back to article Michelle Obama speaks out against censorship ... in China

Michelle Obama veered away from the usual niceties of matrimonial diplomacy on Saturday by arguing in a speech at Peking University that internet freedom should be a universal right. FLOTUS is in China with her mother and daughters on a week-long tour designed to build closer ties between the world’s two superpowers and their …

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  1. Ole Juul

    Listening to all citizens is important

    "Because time and again, we have seen that countries are stronger and more prosperous when the voices of and opinions of all their citizens can be heard."

    Some citizens are, of course, taken a little more seriously. We all understand that copyright lobby groups and banks, to just name two, are particularly important citizens. Still, it's nice to hear that the voices of all US citizens are being heard and no one is left out. That is why the NSA is so important to western democracy. Yes, I totally get where Michelle is coming from.

  2. Combat Wombat
    FAIL

    Standard US policy continues

    Do as we say, not as we do...

    1. Vociferous

      Re: Standard US policy continues

      Speaking of fail: how is the US censoring you?

      Here, look at this:

      Obama is an idiot, and Snowden is a hero for stealing tons of state secrets. I'll even post a link: http://www.nationaljournal.com/defense/everything-we-learned-from-edward-snowden-in-2013-20131231

      Now watch this post get deleted, The Register cautioned, National Journal shut down, and me incarceratedreeducated for the next 20 years. Oh wait, that's what would have happened if this had been in China.

      Do any of you spoiled fucking children even know what censorship is?

      1. James Micallef Silver badge

        Re: Standard US policy continues

        @Vociferous - I agree completely that China and many other countries do not have free speech in the way the west does. But that isn't the point the original poster was making.

        Free Speech = you can say (almost) whatever you want without fear of arrest and/or civil lawsuits

        What Mrs. Obama said = "you can say whatever you want and we (ie leaders of the country) listen to what you (ie 'common' people) have to say"

        Reality in US and many other western countries = you are perfectly free to say (almost) anything you want, but unless you have a very big and very rich lobbying / voter base, absolutely nothing of what you say will be taken into account by politicians when making laws / decisions.

        The OP was merely pointing out that only part of what Mrs Obama asid was true and tehother part was complete bollocks

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Standard US policy continues

          @JamesMicallef

          I think you give too much credit to the original OP. I took it as an attempt, which worked as usual, to get free up votes.

          After all, we all know that anti-US, anti-Microsoft, anti-Apple, snowden-is-a-hero, politicans-are-stoopid, and Linux-will-solve-all-of-humanities-problems+1 posts are easy ways to get up votes on El Reg.

          You did have a good post, although western politicians do listen when there are thousands of voices and/or media taking the side of the people. Try doing protests or talking ill of a politician in China.

  3. Mark 85

    Freedom of Speech.

    Everyone can have it. Just not too much of it.

  4. Vociferous

    Fuck you all.

    Yes, fuck all of you who criticize her for arguing in favor of freedom of speech in an oppressive dictatorship. You're sitting safe in countries where you're not persecuted and imprisoned for saying that it would be nice to be able to criticize the government's policy, and where you can rely on laws, not just bribes and contacts, to protect you from corrupt officials. You bitch about NSA in countries where neither you nor journalists get imprisoned/beaten/murdered for reporting things like the Snowden leak.

    It annoys me to no fucking end how spoiled, whiny, and self-centered westerners are. Censorship in China is not about you. Ukraine is not about you. Iran and Syria and Central African Republic are not about you. Most of you clearly are so sheltered that you don't have the slightest inkling of a clue what oppression is.

    So fuck you all.

    1. 404

      Hero worship...

      Can be embarrassing.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Fuck you all.

      BAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

    3. Lionel Baden

      Re: Fuck you all.

      you nor journalists get imprisoned/beaten/murdered for reporting things like the Snowden leak.

      Umm didnt they try to imprison him and now they are trying to get him tried for treason.

      Treason = jail / death ? suppose it depends what state your in.

      1. James 51

        Re: Fuck you all.

        There was also the partner of the journalist who was arrest in heathrow. They let him go again but not before going through his stuff.

        1. Vociferous

          Re: Fuck you all.

          > They let him go again but not before going through his stuff.

          What? A dude with stolen state secrets in his bags, and they went through his bags to find them???

          Help! Help! I'm being oppressed! Come see the violence inherent in the system!

          1. James 51

            Re: Fuck you all.

            He was the partner of a journalist and even though he was carrying a lot of stuff on him when he was caught, he was eventually allowed to go on his way. Odds are they knew what he had before he even got on the plane. Smacks more of low level harrashment than effective law enforcement.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Fuck you all.

              Is "harrashment" harrassment that's especially harsh? Whatever, it deserves a place in the next generation of dictionaries.

      2. Vociferous

        Re: Fuck you all.

        > didnt they try to imprison him and now they are trying to get him tried for treason

        Snowden is a Chinese spy who stole tons of state secrets and fled the country, of course they'll try to try to catch and imprison him.

        Notice that YOU aren't being imprisoned for talking about it. This thread isn't being deleted because we mentioned his name. The Register isn't being shut down because it reported about it. Even the journalists who disseminated the secrets are free to go about their business, feeling the warm glow of having done a good thing, without risking being tortured or spending the nest 20 years doing hard labor.

        That's the point. Westerners in general and americans in particular are NOT oppressed. You DO have freedom of expression. That's why I tell you to go fuck yourselves when you try to pretend Clinton is a hypocrite for demanding less oppression in China.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Fuck you all.

          subtle oppression is far more productive - most people just don't care so why worry about the handful that do? I'd say that the west is far more effective in their methods. Soft touch, soft touch.

          1. Graham Marsden
            Big Brother

            @Vociferous - Re: Fuck you all.

            'open access to information is “the birthright of every person on this planet”'

            Especially if you are the NSA.

            If you are forced to self-censor because Big Brother wants to look at everything you do, then you are still being censored and repressed, just in a different way.

            1. Vociferous

              Re: @Vociferous - Fuck you all.

              > If you are forced to self-censor because Big Brother wants to look at everything you do, then you are still being censored and repressed, just in a different way.

              No, it just means that you're either a spy or paranoid. The NSA will not kick down your door and drag you off screaming in the night for calling Obama names or supporting Snowden -- but it seems like a lot of you like to pretend that is the case.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: @Vociferous - Fuck you all.

                Vociferous is a pretty funny guy. I hope he always stays this hilarous.

              2. Graham Marsden
                FAIL

                Re: @Vociferous - Fuck you all.

                You missed out "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear"...

          2. Vociferous

            Re: Fuck you all.

            > subtle oppression is far more productive

            Yeah, that's exactly the dumbness I'm talking about. Tell you what, you oppress me subtly by, let's say, reading my email without me knowing, and I'll oppress you unsubtly with a claw hammer, and then we'll compare which is more effective.

        2. Lionel Baden

          Re: Fuck you all.

          Snowden is a Chinese spy who stole tons of state secrets and fled the country, of course they'll try to try to catch and imprison him.

          I'm out your a raving idiot, I make it a personal triumph to spot them and ignore them as soon as possible.

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

    4. GotThumbs

      Re: Fuck you all.

      You want to talk about oppressive leadership?

      http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2009/10/22/escalation-administration-attempts-exclude-fox-news-white-house-pool

      http://rt.com/usa/obama-franken-hostile-journalists-605/

      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/22/us/politics/photographers-protest-white-house-restrictions.html?_r=0

      http://rt.com/usa/mcclatchy-obama-press-photography-402/

    5. Charles Manning

      Re: Fuck you all.

      I think the thing that annoys many people is the complete arrogance of the US. They proclaim themselves "leaders of the free world" and think they have the moral authority to everyone else what to do.

      That might be justified if they were, indeed anywhere near being "leaders of the free world", but they fail on pretty much all fronts:

      * Press freedom index: 46th

      * Economic freedom index: 12th

      * Democracy Index: (doesn't make the top band).

      Perhaps when they get to the top 5 or so, and hold that position for a few years, they have some of that moral authority.

      The words would be far less hollow if they can from the leaders of Norway, Sweden, New Zealand, etc.

      1. Vociferous

        Re: Fuck you all.

        > I think the thing that annoys many people is the complete arrogance of the US.

        Oh the US is incredibly arrogant. The whole "we're God's chosen people and the rest of the world is at best props in our domestic politics" schtick is annoying as fuck. But they are in fact a democracy, and they do in fact have freedom of speech. No ifs or buts. It is dishonest to claim otherwise.

        > The words would be far less hollow if they can from the leaders of Norway, Sweden, New Zealand, etc.

        Really? Did you know there's less freedom of speech there than in the US? For instance being a nazi or a racist is grounds for prosecution and imprisonment in Sweden.

  5. All names Taken
    Paris Hilton

    The shame is her husband (partner) seems so much at the disposal of his advisers, consultants and administrators with ego massaged by them into being intellectual judge of all that is good on the limited menu of options put before him.

    Shame innit?

    (That shame by consequence stretches from US of A worldwide)

    1. h4rm0ny

      It seems to me that Barak Obama gets a special treatment by many. When something wrong has been done, it's often because he was "badly advised" or "limited options put before him". He's a very smart person and a deft politician. When something happens - such as how US Navy Seals seized an oil tanker from Libya last week for being sold without US approval, under Obama's authority, there's no special reason to make excuses. Only that some people wish to support their preconceptions about him.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        All the same, really

        Anyone who gets to be POTUS (or, to a lesser extent, the leader of any nation) has to pass through so many filtering mechanisms that only a particular type of person is eligible. As far as I can see it makes hardly any difference whether (s)he is a Republican or a Democrat, white, black, brown, or candy-striped. One thing you can be quite sure of is (s)he won't be poor. Another is that (s)he has very little freedom of action.

        "The Peter Principle was a book that came out in the 60s, maybe the 70s, which said that in a corporation or in some institution, an employee rises to the level of his incompetence and I suggested that in a foreign policy establishment committed to world domination at any price a person employed by that establishment reaches the highest level of cruelty that they can live with. To put it in simple terms, US foreign policy is cruel, it causes great hardship all over the world. The people who carry out those policies rise in the institutions to the point where they reach a level of cruelty beyond which they can't go, where it's too much for their conscience. The cruelest ones claw their way to the top!"

        - William Blum (interview with Counterpunch, March 2006) http://www.counterpunch.com/corseri04042006.html

        Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. had a more charitable explanation:

        "There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don't know what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nutcases want to be president".

      2. Vociferous

        > When something happens - such as how US Navy Seals seized an oil tanker from Libya last week for being sold without US approval, under Obama's authority, there's no special reason to make excuses.

        Except that the oil tanker was sold by islamist groups to fund terror, and that the US was asked to intervene by the Libyan government.

  6. Hit Snooze
    Alert

    Good Bye Mary...

    “It was quite enlightening to hear about her experience and her struggle. But it's not convenient for me to talk about such issues," English student Mary Yan told The Guardian.

    I hope this student used a fake name, otherwise she'll get invited to have tea at the local police station very soon!

  7. DJ
    FAIL

    "...That’s how we learn what’s really happening in our communities and our country and our world. And that’s how we decide which values and ideas we think are best –- by questioning and debating them vigorously, by listening to all sides of an argument, and by judging for ourselves."

    And then sits quietly while we are told violating our Constitution is legal. And that there's sweet FA we can do about it.

    ...the land of the wee, and the home of the knave!

    (yes, I live here.)

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