3D printed guns: This time it's for real! Oh, wait – no, still crap

So, hype notwithstanding, it's now pretty well acknowledged that you cannot in fact make a useful gun out of plastic in a consumer-grade 3D printer. But wait! Hold everything! There's a new "Bullet That Could Make 3-D Printed Guns Practical Deadly Weapons"! Holy Cow! Oh dear. The ".314 Atlas" from designer Michael Crumling …

[Anonymous Coward]

But against the backdrop of your British readership...

... who live in a controlled mostly gun-free society, how important is it then?

[Tom Wood]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

It's not. If you had the right tools and steel, you could make a metal gun, as the article says.

The whole "aarhgh this is terrible" angle to the concept of a 3D-printed plastic gun was that it wouldn't show up on x-rays at airports and suchlike, whereas a metal gun would. But if it was plasticy enough not to show up on an x-ray, it would also be useless as a gun.

[Thomas Whipp]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

even making a basic black powder isn't that hard (although it is potentially quite dangerous especially if you start wanting to grind it for a faster burn).

That said, even in the UK if you really want to buy a gun outside of the normal checks I suspect its not ridiculously hard - just very illegal.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

Buying a WW2 era souvenir might not be ridiculously difficult but getting the ammunition will be.

[Robert Helpmann??]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

Buying a WW2 era souvenir might not be ridiculously difficult but getting the ammunition will be.

Hardly, at least not in the US. I bought a .303 over 20 years ago and had no problem then. It has only gotten easier, if more expensive since that time. I have looked into other vintage weapons as well and have seen pretty much the same.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

I was referring to the UK, not the US.

[Rick Brasche]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

the 9mm cartridge the Sten used is still commonly available. Like the .22LR rimfire, there are different flavors, but you can still run your old school stuff off of ammo you bought today.

[Ian Michael Gumby]

@AC Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

"Buying a WW2 era souvenir might not be ridiculously difficult but getting the ammunition will be."

You can tell that you're a Brit and don't know much about guns or ammo.

Short answer, it depends on which gun you want to collect as a souvenir.

A Browning BAR, depending on condition, will set you back $40K or more, plus you need to be able to own a Class III weapon. The ammo? .30-06 Same today as it was back in the 20s and is plentiful.

If you want to purchase a Tommy Gun? Same thing. .45 ACP is available everywhere. Class III expensive to own.

1911? Vintage is pretty cheap and again .45ACP.

Of course if you're looking at a Japanese Rifle, I guess ammo would be hard to find, however you can always trim down your own brass and make your own lead bullets.

[Tom 13]

Re: But if it was plasticy enough not to show up on an x-ray, it would also be useless as a gun.

For purposes of the current iterations of 3D printers, what you claim is true, but it is not universally true. When Taurus first introduced one of their lines of polymer pistols there was considerable concern that because so much of it was plastic, it would not be detected by the then standard detectors. I recall a number of solutions being proposed including impregnating the polymer with iron so it would show up. Ultimately Taurus made the barrel portion from steel and that calmed down law enforcement. What I don't recall if whether the decision to use steel was completely political or to what degree it made the engineering simpler.

[Arachnoid]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

The country where only Crims and ner do wells have the guns

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

"The country where only Crims and ner do wells have the guns"

That should be ne'r do wells, if you please. Although it can also be abbreviated to SO19.

[Dr Insanity]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

SO19? I always thought Woolston was a relatively peaceful part of Hampshire?

[Vic]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

I always thought Woolston was a relatively peaceful part of Hampshire?

Errr - no, not really :-)

Vic.

[Martin-73]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

Woolston can be quite violent on a saturday night ;)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

"The country where only Crims and ner do wells have the guns"

And that fact makes me very happy. Guns only do one thing - hurt people and property - so the less we have of them in general circulation the better.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

"Guns only do one thing - hurt people and property - so the less we have of them in general circulation the better."

Guns do absolutely nothing by themselves, except rust.

When a person holds one, the gun multiplies the striking power of that person. Note that people can still strike and cause harm without the gun. Also note that while gunless people vary quite a lot in striking power, those with guns are much more equal, hence the term "equalizer."

So, when the crazed rapist breaks into your daughter's house, would it be better for him to find her cowering in a closet with a breadknife, or standing with a nice heavy shooting-iron pointed at his braincase?

And please don't attempt to argue about statistics, as they don't seem to show clear correlations between gun ownership and either murder or violent crime:

http://www.psmag.com/culture/gun-ownership-neither-increases-nor-decreases-crime-rate-55473/

[Midnight]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

And please don't attempt to argue about statistics, as they don't seem to show clear correlations between gun ownership and either murder or violent crime:

But strangely, they do show clear connections between gun ownership and accidental shootings.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715182

So, when your daughter's flatmate comes home late at night and the noise wakes her up, would it be better for him to find her cowering in a closet with a breadknife, or standing with a nice heavy shooting-iron pointed at his braincase?

[Stratman]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

Worked well for Reeva Steenkamp, didn't it.

She was well protected by her man and his big gun.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

So, when your daughter's flatmate comes home late at night and the noise wakes her up, would it be better for him to find her cowering in a closet with a breadknife, or standing with a nice heavy shooting-iron pointed at his braincase?

It should be irrelevant because:

a) he shouldn't be going into her bedroom.

b) he shouldn't be wearing a ski-mask while doing so.

c) upon seeing her pointing a cannon at his noggin, his reaction should be to freeze or retreat while identifying himself, thus eliminating the need for her to pull the trigger.

Of course, in the case of my granny, there are no flat mates - grandad died decades ago, so anyone breaking into her home after dark should rightly be considered fair game. A bread knife won't help a 90 year old woman defend herself against a 16 stone steroid muching gym bunny hopped up on crack. Nor will karate classes. A small hand gun would do the job nicely.

Alternatively, and I know it's a radical concept, we could just keep the scrote locked up after his 2nd burglary/assault/rape, rather than foist them once again upon an unwilling and largely defenceless community.

[P. Lee]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

So, when the rapist breaks into your daughter's house, who is he going to shoot? The person cowering in the closet, or the person holding the gun?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

"So, when the rapist breaks into your daughter's house, who is he going to shoot? The person cowering in the closet, or the person holding the gun?"

So your attitude is that your daughter should meekly submit to the rapist in the hope of being spared after being violently raped, rather than antagonize him by daring to show resistance when he appears?

If that is you, then the next time the cattle cars roll you will fit right in.

[Martin-73]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

I'd prefer a society free of crazed rapists with guns who break into houses.

By the way, the NRA called, they want their spiel back

[Tim Brummer]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

So you prefer only the government have all the guns. And we all know governments are always benevolent and never abuse their power.

[ElReg!comments!Pierre]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

So you prefer only the government have all the guns.

That horse you're flogging? I don't think it's just resting...

Your 9mm handgun is not going to help you much against tanks, "surgical" drones or artillery. Just so that you know.

[HKmk23]

Re: Tanks

But a lemonade bottle full of petrol with a piece of cloth for a wick will do nicely......see there is no solution. No gun ever killed anyone deliberately......only the humans who pull the trigger....so if you live in a decent law abiding society....and they do exist......you can legally own and shoot whatever guns you like to as I do.

[AndrewDH]

Re: Tanks

Modern Tanks have fire suppression specifically to counter the opponent with a bottle full of flammable liquid.

They also hunt in groups allowing each tank to observe the perimeter around the other tanks in the group making it hard to approach close enough to throw your bottle without being stopped.

Egyptian protesters used petrol bombs to some effect against their own military but they didn't destroy the tanks but forced them back and its important to note that the Egyptian army did not have orders to use maximum force, if they had the demonstrators would never have got close the Tanks in the first place.

So no having population armed with small arms isn't going to stop the US military imposing whatever the conspiracy theorists think the Federal Government want to impose.

[Joel 1]

Re: Tanks

"But a lemonade bottle full of petrol with a piece of cloth for a wick will do nicely"

Would be utter crap - most lemonade bottles are plastic, so useless for Molotov cocktails. You need a wine or beer bottle or the like... They even come with government warnings on them :-)

[JEDIDIAH]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

I'm fine with that as long as the cops are disarmed too.

They are also civilians with insufficient training or discipline to be trusted with "military weapons" if the average citizen isn't. If anything, the cops need to be de-militarized first.

[fajensen]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

The Brits invented the STEN-gun. They dropped the drawings to occupied territory for "anyone" with basic machine tools to make up these guns, which actually worked when fired in anger, on real Germans.

Those drawings are still around, probably. If all are lost, they can be worked out again. The Sten was designed to be cheap and easy to make from whatever was lying around in the scrap bin.

[Charles 9]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

And Americans liked the idea as well. They adopted a simple design of their own that became the M-3 SMG. Their main justifications were price and mass productions. At 1/10 the price of a Tommy Gun and easily made at stamping plants, it gave the troops a simple but useful arm for urban and forest combat. Later on, IIRC, they took the idea even further with a bare-bones pistol design: the original Liberator. It wasn't pretty or pretty accurate, but they were dead simple to use to the point each one came with pictorial instructions and can be dropped by the bushel to your favorite insurgent group out to topple America's Enemy of the Week.

[Ian Michael Gumby]

@Charles 9 Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

The M-3 SMG aka 'grease gun' was meant as a machine gun of last resort.

It was issued to Soldiers in the army who didn't carry a rifle as their primary weapon. E.g tank crews.

Not very accurate, but something you could use if you had to bail from your tank. Cost to manufacture was around ~$1.25 - $1.50 (In 1940's dollars)

There is really no comparison between the grease gun and the Tommy Gun.

[Catweazle666]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

*"Those drawings are still around"*

Indeed they are, Google is your friend!

[Trigonoceps occipitalis]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

... who live in a controlled mostly legally held gun-free society, how important is it then?

FTFY

Please don't spout rubbish.

[2Fat2Bald]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

Totally unimportant. If you want a gun, most people can have one (at least a shotgun) if they'll just do some admin and purchase a gun cabinet. But the Brits just generally don't seem to be that interested in owning a gun.

To be honest, interest in Gun Ownership in the UK took something of a hit after Hungerford. And then again after Dunblane. Etc.

[Catweazle666]

Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...

Yet again the myth that we British have no guns.

Out in the British countryside we have plenty of legally held guns, mostly shotguns but quite a few rifles from .22 rat guns to scoped 30.06 Remingtons.

On top of that there are the historical re-enactment societies with any number of highly serviceable weapons from muskets to Springfield rifles, and there are plenty of antique handguns which are quite legal if the ammunition is *theoretically* unavailable, such as Broomhandle Mausers and Navy Colts.

As for the illegally held stuff, there are any amount, freely available if you know where to look.

[graeme leggett]

3D barrel with pretend rifling

If that can't imparts spin to the bullet then is effectively a short barrelled smoothbore?

Close to a sawn-off?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: 3D barrel with pretend rifling

We used to make "guns" like this ourselves (when I lived in less gun controlled country). Pipe with 9mm bore is not that difficult to come by, neither are 9mm cartridges. The rest is trivial if you have access to metalworking equipment.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: 3D barrel with pretend rifling

When I was in the cadets we were able to buy 9mm blank ammunition without a license, is that still possible in the UK?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: 3D barrel with pretend rifling

In the UK a British Citizen (who isn't prevented by laws affecting criminals) is able to legally buy blanks in .22 short, .22LR, 8mm, 9mm, .303, 5.56mm, 7.62mm, 12 Gauge (Shotgun) and a few other sizes, which are all available without a licence.

The powder grain size is all wrong if you want to turn them into live rounds.

Perversely, you cannot buy primers without a licence - unless they are already in blanks....

[Eddy Ito]

Re: 3D barrel with pretend rifling

What he has made is a tiny smoothbore muzzle loading cannon that has its lock work provided by another piece of equipment. The only difference between what he has made and these little fellas is that he has machined a standard primer pocket into the back end which necessitates a striker and 3D printed a cradle to temporarily hold both the striker and cannon.

[xperroni]

Re: 3D barrel with pretend rifling

Crumling's offering does look kinda cute in its own way, though. Of course I mean the cartridge, not that horrible plastic contraption trying to pass itself off as a gun.

[hplasm]

Has WiRED

Had their coffee supply cut off recently, or have they just started spouting weird crap?

[Not That Andrew]

Re: Has WiRED

Dunno, IMO they've always been like this, getting overexcited about nothing much.

[Gene Cash]

Re: Has WiRED

They're now pretty much the digital "Popular Science" - the articles are mostly breathlessly described flying cars AND HOW IT WILL CHANGE MODERN LIFE. Any semblance of journalism left the house long, long ago.

[Horridbloke]

Re: Has WiRED

I gave up on WiRED some years ago after reading about someone running OS X on their iPhone. In fact they were just running a VNC client (that somebody else had written) but that distinction was too subtle for the author of the article.

[Jim 59]

Re: Has WiRED

Show me somebody excited about 3D printing, and I will show a person who has never been on a factory floor and seen things being made. Tell them to watch a few episodes of How it's Made

[Tom 13]

Re: Show me somebody excited about 3D printing

Just because it isn't currently useful for making guns and seems to us to be favored by geeks who still live in their mother's basement to make minatures for their war gaming clubs doesn't mean there aren't areas that exciting and useful. For instance:

http://3dprintingindustry.com/medical/

[wikkity]

Re: How it's Made

> Show me somebody excited about 3D printing

Ok, I am. I've worked in a (car) factory, many years ago, I'm also reasonably familair with how many other things are made. Are you suggesting that once someone knows how something is made the urge to make stuff disappears. Maybe all those here who like tinkering away with a soldering iron should stop as fab labs can print straight to silicon?

I can assume that that you have never at to fork out £25+ for a simple bit of molded plastic that your £1000 power tool won't work without? Assuming the part is still stocked that is, even though spare part availablity is a big factor when buying expensive tools there always seems to be a few bespoke parts that are hard to find 10 years down the line.

Anyway, a factory is well out of my price range to make stuff I want, so in the mean time while I'm waiting for 32 printing quality to improve/price to come down I'll continue to persue my hobbies by making things in a time consuming manner or using saved searches on ebay for spare parts as I do now.

[Jim 59]

Re: How it's Made

Are you suggesting that once someone knows how something is made the urge to make stuff disappears

Obviously not. I think 3D printing will find a valid place in society sooner or later. But the conceptual limitations will make that place a small one. It is the job of strategy boutiques to de-emphasize these limitations in investors' minds, in order to secure more investment. Fair play to them. But I am not a strategist, I am an engineer. And I will not be investing at this point.

Maybe all those here who like tinkering away with a soldering iron should stop as fab labs can print straight to silicon?

Tinkering and hobbyism is great. Any hobbyist should buy and enjoy 3D printers to the fullest extent possible. For recreation and discovery. But not for business. Okay let me rephrase: 3D printing at home might be exciting, in the same way as building a cat's-whisker radio is. I was delighted with my cat's-whisker, and all my bread-board creations. But I never went around saying it is better than an iPhone and people should invest in my cat's whisker company.

I can assume that that you have never at to fork out £25+ for a simple bit of molded plastic that your £1000 power tool won't work without? Assuming the part is still stocked that is, even though spare part availablity is a big factor when buying expensive tools there always seems to be a few bespoke parts that are hard to find 10 years down the line.

I have just forked out £22 for three plastic gazebo joints that prob. cost 10p each to manufacture. 3D printing would have had the tolerance for this, and finish doesn't matter. But it would probably not have had the strength or material properties. And as my gazebo is 10 years old, I was lucky to get the part, let alone a 3D printing data for it. And if I got the data or copied it illegally from another part, why should the owner give me that for free ? The design is valuable property, rightly protected by law. A gazebo joint might be a small, humble part, but somebody, somewhere put alot of engineering thought into it and somebody owns the design.

[werdsmith]

Gazebo Joint?

Gazebo Joint AKA gaffer tape.

[Rick Brasche]

Re: Has WiRED

hey, I'm excited about 3D printing because my apartment does not wire 220 3 phase nor can it handle the weight of a Bridgeport. But a decent sized 3D printer will run off of 110V 15A and fit on a small desk.

Plus, with some new filaments Ive heard of, a 3D printer can produce all the weird gaskets, O rings, and rubber bits I'm always losing/breaking when working on cars, Nerf guns, plumbing parts, you name it.

Excited or concerned about 3D printed guns, that's a whole other story. I do like the idea of doing some really cool models of anime or movie firearms tho. The Dalek tommy gun from a new Who episode comes to mind.

[DropBear]

Re: Has WiRED

While I share the sentiment that 3D printing currently is way less useful in general terms than the zealots would have you believe, I did see an (admittedly very niche) application where it is indeed very useful even today: people working on restorations or in any similar field where casting metal is required can use it to produce casting patterns of arbitrary complexity in a relatively short time (compared to having to fabricate it traditionally), easily iterating over variations if necessary. It makes a world of difference...

[theOtherJT]

Re: Has WiRED

This is why 3D printers were referred to as "Rapid Prototyping Machines" about 20 years ago when they were only really found in the R&D departments of various well funded and high tech companies. Sure, you couldn't make a useful part out of resin, but you could make a mold for the part, or a mock up of the part to fit to the rest of the machine just so you can get the spacing and tolerances right whilst waiting for the real thing to be ready.

[NeverMindTheBullocks]

Don't see the problem

Anyone dumb enough to try and use one of these is more likely to kill themselves than anyone else, thus removing themselves from the gene pool. Job Done.

[Heisenberg]

Re: Don't see the problem

Sadly I suspect it would be knobhead's mate or little brother/sister who copped it in the head or neck...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Don't see the problem

Sadly I suspect it would be knobhead's mate or little brother/sister who copped it in the head or neck...

That still removes some of the faulty genes from the gene pool so it's not a total loss.

I honestly wonder if there is so little to report these days that everything has to be reported in this "OH MY GOD LOOK AT THIS THE WORLD IS ENDING" style. Yawn.

[Stratman]

Re: Don't see the problem

From the article, it seems standing in front of it isn't that dangerous and standing behind it is likely to seriously damage the shooter.

What's not to like?

[DropBear]

Remarkably clear and eloquent summary of the reasons the "3D-printed gun" hype is nonsense. Like++...

[mark 63]

eloquent summary

seconded.

I especially liked: " very difficult to overstate the unimportance of Mr Crumling's invention".

[Destroy All Monsters]

/k/ is calling and wants its educational rants back!

guns are actually relatively simple machines

I think I am not mistaken in the belief that they are one the most lovingly honed and exceedingly titivated simple machines, too.

Right up there with muscle cars and high-maintenance women.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: /k/ is calling and wants its educational rants back!

Right up there with muscle cars and high-maintenance women.

Although anyone sane will very much avoid calling the latter "simple" within hearing distance ..

[Destroy All Monsters]

Re: /k/ is calling and wants its educational rants back!

Of course. Standard range safety etc.

[Badvok]

Plastic + Adhesive + Ceramic = Composite = Strength of Steel

When they start increasing the resolution of the printers and allowing the mixing of ceramics with adhesives and plastics then we can start worrying: see http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071004143114.htm

[Hope Spirals]

Re: Plastic + Adhesive + Ceramic = Composite = Strength of Steel

Commercial 3D printers can supply parts in a variety of materials including ceramic and metal. Their websites also detail the physical/mechanical properties - including manufacturing tolerances, which may be more of an issue.

I wouldn't fancy firing such a weapon if the barrel was 'just a bit tight'.

I'm not saying this makes the idea of a 3D printed gun any more viable. A blade of some sort is more likely. Non metallic, it could be built into something harmless using 3D's ability to make fully enclosed parts and broken out when required.

[Stevie]

Re: Plastic + Adhesive + Ceramic = Composite = Strength of Steel

Yesyesyes, but ceramics must be baked in a kiln, not half-baked in a printer that uses weed-whacker wire.

[Mephistro]

Yes, Lewis, but...

- Making a whole weapon using 'the right materials' takes lots of ability and very specialised knowledge and tools, and is really difficult and time consuming. Making only the barrel -from some standard tubing- and some other pieces -e.g firing pin and cartridge retainer and expeller- is orders of magnitude easier and needs very standard tools -a lathe,a press drill and an electric welding kit- which are in common use by many different kinds of hobbyists.

- A non-rifled barrel makes it really difficult to hit something at more than twenty meters, but most shootings happen at far closer range. Agreed, none of these guns will be used for sniping, but at close range a shotgun type weapon is something to be taken very seriously.

- These weapons are really difficult to track. The only way to do so would be through the marks in the rifling made by the lathe, and then comparing said marks with different lathes. But the lathe marks change over time, whenever the machine is adjusted and drills and other parts swapped.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Yes, Lewis, but...

Sorry, that just doesn't wash. Anyone who really wants to create a weapon that works will not bother with a 3D print, they'll find a way of buying one that is less likely to main or kill the user as well, and everything else has already been done without a 3D printer. As for traceability, a weapon from a dodgy source will not point at you to start with.

I have come round to liking these articles, though. They're a bit like those subtly changed online recipes for explosive things that will blow up when you try them, insofar that they are more likely to harm the idiot who tries them. I have no real problem with that.

As far as I can tell, about the only weapons related thing you could usefully print is a grip...

[Eddy Ito]

Re: Yes, Lewis, but...

Have a look at wikipedia's improvised firearm page and the pdf Expedient Homemade Firearms. The basics are pretty simple.

[Stevie]

Re: takes lots of ability and very specialised knowledge and tools

But gosh, wasn't the trusty Sten Gun made out of a bit of drainpipe and whatever else came to hand?

[Seret]

I'm an ex-armourer I agree wholeheartedly with the technical details of what Lewis has written here. Firearms have been using plastic for ages, but only for parts of the furniture and when they do it's proper engineering grade plastic. Plastic 3D printed guns ain't happening.

[Vladimir Plouzhnikov]

This is a wonderful idea!

A gun that shoots the shooter in the face. Especially a moron who would attempt to shoot it "gangster"-style, that is - turned sideways.

I believe that police forces should disseminate this gun among the criminal elements as widely as possible. The gun crime will go down to zero in no time at all.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: This is a wonderful idea!

Swift change of headline. 3D-printed hand grenade! The next phantom menace.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: This is a wonderful idea!

Now, that might actually work. One could print a hollow shell to hold the ball-bearings in ;-)

When I was a teenager, we would amuse ourselves by cooking up various kinds of explosives from readily available materials (as the guidebook say) and usually set them off in a gravel pit - although the local stream still have a kink in it from the 5 kg barrel of gunpowder that "went off" in it, this was after we figured out electrical ignition.

"Chemistry of Powder and Explosives" and the "C.I.A. Improvised XXX-series" were Gold back then: Teenagers learning English and Chemistry ...

[paulc]

Re: This is a wonderful idea!

the design has been modified to divert the case off to the side...

[Tom 13]

@paulc

So it's now a great gun for the staged show where the sequined cowboy can shoot two targets with one shot?

[William Towle]

Re: This is a wonderful idea!

> A gun that shoots the shooter in the face

Or,

"I got the chance to 3d-print a gun the other day. It came out portrait rather than landscape ... talk about shooting yourself in the foot!"

(heard on radio recently)

[Jim 59]

Gun

As the "gun" actually blows off the user's arm, you might as well just hold the barrel in your hand and hit it with a small hammer.

One day a printable gun might happen, just like plastic kettles happened. Murderers will then be able to print their own guns, leaving a comprehensive evidence trail all over the internet and their PC.

[John Galt]

Here's how a rational attempt behaves

FWIW

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/11/04/warfairy-charon-3d-printed-ar15-lower/

A set of G-code files for a proper gun made from common stock materials would be far more meaningful than the plastic fantasy crap. CNC machine tools are in the same price range as plastic 3D printers.

Good 3D printed guns (e.g. the sintered stainless steal 1911) are possible, but only as a stunt. Production costs and labor are ridiculously high relative to normal production processes.

[John Sturdy]

Re: Here's how a rational attempt behaves

Yes, publishing a file for use with CNC mills and lathes is more of a threat, but I don't think that the home-priced mills are up to the accuracy required. So you'd need fairly pricy equipment; but the G-code files would reduce the skill needed.

[Danny 14]

Re: Here's how a rational attempt behaves

denford do some very cheap second hand machines, quite accurate providing you spend money on the bits.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Here's how a rational attempt behaves

They made the Colt 45 1911 A1 and the Thomson Machine Guns in volume a long time before CNC even existed. Drill press, Lathe, Files, Patience - is what it takes.

[Boris the Cockroach]

Re: Here's how a rational attempt behaves

G-code files reduce the skill needed?

Excuse me while I fall off my perch laughing.

To setup a CNC machine to make your bits takes a bit more than a G-code file and 5 mins bolting a chunk of metal to a machine bed.

After all, installing windows is a matter of slapping the disc in the tray and pressing reboot.......

But if your aim is to make a gun that can be fired once, then yes , it takes no skill to machine the parts and hope the act of firing does'nt blow your hand off, leaving your potential victim able to point and go 'ha ha'

If your hope is to reuse said firearm after firing (and this includes still having a hand to hold it with), then you need some skill at machining stuff to be able to do it, whether or not you've got a G-code file

[Destroy All Monsters]

Re: Here's how a rational attempt behaves

Can one actually mill a barrel? I though these are made via hammering from a hot billet?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Here's how a rational attempt behaves

Some barrels are formed (by hammering) over a Mandrel (e.g., Russian AK barrels).

Some barrels are turned on a lathe, drilled, and then rifled,

Very few barrels are made in the U.K.

Technically, it's a Barrel Blank until it's been chambered, which doesn't require a licence in the U.K. - I wouldn't like to risk it though, especially if it was .22 calibre..

[a well wisher]

To quote ....

"I'll give you my gun when you pry this lump of 3d molten plastic from my cold, dead hands"

[Frankee Llonnygog]

Re: To quote ....

- smoking, hot, mangled, pulpy, fingerless hands, surely?

[Frankee Llonnygog]

Foolproof gun!

This is the first truly idiot proof gun - it doesn't matter whether you point it towards or away from yourself

[The First Dave]

Re: Foolproof gun!

That reminds me of a wonderful truism about the pistol supplied to officers in the British Army in the 70's, 80's and 90's - lethal range: 25m

Handgrenade: lethal range:35m, so if you really want to kill the enemy best to just hold a pineapple and walk towards them...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Foolproof gun!

I suspect that they meant accurate range rather than lethal range for the pistol, the Browning Hi Power as I recall.

[ElReg!comments!Pierre]

Re: Foolproof gun!

if you really want to kill the enemy best to just hold a pineapple and walk towards them

Then there's the rumour that pretends officer pistols are not designed to be shot at the enemy...

[King Jack]

Printed Metal

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/first-ever-metal-3d-printed-gun-manufactured-in-the-us-8932953.html

This printed gun is the real deal. Forget plastic.

[Destroy All Monsters]

Re: Printed Metal

Too expensive though.

I will just drive down to SerbiaRump UkraineBelgium and ask around for the real deal.

And that hooky side article title: "'We must stop this YouTube pick-up artist sexually assaulting women on the street'". I laughed because 'Not your personal army' applies.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Printed Metal

I will just drive down to SerbiaRump UkraineBelgium and ask around for the real deal.

I'm presently just about 5 km from the local FN factory. Must wander in there one day (not that I suspect that will be *that* easy but it's worth a shot, if you pardon the pun)

[frank ly]

Techie/Legal stuff

" ... There is a notional plastic barrel in Crumling's accompanying 3D-printed "gun" as well, with pretend rifling to comply with US gun law, ..."

Can anyone explain that bit please? This is the sort of detail that fascinates me, for some reason.

[ElectricRook]

Re: Techie/Legal stuff

I he had made a smooth bore gun with a barrel length of less than 16 inches it could be proved he had manufactured a sawed off shotgun, which is a violation of US federal law.

[Chris Miller]

In the Line of Fire

In this (rather good) thriller Clint Eastwood plays the (oldest living) secret service agent, and John Malkovich as his nemesis builds an undetectable gun from epoxy. I realise that suspension of disbelief is required, but I wondered if it might be possible to 'print' a plastic gun and then use it as a mould for some similar substance. The epoxy I'm familiar with is probably too viscous to mould in this way, but could this be feasible?

Paris, because she probably knows as much about guns as I do.

[Arachnoid]

Q

Would probably disguise the short metal riffled barrel as part of a Parker pen to get through security

[Mike Moyle]

Not a perfect solution, but...

If one just wanted a one-off: while quite expensive these days, GyroJet ammunition can occasionally still be found. Being recoilless and not requiring rifling -- while, admittedly, introducing their OWN set of problems -- rocket cartridges seem as though they would be go some way towards making printed plastic handguns viable.

[Destroy All Monsters]

Re: Not a perfect solution, but...

GyroJets? These go best with teleportation plates when you want to off somebody. And hiking boots.

[lawndart]

Re: Not a perfect solution, but...

Probably not a bad idea to have a backup weapon in the form of a water pistol filled with alcohol too.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Not a perfect solution, but...

Several copies of "The Big Issue" seem to scare most people away...

[harmjschoonhoven]

Re: water pistol

Better: have two water pistols as backup, one filled with a solution of sodium monosulfide and one with a mild organic acid.

[PhilBuk]

DAM @Re: Not a perfect solution, but...

And some ice if you want to get away with it.

Phil.

[Ron Christian]

think out of the box

Seems to me that converting the ammo to something like the old Gyrojet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet) might solve the pressure issues and may allow a 3d printed frame, chamber and barrel to work. The problem, of course, would be in acquiring the ammunition.

[Anonymous Coward]

The really cool part

is when the gun is first fired and it blows up taking the person's head off. This tends to help eliminate the ass clowns in the world. It's a do-it-yourself Darwinism kit.

[IvyKing]

Correction on cartridge case strength requirements

While Lew is correct in stating that the case walls do not need to contain firing pressure, the case head is a different story as it isn't fully supported in many guns.

[MarkSitkowski]

3D printed "Gun"?

The only bits the 3D printer made are the handle and case. What looks like a cartridge is, in fact, the barrel, with the bullet halfway inside. He's made a gun without a firing pin - which he went out and bought. There was a kid in my class at school, who used to fire rifle bullets from a vice, by hitting the percussion cap with a nail and hammer. Probably a lot safer, and more accurate.

[DrM]

Zip Guns

A good article. Yes, 3D Printers still can't print guns. Only the people who need to be shown the picture of a cartridge and told the copper part flies down the barrel ever seem to buy into this.

For some reason, printing a gun is the peak-evil use task the mind comes up with. Like an atom-printer could make TNT, an atom-assembler could make Plutonium. Yet, the current 3-D printers have absolutely no functionality needed in making a gun. The only thing plastic on most guns are the grips. "Polymer" frame guns are popular, but they are made from some seriously high pressure injection moldings as strong as steel.

However, The Big Picture -- can Joe Blow make a gun in his basement? Yes, has been able to for hundreds of years. These days it might be called a "Zip Gun", see Wikipedia. You just need a tube, some tube. You stick a cartridge in it, put a cap over the end. Hole in the cap, a nail into the hole. Big rubber band to pull back and hit the nail, fire the gun. You're done. Do anything that looks like rifling in the tube -- you're legal (in USA). Could even make them and sell them.

Ah, but a 3D printer can make a frame with grips? No, too soft. Buy a cap pistol, use it. The cost a bit less than a 3D printer.

[Anonymous Coward]

gun musing

wouldn't it be more useful in producing the support parts for a man portable rail-gun (aka needle gun) of course there is the problem of he electro-magnets but Some Assembly Is Required?

[Jonny99]

no records check?

haha! good article - and funny stuff as usual. But what do you mean "in many cases without so much as a criminal records check"? Our laws do require that gun sales only take place after a criminal records check. it was required in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993.

[Mike Moyle]

Re: no records check?

In many states, private transfers (e.g., transfers within a family, sales not involving a licensed dealer, etc.) and sales at gun shows don't require the background check.

[Stevie]

Bah!

"Ignites the propellant which burns quickly, generating heat which is transferred to the now-gaseous molecules of the propellant gas, exciting their motion to many times that demanded by ambient heat and Brownian Motion requirements such that their molecular vibrations cause them, when they collide, to transfer large amounts of energy into the so-called translational mode, making them move across space very quickly in what, to the macroscopic observer is manifested as an increase in pressure..."

Fixed the lamentable lapse into common-or-garden speech for you Lewis.

I love this design improvement that calls for the firer to lose an eye (as well as possibly one or both hands).

This whole printable gun thing should have a wonderful side-effect when I start writing to congressmen telling them that they can buy a 3D printer of their own from Dremel (respected American tool maker though the printer is a rebranded SourceForge model I'm told). Works "out of the box" apparently and looks really good on a desk.

Thus they can try these magnificent expressions of the Second and Fourth Amendments in the comfort of their own offices.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Sooner or later, it'll happen. And I'm not worried.

Look, let's face some facts here.

Anyone with machining skills and supplies can build a gun. Not just "a" gun, mind you, not just a crappy zip-gun. Something along the lines of the UK's own Sten gun, or the Greasegun of my homeland.

If it was good enough to arm front-line soldiers being sent to war against the Nazis and Imperial Japanese, it's definitely going to be overwhelming against your average street cop, especially as even very old firearm designs are fully able to take advancement of munitions development that has taken place in the intervening 70+ years. (Just so long as you respect the weapon pressure tolerances if you're thinking of using +P rounds. Or you can beef up the mechanism with sturdier metal.)

And the thing about the Sten gun and weapons like it is that you don't need a complex armaments factory to build them, either. Or, indeed, a proper factory of any sort:

Norwegian resistance fighters built Sten guns right under the noses of the Nazi regime.

Danish resistance fighters did so, too, producing 200 in a bicycle repair shop alone, to say nothing of the other workshops, greater and smaller.

Polish resistance fighters started building them on their own, again, right under the Nazi's noses, some of which were of superior design and construction to the ones actually being built in the UK.

For an ironic twist, the Germans themselves manufactured about 28,000, though exactly why they did this is unclear, given that they had all the captured Sten guns they could ever want for espionage and false flag operations. Probably doesn't really count, though, since Mauser was making them.

And more, too, it's a very easy gun to copy and modify, apparently. And yet, you don't often see criminal groups armed with hand-made submachineguns.

That's why I'm not worried. All told, it's just too much hassle for crims to bother with. Will there come a day when you can simply manufacture a firearm in your own home? That day came 70+ years ago, bare minimum. Even with advances in desktop manufacturing technology and firearms technology, it's still going to be too much of a bother for most people who have malevolent intent at heart, even should miracletech like desktop nanofabrication or personal replicators come into being.

(Also, if personal replicators or desktop nanofabbing come into being, then I would expect that medical science should have advanced to the point where being shot in the head isn't game over, greatly reducing the impact of persons of unkind intent being able to manufacture a gun in their own home. To say nothing of the fact that person of ill intent would need to think hard on the fact that if they can make a gun that easily, so can anyone else.)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Sooner or later, it'll happen. And I'm not worried.

The big bug-a-boo isn't the idea of a homemade gun. It's the idea of a homemade NONMETALLIC gun. As in the untraceable zip gun that can get past metal detectors and such and be used to pull off assassinations from 10 meters or so with absolutely no way to tell you have it until it's too late. As in "shot heard around the world" import that can be considered an existential threat to any peace (or war)-loving country. As of present, there's no practical device capable of pulling this off at a standoff distance of at least ten meters, but this raises the prospect: not now, but down the road. Bows are too big to conceal at that distance and explosives too unpredictable at that distance.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, I've got a MUCH better idea. Just take a bullet, lay it on a desk and hit the back of it with a hammer. Seems like it would be just as safe and accurate.

Or even, take this bullet, hold it in your hand, and hit the back with a hammer.

You don't even NEED a 3D printer for that!

Honestly, printing a gun with a 3D printer isn't very creative. If you wanted to make a weapon using plastic then it's probably time to just come up with something other than "printing" a glock. There are far easier and cheaper ways to cause mayhem. A lot of which won't result in you personally getting hurt.

[Anonymous Coward]

Making firearms isn't an issue...

it's making the ammunition safely and consistently that's the problem.

[Vociferous]

The solution is rockets.

Rockets don't have recoil, don't need rifling, don't need steel barrels. 3D print a tube and fire rockets instead of bullets. Hell, you can even 3D-print the rockets.

[Stevie]

Re: The solution is rockets.

But gosh, wasn't that how the monumentally unfit-for-purpose Gyrojet pistol worked?