Huawei ditches new Windows Phone mobe plans, blames poor sales

Huawei - the planet’s third biggest shifter of smartphones - has abandoned plans to build more devices based on Windows due to slower than expected sales. This is a blow to Microsoft and its much-maligned Windows 8 operating system, which now has to rely on Nokia and other lower-ranked mobe makers to trade its wares. Huawei …

[dogged]

“The biggest problem is that Windows is not easy to develop independently on this platform. A lot of things are defined by Windows; they [Microsoft] leave [a] very small space for vendors to develop,” he told El Reg.

You are only allowed Microsoft's fuckups. No adding your own fuckups.

Whether this is good or bad depends on how much you like Touchwiz.

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't seem like that's the position of most OEMs:

http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsoft-14-new-oems-more-22-windows-phone-devices-announced-last-few-months

[AMBxx]

MS are just being strict about installing crapware. Good job too.

[0laf]

This was a pleasant surprise with my Lumia. It did come with some crapware but I could remove all of it without needing to resort to rooting it.

[phil dude]

symbian...

And yet my SYMBIAN phone (N8) got M$ cruft (Office something, cloud/sky something? ) installed as soon as they bought Nokia - and you can't remove it unless you root the phone.

Lumia looks like beautiful hardware, if only it would run something less straightjackety...

P.

[Davidoff]

And yet my SYMBIAN phone (N8) got M$ cruft

"And yet my SYMBIAN phone (N8) got M$ cruft (Office something, cloud/sky something? ) installed as soon as they bought Nokia - and you can't remove it unless you root the phone."

Your N8 got MS software because YOU INSTALLED IT! It doesn't come onto your phone by itself! So if you have software you don't want the you only have zourself to blame!

And no, uninstalling it doesn't require "rooting" your phone (which is something you do with Android devices).

And btw, these MS programs were already available long before MS bough Nokia's phone division (MS did *not* buy Nokia). Have you just awaken from a long coma by any chance?

[Anonymous Coward]

And pretty much all Android devices are the same (not that you get the same level of crapware on decent Androids).

All you have to do is:

(unless it's an essential system service)

Settings, Apps, Built In Apps, Disable.

Job done. Sure it might still be taking up a few hundred Kb of space, but it's disabled, and there are no launcher icons, so for all intents and purposes, it's removed.

[DrXym]

"Settings, Apps, Built In Apps, Disable."

It's still taking up space and the power of the default means most people won't do this.

"Job done. Sure it might still be taking up a few hundred Kb of space, but it's disabled, and there are no launcher icons, so for all intents and purposes, it's removed."

It's better than nothing. It would be better yet if the phone actually ASKED on a factory reset if you wanted to fetch certain partner software from the Play store or the manufacturer's website and if you said no, that would be the end of the matter.

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you

Root a windows phone?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Can you

Root a windows phone?

Windows doesn't have a root user.

[Anonymous Coward]

No one's bothered making crapware for windows phones, it's just not worth it.

[DrXym]

"MS are just being strict about installing crapware. Good job too."

Nokia phones are full of crapware but you can uninstall it which is a good thing.

But Microsoft having total control of the user experience and system specifications which doesn't leave as much room for the handset maker to make their product distinct from their competitor's.

[DrXym]

I should add that even Google is locking down the user experience these days. Their so-called Android Silver phones look like their response to fragmentation and as a way of shutting rivals like Facebook out of handsets.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's more a problem for the OEMs than the consumer.

But yes, the rigid specifications don't help.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nokia phones are full of crapware but you can uninstall it

And be left with an embarrassing phone without an OS?

[Anonymous Coward]

To us it's crapware - to non-techs, it's extra features.

[Indolent Wretch]

Yeah they insist on you installing their crapware

[Big Van Vader]

"MS are just being strict about installing crapware. Good job too.".....they don't need to install crapware....their WP Store is full of it

http://www.howtogeek.com/194993/the-windows-store-is-a-cesspool-of-scams-why-doesnt-microsoft-care/

[Ken Darling]

An announcement...

doesn't mean those phones will make it to market.

I proudly announce myself to be the President of the United Kingdom of England, Wales, and Northern Ireland.

Doesn't mean a thing.

[Daniel B.]

MS shilltrolls detected

Oh dear, is MS this worried now? The shills are out in full force *and* manage to get first comment thread.

Announcements from OEMs are just that, just like MS's announcement that they would keep the Nokia X initiative.

Truth is, nobody wants Windows on their phones. Elop managed to shit on Nokia's phone division and MS is going to finish the job. At least the rest of Nokia managed to survive, unlike other companies burned by MS (Palm, Sendo).

[RyokuMas]

Re: MS shilltrolls detected

I'm more amazed that it took the opposing FUD-spreaders as long as it did to pick up on this thread - approximately seven hours of rational discussion about something Microsoft-related without someone screaming "shill!" is pretty good... but I guess it's inevitable in the end.

Is it too much to ask to actually debate the merits and flaws of different mobile operating systems and without the brainless jihadists from all sides getting involved?

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft paying OEMs $2.6B in "support" payments

'Eldar Murtazin .. reports Microsoft (MSFT) will be making $2.6B in "support" payments .. to OEM partners in 2014 to compel them to make one Windows Phone apiece.' ref

[mathew42]

How likely is it that Huawei are worried by Microsoft owning Nokia and being second in line for information and continually squeezed, especially if they have no way to differentiate?

Google enables Huawei to go after the higher volume lower end market by choosing which trade-offs they wish to make to appeal to a particular market segment.

All vendors need to be careful with the preference that many are showing for vanilla Android UI. The open source nature of Android also means that Huawei are not

[TheVogon]

"How likely is it that Huawei are worried by Microsoft owning Nokia"

Zero likely seeing as Microsoft do not own Nokia and have no known plans to do so. My Nokia shares are doing quite well :-).

[Anonymous Coward]

They now own (what used to be) Nokia's mobile division. As a shareholder, regular MS troll, and ex MS employee, I thought you'd have been aware of that.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Whether this is good or bad depends on how much you like Touchwiz."

It is probably actually good for Microsoft. After all they make a profit out of Android handsets....

[Marvin O'Gravel Balloon Face]

Fair play to them - they gave it a go - it didn't work out. Sounds to me like they found the whole experience frustrating as hell. As a user, I can sympathise.

[Anonymous Coward]

Political more than commercial

Abandoning WP is a daft idea from Huawei if on purely commercial grounds, because it gives them less of a stick to wave at Google, should that be necessary, and fewer short term options should they need them. Development costs for WP would be negligible in the context of the circa $5bn R&D budget.

This seems more like a strategic and political choice at the behest of the Chinese government. Just as with the "competition" probe into MS Office/WIndows, this is simply part of the long dragged out game surrounding XP and options for moving to W7, which seem from the outside to be essentially about the price China wants to pay for W7, and the price Microsoft want to be paid for W7. I suppose it also could include things that neither party will publicly discuss, like backdoors, surveillance, default search engines).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Political more than commercial

So - you think that the simple explanation that Huawei are telling the truth is unlikely? It seems reasonable enough to me. Samsung can come up with things like the Note Edge, which they can't do with Windows. Huawei wants to expand which means more product variants. If the choice is between reskinning Android to create a physically "different" product, or producing a Windows variation of an existing device, it's obvious which is more attractive.

[Hairy Spod]

Re: Political more than commercial

I wonder if this means that their licencing agreement agreement to pay Microsoft royalties for the patents it holds for Android is up for renewal?

OK Mr mister Microsoft we'll make another phone with your OS on it if we dont have to pay you quite as much for the ones we make that dont.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Political more than commercial

Hairy Spod....That's kind of backwards?

They will make more if they don't have to pay the license cost. So they are not making any more, so have to pay the license?????

[Hairy Spod]

Re: Political more than commercial

No, not really, loosing support from manufacturer can never be a good thing. Especially if its more important to Microsoft for them to be seen as visible and viable provider phone OS than it is cash in on a few patents. I believe the HTC may have done something very similar.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Political more than commercial

The real paradox is that the Windows Phone OS is free for many OEMs now, but you have to pay Microsoft protection money to use Android.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Political more than commercial

"but you have to pay Microsoft protection money to use Android."

And usually to Nokia and Apple as well...

[mathew42]

Re: Political more than commercial

> Abandoning WP is a daft idea from Huawei if on purely commercial grounds, because it gives them less of a stick to wave at Google

It is barely shorter stick considering that Huawei have the option of open source Android (e.g. CyanogenMod) or Tizen platform (supported by Intel) plus the potential of discounts from Google for not selling Windows Phone.

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Political more than commercial

By your logic they should also be working on Symbian, Tizen and Sailfish phones.

The argument is less directly financial as resources: good phone engineers are in limited supply; and, as Nokia showed, differing product focuses make it much harder for an overall strategy. What would make those phones, whichever OS, distinctively Huawei?

Your conspiracy theory is even less convincing.

[Roo]

Re: Political more than commercial (wrong end of the stick there Led)

"Abandoning WP is a daft idea from Huawei if on purely commercial grounds, because it gives them less of a stick to wave at Google,"

The problem for Huawei is they were holding the shitty end of the stick, the one with low sales revenues and no reason to believe that the turd coating will spontaneously transform the entire stick into solid gold.

[JimmyPage]

Just as my phone got 8.1

Which is quite a leap from 8.0 But which adds one thing I have wanted for years.

"WiFi Sense" which effectively automates logging in to the myriad of free WiFi APs you collect after a while that always need your email address when you move to a new one (O2 I'm looking at you).

The *only* downside about WP is lack off apps. It actually pisses all over Android (which *still* hasn't sorted out it's Bluetooth integration yet - 2 years after I complained that it still hadn't sorted it's bluetooth integration out).

In this case, very happy to be a ------------------>

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Just as my phone got 8.1

Still waiting for it on T-Mobile in the US. A bit disappointing from a company that is trying to make it out that consumers are better off with an "un-Carrier" than a traditional carrier! Instead it's providing Verizon style service, without Verizons network coverage :-(

[king of foo]

Re: Just as my phone got 8.1

Eh? I'll admit that 8.1 is pretty good, but so is KitKat. When comparing like for like there isn't a great deal of difference if you ignore the fanboyism. Personally I favour android but that doesn't mean I wouldn't get something else next time I change my phone.

What is this Bluetooth integration you speak of? The only Bluetooth I use is when connecting to the parrot in my car, and I've had no issues with that.

I'm surprised more OEM's haven't told ms where to stick their mobile os after what they've done with surface and Nokia. What ms should fear now is not the shift from desktops and laptops to tablets and phones but rather the android invasion from tablets and phones to laptops and desktops! Their current strategy does exactly nothing to address this and the total lack of "sameness" from XP to 8.x and the ribbonisation means users are left wondering "wtf how do I use this" which plays right into the hands of the competition. They just haven't capitalised on this. The #1 reason for sticking with windows is continuity and ms have "pissed all over" that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Just as my phone got 8.1

My experience is the exact opposite. Bluetooth works perfectly on my Nexus5, and supports all the latest profiles, including AVRCP 1.4

The last Windows Phone I tried was absolutely hopeless, it couldn't even manage to stream audio to a basic bluetooth speaker without stuttering, cutting out, dropping connection and finally spontaneously rebooting the phone.

That goodness it was a free review unit (a Microsoft bribe in the hope of a good review), as it went in the bin, and I went back to my trusty Nexus5.

[Marvin O'Gravel Balloon Face]

Re: Just as my phone got 8.1

I regularly have to reboot my Lumia 1020 to get the bluetooth to work with my Ford Audio. The text message reading works OK once it's connected, but for some reason it can't hear my replies. Phone works well. Music works OK, but since the 8.1 update I have to kick it off from the actual phone - which kinda defeats the point. Also after about an hour it turns down the volume to a stupidly low level on the basis that my non-existent bluetooth headphones might be damaging my hearing. Never mind that farting around with your phone's unlock screen and volume control at motorway speeds can be pretty terminal in itself.

[JLV]

Ford Focus (audio by MS) and Bluetooth

Rented a Ford Focus twice this year. Nice cars, if you forgive their Microsoft-powered audio system. In both cases, I was just trying to play some tunes off my phone, nothing more fancy, wasn't about to be dinged on roaming charges.

iPhone 4 - In a week, I never got it to Bluetooth, barely managed to get the crap stereo system to accept a linein on its 3.5 jack. Half the time it would try to switch to another source.

Nexus 5 - 3 weeks. Bluetooth recognized right away. Well, recognized enough give me some kinda 911 warning every single time I started the car with my phone in it.

Music? No such luck, their voice guidance kept on telling me to do configure something in their menu-driven system to source music through Bluetooth or somesuch. Except, there was no sub-menu of that name, or any kind of function related to their advice, anywhere.

It was almost worth it not having music to laugh at the truly huge mess MS manages to make out of a car's stereo system. Mind you, despite being a nice drive, the Focus uses 3x as many switches and options to provide the same basic car control and status info as my Civic, so the stereo ergonomics fit.

[Mikel]

They can't sell iOS

That makes Android 93% of their addressable market. Hard to argue against focusing on a winner.

[Bob Vistakin]

Re: They can't sell iOS

Microsoft have a mobile OS? Well I never. You'd have thought they'd advertise it, or something.

[returnmyjedi]

Didn't they announce this about three weeks ago?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2597659/huawei-abandons-windows-phone-says-tizen-has-no-chance-to-be-successful.html

Go to see El Reg on the ball as ever.

[Doug 3]

low sales are low sales to what's the discussion

there's not enough money to be made for the effort to abide by Microsoft's strict design/build control for their platform and the time/effort would be better spent on larger volume products based on Android.

Now if Microsoft were to start paying them to build and ship as they've done in the past I'm sure they would reconsider.

[Anonymous Coward]

does anyone really care for vendor tinkering?

I mean, has anyone ever bought a phone because they actually liked Samsung, HTC or Huawei's 'improvements'?

Having just moved to a lumia 930 after only using Android, the last thing it needs is far-east vendors putting their own warped idea of what looks nice all over it.

[MyffyW]

Re: does anyone really care for vendor tinkering?

Well said @cap'n. I don't think Windows Phone is entirely free from this, but it seems to be less infected with vendor crap than many of the Android handsets.

I think MS need to decide which direction they see the Windows Phone going - the raucous riot of Android (with many vendors, many apps and much crapware) or the walled garden of Apple (and strict control of the hardware and software "experience").

[Wang N Staines]

Someone just whispered in my ear saying Huawei is trying to defend their market share in China against the Lenovo(Motorola).

[Anonymous Coward]

This is news? We saw this coming.

Nokia has absolutely ruined their excellent brand because of Windows Phones.

[Christian Berger]

It could have been comparatively easy

They could have just made the Windows Phone API close enough to the Win32 API that you could just re-compile. Plus they could have added an emulator so you could (kinda) use x86-Win32 applications on your mobile phone. That would have given them a market. Suddenly people would have been able to use all their legacy stuff on their mobile phones. While this has limited use for GUI applications, things like VPNs would just run. And even GUI applications could be changed to have GUIs usable on mobile devices.

Microsoft is a company deeply rooted in their Win32 past. Since then they haven't been able to establish any new platform. Even ".net" is a joke as Microsoft doesn't use it for their own products. (or have I missed Office for .net?)

[MyffyW]

Re: It could have been comparatively easy

@Christian I wonder if an x86 emulator (which might have proven useful on WinRT too) would be too battery-hungry? Or whether MS just weren't willing to give up their Windows Store channel.

[Christian Berger]

Re: It could have been comparatively easy

It probably wouldn't have been battery hungry. I mean most Win32 applications were GUI based so they were mostly waiting for input. Plus Win32 derives from Win16 where everything was event driven. Any Win32 applications don't even use the new features like threads. Using a second of CPU time meant having your application hang for that second. So I wouldn't be surprised if an emulated Win32 application would take even less power than an Android re-implementation.