PlayStation daddy on new PS4: She's ALL 'PLAY', NO 'Station' this time

The goals of Sony's PlayStation 4, on sale Friday, were rewritten from the ground up – after the company "spread itself too thin" when developing the PlayStation 3. So said Dominic Mallinson, Sony's veep of R&D for Playstation, speaking at the AMD developers conference, APU13, in San José, California, on Wednesday. Mallinson …

[Joerg]

The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

The PS4 is a scam and a fraud.

The PS4 surely can't be a supercomputer. The already obsolete outdated AMD APU Jaguar at 1.6GHz it's 30% slower than the slowest Intel Core i3 CPU.

The PS4 (as well as the XBoxOne which is just the same fraud,same hardware crap,same scam) already can't even sustain 720p 30fps real-time rendered games. 1080p can be barely achieved by dropping texture quality, 3D models complexity, disabling light and physics effects or lowering quality a lot on each single algorithm.

If millions of people will be sheep and enjoy being ripped off by buying this fake next-gen consoles scam fraud then there will be no new true next-gen consoles for the next 8-10 years. By that time UHDV 8K 32MegaPixel movies, tv shows and PC gaming will have become a reality already.. but the consoles won't have been able to even deliver 4K gaming and movies playback.

Only by rejecting this fraud and not buying the outdated scam fake next-gen consoles there is a chance that then the managers thieves behind all of this will be forced to be in a hurry spending money on R&D before going bankrupt to deliver true next-gen future proof 4K and 8K capable consoles in 2-3 years from now.

Otherwise buy this scam now and forget about any true next-gen consoles being released for a long time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

People don't buy consoles for cutting edge technology, they buy it for the couch and kids. For 400usd it does very well for what it does. That being said, the lock-in on these things are remarkably bad. People usually argue lock-in exists across all computers, but on a gaming consoles, the whole thing is caged.

Oh...

"By that time UHDV 8K 32MegaPixel movies, tv shows and PC gaming will have become a reality already.."

The line count and bitrate (any fair bitrate at least) only matter if you plan on getting a very, very large screen. 8K for tv's <= 100 inches should be almost indistinguishable from 4K. So unless you plan on having something like a 50 foot TV in your house (or as your house), then what does it matter?

[TechRenegade]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

Intel fans will hate what I have to say, but everyone reading this can look up the facts for themselves....

"The already obsolete outdated AMD APU Jaguar at 1.6GHz it's 30% slower than the slowest Intel Core i3 CPU" -- You are comparing apples to oranges. You said it yourself: "AMD APU" vs. "Intel Core i3 CPU". An Advanced Processing Unit (APU) has to process graphics in parallel, while performing primary CPU tasks. An Intel Central Processor (CPU) cannot process video whatsoever. Did you ever stop to think why AMD is the exclusive supplier for the PS4 and XBox One for their APU's?? -- A console powered by Intel chips would just be a low-end PC with no gaming ability.

To call an AMD chip "obsolete" is the same as saying that Intel is obsolete as well. Nearly every fundamental processor micro-architecture technology Intel chips have employed since 2003 is derived from and more accurately, reverse engineering from AMD's industry leading micro-architecture innovations:

Point A: Intel did not invent x86-based 64 bit processors. AMD introduced the world to desktop and laptop 64-bit chips while Intel was still maintaining that consumers would never need it, or more than 4GB of system memory, which 32-bit chips are limited to. All Intel chips run on AMD64 architecture but fail to process two of the many instructions (which gave Intel an excuse to call it "EM64T" because Intel can't admit that AMD is better than them at anything).

Point B: Intel did not invent integrated memory controllers, or direct memory access, or NUMA (Non-Uniform Memory Architecture) for multi-socket server architecture -- they copied all of that from AMD as well, after several years of AMD's success with that advancement.

Point C: Intel did not invent high-speed interconnects between processor sockets. They ripped that off from AMD as well. They just don't call it Hypertransport interconnects. They copied AMD when they finally had to replace their Netburst architecture, long known to be a performance bottleneck in the Pentium days before the Core series.

Point D: Intel also did not invent the APU. They have now begun to steal that idea straight from AMD, just like all the rest of "their" technology.

To say that AMD products are obsolete is plain ignorant. Without AMD, there would *BE* no new technology in Intel chips. Intel are followers. The only reason Intel chips can be faster than AMD chips is because they are stealing AMD's superior technology and patents, and coupling it with their own deep pockets which affords Intel a superior size-reduced fabrication process. That doesn't change the fact that Intel are no longer by definition "innovators" and have not been for over a decade. AMD is obsolete? That like saying Electricity is obsolete just because Thomas Edison stole that invention from Nicola Tesla and ran away with all the profits.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

@TechRenegade -

That's a pretty good read. I'm a big fan of both Intel and AMD chips for their different uses. I built my high-powered workstation that can grind through OCR'ing millions of pages of PDFs with an amazing 6-core beast of an AMD processor. My favorite laptop of all-time uses a Haswell i5 and gets over 11 hours of battery time and appears to require almost no cooling. Both companies have been putting out fantastic products, especially recently, and we are all the beneficiaries of their competition.

I would take issue with you on one point. Many of the technical points you addressed were also being worked on by Intel for years before they came to market in AMD products. The fact is that both companies saw the need for 64-bit processing, effective multi-core microarchitecture and numerous other advances. We could talk about Intel developing 64-bit processing 10 years before AMD64 came to market, and IBM working on it 38 YEARS before AMD64, but really, a company's decision to market a specific product is often a bit divorced from their engineering innovations. To your argument about AMD64, you would then have to discuss what processes and innovation AMD saw in IA64 that it could use. And what did both companies learn about 64-bit processing from the CDC vector supercomputers and the Cray vector supercomputers of the 1970's? And since engineers are constantly jumping from company to company, how much brain transfer occurred from IBM in the 60's to CDC/Cray in the 70's, to Intel in the 80's, to AMD in the 90's? Probably a lot more than you would think.

Your statements such as "Without AMD, there would *BE* no new technology in Intel chips", "Intel are followers" seem extreme. I've got family and friends who have worked on chip development in engineering at both companies and at Motorola for decades, and I can tell you the amount of work and innovation from all three companies in pushing the technology forward has been absolutely extraordinary.

Otherwise, I agree - AMD chips are incredible. I look forward to watching my son destroy zombies and terrorists on his PS4. I'm sure the APU will give remarkable performance. Thumbs up to AMD - keep the innovations coming!

[TechRenegade]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

Thank you for bringing more depth to the discussion. Mostly I was talking about things in terms of marketing firsts. I just get tired of everyone saying AMD doesn't do anything right, because it seems to me that I have had more value in my own systems due to AMD to a large extent.

i was aware that Intel had developed non-x86-64 based systems (itanium), and you of course have good points about the knowledge transfer across corporations over time. Still might you you have some specific examples you might want to share with us? I'm genuinely interested in the truth, but in the last ten years, I have to be honest, all seen over the years is Intel copying AMD. Anything that happens behind the scenes is hard to discuss or debate because it is not generally public knowledge.

[Not That Andrew]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

Intel don't have to rip off anything. They have a perpetual licence to AMD's x86 derived processor technologies.

[Rogue Jedi]

Advanced Processing Unit (APU)

Sorry but it is Accelerated Processing Unit, not Advanced

[TechRenegade]

Re: Advanced Processing Unit (APU)

This is debatable, but not worth it...

"An accelerated processing unit (APU, also Advanced Processing Unit) is a computer's main processing unit that includes additional processing capability"

-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerated_processing_unit

[h3]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

I saw a tech demo by AMD of an optimised console next gen engine. That didn't work properly even on a really top end i7 but managed to run just perfect on an under clocked bulldozer. (At 2 Ghz).

Never underestimate the will of console dev's to put in the absolute minimum amount of effort possible into stuff when it comes to porting to the PC.

There is no way something optimised properly for 6 cores will run well on a dual core i3.

EA has already said they are going to support Mantle because it makes things easier for them. Intel / Nvidia will have to do something.

Microsoft as well are one of the few companies who actually understands how to made the AMD architecture work properly at all also. (Any difference could likely be more than accounted for by compiler enhancements).

Nvidia are the worst though when it comes to being deliberately not compatible with standards.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

@Joerg - "The already obsolete outdated AMD APU Jaguar at 1.6GHz it's 30% slower than the slowest Intel Core i3 CPU."

That's just a remarkably ignorant statement. You should learn a bit about how chips work before posting again on the subject.

[Sarah Balfour]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

They work best with salt and vinegar, I find...

Look, I'm stuck in bed feeling shite. You're not gonna get witty erudite and urbane comments from me tonight, chaps...

[Steve the Cynic]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

"more than 4GB of system memory, which 32-bit chips are limited to. "

Tsk. Look up PAE, Physical Address Extension. This allows a compatible 32-bit processor to access memory beyond the 4GB line. And it was introduced on the Pentium Pro. In 1995.

The fact that non-server editions of 32-bit Windows don't exploit the capability (they do run in PAE mode, but limit physmem to 4G for driver compatibility and licensing reasons) doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[wowfood]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

In CPU terms yes, the jaguar probably is somewhat out-dated. However the CPU isn't entirely needed with games anymore. Look at the games on your ps3, and then go find a few of the 'big' games on PC and check your task manager. Playing stuff like BF etc barely dents my CPU. The jaguar APU has more than enough grunt to handle new games.

The issue is purely with the graphical half. But again PS4 gpu is based on the 7870 but lacks the latency from connecting via a bus as it's a straight up transfer of data between CPU and GPU. Not to mention that my somewhat dated gtx260 can still play the vast majority of games at max settings, ergo the 7870 in theory should have no problems.

Your third paragraph is pure PC master race bullshit based purely on your own opinions. As stated before the CPU and GPU are both theoretically more than powerful enough to run games at 1080p for 60fps. The x-bone suffers slightly becuase their graphics architecture is based on the 7790 which is a bit of a drop really.

blah blah blah blah blah is all I got out of your remaining points.

I'm not so much a console gamer anymore, I play most games on PC these days, only getting a few 'console exclusives' as and when I want them. But any kind of fanboy be it xbone, sony, or PC just needs to shut up and listen to themselves once in a while and see if they also hear trumpets rather than a voice.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

Comparing apples to oranges on the CPU front. The CPU is part of a dedicated gaming system that also happens to run other capabilities.

It has always been this way.

The PS1 had a 33mhz chip, as did my 486 PC at the time. Yet the PS1 could run a heck of a lot more games than my 486 ever could.

Comparing a PS1 to an SX processor wasn't a fair comparison.

[monkeyfish]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

The PS1 ran at 33mhz? My God, that was one slow processor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI#Prefixes

[h3]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

The PC processor around the time as the PS1 was the original Pentium.

P54C 0.6 µm 75–120 MHz 16 KB 50–66 MHz Socket 5 October 1994

It compared reasonably well when cost was taken into account.

That is no longer the case. It is a PC and it is totally out of date already.

The ipad will overtake these new consoles within a pretty short time frame.

[Danny 5]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

While i feel you are pretty much spot on with your comments, i have to say that not everybody goes for the absolute, end all of graphics and computing power in a console. As said in the article, your console will sell mostly based on content. This race for best performance has not done the gaming industry any good in general if you ask me, as the focus has shifted from gameplay, to getting the most gorgeous graphics available. That's not what most gamers want. Eyecandy is nice, but if the gameplay sucks, people aren't going to buy your games.

The PS4 and the Xbox one are superior to their predecessors, shouldn't that be enough?

Still upvoted, as i do agree with most of it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

Whilst it's true that the Xbox One is struggling to achieve 720p 60FPS, all the PS4 release multiplatform titles handle 1080p 60FPS without trouble,.

The PS3 is indeed a fine system, mines been used pretty much every day since launch, be it gaming, TV streaming or Movie disk playback.

I already have my PS4 pre-order lined up, and from what I have seen of Killzone Shadowfall, it's got enoigh grunt to put high end PC's to shame when games don't have to also cater for inferior other platforms. For that reason, for me, PS4 is a surefire purchase given what I have seen so far. I hope Sony get the DLNA software back in soon, as that's my only grip with an other perfect system.

[TheVogon]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

"Whilst it's true that the Xbox One is struggling to achieve 720p 60FPS, all the PS4 release multiplatform titles handle 1080p 60FPS without trouble,."

Not true - BF4 is upscaled on the PS4 - and looks worse than on the Xbox One as the PS4 upscales in software, whereas the Xbox One does it in hardware....And Watch Dogs only runs at 30fps on the PS4...

Forza 5 is 60fps / 1080p on the Xbox One - so it's possible to do - the Xbox One has advanced compressed texture tiling technology and a 200GBps on chip cache that the PS4 doesn't - that will take developers a while to learn to use....

The PS4 is a games only crippled PC - no CD, no MP3, no DNLA, etc, etc. I can't see why anyone would buy one versus a PC.

The Xbox One at least does a lot more that you can't currently do on a PC with Kinect and the HDMI input capability...

[system11]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

FUD.

Both consoles contain a hardware scaler - Microsoft (or DICE) opted to employ edge sharpening on the lower resolution Xbox One version of Battlefield 4. They chose a horrible full screen AA for the PS4, that's why the XB1 version looks (in my opinion but it's not a popular one) better.

CD/MP3/DLNA to be implemented in a future PS4 patch.

The ESRAM cache if fully utilised still leaves the Xbox One at a significant power disadvantage even before Kinect eats (approximately) 10% of the resources. MS are working to find ways to free that up but it's not enough to counter the 50% deficit.

Kinect hasn't taken off, it's a party toy - Sony did well to make their camera a separate item people can choose to buy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

Kinect takes no more console resources than a standard controller - all the processing is done on the Kinect.

And Kinect still holds the record as the fastest selling consumer device ever......V1 might have been limited, but V2 is a lot more powerful - making every console have one will mean that all developers take advantage of it...

[asdf]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

>And Kinect still holds the record as the fastest selling consumer device ever......V1 might have been limited, but V2 is a lot more powerful - making every console have one will mean that all developers take advantage of it

Yeah except many gamers like myself don't enjoy standing up and waving our arms like wankers when we want to play. If I wanted the exercise I would go the park for free. Forcing me to pay $100 extra for a device I will never use, I'll pass thank you (not sure if buying the PS4 either yet at least not right away as my TV is not even 1080p so need to upgrade it first). It seems Microsoft hasn't learned what Sony learned the hard way last generation that absolute price matters regardless of the amount of crap you can pack into the box for the "value".

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

"PS4 upscales in software, whereas the Xbox One does it in hardware" Upscaling is bad whichever. Hardware upscaling is bad because it's not upgradeable.

BF4 on PS4 in NATIVE 1080p 60FPS looks way better than the 720p crap of the Xbox One. It seems there are some Microsoft shills desperate to convince people they didn't screw up the hardware specs, and plenty of idiots that pre-ordered one keen to believe it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

>>It seems there are some Microsoft shills desperate to convince people they didn't screw up the hardware specs, and plenty of idiots that pre-ordered one keen to believe it. <<

And there are still anonymous twats happy to drag what was an interesting conversation about the architecture of the two new consoles back into name calling and fan wars.

The grown ups are talking, shouldn't you be watching CBBC?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

"BF4 on PS4 in NATIVE 1080p 60FPS looks way better than the 720p crap of the Xbox One"

BF4 is UPSCALED in SOFTWARE on the PS4 - the Xbox One version looks better. Numerous reviewers have said so.

[asdf]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

>HDMI input capability

Yeah that is definitely at the top of every gamer's feature list for a gaming console.

[Stuart Castle]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

It's not a valid comparison because most games actually do most of their processing on the GPU in the machine which, being integrated into the CPU itself, will undoubtedly be able to communicate with the CPU at a far greater speed that the GPU and CPU in a PC can communicate. It also means you can't directly compare clock speeds. Put a 2.4GHz Core 2 against a 3GHz P4 and you'll see what I mean.

Also, bear in mind that the consoles are actually competing against the low-end and mid-range PCs. Not the high end stuff, which can cost an order of magnitude more than the console. How long will it be before a low end or mid-range PC will be able to manage 4K gaming?

[h3]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

Depends how they choose to do it. Not sure what the point is where you no longer need anti aliasing.

2 - 7870 Tahiti's in crossfire at £130 each (More in common with the 7900's than the rest of the 7800's like the consoles use)

Motherboard - £75

AMD Piledriver 8 core 4ghz - £150

Something like that.

(Advantage that anything they can do at 30fps you should be able to do at 60fps).

And you get the choice what is acceptable and what isn't (For me anything less than 60fps never will be - The American NES had 60fps it should have never been open to question).

The PS3 (Along with the Saturn) are consoles that will be remembered as forever wasted potential.

[XTREME]

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

You know nothing and want to teach?

PS4 + Huma + TrueAudio + Matle = very fast for gaming.

4K monitor / TV will be a standard 2020 "maybe" and speaking UHDV 8K ... laughable.

Keep your world Wonderland or change your medicine.

[Talic]

So the PS4 is for "play". But I read here that it won't play mp3 or stream DLNA.. What kind of 'play' is that.

I'll stick to my PC thanks

[A J]

It won't have those features at launch. There is at least one article out there where Sony employees discuss what features will be added in future. I believe they have confirmed CD and MP3 playback as a 'coming soon' feature.

http://www.giantbomb.com/podcasts/a-chat-with-shuhei-yoshida/1600-670/

One issue with any new platform is the time it takes to build the OS software for it. Both Sony and MS are cutting it very fine, releasing the hardware before the software is completely finished, and hence both have some missing features at launch that are promised to be added later.

[wowfood]

Lets face it though, when was the last time anyone really used their ps3 as a CD player? I mean movie playback via netflix, blu-ray player sure. DVD / CD? I honestly wasn't aware they existed these days.

[Anonymous Coward]

CD's are those funny things that people prefer when they want to listen to music, not a tune.

[Michael Habel]

Funny I thought those were the things you let Google Music Rip for you.. (Wait does Google's Music Manager ever rip CDs?) before you upload them to Google's Cloudy servers...

[Michael Habel]

If you ever played any Driving Games, Grand Turismo 5, for example. Then you'd appreciate the ability of loading your own Music (al-la mp3's), to the PS3. You can also do this with the X360. Although you have to rip those from a CD. ANNOYING, and I forget if Fozza had the ability to play User Background Music. I knew it didn't (or I couldn't find a way to use), have a Dash Cam like the GT5 Premium Cars had / have.

So I quickly gave up on it and returned back to GT5 again!

[system11]

The Xbox One can't actually play disc based games out of the box, you need the 600mb or so patch for that. The PS4 is missing some functions out of the box, but playing games it will do.

[Anonymous Coward]

Guess you missed the news from a couple of days ago that Sony confirmed these features are coming soon.

No software update can however fix the Xbox One deficiencies sadly.

[Great Bu]

I think Sony are probably right...

Now that you can buy a TV with internet and network media streaming built right in to the monitor, why the hell would you want to pay extra for that ability in your gaming console ? I would rather the money went on making it a better games machine.

When I first got my PS3 it was always in use as the house DVD/BD/Streaming Media server as well as games console but now that the combination of TV and Sky box does all that guff independently, the PS3 is only used for games.

The market requirements have changed from when the PS3 came out to now, and I think Sony are actually going the right way, rather than Microsoft who are trying to sell you a box that plays games and also does a whole bunch of stuff that my TV / PVR already do better.

[kyza]

Users: Build us a gaming machine, that plays games, and ignore all the multimedia stuff that gets in the way of playing games!

Sony: Here, have a console that's completely prioritised gaming.

Users; WAAAHHHH! Where are all the multimedia functions!?!?!

Sony:??? *sigh* OK, we'll give it to you soon.

[JLV]

well...

I got my PS3 as a BluRay player back in 2007, because it was, and still probably is, one of the better players to deal with all the BluRay disc version issues.

Later on I found that there were some, not many, PS3 games that I wasn't allergic to.

Graphics are nice, but not the end-all of games. YMMV, but, in my opinion, consoles don't FPS, strategy or wargames very well. RPGs or Portal Wombat clones can be top-notch however.

I also got into Netflix on the PS3. My Samsung TV does Netflix now, but that TV model has _lots_ of users complaining about flakey wifi connectivity. It's dropped mine several times already, but I've managed to get it to reconnect so far (never quite sure how, or what upsets it in the first place). Great TV otherwise.

I don't get cable, just internet, so I like the idea of having the PS3 as a fallback.

Having a console that does NO multimedia is a big red flag to me. Because I trust a console's media support capability way more than a TV's firmware.

It's fine if Sony provides this as later add-ons, I won't upgrade till there are <20$ games available on the PS4 anyway.

The one thing they are welcome to ditch is web browsing. Unless... they come up with a nifty web controller.

[Fill]

Open up development to the masses!

It is interesting that they mention the "App Store". Will they open up development to anyone? I'd certainly like to see what the casual programmers out there can do. I doubt they would, especially after yanking the PS3's ability to run Linux.

[Hoe]

Joke...

This generation of consoles is a joke, M$ lived up to their name and removed support for old wheels etc. Sony joke about M$ changing their mind when they removed Linux from the PS3, YES we remember Sony!

Both consoles are seriously under powered, no multi-monitor with for me is a huge downer running everything in Eyefinity.

Neither are close to cheap and games are already being 'held back' for the consoles, AKA Fifa next gen which EA say the PC can't run, another joke.

Sony and MS shouldn't be trusted, long live Valve, let's hope Linux / Steambox's works out for games, can you really see EA backing it?

[Robin 12]

Not on my shopping list.

My PS3 was purchased to be a central part of my living room, not just a game console. Without support for flac, mkv's via DLNA, I won't be looking at upgrading until the PS4 can replace the PS3. I have more than enough games for my PS2, PS3 and Wii to keep me busy for years. New consoles mean there will be many games in the discount bins. :) I may look at the PS4 when they fix all the missing features of the PS3 that were once part of the reason I purchased the PS3, Linux.

[Al_21]

Re: Not on my shopping list.

Same for me - the additional bells and whistles is the main reason I went for PS3 - an important piece of entertainment in my living-room, especially for USB playback and streaming media from my server.

My TV and DVD player are nowhere near as quick, easy and functional as the PS3.

[weenoid]

Re: Not on my shopping list.

I haven't yet decided on whether to purchase a PS4 or an Xbox One but, honestly, MKV support will be a major deciding factor. It will mean I can do away with my media player.

[Michael Habel]

Re: Not on my shopping list.

But the PS3 to the best of my memory didn't support Matroska either.

I'd like to say that it didn't support Flac either, but then WTF is Flac? Its just lil'ol *.mp3, and the PS3 actually does support that. The built-in DLNA Server/Client on the PS3 is about as useful as every other leading Industry Branded Solution I've seen *cough* Samsung "All Share" *cough* i.e. BADLY BROKEN!

To wit, if they can't give us a fully working DLNA Server/Client, I'd just prefer they skip it!

Or else it just becomes a bit of a sick joke. Once you manage to get an actual working DLNA Server/Client installed. Be this on the PS3 a Phablet or your SmartTV!

[happyBoy]

Re: Not on my shopping list.

Xbmc on ps3 / ps4 - now that would be awesome.

[Michael Habel]

Re: Not on my shopping list.

But the PS3 to the best of my memory didn't support Matroska either.

I'd like to say that it didn't support Flac either, but then WTF is Flac? Its just lil'ol *.mp3, and the PS3 actually does support that. The built-in DLNA Server/Client on the PS3 is about as useful as every other leading Industry Branded Solution I've seen *cough* Samsung "All Share" *cough* i.e. BADLY BROKEN!

To wit, if they can't give us a fully working DLNA Server/Client, I'd just prefer they skip it!

Or else it just becomes a bit of a sick joke. Once you manage to get an actual working DLNA Server/Client installed. Be this on the PS3 a Phablet or your SmartTV!

SIDF?! Really why all the down votes? If your gonna down vote me then have the decency to state just where I'm wrong then? I can see where I might have fu--ed up confusing Flac for Lame. I really don't know what was going though my mind at the time. But I stand by the rest of what I had said!

[Oh Homer]

"We stopped trying to make a product that was all things to all people"

In other words, the new and "improved" model has been deliberately designed to be worse than the old model.

Genious!

[Fill]

Re: "We stopped trying to make a product that was all things to all people"

They took away Linux but never adequately made the other aspects of the PS3 work well. I have a PS3 and use(d) it a lot and it's a sea of worthless menus that I only bothered to dig into because of annoying things like clearing the drive for enough space for the next game install. I tried to explore their version of the App Store, but it was messy and again the demos took too long to download and ate up even more precious space.

If they can focus it, yet open it up for the masses to develop on, that would be great. And, I'm not just talking about Linux, I mean the average hacker to put something together and sell their wares on a PS4 Store. That would be neat.

[sabroni]

Re: Genious!

You are!

[Oh Homer]

Re: Genious!

Woosh!

[Zmodem]

sony stole my specs off another forum of what would be needed to make profit and be able to use the same version for the next 5-6 years, they even stole the £350 tag an average person would pay for a new console

[Anonymous Coward]

@Zmodem 04:54

Please, post a link to the other forum so we can gaze in reverence at your marketing acumen.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: @Zmodem 04:54

My prediction was way off. I'd predicted they'd downsize the cell process and up the clock rates, while finding a way to attach the GPU to the CPU. I was half right, it still ended up an 8-core chip with a GPU attached, just not the 8 core chip I was expecting.

Then again I also had a theory they might use two mid range GPUs for their 4k goals, and switching one GPU off for less intensive tasks / games, so devs had an option of high framerate / resolution with twin GPU, or better lighting / physics effects with single gpu and slave GPU for calculations.

I could totally be a game dev >.>

Y'know if my second idea weren't so expensive in comparison.

[Zmodem]

Re: @Zmodem 04:54

I knew it was going to have a 8 core amd, a gfx card with gddr5 and 8gb of ram with equal bridge bandwidth to stop bottle necking as intelligent coders can store all textures and models in ram and be able to use any at anytime in any render frame, games will look and feel twice as big if dds textures or similar are used

when pc's start to have 4096x4096 textures, consoles will start to have 2048x2048 and then the ps4 might need a revision release

[Zmodem]

Re: @Zmodem 04:54

models are an average of 12mb, you can have 100 x 12mb with ease in the physical RAM along with 10,000 HD worthy textures, and suck them out with your 110gbs bridge speed

a console gamers would happily wait 3 mins for a level to load, if the console has a slow drive

[OscarG]

Yes, because MP3 playback is "too hard."

BS, Sony.

This is a response to backlash over the fact that the PS4 doesn't have basic media-playback capability. Not even CD playback, which is built into every cheap-as-dirt Chinese DVD drive!

The media player and UI on the PS3 are pathetic, but instead of fixing them with a simple user interface, Sony just DELETES the functionality altogether! Oh, but they had time to REQUIRE Facebook integration for user avatars and photos, instead of simply using the camera that COMES WITH the system.

As time goes on, it's clear that there aren't enough designers to do the work that's required.

[MartinB105]

Re: Yes, because MP3 playback is "too hard."

They probably require Facebook photos because it removes the burden of cleaning up the naughty pictures from Sony. If Facebook take pics down because they violate TOS, then it presumably will disappear from PSN too.

As for MP3 support... I find it very hard to get worked up about something that I already have in dozens of devices, including my XBMC system on my TV, which completely crushes anything that any console can do in terms of media.

Ultimately, the reason I'm buying a PS4 is purely because that's where the great games will be from developers like Naughty Dog and Quantic Dream.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Yes, because MP3 playback is "too hard."

Where have the said too hard? The bits I have seen from Sony suggest they were (rightly) lower down the priority list than gaming and Blu-Ray functionality.

The day one update adds 90% of what I want. The missing parts (CD, MP3 and DLNA) are all confirmed to be coming soon in a future system update.

That's good enough for me. Much better than delaying the console by 16 months like they did with the PS3.

[Not That Andrew]

Re: Yes, because MP3 playback is "too hard."

Yeah, but it doesn't play Blu-ray discs out the box either.

[kyza]

Re: Yes, because MP3 playback is "too hard."

But funnily enough:

IT PLAYS VIDEOGAMES

Which to be quite frank is 100% more than the Xbone which does nothing whatsoever until you download the Day1 patch.

[TechRenegade]

Who is giving me a "thumbs Down"???? (is that you Joerg?) -- lol

There is nothing in my post to "Thumbs Down" unless you just don't like how history played out. What I said in my first post wasn't merely some "AMD fan-boy opinion" .... I'm simply informed. Everything I stated is simply historical record. Intel has an established historical record of plundering AMD's patents constantly, so I'm doing the right thing to help make it more well-known. Intel has been a bully corporation for years. Another example: They stole the thunder of a little-known non-profit organization's "One Laptop Per Child" program, a low-cost laptop with a special low-power display designed to be practical for third-world countries. Intel competed with their own design that was *for*-profit. The dedicated founder, and humanitarian of "One Laptop Per Child" has been clearly bitter and bewildered at Intel's behavior about it in video interviews.

I'm just stating facts for the record. AMD cannot be obsolete without Intel also being obsolete. This is a fundamental established fact. Everyone here obviously has the ability to "Google" up all the facts and see that I am correct on all my key points. It is widely known in the technology industry that AMD invented all the core technologies Intel capitalizes on.

I am an IT technician and engineer by trade. I assure all of the good smart readers here that I am 100% comfortable with the integrity of my statements. Thank you for reading my comments. Cheers! :^)

[DryBones]

AMD reverse engineered the Intel 386

Looks like they've been stealing from each other for a bit, now. Whatever.

http://www.techspot.com/article/599-amd-rise-and-fall/

[TechRenegade]

Re: AMD reverse engineered the Intel 386

This is of course true, but I was talking about the past decade of chip development. Not further back than 2003. In the old days, AMD was just getting started in the business of producing x86-based processors. It's a little like how anyone who made a car in the early 1900's could have been accused of "copying" the four-wheels-gas-burner-and-seats strategy, but how many ways were there at that time to build a car? Not many at all. It was all just the basics back then.

I don't see how a huge corporation such as Intel can justify copying anyone's technology with the development cash they have. They have no excuse to not be emerging with technology sooner than AMD, but usually they wait and see how well AMD does with something before deriving their own version of things.

[Anonymous Coward]

@TechRenegade 06:45

Have another downvote for whining about getting downvotes.

"There is nothing in my post to "Thumbs Down" unless you just don't like how history played out"

Actually, there is. Your points aren't actually addressing the OP's post. He never said AMD was obsolete, just one of their chips. Your "I'm not a fan-boy" claim is undermined by the way you phrased your arguments - that's the giveaway, not *what* you say.

"I am an IT technician and engineer by trade."

Funny - most people here make that claim. Not impressed. The lack of proof doesn't help in that regard, either.

"I assure all of the good smart readers here that I am 100% comfortable with the integrity of my statements."

Again, everyone here tends to feel the same. It really doesn't mean anything.

[Paul Smith]

...historical record of plundering AMD's patents constantly,..

As proved in court so many times that AMD makes more money from the fines and penalities imposed on Intel then they do by selling chips. Oh wait, they don't.

"I am an IT technician and engineer by trade", don't feel too bad about it, I used to work in Currys too.

[Horridbloke]

@TechRenegade

I just downvoted you for complaining about downvotes.

[TechRenegade]

17 Who is giving me a "thumbs Down"????

17 Thumbs down for my defending my views?? Looks to me like a few too many Intel fan-boy followers on here take issue with true statements against Intel but obviously are cowards because they have no argument of their own. Just a thumb to jam up at TechRenegade.

Those thumbs look a lot like middle fingers if you ask me. Go ahead stick your lazy thumbs at me. See if I care. Anyone who does is just an Intel butt buddy

[Sorry that handle is already taken.]

Re: 17 Who is giving me a "thumbs Down"????

I think you're getting downvotes now purely because those people want to see you keep melting down. If you stop complaining about it, it'll probably stop happening...

[Anonymous Coward]

A little something about supercomputing architecture from someone in the business.

First of all, I have been in the supercomputing field and architecture for 15+ years and can speak as an expert in the field. I can say without a doubt that game developers are not distributed architecture or parallel programmers. It's a completely different breed. I have to agree with Sony's statement in that the architecture was sound but development can find it too much of a burden to try and learn to work within. I see this in my field all the time. WIndows and even linux programmers are just not equipped in using this kind of architecture. The ramp up and time frame it takes to develop a game much less any application has immense pressure coming from a variety of sources. The PS3 had a powerful IBM architecture behind it that is sound and proven and it still is under developed. It still has a tremendous amount of potential but like everything else is being killed because of the limitation in the field of developers that quite honestly, if you know how to program in a distributed parallel supercomputing architecture, you wouldn't be in business of writing games.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: A little something about supercomputing architecture from someone in the business.

"First of all, I have been in the supercomputing field and architecture for 15+ years and can speak as an expert in the field."

Ah - someone on the Internet who says he's an expert. This should be someone I can trust.

Oh - the entire argument is "other programmers are crap." So much for that.

[TechRenegade]

Re: A little something about supercomputing architecture from someone in the business.

Why do people like you bother attacking peoples' credibility? That's not only immature, it's rude, irrelevant, and makes no point whatsoever. He's just trying to articulate that his ideas don't come from idle speculation and rumor.

What is your job? Do you get paid to Troll people?

[happyBoy]

Re: A little something about supercomputing architecture from someone in the business.

Don't think anyone is saying 'developers are crap' - rather that the cellBBE was harder to code for rather than the more established x86 based platforms. Which is one reason PS4 is back to an x86 architecture.

[Mike Brown]

it only does everything

Is the main reason that i love my PS3. Its my one stop shop for media playback, and games. Its the beating heart of my living room. And until the news broke that the ps4 cant do the media stuff, i was set to buy one. Not now tho. Ill stick with the ps3.

[Thecowking]

Re: it only does everything

Same here.

My PS3 streams from my media server, it pulls Netflix, it plays my DVDs and blu-rays.

I hear tell it even can play games, but in the last few years I've not really had a chance to test that :p

I would have loved a PS4 if it did everything the PS3 did, but with a better UI and faster.

[Matt_payne666]

Re: it only does everything

My view exactly, I don't have time in my life or space in my media centre for a dedicated games machine, I do have space for a multi purpose device... my ps3 - its versatility is what pushed it head and shoulders above the Xbox when I bought it...

To leave out simple, basic functions seems very short sighted... it makes sense to add used features to an expectant audience, it also helps in the Dick swinging contests....

Its not like Sony don't know much about media playback!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: it only does everything

all those features coming soon. Just cancel your pre-order, let someone else have it, and pick up one when it's been added. Simplez.

It's nigh on impossible to get a PS4 lined up with side of Xmas, so I doubt Sony really care too much about a few cancelled pre-orders, there are ample people waiting to slurp them up. If they can catch users like you in a software update early next year, that's fine too.

it's unlikely they are going to lose any potential sales to Xbox One, as after seeing it's unfixable hardware spec problems, compared to a handful of easilly add-able PS4 features, most people will simply hang fire.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: it only does everything

"compared to a handful of easilly add-able PS4 features, most people will simply hang fire."

I can't see Sony being able to add HDMI in, hardware PIP overlays or Kinect anytime soon, so the PS4 will remain a feature crippled and very low powered PC...

[MJI]

Re: it only does everything

But better for playing games

[Michael Habel]

Re: it only does everything

Why the Blueberry fart would I want HDMI-IN on a Games Console for?

Answers on a Postcard please!

[asdf]

Re: it only does everything

>I can't see Sony being able to add ... Kinect anytime soon

Good especially if I get the console for $100 cheaper because I am not forced to buy a wanker peripheral I will never use.

[Anonymous Coward]

PC's

Possibly good news for PC gamers as these machines are both basically PC's inside, so porting to hgh-end kit should be a doddle.

[Belardi]

10 year life span?

I'm not seeing it... The PS3 is 8 years old. The PS4 is already using $150 GPU class graphics. uHDTV 4K should be standard in about 4-5 years.

As LONG as they use the same X86 class CPU again... then development costs will be almost nothing. Just take what AMD has off the rack and tweak it a little. In 5 years... they SHOULD release the PlayStation 5 and it will be 4x faster than todays console. But may need 10x in order to do 4K games properly.

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't the current gen teach you ANYTHING? There were plenty of idiots that compared on paper the spec of the Xbox GPU, the PS3 GPU and a PC GPU, and came to some sort of conclusion (with the help of Microsoft's presentations on the subject)

They then saw Uncharted 2 and Killzone3 and quickly realized that their conclusions were totally flawed. The PS3 GPU didn't work in isolation on PS3 games, all the Cell SPU's were also doing GPU rendering, and when you added up the true system GPU capability, it was in the region of 8x more powerful than the GPU-only paper specs suggested.

The latest Jaguar chips are very similar in this respect. The PS4 (and only the PS4) uses shared GDDR5 memory between the GPU and the CPU, meaning the APU's can render in the same way the PS3 SPU's did, meaning much more power than the paper specs suggest.

Microsoft dropped a MASSIVE bollock by going with cheap and cheerful DDR3 in the Xbox One, as they miss out on all this goodness, which is why all the games so far that move serious amounts of stuff on screen are all limited to 720p/60 on Xbox One.

[MJI]

RE : AC 11:03

Well after seeing some XB1 multiplayer of CoD Ghosts I am of the opinion that Killzone 3 multiplayer is better graphically.

There are always things going on (various levels have a MAWLR in them), various drop ships, bullet holes remain there all game.

Still amazingly good looking after nearly 3 years.

[Anonymous Coward]

"and quickly realized that their conclusions were totally flawed. "

Most games on both consoles are better on the 360 - and the most recent best graphics award on any console went to Halo 4...

"which is why all the games so far that move serious amounts of stuff on screen are all limited to 720p/60 on Xbox One"

Forza 5 is 1080p / 60fps. Xbox One has things to make up for that DDR3 like a 200GBps on chip cache and advanced hardware tiling and compression that the PS4 doesn't....

[kyza]

Sony only stopped making the PS2 this year - 13 years in production, 150mn+ units sold.

When Sony are talking about a 10 year lifecycle, they're talking about total lifecycle across world markets - there's likely to be PS3 support (proper support) for at least another 2 years, possibly longer.

[Michael Habel]

Why do you People keep bringing this up?

WHO THE FLIP CARES IF THE PS2 WAS STILL BEING "SOLD" IN BUMF**K INDIA!!

They haven't sold a single Console here (i.e. Europe or the US FTM) for Years now.

And, please fell free to direct me to the next High Street Retailer that still sells that brand new FIFA Game that you People are always banging on about along with the above fact that S0NY only killed the PS2 in the last Nine Months.

Cause NEWS-FLASH its been dead a hell'va lot longer then that Pockko!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's supposed to be a games console. It will probably be a very good one.

Blah blah haswell, blah blah supercomputer. Whine whine media centre moan.

Blah!

It's supposed to be a stable, non changing format to allow games developers to develop games that will work on any device and not require new graphics card, more ram, a processor upgrade etc.

[MJI]

Will it play games?

That is my main concern.

Oh and it will play games not available anywhere else.

Roll on Naughty Dog

[Szymon Kosecki]

Emulation anyone?

I am looking forward to XBox one and PS4 emulators for the PC. Surely now, it should be possible to get the emus going with a reasonable speed (assuming they will get created of course)

[Zot]

PCs will struggle with the new console games

Until they get at least 4Gb of video ram, they will have problems. Look at the issues people are having with CoD Ghosts on the steam discussion forums. Their PCs 1-2Gb graphics cards are really struggling to push the data back and forth. Also the GPU can be used for processing other complex parallel tasks that can be available by the CPU without data transfer.

[Zmodem]

Re: PCs will struggle with the new console games

most of them have gtx 680 with pci-e 3.0 running at pci-e 1.1 speed, as most motherboards do not have pci-e 3

if all motherboards had pci-e 3.0, gtx 680 would still cost £600, not £90

[Sorry that handle is already taken.]

Re: PCs will struggle with the new console games

"If all motherboards had PCIe 3.0, video cards would cost more."

Wait, what?

[Michael Habel]

Its a classic case of damned if ya do [PS3], and damned if you don't [PS4]

In the case of the PS3 it may well had been a case of too much to soon.

But, now post PS3, we kinda expect to have those "Features" now as standard.

And, I still don't get why the PS4 can NOT play back unprotected *.aac *.mp3 & *.wma Files?

As for DLNA crap I have a NAS Box and a HTPC w/XBMC on it to cover me there, and unlike S0NYs broken, Much like I would say about Samsung's Allshare Service. Just works. Every time, any time!

I really don't know why these clowns offer us this "Ability", and yet refuse to support something as basic as the Matroska. Container Format. (i.e. *.mkv)

Its even more of a shame, that Once you "Jailbroken" your PS3 (up to CECH25xx) Sorry you newer guys are SOL!, and then install the Showtime Media Player on the PS3. Most of these "Problems" just melt away! To only be plagued by Alerts of low RAM Memory. So not having DLNA on the PS4 is not that great of a loss to me.

[teebie]

"we focused on enabling this great play."

...by which we mean posting videos to facebook.

[eJ2095]

Takes me back to the 90s

Sega Vs Nintendo eh lol

Mine has x amount of colours mines has stero sound.. lol

[JustNiz]

Neither for me

I won't buy either as the new generation of consoles ride all over any notion of users rights. I apparently have a longer memory than most sheep-like consumers so won't trust either Microsoft or Sony as they have both demonstrate continuing and systemic policy of abuse with stuff like rootkit scandals and cutting people off from media they already bought whenever they feel like it.

Besides I dont give a flying *uck about social networks or whatever other "value-added" shit they're building in with this generation. Call me strange but I just want a simple box that plays the game I bought, and without becoming some company's bitch to do so.

This new generation's always-watching-me tech, requirements to be always-connected + mandatory ongoing paid subscriptions to Live or PSN, and artificial restrictions on used games can all suck my ass. Even though Microsoft hastily weakened some (but not all) of the most heinous restrictions after so many people spotted them and complained that even they were nervous about upsetting Christmas launch profits, its blindingly obvious that within the next few compulsory firmware updates, the same or worse restrictions be added right back in. And of course Sony won't be far behind as soon as Christmas is over.

I think I'll just keep gaming on my PC which I already own, already has better performance and graphics than the surprisingly and disappointingly low hardware spec of new consoles too.

I am still interested to see what Steam console looks like though, as its basically a standard (user-hackable/expandable) PC and I can't imagine Valve also has the the same customer-rights-insulting mindset as Microsoft and Sony do (at least yet).

[Scubadynamo]

Fed up with hearing about specs

Im so fed up with this spec battle between the two consoles. IT DOESN'T MATTER!

These are games consoles NOT PC's, they will play games at a decent standard for that game for the next x amount of years. Every time a new console is released people start analysing the specs and making assumptions. The average user isnt interested in how much bandwidth the RAM has in a console etc, more on what games it will run and how the controller feels.

I feel comparing them to PC's is silly, a PC from November 2005 that cost around £280 wouldn't stand a chance of playing many games now yet at the time I remember several articles of people building "xbox 360 beating" machines (that usually cost a lot more than £280). Ive just built a PC last week (due to needing one asap) and it is technically higher specced than either of the new consoles but I bet its obsoleted sooner than a next gen console.

Also try building a decent gaming PC now for £430, it might match on paper (maybe) but itl be big, loud and unable to play games at max settings on 1080p.

As for the resolution argument I dont think it matters so much on a TV when your sat on the sofa, on a pc when your 50cm away from the monitor definitely, if it was that important MS and Sony would have ensured 1080p minimum support for all games.

On paper it looks like the PS4 is more capable but I doubt itl make much real world difference, I really cant see MS letting Sony getting ahead of them by that much, Both are custom systems as far as im aware and both probably have advantages and disadvantages but at the end of the day what appears on the screen is going to be quite similar. I think the biggest disadvantage of both machines is a lack of a SSD!

Personally I think Sony will sell more initially because of the bad PR floating around the xbox one and its high price in comparison. Day one updates and whatever aren't an issue in my eyes, who doesn't buy a console because they have to download a patch? Ive not pre-ordered a console and will probably wait a year or so to buy one because then we will know exactly what advantages and disadvantages there are. Right now I want a steampad more than anything...

BTW im no expert however ive been playing PC/Console games for around 20 years and ive built all my games pc's myself.

Oh yeah and as for who copied who with AMD and Intel, who cares, just buy the cheapest chip that gives you the performance and functions you need, ive had both over the years and they've both been fine (except the P4 Prescott...shouldve gone AMD then but that was a long time ago now!) don't understand why there is brand loyalty with these two?

[Zmodem]

Re: Fed up with hearing about specs

they will both be dead before console coder have caught up and are able to use actual ingame footage on the tv adverts, and just render a script anim in the actual game engine like a standard cutscene

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish Nintendo hadn't ran out of ideas. I would be buying a Wii U for under the family TV as I'm too old to care about specs let alone argue about them.

The video gamer has always been a finicky beast, price point will be sneered at if they try to raise the specs yet these consoles are in ipad price range and cheaper than iphones.

[Piro]

I have no problem with removing the extra features

If I ever did purchase a PS4, it would be for one reason, and one reason alone. To play games exclusive to that platform.

Same goes for Xbox One.

For the rest of the stuff, we have PCs that are simply far more flexible and powerful, so why would you even want a ton of half baked features in your game console?

[Zmodem]

Re: I have no problem with removing the extra features

a console would look better on your TV stand next to the bluray and skybox, and have a more powerful smart TV, then a big ATX PC box

and the PS4 will keep your kids quiet for 1hour 40 mins while they unbox it on christmas day

http://www.twitch.tv/pcper/c/3245192

[Kenneth3]

Are you going to start reporting on the crashes and overheating?

[Soggytoast]

While this is a novel marketing approach - ("For the Gamers!" they exclaim) - I think the majority of consumers will just see this as an excuse for being "watered down". To be on top in this industry, INNOVATION is everything. I don't think the PS4 is very innovative, and it seems that Sony is even embracing that approach.

It also does not help at all that their release titles are very weak, when that is really the only selling point they have left.