MPAA, RIAA: Kids need to learn 3 Rs – reading, writing and NO RIPPING

A collection of copyright enforcement groups including the Motion Picture Ass. of America and the music label body RIAA want to use school time to teach youngsters about the perils of internet piracy. First unveiled in September, the plan calls for elementary schoolchildren (up to grade 6, or 12 years old) to be given lessons …

[LaeMing]

Careful what you wish for.

If everyone really did become a 'responsible creator' I can already hear Big Media screaming about 'home creativity destroying the professional creation industry' because people are too busy exploring their inner selves to buy the mass-produced version..

[AndyS]

Re: Careful what you wish for.

It's a trick though. If you're a major industry-backed "artist," you get to sample, re-use and re-mix existing ideas, songs, visuals etc to create something new. If any regular member of the public tries the same, they are infringing copyright. Make a nice video and set a well known song as a sound track? Or even record a section of it while a song is playing in the background? Blocked.

Since such a large part of creation is about re-use, and since the various Asses of America have pretty much done their best to ban that to their non-members, what they're really interested in encouraging people to be is consumers, not creators.

*Edit: Woohoo, editable comments!

[HollyHopDrive]

Re: Careful what you wish for.

i.e. Brainwash your young victims to enable you to continue to run your cartel without listening to what consumers really want. All the time blaming these "bad pirates" rather than your outdated business model.

"Hello boys and girls. Hands up if you know what a cartel is....... nobody........good."

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Careful what you wish for.

You sound like a paranoid nutjob.

Here, I'll fix it for you:

"Since such a large part of creation is about being paid..."

[MrDamage]

@ AC Posted Tuesday 12th November 2013 20:07 GMT

"You sound like a paranoid nutjob."

Says the paranoid nutjob too scared to post under his own name.

[Graham Marsden]

Re: Careful what you wish for.

And' don't forget that whilst they're "teaching youngsters about the perils of internet piracy", they're not teaching them how to avoid dodgy managers and rip-off contracts with big media companies which mean that they end up with most of the money whilst the artist ends up with a pittanance...

[VinceH]

Re: Careful what you wish for.

"And' don't forget that whilst they're "teaching youngsters about the perils of internet piracy", they're not teaching them how to avoid dodgy managers and rip-off contracts with big media companies which mean that they end up with most of the money whilst the artist ends up with a pittanance..."

So the question little Johnny should be asking in this lesson is "Sir, what's the difference between someone who creates, and someone who copies?" to which the answer should be "Someone who copies is ripping off the media companies, while someone who creates is someone the media companies would like to rip off."

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Careful what you wish for.

Marsden: Bitter and twisted as ever.

Even with the many rip offs of the old music business you could still earn a living. Now Google and pirates are in charge, you can't.

[Graham Marsden]

@AC - Re: Careful what you wish for.

Hmm, an Anonymous Coward who refers to me as "Marsden"? Now who do I know who does that...?

And as for "Even with the many rip offs of the old music business you could still earn a living", there's a difference between making a living and being paid fairly for what you do. I recall a documentary about Queen and Brian May commenting that he was still living in a bedsit whilst their manager had just bought a new Rolls Royce.

Still, I'm sure he was happy just "earning a living"...

[Michael Habel]

Re: Careful what you wish for.

By way of that proxy. and with all the brew-ha-ha over the comming 50th aniversery of Doctor Who.

Just who does "Who" belong to anyway. The BBC or the License Fee Payers who actually made / make it all possible?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seduced politicians

When politicians see they might get money to put into their budget I can see them getting very excited, however any commercial interest should not be allowed to influence education. It is totally ignorant to think that there will be no bias in the curriculum, even if some well meaning people in these organizations try, they cannot be helped as they believe only their approach is correct and nothing less is acceptable.

Healthy debate is needed on digital copyright and educating young people is correct, but let educators educate, not lobby groups.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Seduced politicians

The organisations mentioned have amply demonstrated that they are a bunch of disconnected fuckbags and I agree that they -in particular even over other commercial interests- should be not allowed to go anywhere near education.

Even if they pull this off, though, it's not going to work. Telling teenagers to do things a certain way is a recipe for them doing the exact opposite.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Seduced politicians

I don't know if this is a standard part of the curriculum already but my kid goes to the local state primary and I distinctly remember their second year there, they came home with a sheet of coloured in pics with a Microsoft logo in the corner and they'd spent a week ( being brainwashed?) about the basics of copyright infringement within a wider context of online safety. Learning that taking "music and fun movies" from the internet without paying or without asking is very naughty.

Every year they have another round of "brainwashing", each year they learn the same lessons to a more advanced level. This being the last year before Secondary at the age of 11 they're learning how social networks like Facebook, etc work and how to stay safe on them, once again being drilled into their responsive, little brains the AA's party-line that taking music and movies from torrent sites or downloads sites could be funding terrorism and organised crime at worst, and at best depriving artists of a living.

The usual bullshit over the top message told to impressionable kids, doesn't seem to stop the Mums and Dads at the gate swapping and trading knocked of DVDs from the local "bootys" or copying vids they've knocked off from torrent sites!

[Beau]

Mpaa, Riaa say "Quite right too"

"Be a Creator," then you too can be ripped off by us, even more than the general public, what a good idea.

[Grave]

Re: Mpaa, Riaa say "Quite right too"

"be a creator"

- thats rich, coming from middlemen of an outdated and no longer needed business model. parasites, who exploit and abuse the real creators

here's a reality check:

phase 1: art used to be valuable because it was a sole and unique creation of the artist

phase 2: this was changed with invention of numerous methods of duplication - and the art became a consumable commodity, which became more and more affordable to masses as the methods of duplication became more efficient and cheaper to mass produce.

phase 3: this was changed once again, with the invention of pure digital duplication and widespread of interconnected networks. the process of digital duplication itself requires no resources, which leads to art as an infinite resource, therefore transforming itself from commodity into resource.

-there's already such a huge volume of art available its not only no longer plausible to charge "per commodity", its counterproductive. and the volume is only going to get bigger, much bigger, exponentially.

-the only reasonable way to monetize this is to charge a flat rate "per service"

-ideally to keep it simple, as a part of your ISP rates (percentage).

-royalties to artists paid out by "volume". more popular = artist gets a bigger piece of this pie.

[Chairo]

I wonder

if part of their teaching is to report their parents to the RIAA, should they download anything.

Now that would be progress...

[frank ly]

Re: I wonder

Steady on. The USA isn't the 50's USSR. Not yet anyway.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I wonder

Why not just show then "Electrogonorrhea: The Noisy Killer" instead? May be more effective.

[RobHib]

@Chairo -- Re: I wonder -- Quid Pro Quo!

Quid Pro Quo!

Kids also must ALSO be taught to report the MPAA, RIAA and their cronies when they rip off out-of-copyright public domain works, wipe them over then re-copyright them for the next hundred years or so.

These mongrels have only one goal and that's to copyright--and charge for--as much of the world's information as they can possibly get away with. Pretending they're white knights is utter crap and we need to expose them.

This is not only MPAA and RIAA propaganda but it's also brainwashing our kids and it should be exposed as such.

[Anonymous Coward]

@Robhib

Yeah, Rob. Because that's the real crime here.

Not the destruction of opportunity for talented people through theft. Not the destruction of decent US jobs while Kim Dotcom buys another car and Eric Schmidt buys another jet.

The crime is making people pay for stuff they use!

[Intractable Potsherd]

Re: @Robhib

If you aren't open enough to post with a recognisable -nym, then you don't deserve to have any attention paid to you. The fact that you post the same tired old astroturf every time, and are recognisable by the terms you use doesn't alter the fact that you don't have sufficient confidence in your views to allow others to search your previous posts.

By the way, have you noticed that you are in a huge minority here - doesn't that tell you anything at all?

[Destroy All Monsters]

Curriculum suggestion: Don't give f*ck

In particular, COPYING MAKES SCIENCE LIVE.

How is the outcome of that Intellectual Property Enforcement Program in the newly liberated Iraq coming btw? I haven't heard anything new about it since 2004 or so.

[Anonymous Coward]

Mind control

This is what used to happend in the dark days of SOviet Union.

Brainwashing and propoganda.

Since when did the USA go that way? What about the free will of the people and Democracy ?

[ThatGuy]

Re: Mind control

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! Good one!

[PyLETS]

Re: Mind control

It seems to be their efforts at mind control through the threats and propaganda you get in the non-skip section at the start when you load a DVD or when they have you as a captive audience in the cinema which has turned the public against them. Prior to the peer to peer communications made possible by the Internet, mass media was the only message on this, and it published their side of the story and there wasn't another side considered by the publishers with a vested interest as being fit to be heard.

As to allowing every industry with a vested interest control over part of the school curriculum for their business motivated propaganda, that isn't what schools and teachers are for.

[DiViDeD]

Re: Mind control

Don't you hate those non-skippable 'You wouldn't steal a policeman's helmet, go to the toilet in it, return it to his grieving widow and then steal it again' (thx IT Crowd) and 'Here's some other shit movies we'd like you to buy' sections on DVDs?

They're a bugger to remove cleanly when you're ripping a disc. or so I've heard..

[Amorous Cowherder]

Re: Mind control

"They're a bugger to remove cleanly when you're ripping a disc. or so I've heard.."

Nah, use "DVDFab", I've not found one DVD out of 350 odd so far it hasn't done a perfect clean, first-time rip of. Spotted the main chapter 100% accuracy so far too! Also I'm not paying £15 for DVDs, wait 6-9 months and you can get 'em second-hand for a about a pound a go from Amazon marketplace or FleaBay.

[croc]

Re: Mind control

"This is what used to happend in the dark days of SOviet Union.

Brainwashing and propoganda.

Since when did the USA go that way? What about the free will of the people and Democracy ?"

Ever heard the phrase 'American Exceptionalism'? Do you believe it? They gotcha. I suppose that you also think that you live in 'The Land of the Free, and the Home of the Brave.' They gotcha. Again.

[Tommy Pock]

Sponsored curriculum

Great idea!

On Wednesday morning the reception class will be held by by Special K representatives, teaching the importance of starting the day with a breakfast consisting of 17% sugar.

Wednesday afternoons is loan practice in the Wonga block

[Bert 1]

Re: Sponsored curriculum

It did take me a while to bust through the Special K hype. You seriously cannot lose weight while eating it. Very cynical.

[Mystic Megabyte]

Re: Sponsored curriculum

Get school kids to check the claims of big business.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/mar/27/schoolsworldwide.foodanddrink

[Tommy Pock]

Re: Sponsored curriculum

Also, watch out for linguistic tricks in advertising

[RobHib]

@Tommy Prock - Re: Sponsored curriculum

Of course, the linguistic trick here is for the MPAA to make us all feel guilty over copyright whilst it condones theft from the public domain then enforces copyright on that theft.

They're really hoodlums. Trouble is governments still listen to them.

[Suricou Raven]

Re: Sponsored curriculum

Check the other cereals though - they are all just as bad, with very few exceptions.

[Bert 1]

Re: Sponsored curriculum

You've got to go for the "Just cereal" options such as Weetabix or Shredded Wheat.

[Tommy Pock]

Re: Sponsored curriculum

I've been thinking about this. Egg on buttered toast is seen as a normal healthy breakfast, as is cereal with milk and a light sprinkling of sugar. Perfectly normal.

Using exactly the same ingredients (flour, eggs, milk, sugar), I can make cake.

So I eat cake every morning. You can't argue with science.

[Amorous Cowherder]

Re: Sponsored curriculum

Oh my God, you mean eating a bowl full of chocolate cover treats and full fat milk will not help me look like the skinny bird in the advert! Why?! Why would the marketing people lie to me like this?! I've been gobbling sugar-covered breakfast treats like crazy and all I have to show is a huge gut and dizzy spells when I stand up too quickly! Sorry? You mean I have go outside and exercise too? The box never said anything about that! Why would they lie to me?!

[localzuk]

Let's generalise this a bit

Rather than focusing on copyright infringement, how about teaching about law from a relatively early age? You know, the basics of what laws exist in our individual states/countries etc...? As it stands, hardly anyone actually knows the laws where they live. They know a tiny snippet of it, spread by gossip most of the time.

[wowfood]

Re: Let's generalise this a bit

I'd actually second this as a "life skills" class. Teaching kids how to pay bills, fill in cheques, what their consumer rights are, how to rent property etc. Giving them more information in since there's no point teaching a gradeschooler about buying a house, but teaching them their consumer rights and some basic law would be useful.

[Sir Runcible Spoon]

Re: Let's generalise this a bit

I'm still pissed off at the lead-in on DVD's saying that downloading pirated movies is STEALING. It actually makes me want to steal and car with a handbag on the seat containing a movie.

Actually, since that is a lie, and it's an advert - will complaining to the ASA get me anywhere? Anyone know if it's already been tried?

[Flocke Kroes]

Advertising illegal downloads

The lead-in with the girl downloading a film made an excellent advert for illegal downloading. I assume RIAA and MPAA want similar adverts in schools so they can do a Prenda.

[Crisp]

Re: Let's generalise this a bit

Who says advertising doesn't work!? :D

[Vic]

Re: Let's generalise this a bit

> the lead-in on DVD's saying that downloading pirated movies is STEALING

It very carefully *doesn't* say that downloading is stealing - it just implies it rather heavily.

It's a dreadful piece of propaganda - pretty much everyone comes away with the message they wanted you to get, even though they didn't *actually* say it...

Vic.

[Sir Runcible Spoon]

Re: Let's generalise this a bit

Sorry Vic, but you're wrong..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmZm8vNHBSU

[Vic]

Re: Let's generalise this a bit

> Sorry Vic, but you're wrong..

My aplogies, you are correct. It does indeed say that downloading is stealing - which is factually incorrect.

ISTR a version that juxtaposed two statements together to create the *implication* that it was saying that, when it hadn't. Perhaps there's been some editing going on. Or perhaps I've had an incorrect[1] quantity of beer.

Vic.

[1] It is left as an exercise to the reader to determine the sign of such error :-)

[John Tserkezis]

Re: Let's generalise this a bit

"...but teaching them their consumer rights and some basic law would be useful."

That would be terrible.

BigCorp would no longer be able to get away with rorting the nation's youth.

[Amorous Cowherder]

Re: Let's generalise this a bit

Ha ha! Ha ha! Oh man you're are so funny!

Knowledge is power and the last thing the government needs is for a huge bunch of plebs ( that's you and me ) to know anything! It's been that way since the earliest days of writing, who were taught to read and write? It was a select few in the church or priesthood. It was only during the industrial revolution that those in power realised that people had to have some basic reading and writing skills in order to operate the new industrial machines. Those in power finally caved and grudglingly started giving basic 3Rs lessons to kids, Sunday mornings only mind you and just enough to be able to read a little and count enough to read the dial and settings on the machines.

As those machines and processes have become more complex and to make sure we behave like good little plebs and pay our taxes, we have been taught more and more complex ideas. However kids are still only taught enough to get by and then taught to regurgitate facts in a parrot fashion, individuality of thought is frowned upon by those at the top. Sensibly quite a few of us do use the basics to get a leg up and do something worthwhile with our minds, with access to more information we are constantly educating ourselves on so many subjects at such a rapid rate that our wonderful leaders do worry that we know too much so they find other ways to punish us for trying to be too clever.

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe they should educate their members about the 'fair use' doctrine first.

[Sir Runcible Spoon]

Sir

Headmaster: Ok, if you want to you can put it in at 2pm on Thursdays, but in the interests of balance we'll be running it between the course on' downloading torrents via VPN' class and the 'how to protect your own content from big corporation stealing bastards' class.

[Anonymous Coward]

would this include...

The creative accounting that is practised by the movie and music industries to hide royalties due to "creators"? Didn't think so....

[DropBear]

Ok so I'll agree with this being in the curriculum, but only if in the name of impartiality it will include equal time teaching RMS's stuff. It would amuse me to no end if some of the tykes would conclude that sharing freely as long as they still get to make a living is the way to go...

[Frankee Llonnygog]

Thee Rs my arse

The only Rs these bastards know about are (mis)Representing artists, Ripping them off, and getting Rich in the process

[Danny 5]

seriously?

Rights holders propaganda in the classroom? Commercial parties telling children what they can and cannot do? Really? I am taken aback!

[Anonymous Coward]

Homework assignment for Shaun Nichols

Prove the impossibility of being creative without being a freetart.

Hint: reductio ad absurdum

[Crisp]

The MPAA and RIAA are pitching the idea of grooming kids early?

Did no one at those groups stop to think about the unfortunate implications of this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The MPAA and RIAA are pitching the idea of grooming kids early?

By "grooming" you mean teaching kids to respect property rights and not steal?

Wow. So you equate the sexual exploitation of minors with teaching social responsibility and respect for creators.

Just wow.

[DiViDeD]

Re: The MPAA and RIAA are pitching the idea of grooming kids early?

"By "grooming" you mean teaching kids to respect property rights and not steal?"

We're not talking property rights or stealing here. Walk out of a Virgin Megastore with a copy of Avatar under your coat and you've stolen from that nice Mr Branson. Before you did that he had 300 copies, now he has 299 (steal enough copies and he can order a smaller skip come stocktake time)

Make a COPY of existing media (from whatever source) and the sum is:

Before 'theft' the owner had one

After the 'theft' the owner had one.

And I'd love to know why MPAA/RIAA are so keen that WE respect the rights of the content creators while they work so hard to rip off creators in any way they can.

[spiny norman]

And next ...

When are we going to see "The Best Youtube Album in the World Ever", priced at 17.99 and not paying those oh so creative children anything? Should be good for a series from 1 to 96.

[frank ly]

Creative Class

This would be great if the kids were allowed to wear pirate costume fancy dress, complete with cardboard swords.

[TheBeardyMan]

The MPAA and RIAA are thinking of the children a little too much here. Maybe we should put their executives on some kind of list...

[John Sanders]

Teaching children about the dangers of piracy.

I'm all for my children to be told about the perils of piracy, how plundering, stealing, murder and rape are a big no-no, because it is a direct attack to both life and private property...

Uh... wait...

[Cosmical]

Teaching law is a good thing....

Just not a special interest groups interpretation of that law.

Yes teach kids about copyright, why it exists, etc. Then explain how the law is being abused to fill the pockets of big business, how little artists and writers are paid, how the take down notice system is being abused and the use of automated bots is damaging creativity.

Yep, teach the kids, but teach them ALL SIDES of the argument!

Of course the first step is to actually decide what the law is and how it should be applied. Part of the problem is that the pace of innovation has overtaken the pace of change in the law

[jonathanb]

No arithmetic?

Obviously they don't want them to learn arithmetic any more because they they would discover that their "calucations" of "losses" arising from "piracy" are complete rubbish, saying as they assume that every "pirate" would pay full price for every single item they "pirated" if they weren't able to get a copy by the means they did obtain it, and that the money they didn't spend on their CDs and DVDs didn't get spent on anything else either.

[Pypes]

Should keep the kids busy

While the teacher goes and photocopies another 10 page handout from that particularly expensive textbook.

[Robert Carnegie]

"Be a Creator"

I don't think the Creationists will like that! Maybe they'll join our "Axis of Free-vil"?

[Shane 4]

3 R's

Maybe a bit of their own medicine,

Relic

Rude

Rip Off

Comes to mind!

[Suricou Raven]

An effective new approach?

There have been two major approaches to industry-led copyright education campaigns in the past.

- Guilt. Tell the children that artists deserve to be paid for their work, and downloading is no different from stealing.

- Fear. Tell them of the harsh legal penalties they may suffer if caught.

The problem is that neither work too well. Guilt is undermined by seeing the vast wealth that successful celebrities flaunt at every chance - hard to feel sympathy when downloading music by some rapper who wears more bling than I could afford in a year. Fear doesn't work because a quick look around shows that the number of casual pirates suffering these consequences is negligable.

So this is a third approach.

- Hope. The possibility that, one day, copyright law could make *you* rich. So obey it now, and reap the rewards when you too are a successful artist.

People like hope. That's why lotteries are so successful. There are still weaknesses. Eventually the kids will work out that being an artist is much like being a professional footballer: For every mega-star there are thousands upon thousands of also-runs who need to take a real job to make ends meet, and their chances of being in the former class are rather slim even for the most talented. Which, realistically, few of them are. But even so, that hope can be a powerful thing.

[Anonymous Coward]

In theme with copyright bullshit, the UK decided to extend the copyright duration to 70 years.

[Suricou Raven]

Actually, Europe decided to establish a duration of seventy years for music. This was justified as 'harmonising' the various copyright terms of member states into one EU-wide term. The UK went along with it, but weren't responsible.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's simply amazing...

...that parents and schools are not already teaching kids right from wrong and that stealing is a crime for which they will be punished - as they should be. Obviously we have some older folks who flunked out of school at the age of five because they still have not learned the reality regarding piracy, but they will.

[DiViDeD]

Re: It's simply amazing...

After careful consideration, I have decided that the most reasonable and objective response I can offer to your comment is BOLLOCKS!

Copyright Infringement is NOT stealing. It is copyright infringement. 'Piracy' is not a bunch of venomous scum attacking ships and putting everyone to the sword after buggering and torturing them. It's copyright infringement.

Whether right or wrong, it's not on a par with murdering someone or setting fire to orphanages, despite the penalties the MPAA/RIAA would like to see imposed.

And on the subject of the rights of creators, it's not creators who get the money, it's Copyright OWNERS. And owners of copyright are generally publishing or distribution companies, not creative artists.

[Intractable Potsherd]

Re: It's simply amazing... @AC moron

If your employers at the various IP protection agencies haven't made their case successfully to someone like me - law degree (including an IP module), MA (including a great deal of IP), and a PhD in the social effects of governmental involvement in social goods, then they really are failing. My considered, educated opinion is that the media industry is as relevant to the modern IT-enabled world as leech-breeders are to modern medicine.* Certainly in music, what I see is a bunch of middle-men trying to maintain their ability to make money from both people who can do something** and the people who want to buy it in a market where it can all be done in a direct way. The film industry may be a slightly different case, but the principle still applies.

It is clear I am not the only one who thinks the same, and yet you insist on ad hominem attacks on our education, intelligence, and honesty. You really are a twat, aren't you?

* I know there are some edge-cases where leeches have been re-evaluated for some conditions, but that only reinforces my argument.

** In general - I am yet to be convinced that anything in the charts is being done by people who have any clue what music actually is.

[Irongut]

be creators and innovators just like their favorite musicians

Except the musicians targeted at children are anything but creative or innovative. They usually sing bland, derivative songs that are written by someone else and sound just like the tripe aimed at the same age group some 10 years before.

[SleepyJohn]

American Big Media running school brainwashing campaign

A school system officially peddling insidious, manipulative propaganda from a despicable, money-grubbing cartel that is barely distinguishable from Organised Crime? Every corrupt social blight in the US must be rubbing its hands in glee at the prospect of these floodgates opening for access to the malleable minds of little children.

"Just sign that cheque, sir; I'll fill in the amount. The classroom is first on the left."

How do parents feel about schools using their children as commercial cannon-fodder?

That this is being taken seriously enough to actually discuss simply beggars belief.

[Sureo]

Re: American Big Media running school brainwashing campaign

Taking this a step further, taxpayers are struggling to pay the wages, benefits and pensions of teachers. Corporations would be delighted to step in and provide instruction at no cost to taxpayers. We're already well down that road by now anyway.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck 'Em

This is why we homeschool.

[MrRtd]

I'd much rather children learn the concept of sharing, cooperation, fair-use, before anything "anti-piracy".

[Rick Giles]

Dear Sweet Jesus!

I am so glad that my youngest is going to just miss those shenanigans!

It's bad enough we let the Gov. dictate what a "good" education is, now they are going to let these assholes in the door!? I can see the home schooling numbers going up now...

The RIAA needs to stop running the label like it's 1991 and stop living off there catalog from 1983. Music is a service now, not a product.

If the MPAA and the RIAA keep this shit up, I'm going to stop being a consumer and just read books and learn how to (better) play the guitar.

[Sheep!]

'Be a creator' not a soulless, money-grabbing bastard who's only interest in creativity and innovation is what money they can make off the back of it, or the MPAA and RIAA as they're better known.