back to article The enemy of my enemy is my, well, temporary ally: Apple and Microsoft in pact against Google

Apple has used its annual Worldwide Developers Conference, held this week in San Francisco, to play internet giants against each other. On Monday, the iPhone maker revealed a pact with Microsoft to make Bing the default web search engine for its desktops and devices – swapping out Google. The change will affect Spotlight in …

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  1. Lionel Baden
    Pirate

    well ...

    Who do i Make fun of here.

    Im torn !!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: well ...

      First one, then the other, then go back to the first and repeat. Easy peasy.

      They deserve each other.

      1. Bill Neal

        Re: well ...

        Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia

  2. Mtech25
    Alert

    Bing on Mac's

    Its the end of the world Human sacrifice cats and dogs living together..... mass Hysteria!

    Hold on a second Microsoft owns part of apple this actually makes sense now.

    1. Chas

      Re: Bing on Mac's

      Gawd!

      Not that old "Microsoft owns part of Apple" sawhorse. FYI, in 1997 MS purchased 150,000 shares of Series A nonvoting convertible preferred stock at $1,000 per share. They sold their entire holding several years later.

      Ergo, Microsoft do NOT own any part of Apple and haven't done for over ten years. Go take a gander at Apple's 2003 10-K filing.

      To quote F.E. Smith, you may be none the wiser but at least you're now better informed.

      =:~)

      1. Mother Hubbard
        WTF?

        Re: Bing on Mac's

        I actually thought they were competitors .. isn't Microsoft a phone company now?

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Noboby uses Bing for a good reason

    it sucks badly. The only losers in this deal are Apple. They have further screwed up their product by excluding superior Google offerings for commercial reasons, rather than what their customers want to use.

    Apple Maps fiasco all over again.

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Noboby uses Bing for a good reason

      Since people use bing are you saying people use bing for a bad reason?

      It works OK on the rare times I use it. Kind of seems much of a muchness with Google really.

      1. jnffarrell1

        Re: Noboby uses Bing for a good reason

        Knowledge graphs, conversational voice search are basic technologies that Google and MS share. Now that the PR genius behind Scroogled is no longer in control, MS is free to provide personal assistance based on (horror of horrors) private personal info. MS, Google and Apple all know that Notes during the user's day are the key to scoring sales credit.

    2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: Noboby uses Bing for a good reason

      Apple Maps fiasco all over again.

      Firstly I don't think Bing's all that bad. Oh, except Bing maps. Which I used a few times on my old Nokia Lumia, and sucked. Fortunately I had HERE maps from Nokia, so it didn't matter. I've been using Bing occasionally for the last few months - and it doesn't seem to be all that different. One of these days I might change my default search to it, but although it doesn't seem any worse, it also doesn't seem any better.

      As for the Apple Maps fiasco, didn't Google force that on Apple? As I recall they wouldn't license voice navigation to them, so the iPhone would no longer have been able to operate as a sat-nav.

      Given all the advantages of keeping the iPhone customers (all that lovely data), the cash from Apple, and avoiding the risk of looking too monopolistic, that always looked like a rather short-sighted decision from Google. One they may come to regret now.

      1. auburnman

        Re: Noboby uses Bing for a good reason

        "I don't think Bing's all that bad. Oh, except Bing maps. Which I used a few times on my old Nokia Lumia, and sucked."

        MultiMap.com was my favourite Map site until they got borged by MS and became Bing Maps. Within a few days of the new logos appearing on the site maps were displaying incorrectly or not showing up at all in the browser. Microsoft pushed me onto Google maps by F'ing up a perfevtly good product.

      2. h3

        Re: Noboby uses Bing for a good reason

        Bing Maps is good at least with the ordinance survey maps turned on. (Best data there is for the UK).

      3. cambsukguy

        Re: Noboby uses Bing for a good reason

        The good news is that Nokia phones use the same data for Bing maps now as Nokia/Here maps, built-in, no data connection required. The Here maps do have the extremely useful indoor complex directories such as where every telephone, toilet and lift etc. is in a given airport as well as the floor plan and departments for Harrods and other shopping emporia (and they look marginally better I think). And yes, they are built-in too, also requiring no data connection. Believe it or not but they have the platforms and toilets etc. for railway stations too, amazing.

        As for Bing itself, people constantly bang on about it but I was tracking a flight today, which happened to be delayed by a reasonable amount of time.

        For some reason FlightStats couldn't track it (large body of water, I don't think so) so I type track flight into Bing and looked at the options only to see a special 'result' detailing the flight information.

        The point is, however, that it showed all the relevant info AND the fact that it was delayed along with the expected TOA etc. as well as a link to track it live (which went to the non-working FlightStats!)

        So, as a fair person, having not done it before, I entered the info into Google, another popular search engine, only to have it display a natty picture of the plane flying across the screen (ok, stationary at its expected fraction of the flight time across the screen).

        The difference was, of course, that it had no information whatsoever about the delay or expected arrival times, so, effectively useless except to see what the time it might have arrived at. Certainly hopeless for anything useful.

        So, apart from liking the pictures more, especially the clever ones, Bing can also outdo Google at its main job, search, at least on occasion.

        The fact that I get by just fine with it suggests it is fit for purpose and a nice plus is that video results are not always the YouTube ones (and that they play in preview so you can avoid spammy ones more easily).

        And of course, in the UK, you get direct access to OS maps, unparalleled for walkers and other off-the-beaten-track types. I wish to God (no other suitable phrase comes to mind) that OS maps were available on WP Bing maps, even online only to satisfy those OS peeps. Failing that, an app from them that was as good as the OS maps app that disappeared from the store.

        Just seen todays Bing 'video', very nice one indeed.

        1. smartypants

          Re: Noboby uses Bing for a good reason

          I use Bing in two situations where Google Maps can't help:

          1) It lets you view the OS 1:50000 and 1:25000 maps.

          2) Its isometric aerial shots are often very good for getting an overview of an area, especially since you can rotate 90 degrees to get four different views of the same place - better than overhead satellite shots.

          Unfortunately, even the desktop version suffers from quite easily-fixed issues with interaction with the mouse, which always drives me away to google maps when I don't want to use those features above.

        2. Getriebe

          Re: Noboby uses Bing for a good reason

          "OS maps were available on WP Bing maps,"

          Agree with all your comments on the Ordnance.

          Now, as you say, if we had the old 2.5" series on the WP wouldn't that be spiffing?

          And even better we could have Series 1 OS on the phone. Double spiffing!!

          1. joningram

            Re: Noboby uses Bing for a good reason

            If you want a Google Maps (or Bing Maps) like site for old OS maps, this may make your day:

            http://maps.nls.uk/os/

            No idea if it works on WP but it works well on my Android phone.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        didn't Google force that on Apple?

        No, urban myth created by iTards to come up with a credible reason why they had to suffer Apple Maps (which still sucks to the this day).

        Enjoy the downgrade is all I can say. Apple know what's best for Apple...

    3. jof62

      Re: Noboby uses Bing for a good reason

      Actually the less google I have on my devices the happpier I am, and I am sure there are many others that feel the same way

    4. O RLY

      Re: Noboby uses Bing for a good reason

      They're excluding nothing. All they've done is change the default search engine, something which punters can easily remedy under Safari's settings.

  4. M_W

    Did anyone else see the enormous u-turn here?

    Back in 2008, Apple morphed .mac into MobileMe and had a feature called iDisk, which was essentially the same thing as Dropbox but integrated into the OS on both the iPhone and Mac. I used to use it all the time - was quite useful to keep stuff in the cloud at the time. It was the days before Google Drive, and not many people used Dropbox.

    Then in 2011 it announced iCloud and killed iDisk in the process. And Google Drive appeared almost at the same time and Dropbox grew and grew.

    Now it's announced iCloud Drive. Isn't that Apple just turning back on the iDisk service that it turned off in 2012 when it killed MobileMe?

    1. Mike Bell

      Re: Did anyone else see the enormous u-turn here?

      No. Have a look to see what it's for.

      http://www.apple.com/ios/ios8/icloud-drive/

      This is more than MobileMe - a failed toe-in-the-water exercise - could do.

    2. chr0m4t1c

      Re: Did anyone else see the enormous u-turn here?

      It think they're slightly different offerinings, but it certainly suggests a short memory from everyone suggesting that it's a new foray into cloud storage that will have people like Dropbox worried.

      As you say, they offered something similar that was discontinued two years ago and they've now brought it back, why are people getting in a flap?

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    And the top query on bing will be...

    "How to change search to google on Mac"

    1. Ian 55

      Second will be

      "How much did Microsoft pay Apple for this"

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Second will be

        You realize Google pays Apple for the search traffic that comes from iPhones today, right? Until early 2013, Google was making more money off iOS than Android for search queries.

  6. James 51

    I was going to ask about DuckDuckGo, nice to see it included.

  7. msknight Silver badge

    Say what you like...

    ...and I do use DuckDuckGo instead of Google on principle, but there are searches for which I do have to switch back to Google, because it finds what I need. Bing and DuckDuckGo, don't.

    I fear users will not like Apple for this move once their search result take a nose dive.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Say what you like...

      Most won't notice. Those who do can download the Google Search app and use it instead, just like they can download the Google Maps app and use it if they prefer it.

      Actually, given the announcement that iOS8 will add secure APIs for apps to communicate and replace OS level functions such the keyboard, it might be possible to have searches on the iPhone work via the Google Search app and maps functionality work via the Google Maps app. So this might be much ado about nothing - those who care can use what they want, those who don't are steered away from Google.

  8. Alan Denman

    Nothing has changed whatsoever.

    it has always been about the Microsoft Apple cartel.

    Those phoney wars will continue as it serves this purpose.

    And DuckDuckGo is pretty much all of Bing. The complete lack on principals in this war means few tell you that.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    OneDrive...

    ...Not SkyDrive

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
      Terminator

      Re: OneDrive...

      They should have kept the Sky bit, which Murdoch sued over but everyone remembered and dropped the Drive. SkyNet would have been a great name for their service.

      Although (rather worryingly) the MOD have a satellite comms system called Skynet. What could possibly go wrong?

  10. Mage Silver badge

    Next on Surface

    Sound by Beats.

    Hmm.. Apple Corp. founded by Beatles. with an Apple based logo.

    The Steves like Beatles so use a colored Apple logo and Apple Computer as company.

    Twice Apple gets sued (and loses) by Beatles.

    I have an image in my head of a Kafkaesque giant Beetle munching an Apple while listening to Hip Hop and Rap on giant Headphones.

    Microsoft saved Apple once with real money.

    1. Chas

      Re: Next on Surface

      Just a little fact correcting for you: Apple Computer Inc won against Apple Corp in the High Court on 8th May 2006 before Mr Justice Mann.

      When in 1997 MS bought $150 million of non-voting stock in Apple (which was to fend off a bigger lawsuit by Apple) Apple had over a billion $ cash in hand.

      Don't let facts get in the way of your delusions, though :)

      =:~)

      1. Ian 55

        Re: Next on Surface

        Apple (computers) did lose a couple of earlier cases brought by Apple (Beatles) though.

        1. Mage Silver badge

          Re: Next on Surface

          Exactly what I was alluding to. Perhaps few of today's Commentards had an Apple II. I had one before my ACT Sirius 1 and IBM PC.

  11. knarf

    How about adverts for.....

    "Apple Powered By Microsoft (for now until we can ivent something better)"

    iFanboys will be cheering until the next update. When they will be told to cheer something else.

    1. Frankee Llonnygog

      Re: How about adverts for.....

      Meanwhile the Microsots will be using their free hands to clap at the sight of Redmond extending its Bing

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How about adverts for.....

      IFanboys? Do people actually think like this? Do you in fact work fro the S*n?

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    iSearch

    You know Apple is going to invent Internet Search and save us all from not having internet search, which is what we have now.... or that's what they'll say.

    1. Frankee Llonnygog

      Re: iSearch

      They bin there dun that - see WAIS

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Cost per Gb sounds low - hopefully will push Dropbox prices down to a similar level.

    1. Salts

      Cost is about right, google drive is $1.99 for 100Gb

  14. Bladeforce

    The two old..

    Tech giants now holding hands approaching the cliff...just hope the cliff is high enough to wipe them both out forever

  15. Big_Ted
    FAIL

    2 things

    The article reads as if the iCloud Drive is non Android, if so its a failure for anyone with an android phone or tablet and a mistake by Apple.

    As to bing ? its ok if your in the USA but not so good in the rest of the world, its not as easy as google to use (try looking for shopping results).

    So Apple have shot themselves in both feet (again) and restricted their users from choice once again. Walled garden ? More like a max security prison to me.

  16. Identity
    Boffin

    It's interesting to note

    that 'Bing' is Chinese for 'disease.'

    1. Arctic fox
      Headmaster

      Re: "It's interesting to note................" No, unfortunately.............

      Mainly because there is a nation called China and a population who are generally known in the West as Chinese. However, there is no such thing as "the Chinese language". There is Cantonese, Mandarin etc, etc, etc.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "It's interesting to note................" No, unfortunately.............

        The Chinese do have a national spoken language and it's known in the west as Mandarin - in China this is known as Pu-tong-hua which just means general ( Pu-tong) language (hua). Cantonese, Shanghainese, etc., are dialects that's just spoken in the various of China.

        As far as their written language is concerned - it's the same throughout China and can be understood by the people of all dialects.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's interesting to note

      Probably explains why they're not big fans of Windows 8 with its integrated Bing search.

  17. jnffarrell1

    Personal Entertainment Takes Tbytes of Storage

    To defend the next evolution of smart iPods Apple had to move to the cloud. AI smarts on the cloud is the only way for dummy pocket supercomputers to appear comparatively smart.

  18. returnmyjedi

    Use Bing quite a lot due to work Lumia and it works very well for local searches (integration with Nokia drive is loved by the guys in the field). I still use Google for most other searches though as it seems to order the results in a more sensible way.

  19. IGnatius T Foobar
    FAIL

    Microsoft and Apple FAIL

    Remember how Google lost all that market share when Windows switched to Bing as its default search engine?

    Yeah, neither do I. This will be no different.

    Bing is a piece of crap that nobody wants.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not this decade

    "if, or when, it rolls out its own search alternative"

    Apple don't have the manpower to build a compelling search engine themselves.

    They could buy Wolfram Alpha but that's not traditional search.

    They don't have the infrastructure.

    This is not going to happen any time soon. I wish it would, I'm surprised that the US Authorities haven't looked at Google's dominance and considered the Sherman Act provisions ensure there is true competition.

  21. Rambler88

    Safari already works with DuckDuckGo

    "Apple’s Safari web browser will work with DuckDuckGo"

    I've been using DuckDuckGo on Safari 6.1.4 for about a month. For all I know there is further functionality to be integrated. In fact, if you want to switch search engines, you do have to change preferences, there's no UI switch. Perhaps that's it.

    I just use it for search, and it works pretty well. I've had to go to Google a couple of times, but I normally leave it in DDG and usually don't notice a difference, except the absence of that "Big Brother is watching" feeling.

    I do wonder about Yandex sometimes. (DDG is somehow based on Yandex.) Russia is not exactly Switzerland, and Yandex is all over my access logs so often it gives me the creeps.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Let's face it Apple just have no choice but to team up with one of their enemies to combat their biggest enemy when sales of their phone worldwide had dropped significantly whilst that for Android continue to climb.

    Apple fans would just snuff and say that all these gains are just happening in the 3rd world but unfortunately it's in their home market the USA that Android had made the biggest gain rising from 49% (1Q-2013) to almost 58% (1Q-2014) while that for Apple fell from nearly 44% to just 36%.

    The 2nd and 3rd quarters should be interesting to see how Apple is faring in the years to come.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nothing surprising here

    It's the business model, stupid :-). This is all about APPL and MSFT defending a business model that dictates you sell goods and services, for money. Google's business model is disruptive, allowing Google to give things away but then effectively own the end user. Google is so big, that Apple and Microsoft would both struggle to gain critical mass, at Google's own game.

  24. Gerard Krupa

    The technical name for something like this...

    ...is a twact.

  25. Jerome

    WRONG: default web search engine for iOS and OS X will still be Google

    The Bing change is only for Spotlight, as clearly mentioned in the source article, and as appeared during the WWDC keynote.

    I am quite shocked that no one, included the article's author, cared to check that.

  26. Horiatio Ignatius

    So, what does this ultimately say about Yahoo?

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