OOh lets dangle the maps
in the APP store for Apple users for a while then spread the FUD as to why we pulled it. Problem is Windows phones are just crap. Actually anything Windows is just crap
Nokia has told Apple fanbois to get lost after removing its popular HERE Maps app from the iOS App Store. The Finnish former mobe-maker grumpily blamed its decision on iOS 7, the latest version of Apple's mobile operating system. "We have made the decision to remove our Here Maps app from the Apple App Store because recent …
quote: "Problem is Windows phones are just crap. Actually anything Windows is just crap"
Thanks for the opinion :)
Personally I disagree, I'd say that Windows is approximately as useful as Linux or HPUX (whether on the desktop or in the datacenter), however I realise that personal experience may colour your opinion one way where mine has coloured it the other. Hell, I even know one person who prefers Windows Phone 8 to iOS, however I suspect that may be an edge case ^^;
Make that 2, well three through indirection.
I bought into WP7 and much preferred it to iOS, 8 is even better. Daughter number one bought a WP8 device, even though she uses an iPod and a MacBook Pro...
Funnily enough, her Windows 8 using mother is using an old iPhone 3GS...
I would say due to the number of programs available, Windows or Mac OS still win when it comes to users desktops, but on the server Linux is the way to go as everything you need is available..
The problem with Linux desktop is the lack of support for technologies meaning that while it MIGHT work ok in a restricted business environment, in the home there are too many things not available, to the point I am looking at installing windows for my son soon as his Linux PC doesn't have certain bits of software available and I am dubious whether I can get them working under wine...
For instance there is no Unity Web Player, reducing his online experience,
The lego Mindstorm EV3 software does not work on Linux.
People can choose what they want, its a shame people choose shiny things and have to have specific brands. I myself having a Q10 find most people like it but don't like the Blackberry brand, it seems like Skoda back in the 90's where they were seen as the worst cars ever (Although this might explain why I got a Blackberry and the skip shaped Favorite went on forever).
What a sad repetition of something which was once true. Have you not used a computer in 5 years mate? Yes Windows was not up to scratch but right now it is by far the most secure operating system available for desktop use. Vista put in place a much improved architecture, Windows 7 polished it and 8 continues to make it much more expensive to create malware for the platform. Deluded sheep will continue to parrot the "Windows is crap" line not because it is true but because that old grey beard at work says it so it must be true.
For any Linux OS to come close it would need to implement grsec/pax - please tell me which distros do that without having to play the old 'recompile the kernel' game...and Mac, don't even bother, jailbreak is synonymous with remote 0 day - how long does it take for a jailbreak to come out after each iOS update?
>right now it is by far the most secure operating system available for desktop use
Hmmm, you must have missed the recent CryptoLocker snafu then. Or did I misread and it was a bunch of Linux desktops getting hacked? Macs perhaps?
There are cases where Windows' ecosystem is superior - games or business apps come to mind. And I wouldn't be surprised if Apple were to suffer a major security lapse at some point - user demographics combined with occasional Apple sloppiness (ex: LDAP pwd in cleartext, MacDefender support) make it a tempting target.
But dissing Linux or OSX based on Windows' superior security is a bit surreal. The merits of theoretical MS security for well-managed systems may be debated, but practical MS security for the average consumer's desktop is hardly worth talking about - it only lasts as long as the next malware that shows up.
Reg, can we have an "utterly clueless" icon?
CryptoLocker spreading is not a failure of the Windows operating system - it's spread using social engineering and relies on the stupidity of the recipient to become useable - a bit like the spread of iDevices; you know, people who are more interested in flashing BRANDS rather than content. I'm sure that if there isn't already something like CryptoLocker for iDevices right now there will be shortly.
>CryptoLocker spreading is not a failure of the Windows operating system
I call BS. First, the .exe extension is hidden due to Windows's stupid policy re extension hiding. Fail #1.
Second, the lack of permissions means anything can do anything once launched.
Third, if you spend anytime on a Windows desktop you are bombarded with warnings about ... everything. In an email, I can't open an Excel spreadsheet that I wrote without a warning. If I want to _view_ the system odbc data sources dialog .... warning.
Anybody clever about security will tell you repeat alarms without just cause will result in folks disregarding real ones.
Fourth, if iStuff is so badly put together, how come the malware is almost always on Windows?
"and Mac, don't even bother, jailbreak is synonymous with remote 0 day - how long does it take for a jailbreak to come out after each iOS update?"
Oof, bad time to ask that question. The jailbreak for iOS 7 just came out a couple days ago and the OS was released almost 4 months ago. And if I recall correctly, no jailbreak has been "remote." Jailbreaking has always required physical access to the device, usually (but not always) connecting it to a computer that's running specific software. In other words, iOS is pretty secure.
"Meh, Google offer better maps than Apple and Nokia?"
I use it from time to time and I'm currently using it to get to a single destination. Not because I don't know the way after 4 attempts, but because I love the way it sends me on a different route each time, often enjoying the small back lanes instead of the direct empty A-roads. 4 times, same start, same destination, 4 different routes (none of them the best).
Don't even start me on the time when I made the fatal error of leaving the M25 because of a roadblock and it cheerfully sent me on a 40 mile diversion to the same junction I just got off!.
It's OK is how I'd rate it, nothing more, just OK.
"Problem is Windows phones are just crap. "
I have a Nokia 1020 running WP8 and its far better than my Android Nexus. No lag, good battery life and more fluid to use. Here navigation is far better than Apple maps. Its equal to Google Maps I would say. I think the Navigation is better on Here but then on Google Maps you have extra features like streetview so comes down to personal preference.
Anyway I dont know what Win Phones you have tried but they are defiantly not crap.
I completely agree. They put a web view into an application and didn't even make sure it sourced "retina"-resolution content, so the display was blocky and the user interface slow and obtuse*, then washed their hands of the platform. Given Apple's mapping fumble, there was a fantastic opportunity to grow their user base but Nokia screwed it up.
Google's approach, of taking a few weeks more to come up with something fast and effective, was much more intelligent.
Google maps is far from perfect you know...
Hapless - think you meant HOPELESS drivers - anyone who can follow a sat nav onto a runway does not deserve to be driving. Pretty sure I remember when Google Maps showed a route by car as being across a sea and someone ended up with their car lodged on a cliff after following a (think it was) Garmin unit and let's face it Garmin have done sat-nav / GPS pretty much as long as anyone.
That was how I used to travel across Europe. I got from Southampton to Provence, Austria, Czech Republic and Bavaria with nothing more than a couple of postit notes in the window of my tank bag. The first ones listed the big towns I would have to pass, the last had directions from the entrance to the town/village I was riding to, to the hotel / guest house.
Once, due to severe flooding, I had to take a 60km detour over mountains and came into a little Czech town East of Plzen from a different direction than planned, but still managed to find my destination without getting lost.
On the other hand, I have friends who couldn't find their way to work, if their SatNav didn't tell them which roads to take... :-S
I've tried using the built-in nav systems (Ford, BMW, Mercedes and VW/Audi) and 3rd party ones (TomTom, Navigon, Apple and Google) and I never found them very helpful, they could generally find the town I wanted to get to (so could I, without their help!), but they were useless at the last 500M of the journey, which is generally the only bit most people probably need help with.
My old Ford system always wanted to send me over Frankfurt, when driving from Munich to Osnabrück. Ignoring it and driving straight up the A7 meant about 50KM less and a saving of at least 30 minutes, depending on how much traffic there was around Frankfurt... The navigation systems also tend to send you over Bad Oeynhausen, another 50KM detour, instead of going through Bielefeld. I think Ford believed in the Bielefeld conspiracy... The best (worst?) think was, you had to ignore the sign posts to your destination if you wanted to follow the SatNav!
For the uninitiated, zooming around and through Frankfurt is byzantine and without local knowledge you will probably end up at the airport. A GPS is a big plus actually. I am not sure why your GPS sent you on an inappropriate route, though if you have an Audi, I can sympathise with you ;)
Maybe I just have friendsnwho live in awkward places. Many live in streets that don't exist, according to SatNav systems (and in one case, the house was built in the 70s, so no excuse). Another lives in a street with over 100 houses and it is divided in 2 by a more major road crossing it, the SatNavs don't accept a house number for that street, but put you at the junction with the major road and leave you to work out your actual destination.
Google maps on IOS might get good reviews but on Android (including Google's own devices!) it is now fairly useless if you don't have an unbroken 3G/Wifi signal for the entire length of your journey since it no longer lets you store a section of maps offline. Once it loses a signal it also regularly forgets where you were going and has to be reset. Wonderful. Even street view is less useful than it used to be. The Apple Maps mob must be happy.
And don't even mention TomTom on Android. Look at these stats https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tomtom.ukireland&hl=en
You can still cache, they have just sort of made it harder... You say OK Maps into the search and it will cache your current view, or if you search for a location I think it pops up with abn option to cache...
Personally I would like to be able to cache larger areas, i.e. the whole of the UK or a province etc...
And I would like it more obvious... but hey its free...
Not round here. If I zoom to display approx 10 miles of local towns, 'ok maps', and put the phone into airplane mode (simulating loss of signal) then zoom into a town all I get is a grey line where a road or building is but no names or numbers or colours and no voice. It used to download everything.
Sounds good until you realise Nokia lose money on practically every sale (negative margin 3%, ASP in free-fall according to last results) but that 15% share that Apple have? It earns them hundreds of pounds from every device sale. Rather than continue to lose more money on increasing device sales Nokia would be financially better off with 0% market share (as long as they stopped making Windows Phone products, oh hang on, that's what they're doing isn't it?)
They're stopping making phones full stop.
And given the decline in feature phone sales as everyone migrates to cheap Android, that too is probably for the best. I imagine the downvotes are all from the Windows Phone fanbois - I reckon I've peaked at 3 unless they've got multiple accounts!
Well, the relentless pursuit of market share at the expense of current profit, in the hope of establishing a foothold in the market and recouping the losses at a later time is the strategy of countless failed companies - many of whom were egged on by the mentally defective analysts of Wall Street fame.
Like the or hate them, Apple have avoided, and continue to avoid, the death wish pursuit of market share.
Honestly, to get better maps, you need more users. Maps is not a small thing you can reserve to your walled garden. But Apple would have trouble doing that…
Apple only does software if it helps sell hardware; while Google and Microsoft only sell hardware if it helps sell software. They cannot change this easily.
I love the Nokia maps software on wp8 and the ability to store maps offline, but there is one annoying thing... I set up saved locations, ie friends houses etc. It stores these but as addresses rather than XY coords... So next time I select that location for the sat nav it wants to got to the web to look up the XY... Not good if I'm travelling and don't have roaming on. Why can't it save the XY coords when I save a location?
I also use google maps and apple maps on IPad but neither compares to Nokia
"True to Nokia's word, we could still access HERE Maps using an iPhone web brower, although lazy fanbois would no doubt prefer to have a nice big button to click rather than a long old web address to type in."
Fortunately iOS has the ability to add the link to the home screen as an icon, but don't let that get in the way of the regular Apple-bashing.
What happened El Reg? You used to be genuinely fun and interesting and worth the read for the witty tag-lines alone, but the last few years the pro-Microsoft bias is frankly suspicious. How much do you take from them to peddle the company agenda?
I was in Tesco a few days ago and saw the Motorola G for £99. You can unlock them for £2.04 on eBay. You could buy 5 of these for the price of an IPhone and have enough change to see you through 6 months of a non-handset contract.
Oh, and its maps work great. Unless you've been told to Think Different.
No, I have a Moto G (replacing my Nexus 4*) and the maps is still the same shite Google Maps as every other Android phone. Actually no, it's worse. At least on my Nexus 4 I could uninstall all "upgrades" and get the original edition of Google Maps with working zoom in/out buttons
* That thing about the glass back letting it slide off onto the floor and shatter? Completely true.
"Google Maps shite"
Could you enlighten us all on any mapping software available anywhere you think is better?
Hint: Don't go here or here or you'll end up like the chappie in the icon using one of those to find a place to eat.
I was as shocked as anyone when Apple ditched Google for their premature proprietary system. Especially integrated Street View, which I found very useful. Coupled with my favourite pub being displaced by several hundred metres, I was not impressed.
Recently, however, I used my iPhone on a trip to Japan, and it did a good job of caching large parts of the country when I was using hotel wifi. The past couple of days, I've been using it as a sat nav in my car, and it's done a good job there as well. I like the way it presents driving instructions.
Just saying, Apple's maps aren't all bad.
Mike, the lack of driving instructions was the reason Apple pulled Google Maps - Google refused to offer it in Google Maps as a "Fuck You", because they could. So Apple, being the richest company on the planet simply did their own. The quality of the data in the initial release could have been better, but it is a good appm these days and there is now one less reason to have YAGPTY (yet another Google product tracking you)
"So you'd rather have Apple and the NSA tracking you directly?"
You fandroids are getting more ridiculous everyday! You do know that, as a Google fanboy, you look utterly foolish. Google are even more creepy than Facebook and when someone expresses a preference for Apple's offerings, you actually have the nerve to say that. Utterly delusional!
Unfortunately, the mapping data for Apple maps still sucks (blame Tom-Tom?). The new bridge over the St Lawrence river on Autoroute 30, which has been open for over a year, still hasn't shown up. Apple maps will want you to go across the crumbling Champlain bridge instead.
Google is inaccurate as well - the pub near work is about 300m away from where it really is and we have sent in updated for our office location (also wrong) at least 3 times now over about the last few years - still wrong.
Of course I know the way to / from work without sat nav but I tested Google Maps and Apple Maps side by side - Apple took the optimal route - Google took a longer / slower one. Had mixed results (as you would expect) on other routes - sometimes I'd say (subjectively Google came up with the better route and sometimes Apple did - it certainly was not a case of one being almost always better than the other and of course much of the time they came up with the same route). Of course YMMV but in reality I'd say there is little in it these days.
Isn't apple maps based on open street maps which many gps enthusiasts created by dumping gps traces, which shows public paths that cartographers often miss?
Even if it's not I think openstreetmaps will becoming bigger than any other mapping service as smart phones are cool and not nerdy now and submit far more anonymous traces? I could be wrong. Although I am annoyed at the recent drm lockdown by apple on ios and the lack of emulation of cloud stored music as being on the device by so mixing apps don't crash.and other music apps too. But on the flip side the quality of using itunes streaming is amazing.
I can see how working with Apple is a non-stop pain in the ass. I'd never write an iPhone app unless it had extremely high margins to cover the hassle. My question is why doesn't Nokia sell an Android version? Google Maps is becoming so intrusive about realtime information gathering that it malfunctions on typical cell signals and it runs crippled without a login. The market for other Android map apps is young so even the paid apps are still awfully unrefined. Here's Nokia's chance to make a comeback with a product that they still have. (Don't blow it)
"I can see how working with Apple is a non-stop pain in the ass. I'd never write an iPhone app unless it had extremely high margins to cover the hassle"
Well that's exactly true - Apple users PAY for apps and it's typically easter to develop for the platform (less screen resolutions etc.). You develop for Android to get a lot of non-paying users (which sounds like hassle to me) and you develop for iOS to make some money.
"I'd never write an iPhone app unless it had extremely high margins to cover the hassle" - in the long term, it's much less hassle than an Android app - and this is a significant chunk of the reason why. Between that and the negligible return rate for a huge investment in maintenance time, I for one would be much more inclined to develop for iOS than Android, despite the market share difference.
Nokia wants (and needs) the biggest market share they can get for HERE regardless of platform allegiance. And of course they are grumpy about pulling HERE from the largest mobile market, especially when Apple's own maps issue is a rare gift for alternative providers. They will invest whatever is required to fix whatever the problems are and re-publish as soon as they can.
All mobile platforms have their annoyances (we seem to have them all in my house). Simply criticizing others for having a platform preference, which seems to be the purpose behind many of these comments, is even more annoying, though. Sure, Apple doesn't have (quite) the allure or the power they once commanded, which is not a criticism. It's a natural evolution of any market for challengers to gain ground, regardless of their velocity or success. Who would want it any other way?
>>Simply criticizing others for having a platform preference, which seems to be the purpose behind many of these comments, is even more annoying, though
I can tell you're very new here. Go read any Microsoft, Apple, Android or Linux article. About 70% of the comments are nothing but frothing at the mouth fanboi bullshit. I'm honestly surprised that noone accused you of schilling for $TECH_COMPANY because you attempted to be balanced.
Who was responsible for publishing HERE and who is responsible for pulling HERE now - Microkia or Nokia?
It might be that HERE on iOS was a Nokia app from the mobile phone division that they did not have permission to publish once Nokia's mobile phone division became separated from Nokia and turned into Microkia. All HERE stuff stayed with Nokia and was licensed out to Microkia for a time.
Is it just Nokia pulling this app or is Microkia being told they have to pull the app by Nokia and being told they have to use spread a bit of FUD by Microsoft to save face?
In future for Nokia/Microkia stories it would be more much more enlightening for readers if they were told exactly which who is responsible for doing whatever it is that's being reported (so commentards can better post their fanboi troll bait).
5/10, El Reg, must try harder.
Icon is the new burning platform, WP8.
It's more likely that ISO 7 is just fucking around with developers and the way they design interfaces.
There is no logic is MS forcing Nokia to pull HERE in sutle ploy to get them to move WP8. First fanbois are not going to up and switch for this. Not only is it web base and easily access, you also have googles maps which will work for much of anyhting needed.
Also while MS wants to grow its moblie devices, it's still a software company, and I don't know why you'd sacrafice software market penetration (IE a popular maps app on IOS devices) be taking the risk of pushing the software into absurcirty.
HERE might be good, but its not the "killer" app MS needs for device switching. Its more of a "you need this app to even conisder looking at the phone." Granted they could have just as easily partnered with google for that <---------- Last line is a snowballs chance in hell..
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True to Nokia's word, we could still access HERE Maps using an iPhone web brower, although lazy fanbois would no doubt prefer to have a nice big button to click rather than a long old web address to type in.
This really shows how ignorant you are. You don't even know what a bookmark is. Also if you still do want a big button you could save it to the home screen as such.
Back when I had an E71, I was impressed with the Nokia map offering, where one could pre-install map data for an area so that it wasn't necessary to be on-line while on the move - really useful if you're going abroad and don't want the hassle of roaming charges. I did that a few times, including a trip to Hawaii. that's the one thing you don't get with Google Maps that would be nice - the ability to use it without a connection to the outside world. Of course, they couldn't track you so easily then.
However, it didn't impress me enough that I'd go buy a Windows phone.