'Burning platform' Elop: I'd SLASH and BURN stuff at Microsoft, TOO

What kind of company would Microsoft be under Stephen Elop, we asked. We have an answer... of sorts. Elop would kill Bing and Xbox as a Microsoft chief executive and go "all business" by developing Office for as many non-Windows devices as possible. Nokia’s CEO is reported by Bloomberg be considering the strategy should he …

[Simon Rockman]

Bing is the reason for buying the entry level phone business

I can't see Microsoft giving up on Bing. It's the reason why Msoft bought all of the Nokia phone business and not just smartphones.

For all the "failure" of Nokia they still sell north of 20m phones a month, and there are plenty of parts of the world where the Nokia lead in distribution makes them the strongest brand. This is many people's first touch with technology. They may have access to internet cafes but putting Bing in their pocket is the way to get them using the Microsoft service before they get sucked into Google.

If Microsoft didn't have designs on this they would have left the Asha/S40 range in Finland.

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Bing is the reason for buying the entry level phone business

Is it still worth a loss of $ 1 bn a year? And Nokia's marketshare was down in some of the emerging markets like Mexico in the most recent figures, IIRC.

While it is important to stick with some things (technology, market) in the face of advice to ditch them, you also need to define criteria for success and cut your losses if you can't meet them. Both Lou Gerstner and Steve Jobs were able to do this. Microsoft's biggest mistake has been to lose focus and try and take both Google and Apple on at their own game, at the same time. It is the business market which has been the most loyal to MS and which has the best margins. Yes, there are threats from the competition but also the opportunity for Microsoft to grab the largest slice of the new markets: what price would businesses be prepared for Office on IOS or Android? And ancillary services to make it play nicely with existing infrastructure.

If Microsoft ditch Bing then regulating Google becomes a matter of paramount importance for anti-trust regulators around the world, a situation which is likely to provide more opportunities than continuing to pour money into it.

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: Bing is the reason for buying the entry level phone business

There's a downside to selling Office on iOS and Android. MS would have to sell through the app stores. That's 30% of the revenue going to Google and Apple. If they really went big on it, and sold Office suites for £50 a pop (aiming at the business market) - that could mean handing loadsamoney to their rivals.

Your point about dumping Bing and Google-opoply could be interesting. There are big rewards for controlling search. Not only advertising cash, but user-tracking and the fact that you have a lot of control of how people access information - and what information they see. So it's a big thing to give up, there's a good reason that they've splurged so much cash on Bing. Google could become unpopular quite quickly, and then Bing would be well placed to pick up the goodies. But there's a lot of 'if' in that plan...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: 30% of sales

The good thing about Android is that you don't have to sell through an app store at all.

In fact Microsoft is well known enough that it could easily sell direct, especially to business. In fact it could roll out a secure Office, VPN, Exchange client, systems monitoring system all controlled by Group Policies and take on the sort of business that Blackberry was aiming for.

Microsoft could move to Android, without actually moving their phone division to Android.

[Michael Habel]

Re: Bing is the reason for buying the entry level phone business

Google could become unpopular quite quickly, and then Bing would be well placed to pick up the goodies. But there's a lot of 'if' in that plan...

I think that's more to do with YouTube and Google+ at the moment then their creepy Search Engine.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Bing is the reason for buying the entry level phone business

Bing is finally starting to work like a real search engine - and now MS is all full of talk of jettisoning it.

Brilliant. And typical MS strategy.

Bing is finally good enough that I use it more than once a day for various tasks. Up until recently, it was so poor that I was going months without using it.

Will he want to kill off IE also? IE 10 and 11 are finally fast enough and have a small enough memory footprint that I've begun using it for limited tasks.

[Renan "C#" Sousa]

Re: Bing is the reason for buying the entry level phone business

If it took them 11 years to come up to speed with competing browsers, then I will consider using IE again by 2024.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is 30% to Apple and Google a problem?

You don't think Microsoft gets anyone near 100% of the sales price when a home user buys a copy from Best Buy, or a small business buys a few from a VAR, do you?

The advantage for them would be that it reduces the opportunity for alternative Office suites to gain any more traction than they already are. That should be worth giving up a small cut. Not that there is really a need for an Office suite on a phone or tablet beyond a reader, or perhaps a simple editor on a tablet. People aren't going to be writing term papers on a tablet, even if it has a keyboard cover.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Bing is the reason for buying the entry level phone business

"Is it still worth a loss of $ 1 bn a year"

Actually Nokia make a profit last quarter, lost peanuts on it's rapidly growing Windows Phone business, and is likely to turn that into a profit on the mobile business alone in Q4 this year...

[fishman]

Re: Bing is the reason for buying the entry level phone business

"Actually Nokia make a profit last quarter, lost peanuts on it's rapidly growing Windows Phone business, and is likely to turn that into a profit on the mobile business alone in Q4 this year..."

You seem to have forgotten that Microsoft has been giving Nokia $1B/year.

[Michael Habel]

Re: Bing is the reason for buying the entry level phone business

Why there's still Yahoo. and Ask.com Duckduckgo and to many others to bother thinking about.

Google may be the best known and most used Search Engine ...in the, World!!, but I hardly see why that should be their [Googles'] problem.

As for Microsoft batting a blind eye towards the Business Sector yeah I find them guilty I love to know how they plan, or if they ever planed on trying to sell Windows 8 to the Corporates?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Bing is the reason for buying the entry level phone business

"I can't see Microsoft giving up on Bing. It's the reason why Msoft bought all of the Nokia phone business and not just smartphones."

Just LOL. No it isn't. You think the Asha non smartphone range is going to drive major Bing traffic? Those type of handsets are just not high data volume. They might gain a small amount of market share, but it's peanuts relatively.

They bought Asha too because they wanted to make sure that Nokia would not compete in the mobile space for a few years - and to grab all the skilled mobile engineering resources that they could....

[Lusty]

Well, lets hope he doesn't get chosen. The fact that Microsoft are willing to spaff billions on these projects is what makes them a great software house. I'd love to see Office properly supported on iOS but not if it's done to please shareholders and ends with driving Microsoft into the ground.

[Anonymous Coward]

"The fact that Microsoft are willing to spaff billions on these projects is what makes them a great software house"

?!? it is ? they are ?

WTF

[Anonymous Coward]

"?!? it is ? they are ?"

The billions MS spend on R&D has kept them at the top of numerous business piles for years:

They have over 90% of the desktop / laptop OS market share.

They make the most money on games consoles

They have overwhelming market share in Office software

They have over 70% market share in servers and growing.

They have massive market share in numerous other segments like email, database, cloud, UC, etc. etc. etc...all growing....

[Cliff]

MS have taken some big chances in the past, and had dinner successes and some failures. The exploitation of the successes pays for the failures, not unlike Roxio, or Dyson for that matter. What MS don't do well is out of market stuff, Xbox excepted. They were late to the internet party, late to the search party, and despite making excellent browsers and search engines they have been on a back foot.

What Google are doing well now is what ms used to do well, integration. Gmail into docs into drive on all devices on own browser with cloud printing etc. MS lost that feeling, so maybe taking it for a haircut and getting back to it's roots is the right thing?

They'll never be fashionable though.

[Stephen Channell]

Now's a good time to stop spending on Bing...

We seemed to have forgotten that Yahoo! search programs were setup when "the web" got too big for Jerry Yang to do it manually himself; and AltaVista continued to be a useful search engine long after HP got rid of all the staff (though mainly for babel fish). Web-crawling, indexing and search query has not moved on exponentially in fifteen years and would continue to work with minimal staff and electricity. They’d lose the edge in profiling people for targeted ads and maybe the SEO stuff sites use to avoid paying for ads, but now is a good time to say “Search has been cracked; we prefer privacy to profiling”.

Same pretty much goes for Xbox: amortise the costs and focus on synergies with other PC platforms & wait for Sony to go bust under the weight. Provided we don’t get obsessed by NSA/Facebook monitoring, Kinetic will be a big part of how we use computers in the 2020’s, properly amortised the Kinetic experiment with Xbox will save the desktop franchise.

One area ripe for change though is horizontal integration: Office on Android/Linux; Android-Java/Obj-C apps on WinPhone; .NET on other platforms; desktop apps on WinRT

[MacroRodent]

Effect on WP

If Bing is binned, I wonder what happens on existing Windows Phones, where the search button is hardwired to launch Bing? But that probably does not worry too much the man who managed to Osborne Nokia's entire smartphone lineup...

[Roger Greenwood]

Re: Effect on WP

It's not about the past, it's about the future. You may not like it, I may not like it, that's business.

[swissrobin]

Re: Effect on WP

Osborne as verb = LOL.

Bing might still exist, just be operated by somebody else with a different cost structure such that it could make some money out of it. Even if they renamed it, bing.com could still direct you to their pages. So probably small impact on WP owners.

[trog-oz]

Re: Effect on WP

If bing was binned a simple DNS entry would redirect bing.com to google. Simples!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Effect on WP

"a simple DNS entry would redirect bing.com to ....the US Federal Trade Commission and the European Commission"

There, fixed it for you.

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: Effect on WP

MacroRodent,

Well if I was feeling all troll-like, I could counter-troll your troll by pointing out that MS could just release an update to Windows Phone, which would re-use the button for something else. Or just point it at Google, or make it user-changeable.

Google may have a broken update model on Android, but MS don't on Windows Phone.

They learnt from the security fun-and-games that really kicked off with XP, and the internet getting all popular. Surprisingly Google don't seem to have. With half the Android phones in use still being on 2.x, and phone manufacturers not even bothering to push out patches, there could be some big security screw-ups to come. Given how badly Microsoft's reputation was damaged by the saga of security - I'm amazed that Google have allowed this situation to continue. If it wasn't for all the pain it'll cause users, I'd want something to go spectacularly wrong, as a warning to numbskulls.

[MacroRodent]

Re: Effect on WP

@ I ain't Spartacus: Wasn't really trolling. In fact, I am an avid WP user (see the icon!). But it annoys me I cannot re-assign the search button now. There are good reasons Bing hasn't overtaken Google search that have nothing to do with imagined monopolies in on-line advertising.

[Aoyagi Aichou]

Re: Effect on WP

Maybe the button would be disabled then... which would be probably the first good thing about WP devices.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Effect on WP

"If Bing is binned, I wonder what happens on existing Windows Phones, where the search button is hardwired to launch Bing"

I don't know of any like that. All the Windows Phones I have used let you select Google as the search provider if you wanted...

"But it annoys me I cannot re-assign the search button now"

But you can....

http://snippets.pocketprimer.com/2013/05/24/change-the-default-search-engine-for-your-windows-phone-8.aspx

[MacroRodent]

Re: Effect on WP

All the Windows Phones I have used let you select Google as the search provider if you wanted...

It seems on WP 7.x you cannot. At least the instructions you linked to don't apply to my Lumia 710 that has been upgraded to WP 7.8.

[PaulyV]

Re: Effect on WP

Sorry to say you cannot, as that very article states:

"The Search button on the phone will still bring up and use Bing and you can’t reassign that button to use Google."

Happy to be proved wrong.

[Aoyagi Aichou]

Re: Effect on WP

Gotta love it how people keep flat out lying about the bloody search button. No, you can not change it on any Windows Phone device. All you can change is default browser search engine, but that has nothing to do with the button itself.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Effect on WP

Oh! Windows Phone!

I thought it stood for Word Processing.

[Salts]

Re: Effect on WP

I thought it stood for Word Perfect

[swissrobin]

I can see that ditching Xbox might make sense, strategically. A company like Amazon might be better placed to exploit the Xbox product as a channel to sell you stuff in your home.

Any future strategy for office must still involve a hosted version on the interweb, as well as native code for those that want it, regardless of host operating system. So I assume that runs on Azure (does it?).

So if Bing is somehow core to Azure then they would need to keep it - otherwise I cannot see it as worthwhile; how much better does it have to get before people would start to use it? Probably it is good enough as it is - the reason it doesn't get used is because so much traffic is forced to google, not because Bing is somehow worse at searching than Google. It's just never going to be cost effective to promote Bing to the point of profitability.

I wonder whether MS operating system group could go RedHat - allow the operating system to be installed for nothing and then charge for support; the enterprises are hooked either way and I am sure MS could work pricing out such that it's more or less the same to the average enterprise - it would remove the "MS-tax" from PC (in whatever form factor) sales which might breathe a little life into that dying market. What they lose in one-off O/S sales they might get back in support subscriptions from the enterprise at least. As the PC market declines, this must surely be a diminishing revenue stream anyway?

Of course if you want Exchange or SQL Server, those would still be licensed somehow - i.e. no free version - but again they could be licensed. Then the route is open to hosting SQL Server and Exchange on other operating systems. Net result could easily be a win (regardless of what you think of those products vs competitors).

Just thinking out aloud.

[Anonymous Coward]

> What they lose in one-off O/S sales they might get back in support subscriptions from the enterprise at least.

Even home users would be tempted by an offer of continued support for £10-£15 per year (which is what a system builder OEM license for a Home edition costs over 5 years) because very few people enjoy the process of changing machines especially when there is a new UI to learn.

The biggest problem with this approach is that it would nuke what remains of the relationship between Microsoft and its OEMs. The OEMs would no longer be able to rely on software-upgrade driven sales (arguably this is already the case) & thus lose any incentive to cooperate with Microsoft.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Even home users would be tempted by an offer of continued support for £10-£15 per year (which is what a system builder OEM license for a Home edition costs over 5 years) because very few people enjoy the process of changing machines especially when there is a new UI to learn."

Microsoft do have training people, but that would require them to completely redevelop their business. They'd basically have to merge with an IT consultancy (maybe even a big one like Accenture or Capgemini, or buying out a division of someone like Serco or Capita) to get the manpower. The regulatory issues would be a nightmare. And even then, consumers would probably reject it. Is paying the money worth it if all you get is phone support from some guy in Bangalore reading a script at you?

I'm sure Microsoft could basically fire all their developers, ice Windows 8.1 as it is and sell it for years to come as a legacy, EOL'd project for a nominal sum for years to come. But that's not how they see themselves. They want to stay the biggest company in the world.

[Cliff]

Add windows into the office 365 package maybe?

Although supporting home users is way costlier than supporting corporate ones who have their own tier 1/change the batteries in your mouse/anti conspiracy theorists... any business model that would support my dad for £15/year is doomed. And he'd complain about the price.

[Ian 55]

Depends on the actual level of support home users would get, wouldn't it?

There would doubtless be a market for 'We continue to provide patches, you have to deal with them' for XP at £10-£15.

[Michael Habel]

Hopefully this would usher in some decent Linux Machines into the OEM Market. Of course you'd have to find a way to educate the plebeians that Linux =/= Windows, and that they probably shouldn't expect their old Software to work with it. But, damned I'd love to see this happen.

Then again, it almost did with Netbook's till MicroSoft threw a spanner into those works.

Office on a Netbook = GOD-Tier Office on a Phablet = SH---Tier!

[Anonymous Coward]

The odds of Microsoft ever bothering to develop Office for non-Android Linux are zero.

I mean, why bother? Most people who switched to Linux did so because they hate Microsoft.

[No Quarter]

Metro-ised version of Office

That should keep Office 2003 popular for a bit longer.

[Frankee Llonnygog]

If Elop were CEO...

...he'd stop doing things that lose money, and focus on things that make money.

Radical!

[NobbyNobbs]

Re: If Elop were CEO...

For some reason I read that as "he'd do things that lose money and focus on things that make money" which seems to be more like they typical CEO.

This whole debacle has come about by some self prompting analyst spouting off and morphed into an "Elop is doing this" via crap news articles and blogs. If its did turn out this way, xbox would be boned as a stand alone product as it I would end up needing a feck load of corporate licensing for the buyers in the future let alone how they would deal with the servers. The PS4 and Steam box would kill it in a year sadly.

makes some sense to ditch bing which I suspect gets most queries from people who don't know how to change their default search engine.

of course it depends on if they think brand and market share are important and have a value.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: If Elop were CEO...

makes some sense to ditch bing which I suspect gets most queries from people who don't know how to change their default search engine.

That's a bit harsh ain't it? I mean if Bing only has One redeeming feature its to quickly find Pr0n Videos.

Not really something cut out for Google in my experience. I'm not saying that it can't be done with - [minus] this and + [plus] that. Oh wait you can't use "+" as search aggregate anymore since Google hijacked it for use with Google+. In any case finding Pr0nz is easier with Bing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm

Damn. I can't figure out if that is a massively ironic way of saying 'like I'd tell you lot what I have in mind' or whether he is, in fact, incapable of creative thought.

[James 51]

Elop seems to be a slash and burn sort of manager. Gets the shareholder a nice dividend in the short term, himself a nice bonus and tomorrow he can move on to pastures a new.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, a lot of high level managers do this. In manufacturing, they often come to a company for 2 to 5 years and throw the "hot potato" on to the next. This often includes NOT spending money on critical infrastructure, hence the toss the hot potato and pray it doesn't, literally, blow up on your watch.

Thank dog for governmental deregulation of industry.

[Zane]

Why not...

..end the war with the customer and make a word processor that is able to structure text?

Zane.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Why not...

Or a spreadsheet that has decent charting capabilities, and decent syntax...

But I really, really did like that idea of "ending the war with the customer". Sadly it ain't going to happen as the promise of a metro-ised Office shows. Take all of the very mixed blessings of Office, ignore the infamous ribbon fiasco, and one again stick an unrequested and unwanted new UI on the front end of the ageing and unimproved code. There's a winner.

MS are the world's most arrogant company, They know best, and you'll take what they deign to toss your way. As Elop is Microsoft through and through, even setting light to Bing and throwing Xbox out the window won't change that culture.

[Bill Gould]

Re: Why not...

"MS are the world's most arrogant company, They know best, and you'll take what they deign to toss your way."

Exactly how the iPhone, iPad and the UX in IOS and OS X were designed. Except that it was only Steve's opinion that mattered. One guy. That was all. If he liked it, it was forced on everyone else. If he didn't like it, you reworked it until he did or you were canned.

[Chika]

Re: Why not...

"Exactly how the iPhone, iPad and the UX in IOS and OS X were designed. Except that it was only Steve's opinion that mattered. One guy. That was all. If he liked it, it was forced on everyone else. If he didn't like it, you reworked it until he did or you were canned."

Quite so, but then the original statement wasn't a judgement of Apple's ethics.

Generally speaking (and lest ye forget, generalisms always have exceptions), pragmatism and American Corporates don't usually mix.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Why not...

" If he liked it, it was forced on everyone else. If he didn't like it, you reworked it until he did or you were canned."

But people like IOS. It has people falling over to part with shed loads of cash voluntarily.

I'd agree that both companies are arrogant. But Apple (under Jobs) produced innovative, desirable products, and his arrogance was driven by an understanding of what people would clamour to buy. Arguably the Xbox has been moderately successful, but start to finish it has lost Microsoft money. Everything else they've done has been supported by their de-facto monopoly in the workplace.

In my experience, nothing gets done in business of any worth by committee or by concensus. Compromise is the enemy of the good. So for the really good stuff you're always looking for a single smart visionary person to define and own a particular product, and to stomp on anybody who will pollute the perfection that might be delivered. That's the problem for Apple now. Tim Cook can ship a mean phone, but he's a logistics whizz, not a tryannical visionary. It's all progressively more corporate and evolutionary for Apple from here on. One day they'll be the new Microsoft - reviled but tolerated, unevolved, waiting for the newly evolved predators to bring them down and strip their carcass.

[Vociferous]

Re: Why not...

> In my experience, nothing gets done in business of any worth by committee or by concensus. --- So for the really good stuff you're always looking for a single smart visionary person

I'd say your experience is extremely limited. Even blinkered.

[James 51]

Re: Why not...

I use sigil for most of my word processing now. Makes structuring text pretty simple (as long as you've got a working knowledge of html and css).

[cambsukguy]

Re: Why not...

I regularly read on here how many alternatives there are to Office apps. I doubt most corporations would force someone to use a particular app to edit some document with so many BYODs around. Since they are 'real' alternatives, no-one should notice the difference.

So why don't you just vote with your feet and stop using Office and use one of the many alternatives? - even Apple have one now apparently.

If it is anything like what happened when I installed OOO (or OoO or ooo?) for someone, all I got was desperate request to 'at least put real PowerPoint back' because (apparently, at least that time), the 'alternative' didn't even let you write 'games' in PowerPoint which amounts to neat things happening when the mouse goes to certain points.

But maybe it will work for you, if not, ask someone to add the feature/fix the code.

[Anonymous Coward]

Where's the roadmap?

Not entirely stupid. Selling off those divisions would net them a bit of money. I'm sure some idiot would be prepared to pay for them.

But it's clear Microsoft have run out of ideas, or at least are too scared of changing Office to ever implement any. (To be fair, the amount of whinging they got when they added the ribbon probably deterred them - but then I'm one of the four people who actually likes it, so I would say that...) From now on, it's subscriptions not selling software, holding your data hostage on their servers, and giving up on anything ever coming to make Office better. Oh, and handing your data to the NSA. They know they have no improvements to Office in the pipeline anyone would pay to upgrade to.

It's not fit for business users, but I'm excited about Apple making iWork free, with no uploading your data to Apple's servers. If anything could make Microsoft realise that they need to make Office easier to use and more predictable, it's that.

[Michael Habel]

Re: Where's the roadmap?

To be fair, the amount of whinging they got when they added the ribbon probably deterred them.

Apparently not enough to stop them from birthing that monstrosity otherwise known as TIFKAM!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Where's the roadmap?

Yes, but the Ribbon was an attempt to make the UI better.

Metro was a desperate attempt to create a touchscreen UI that wasn't just a ripoff of iOS, and then backport it to Windows to make all Microsoft products look like a family. In other words, a creation of blind panic.

[Chika]

Re: Where's the roadmap?

It's a bit like the whole Google+ on YouTube business or the impeding Windows XP support end. They have taken an unpopular step and dumbed down the interface because the people behind it just don't have the smarts to do a proper job, then the marketing types dress it all up as "marvellous", "exciting" and so forth so that you are made to feel out of it if you resist. Then you kill the alternative functionality or, if you can't do that, you scare the users with whatever horror stories you can think up.

One consideration that was often made when I was still programming was that the programmer was often the worst person to make design decisions because they often frigged about with the application, adding bits that they thought were a good idea, until you get something that is almost completely unusable. That's what I see in the ribbon and in Metro.

A good bit of programming does what the user wants it to, mostly because they know what they want to do, and at least partly because a good programmer listens to what the user wants to do before they even start designing the application, let alone coding.

[Anonymous Coward]

Xbox is a dead end

It's never made them any money when you factor in development and warranty costs. Each time they believe it will be OK next time. Xbox one is third time lucky, and now that's all turning to crap too, with specs that put it only a bit better than current gen and a truckload of features that aren't ready or aren't available outside of the us.

I can really see Xbox being let go. Hopefully a hardware company will pick it up and do a proper job with it, not the disaster that Microsoft made of it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Xbox is a dead end

It would be nice to see Sega back in the game again.

Their last console the Dreamcast supported many games which ran on Windows CE,

When it was dropped, MS took their place and stepped in to the console wars as the 3rd competitor. The Xbox owed a lot to the Dreamcast, even the controller was similar.

[Anonymous Coward]

You Missed an important detail...

This Gartner source was an anonymous source who has an "insight" into what Elop is thinking.

Seeing as its the run up to a CEO selection this is definitely a story that needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. This source might just have read about Elop's tenure at Nokia, spoke to some ex-colleagues and decided that gave him/her enough "insight" into his way of thinking, it may be an ex-colleague at Microsoft or Nokia that has an axe to grind, it could be someone that favours one of the other CEOs trying to spread dirt or it could be someone trying to sell Elop to the shareholders.

Bloomberg is read by stock analysts who in turn advise shareholders. Most shareholders are in it for the short term gain and quarterly profits are more important than long term sustainability. Having someone as CEO who would sell non-profitable segments would raise the quarterly returns and thusly raise the share price making the shareholders happy.

There's also more to a products worth than its profitability. Google and Apple make losses on Android and iOS (R&D costs vs a zero sale price) yet if anyone even contemplated selling them off their arse would even hit the floor on the way out the door. The Xbox brand is still Microsoft's most loved brand and it pushes Microsoft product and services while also getting people adjusted to newer tech (its no coincidence the Xbox360 and XboxOne use a metro inspired UI) and not having a presence gives Valve, Google and Apple an opportunity to take that foothold. While Bing loses Microsoft money, they'd lose a lot more if they had to licence the service from Google or Yahoo, not just in money terms but in overall control of the Windows platform. Siri and Google Now are merely advanced search engines that run query commands for Android and iOS but are integral to how the platform works, without their own service Microsoft will fall further behind.

[wowfood]

IMHO

I don't think XBox will last past this generation anyway. Not because it's not good (even though I am a sony fan personally) but because of the convergence. They're moving to combine their platforms, they've already moved to combine marketplaces and the hardware of the bone is already pretty much a PC rig. I personally believe that this generation is the gen where Microsoft are going to try to pull all their xbox fans to the PC market now that they've dug their hooks in. Steam are already launching the steambox, and with Microsoft making a foray into hardware I can see them following suit, releasing a new windows 9/10 (or whatever it's called by the time the new gen ends... lets say windows X) so yeah, releasing windows X, on a new rig called teh xBox which is a prebuilt PC running windows X.

Only competition then would be the steam box,leaving the console space for sony and ninty, which would probably try to hold on to the glory days for one more generation. If either of them decided to join the PC console space I'd see it being Sony, attempting to release their own 'tweaked' version of the steambox with steam, and their own proprietory store as an extra hooked in .

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: IMHO

The Xbox as a traditional console might not survive but it might evolve. Microsoft could turn the Xbox into a platform like Valve is doing with Steam, modify the RT platform with a focus on gaming and set a high and strict core spec with flexibility outside of these specs and licence it out so you'll end up with a Samsung Xbox, an LG Xbox or even a Sky Xbox where they all can play games at the same level but one might support 3D movies, one could be smaller and without a Blu-Ray drive and the Sky model may have the TV receiver built in.

Microsoft offloads the manufacturing and advertising costs, pushes its app store as apps and games will be based on the main Windows APIs which will in turn drive revenue from the 30% cut they take.

[wowfood]

Re: IMHO

Probably wasn't that clear, but that's pretty much what I was getting at anyway. It does make sense at least, and I wonder if Steam didn't see the same thing on the horizon and have that as another spur that pushed them towards the steambox on linux, just in case Microsoft tried to pull an apple and block third party 'app stores' from Windows X.

[Chika]

Re: IMHO

I agree with the idea of convergeance between the XBone and the PC but given that the PS4 is also mostly a custom PC rig, I'm thinking that the next generation is probably the going to be the last unless somebody, whoever it is, comes up with something amazing. Somehow I can't see Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo doing it right now.

But you never really know....

[wowfood]

Re: IMHO

Like I said, my bet for sony atm is a steambox style add-on, y'know putting in their own 'custom store' to Steam, a store within a store... store-ception.

BUT

Another possibility is sonys HMZ 3d mounted headsets. Despite poor performance (relatively speaking) they keep pressing forward with it. They also have patents on all the brain wave reading crap that doesn't work yet, or doesn't work very well among other things. As doubtful as it is, I think come PS4 sony will start pushing the headset ,and come PS5 (10 years from now, give or take) they'll be trying to pack it all into the headset so you just lie back on your bed and play. No need for space etc, maybe shove on some kind of razor controller that tracks your hands in virtual space.

[Vociferous]

Re: IMHO

Microsoft is desperate to GET OUT of the PC market, they're not intentionally going to drag anyone in.

[Ian 55]

I wonder how much Nintendo would pay for Xbox

It must be clear to them that the Wii U is a flop and the cost in money and time to bring a successor to the market must be substantial.

[Shrimpling]

Re: I wonder how much Nintendo would pay for Xbox

The Japanese mentality wouldn't let Nintendo buy Xbox because that would be admitting their product was not suitable and they made a mistake.

To be honest I think the Wii U is going to have better sales figures this Christmas than people expect. A lot of parents are going to look at the PS4 and Xbox One see the prices and buy their kid a Wii U.

[Chika]

Re: I wonder how much Nintendo would pay for Xbox

If you think the Wii U is a flop, have you seen the Wii Mini yet?

[Captain DaFt]

Re: I wonder how much Nintendo would pay for Xbox

"have you seen the Wii Mini yet?"

Ah yes, there's a piece of work!

"The Wii U doesn't have enough over the Wii to convince people to buy it. What shall we do?"

"Uh, make a Wii that does even less?"

"BRILLIANT! Bonuses all around!"

Feh.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I wonder how much Nintendo would pay for Xbox

That would be a good home.

Microsoft are pretty crappy at making console. They are good however at brainwashing a nation of gamers into believing it's good thou.

[Al_21]

Google will miss you Bing

Surely Google will rather Bing still be around - else the EU folk will be more of a pain banging on about competition.

[Aoyagi Aichou]

OT

That reminds me, is an article summarizing Ballmer's reign planned? (Or has one been released here and I missed it?)

[Matt_payne666]

I'm no manager and don't really see the ins and outs of big business, but to me this slash and burn seems a little OTT considering the position Microsoft currently hold, they done 'need' the money...

Yes there is some restructuring to be done and some streamlining, but binning off a product that generates a lot of publicity (XBOX) seems a bit drastic, office on ios? Good idea, but then that is the final nail in RT's coffin... office is the selling point for surface.

Bing - hmmm.... yes I can see the point of binning that off, Microsoft will have Nokia maps to fall back on for mapping, so hopefully enhance that product...

Pruning branches makes a tree grow bigger, but cut too many and the whole lot wild just die... I think Elop could take a more cautious route....

[Davidoff]

Microsoft will have Nokia maps to fall back on for mapping

Only if they pay. Nokia's map section is excluded from the deal, as it is Nokia's remaining major cash cow. Once MS owns the cell phone part then they probably have to pay for Nokia Here, as they probably already do for Bing (Bing Maps is powered by Nokia map data).

On the positive side, this means we might see Nokia's navigation software on non-WP devices like Android, iOS and BB10.

[Anonymous Coward]

You already do...sort of

Amazon's Kindle uses Nokia's mapping service.

[I ain't Spartacus]

I can't see Elop being the right man for the job

At Nokia Elop wimped out. They had all these competing products and projects, and rather than sort out the mess and go with something they had, he dumped the lot and went Windows. A perfectly rational decision, in my opinion, despite the conspiracy theories. However, could a better CEO have been able to bang some management heads together, sort out the tangle, and make use of all that lovely R&D Nokia had so far wasted?

The reason I say this, is that Microsoft seems to be in the same mess. There are all these different management fiefdoms, and upper management don't ever seem to settle the bun-fights between them. Rather they seem to sit back, and see who wins. Which is usually nobody. The only recent exception seems to be Sinofsky, who half-managed to get Metro through the bureaucracy, on many different devices, although it wasn't as merged as he said/planned.

The difference is that MS still don't have the same level of competition on their main money-spinners, Windows and Office. Although it's getting there. Whereas Nokia were already deep in the doodoo when they called Elop in.

MS need a visionary as well as a manager though. They need someone to cut through the middle-management mess, but they also need to decide what they are. Are they a boring business services company, with server tools, Office and Windows for corporate desktops, or are they a consumer company too?

There's nothing wrong with cutting all the consumer stuff, accepting that 50% annual growth is no longer possible - and just sticking to the corporate market. They could just sit in that market, with 90% of deskops hoovering up the cash, and keeping the customers happy. Then, by all means, dump XBox, Bing and the like. On the other hand, there's been a lot of corporate cash spent on getting control of the TV, and computing into the living room. MS have done pretty damned well here, with the XBox, and if they lose the consumer PC market, but win the smart TV market, they could still be happy bunnies. Although the smart TV market is probably DOA, given how much nicer it is to control a tablet than a telly. But the XBox is a direct route to consumer computing nirvana, if you've got a credit card and you're hooked up to teh telly, then you're set to sell movies, and who knows what else. Seems a shame to throw it away...

In conclusion, they should give the job to me.

[revdjenk]

Re: I can't see Elop being the right man for the job

Elop, instead of taking Nokia onto more of the mobile stage by using as many of the available OSes as possible, ditched all and chose one, WP. Some say it is too early to judge the outcome, but it appears to have been so-so, at best.

So now, he would heave Office onto each and every OS available?

He is not being consistent.

Unless, it is to be consistently MS focused, and the tech is already re-calibrating its view of that dinosaur.

[dazzzler]

Is it just me.....

...... I quite like Bing!

[Davidoff]

Re: Is it just me.....

I like Bing, too. I really like the Bing picture of the day, and more and more often I find that Bing actually delivers better results than Google (which more and more seems to focus on finding me shops to buy something and not necessarily what I'm looking for).

Would be a shame if it dies.

[Tom Mason]

Re: Is it just me.....

I think Bing's biggest problem is the name. I can't hear it without thinking of Chander Bing, said in that horrid whiny Janice voice.

[Vociferous]

Re: Is it just me.....

I use it for porn searches. Bing's much better at porn than Google.

[Frances Banana]

Hey Mr. Elop...

...how about getting yourself to Finland, standing in the main square and telling all the people that your CEO bonus was for the great work of bringing Nokia's value down to the toilet level?

(explanation: if after that you become a CEO of Microsoft - then I am sorry - for me it looks like a "reward". A scenario like this is very common - bring value down, buy cheap, suddenly it makes PORFITZ!)

[Michael Habel]

What I don't understand is...

Why doesn't Microsoft start their own Microsoft+ Service you can use your Microsoft account to log-into the what would only be the BIGGEST Social Network of all time by simply installing Windows.

I mean look at how successful Google have forked up YouTube recently by tying all your Comments, and Votes to your very own Google+ Account! I do believe that MicroSoft IMHO have really missed a trick here!

And, as to Office on Android or iOS? WHY?!?! When 2/3'rds of the Screen is overran by the OSD Keyboard would you want to use a Program like Office on a Tablet? WHY! I'd rather silt my Wrists first.

As to ditching the XBOX Brand. As some other minds have chimed in. The Day of the "Unique" Console seems to be over. The PS4 and the XBONE contain more or less the same Hardware in them. At least as far as the ATI APU goes. Given that pretty much anyone can buy these "Chips" from AMD, granted they are slightly different! It should make things like the Ouya or say Valves Steam Box more easier & affordable to build, and then compete with both MicroSoft, and S0NY on their level. When you start to see it from this angle it kinda starts to make more sense.

[Davidoff]

Re: What I don't understand is...

"Why doesn't Microsoft start their own Microsoft+ Service you can use your Microsoft account to log-into the what would only be the BIGGEST Social Network of all time by simply installing Windows."

Probably because it already didn't work so well for Google who quite literally has to drag users by their feet to use Google+. Most people just hate G+.

[Davidoff]

Re: As to ditching the XBOX Brand

"As some other minds have chimed in. The Day of the "Unique" Console seems to be over. The PS4 and the XBONE contain more or less the same Hardware in them. At least as far as the ATI APU goes. Given that pretty much anyone can buy these "Chips" from AMD, granted they are slightly different! It should make things like the Ouya or say Valves Steam Box more easier & affordable to build, and then compete with both MicroSoft, and S0NY on their level."

The hardware is irrelevant, what counts is the software. Just because you can buy the AMD chipset doesn't make you able to compete with MS and Sony who already have the necessary infrastructure which the large game publishers want and which makes their consoles attractive to the masses.

And Valve is a good example how irrelevant the hardware side is to be successful in this market.

Ouya is more or less a crappy toy, it's cheap to manufacture but simply doesn't have the software titles to make it attractive outside a small fan niche, and certainly won't ever have it at a level enough to compete in the console market, and certainly not on a same level as MS and Sony.

[MJI]

Re: Ouya is on a losing bet as well

Ever since Vita TV was announced for similar money.

Sony keep going by owning some good game studios

[Geoff Campbell]

Business leadership for the 21st Century:

Making things work is hard. Selling chunks of the business to achieve short-term profit is easy. Sell, baby, sell!

FFS, near-on 30% market share for Bing, and XBox number 1 in the market, and he can't be arsed to try and make them profitable? The man's an idiot.

GJC

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: Business leadership for the 21st Century:

To be fair, it's sometimes good management to get out of markets that you don't think are important to the company. Or areas you have no management experience of.

Especially if there's someone out there who really wants to be in that market, because they think it would be a good fit with their business, in which case you may get a better price for selling that division than you could make in profit from running it.

On t'other hand, MS are just buying a consumer devices company, with manufacturing and distribution, and all that jazz. So it would seem a shame to dump XBox, when you've just bought in some of the expertise to manage it - and when so many other companies are desperate to get space on that TV. Although I think the future of living room computing is here, and it ain't the telly, it's the phone and tablet. Smart TVs are so horrible to use, that people would prefer to sit on the sofa using a laptop...

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft can't ignore a billion Android devices

They need Android to survive, it's the new Windows.

[Anonymous Coward]

Burning platform.

in the case of Xbox, it literally is.

I hear event the new one got so hot, they had to move the powersupply outside the box to a 2002 style power brick.

[Bob Terwilliger]

Burning Platforms Everywhere!

This guy seems to go from disaster to disaster.

[Anonymous Coward]

What's Microsoft Always Done Best? Monopoly!

So let's really hit this Office thing like we never hit it before!

Err.. Right. Maybe. But that's old Microsoft, isn't it? Doing something that it certainly won with in the past, but times change, and isn't the whole point that MS should be changing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Madness

It would be madness to port Office to Android.

I remember thinking years ago, when java first came out, that Java would not conquer the desktop, but it would mean that people who didn't like MS could migrate their apps AWAY from Sun onto Linux. That's what happened and look what happened to Sun.

If Office moves to Android, the only reason I and millions of others buy MS disappears. A particularly dumb business strategy. No wonder Nokia went down the proverbial.

[GrumpyMiddleAgedGuy]

It would be madness to port Office to Android.

I remember thinking years ago, when java first came out, that Java would not conquer the desktop, but it would mean that people who didn't like MS could migrate their apps AWAY from Sun onto Linux. That's what happened and look what happened to Sun.

If Office moves to Android, the only reason I and millions of others buy MS disappears. A particularly dumb business strategy. No wonder Nokia went down the proverbial.

[Mikel]

Oh great

Now when Microsoft makes him the CEO they are going to have to block Monster.com and LinkedIn at the firewall.

[Will Godfrey]

So, we have someone who thinks they can read Aesop's Fables Elop's fancy. I really don't think so. If Office went global it would result in a very quick death for Windows (no bad thing). Surely even the numptiest numpty could see that.

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope Bing stays around

Not that I use it, but we certainly don't want to be handing Google any more of a monopoly than they already have in search!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I hope Bing stays around

Google don't have a monopoly, they are just really good at things, and everyone else is shite.

It would be pretty poor if the EU came along and knocked the legs out from under Google, just so Microsoft had a chance with their inferior shit, to create a similar (but crappier) monopoly.

All these companies are trying to create monopolies, you have to choose, a good Google one, or a shit Microsoft one...

[Vociferous]

Re: I hope Bing stays around

> It would be pretty poor if the EU came along and knocked the legs out from under Google

The EU grudge against Google is apparently due to France having some sort of native search engine they want to protect, and also that Google doesn't comply with British and French requests to monitor searches.

[Tom Mason]

Stupid stupid stupid

Killing Bing and XBox would be incredibly stupid and short termist, because although they're not profitable on the balance book, the value they provide to microsoft, if only in terms of not being reliant on their major competitor for core functionality. Without Bing, where would MS get their data driven cloud services? Google use their backend to provide the engine for Google Now, Apple do something similar for Siri, and these are the cutting edge, attractive feature customers want, not to mention that the XBox brand is popular and highly recognisable.

See http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/11/microsoft-shouldnt-hire-any-ceo-who-wants-to-kill-bing-and-xbox/ for a better analysis of why killing those divisions would be a bad idea

[Vociferous]

Releasing Office for all platforms is the same as killing Windows.

Releasing Office for other platforms... that's the same as giving up on Windows, as Office is the one killer must-have app of Windows.

That kindof makes sense, as Android is winning the mobile market and common wisdom is that there will be nothing but mobile devices & clouds in the future.