back to article Microsoft Surface slabs borked by heat-induced DIM SCREEN OF DEATH

The latest generation of Microsoft Surface tablets are overheating, causing the screens to dim to the point they are unusable - but it's OK, people, Microsoft is onto it and a fix is coming. Frustrated customers have taken to the Microsoft community forums to complain that the device runs hot when playing games, or while …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I don't buy any new tech until the second version comes out.

    With MS I wait for the fourth.

    1. James 51

      With MS I wait for the fourth.

      That's a little unkind. Generally they get it right on the third go.

      1. Paul Shirley

        Re: With MS I wait for the fourth.

        Don't you mean 3.1th go?

        1. N2

          Re: With MS I wait for the fourth.

          Wasnt it the 2000th go?

          1. Steve Todd

            Look, it's very simple

            Version 1 is at best beta quality, incomplete and full of bugs

            Version 2 fixes most of the bugs

            Version 3 adds the missing features and is what the customers actually wanted.

            Version 4 adds new, flashy stuff and breaks it.

            Version 5 fixes the problems with version 4 and is again what was wanted.

            Version 6 has a whole new UI (for poorly explained reasons), and is once again broken.

            Version 7 fixes version 6

            etc.

            So you should get in at version 3 and then upgrade every other version.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: With MS I wait for the fourth.

            Wasnt it the 2000th go?

            I hear Microsoft is keen for us server admins to embrace their 2012th attempt…

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: With MS I wait for the fourth.

        Generally speaking, every other release is bad when it comes to the software. So, the question that begs to be answered is this. Was the Surface (1) the good model or is it the Surface 2?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This is why you don't make your own hardware if you're a software company.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      > This is why you don't make your own hardware if you're a software company.

      To be fair it's apparently a software fault.

      Just don't expect decent products from a company that proves over and over again that they are largely incapable of producing such.

      1. John Tserkezis

        "To be fair it's apparently a software fault."

        From their specs:

        "Operating temperature. Surface is designed to work between 32°F and 95°F (or 0°C to 35°C)."

        That means, it's certified to work within that temperature range with no strings attached. If it's overheating when running flat stick - it's a hardware issue. Intentionally slowing it down to keep it within the temp spec is a piss weak technique - even if it is common practice. (Oh boy, the things I could tell you about some of the gear I've seen that fixed faults in firmware....)

        1. Steve Todd

          Most modern portable devices

          use software throttling to keep themselves within power and thermal envelopes. Even desktop class machines adjust their clock speed based on load (Turbo Boost anyone?).

          What the adjusted software WILL do is invalidate any benchmark results.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re - To be fair

        Aren't Microsoft a software company?

        Either way, to be fair, Microsoft shouldn't have let this through beta-test

        To be fair, isn't this version 2?

        Has any other company in this market entertained their competition by fumbling like this?

        Isn't their machine priced high for some reason to do with quality

      3. Nick Stallman

        I'd love to know how overheating is a software fault.

        1. Kristian Walsh

          Thermal management is a software function

          It's not overheating, but rather the software is taking overly aggressive measures aimed at reducing the heat inside the enclosure. It seems that these measures are being taken when the internal temperature isn't persistently high enough to warrant them, hence the promise of a software fix.

          The screen backlight is a major source of heat, often more so than the CPU, and keeping the temperature down is paramount when your enclosure has little or no ventilation, and you've got a heat-sensitive Lithium-ion battery in close proximity. (Excessive heat will permanently reduce Li-ion battery capacity, which will shorten the working life of the device)

      4. Grey Bird
        Happy

        Microsoft _Has_ Made Good Hardware

        I have a gamepad that is articulated in the middle that is great fun to use, and a Trackball Explorer that is really great also. Of course, they're both discontinued with the most recent OS version the game pad can be used with being XP. So maybe they got rid of all their good hardware people and removed their products so they could start fresh! (...and screw it up without interference!!)

  3. GordonJ

    Microsofties at their *best*

    They really said "unnecessary dimming event"? Didn't use the words "fault" or "issue", just "event".

    If it's a spade, call it a f()c&!ng shovel.

    1. cyborg
      Trollface

      Re: Microsofties at their *best*

      "If it's a spade, call it a f()c&!ng shovel."

      Don't you mean "landscape manipulation tool"?

    2. tirk

      Re: Microsofties at their *best*

      IBM in the 60s used to call them "unexpected features" IIRC.

  4. peredur

    Thermal temperatures

    There are other ones?

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: Thermal temperatures

      Yes, how about Colour Temperatures?

      Though I think I'd be worried if your Surface 2 was glowing at 2700K...

  5. Pat 4

    analysts...

    "Research analyst Pin Chen Tang said Microsoft needs to prove to channel partners and people buying the Surface that it is "in this market for the long haul"."

    He is so wrong.

    Microsoft needs to prove that the Surface doesn't SUCK as much as every techie friend you have is telling you it does!

    I am one of those techie friends, and EVERYONE I know has been told by me that those devices simply suck, and cost WAY too much for what they can actually do.

    So far... Microsoft has yet to prove me wrong.

    1. Rallicat

      Re: analysts...

      "EVERYONE I know has been told by me that those devices simply suck"

      What about it sucks? Go on, be specific. Saying they suck is a blanket statement that implies that these device are unfit for purpose, that the software and hardware don't work.

      My experience is different, I can browse the web, access my email, calendar, Skype, Netflix, games, Kindle etc etc. It doesn't crash or fail on me, everything tends to work pretty well, and so far no sign of a screen issue - very far from the concept of it 'sucking'. So before demanding Microsoft prove you wrong, how about you lay out your case a little more intelligently and prove to us all why you are /right/?

      1. The Godfather
        Meh

        Re: analysts...

        Most people can do all that and more on something half the price...

      2. noominy.noom

        Re: analysts...

        Have to agree with Railcat here. I wanted a tablet, but I also needed to run a couple of Windows only programs. The Surface Pro 2 has done what I needed it to do. I don't like everything about Windows 8 and the TIFKAM is mostly useless for me. But I use the tablet every day and have had no major issues.

      3. RealFred

        Re: analysts...

        They can say it sucks without ever having seen or used one because they are IT Gods. and so everything they say must be true

    2. Hooksie

      Re: analysts...

      See, that's exactly the problem. The Surface doesn't suck at all, not one bit and the only people who say it does are supposed tech writers who should know better. Other than Candy Crush and some other apps name me one thing the iPad can do that the Surface can't. I'll name you several that the Surface can that the iPad can't.

      Full size USB 3.0

      16:9 1080p screen so movies take up 50% more screen than on iPad

      DVI out

      Running 3 apps at the same time seamlessly

      Proper remote desktop to server resources using ts gateway

      Charge and use a peripheral at the same time

      Live tiles

      The article is right that stock was extremely low but it's getting better and my Surface 2 (not Pro) is the best tablet I've ever used.

  6. Longrod_von_Hugendong
    Holmes

    Err well...

    'And like everyone else I have no control over this once it starts,'

    Well yes, you do - throw it away and buy what you should have bought in the first place - an iPad.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Err well...

      You must know a lot about this tech to make such a comment LvH so advice please. Which model of iPad SoC do you favour - lower performance Bay Trail or better to shell out for a high performance Haswell processor like the Surface Pro 2?

      1. Steve Todd
        Stop

        Re: Err well...

        The Surface 2 is ARM powered, just like the iPad Air, but with a less powerful SoC. The Surface 2 Pro uses a Haswell, just like the MacBook Air, but with a poorer battery life, an optional extra keyboard and only two working screen angles you can set it to. The Pro is more expensive than an equivalently spec'd MacBook.

  7. Frankee Llonnygog

    Luckily the screen is non stick

    You can cool it down more quickly be cracking an egg onto it. When fully set, flip the egg between two slices of bread for a tasty sandwich. The warranty allows for this.

    Fact.

  8. IGnatius T Foobar
    FAIL

    Microsoft FAIL

    Typical. A product no one wants, running an operating system no one likes, in a market where no one thinks Microsoft is welcome.

    Listen up, Microsoft: no one wants you here. Your product sucks, and no one is buying it because your monopoly has not taken hold in the tablet space. Do yourselves a favor: cancel the entire product line, shut down Vista RT and Vista Phone, and use your developers' time to de-ribbonize everything.

    Mobile is all about Android and Apple. Nobody wants Microsoft there. Nobody likes Microsoft there. Microsoft is not welcome there.

    1. xyz Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft FAIL

      whilst I agree with most of...

      Do yourselves a favor: cancel the entire product line, shut down Vista RT and Vista Phone, and use your developers' time to de-ribbonize everything.

      However, not all of us want to buy our kit and s/ware from the Gattaca Walled Garden of Purity or the GoogleMart Advertorium. Hopefully at MS any future cock ups will be referred to as "doing a Ballmer" and we can get some proper business functionality out of them.

    2. silent_count

      Re: Microsoft FAIL

      @Mr Foobar

      While I don't hate MS, if I did, I'd want them to keep pissing away piles of cash to achieve a rounding error 's share of the market.

  9. Rallicat

    I have a Surface 2. So far, whilst it indeed does get quite warm when running intensive activities like games (yes, there are Games in the Windows Store, no, not just Solitaire), I've yet to see any screen dimming.

    I like my Surface 2, it does all the things I want it to do, including a few things I couldn't do with an Android tablet or an iPad. Doesn't mean I'm not totally respectful toward people who like their iPads or Samsung tabs or whatever - feel free to use what you want.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      > Doesn't mean I'm not totally respectful toward people who like their iPads or Samsung tabs or whatever - feel free to use what you want.

      No, Switzerland!! You either take sides or piss off to arstechnica and stuff while crucial platform wars are being decisively fought right here on The Reg Forums.

    2. Mikel

      It has come to this

      Redmond astroturfers have gone from sneering derisively at other tablet products, calling them toys, their buyers iTards and Fandroids, to pleading for permission for their product to exist at all out of respect for diversity of choice. Of course if they ever achieve a decent share it will be right back to the takeout strategy. No sale. We are on to you. You oppose progress. That we have all these cool new things without your permission is offensive to you. You will not be allowed to play in this new world because you cheat, you are a bully, you are no fun.

      1. RealFred

        Re: It has come to this

        The sneering derision come from ifans and fandroids. These people are fucktards who think that no-one else is allowed on their patch. They themselves can't play nicely as they sue each other into oblivion about rounded corners swipe to unlock. If they are the future of computing, god help us all.

        Grow up little boy, competition is good for everybody, even from companies that have tried to manipulate markets to their own benefit (I'm looking at you Apple) and squeeze the opposition out.

        1. Charles Manning

          Competition

          "competition is good for everybody"

          True. Microsoft has been in the tablet market since the 1990s and the phone market since 2001.

          Thank goodness for competition or we'd still be stuck with their shite.

          I think what RealFred was trying to do was play the "Give Microsoft a chance" card. Well they've had all the chance they need (almost 20 years in tablet space and about 5 or 6 generations during that time). They had the market stitched up but blew it.

          1. RealFred

            Re: Competition

            No, what I was trying to say was don't accuse Microsoft of trying to manipulate markets when Apple has been caught doing the same thing and Google has been caught manipulating search results for their own benefit.

            I've used ipads, Microsoft tablets and Android tablets. They all have their area of suckiness

            I really don't give a fuck what you use.

      2. Captain DaFt

        Re: It has come to this

        "You will not be allowed to play in this new world because you cheat, you are a bully, you are no fun.

        Darn, you left out, "and your mother dresses you funny!"

    3. A Butler

      Well said a balanced friendly comment

      Well said Rallicat a nice comment, well balanced and offensive to nobody. Maybe its the season of goodwill on the Reg after all!

  10. Sil

    Not experienced this problem so far

    I don't play games on my Surface 2 but I haven't experienced dimmed screens with full time browsing, video watching, 2 'appsing' or using office.

    In fact I find the screen positively gorgeous.

    I wonder if some of these users aren't experiencing auto-dimming, which one can of course deactivate.

  11. Simon Harris
    Pint

    ZX81

    What? Doesn't the old ZX81 milk carton trick work on the Surface?

    This might also work (but not for long) -------------------------->

  12. Arctic fox
    Headmaster

    One question.

    Does El Reg have any idea about what percentage of customers are experiecing these problems. It would seem to me that such information would be of interest.....hm...?

    1. Adam 1

      Re: One question.

      Both of them in fact!

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This is why people should have bought the RT version

    Frustrated customers have taken to the Microsoft community forums to complain that the device runs hot when playing games, or while running two applications at once.

    With the RT version you don't get this problem because with the RT version you can only run one application at once...

    1. Only me!

      Re: This is why people should have bought the RT version

      One app at once..….Just like iOS and people seem to like that restriction, which is why MS thought it was a good idea!

      Windows mobile was great due to multiple things running.

      Google and android think multiple running apps are the way to go. But does all the hardware standup to it?

      Down votes from all sides result ;-)

      1. Jess

        One app at once..….Just like iOS

        Isn't that like iOS version 1 - 3 or something?

        Years out of date?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This is why people should have bought the RT version

      Maybe in line with their Xbox branding, they should have called it "Windows One" and the device, the "Surface One".

      Because you can only do One thing at a time on it. For the rest of us, it's the One to avoid.

    3. Kristian Walsh

      Re: This is why people should have bought the RT version

      I don't know where you got the idea that Windows RT doesn't multitask. It does. Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ODZ928qke8

      In fairness, I also thought RT was mono-tasking initially... It's a sign of MS's bungled marketing on these devices that such a genuinely useful feature got next to no exposure from Microsoft.

  14. Sporkinum

    IE and background ads

    "The most recent post was from an individual who asked Microsoft "how hot is 'hot',” adding that his screen darkened while just surfing the web – in his words, "hardly graphically demanding.”"

    Not graphically demanding, CPU demanding from a wide open IE browser allowing all that background advertising and tracking javascript cruft to run in the background.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: IE and background ads

      Yeah, I'd tend to agree - there have on occasion been adverts on The Reg which have made my workstation go to 100%, so it's entirely possible that there is a rogue web page/advert causing this problem.

  15. codeusirae
    Facepalm

    Convection fail ..

    The problem is in trying to squeeze to many components into a tiny space, with no allowance given for how the heat is to escape.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Convection fail ..

      And the glue just seals their fate…

  16. John773

    I have a Surface 2 and haven't experienced the dimming yet. Out of all the sites that I have read, this one has got to be populated by the most brainwashed sets of fans. Let people use what they want to use. They are just gadgets. I also have an iPad, Android tablet and phone, and Macs (previously) and PCs. Being a member of a cult (even a gadget cult) is not a good thing.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      > They are just gadgets.

      Please familarise yourself with the rules around here by checking the "No, Switzerland!!" comment somewhere earlier on this thread.

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