Samsung whips out 12.2-inch 'Professional' iPad killers

Samsung has taken aim at the professional end of the tablet market with a new line of "Pro" tablets – including two 12.2-inch models – and in doing so has thrown down the gauntlet to not only all other Android tablet manufacturers, but to Apple and Microsoft as well. "What we always hear consistently is that people want to do …

[ThomH]

Sounds like a fringe use case?

Good on Samsung for offering a range of devices for a range of consumers but surely it's going to be overly bulky? I think laptops get away with it because you put them on a surface to use and then ordinarily sit at arm's length away.

On the plus side, the weight doesn't sound that bad. It's about 750g, apparently, which although 57% heavier than this year's iPad is just 13% heavier than last year's. It's 158% heavier than a Nexus 7 though.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

Bigger screen - what a non-surprise - I'm waiting for the 65-bit (not a typo) processor so they can claim it's more than the iPad. Apple make their stuff power efficient - seems Samsung use large screens to hide larger and larger batteries to get decent runtime.

[eSeM]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

For a long time the Samsung Galaxy Tab 7.7 had the longest battery run time time of any tablet.

HTH

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

Tablet weight is very important - that is why the iPad Air is a big improvement. If I remember a Macbook Air is less than 1.1kg and this device is getting up towards that weight.

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

Tablet weight is very important - that is why the iPad Air is a big improvement. If I remember a Macbook Air is less than 1.1kg and this device is getting up towards that weight.

The weight thing is interesting. I had a tablet PC back in 2008 - old school HP with swivelly keboard. That was too heavy at about 1.2 kg and a 12" screen. But half the price of the slate ones, and still nice to use for reasonable periods. What you couldn't do was plausibly use it as an ebook reader - it was too much after about an hour.

Then I got an iPad. Which was very nice for long periods of use. But the screen is a tiny bit too small, as you do have to zoom quite a few pages (so I'll agree with Samsung on that one). Not a problem I had on my old 12" widescreen HP. That had a stylus too, which I thought was brilliant, but I seem to be in a minority on that opinion.

I'm tempted by the new iPad Air, becuase that weight difference is quite big. But then I could have a 7" 'Droid for £150 - and I'm not really tempted by that, as I think 7" is too small. So I'd perfectly happily keep roughly the same weight as my current iPad 3, for an 11" screen and a stylus. That's quite tempting. But I'm not willing to splash the cash on a new iPad Air, just for the weight reduction.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

@I ain't Spartacus, I have to agree with you re the stylus. I still use my Entourage eDGe (10.1" model) for that very reason, it has a Wacom stylus, even if it does weigh in at 1.5kg.

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

Samsung have various Galaxy Notes now, with 5", 6", 7", 10" and possibly 8" screens. The smallest two being the phones - I can't remember if they have a Note version of their 8" tablet.

My friend has the Note 2 (the measly 5" one), and I must say I like it a lot. Even though I'm not a huge fan of Samsung's take on Android. I need to have a long play with a modern Android tablet, as the only recent 'Droid I've had a lot time with is that Note 2. I'd love to know if stock Android, post version 4, is worth having - for when it comes to replacing my iPad.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bigger doesn't always translate into being better.

Samsung think Apple are doing this so they have got in first, just like the watch.......

It's a ploy to get Samsung to put money into a market that doesn't exist.

[joeW]

I recall similar comments when Samsung started releasing phones bigger than 4.7". Just because a market doesn't exist, it doesn't mean they can't make one.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey with enough advertising dollars and give-aways you can shift anything. I saw Samsung giving away tablets with their cameras the other day - leads me to think either the cameras are poo or too expensive if they can 'give away' a tablet.

[Anonymous Coward]

Samsung also made the first 7" tablet, which at the time Steve jobs said would "never catch on" (or words to that affect)

[Anonymous Coward]

I was working with Boeing out of Seattle in '99/'00 when Airbus announced the A380. Oh, how the Boeing Engineers scoffed, said there was no market for such a huge plane - that no airport would have the infrastructure to support it and it would die a horrible, expensive death - and Boeing would never be so foolish as to make such a huge aircraft when the 747-400 was big enough.

Well of course those airports have accommodated the A380 and Boeing have produced a tweaked version of a 747 in the shape of the -8, much like I guess, Apple will do with the iPad...

[chr0m4t1c]

I think the markets might be slightly different in both size and target demographic.

Sure, I replaced my iPad with an A380, but then I'm not a normal consumer.

[ThomH]

@AC 14:25

I don't think it's safe to assume Apple will respond as they're happy to ignore so many other segments that would be an easy segue — think the upgradeable desktop, the phablet, the netbook and more. They also often don't do very well when they do fill an apparently obvious incremental need, so I suspect that sucks some of the motivation out of the room. See the market performance of the headerless Mac Mini.

The evolution of the iPhone screen is also a relevant case study. They quadrupled the pixels. They switched from 35mm-film style 3:2 to cinematic 16:9. Those are the two changes in seven models.

[Greg D]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

Not really with you there at all.

When working with any kind of document (spread sheets in particular), screen real-estate is king - and I dont mean high res on a tiny little area, cos that involves squinting and text you still cant read.

So not a fringe use case. This is aimed entirely at the working professional.

Still not as good as a laptop though, for many reasons, but mainly x86 apps.

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

When working with any kind of document (spread sheets in particular), screen real-estate is king

With you all the way on that. I'm still distraught that the PlasticLogic Que never made it to market as that, too, targeted the document market. This device is big enough to warrant a proper-sized keyboard as an additional, optional input device / docking station and is obviously, at least in my view, the next step to Android notebooks. Not sure who should be really worried: Apple or Microsoft. If Samsung can get spec, UI, software and price right (yes, that's a big ask) then these devices will be after Microsoft's nice but expensive Pro tablets.

[Greg D]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

The real killer is the x86 app suites, with the 20+ year back catalogue.

Until they port that, or emulate x86 on Android/ARM, AND provide a means of control via AD and group policy, then nothing will end the PC/Laptop dominance in corporate environments.

[mmeier]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

If the price is not to high Samsung could get away with providing the bear necessities of (tablet pc) life:

A HWR on par with Win7/Win8 that works in every part of the system

A MS-Journal compatible notepad application OR a free SNote for Win that understands the Android SNote format (The current one is Samsung only and there are problems)

A full featured OneNote client (The current Android one is not useful), Payware acceptable

A PDF reader with ALL capabilities found in Windows readers (Multi documents, annotation, fast and reliable rendering). Free since that's what I get on Win

A paint program similar to ArtRage4 (for money) or at least FreshPaint (free)

[Dazed and Confused]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

> Until they port that, or emulate x86 on Android/ARM, AND provide a means of control via AD and group policy, then nothing will end the PC/Laptop dominance in corporate environments.

You just wouldn't believe just how exactly like MainFrame Man of the 1980s you sound.

Then businesses found they could do all sorts of stuff they needed to do to run the company without needing to pray to the preist that serviced the main frame.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

As long as you use it with an OS not designed for heavy apps there's little you can do even with a bigger screen. If you aim a tablet to professional users it needs professional apps - those the prospect users are used to work with - and nor Google's nor Samsung's are. Such devices would need "desktop level" apps, and there are none yet for Android. Nice piece of hardware, sure, but it requires a whole new class of Android apps.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

I'd rather a Macbook Air if it's getting that large / heavy TYVM.

[Mark .]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

I'd rather an ASUS Transformer Book - very light as a laptop, and can convert to an even lighter tablet.

Still, choice is a good thing.

[mmeier]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

Okay, I am a big guy used to lug 30kg around the countryside in a former job and still keeping quite fit (1). But even for the average IT "weakling" a unit in the 700-1100g range should be quite useable standing IF it has a stylus and a good handwriting recognition. That way the unit is cradled in the off-hand and written on with the other. And 12''-13'' units can be handled by most humans quite well while having the benefit of being close in size to DIN A4/US Legal, making for a natural reading.

The main questions on the Samsung Note/Pro units are:

How long will they get updates/security fixes?

How stable is the note taking software?

How stable is the software in general?

How good is the HWR by now?

How are they priced compared to a x86 box?

Is the high screen resolution useful or just showmanship?

and most important:

Do you need to interface with a Windows based infrastructure / AD domain etc?

(1) Regularly balancing 1kg weights in one and 4.2kg weights using both hands while standing/kneeling helps as does weight-work and hiking

[Otto is a bear.]

Re: Sounds like a fringe use case?

It all depends on what you want your pad for. I have a Note 10.1 and it's great for meetings, jotting notes and then transferring them to a document for minutes. It isn't however better at heavyweight document processing than my Air or PC/Laptops.

Really the only thing missing for me is the ability to easily drive a projector through an inbuilt VGA or USB connection, so I can dump my laptop when to of the office. BTW most projectors in the wild are still VGA driven, and I don't want to carry a projector with me.

I would probably switch to an iPad if it did native handwriting as I refer the iPad interface.

12 inch iPad or Note really would have a place in business, but do we need a 10 inch as well, hmmmmm

Personal use however is different, as web surfing and film viewing aren't big business needs, and you don't need a bid tablet for those.

[Barry Rueger]

Thin White Colored Folks

At least Samsung is willing to actually admit that computers are not really intended for coloured folks.

My amusement though is on reading "The Note Pro is 7.95 millimeters thick ...By comparison, Apple's 9.7-inch iPad Air is 7.5mm thick."

Is there anyone aside from oh so delicate Apple fanboys who would actually be able to feel a difference of .45 mm?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it's the way the rounded corners and curves fit into my hand.

[iLurker]

They're playing to the dummies in the market...

Ill-conceived - bigger isn't always better.

There is really no point building big tablets that approach laptop screens, when comparable laptops will slay this Samsung on every technical score (eg MacBook Air or similar ultralight notepads).

The whole point of the iPad3 and iPad Air is they are big enough and fast to do what is asked of them, and their weight gives a huge advantage over the bottom end of the laptop market (Macbook Air and similar).

OTOH going smaller doesn't achieve much as the weight of most various forms of physical protection- plus the bag you carry it in - (backshells, sleeves covers etc) approach or even exceed the weight of the device itself.

[Scoular]

Re: They're playing to the dummies in the market...

No need to worry, the market will decide and get it right. If people like it it will sell.

[dssf]

Re: They're playing to the dummies in the market...

That depends. If these tablets can be screen extensions to laptops, then offices might snatch them up quick-like. Expensive extensions, but at least they can act as in-facility walkabout tools to got to meetings -- ad hoc or planned. If Samsung has THAT card up their sleeve, then it might put red rings around the eyes of Retina planner.

My 21.5 inch, lightweight AOC LCD is lighter than my 7.5'lbs 15" laptop, and thinner, and virtually portable. I took it to a meeting to give a presentation away from home, only to be greeted with the option to plug my laptop into a 57" or so wide Samsung (IIRC) monster screen. Of course, I plugged into the monster screen, and even at 1920x1008 or so, it looked GREAT.

But, for those in labs or financial settings where there may be more desire for walkabouts than wall-to-wall, triple-pintle, or lab-desk-banks of screens, screen-extendable tablets might serve some use in some big companies. Samsung just has to accelerate getting the drivers under license or in deployment.

Just my two cents

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: They're playing to the dummies in the market...

The Macbook Air starting at £849 for 11" models is by no means the "bottom end of the laptop market".

Try walking outside of the the Apple Store into the real world for a moment. You can easily get two very capable laptops for less that price and still have change enough to buy yourself a couple of overpriced £25 proprietary 2m lightning cable or 10 generic 2m MicroUSB cables.

[T. F. M. Reader]

Re: They're playing to the dummies in the market...

@iLurker: I would find little use for a 12" tablet since creation of stuff, including writing code and documents and presentations, is such a big part of what I do. A laptop, even if a bit heavier and not larger, would be essential.

But managers, executives, salespeople, etc., who normally only view or present stuff that others create, and are often on the road, may well find it very useful. Those people do not need a keyboard so much, but they do need the screen real estate (and battery). 750g is better than 1.2kg when on the road. A bit of personal entertainment on top of the hotel's pay-per-view will be welcome, too. And the tablet can still do one line emails quite well.

So if Sammy make the "professional" apps work well enough on those thingies in an almost-read-only mode (even an executive changes a spreadsheet cell once in a blue moon), and if these tablts can be hooked to a large screen or projector for presentations, there may be a market. One able to live with premium prices, too.

[mmeier]

Re: They're playing to the dummies in the market...

A good tablet pc is both a useable 12-13'' notebook AND a tablet. Add a BT keyboard/mouse and in no time you have a notebook even with variable distance between screen and keys. Dock can be nice to turn it into a full scale workstation. OTOH if I nedd a device for presentation and note taking - just the tablet part and a Wacom or NTrig stylus and go.

Granted, the software must be there from stable note taking and presentation to desktop style office suits. But if they are - a tablet pc replaces notebook and tablet

[Mark .]

Re: They're playing to the dummies in the market...

Personally I'd much rather have a portable laptop (Samsung laptop or similar) than a pure ~10" tablet. But your argument does seem contradictory - you say this Samsung has no point, as it'll get slayed by laptops on every technical score, but ipads are fast enough to do what is asked of them? Which is it? Is something okay as long as it's fast enough, or not if it'll get beaten on specs by a laptop?

The weight difference isn't that huge - some people were evidently happy with 600-700g 10" tablets for years (including ipads), whilst the lightest laptops are around 1Kg (I think the lightest is a Sony just under 1Kg; ASUS's T100 is just over 1Kg). This Samsung tablet at 750g is still much closer to those tablets. Furthermore, 12" laptops are going to be heavier still.

You can argue in favour or against the larger tablets vs laptops, but I don't think this Samsung device makes a difference to that argument - any advantage or weakness or weight or specs is shared by the other tablets.

"OTOH going smaller doesn't achieve much"

I disagree - I intentionally didn't get a permanent case for my Nexus 7 for that reason, and the time when weight is most important is when it's in my hands. So having under 300g for a tablet that's meant to be hand held device is important in my opinion, and much lighter than any ipad heavy or other large tablet. It also means I can hold one handed, and use with my other hand - meaning it's easy to use without a desk, laying it on my lap, and I can easily use it standing.

When it's in my bag, the weight is of little relevance, I don't notice it any more than I notice my Samsung netbook in my bag. But the size is important - I can slip it into a side pocket of a bag, it takes up that much less space, and I can even put it in a small bag or even my pocket (just about!) which would be impossible for larger tablets.

[DainB]

Actually it would be perfect for reading PDF magazines. Nothing else I can think about.

[TheOtherHobbes]

Sheet music. A bit niche, but carrying a library of scores - or even just one complete score - around in 750g would be quite a thing for the professionals.

The screen is still too small for a full conducting score though.

[mmeier]

IF SNote is finally stable for documents > 10pages AND you have a supported printer in case you need paper versions the 10 and 12'' NOTE units could be a nice replacement for a legal pad. 12'' more so than 10 from experience, the extra "real estate" is worth the weight.

Depending on what software is available under Android by now it might also be a useful Sketchpad (Assuming something like Artrage etc. exists by now) and useable for minor picture touch ups.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is Samsung all over. Seems more like no real, new ideas so we'll copy Apple or copy what we think they are doing and then just make changes to the screen size.

[Anonymous Coward]

Samsung releases something that is similar to something Apple already makes:

"WAAAAH Samsung is copying Apple!"

Samsung makes something that Apple doesn't make:

"WAAAAH Samsung is copying Apple in the future!"

[Lord Elpuss]

Size of a piece of paper

Love the fact that he says size a piece of paper is ideal for reading your morning news on. Because of course all morning news is served in handy A4 size.

Pinching and zooming is for me as much about reducing clutter and distraction on the screen as improving legibility; for example when reading El Reg on my iPad I can read the text perfectly when fully zoomed out, but choose to double-tap on the content column (to make it fill the screen) so I avoid the distraction of ads and links in the left and right columns.

I would do exactly the same on a 12" tablet.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Size of a piece of paper

That's just only as long as you morning news are delivered with an old newspaper design which doesn't adapt to newer ways to consume them.

But for example IE11 in Windows 8 has a feature that reformats a web page to a "reading layout" which gets rid of extraneus elements, and adapts to the screen size automatically. You don't need to pinch and zoom anymore.

The old fixed HTML layout is today something obsolete - news should be delivered in a format which could allow a device to display them in the best way on its target display.

[mmeier]

Re: Size of a piece of paper

HTML may or may not work. But at least for me most of the reading on the tablet pc is PDF and Word/Powerpoint stuff formated to DIN A4. And for that having a unit that can display it automatically at 100 percent is nice. I can zoom etc. but I do not have to.

[Ken Hagan]

Re: "reading layout" and "the old fixed HTML layout"

Sorry? Fixed layout was a retrograde step introduced by cretinous web designers who didn't understand that not every person who viewed their web page was doing so on a similar $1000 CRT (or, for that matter, over the same Fast Ethernet direct connection to the server). *Proper* HTML, as any grumpy geriatric will tell you, has always allowed the user agent to adapt the layout to the limitations of the display device.

Still, fixed layout isn't the worst thing that these cretins have done. I still think that award goes to the benighted fool who first marked up a piece of text with a script that redirected you to another page. (This was about 15 years ago and I was surfing with scripting switched off, so it was actually less functional than an anchor tag.) When I first saw that I nearly knocked off early simply because there was little prospect of me recovering normal mental function without beer.

[Martin-73]

Having more than one window open

as an "Advance". That made me chortle

[messele]

No focus

Yet again no focus, no realisation as to why there was a mass exodus to the tablet for the general use.

I guess we can plainly see which of the turds that Samsung threw stuck to the wall this time round.

[hungee]

stuck in the mud.

My mate bought a note 3 and a Sammy ultrabook recently and I have to admit I was impressed. They are really bringing it to Apple when it comes to features. The way he can interact with the note 3 screen on his (touchscreen) ultrabook and send either display to his TV with a flick of the wrist is not to be sniffed at.

Sammy seems pretty focused on bringing new multitasking paradigms to touchscreen devices and I can't help but be impressed by there vision of interconnection between devices.

It is a shame Apple seems so stuck in the mud and aren't innovating user experience the way they used to. I get it I guess, once you have made up your mind that you did it perfectly the first time... It is hard to imagine new ways of doing it. Ah well at least they gave the rest of the tech industry the kick up the pants they deserved.

Btw. I neither Apple or Samsung

[mmeier]

Re: stuck in the mud.

The big irony is that Apple had a nice stylus based PDA with a, for the time, quite decent HWR (Newton) and likely could bring out an iPen device with better usability/quality and long-term updates than the Note series is.

As for the screen casting - well that is the Miracast standard so basically anyone could support that. Windows tablet pc of the current generation (at least the core-i) do so. I agree it is brilliant (I use the older WIDI standard a lot). Biggest benefit is that there are WIDI/Miracast receivers that act as a HDMI In device for even a non-smart TV or a monitor (or even a beamer). Just plug in the smallish box and go

[Anonymous Coward]

Another Apple Rumour

Turned into a Samsung reality, just like that top selling Galaxy Gear.....

[JDX]

New name for these giant tablets needed

Megaslab is too obvious, what about laplet for a conjunction of laptop and tablet?

[TheOtherHobbes]

Re: New name for these giant tablets needed

Biglet?

Users can be called biggles.

[PaulR79]

Really Samsung?

Are Samsung just waiting for a sufficient Apple rumour to decide what they build next? First the awful, awful Galaxy Gear and now this? Assuming Apple never makes a watch and larger tablet I can see a lot of people laughing at how they can bait Samsung into building stupid devices. Coming soon from Samsung, a device that will change your future.... just as soon as there's a strong enough rumour Apple will build one.

Disclaimer: I detest Apple but Samsung are just making this so obvious now that they don't want to be second to the market and are jumping on strong rumours to avoid it happening.

[Thecowking]

I want one

I can see a lot of use for something that, for example, let me read a website while streaming a video at the same time, or let me chat and have a comic open on the same device.

Two years ago I couldn't see the need for a tablet (check my posting history, it's true). Then I got a nexus 7. Then a Nexus 10, now I can really see that the extra screen and the multiwindow support would be awesome for my usecase. As it stands I'm often sitting on a bus with nexus 7 in one hand watching a film/tv series/anime and my nexus 4 in the other chatting to some people.

I'd _love_ to have them both in the one device.

Ok, it's not for everyone, I can see that.I've been resisting Samsung devices (well nexus 10 aside), because I like the stock android ui too much. This however has the screen size to let me actually use it with a couple of reasonable sized applications so I can forgive the rest of the Samsung ui (which I generally hate, the app drawer and the settings screens especially. Not keen on Odin either)

[Charlie Clark]

Re: I want one

I'd need a bit more from Android to be tempted but I will be definitely tempted by the 8.4 as a replacement to my Galaxy Tab 8.9 - great compromise between size and weight.

[cambsukguy]

Re: I want one

Surface has been doing two apps from the getgo, even if you say it can't run all the x86 apps (people do apparently, presumably without irony and while using iPads), then one can just use it for the fact that it runs two apps on screen at the same time.

TFTFY

[Thecowking]

Re: I want one

I tried to get a surface with the academic offer, it was like getting blood from a stone, eventually I gave up.

Shame really, because the RT was something I wanted, it actually feels like a nice piece of kit in the hand. I just didn't want it enough to pay the full price for it, but I might pick one up on ebay at some point.

As a tablet UI though, I prefer Android partly because I'm used to it, partly because I can hack the crap out of it :P

[mmeier]

Re: I want one

What the ARM version of the Surface family lacks is the key feature of the Note Pro and the Surface/Pro - an inductive digitizer (Wacom here, NTrig would work and is a tad cheaper). With that it would compete with the Note family or Androids. Without it is another overpriced touchy toy.

[Rob]

About time...

... after playing with a 13" Win8 tablet from Wiacom with the entire Adobe software suite on, I've come to realise how useful a tablet this size could be for work. The multiscreen option gets some use on my Note 2 but the screen is too small for the feature, I could imagine it being more useful on a tablet though.

Not quite sure how this size would go down in the home consumer market but for work I could do with something this size, the Wiacom version would be more suited to me due to it running windows software, shame as I like the Samsung connectivity options.

[mmeier]

Re: About time...

Multiscreens usability depends on what you use the unit for. Most of the time in "electronic legal pad" mode I view/edit a document "full screen" even on the 12 and 13'' Windows units here and use tabs to switch between documents and the taskbar to switch between programs. Multi-Windows come into use mostly if I use electronic post it and notification windows.

[JDX]

So basically this is a Star Trek 'clipboard'?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not worth reading comments on Samsung reports; too many Samsung fanboys/shills around.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yay Samsung are great = auto up vote

Told you they spend a lot on marketing didn't I...?

[Darryl]

Not worth reading comments on Samsung reports; too many Apple trolls around whining because people have the nerve to like Samsung.

[Anonymous Coward]

Samsung trolls are worse than Apple trolls - literally anything Apple HAS to be poo and Samsung could badge up a poo and it would be great.

[Anonymous Coward]

Google...

Where's my Nexus 10 v2?

[Boothy]

Re: Google...

Or Nexus 12?

[Anonymous Coward]

If Apple hinted they were going to make a 2" mini tablet Samsung would probably make a 1.9" one.

[Anonymous Coward]

Christ the knockers on this thread are so sad

If you don't want one just don't get one. Your particular use-case might not need this but this utterly blinkered and short-sighted bashing is puerile and pathetic. Me, I'd love one. I've had a Note 10.1 since they came out and it's a brilliant piece of kit and higher res and the bigger screen make this 12.2 absolutely ideal for me for reading and annotating pdf's and the like (seeing as I'm gone back to college).

[Guberno]

When it's has to be referred to as an ipad killer.....they have already lost

[Thecowking]

That's just El reg's little way.

if you can't work apple in to a headline, they don't like reporting on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cue lots of Fandroids saying how bigger tablets make more sense and that Apple should make a bigger one.