back to article Pentagon hacker McKinnon can't visit sick dad for fear of extradition

Pentagon hacker Gary McKinnon is afraid tor visit his sick father in Glasgow after advice from his lawyers about the possibility of extradition. McKinnon's father, Charlie, is in hospital after suffering a stroke. But lawyers for the London-based hacker have advised him against visiting his dad in hospital in Scotland because …

  1. This post has been deleted by its author

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The US need to grow the fuck up and stop acting like the self absorbed teenagers of the world and threatening our citizens. If the UK government threatened a US citizen the US would take their side and fight until their version of justice is reached.

    The US really are hated the world over, and they can't see why...basically, they are Vicky Pollard.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      So basically you are upset at the US because the US government fights for its citizens while your government does not?

      > The US really are hated the world over, and they can't see why

      Every country hates the US for different reasons, to many to count. Brits don't like us because we don't use the letter U in every second word and detest sweater vests, Germans because we smile and laugh to often (more than once a day), Italians because most people in the US think pizza is Italian, and the French are just snobs to everyone. Lets not forget about the difference between how the world feels about football and how the US feels about soccer...

      There are a few global reasons that everyone agrees on (loud, boisterous, obnoxious, uninformed of the local culture for example), but people don't seem to realize that most people visiting from the US are on vacation to experience the culture and by being on vacation they are drunk or hungover hence the loud, boisterous, obnoxious, etc behavior.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Every country hates the US for different reasons"

        No no. We all hate you for the same reasons. But explaining them to an American is about as much use as explaining to your cat why your source code wont compile.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Bummer

          Our cats are smart enough to understand why - I suspect your cat went through the same education system that you did. {}:>))

        2. John Tserkezis

          "explaining to your cat why your source code wont compile."

          I tried that once. He stared at me blankly, and walked over the keyboard. For a moment there I thought the "random" keypresses would find just the right combination for me to see the problem.

          It didn't work. In fact, it made things worse. So I fed him some biscuits and put him out of the house.

        3. Paratt
          Angel

          Canucks don't hate the great old USA!?! They're our southern bumpkin cousins, ♡ eh!?!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "There are a few global reasons that everyone agrees on"

        Yes. None of those were the ones you mentioned. You could consider some these:

        A one sided view of all forms of criminal law

        A one sided view of all international law

        Shit-stirring all round the world

        Spying all round the world, including on heads of state of friendly nations

        Re-arming the Israelis to help them kill Palestinians

        Inventing excuses for, and then prosecuting unjustified wars

        Starting wars that reduce countries to rubble, then fucking off when it all goes rancid afterwards.

        Have I missed anything? I suspect a whole lot more besides.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @ Ledswinger

          So you don't like US citizens because of policies the US government have created and implemented even though those citizens have no idea about the policy or may have even voted against it? Sounds like fine "I hate you because of where you were born!" reasoning to me.

          Note: there is a difference between not liking the US government and not liking a US citizen...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            @AC, I don't think Ledswinger mentioned US citizens anywhere in his well considered statements.

            I personally have nothing against the average US citizen, however when it comes to US authorities the attitude changes somewhat, so much so that I would never visit your country ever again.

            1. Ally 1

              This, definitely this. I love the US, I love US citizens. But I hope I never have to visit the place again. The DHS look at you as presumed guilty of something for daring to enter their country. They don't have a shred of humanity about them. I visited Illinois, Lousiana, Texas and California, usually several times each. And every DHS I met was cut from the same cloth. Then when you get into the damned place you see it is all government and state workers.

              Listen guys, I have a pretty decent job. I don't want to defect, immigrate or even jaywalk. I want to come in, do my business and leave again.

              As for the government foreign policy..

          2. Gene Cash Silver badge

            > there is a difference between not liking the US government and not liking a US citizen

            Not really. As a citizen with the right to vote, I'm partially responsible for those idiots, regardless of the crap toss-a-coin choice I get every 4 years. I just facepalm a lot and practice my Canadian accent, eh?

            1. Irony Deficient

              partial responsibility

              Gene, as a citizen with the right to vote, you get a choice every two years with your federal Representative. Your ballot might offer you more than two pre-printed choices, and you could write in a candidate of your choice if the ones on offer are not to your liking.

              Which Canadian accent do you practice?

            2. MrDamage

              "There is a difference between not liking the US government and not liking a US citizen"

              What is the average percentage of the US population that can be bothered voting? Roughly 60%

              So, that's 40% of the populace who can't be arsed to make enough of a difference locally to try and mitigate the global opinion. Enough of a reason to dislike them.

              Then, you have those who constantly vote for the one party, regardless of actual policies, and do nothing to hold their chosen representatives accountable when they breach international or local laws. Given how it happens on both sides, let's call that 30%.

              Then, we can add about another 10% for either the extreme right or left wing loonies who demand the rest of the world HAS to work the way they want, regardless of whether that way works in reality.

              So there is justifiable dislike and/or hatred for 80% the US populace.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Stop

                Excuse me....

                ...4chan/b is that way ------>

                Please all of you just grow up. It's like a childish school yard squabble just on a global scale.

                The word you need to look up is xenophobia, once playtime is over, go back you your respective schools and look it up.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            "So you don't like US citizens because of policies the US government "

            No, that's not what I meant. In fact, I'll go as far as to apologise if that's what came across. I have American friends, I generally like American people, and warts-n-all I admire the US as a country.

            What I was getting at was the point you were coming to, that the wider reputation of the USA, people included has been really, really harmed by the actions that I mentioned, and that are indeed the actions of your political elite. My own (UK) government are culpable on 50% of the examples mentioned, and it has likewise harmed our global standing, and the reputation of the Brits as a people.

            1. Fink-Nottle
              Trollface

              "So you don't like US citizens because of policies the US government "?

              That's just not true. We don't like the United States as a country because of the policies of the US government. We don't like US citizens because - as the original poster pointed out - they are loud, boisterous, obnoxious and uninformed of the local culture.

              1. Mexflyboy
                FAIL

                Sadly, US not the only one...

                The problem is that I don't understand the hypocrisy of Brits hating Americans for being "loud" and "stupid"... I've been here in the UK for 14 years now, and I have seen Brits in action here and abroad (especially Italy and Spain), and they're equally drunk, stupid, and loud.. SOMEONE is buying the Daily Mail and the Sun here in the UK (shite "newspapers" requiring the IQ of a pet rock), and going by UK culture/television (Big Brother & other vapid shows etc.) I'd say the majority of the UK populace is equally thick as shit as the US population.

                1. Chris Parsons Silver badge

                  Re: Sadly, US not the only one...

                  And, sadly, you are correct. Culture, manners, style and taste have all declined catastrophically in the last forty years. It's all 'me...me...me' and everything, but everything has to be somebody's fault.

                  End of rant.

        2. g e

          You might have missed

          The US offering newly be-rubbled countries 'rebuilding' aid provided, naturally, by US construction corps who go in, milk all the money out of the country and then bugger off leaving them newly be-skinted as well as be-rubbled. Then they have to go to the IMF or World Bank (or whichever it is this month) and beg for money on terms dictated by powerful western nations (to not point fingers any further).

      3. Spoonsinger

        re:- " Brits don't like us because we don't use the letter U in every second word..."

        I suspect the "Brit's" don't like the US because you took advantage of somewhat significant European and Eastern events during the first half of the 20th century which effected the "Brits" trade. Admittedly the US did turn up - late both times - but only after agreements which effectively neutered the resolve of the "Brit's", and then only to protect US economic expansion. Nicely done in the short term, but a bit buggered with China coming onto the scene.

        1. Adam 1

          Re: re:- " Brits don't like us because we don't use the letter U in every second word..."

          > Admittedly the US did turn up - late both times - but only after agreements which effectively neutered the resolve of the "Brit's", and then only to protect US economic expansion.

          Hmmm. Normally it is the residents of the land of the free that I seem to encounter who don't seem to know their own history but love to point out the failures of others.

          While yes, the US took a long time to realise that an isolationist position was untenable, I suspect that a certain nation behaving like dicks in the Ukraine at the moment might offer a slightly different viewpoint about the length of time taken to open up the western front. The alliance with Stalin was never more than that of a common enemy and from a British point of view it was preferable for the Nazi and communists to be killing each other than to become another Spain.

      4. Paratt
        Trollface

        R U A Yankee - Doodle - Dandy - Pandy!?!

    2. Someone Else Silver badge
      Unhappy

      @ Anon Coward (initial poster)

      The US really are hated the world over, and they can't see why...basically, they are Vicky Pollard.

      Actually, no, we're George Bush Dick Cheney. (In spite of the best intentions of some, nay, most of us....)

    3. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Anon Cluetard

      "The US need to grow the fuck up and stop acting like the self absorbed teenagers of the world and threatening our citizens...." No, people like McKinnon need to 'grow up the fuck up' and stop,thinking they can commit criminal acts with no resulting comebacks. This current round of whining by McKinnon and co has NOTHING to do with the US, they have not said they plan to extradite him, it is just a publicity stunt on McKinnon's part.

      1. Bloakey1
        Coat

        Re: Anon Cluetard

        <snip>

        "This current round of whining by McKinnon and co has NOTHING to do with the US, they have not said they plan to extradite him, it is just a publicity stunt on McKinnon's part."

        I agree Matt. The laws regarding extradition apply to the whole of the UK as do the Europeans laws on human rights etc. It is a load of old rubbish and I am no friend of the US but do think that he had a case to answer. Hiding behind some objective medical ruling in the new "I am not responsible for my own actions" society is crap.

        he has just launched a new business and he needs a bit of spin and publicity at the moment. In my opinion he should shut the fsck up and thank <insert deity> for his continued freedom for his criminal acts.

        I liked the demonstration done by the women of Iran around the first Gulf war. They gave themselves brazillians and paraded naked in the main square. The chant that was heard emanating from the ululating crowd was "read our lips no more Bush". Errr, too hot here for a coat, will a t shirt do?

    4. Paratt
      WTF?

      Who is Vicky Pollard?!? & does the US really care!?!

  3. MassiveBob

    Free extradition for Scottish

    Since he's Scottish, if he does get extradited, he will get it for free. While if he came from the rest of UK (RUK), he will have to pay the extradition costs himself...

  4. hardboiledphil
    Facepalm

    How about not telling the newspapers and just getting the train up there. Unless they have black ops watching his father in hospital how will they know he's there. There was no passport control last time I crossed the Borders. Maybe best not to use the credit card to buy the ticket mind.

    1. Velv

      I doubt the Merkins were even aware of the different jurisdictions jeopardy otherwise they'd already have tried something surreptitious to make him visit Scotland then nab him while there. Oh, little bit of a conspiracy theory there.

      1. jonathanb Silver badge

        They are aware of the difference, certainly after Abdul Al-Megrabi (lockerbie bomber) was released from prison on compassionate grounds by the Scottish Justice Secretary, and the English government told them they had no powers to intervene because it was a different country. It should be noted that the English Justice Secretary took the same action with regards to Ronnie Biggs at around the same time.

        Another suggestion I would as is that he should not fly to Scotland, he should go by road or rail. Airlines are required to check the ID of people flying on their planes, and usually people show their passport though most airlines will accept alternative forms of ID.

        1. Bloakey1

          "They are aware of the difference, certainly after Abdul Al-Megrabi (lockerbie bomber) "

          <snip>

          Another load of old bollocks foisted on us by the US.

          USS Vincennes + Iranian Airbus=Iran+George Habash+PFLP+Pan Am flight 103 = Revenge by Iran.

          I have been saying that for years and at the time was involved with it all. Libya was the US bug bear then and they were fingered rather than Iran. Iran comissioned the PFLP through the auspices of George Habash to do the deed. The nearest Libya got was the meetings in Malta between some Arab Intelligence agencies.

    2. Killing Time

      Paranoia or Publicity?

      I think hardboiledphil has nailed it. So jump in the car and be there and back in a day. It's either total paranoia or a little publicity for the new project.

      Personally, I would be rather embarrassed if my mother was talking publicly for me at forty eight, no matter what my 'condition', but hey ho, it takes all sorts I suppose.

      1. Gordon 10

        Re: Paranoia or Publicity?

        Indeed my first thought on this was attention whore.

    3. Suricou Raven

      He hacked US military systems. Even if he did achieve this more by luck than skill, he probably still has a man from the NSA reading every email and IM conversation he has.

      1. MrZoolook

        "He hacked US military systems. Even if he did achieve this more by luck than skill, he probably still has a man from the NSA reading every email and IM conversation he has."

        Hacked it by using the default user/password combination. Frankly the US government should be thanking him for exposing and highlighting the incompetence of the sys admins. He did them a favour and showed them they needed to, you know, actually secure their security services own secure systems.

        The ungrateful gits.

  5. Mark 85

    This seriously sucks...

    I wish our government (US) would just leave the poor guy alone. He's been through hell and now this. For a supposedly "Christian" country (per the forefathers) we sure don't believe in "doing unto others as we would have them do unto us".

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This seriously sucks...

      That quote is only ever used by people in authority to tell you to be nice to others. It never applies to them

    2. Anonymous Coward 101

      Re: This seriously sucks...

      'I wish our government (US) would just leave the poor guy alone.'

      Where is it written that the US government have bothered him since he won his extradition battle?

      1. bigtimehustler

        Re: This seriously sucks...

        The fact he is still wanted by interpol perhaps? Meaning he can not visit any other country. If they were decent they would withdraw the interpol arrest warrant.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This seriously sucks...

      I wish our government (US) would just leave the poor guy alone. He's been through hell

      Yeah poor Gary. Committing and admitting to a serious crime and not serving any jail time. Hell is an understatement

      1. Someone Else Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: This seriously sucks...

        Tell you what: I'll worry about punishing Gary for his "serious crime" on the very same day I start seeing perp-walks by the CEOs, presidents and board members of all the 5 largest banks that caused the failure of the global economy in 2008.

        Moron!

  6. Anonymous Coward 101

    Special Snowflake

    Is there any example of extradition being refused in England and Wales and granted in Scotland? I will eat my hat if the answer to this is 'Yes'. Even if there is an example of this, does anybody seriously think that the Scottish Government would grand extradition when Teresa May didn't? Of course not. In that case, why on earth is GM actually drawing attention to this 'problem', when nobody would otherwise know or care?

    Gary McKinnon should accept that he won his extradition battle and leave it at that.

    1. vagabondo
      Childcatcher

      Re: Special Snowflake

      "Is there any example of ... "

      If they tried there would first have to be an application to the Procurator Fiscal Service and persuade them that Gary McKinnon was resident in Scotland. Then there is the matter of applying legislation retrospectively in Scotland -- he was investigated (and no case found) for this alleged crime by the English police in 2001. Following that it would be referred back to the Home Secretary because:

      "As extradition is a reserved matter the Home Office has overall responsibility for the extradition policy of the UK. " -- scotland.gov.uk

      " ... why on earth is GM actually drawing attention to this ... "

      The Guardian article makes much reference to Gary McKinnons new SEO business. So I guess this story emanates from a press release whose principle aim is promoting the business, and pushing his web site up the search engine ranks.

  7. Shady
    Joke

    Drive a few miles south...

    ... tweet "on way to holiday in Penzance! #Suckers"... turn around, drive due north a few hundred miles...

    Unless I missed the bit about requiring to go through customs when you visit Scotland (from England).

    1. Dave Bell

      Re: Drive a few miles south...

      Customs of Scotland do check you when you leave Scotland, to ensure you have the required amount of whisky, haggis, and porridge. If you don't, they force a White Heather Club DVD on you.

  8. Arachnoid

    And when Scotland gets independance

    Will it still be in the EU and thus under any obligation in this regard after all English Parliament seems to be awash with rumor it is going to circumvent those very laws even in the EU.

    "Scottish Ministers also have no power to act in contravention of the European Convention on Human Rights,"

    1. vagabondo
      Facepalm

      Re: And when Scotland gets independance

      The European Convention on Human Rights belongs to the Council of Europe, not the EU. E.G. Russia, Azerbaijan and Monaco are signatories without being members of the EU.

      1. qwertyuiop

        Re: And when Scotland gets independance

        ....and the ECHR was largely written by British lawyers when it was drafted in 1950.

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: And when Scotland gets independance

      "after all English Parliament seems to be awash with rumor"

      Which ""English Parliament" would that be?

  9. Someone Else Silver badge
    Megaphone

    I suppose it all comes down to...

    ...how much of a subservient, submissive lapdog to the US the Scots wish to be. I'm no expert, but when presented like that, I'd expect the Scots to tell the US (in their own semi-intelligible dialect), "Bugger off!"

    1. gotes

      Re: I suppose it all comes down to...

      You mean "get tae fuck"?

  10. Turtle

    Yes Indeed.

    "UK Home Secretary Theresa May withdrew an extradition order against McKinnon, who allegedly suffers from Asperger's Syndrome"

    FFY.

  11. Jamie Jones Silver badge
    Flame

    More anti-US bashing

    A while back, I defended criticisms of American policies in response to a post by 'asdf', by noting that criticisms were more apparent because of the Snowdon leaks, and we Brits would welcome justifiable criticism from our American pals regarding GCHQ, the government, the weather etc.

    I've always felt there's a tendency for Americans to get too defensive over criticism, maybe due to their huge patriotism.

    Whilst I still hold that general view, I have since realised I was wrong about this site.

    Since then I have noticed that any trivial excuse is used to trot out the same tired old anti-US jibes.

    By my non-scientific evidence, Americans are the second highest readership of the Reg, by count (second only to the UK) - I'm beginning to wonder why they bother.

    Ho-hum.

    1. Oninoshiko

      Re: More anti-US bashing

      Because, on the whole, Americans are used to it, and don't give two fucks about it. Overall the commentary on elReg is amusing, and the stereotypes of Americans are laughable.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: More anti-US bashing

      >> By my non-scientific evidence, Americans are the second highest readership of the Reg, by count (second only to the UK) - I'm beginning to wonder why they bother.

      Possibly the highest and almost certainly if you don't restrict "Americans" to citizens of the USA. "They" probably still bother with the reg for the same reason that you do: to have the piss taken. Where would you like me to put it?

      Not every comment stream ends up like the above bollocks. Me? I love 'mercania and all who sail in her, but I will agree with whomever (above) whittered on about our strange love of the froggy -our rather than -or. I will obviously fight to the death for "disc" over "disk" however, regardless of etymology.

      Cheers

      Jon

    3. Archie1954

      Re: More anti-US bashing

      You along with many others are always tired of the truth!

  12. john devoy

    You see a lot of US bashing because the US makes it so easy.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Boo hoo for you

    As ye sow, so shall ye reap. It would be a real shame if Gary ran head first into a bullet.

  14. JaitcH
    WTF?

    I didn't know Scotland ...

    was a signatory to the international agreement that bLIAR signed (remember Blunkett).

    And I thought Scotland was presently part of the United Kingdom.

  15. Truth4u

    They should get wicker man on his ass

    and give that motherfucker

    THE BEES

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re. Mckinnon

    As a fellow Aspie, I find the way Mckinnon has been treated to be not only against his human rights, but against the Constitution as well.

    As for those who say he is guilty of hacking, all the "offences" of which he is accused would never stand up in court and as for the financial damage done most of that was due to eejits not setting up the computer system properly in the first place; he simply revealed their incompetence.

    Also a lot of the information he found later turned out to have been planted intentionally by administrators to entrap him, this was revealed in a classified memo soon to be released by Wikileaks.

    1. Bloakey1

      Re: Re. Mckinnon

      "As a fellow Aspie, I find the way Mckinnon has been treated to be not only against his human rights, but against the Constitution as well."

      A lot of us hereabouts are on the spectrum so no big deal. Whose constitution? I did not realise the UK had one so you must mean the US.

      He committed crimes and ought to answer for them.

      Admins created honey pots, err what is your point here? By the time he got to them he had broken into the system and had committed a crime.

      1. BongoJoe

        Re: Re. Mckinnon

        " I did not realise the UK had one "

        I take it that you're joking. Either that or you're massively ill-informed.

        Just because we don't have our rules set out on a single sheet of paper signed by a bunch of slave owners doesn't mean that the UK doesn't have a constitution.

        Far from it. Because the UK has been going for so long the constitution in terms of statute is so massive there's even a branch of the legal system called "Constitutional Law" which may give a clue as to what it's all about.

        If the United Kingdom only came about 250 years ago after slaughtering all the locals in a massive genocidal act then perhaps we'd only need one sheet of paper and a crayon.

        1. Bloakey1

          Re: Re. Mckinnon

          "I take it that you're joking. Either that or you're massively ill-informed.

          Just because we don't have our rules set out on a single sheet of paper signed by a bunch of slave owners doesn't mean that the UK doesn't have a constitution"

          <snip>

          Not joking, I have never seen a written version or even learned owt about it at school back in the day.

          So I would put it to you it does not really have a constitution per se. What it has is a set of laws and structures that can be easily changed and are not set out for all to see in one document. Sooo, I would put it to you again that a bunch of documents that can be chanhged willy nilly does not a constitution make. All the waffle about the sum of the body politic etc. does not mean a lot to me.

          1. BongoJoe

            Re: Re. Mckinnon

            Well, one of the first documents was arguably the Magna Carta and it grew from there.

            Where does it say that the constitution has to be on a single sheet of paper?

            The Constitution defines things such as two houses in Parliament; one for the commoners and one for peers of the realm and various religious types. Between these two they create the laws. Then there is the judicial system which falls into the role of the constitution who decipher the law and then on the top of that there's the monarch whose main task is to ensure that the constition of the realm is adhered to and protected.

            In short, it's the whole system and it framsework and then, from within, the laws are made.

            The British constitution is not to be comfused with the statute book.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom

  17. Paul Johnston
    Pint

    loud, boisterous, obnoxious and uninformed of the local culture.

    In my experience that covers a lot of countries, not just the USA.

    "Brits on the piss" is not a nice sight as I'm sure lots of people can testify to.

  18. JCitizen
    Devil

    As per Brits bashing the US..

    First off we can take it - thank you very much! I think we resemble that remark or more! HA! But you guys are ruining Obummer's pledge to make us more likable all over the world! Your messing up his campaign promise! Don't you feel guilty about that? >snicker-smirk< It seems the world has only become worse with his "Leadership".

    signed

    One proud 'Merkin!

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Drive a few miles south...

    ... tweet "on way to holiday in Penzance! #Suckers"... turn around, drive due north a few hundred miles.."

    GPS info from mobile phone tracked by nsa?

    they force a White Heather Club DVD on you.

    Oh, God, you've brought back tortured memories of Hogmanay on the BBC way back when.....

    Andy Stewart singing "Donald, where's yer troosers..." Arrrrggghhhhh! Damn you!

    For the masochists here assembled :

    http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DEqtFnAZu1YI&sa=U&ei=JAreU_f2C-Gz0QWpnYDAAQ&ved=0CDkQtwIwCg&usg=AFQjCNFu4LWt6VhcUUSbK94qbXmAffL0QA

  20. Shaha Alam
    Big Brother

    we used to be able to travel around this country rather freely...

    without worrying about being extradited to the US.

    what happened?

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Meh

    Americans

    I dont dislike americans, nor citizens of the USA I haven't met any objectionable ones myself - well no more objectionable than UK citizens. However, I can find it in me to despise many of the actions of the recent Govermnment & political elites - they have managed to ruin a perfectly good constitutional experiment.

    The Mckinnon thing - he should have no problems in Scotland despite argubly being guilty - it was only that should he be extradited to the USA for it that was really objected to. Perhaps, he should have been charged here, I'm sure they could have done that if they had wanted. Having Assies is not a failure of knowing what is or is not legal or good&evil - but what do I know not being a mental specialist.

  22. Archie1954

    Hacker

    His worry is not Scotland, it is US rendition. The World now knows for certain that the US government respects no international laws and most egregiously, no national laws, not even its own!

  23. Former Spook
    Alien

    The Brits should just stop!

    While the Brits are bashing the United States just remember this, if it wasn't for the United States you'd be speaking German!

    Have a nice day!

    1. mad_dr

      Re: The Brits should just stop!

      And if you have a clue what you're talking about, you'd realise that if not for the Brits, Aussies, Canadians and a whole load more folks, the Americans would be speaking German along with us...

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