Vodafone: For Pete's sake! Apple’s 'soft' SIM's JUST AN EE SIM

Vodafone CEO Vittorio Colao has dismissed the Apple Soft-SIM as “just an EE SIM” and said that it would not be supported by his company. “To me, a SIM which can switch from one operator to the other [but] ... is locked – I’m not sure how much to support [it],” the charismatic CEO said. He can see the benefits, though. “Is …

[Gordon 10]

Expect Coloa...

...to quietly get in line with the begging bowl once he gets steamrollered by Apple. Especial if Google weigh in with a default design for Android more in line with Apples than the GSMA.

Classic incumbent complacency. I give the GSMA to get a competing solution into multiple handsets and across multiple Telco's before the manufacturers each their lunch.

History has shown us that the mobile Telco's are pretty poor innovators and tend to lurch from fluke revenue stream to fluke revenue stream, more often than not.

the next year or so should be amusing. Must review my Voda shares.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy

Apple is pushing things in a consumer friendly directly, rather than a carrier friendly direction. Of course the CEO of a major telco isn't going to like it.

Hardly any telcos were willing to sign up for the iPhone at first, and one of the big reasons was because Apple wouldn't let them touch the firmware. I'm surprised that so many Android devices are still customized, but the problem is because while Google is a big dog, the various Android OEMs mostly aren't, and don't have the market power to dictate because they can say "fine, we won't carry your phone, we'll carry your competitor's nearly identical model instead"

I'm sure whatever solution the GSMA comes up with will retain the power in carrier's hands, and only give the consumer an illusion of power. So obviously they'd prefer Apple would have politely waited for them instead of going their own way, because now whatever solution the GSMA comes out with, if it is more restrictive than Apple's, it will be ignored by the market.

[Dan 55]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy

Apple is pushing things in an Apple friendly direction, not a customer friendly direction or a carrier friendly direction. It's a way of Apple ensuring they get commission from the carrier for iDevice tariffs.

The current system as it stands is quite customer friendly. It was a little more customer friendly a few years ago when there was one SIM form instead of three.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy

Please, post your proof that Apple is requiring some sort of payment from the carrier in exchange for being included in the setup screen where customers can choose. No? Thought not.

It isn't ideal that not all carriers are included, but this is just version 1.0, and nothing has changed to prevent the old way of doing things - i.e. you can still get a SIM from whatever carrier you want and use that like you always have been able to.

Given that, only those with half a brain would try to claim that what Apple is doing is not consumer friendly. Consumers have lost nothing, and have gained another option that they have a choice whether to use or not use. That option costs them nothing but is more convenient if they wish to use one of the available carriers.

If Apple is successful in pushing this through universally so they can make all carriers available, it may be a huge boon to consumers as future versions of this software could allow choosing multiple carriers for different situations to minimize your out of pocket cost. Obviously carriers would hate that, which is why they're resistant to the direction Apple is taking and would rather come up with their own scheme that provides consumers the illusion of choice but leaves some barriers in place for switching carriers so they can keep milking us.

[werdsmith]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy

"Please, post your proof that Apple is requiring some sort of payment from the carrier in exchange for being included in the setup screen where customers can choose. No? Thought not."

Apple did it from day 1 by the use of the apple carrier file, which is what makes it very difficult for MVNOs to fully support Apple features such as logo display, visual voice mail, personal hotspot and a few other things. Giffgaff, for example, couldn't fully support iPhones for a long time until they bought the starter pack from apple and became one of their obedient resellers.

[ThomH]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy (@Dan 55)

In theory, what's good for the consumer is good for the manufacturer. It is in Apple's interest to create a smoother experience for potential customers because then potential customers are more likely to become actual customers.

Apple would argue it has attempted to do that by creating the soft SIM: it's trying to eliminate that bit where you have to obtain a physical thing and put it into a slot. Which is especially helpful if you're on holiday or one of those people that just travels a lot. Also it'd be one less cause of consumer inertia in picking carriers even in their own home, were the idea fully adopted.

I've no idea whether there's a subsidy involved but even if so that doesn't mean Apple hasn't done good for the consumer. In the US you get three options when starting up, one of which locks the SIM forever but the other two of which can be switched between at will depending on the latest pricing. All pricing is the same as obtaining a physical SIM. So the overall experience is better for the consumer.

Of course an even more neutral SIM would be even better, and would probably be even better for Apple too.

Hopefully Google will do something similar and the customer will benefit both from the on-device choice of carriers and from being able to pick their gatekeeper to that list. Or still being able to do the physical thing if they really want.

[BristolBachelor]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy

I have a phone that could not be more consumer friendly - I can put ANY SIM from ANY network in it and it will work. No need for anything else. No need for the manufacturer to do anything, and certainly no need for them to compile the list of who I can use.

[Chad H.]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy

But can you change networks without a moments notice, and without having to get a piece of extra hardware?

I'd rather push a button that says "I'm sick of CrappyCellCo, its time to try someone else"

Much much more customer friendly than going out and and often pay for a little hardware token that you dont know will end up being any better.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy

I'd rather push a button that says "I'm sick of CrappyCellCo, its time to try someone else"

And does that get you out of the contract? No thought not.

And what when you say "I want to to choose Tesco Mobile" Apple turn round and say, sorry device not compatible?

What about when my iDevice is broken because I thought the iOS upgrade made it waterproof and I want to bang the SIM in my old phone? Oh look I'm fucked over again.

[tony]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy

"And does that get you out of the contract?"

If you sign up for a contract theres no technical solution that can fix that, I've got two sims at the moment and changing those doesn't affect contract law.

What I do find amusing is people clutching the idea of a sim card like it's a religious object passed down from a higher being eons ago and any attempt to change that how things function around it are an act of heresy. Rather than a sim being a standard agreed upon a few years ago (90/91 iirc) which now Apple (and others) are trying to change for something they think will make things easier.

They could be wrong.

And unfortunately technology moving on makes things, like old phones, obsolete.

[SolidSquid]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy

One possible advantage of the sim card over Apples software solution is with new/uncommon carriers. If Apple doesn't support all carriers, or a new one comes along, that company will have to petition apple to add them to the start up screen. With sim cards it's a standardised format, so all a customer needs to do to use their iDevice is plug the card in

[Dan 55]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy

It's a religious object until something better comes along. Clearly this is not something better...

http://www.tmonews.com/2014/10/john-legeres-tweetstorm-on-apple-sim-in-case-you-missed-it/

Might it be better in the future? Possibly, if they were to add all operators, not charge commission to get on the operator list thus causing operators to be excluded and tariffs to be raised, and make the Apple SIM generic and standard enough to work with all devices. Oh, and operators let customers leave whenever they want. The chances of that happening are slim.

[Chad H.]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy

And does that get you out of the contract? No thought not.

Neither does changing the sim card.

What about when my iDevice is broken because I thought the iOS upgrade made it waterproof and I want to bang the SIM in my old phone? Oh look I'm fucked over again.

If you think the device is waterproof (by an upgrade), then the water could conceably damage the sim. In which case, you're not in a different place at all. If both had a SoftSim, then you simply have CellCo attach the new device.

[Handy Plough]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy

"I have a phone that could not be more consumer friendly - I can put ANY SIM from ANY network in it and it will work. No need for anything else. No need for the manufacturer to do anything, and certainly no need for them to compile the list of who I can use." I'm not struck by the lack of foresight or idiocy of this post, that much is obvious to any sentient being. No. I'm struck that, at the time of reading, there are 10 more idiots in the world that agree! That or they've agreed 'cause it against Apple, which is equally as stupid. Whomever gets rid of the sim, or however it done, should be applauded. Being able to add and remove on the fly is the height of consumer convenience.

As for the "...won't get you out of a contratct..." line of utter stupidity; ssshhhhhh, the grown ups are talking.

[druck]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy

@Handy Plough

Make that 11, and have a down vote for name calling, without addressing any of the valid concerns made in the above comments.

[Handy Plough]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy

What fucking 'valid concerns'?! BristolBachelor made a luddite like "I can haz multiuple simezez!!!1!" foamy-mouthed comment, no 'valid concerns' there, and Lost all faith... made a typical regtard reductio ad aburstum logical leap. Nope, not valid either and with a bonus logical fallacy thrown in for free. I didn't point it out in my first post 'cause I was aware of the (much needed) ad hominem. Still, nice of you to publicly declare your own idiocy. Keep that knee jerking and have a down vote back!

The only post with any merit was SolidSquid's. Totally reasoned and no mouthfoaming in sight...

[Shoot Them Later]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy

@BristolBachelor, I think you (and many others in this discussion) are missing a fundamental point here. Apple's 'soft' SIM is a physical card with the same form factor as a standard SIM, that is also software updateable for carrier selection. You can remove it and replace it with any SIM from any network and use that instead.

It adds the convenience of not having to acquire a physical card on day 1 with your new device, and as others have noted adds some interesting longer term potential, such as using software to swap between multiple carriers depending on circumstance without needing to juggle SIM cards. Because it is removable, and may be replaced with a bog standard SIM card, the consumer loses nothing here.

Now, if Apple then went a step further and changed the devices so that your only option was to use the soft sim, and baked that into their hardware in the same way they do with RAM in MacBooks now, then I would be the first to complain. And stop buying their devices.

[ThomH]

Re: Sounds like Vodafone is unhappy @BristolBachelor

You're not a huge distance from arguing that a CD player could not be more consumer friendly. The simple fact is that — with a hypothetical perfect software SIM — it would be more consumer friendly not to have to carry multiple if these things around, not to have to try to obtain them in foreign languages when you have better things to do with your only seven days in the country, to have the cross-network pricing options clearly tabulated free of marketing puff, etc.

Of course, what Apple supplies is nowhere near the hypothetical perfection. Not even close.

[Steve Davies 3]

And if Apple had gone with Vodafone?

Would EE have been saying the same thing?

Basiaclly, NIH

IMHO the actions of Vodafone seem to be very much like those of the CurrencY consortium have with ApplePay.

Love or hate Apple they do have a knack of pissing off some very big companies (Voda and Walmart etc) in their quest to shake things up. With ApplePay, I fully expect Google Wallet to gain market share as a result. Win-Win for them both.

Their insistence of no Carrier Crud on the iPhone has helped Google no end. Without their stand, Google would have had big problems selling phones with Valilla Android on them.

[g7rpo]

So how does a user change networks

Lets say I buy an air2 (retail to make things simple no contracts) and decide to put it on VF, after x amount of time I want to change to Lets say EE.

How is this done?

Do I just contact the the networks or do I have to get apple to do it?

Is there a cost for swapping?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: So how does a user change networks

Well as it said in the article - AT THE MOMENT - Vodafone is not supporting the soft SIM so to swap to Vodafone you would just pop the existing SIM out and put a Vodafone on in. However, in the future Vodafone will probably support it (as it just makes it easier for the customer and everyone else will).

[jonathanb]

Re: So how does a user change networks

You take out the Apple SIM and put the Vodafone SIM in its place. You also need to cancel the EE account, I don't know how you do that.

[Jamie Jones]

Re: So how does a user change networks

g7rpo asks a legitimate question, and gets 2 downvotes!

I naturally assumed the "..when/if VF joins the scheme" bit was implied, ah well.

[ratfox]

"We don't want it because it is too convenient for the users"

And we want them to pay for convenience.

[Ramazan]

@ratfox

MiniSIM is convenient for users, nanoSIM and softSIM aren't: you break your phone, you insert your miniSIM in another one and there you go. When your iPhone 5 starts acting strange, you dig up your trusty old RAZR V3 and what do you do? The damn iThing uses nanoSIM FFS!!! Try inserting it in RAZR to make and urgent call. Good luck.

[Chad H.]

How does a nanosim break your phone?

Softsim is very convenient for users. Hate your CellCo? Push the "Change me now" button. Done.

[SolidSquid]

Except that you're still locked into your contract with the old CellCo. Really this doesn't add much convenience to the customer, it just means Apple can make sealed units that customers can't open and third parties can't repair which can still switch networks

[Silver]

Softsim is very convenient for users. Hate your CellCo? Push the "Change me now" button. Done.

It's not very convenient if the telco you want to switch to isn't on that list.

I have no problem with soft sim cards, but unless I can change to any carrier, at any time, without needing a data connection and without having to get "permission" from one more more third parties (eg. my existing telco or Apple) then it's an inferior solution to a problem that no-one is asking to be solved.

[Anonymous Coward]

> Softsim is very convenient for users. Hate your CellCo? Push the "Change me now" button. Done.

"This button is currently inactive because you have 23 months 29 days remaining on your contract"

[Anonymous Coward]

You could just get a nanosim adapter from eBay for about 99p.

[werdsmith]

"You could just get a nanosim adapter from eBay for about 99p."

Or if you are feeling particularly flush, you could pay the extra for convenience and pick one up in Poundland.

[Dave Bell]

Feeding the Internet of Things

One of the big problems with talk of an internet of things is that mobile date coverage is still erratic in my parts of the country. I don;t know which network can provide the connection for a smart meter in this part of the world, and it can depend on which side of the house the meter is placed.

Even in rural towns, I see signs that mobile data coverage can be affected by the performance of the mobile hardware.

If this is about selling the GSMA answer, the networks are going to have to get their act together on coverage.

[Anonymous Coward]

CEO of a piss poor tax dodging network operator says he doesn't like customers to be able to swap away from his "crap network". Quelle surprise.

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this EE or Apple we are talking about?

[MrXavia]

I like physical sims, easy to change devices, easy to change networks (assuming you buy from Vodafone or CPW where the phones are usually provided unlocked)

[sianderson]

Sims

its clear that the way forward should be a device that accepts both styles of hard and soft sims then when all the other manufacturers adopt the soft sim technology then they can lose the hard sim slot,

this has been happening for years, I suppose you could argue all computers should have floppy disk drives so if the usb slot breaks you can still put a disk in and use the data on a really old computer lol

So surely the idea would be oh my phone has just been stolen (deactivate the entire device) oh hello new device configure it with the settings and away it goes, no waiting around for the network to post out a replacement SIM card that takes a few days to arrive

[Anonymous Coward]

Think it through...

How many phone numbers are you going to end up with if you can just push a button to switch networks? Or are you expecting automated porting instantaneously on the whim of an O2 customer who can't make a call and decides to switch to EE to see if it's better but then decides it's not and switches back?

It's not as easy as it sounds people, the operators would have to create a behemoth of an integrated system to allow it to work and I can't see any of them rushing into that in a hurry....