ahh the joys of console wars
Always fun to watch with some popcorn.
Mine is the one with a SteamBox OS in the pocket (when it eventually is released)
You have to feel sorry for Microsoft. Sales of its new, next-generation console, the Xbox One, have clearly so far failed to come close to those of Sony’s PlayStation 4. It seems the best it can do in the battle of the console stats is tell us how many hours Xboxers have spent on the thing. Insisting that Xbox One is “ …
"You have to feel sorry for Microsoft. Sales of its new, next-generation console, the Xbox One, have clearly so far failed to come close to those of Sony’s PlayStation 4"
Not sure why you would feel sorry for them though - sales are running at roughly twice those of Sony's PS4:
I've got an XBOX one, picked one up on release day with a copy of Battlefield 4 (which is god damn fast and fluid, looks utterly gorgeous). The inbuilt game DVR is pretty wicked as well. Pass thru HDMI is also a bonus, especially as you can put your XBOX 360 thru as well (also works with the PS3).
To be honest I'm a happy bunny, not sure why anyone feels the need to declare something a failure after a few weeks of being out there and constrained supply, pretty daft.
When I get a chance I'm going to get a PS4 as well (I have PS3, 360 and a One) so why not, the exclusive games are a must (looking at you The Last of Us).
Console wars are always fought with fanbois in both sides declaring the console they use is best and everything else must be rubbish. Although the lucky few will just buy both and be happy regardless.
However if you don't, either the One or the PS4 will I am sure do you proud for a long time, stop being sheep people use what you like because you like it.
I'm luck enough to have both and I couldn't agree more. They are roughly the same thing packaged slightly differently. XBox is more ambitious and a bit more aimed at doing other things than games. PS4 is more focused and is a bit more narrowly aimed at gamers. PS4 is cheaper, XBox has connect which is nice for the kids and missus though I'm not much bothered. XBox is in the living room with telly playing through it and space for the kids / missus to flail about. PS4 is in my games room where I hide from the kids/ missus.
They are both very nice bits of kit and a nice upgrade over their predecessors. If you only want one, pick either. Or a Steambox but I detect a whiff of vapourware there.
Which do I prefer? Way too early to say. Will depend on what exclusive games each gets etc. Ask me in a year or so.
I'm also a saddo with both, and so far the Xbox has seen more play with only Resogun on Sony's machine offering any thing close to fun. Forza and Dead Rising in contrast are surprisingly deep and use extra features such as SmartGlass and rumbling triggers intelligently. Dual Shock 4 is an improvement but still not as comfortable as Microsoft's controller, and having used a Vaio Pro's tpuchpad for the past few months I don't have much faith in that particular feature either.
On the horizon though I think Sony will have the finer roster of games
It's Microsoft's greedy, audacious anti-consumer attitude that is the problem. I'm sure you'll have fun with the device itself.
I have more integrity than that. I would go back to tic tac toe on a piece of paper before I would buy an Xbox One, or any other Microsoft product or service. (I've already got Windows 7 which will keep my current games running for the foreseeable future... there will be no more Windows purchases for me. I honestly thought they were turning over a new leaf, with the quality and friendliness of Windows 7 but they completely switched gears)
Microsoft. Dying one (self inflicted) paper cut at a time.
"It's Microsoft's greedy, audacious anti-consumer attitude"
Yes we all remember how Microsoft infected all our PCs with root kits from audio CDs, infected all our Bluray players with Cinavia and ran it's gaming network on a LAMP stack, such that it was easily hacked and tens of thousands of people's personal data was distributed across the internet....Oh, wait!
I mean; everyone still remembers the initial presentation where it became obvious that Microsoft was aiming for a daily lockdown on their consoles (you had to log on at least once during every 24hrs otherwise you wouldn't be able to play).
It doesn't matter that they eventually reversed their plans: the damage has been done.
You've obviously forgotten the Microsoft announcements since. People didn't want discs that become tied to the specific machine or an enforced daily check-in to seek permission to use the console because, ummm, they weren't smart enough to spot the benefits and they're all just living in the past and one day they'll realise that they were wrong and, anyway, it's not Microsoft's fault if the public is so backwards.
Furthermore, capitulation was a sign of strength and evidence that the XBox is the more versatile device. So there.
That all being said, one feels there's a game of dare going on. Microsoft and Sony are letting companies like EA (I'm talking about you, Sim City) take the flack for this sort of consumer-hating practice for now and will no doubt both integrate it back into the machine once every publisher is just having to do it individually anyway.
because, ummm, they weren't smart enough to spot the benefits and they're all just living in the past and one day they'll realise that they were wrong and, anyway, it's not Microsoft's fault if the public is so backwards.
You make a very cogent case. I can see why you think people are idiots. Giving up your privacy for all those XB1 features is totally worth it.
One thing a lot of people don't seem to realize about SteamBox is that it's based on Linux, and unless a game's developer releases a Linux port of their game on Steam, you won't be able to play it natively on the system. Native Linux support is still not all that common among big game releases. Valve offers Linux versions of many of their games, but even they haven't released ports of games like Portal 2 and CS:GO for Linux yet, though I suspect they'll have those by the release of SteamBox. But among games already released by publishers who don't have a vested interest in SteamOS, it's quite unlikely they'll invest the millions of dollars necessary to port their previously released games to Linux. So, most of your existing Steam library won't likely run on SteamOS. Apparently, there will be the option to run games on a windows system and have the video stream to your SteamBox over your home network, but this is obviously not an ideal solution.
...... when the stock checking sites stay green for longer than 30 seconds, which will be when supply balances with demand. Which is likely to be a while as Xbox still has to be released in a number of countries and the PS4 is not out in its major market, Japan, until February.
What the sales figures show is that MS had 1 million units ready for launch, Sony had just over 2 million for the staggered release. People with more stuff to sell manages to sell more stuff shocker.
It's also possible that Microsoft and/or Sony have hundreds of thousands of consoles stockpiled in warehouses in an effort to artificially boost perceived demand. If your console is sold out at stores this holiday season, that will create the impression that it is in demand and flying off the shelves, even if the actual reception is a bit more lukewarm.
The South Park "Song of Ass and Fire" episode : PS4 vs X-One on Black Friday. Very amusing.
As to my actual comment on this subject... am I now to assume that not only do MS want to track everyone via Kinect and all of the "features" that were de-scoped, but that will creep back in over the course of the console lifespan (although they won't admit that) - but now they are tracking every single in-game event or stat implying that all X-Ones are phoning home on an ongoing basis?
Or are their figures simply crap? Or are they based on Xbox live dashboard figures?
I presume the latter but just thought I'd ask?
Yep the 'creep' will creep back in as MS can't stop themselves. Some say they stopped adding new features for users even before Vista ,and instead began to focus on things like DRM. That shows where their loyalties clearly lie. Any company who thinks 'Trusted Computing' is a user feature needs to be deprecated!
BTW: I watched the SP clip Part II (11 mins), but thought it was a bit laboured (sorry)... The real tragedy about Black Friday are all the stories of innocent people who became collateral damage.... Glad I don't live there anymore...
The "creep" is already here...the sports games will penalize you in the game if you swear in real life...here is a link to that:
And MS is BANNING users for swearing during (supposedly) private Skype calls:
I will NOT trust MS enough to EVER have their Kinect in my home, and I am doing my level best to eliminate ALL of their products from my life. They simply took a wrong turn under Ballmer's leadership, and I no longer recognize the company I once was so loyal to. They are done, stick a fork in 'em!
@AC: 15:36 GMT --- "And MS is BANNING users for swearing during (supposedly) private Skype calls:" Lies: http://www.infowars.com/microsoft-denies-monitoring-skype-calls-after-banning-users-for-bad-language/
From Article Link:
"However, a respondent to the Gizmodo article points out that one of the bans was applied for someone solely using Skype, remarking, “So yes they are listening, or someone complained about the persons behavior.”
The "technical foul" penalties are not something added by Microsoft, but by the game's developer, for added realism and to make for a "more civilized online environment" according to the game's publisher. They are present in the PS4 version of the game as well, if you have the Playstation Camera, and were in last year's version of the game too, if you happened to have a Kinect for the 360. You also have the option of disabling them, by turning off voice commands in the game's options. I think it's a pretty amusing feature, actually. Putting it in more games could do a lot toward trolling all the twelve year olds who think they look big by swearing at others in online games. : P
Also, it sounds like that "skype ban" thing was just a myth. What people can get banned for is uploading gameplay videos that get reported for excessive swearing, which is against their terms and conditions you agree to. That's not to say such calls aren't being recorded, but the same could be true for call through any service.
I do agree about not liking the idea of having a camera and microphone always watching though. However, that's not just limited to Microsoft. Do you really trust the front-facing cameras and microphones found in smartphones and tablets?
"Plus it doesn't have a great big power transformer outside the box."
That's a big advantage of the XBO - the PSU is most common electronic item to fail and generates a lot of heat. The XBO runs about 15 Deg C cooler than the PS4 because of this design even though it has a faster CPU / GPU clock speed - and will likely be much more reliable over the long term...and you can easily swap or buy just the PSU if it fails...a PS4 will need to go back to Sony...
It's been like this for years, on all platforms. How do you think achievements are tracked? If a game has an achievement for killing X number of enemies or using an item a certain number of times, those stats are constantly getting uploaded while you are playing the game. It doesn't matter if its Sony, Microsoft or Valve, if you're playing games on a system that's online, they're recording the exact time periods when you are playing each game, along with all sorts of stats about how you play those games. If your user profile is publicly viewable, much of this data is available to anyone wanting to monitor and catalog it for themselves.
If Xbox-180 hadn't failed, it would have sent the entirely wrong message to MS execs. As a longstanding Xbox user, and MS tools programmer, I'm very happy with this outcome. Hopefully MS will deliberate, and then reorient itself back to making a powerful games box, and stop watering down one its core product.
As a gamer and game designer, I want the best hardware. Why? Because I want to know I'm getting the best gaming experience. The PS4 is 40% better in that regard, and its already showing in HD reviews. But frankly neither box is worth the hype. They've both played perfectly into the hands of PC gaming and Valve's box, and many people are going to sit on the sidelines, but hey this is good for us consumers.
MS overstepped a boundary when it supposed that its execs and focus groups knew best, and what we all wanted was a glorified overpriced entertainment system. What a stupid idea. Especially, considering many aspects only work in the United States. But its equally stupid because hard core gamers don't use Kinect. Yes they might later on down the road, if Kinect can be shown, really shown, to add to the gameplay experience. But for most, the controller is the still the lifeblood of any gaming interface....
Moreover, Voice Control... WTF? Would you please go and 'F' off Microsoft! Its a stupid idea for a games box, its unresponsive, and overall its an annoying gimmick. Dear Microsoft, do you realize that we gamers want to spend the least amount of time in your crappy UI's & GUI's. Instead we want to get into games quickly, and continue on from where we left off even more quickly... So stop bloody getting in the way!
In addition, there are also huge privacy issues with this latest Xbox, 3 horrendous additions... 1. mandatory Kinect... 2. voice control, and 3. constant connection. You don't need to be classed as a tinfoil hat wearer to see that following on from Snowden and LG's sneaky TV spying, everyone's privacy is up for sale!
Failed? Already? Think you may be a tad early there mate. They have undeniably sold a lot of these things. And they will sell a lot more. PS4 has sold more yes. Does that mean XBox has failed? Seems a bit wishful thinking on your part.
XBox is a bit less powerful. But they have gone for some gimmicky architecture to make up for this. If it all works out, it could actually make it more powerful. I'm not convinced, but lets see what happens. Don't think it will make much difference really though. Mid Range Gaming PCs are completely out of either of these league. And I can barely imagine how vast the gap will be in a couple of years time. Assuming PC sales don't continue to implode like they are doing now, But then, you can't get a mid range gaming PC for £400. That wont even get you a top graphics card. Does that mean you can't have fun on a console? Absolutely not. Well, I can anyway.
Kinect? Well it's brave and very casual. Doesn't make them evil baby eaters because they have it. My kids love it. It's pretty core to Dance Central, the fitness malarky and stuff. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it evil. My kids love it. Perhaps you wouldn't allow them to play on the PS4 because they are not hardcore enough for you in "I'm a better gamer thas you land"? Yes, the controller is still the life blood of MOST gaming experiences. And the XBox controller arguably (and they will argue) still just manages to pip the dualshock there. Voice Control? It's alright. PS4 can also be set up to use it, but not as well. Don't see you cursing Sony for that. So what.
Playing games? Well they both do it pretty much equally well. If you want to whip out the magnifying glass and count pixels, the PS4 definitely seems to have the edge there.
Microsoft more evil than Sony? Bollocks. They are both megacorporations focused on profit. How soon we forget Sony putting rootkits on customers PCs. Microsoft more arrogant? Well they aren't one of the Big Three of RIAA and trying to sue or intimidate their customers at every turn. But look through whatever reality filters you want.
Privacy? Lol, you have far more pressing threats to that. Look to your e-mails, mobiles etc before creating some fantasy of your consoles recording you playing games and sending it to the spooks.
They are both excellent products which do pretty much the same thing. Anyone claiming one is vastly superior, more moral or better for the environment than the other is fooling themselves.
Oh bugger. Wall of text. Nobody is going to read this :)
Yeah, wall of text! :) But I did read it! I disagree however. Microsoft has shown to be "more evil" than Sony this time around. They were the FIRST company to sign on to the NSA's PRISM program, and despite their assurances of privacy with the Kinect, they are showing that they really don't mean it (stories abound of Kinect listening to gamers swearing and either banning them, or penalizing them in-game for it!). They filed patents on how they would target ads to users based on who was in the room or what logos it could see. They only listen to complaints or criticism when it becomes painfully obvious that sales will suffer, then backtrack...instead of doing what they SHOULD, listening to feedback BEFORE announcing ridiculously restrictive DRM, BEFORE announcing that the Kinect is required, and BEFORE announcing that the console has to always be connected to the internet. Yes, they did indeed reverse course on these policies, but the very fact that they were announced, then DEFENDED (#DEALWITHIT), means that they don't really "get" their own customers!
Additionally, they don't really "get" convergence of consoles and TV entertainment. They put all of the video apps behind the XBL paywall, they use a crappy HDMI pass-through to overlay content on your cable feed (degrading picture and sound quality in the process!). They also don't seem to know that most TVs have DISCRETE on and off IR codes (even if those codes are not on the remote!), nor do they understand that they need to be able to have the system "learn" IR commands for the odd customer who might have equipment not in their database. Not to mention ZERO support for DVRs...and lets face it, most cable customers have DVRS at this point! These are ROOKIE mistakes guys!
What they SHOULD have done, if they weren't rushing this to market, is to use their experience with Window Media Center and built in CableCard capability (in the US at least), or put in the appropriate FreeView or Sky tuners INTERNAL to the box, eliminating the need for the cable box altogether. They should have made it act as a basic cable box out of the box, or a true DVR with the addition of an external "DVR" hard drive that would be specifically assigned JUST to record video (no games or other content on the drive, keep that on the internal drive). But, as I mentioned, despite having EIGHT YEARS to prepare for this generation, they rushed the design out at the last minute. To say the Xbox One is "beta" would be generous at this point!
No, they rushed out an incomplete, partially BROKEN product that doesnt measure up. They are not getting my business, maybe never again.
"They were the FIRST company to sign on to the NSA's PRISM program"
Presumably because they were the largest / most important in terms of end user data and therefore the first to be told. Don't forget that this was presented as a legal requirement by the NSA - not a voluntary scheme....
"they use a crappy HDMI pass-through to overlay content on your cable feed (degrading picture and sound quality in the process!). "
The HDMI pass through is pure digital with no processing (unless you chose to use picture in picture - in which case a very high quality hardware scaler is used). It doesn't degrade anything when using digital pass-through - e.g. watching a TV program...frames are kept exactly the same.
"or put in the appropriate FreeView or Sky tuners INTERNAL to the box"
They did - the Xbox One is fully capable of decoding (and encoding) multiple ITPV streams simultaneously in dedicated hardware on the APU....It could indeed replace your STB in the future....
OP AC, if you are really a game designer as you claim you should study both consoles more carefully and not take your development input from fanboyism like that 40% headline.
Failed to do what?
Yes the PS4 GPU is more powerful than the XBO equivalent and GDDR4 a better design call by Sony than the ESRAM+DDR4 chosen by Microsoft (in my opinion) and this shows on certain benchmarks and lets us turn out slightly better graphics on PS4 (though realistically neither here nor there in most living room situations). Bottom line for the game developer this hardly translates into a 40% better system. Both are a step forward from their predecessors and let us advance what we can do with our games. Sure I'd like higher performance consoles personally but at least both vendors have chosen a platform design that gives the option of a faster 'pro' version (perhaps in 2-3 years when they do a 14nm process shrink) while maintaining compatibility with released games.
Both consoles offer voice control so your comments about Microsoft just establish you as a partisan, and sorry to have to say this but you do come over as a tinfoil hat.
......."if you are really a game designer ... you should study both consoles"
With respect to your condescending advice, it is an incredibly bureaucratic process to get a game to console. The process is often frustrating and painfully slow. It is often better to develop for Apple or PC, and if the game has merits if will be picked up by big shops and ported over, as there are specialist shops to do the conversion later on. Added to which, the new generation of consoles are closer to a PC set-up spec anyway, compared with previous generations.
But please Curb your Enthusiasm and learn a little about the video game industry. Its much bigger than just console, although the latter gets all the hype. Not many people outside this business realize just how closed the console makers are to Indie developers. Please understand, MS and Sony recoup their hardware investment through substantial commissions on every game sold. Therefore it is in their interest to primarily support sequels and overhyped titles that have big marketing budgets.
......."better graphics on PS4 though neither here nor there in most living room"
Wrong. Its widely been reported that COD Ghosts runs at full HD on the PS4 versus only HD on the Xbox. That is a real difference in 'most living rooms'. Look, this matters, as the old 360 could do HD 60 fps!
......."Both consoles offer voice control"
You neglected to point out that Voice Control is not the default enforced behaviour on the PS4... Have you tried disabling Voice Control on Xbox1?
......."sorry to have to say this but you do come over as a tinfoil hat"
Easy Tiger! If you want to be persuade others on the strength of your arguments, then ease off on personal attacks! I've never owned a Sony console. So your jibes don't wash friend! I'm basically sitting on the sidelines...
"The PS4 is 40% better in that regard, and its already showing in HD reviews"
But the reviews say that of the games on both consoles such as Ghosts and BF4, the Xbox One versions look better (sharper) and run smoother....And owning both consoles I can confirm that this is indeed the case.
Spin!! Hey we are microsoft we have more zombie kills than Apple/Sony or Google combined! What next? Hey on Bing you can kill way more zombies than using google! But wait Microsoft, the way you should say it is..
"We have more zombies using our desktop OS than any other"
The PlayStation 4 and XBox One are tremendous advances on the previous generation, bringing much improved graphics and a more unified architecture. They are obviously both popular, and game studios are now able to explore things like better textures, wider field of view, higher frame rates, etc.
This all bodes well for an increase in the quality of games ported to PCs, which will make me happy.
Last generation I waited a while then bought a PS3 which I ran for about a year and sold on simply due to the lack of decent games for it (The last game I bought was the first Uncharted and that was the start of the second generation of games for the console which has seen a steady increase in quality ever since). I'd had enough at that point and moved to the Xbox Elite which came with all the things the Xbox should have come with when released (Hard disk, HDMI etc) which I have used ever since and been very happy with.
My wife has no interest in gaming, so my Xbox lives in the office alongside the PC. There will never be a console in our lounge.
At a stroke the XBox One has lost a sale. I've been gaming all my life, I started with an Atari FFS, I tend to run one console at a time and I have always had a personal computer in addition (Amstrad, Amiga, Windows PC). All the 'centre of the home' stuff is of no interest. If I could use it as a PVR, possibly, and I presume it'll still media centre extend as before, but it would be better for me if it could just access my NAS boxes (where my recorded TV and DVD collection is stored) directly rather than requiring me to have a Windows PC switched on and doing nothing.
My biggest problem is with having a mandatory Kinect connection. I don't want a camera that can be activated remotely in my house. I don't want an always-on console so my mother can call me on Skype any time she fancies. I want to be able to swear and curse in my own house without the fear of being 'blacklisted' by Microsoft and lose access (which I pay for) to some games. I'm not going to use the Kinect, my office isn't big enough to dance around in and, any way, I'm not a twelve year old girl. I don't play online that much and, if I did, I'd be using my headset as the racket from the speakers would be annoying to anyone else in the house.
If I could use my headset, that is. I'm annoyed that none of my existing peripherals will work with the Xbox One, and there is no option of an adaptor being available. Apparently wired peripherals will work, but MS have had a policy of shifting all their 360 peripherals to wireless for years now - stupid case in point being the Wireless Wheel which had a power supply and a connection the pedal box but was wireless to the Xbox... Basically Microsoft are saying they will support only the oldest peripherals for our last generation box, which is weird. I do get the 'new console, new controllers' paradigm - it is as old as the hills - but typically you can use the previous gen controllers at the start of a new hardware lifecycle until the new controllers with their whizzy new features eventually make an upgrade essential. The Xbox controller could be used on the 360 via USB. Hell my 360 Elite still has the memory card slots fitted (remember them?). The PS1 controller could be used on the PS2. The Dual Shock 2 could be used on the PS3 (with a cable), but this time MS have chosen to prevent this from happening. I'd probably pay £30 quid-odd for an adaptor to use with my wheel to play Forza 5 with for example...
Microsoft seem to have spent their time making the case for upgrading to an XB1 as difficult as possible for existing users. For me, I'm not convinced ... yet. Typically these machines go through one or two evolutions over their lifetime and, historically, the Xbox evolutions have been to add stuff that should have been there from the start (Hard disc, DVD playback software, HDMI output etc). Playstation tend to have the specs pretty well sorted from the off and just make adjustments to reduce the production and sale prices.
However the PS4 launch titles are mostly ... absent at the moment. DriveClub, the next NaughtyDog release, and GT, for example, are all months away and there is nothing outside of the multiplatform releases (Assassin's Creed 4, NFS etc) at the moment.
If someone said I had to buy a new console today, I'd have the PS4. TBH I'm going to sit and wait before buying. I suspect in ten months time both offerings will be mature and easier to weigh up.
Oh dear, tl:dr :(
heres my view... Xboxone and PS4 are both good consoles... both have small advantages and disadvantages, sales will even out over time and both will sell in far greater numbers than you or I could be bothered to count to... both will have similar lifespans and their own hard/software issues...
all the fanboi-ism is no different to saying BMW will collapse because the new X series Coupe isn't as nice as the Mercedes X Class Coupe...
lets just enjoy the same games on different platforms and lust after exclusive titles that are only available on the competitors console!
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