back to article Sacre vache! Netflix ne parle pas le Frenchy ... zat is against ze LAW

Netflix's seeming inability to parle Francais has landed the US video giant in trouble. The French national consumer protection association, CLCV, is suing the online goggle-box for breaking French consumer law. According to CLCV, Netflix imposes “malicious and illegal clauses” in its contracts with customers. Apparently …

  1. James 51

    They are going to lose. The question is what is netflix going to do about it. Either way, I am sure canal+ is watching closely.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "The question is what is netflix going to do about it"

      They've got two choices, comply with the local rules or exit the market. Whilst I can't see them making huge revenues in France, they'd set a precedent for competitors if they start exiting markets rather than complying with local rules, so I'd guess they'll have to get off their lazy behinds and draft locally compliant T&C.

      Why they allowed things to get so far when the outcome is inevitable is anybody's guess. Presumably the problem came from the fact that back at Netflix HQ, somebody has only ever heard of Paris, TX, and thought that local language compliance was to have the standard T&C read out by somebody with slow speech and a pronounced drawl.

      1. James 51

        The comdey value option is Netflix do nothing and wait to see what happens. It would be a mistake to underestimate the French culture lobby in France though. It's a big part of nation self identify.

        1. Khaptain Silver badge

          Agreed, the culture in France is about on even par with the Muricans and Guns.

          Touche pas mon cul(ture).

        2. Fluffy Bunny
          Facepalm

          If you think the French are bad with their overblown sense of culture, try the Canadians. If you write a program in Quebec that accepts English input, it must also require the same input in French. Of course you don't need to input anything in English. Talk about provincial prejudice. They aren't even part of France.

    2. ElReg!comments!Pierre

      Canal+ is perhaps watching

      But the ISPs are probably watching much more closely. They offer pay-per-view services that conflict directly with Netflix while Canal+ has been created around porn and footie, and still have a solid core of subscribers who don't care much about other stuff, so they are not really head-to-head with Netflix.

      The language thing is easy to fix so it's not likely to be a big problem; however the contract change point would probably require Netflix to change quite a few thing in it's operating procedures (and it may give "bad" ideas to other customers) so they'll probably argue that they operate from Lux and thus don't need to obey French law. Expect much drama!

      1. Spiracle
        Coat

        Re: Canal+ is perhaps watching

        Canal+ has been created around porn and footie

        Birth Canal+?

      2. Tom 35

        The language thing is easy to fix

        It's a service where people can watch stuff in English. The French are going to bitch no mater what.

        So give them something obvious to bitch about, and easy to fix.

        Guaranteed quality is a bit more of a problem since the local ISPs can pull a Comcast.

        1. Jan 0 Silver badge

          Re: The language thing is easy to fix

          Bugger, I thought NetFlix might be thinking of embracing world cinema.

    3. Tom 38

      Technically, Netflix don't have to do anything that they wouldn't have to do in Luxembourg.

      However "technically", "France" and "European law" don't necessarily have a lot to do with each other.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Technicality vs Common Sense

        Technically that would be true if they were only selling contracts to the (huge) population of Luxemburg....

        But technicalities apart, doesn't it just make basic sense - if you target a market outside of your home turf - to use the local language and a locally enforceable contract?

        Hello Netflix wake uuuuup.... most people in this world do not reside in an english speaking country :-)

        1. Tom 38

          Re: Technicality vs Common Sense

          Technically that would be true if they were only selling contracts to the (huge) population of Luxemburg....

          But technicalities apart, doesn't it just make basic sense - if you target a market outside of your home turf…

          The idea of the common market is that any business trading legally in any part of the EU can sell goods and services to any customer in any other part of the EU.

          The key point here is that Luxembourg is in the EU, and so Netflix Luxembourg is fully entitled to sell goods and services to French consumers providing that they satisfy the Luxembourgian laws under which they operate - their "home turf" is the whole EU.

          My post pointed out that even though that is what EU law says, France has a particular reputation for doing whatever the hell it likes. As a gross generalisation, Germans pass the laws, Brits slavishly follow them and the French ignore them.

          1. James 51

            Re: Technicality vs Common Sense

            When O'Leary wanted French people in a French airport to have contracts confirming to Irish rather than French law as the section of the airport they were working in might be considered not technically within France. This was the result:

            http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/jan/09/ryanair-marseille-employment-row-contracts

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Technicality vs Common Sense

              @James 51

              "The Irish low-cost airline will close its only French base in Marseille this week in the latest round of a bitter war with French authorities."

              I never thought I'd "thumbs up" anything O'Leary/Ryanair did.

          2. James 51

            Re: Technicality vs Common Sense

            "The key point here is that Luxembourg is in the EU, and so Netflix Luxembourg is fully entitled to sell goods and services to French consumers providing that they satisfy the Luxembourgian laws under which they operate - their "home turf" is the whole EU."

            Not entirely correct as the new VAT rules show.

          3. strum

            Re: Technicality vs Common Sense

            >The idea of the common market is that any business trading legally in any part of the EU can sell goods and services to any customer in any other part of the EU.

            And there are a swathe of trading rules to make sure that everyone is on the same page.

            The Machine Directive (don't know if it applies to bits & bytes) requires that all texts required to operate the 'Machine' should be in the language of the country where it is installed (along with a copy of same in the original English, so the customer can double-check that the translation is kosher).

        2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: Technicality vs Common Sense

          to use the local language

          Netflix doesn't come in Arabic either.

  2. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

    For once, I'm with the French...

    T&C are bad enough, but they absolutely should be in the languages of the country a corporation is operating in. Imagine if we were directed to T&C in Navajo.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: For once, I'm with the French...

      Have you ever tried to read the T&Cs? Most of the time they might as well have been written in Navajo for all the sense that I can make out of them.

      1. NotWorkAdmin

        Re: T&Cs

        That's what occurred to me. I have a Netflix account. I pay them a fiver each month and I watch stuff. I assume there are some terms somewhere but I never looked. I know if I do I'll just see a bunch of reasons why I shouldn't use the service. Can't do that until I've finished Dexter at minimum.

      2. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

        Re: For once, I'm with the French...

        I've not read Netflix's, but I have read others. And if there's a dispute, and they're in "English", then I have a chance of arguing with them. I have zero chance in Navajo.

        Somehow, I'm reminded of the Vogons. "Whaddayamean you don't speak Navajo? Hundreds of thousands of you peanut-brained apes manage it, I'm sure you could have learnt to." And you know at the point you've learnt Navajo they'll switch to Sami.

    2. P. Lee

      Re: For once, I'm with the French...

      I don't think it would be a problem if the whole thing was in English, but if the sales pitch is in French, the T's & C's should be as well.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Netflix has so far failed to comment on the issue, and El Reg is awaiting reply to an email sent this morning." That's probably because you sent the e-mail in French !

    "Bon alors Netflix, qu'est ce que vous foutez? Ici au registre on attend votre reponse avec une impatience mal deguisee!" (sorry for the missing accents)

  4. frank ly
    Happy

    Don't apologise to us, apologise to Académie française.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Alien

      T'ouvres ton brouteur et tu cliques sur courriel, t'attrape un bon, gros maliciel

      The entourloupettes of the Académie Française are a major source of mirth even among french-speaking people.

      1. ElReg!comments!Pierre

        ? Re: T'ouvres ton brouteur et tu cliques sur courriel, t'attrape un bon, gros maliciel

        A brouteur is a con-man in African French parlance; I don't think it has any other meaning as a noun, endorsed by the Académie or not. Did I miss something, or did you mean butineur instead?

  5. Chris Miller

    Does this imply that anyone making their wares available over the Internet must produce Ts&Cs in Khmer, on the off chance that someone in Cambodia decides to make a purchase?

    1. James 51

      It might do if your website was www.IWantToSellYouStuff.Cambodia and most of the content of the page was in Khmer.

      It's in Netflix's interest to comply. Imagine if a judge decides the contract is unenforaceable and they have to pay back all the money they've collected since they launched.

    2. ElReg!comments!Pierre

      Does this imply that anyone making their wares available over the Internet must produce Ts&Cs in Khmer, on the off chance that someone in Cambodia decides to make a purchase?

      Netflix may have had half a (bad faith) defence right there. Unfortunately for them they do have region restrictions...

  6. sandman

    Seen this before

    I've worked in the past for an international (well, sort of) company where the first level of help on the website was in the local languages, then switched to English when they would have required to pay for a technical translator ;-)

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    French.

    "the group was also annoyed that certain Netflix conditions referred back to English text, meaning French users might have no idea what they are signing up to."

    Well they're French, right? So having no idea is kind of a congenital situation, isn't it?

    1. P. Lee
      Coat

      Re: French.

      Surely the correct response from Netflix is to shrug.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: French.

        Absolutely gallic!

        The comic "Astérix, Obélix et Netflix" is already in preparation.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well I've just signed up

    ... for the free month.

    This is so far the only VoD service that offers undubbed versions.

    All the ISP/Mobile services, Google and XBox videos only give you the dubbed over versions.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why don't the French do like the rest of us

    And just click "I agree" without looking at them? Anyone here who says they can read and fully understand the entire agreements for Netflix, Microsoft, Facebook, Apple, etc. is either lying, badly mistaken, or has a very extensive legal background.

    If there's anything nasty in one of these agreements, I'm pretty sure I'll hear about it in the tech news and can decide whether or not I give a damn.

  10. Zangetsu

    in Netflix's defense, nobody can speak french, not even those that live in france do it right.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      English is the international language of business, navigation, telecomms, science and more. When I watch TV dubbed/subtitled into English it's quite common for the script to break into English at times - especially when the Swedish cop needs to speak to his Dutch opposite number.

      Combining first and second languages English is by far the most widely spoken language in the world. In many (most?) countries where it is not the first language it is extensively taught and is seen as key to better employment prospects.

      Netflix are simply acknowledging that those with the inclination to dig deeper into their T&C will be drawn from the better educated and intelligent members of french society who will have by definition, an adequate grasp of English. Alternatively do what I do when I encounter some internet content in another language: ask Google Translate to assist.

    2. ElReg!comments!Pierre
      Happy

      not even those that live in france do it right.

      Whereas not even those who live in your neck of the woods can type english right.

  11. stringyfloppy

    Come on! I don't know what Fois Gras means, but I still eat it!

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Headmaster

      It's "Foie Gras" and it comes from cruelly stuffed duck.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Foie Gras

        ... is better from goose.

        Yum, yum, yum and a big Gallic 'pah!!' to supposed cruelty.

  12. Vociferous

    France. France never changes.

    Clearly it's either become bored with or emboldened by it's war on Google.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Administrative penny-pinching

    And here I was thinking that Luxembourg was overflowing with business lawyers fluent in French, German, and English, as well the local dialect, Taxhavenese...

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