Intel forced to shoot down viral 'Israeli boycott' whopper A mischief-making political activist kicked up a stir Thursday with a phony press release claiming Intel was halting operations in Israel – over the bloody war between the nation and the Gaza Palestinian region. The site, constructed to look like Intel's official newsroom page, claims the chip giant was suspending funding of …
To the downvoters:
I am not at all pro-Intel, in fact I have turned down consulting work from them that would have required me to go to Isreal. I am not fearful of going to Israel (your chance of being killed by a rocket in Israel is about 1% that of being killed in a car crash). I am, however, uncomfortable with actively participating in the place.
But boycotting does not give you much room for smugness. Even if your computer is not Intel, you're using Intel all the time.
Getting smug about it is as pointless a greenie saying they don't use oil because they ride a bike while happily munching on a carrot that was grown by diesel powered tractors and brought to market by diesel powered trucks.
Like it or not, you're using Intel (and oil) all the time.
"rocket-based resistance". That's a new one.
Chances of being killed by an IRA bomb were lower than drowning in the bath while singing the Marseillaise, but that didn't change the fact that they were deliberately targeting civilians in a terror campaign. Hamas is no different.
Of course the rockets are a Hamas response to Israel preventing them from suicide bombing clubs and buses and setting bombs in civilian population centres.
And lets not forget that they have a habit of storing weapons caches in schools and hospitals. They use the population of Gaza as a giant meatshield and then puppet the corpses for the press when Israel is forced to respond to their constant provocation.
"that didn't change the fact that they were deliberately targeting civilians in a terror campaign. Hamas is no different"
Hamas is different - Hamas don't have precision guided weapons that the Israelis do, so are not able to differentiate. And they are in a concentration camp / prison with 1.8 people locked up inside.
Hamas much prefer to attack Israeli armed forces that civlians. If you look at the recent Gaza statistics, Hamas killed over 96% Israeli soldiers.
How much worse by your own standards than Hamas must be the Israelis - who do have precision wepaons - yet have killed over 80% civilians? The Israelis are cowards who would rather just bomb innocent peopel than fight Hamas directly on the ground.
".....If you look at the recent Gaza statistics, Hamas killed over 96% Israeli soldiers....." Because the Israeli soldiers fight to prevent the death or injury of Israeli civilians, whereas HAMAS simply don't give a shit about civilians - any Gazan that dies, whether by an Israeli bomb or by one of HAMAS's rockets falling short, is processed into a media martyr for the gullible like you. HAMAS wants their own people to die so they can be paraded for the foreign press. When not enough are dying they re-use dead or injured kids for photo ops. Just go on the Web and look at how the Islamists use photos of the people killed in Syria and Iraq as fake 'victims of Israel in Gaza' and you might begin to understand how you have been duped.
"....80% civilians...." The majority of HAMAS and Islamic Jihad fighters in Gaza wear no uniforms, so when they are killed fighting Israel they are simply recycled as 'innocent civilians' for the foreign press. Even the UN is duplicitous in their counting as they do not include the HAMAS-run Gazan police as 'fighters' but as 'civilians', despite them being an intricate part of the HAMAS machine, being armed, and involved in attacking Israelis. The worst is UNWRA, which refuses to even admit the number of their own employees that have been killed fighting for HAMAS, even after they have been caught storing rockets and other arms in UN buildings. Any UN employee killed in Gaza, no matter what they were doing at the time, is automatically classed as a 'civilian'. Then there are the large number of kids that HAMAS uses as messengers and lookouts, despite Israeli warnings to send civilians out of the fighting zones - what kind of people deliberately keep kids in danger and use them as human shields? Is that your idea of 'brave'?
"....The Israelis are cowards who would rather just bomb innocent peopel than fight Hamas directly on the ground." LOL! The Israeli soldier goes forward to stand in front of Israeli civilians to protect them, whereas the HAMAS cowards go to hide behind their civilians to use them as protection. Even when the Israelis are forced to go underground, where they are at a massive disadvantage in the tunnels, they still kill more than fifteen jihadis for every Israeli soldier lost. In the tunnels the Israelis lose their technological advantage yet still wipe the floor with the wannabe jihadis! Not only are HAMAS criminals and cowards they are really bad fighters.
The really tragic bit is that HAMAS and their Islamist chums continue with these regular spats, wasting time and materials on building tunnels and rockets (over THREE THOUSAND TONS of concrete were wasted by HAMAS on their tunnels and bunkers, when ordinary Gazans were complaining of not having enough building materials to rebuild from the last HAMAS tantrum!). And it all gained them nothing, in fact it made the lot of the average Gazan considerably worse than before, let alone compared to how they were before the First Intifada. HAMAS have achieved nothing yet again, how long before they give up their childish insistence on 'destroying Israel', grow up and let the more mature Gazans talk peace?
Let's be clear about a few things here -
1) Hamas are among the scum of the earth. They divert resources meant for civilian infrastructure to digging tunnels they can attack Israel from, and to build bunkers they can hide in while civilians fend for themselves, and hide their armaments in among civilians / use children as human shields etc. They are evil and a waste of oxygen.
2) Palestine / Palestinians and Hamas are NOT the same thing most Palestinians just want to live in peace, but showers of artillery and rockets every 5-10 years, living in what is basically a huge prison and not having any control over their lives, plus being anti-Israel brainwashed by their political and religious leaders mean that they tend not to like Israel. However considering all of the above I am absolutely amazed that less than 100% of Palestinians are members of Hamas, and for these people, I wish the best of luck because they surely need it by the ton.
3) Israel's far right wing and current governemnt are right up alongside Hamas in the 'scum of the earth' category. They pretend to want peace but continue building settlements. They claim to be using precision weaponry then blame Hamas when they shell UN refugee camps. They claim to be victime but they are the ones who started the current round of hostilities, using an excuse that they knew to be fake.
4) Many Israelis are not right-wingers however unfortunately a majority support the ultra-right's policies. Unless a large majority of Israelis vote for a government that will rein in the hardliners, disband settlements and really work for peace, Israel will simply continue to build an apartheid state with Palestinians as 2nd class citizens. I used to have a lot more sympathy to the Israeli cause, but now I see that it's ultimately a majority of their citizens who by their votes have determined the current outcome. I just feel sorry for the sane ones who are tarred with the same brush.
Re boycott, I wouldn't knowingly buy anything made in Israel, but as others said, the way the world is interconnected it is unreasonable to think that it is at all possible that none of the money I spend will ever end up in Israel.
"In light of this dissatisfaction with Hamas security forces and administration, most respondents favored the prospect of the PA taking over Gaza. A remarkable 88 percent agreed with the statement "The PA should send officials and security officers to Gaza to take over administration there" -- including two-thirds who "strongly" agreed."
http://www.businessinsider.com/gaza-civilians-actually-reject-hamas-policies-2014-7
According to Henry Siegman, former executive of the American Jewish Congress, David Ben Gurion instructed his generals to target civilians - specifically to line up Palestinian men against the wall and shoot them, so as to encourage an exodus:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/prominent-jewish-leader-israel-intentionally-killed-civillians-1948-engaged-ethnic-cleansing-ever-since.html
As he points out, Israel was founded by terrorists who were essentially doing what Hamas is now, only much more effectively. The people involved in these crimes went on to become leaders of Israel - Ben Gurion, Rabin, etc.
Strange then how there are Arab Israelis, with full citizenship and rights, still living in Israel. How many Jews are there left in Gaza, despite there having been a Jewish presence there for thousands of years? Gaza used to be a major port in antiquity, with a prosperous Jewish merchant quarter, yet the 'Palestinians' have not only driven out all the Jews but have attempted to rewrite history to deny the Jews were even ever there. I suggest you try reading more history books rather than Islamist propaganda sites.
before the zionist invasion there were only 5,000 jews living happily in jerusalem. i'm not aware of jews living in gaza. most of the people of gaza today are refugees or descendants from refugees fleeing zionist terrorism in the rest of palestine and they DO NOT SUPPORT HAMAS.
"In light of this dissatisfaction with Hamas security forces and administration, most respondents favored the prospect of the PA taking over Gaza. A remarkable 88 percent agreed with the statement "The PA should send officials and security officers to Gaza to take over administration there" -- including two-thirds who "strongly" agreed."
http://www.businessinsider.com/gaza-civilians-actually-reject-hamas-policies-2014-7
"before the zionist invasion...." What 'invasion'? Do you mean in 1948 before the Jews accepted the UN Partition Plan and were promptly attacked by all the neighbouring Arab countries? Do you mean before Transjordan invaded the West Bank and seized Jerusalem, eventually killing or driving out all the Jews in the West Bank? The Egyptians did the same to the Jews left in Gaza in 1948.
".....i'm not aware of jews living in gaza...." Read and learn (try to suppress your instinctive desire to deny anything from a Jewish source): http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/gaza_settlements.html
"......most of the people of gaza today are refugees or descendants from refugees fleeing zionist terrorism in the rest of palestine...." There are many South Syrian Arabs and Bedouin Arabs (so-called 'Palestinians') that ended up there as refugees, along with a large contingent of Gazan natives of Egyptian Arab ethnicity already there. The majority fled nothing, they simply got out of the way of the invading Arab armies in 1948 at the request of their own mullahs, expecting the Arabs to win and then allow them to return to plunder the homes of the dead Jews. The reality was the Arabs lost (mainly due to greed, political infighting, and poor military judgement/performance). Despite the Jews then integrating an equal number of Jewish refugees ejected from surrounding Arab countries (apparently, as far as UNWRA are concerned, there are no Jewish refugees - how convenient!), the Arabs went to great lengths to keep the 'Palestinians' as refugees, despite their UN obligations.
"...... and they DO NOT SUPPORT HAMAS...." Except when the majority vote for HAMAS, you mean? Or when they help HAMAS by hiding weapons, letting them dig bunkers and tunnels under their homes, schools and hospitals? Or when they flock to provide human shields for buildings when asked to by HAMAS? Yeah, sure, no evidence of support there. The Gazans wanted HAMAS to rule them just as the Germans voted for and supported the Nazis, and they both got what they asked for. If the Gazans are now realizing their stupidity then where are the public demonstrations in Gaza calling for HAMAS to give control to Fatah?
The incursion and bombardment of Gaza is not about destroying Hamas. It is not about stopping rocket fire into Israel, it is not about achieving peace.
The Israeli decision to rain death and destruction on Gaza, to use lethal weapons of the modern battlefield on a largely defenseless civilian population, is the final phase in a decades-long campaign to ethnically-cleanse Palestinians.
Israel uses sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely-crowded refugee camps, schools, apartment blocks, mosques, and slums to attack a population that has no air force, no air defense, no navy, no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized armor, no command in control, no army… and calls it a war. It is not a war, it is murder.
When Israelis in the occupied territories now claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population they are crushing. You can’t defend yourself when you’re militarily occupying someone else’s land. That’s not defence. Call it what you like, it’s not defence.
When thousands of rockets rain down on your country you would fight back with any means possible. ANYONE would.
The Israelis are under no compunction to go door to door and use hand to hand combat, they use modern weapons of war.
In my opinion if the Israelis want peace, they should flatten the whole place and throw eveyone out because as soon as there is any peace Hamas simply re-arms and fires more rockets in a never ending war.
Every war where anyone worries about civilian casulties can not be won. Real war, by definition must be ruthless or the point doesn't get across. War with a religious basis will never be won unless one side or the other is completely wiped out. How many thousand years has this area been in conflict anyway? It's not a new situation, jst different players.
The Israelis are shooting back against the specific location where the Hamas rockets were launched from. The entire area already knows they will be attacked because they were specifically warned by the Israelis to leave the combat zone except Hamas insists on using (kidnapping) non combatants as human shields.
You know this and yet you keep spreading lies and propaganda.
While there "may" be some "reasonable" Palestinians to negotiate peace with, the ones that "voted" Hamas into power can't ever be reasoned with. So in the long run there WILL BE NO PEACE unless there is NO GAZA!
Hamas started this and it's up to the Israelis to finish it once and for all!
there is no people on earth that would tolerate having it's entire land stolen off of it in order to house a peoples whose origins never were from that land and who were not entitled to it. any peoples on earth would resist such a stupid and bad idea. palestinian resistance is a natural human response that we would all engage in.
"there is no people on earth that would tolerate having it's entire land stolen off of it in order to house a peoples whose origins never were from that land and who were not entitled to it...." You are passionate but ignorant, a poor combination. I would suggest you do a lot more reading on the history of the area, especially the large number of Jews that had been living in the area prior to the 1948 events (some in villages which had had a continuous Jewish presence for thousands of years). The UN Partition Plan was based on areas with a predominantly Arab or Jewish presence, not a wild carving up of the land to fit in Jewish refugees from Europe.
"....The Israeli decision to rain death and destruction on Gaza, to use lethal weapons of the modern battlefield on a largely defenseless civilian population, is the final phase in a decades-long campaign to ethnically-cleanse Palestinians....." Really? It seems to be progressing at a snail's pace given that the Israelis have the weaponry to completely level Gaza and kill every living thing in there. And it does beg the question why the Israelis send warning texts, phone calls and even use warning shot missiles without an explosive warhead before actually hitting a target? Try thinking for a change.
"....It's much much lower than that. All time total civilian deaths from Hamas rocket based resistance to the occupying Israeli forces are in single figures." True, the number of Israeli citizens killed by HAMAS rockets is actually far less than the number of Gazans killed by HAMAS and Islamic Jihad rockets that fall short and land in Gaza, an irony that makes the 'resistance' (actually the war crime of attempted murder of civilians) by HAMAS and co all the more tragic. But then the Islamists terror groups always kill more Muslims than infidels.
Boycotted Intel? AMD do R&D in Israel and Broadcom have offices there that employ staff too - are you boycotting them too?
Boycotting companies in Israel is pretty pointless and in some cases counter-productive, especially if those companies employ Palestinians as well as Israelis (and most do).
As terrible as what is happening in Gaza, when Hamas kidnap and murder kids, you have to be expecting Israel to react. You can't shoot soldiers during a ceasefire and expect the ceasefire to hold.
No amount of rock throwing, killing, threats or protests is going to make Israel vanish. The Palestinians don't have the strength to throw them out and every rocket just means some poor bastard/s will have their home bombed out of existence hopefully while they are not in it but more than likely will be.
If you can't beat them, don't provoke them.
All these fake press releases do is fool a few stupid reporters. It changes nothing even if the release was real.
Questions:
1) What is article 13 of Hamas's charter? Go and read it, i'll wait. Exerpts such as this "There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility." don't really do justice to Hamas.
Hamas consider a ceasefire an opportinity to attack israel through their extensive media wing, a state of the art media manipulation wing that does amazingly well, helped by the enthusiasm to kill anybody on the ground who doesn't back their story. Things like rockets being launched from civilian houses or schools to attract return fire which is then portrayed as an atrocity are commonplace, and Hamas utterly violate virtually ever civilised law of warfare- at the moment their HQ is in a hospital which i'm sure that they are desperately hoping that Israel will raid.
Even the guardian was moved to report that the UN has found weapon caches in 3 of it's own buildings recently.
"What is article 13 of Hamas's charter? Go and read it, i'll wait"
Not surprising though when you consider that Israel's origins are as a terrorist state starting from attrocities such as the bombing of the King David hotel, and many other attacks on the British, and arabs - Followed by the ignoring of the guarantees to the Palestinians in the Balfour Declaration, the refusal to accept the splits proposed in the Mandate for Palestine, and the subsequent taking of Palestinian towns and villages by force by terrorist tactics such as indescriminate attacks and throwing hand grenades inside houses, forced 'death marches' out of the country - the seizing of the Palestinian's land and property without compensation and the denial of their return. And to this day to regular and ongoing well documented deliberate attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure including frequent deliberate targetting of women and children - including being directly responsible for masacres like Sabra and Shatila. And the maintenance to this day of an apartheid regime that institutionally and legally descriminates against Palestinians (For instance the 'Right of Return' laws that apply only to Jews) - and that at least four Israeli Prime Ministers have previously been well known terrorists.
How can you expect Hamas to try to negotiate with Barbarians like the Israelis with a history of 50+ years of this sort of thing? Let us not forget that before the Zionist invasion, less than 5% of the property and population of Palestine was Jewish.
And you forget the repeated bombing over the years of Gaza and the west banks, where they destroy infrastructure such as schools, hospitals, sanitation systems, bridges which were built with funds from around the world, most of which comes from the European Union.
The Israeli waste is dumped in the gigantic waste sites in the Gaza strip. The economic embargo, I could go on and on ...
The holocaust was a terrible thing, however, they use that to protect themselves, whenever anybody speaks up against Israel, he tagged antisemitic, nazi ... I make a clear distinction between the Israeli government, the Jewish religion, and followers.
Israel needs to go back to the borders of 1947, end of discussion. That is what my country initially took from the Palestinians and gave to the Israeli's, if they do not like that they get NOTHING. NOTHING= Israel is united with the west bank, Gaza, and named Palestine, control of the country given to the Palestinian authority.
Simple. Problem solved.
They are all proud and shit, joyful, think they are Rambo, while there's attacking a bunch of stone-throwing kids with tanks, highly trained ground troops, and aircraft. One day maybe, the EU will say: "Israel, listen, we happen to have enough weaponry to create a crater in Jerusalem all the way down to Australia. So, here are your two options ...". The US relies on Israel to maintain the embargo on Cuba, so we cannot really hope they will do anything.
"Israel needs to go back to the borders of 1947, end of discussion. "
While I think these sorts of flame wars are pointless, and I'm amazed the secular left supports medieval obscurantist religious nutters, I do have to ask: the Palestinians rejected the 1947 borders as designated by UN at the time. Why do you think they will accept them now? It does appear that ship has sailed.
I think I've just crossed the event horizon.....
the whole idea of zionism in palestine is a very stupid and a very bad idea that's never going to work. as soon as the zionist state is "peacefully dismantled" the better then we will see a real exodus of 6 million palestinians to come home to their land.
http://i.imgur.com/6vWvdTV.jpg
You could much more easily argue that the whole idea of Islamism is stupid and the sooner militant Islam is dismantled - and it would have to be violently as Islam is very obviously not the 'Religion of Peace' - the better. The idea that Islamists can justify trying to kill 'infidels' the World over just because they think their 'prophet' said a sky-fairy said they should is verging on lunacy. Oh, does that idea upset you? Don't worry, you can ask a mullah to proclaim a jihad on me if it makes you feel better.
"And you forget the repeated bombing over the years of Gaza and the west banks, where they destroy infrastructure such as schools, hospitals, sanitation systems, bridges which were built with funds from around the world, most of which comes from the European Union....." Didn't you ever stop to think it strange that tiny Israel, the only Jewish state, could build a modern infrastructure and World-leading scientific community, whilst the Arabs built diddly-squat other than a war machine to attack Israel? All those Arab and other Muslim states with so much oil money, yet the EU had to build stuff for the 'Palestinisians'? Ever wonder why the Arabs can produce so many suicide bombers but not one Nobel Prize-winning scientist? I dare you to overcome your ignorance and go check out how many Israelis have won the Nobel Prize for the different sciences. Please do try and pretend it's all due to American money, ignoring the vast sums the Arabs have earned (and wasted) from oil.
The fact is Israel was willing to accept peace and the much smaller state of Israel as set out in the UN Partition Plan for Mandate Palestine in 1948, and it is Israel that has gone on to build a First World country, whilst the Arabs rejected the UN Plan and have wasted decades of development aid and their most precious resource - their children's futures - on the rabid insistence on destroying the one Jewish state in the whole World.
".....One day maybe, the EU will say...." It is far more likely that one day the EU will be welcoming Israel as a full member of the EU - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–European_Union_relations. Enjoy!
".....Israel's origins...." The origins of Israel were the historic Jewish kingdoms that were the thousands of years before Islam even existed, let alone before the Arab Muslim hordes that swept out of the Saudi Peninsula in the Middle Ages. Try reading more history and less Islamist propaganda.
"The origins of Israel were the historic Jewish kingdoms that were the thousands of years before Islam even existed"
and as stated in the Bible, the Israelis conquered that land from others living there at the time, who themselves moved in after Jewish exodus to Egypt, before which there were some other tribes, also partly Jewish who had been exiled to Mesopotamia and back etc etc.
Just as in the UK the native Britons and Celts were pushed west and North by teh Anglo-Saxons, who weer conquered and then mixed in with teh Normans, who were themsleves descendants of vikings who were anyway sort of cousins to the Anglo-Saxons... and I'm sure many bits of land around the world have a messy history with lots of people who could lay some sort of claim.
At some point we need to forget history and look at current facts. There are millions of Palestinians living in Gaza (a de facto prison) and West Bank (de facto controlled by Israel), who have next to no control over their lives. There's only 2 long-term solutions, either these areas become a fully-fledged (hopefully peaceful, democratic) Palestinian state, both in law and in fact controlled by Palestinians, or else Israel in law take full control over these areas which they currently control in practice (the Greater Israel much loved by the Israeli right wing). In the latter case either Palestinians get full citizenship like the current Israeli arabs (which might see Israel eroding it's majority-Jewish identity) or else they'll be like blacks in Apartheid South Africa (or worse, full-scale ethnic cleansing).
Israel currently cannot conceive of a long-term 2-state solution, but it's path is currently leading it towards a 1-state solution that in whatever guise it might take will ultimately destroy Israel's Jewish soul.
"......There's only 2 long-term solutions....." Wrong. The UN already has a long-term solution enshrined in UN Security Council Resolutions, which state that the 'Palestinians' have to give up violence and complete negotiations with Israel over final borders for a two-state solution. The 'Palestinian National Authority (AKA the PLO) have tried everything they can to end-run round their obligations, including attempting to get themselves recognized as a member state at the UN. HAMAS, the other main 'Palestinian' political entity, has rejected the call to give up violence and they do not recognize Israel, let alone the idea of a two-state solution - their charter commits them to the destruction of Israel. For them, any negotiated solution is just a temporary truce to allow them to build up for the next attack on a Israel. It would be suicidally stupid for Israel to concede any loosening of the current import restrictions on Gaza unless HAMAS has been disbanded and their forces completely disarmed. Which brings us to the most likely long-term solution you didn't mention - nothing changes in Gaza, Israel periodically goes in to degrade their terrorist capability, and any actual 'Palestinian' state gets created in the West Bank only at best. Israel has had to fight to survive and made so many sacrifices in the face of Arab aggression for so many years that they will put up with it, whilst the 'Palestinians' will continue being the real long-term losers.
well there were some achievements by israeli kings like omri, but we really havn't seen much evidence for the "empires" of king david or soloman, do you know of any??
we also need to remember that it was originally canaan before the hebrews invaded and took it off them.
"Dr Francesca Stavrakopoulou goes on the trail of the Biblical King David and his fabled empire. A national hero and icon for the Jewish people, and a divine king for Christians, David is best known as the boy-warrior who defeated the Philistine giant Goliath. As king, he united the tribes of Israel. But did he really rule over a vast Israelite kingdom? Did he even exist?
Stavrakopoulou visits key archaeological excavations where ground-breaking finds are being unearthed, and examines evidence for and against the Biblical account of King David. She explores the former land of the Philistines, home of the giant Goliath, and ruins in the north of Israel and in old Jerusalem itself purporting to be remains of David's empire."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00zp3j3
".....but we really havn't seen much evidence for the "empires" of king david or soloman, do you know of any??....." You could start with the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem, site of the ancient Jewish temple that the Muslims - in their usual attempts to eradicate all trace of prior religions - built the Al Aqsa mosque on top of (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Mosque). They tried the same trick in Constantinople, 'recreating' the Greek Orthodox Hagia Sofia basilica into a mosque (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Sophia). You'll find plenty of ill-educated Muslims who insist on pretending the Hagia Sofia was always a mosque, I assume you are probably one of them.
> Jewish temple that the Muslims - in their usual attempts to eradicate all trace of prior religions - built the Al Aqsa mosque on top of (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Mosque).
Have you any idea of what the (catholic) conquistadores did when they got to the new world? Any idea? No, you don't.
> They tried the same trick in Constantinople, 'recreating' the Greek Orthodox Hagia Sofia basilica into a mosque (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Sophia). You'll find plenty of ill-educated Muslims who insist on pretending the Hagia Sofia was always a mosque, I assume you are probably one of them.
It's very well known and acknowledged amongst moslems that Hagia Sophia was indeed a church before it became a mosque. All the guidebooks I saw when I was there said so. I know of no moslem that would claim otherwise, or would care what it was previously.
One religion taking over another religion's place of worship is not unusual.
Your anti-islamic bigotry is tiresome. All religions have their good parts and their gross excesses.
".....All religions have their good parts and their gross excesses." Really? Please do name a religion other than Islam that has followers that fly commercial airliners into office towers, as AQ did. Then name one that has adherents with a charter calling for the destruction of an UN-recognized sovereign state, as HAMAS's charter does.
"....One religion taking over another religion's place of worship is not unusual....." OMGeeez, Boring Green actually gets something right for once!!! Like just about everything else, the Arabs copied it from another civilization, in this case the Romans.
Time for more multiple posts to try and work out what has upset the PCness of El (or should that be Al-) Mod.
"Have you any idea of what the (catholic) conquistadores did when they got to the new world? Any idea? No, you don't...." Yes I do, actually. More than enough to know it has SFA to do with Israel, but then it is in keeping with your usual level of complete irrelevance.
A little research lesson for you, then - http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/pedophile.htm
Rejecting historical facts because they upset those that would rather pretend they did not happen is simply PC censorship. Please do note that The Prophet's lifestyle is the role model for many Islamists, especially those in HAMAS, Islamic Jihad (HAMAS's partners in attacks on Israel) and IS (aka ISIS) in Iraq and Syria.
As well as the concerns over his choice of wives, Muhammed was also a slaver (apologists version here - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad%27s_views_on_slavery), which makes his popularity with certain African-Americans all the more ironic. Oh, and before you go there, I am aware that the historic Jews also were slavers (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_slavery).
Not crying, thanks, simply more aware.
Modern Israelis != Biblical Israelites.
Unless you're trying to submit that actually Europe belongs to the Rome, and America to the native Indians. Countries, empires, and borders are all man made creations and do not last.
Besides, I'm a descendant of Pangaea, so you can get the hell off my ancestors land!
"Modern Israelis != Biblical Israelites......" Wow, what amazing insight! And your point is? Oh, you don't have one.
".....I'm a descendant of Pangaea....." The continent of Pangaea broke up about 100 million years ago, long before mankind existed. Homo Erectus didn't even appear until about 1.9m years ago. So, unless you think you're a crocodile, you're just talking male bovine manure. If you do think you're a crocodile then it does give an insight into the 'thought process' used for your post.
"when Hamas kidnap and murder kids, you have to be expecting Israel to react."
I'm not aware of any evidence of that whatsoever? My understanding is the balance of probability is that the recent 3 deaths were in fact Israeli on Israeli violence.
And reacting by murdering 1,800 people - over 80% of which were civilians and 25% children, and likely all of what had zero to do with those deaths is not what I would expect a civilised country to do,.
So far, about 1500 people have been killed due to the fighting. About 50% of those killed are Gazan armed forces. Of the remaining 50% killed, somewhere around 15% will have been killed in crossfire by the Gazan fighters, leaving around 35% killed accidentally by the IDF, and the IDF will think that is about 525 more people than they wanted to kill. Hamas would like this figure to be higher.
A lot of the homes that have been destroyed were blown up by booby traps within the civilian infrastructure. After Israel bombs weapon stores embedded within the civilian infrastructure, far more widespread damage is caused by the secondary explosions of the weapon store going off.
If however you think that the Israelis are blood thirsty child killers intent on committing a genocide then please ignore the above and carry on living in la la land.
"So far, about 1500 people have been killed due to the fighting."
Actually it's already about 1,800
"About 50% of those killed are Gazan armed forces"
Actually the only idependent figure we have show that less than 20% of the dead have anything to do with Hamas - and these agree quite closely with the Palestinina figures - and many of those are not in anyway armed fighters. Hamas are also the government / police / social services in Gaza.
"Of the remaining 50% killed, somewhere around 15% will have been killed in crossfire by the Gazan fighters, leaving around 35% killed accidentally by the IDF"
Based on what evidence? Complete invention I think.
"A lot of the homes that have been destroyed were blown up by booby traps within the civilian infrastructure. After Israel bombs weapon stores embedded within the civilian infrastructure, far more widespread damage is caused by the secondary explosions of the weapon store going off."
Based on what evidence? Complete invention I think. Again. Certainly none of the extensive TV footage that i have seen has shown any sign of seconadary explosions.
"If however you think that the Israelis are blood thirsty child killers intent on committing a genocide "
There certainly is extensive and long term well documented evidence across many many incidents to support this point of view.
Maybe you should apply for one of those Israeli university scholarships to pump out IDF propaganda on social media? You don't sound like you would need much coaching...
" My understanding is the balance of probability is that the recent 3 deaths were in fact Israeli on Israeli violence."
I have to translate "balance of probability" as "what I'd like to believe.".
The Gaza attack, say what you will of it, was in response to rocketing, not the kidnap/murders.
.and the rockets were a response to the crackdown after the 3 racist settlers who were operating against international law and harassing palestinians in the west bank (so no sympathy from me!) were kidnapped and murdered probably by the qawasameh clan, independent of (but affiliated to) hamas.
"Qawasameh tribe (Arabic القواسمة, also spelled: Qawasmeh or Kawasmeh in English), which dominates Hamas in Hebron, is a radical opposition faction within Hamas, which frequently sabotages Hamas cease fires with bombings and attacks, provoking Israeli retaliation. The Shin Bet has accused them of kidnapping the Yeshiva students."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qawasameh_tribe
".....after the 3 racist settlers who were operating against international law and harassing palestinians in the west bank (so no sympathy from me!)....." You mean the three kids that were hitching home from school?!?!? Wow, so all you have to do to harass 'Palestinians' is to go to school - what you really mean is all you have to do to harass Islamists is to be an infidel and live in an area the Islamic hordes previously claimed as theirs by conquest. I bet you're the type that thinks baby-killer Samir Kuntar was a great 'freedom fighter' and Einat Haran was 'harassing' him, right? You are not just ignorant but willfully ignorant.
Do you seriously think Hamas gives a flying fuck about the civilian casualties in Gaza? To them it is all good publicity (Look, the evil Israelis are killing our children). For them, the more women and children the IDF kill, the better.
And even if we ignore the civilian carnage in Gaza, how the hell does getting 60+ of your soldiers killed, turning world opinion against your country, creating martyrs and garnering 1000's of new recruits for Hamas make any sense as a response to 5 civilian deaths? (the 3 murdered and the 2 Israeli civilians killed in the conflict).
" when Hamas kidnap and murder kids, you have to be expecting Israel to react."
Israel reacted to 3 Israeli kids being murdered by a local group that had nothing to do with Hamas and was acting alone. Israel used the incident to blame hamas and start the fighting even though they knew full well that Hamas had nothing to do with it. They captured and tortured suspects hoping to give themselves a shred of a fig-leaf for their aggression and still haven't turned up anything. The kidnap-murder was just an excuse to drop a few tonnes of explosive of Gaza.
Hamas are still scum of the earth, but this at least is one thing that cannot be pinned on them.
Those Palestinians aren't very bright, for one. One would have thought that they would have learned by now, but no, the penny still hasn't dropped for them.
The Palestinians are a weak people, cowardly even. To throw sticks and stones at Fighter Jets - the act of an impotent fool.
The Palestinians should learn their place. Getting all uppity and needed to be taught a lesson. That'll show them. Just a bit more to go now till they are all wiped off the face of the map and driven into the sea.
The Israelis are a proud and magnificent people A warrior race of heros. Their actions over the last weeks shall go down in history and become part of folklore for many years to come. Yes, future generations shall look on the works of the mighty and...?
"As terrible as what is happening in Gaza". But at least you are a man of compassion Thorne and can see both sides of the argument, and you are not biased in any way at all. Your humanity shone though that post of yours like a beacon of magnanimity for the rest of us emotionally challenged 'tards to follow.
If only others had your insight, especially those not too bright Palestinians, none of this would be happening. As terrible as what is happening in Gaza, you can't help but feel the pesky little upstarts brought it all on themselves, can you?
Can you, Thorne?
And that makes it all ok. Perhaps you even find a bit of glory in there too? Justice?
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"And that makes it all ok. Perhaps you even find a bit of glory in there too? Justice?"
Justice is a relative term and in reality doesn't exist. Both sides are seeking justice against the other. Until at least one side says "Fuck it. This isn't worth it" it will keep happening.
Personally I don't really care. The Palestinians will keep firing rockets and sending suicide bombers and the Jews will keep bombing them back to the stone age.
I can't see peace ever happening because the Muslims don't play well with others, not even other Muslims. Even if the Jews left the middle east, the Muslims would just move onto blowing up someone else.
"In light of this dissatisfaction with Hamas security forces and administration, most respondents favored the prospect of the PA taking over Gaza. A remarkable 88 percent agreed with the statement "The PA should send officials and security officers to Gaza to take over administration there" -- including two-thirds who "strongly" agreed."
http://www.businessinsider.com/gaza-civilians-actually-reject-hamas-policies-2014-7
Can all the astroturfers, guardian readers, and others please stop politicking this issue on El Reg?
I care not whther you're pro-Palestine/anti-semitic, or pro-Islrael/Zionist, it's got feck all to do with technology. It's irritating, futile, and you're never going to agree with each other.
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>pro-Palestine/anti-semitic
You, sir, have no clue ... those two are mutually exclusive.
You should say pro-Israel/zionist or pro-Palestinian/anti-zionist.
The people of Palestine are a Semitic tribe, just like the historical Jews that lived in the area back in the day were.
PS: You must be a sun/daily mirror reader IOW window cleaner
But not the current Jewish residents of Israel - who are mostly of European origin.
Exactly. A bunch of opportunistic European Christian converts that have *ZERO* link to the region, yet claim it as their religious birthright.
The situation would be laughable were it not so tragic.
"You, sir, have no clue ... those two are mutually exclusive."
Are you actually this daft, or are you trolling?
Pro-Palestinians are frequently viewed and labelled as Anti-Semitic by those who are Pro-Israel, who are themselves often labelled as Zionists by the former group. You need to start thinking BEFORE you post.
@LucreLout; "Can all the astroturfers, guardian readers, and others please stop politicking this issue on El Reg?"
WTF? Considering the story was about a bogus PR release whose entire existence was motivated by a political- rather than technological- issue, it's hardly politicising things to discuss it in those terms.
Unless one side can completly eradicate 100% of the other side by means of extream violence. then the only option is to negotiate for peace. the side with the best resourses will be looked down on for its unfair kill rate and the side with the least resourses will pay the victim card. the only solution is to negotiate for peace or this will go on and on and on.
Sadly there'll never be a US boycott for what amounts to the evil little 51st state, since it's a case of the tail wagging the dog. The surprisingly extensive list of top US Senators and Congressmen that hold dual US/Israeli citizenship gives direct evidence of who's really calling the shots.
"....The surprisingly extensive list of top US Senators and Congressmen that hold dual US/Israeli citizenship gives direct evidence of who's really calling the shots." Yeah, and that 'extensive list' is where? Oh, just in your imagination. Does it have a Schlomo Obama or a Barrack Hussein Obama on it?
I'm sorry, but it's a tad more nuanced than that, AC.
Israel is not evil (though the state has done some vile things in the name of the Israeli people).
Hamas are not Satan (though I wouldn't care to live under their regime).
Palestine / Israel is a small but significant piece of land that people have been arguing over for millennia. And we aren't going to fix it by bashing lumps out of each other in the forums of El Reg.
Sounds very similar to the case where a greenie environmental protester issued a fake PR in OZ.
Usual left wing tactics where the ends justify the means, even if the means mean committing criminal acts like fraud. And it is still fraud even if the "protester" didn't benefit directly themselves.
I dont get all this Hamas bashing. They were denied their democratic victory through a terror campaign, bombed over and over again, denied funds, locked into a tiny strip. Their members are arrested, imprisoned/bombed/assassinated without explanation.Even when they are willing to negotiate about peace, Israel refused on the basis that they are supposedly terrorists. Hamas is a desperate (no shit) government fighting for survival. How pointless to nitpick their speeches as a reason to keep this going.
or maybe his downvoters take issue with his complete misrepresentation of the person he's supposedly responding to?
The kill-stats for each side (and seriously? is that what we do now, compare kill-stats like its a game of CoD?) mostly show what happens when one side insists on fighting a war using civilians (their own familys...) as human shields. i refuse to get upset with Israel for attacking a missile launch site just because Hamas deliberately set up said launch site on the roof of a hospital - or at least, not more upset than i am with Hamas for doing it, or the other people in the hospital for not stopping it. (oh whats that? Hamas are armed and would shoot the civilians for trying to stop them? yeah, thats part of the hint that maybe, just maybe, Hamas arnt the good guys here...)
There are around 1500 palestinians dead. How many of these are civilians you can take the Israeli view (50%) or the UN and others (80%).
On the Israeli side, there are 60 dead, 58 of which are soldiers. Which is about 3% civilian casualties.
So one side is killing 50-80% civilians, the other around 3%.
Remind me which side is doing the 'precision' attacks and doing everything to avoid killing civilians?
"Remind me which side is doing the 'precision' attacks and doing everything to avoid killing civilians?"
Your analysis is way off.
One side is trying to protect its civilian population and so far is doing a bloody good job at it. Its soldiers are also clearly identified as soldiers, and do not use the civilian population as camouflage.
The other side is trying to maximise the harm to its civilian population, and on the whole is failing due to the Israelis caring more about the other sides civilians than Hamas do.
Veritas could be in hot water very soon when the gaze of Chipzilla's lawyers fall on the bogus site.
I don't see how. Even if he used Intel's copyrighted or trademarked intellectual property, it's clearly either parody or commentary/criticism and so fair-use doctrine applies.
They might try suing for libel, but I doubt highly that would get them anywhere in a US court*. And even if it did, they're unlikely to get any real money out of Veritas so why bother? Best just to let it die naturally and move on.
*I suppose they might be able to sue in a jurisdiction that would be more accommodating but that's still likely to be a Pyrrhic victory.
In Matt Bryant we've uncovered el Reg's very own resident, rabid Zionist apologist!
Out of interest, how much is the regime paying you Matt?
Students in Israel are to form government-funded "covert units" to defend the country on Facebook and Twitter, it's reported.
The Prime Minister's office is reportedly spending around £540,000 recruiting more than 500 students to respond to social media posts calling for boycotts and sanctions against the country, the Jerusalem Post says. Those with foreign language skills who receive these "scholarships" would not identify themselves as being in the pay of the government. Instead, Israel's Ha'aretz newspaper says, the plan is to make the programme appear to be based on the activity of politically-neutral students, with the Prime Minister's Office also hoping to recruit from pro-Israel student groups from around the world.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896
http://consciouslifenews.com/paid-internet-shill-shadowy-groups-manipulate-internet-opinion-debate/
http://www.eutimes.net/2009/12/israel-paying-agents-to-post-pro-israel-propaganda-on-internet-forums-blogs/
"....how much is the regime paying you Matt?....." Oh, I enjoy exposing your ignorance for free, in the hope you and the rest of your ill-educated chums will go have sexual intercourse elsewhere and this can get back to being a technical website for technical people, something you obviously are not.
Chronology of ze evil Tchooten
0 AD - Zey kill Tchesus
800-1600 AD - Zey kill babies and eat flat bread baked von ze blood von ze babies
1933-1945 - Ve gently try to convince zem to stop being naughty
1948-today - But insted, Zey continue killing babies and vomen in ze Middle East with ze help of zeir evil Amerikan frends.
Vot is rong mit dies people?
Und de Sauerkraut mit de Viener Schnitzel von die Tchooten!!!
"Lebensraum (German for "habitat" or literally "living space") was an important component of Nazi ideology in Germany. The Nazis supported territorial expansionism to gain Lebensraum as being a law of nature for all healthy and vigorous peoples of superior races to displace people of inferior races; "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum
"Lebensraum (German for "habitat" or literally "living space") was an important component of Nazi ideology in Germany. The Nazis supported territorial expansionism to gain Lebensraum as being a law of nature for all healthy and vigorous peoples of superior races to displace people of inferior races; "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum
So could we use this to describe whats currently happening down there... Or is that still to near the Politically Incorrect. 'Cause they're Jews and Jews should get a free pass...
Is anybody questioning Britain's (and it's allies) fierce response to the bombing of London by the Luftwaffe? They absolutely did the right thing - they defended themselves by retaliating. Guess what, some German civilians were killed in the counter attacks. Should that have given Churchill a reason to not order the bombings?
Why is Israel's response any different?
"Is anybody questioning Britain's (and it's allies) fierce response to the bombing of London by the Luftwaffe?....." The big difference was both the RAF and Luftwaffe were the uniformed forces of sovereign countries. That and the fact the Luftwaffe didn't strap women and kids to their bombers in an attempt to hide behind them.
or use CHILDREN as human sheilds?
Israelis 'use girl as human shield'
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2007/03/2008525143928252992.html
Israeli high court bans military use of Palestinians as human shields
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/israel
Israel 'human shield' suspension
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6554487.stm
Israel's Human Shields and Live Bait
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sharmine-narwani/israels-human-shields-and_b_755439.html
Israeli soldiers await sentence for using human shield
http://rt.com/news/human-shield-palestinians-israel/
Border Police denies using teen as human shield
http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Border-Police-denies-it-used-teen-as-human-shield-310498
thereby equating the morality and ethics of zionists in 2014 with britain in 1940! imo that's still putting way too much credit on the zionist backward and primitive morality, but it's in the right direction.
(btw bomber command was left out of VE day celebrations precisely because of it's "terror bombing" campaign, britain had greater morals in the 1940s than israelis have today).
Is anybody questioning Britain's (and it's allies) fierce response to the bombing of London by the Luftwaffe? They absolutely did the right thing - they defended themselves by retaliating. Guess what, some German civilians were killed in the counter attacks. Should that have given Churchill a reason to not order the bombings?
Why is Israel's response any different?
Because this time the Palestinians didn't do anything. This current sh--storm happened cause One Jew kidnapped and, killed Three other Jews.... And of course the Palestinians must have done it. But, then anything to get them to move along so as to grow Israels "Lebensraum"...
".....Because this time the Palestinians didn't do anything....." Ignoring the kidnapping and murder of the three school kids by HAMAS operatives in the West Bank, the Israeli operations in Gaza were in direct response to the rocket and mortar fire out of Gaza and HAMAS's digging of tunnels into Israel. Try reading before bleating next time.
".....my next PC will not have 'intel inside', that's fer dayam sure! ;)" Why stop there? Seeing as you are so obviously anti-Semitic, why don't you just boycott all inventions 'tainted' by originating in Israel or by Jewish inventors? Start here, pretty soon you'll be back living that Dark Age, tech-free, medicine-free lifestyle enjoyed by your 'Prophet':
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_inventions_and_ discoveries
Here's a partial list if some of the things you really should stop using if you really want to be 'Zionist-free':
Jeans, Lipstick, the Ballpoint Pen, Contraceptives, Instant Coffee, Television Remote Control, Traffic Lights, Scotchguard, the Flexistraw, The Atomic Bomb, the Thermonuclear Bomb, God, Genetic Engineering, the Nuclear Chain Reactor, Virtual Reality, Hollywood, the Sit-Com, the Long Playing Record, Woodstock, Sound Movies, Videotape, Color Television, Instant Photography, Holography, Monotheism, Psychoanalysis, the Theory of Relativity, the Weekend (Shabbat), Cheesecake, Cafeterias, Discount Stores, Pawn Shops, the Shopping Cart and the Ready-to-Wear Clothing Industry, Prozac, Valium, The Polio Vaccine, Radiation, Chemotherapy, the Artificial Kidney Dialysis machine, the Defibrillator, the Cardiac Pacemaker, Vaccination against the deadly "Hepatitis B" virus, the Vaccinating Needle, Laser Technology, Google, the Wire Transmission Facsimilie (FAX) , the Microphone, the Gramophone, the Microprocessing Chip, Optical Fiber Cable, Laser, Cellular Technology, the Videotape Recorder, Drip Irrigation, Scale Model Electric Trains, the Pager, the Walkie-talkie, Refrigerated Railroad Car, High-vacuum Electron Tubes, the Incandescent Lamp, Kodachrome Film, the Blimp, the Adding Machine, Stainless Steel, Tapered Roller Bearings.
At least 178 Jews have been awarded the Nobel Prize, accounting for 23% of all individual recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2008, and constituting 37% of all US recipients during the same period. In the scientific research fields of Chemistry, Economics, Medicine and Physics, the corresponding world and US percentages are 27% and 40%, respectively. (Jews currently make up approximately 0.25% of the world's population and 2% of the US population). What have the 'Palestinians' given us other than airliner hijacking and suicide bombers?
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