does not show up in the Store. Use the download link given in the above article to install it.

          - You need to delete your existing maps on the phone, and then download them again after switching their location to the SD card.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: is it because they're ARM?

      "It's hard not to assume this is the fallout from dropping RT"

      But they have not dropped RT. Microsoft just recently announced that RT would be getting a lot of the Windows 10 functionality.

      http://blog.gsmarena.com/windows-rt-dead-yet-says-microsoft-wont-updated-windows-10/

  2. Teiwaz

    Redmond cuts off Arm, fewer legs to stand on...?

    Seems like a kick to the nethers for customers who bought a 'Windows' phone if they have to upgrade their phone by buying a new one while others get a free pass to the 'Windows10 funhouse'.

    Tthe 'supported life of the device' just got curtailed for some of these Lumia phones before the 'free' upgrade program even begun.

    1. cambsukguy

      Re: Redmond cuts off Arm, fewer legs to stand on...?

      Well, since the update will not come for about a year, any phone would be at least a year old or any owner would be able to know that they bought a phone which might not get an upgrade.

      I also agree with the other post here that says the high end phones will get the upgrade (with any feature supported by their hardware).

      Most of the people buying low end phones don't know much about software versions or care much about updates, I have a friend that won't update to 8.1 "Because mine is already exactly what I want, why take the risk".

      For myself, I want a new phone by then so the issue is moot, as it will be for many using hardware upgrade cycles.

      Perhaps they will produce an 8.10 upgrade for the folks that can't upgrade, that won't be confusing.

      1. Richard Plinston

        Re: Redmond cuts off Arm, fewer legs to stand on...?

        > Well, since the update will not come for about a year, any phone would be at least a year old or any owner would be able to know that they bought a phone which might not get an upgrade.

        I think that the first part of that is correct, up to the 'or'. Any phone would be a year old because they won't be buying a phone that they don't know if it will get an upgrade. As developers will drop WP8 as a target, moving on to 'universal apps', the app store for WP8 will become static, just as WP7's did when WP8 was announced.

        At the time of WP8's announcement many commenters were stating that WP7 would get the upgrade in spite of WP8 requiring dual core, which no WP7 phone had. In the end all they got was some new colours and box sizes with 7.8. an '8.10' may be similar.

  3. Innocent-Bystander*

    Low end will probably be dropped

    I'm thinking the higher end phones (with 1GB+ RAM will be upgraded, the rest will be dropped.

    I'm almost positive my Lumia 920 will be part of the Windows 10 upgrade.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Low end will probably be dropped

      Lately they seem to be targeting low-end handsets and forgetting about the high end so they'd be silly to make a phone OS that only plays well with high-end hardware. Probably the first generation of Lumia handsets will get left out.

      It seems if they can drop an architecture they will (e.g. ARM tablets) because it's too much work to get Windows 10 to run everywhere. Remember it's just Windows (Phone) 8 with a coat of paint. If they start launching Lumia phones with Intel SoCs then they're in full retreat from Windows 10 for ARM devices.

    2. gregthecanuck

      Re: Low end will probably be dropped

      From your mouth to....

      I also have a 920 and would be seriously displeased if it was orphaned.

      1. Pascal Monett Silver badge
        Coat

        Well, one must admit that Microsoft is very used to displeasing people.

    3. Phil W

      Re: Low end will probably be dropped

      I agree, I think the 1GB RAM marker will be key. Devices like yhe Lumia 620 already work poorly with Windows 8.1 for some things such as making video calls. Dropping Windows 10 support for them will help push them out of the ecosystem and raise the baseline.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Low end will probably be dropped

        "Dropping Windows 10 support for them will help push them out of the ecosystem and raise the baseline."

        It might do, but since the growth in emerging markets is where Microsoft need to succeed, I'd have thought that W10 will have to run on cheap hardware, unless they want the locals to buy cheap Nokiasofts only because they have to, but to aspire to own just about any other brand when they have the money.

        And that's because although I'm sure WP8 is a competent phone OS, if Microsoft have a reputation for offering developing markets last year's products, then they will earn themselves a reputation for cultural imperialism that won't do them any good.

  4. Tom 35

    I'm going to guess that the ones that are selling, the cheap ones that are free on a 2 year plan, will be NO.

    The hand full of expensive high end hardware phones YES.

  5. Alan Denman

    If most sales are low end..

    then that would mean the vast majority will not be upgraded.

    They need to clarify, otherwise it currently sounds a con. Saying that, simply by tarting up a GUI, they can call it 10.

    They can even omit all new features out and call it 10 if they want.

  6. Guz

    Actually MS has to say that now. Because it really isn't up to them as to which devices will get upgraded, especially in the USA.

    It's the carriers that have the final say as to which phones will get what updates, either firmware or O/S.

    A perfect example is T-Mobile, and the Lumia 810. Right now the L810 is still on the original firmware (Amber), while everyone else is on Black, Cyan, or Denim. T-Mobile points their finger at Nokia (now Microsoft) for not giving them newer firmware, where-as Nokia/Microsoft have said that they gave T-Mobile the updates and it's T-Mobile that is holding it back.

    Which company to you believe? Nokia/Microsoft or T-Mobile? Personally, I believe Nokia/Microsoft

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Ah yes. They have that with Android. I thought it would have been different with WP.

  7. Snapper
    Facepalm

    Now.....

    Is anyone actually, genuinely surprised at this?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Now.....

      I must admit, I didn't think it would happen... but no, I'm not shocked. Just frustrated.

  8. Terry 6 Silver badge

    If...

    ......Microsoft don't upgrade the 635 I will never, ever buy one of their phones again. I refuse to be blackmailed into getting a new phone. Which is what it would be,

  9. zanto
    FAIL

    need to fix basic issues

    the email client on my Iumia doesn't support proper landscape orientation. nothing of what I've read indicates that this will get fixed.

    unless windows phone 10 gets it's basics right win phone will become even more irrelevant.

    1. Marvin O'Gravel Balloon Face

      Re: need to fix basic issues

      Being able to turn the phone sideways is the least of its problems. It doesn't even support proper mail attachments or certain authentication mechanisms for SMTP.

  10. agricola
    Happy

    Talk about PERFECT TIMING! THANK YOU, MICROSOFT!!!

    The great news: I decided to never again buy any product or service from Google, after just having returned a 'phone whose only 'giveaway' was a well-hidden request (within the set-up process) to "...click here to acknowledge your acceptance of Google's privacy Terms and Conditions...". Believe it or not, the term 'Android' was well hidden on the box. But the cost was outstanding.

    Sooo, I went looking, and after a week of really serious comparisons HAD decided to place an order today for a new Lumia phone offering.

    Now, I'm not one to say, "...no, Hell no...", or "...never...", but the FACT of an upgrade to Win10 was a serious consideration in--what I thought was--my final decision.

    I'm old enough to have seen too many millions of people burned by Microsoft, and to have seen tons and tons of PolyAnnas whose stance is..."surely it won't happen to me..." (some are right here, in these comments. Unbelievable!).

    I won't be placing an order for a new Lumia phone, today.

    Thank you, and warmest regards, Microsoft.

    1. agricola
      Happy

      Re: Talk about PERFECT TIMING! THANK YOU, MICROSOFT!!!

      ...but, most of the thanks should go to you, El Buitre, for bringing this typical Microsoft activity to light.

      Keep their feet to the fire, along with--choke! choke! cough! cough!--Google.

    2. largefile

      Re: Talk about PERFECT TIMING! THANK YOU, MICROSOFT!!!

      Stupid comment.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Talk about PERFECT TIMING! THANK YOU, MICROSOFT!!!

      I'm sure they will be gutted, so what os do you use then? Just out of curiosity

  11. largefile

    Why are you folks even here posting? This is just a hate all things Microsoft rag. I work for Microsoft vendors all the time on campus and have had my fair share of exposure to the folks in the Windows Phone group. If you think that the possibility that certain Lumia or Windows 8+ phones won't be able to update to 10 because Microsoft wants to sell you a new Lumia you are nuts. They want as many happy people as they can possibly make happy. They want as many people using 10 on all of their devices as they can muster.

    Get a life folks.

    1. agricola
      Happy

      Another of the Artificial Intelligencia heard from...

      "Why are you folks even here posting? This is just a hate all things Microsoft rag. I work for ...They want as many people using 10 on all of their devices as they can muster..."

      "I will not insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said."

      --William F. Buckley

      { "...even here posting..."??!!. The esteemed commenter and I agree: some should not be allowed to be even here posting.}

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So some of the lesser spec'd handsets will be missed off, how is that different from other phone makers?

    This is no uncommon, I remember not that long ago HTC having a reputation for a very similar thing

  13. JimmyPage
    FAIL

    So the developers ..

    Who will see their Windows 8.0/8.1 apps binned can join the developers that saw their 7.5/7.8 apps binned, who had joined those developers that saw their 6.5 apps binned.

    No wonder no one writes apps for Windows Phone.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So the developers ..

      "No wonder no one writes apps for Windows Phone."

      I guess you didn't know there are about 500,000 Apps in the Windows store now? Inc one for The Reg!

  14. Tommy Pock

    Nope.

    And the chances of the apps I have on Windows Phone 8.1 working on Windows 10 are...?

    Keeping WP 8.1 on my 1020. I'm not stupid.

    1. Arctic fox

      @Tommy Pock Re: "Nope." I agree.

      The only reason I would have had to upgrade my Lumia 1020 would have been if it could run the very latest imaging software for the Pureview cameras. It can't of course because unlike a couple of the other high-end Lumias it does not have a quadcore cpu. Like you I will be keeping my 1020 on 8.1.

    2. dogged
      WTF?

      Re: Nope.

      Don't see why not.

      Just because Universal Apps are a thing doesn't mean that apps which aren't Universal won't run. WP8.1 already runs universal apps and non_Universal apps.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Eh? What going on here?

    *Some* Lumias may not get upgraded which is not unreasonable with the first gen handsets.

    Terry 6: If...

    ......Microsoft don't upgrade the 635 I will never, ever buy one of their phones again. I refuse to be blackmailed into getting a new phone. Which is what it would be,

    So a year from now, your low feature £70 (at today's prices) phone MIGHT not be upgraded to Windows 10 (but may be)? Really, who cares. It won't just stop working. Apple discontinued support for the iphone 3g less than a year after the phone was discontinued - on a device that may have cost 10 times more.

    I have a 635 and have just gone back to it from an LG G3 because it just works.

    Don't get me wrong I dislike M$ as much as the next poster but what's the point in speculating.

    1. Terry 6 Silver badge

      @AC

      It's not about the phone itself. I like my 635. It's about how we are treated.

      The phone is reasonably new. If it won't be updated then I'm not happy.

  16. druck Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Screwed Again

    Just how many times do Windows Phone users come back for this punishment?

    1. dogged

      Re: Screwed Again

      Shut up.

      Microsoft can't guarantee that carriers will roll out their updates. They've never been able to guarantee that, it's not news. Google can't guarantee it either.

      1. druck Silver badge
        Thumb Down

        Re: Screwed Again

        This is nothing to do with carriers rolling out upgrades, it's about Microsoft not even bothering.

  17. r4gg3h
    Meh

    Since I still don't even have Cortana for my 925 yet, I don't have much hope that Win10 will be forthcoming.

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