They are going to lose. The question is what is netflix going to do about it. Either way, I am sure canal+ is watching closely.
Sacre vache! Netflix ne parle pas le Frenchy ... zat is against ze LAW
Netflix's seeming inability to parle Francais has landed the US video giant in trouble. The French national consumer protection association, CLCV, is suing the online goggle-box for breaking French consumer law. According to CLCV, Netflix imposes “malicious and illegal clauses” in its contracts with customers. Apparently …
COMMENTS
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Tuesday 25th November 2014 14:37 GMT Anonymous Coward
"The question is what is netflix going to do about it"
They've got two choices, comply with the local rules or exit the market. Whilst I can't see them making huge revenues in France, they'd set a precedent for competitors if they start exiting markets rather than complying with local rules, so I'd guess they'll have to get off their lazy behinds and draft locally compliant T&C.
Why they allowed things to get so far when the outcome is inevitable is anybody's guess. Presumably the problem came from the fact that back at Netflix HQ, somebody has only ever heard of Paris, TX, and thought that local language compliance was to have the standard T&C read out by somebody with slow speech and a pronounced drawl.
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Wednesday 26th November 2014 05:26 GMT Fluffy Bunny
If you think the French are bad with their overblown sense of culture, try the Canadians. If you write a program in Quebec that accepts English input, it must also require the same input in French. Of course you don't need to input anything in English. Talk about provincial prejudice. They aren't even part of France.
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Tuesday 25th November 2014 14:48 GMT ElReg!comments!Pierre
Canal+ is perhaps watching
But the ISPs are probably watching much more closely. They offer pay-per-view services that conflict directly with Netflix while Canal+ has been created around porn and footie, and still have a solid core of subscribers who don't care much about other stuff, so they are not really head-to-head with Netflix.
The language thing is easy to fix so it's not likely to be a big problem; however the contract change point would probably require Netflix to change quite a few thing in it's operating procedures (and it may give "bad" ideas to other customers) so they'll probably argue that they operate from Lux and thus don't need to obey French law. Expect much drama!
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Tuesday 25th November 2014 15:00 GMT Anonymous Coward
Technicality vs Common Sense
Technically that would be true if they were only selling contracts to the (huge) population of Luxemburg....
But technicalities apart, doesn't it just make basic sense - if you target a market outside of your home turf - to use the local language and a locally enforceable contract?
Hello Netflix wake uuuuup.... most people in this world do not reside in an english speaking country :-)
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Tuesday 25th November 2014 15:30 GMT Tom 38
Re: Technicality vs Common Sense
Technically that would be true if they were only selling contracts to the (huge) population of Luxemburg....
But technicalities apart, doesn't it just make basic sense - if you target a market outside of your home turf…
The idea of the common market is that any business trading legally in any part of the EU can sell goods and services to any customer in any other part of the EU.
The key point here is that Luxembourg is in the EU, and so Netflix Luxembourg is fully entitled to sell goods and services to French consumers providing that they satisfy the Luxembourgian laws under which they operate - their "home turf" is the whole EU.
My post pointed out that even though that is what EU law says, France has a particular reputation for doing whatever the hell it likes. As a gross generalisation, Germans pass the laws, Brits slavishly follow them and the French ignore them.
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Tuesday 25th November 2014 17:02 GMT James 51
Re: Technicality vs Common Sense
When O'Leary wanted French people in a French airport to have contracts confirming to Irish rather than French law as the section of the airport they were working in might be considered not technically within France. This was the result:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/jan/09/ryanair-marseille-employment-row-contracts
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Tuesday 25th November 2014 17:03 GMT James 51
Re: Technicality vs Common Sense
"The key point here is that Luxembourg is in the EU, and so Netflix Luxembourg is fully entitled to sell goods and services to French consumers providing that they satisfy the Luxembourgian laws under which they operate - their "home turf" is the whole EU."
Not entirely correct as the new VAT rules show.
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Wednesday 26th November 2014 13:41 GMT strum
Re: Technicality vs Common Sense
>The idea of the common market is that any business trading legally in any part of the EU can sell goods and services to any customer in any other part of the EU.
And there are a swathe of trading rules to make sure that everyone is on the same page.
The Machine Directive (don't know if it applies to bits & bytes) requires that all texts required to operate the 'Machine' should be in the language of the country where it is installed (along with a copy of same in the original English, so the customer can double-check that the translation is kosher).
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Tuesday 25th November 2014 15:31 GMT NotWorkAdmin
Re: T&Cs
That's what occurred to me. I have a Netflix account. I pay them a fiver each month and I watch stuff. I assume there are some terms somewhere but I never looked. I know if I do I'll just see a bunch of reasons why I shouldn't use the service. Can't do that until I've finished Dexter at minimum.
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Wednesday 26th November 2014 11:02 GMT Brewster's Angle Grinder
Re: For once, I'm with the French...
I've not read Netflix's, but I have read others. And if there's a dispute, and they're in "English", then I have a chance of arguing with them. I have zero chance in Navajo.
Somehow, I'm reminded of the Vogons. "Whaddayamean you don't speak Navajo? Hundreds of thousands of you peanut-brained apes manage it, I'm sure you could have learnt to." And you know at the point you've learnt Navajo they'll switch to Sami.
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Tuesday 25th November 2014 14:56 GMT Anonymous Coward
"Netflix has so far failed to comment on the issue, and El Reg is awaiting reply to an email sent this morning." That's probably because you sent the e-mail in French !
"Bon alors Netflix, qu'est ce que vous foutez? Ici au registre on attend votre reponse avec une impatience mal deguisee!" (sorry for the missing accents)
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Tuesday 25th November 2014 15:31 GMT ElReg!comments!Pierre
Does this imply that anyone making their wares available over the Internet must produce Ts&Cs in Khmer, on the off chance that someone in Cambodia decides to make a purchase?
Netflix may have had half a (bad faith) defence right there. Unfortunately for them they do have region restrictions...
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Tuesday 25th November 2014 19:04 GMT Anonymous Coward
Why don't the French do like the rest of us
And just click "I agree" without looking at them? Anyone here who says they can read and fully understand the entire agreements for Netflix, Microsoft, Facebook, Apple, etc. is either lying, badly mistaken, or has a very extensive legal background.
If there's anything nasty in one of these agreements, I'm pretty sure I'll hear about it in the tech news and can decide whether or not I give a damn.
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Wednesday 26th November 2014 10:57 GMT Anonymous Coward
English is the international language of business, navigation, telecomms, science and more. When I watch TV dubbed/subtitled into English it's quite common for the script to break into English at times - especially when the Swedish cop needs to speak to his Dutch opposite number.
Combining first and second languages English is by far the most widely spoken language in the world. In many (most?) countries where it is not the first language it is extensively taught and is seen as key to better employment prospects.
Netflix are simply acknowledging that those with the inclination to dig deeper into their T&C will be drawn from the better educated and intelligent members of french society who will have by definition, an adequate grasp of English. Alternatively do what I do when I encounter some internet content in another language: ask Google Translate to assist.
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