Windows 8.1: Read this BEFORE updating - especially you, IT admins Microsoft is rolling out Windows 8.1 as a free upgrade for all Windows 8 users. But installing the new OS may not be as simple as it sounds, particularly for those with multiple PCs to manage, or those who installed the earlier Windows 8.1 Preview. The basics are simple enough: Windows 8 users can apply the update by …
...but even so, the arseholes could have made our lives easier by offering it through Windows Update. But then again, why should Microsoft think what might be best for customers,given that they seem intent on persuading them to go away.
Which made me think, there's been a trend over recent years of tech CEO's behaving in ways that are only logically explained by the idea that they work for a different company to the one whose name appears on their business card. Nokia, Blackberry, HTC, HP and so on. Given that they can't even fix Windows 8 properly, nor make the half baked fix easy to install, this tends to suggest to me that Ballmer falls into the "working for the enemy" category.. If Google aren't paying him, shouldn't they at least donate a suitable sum to a charity of his choosing?
Weird, the best hackers (in the noble sense of the word) I know run Mac OS X ... I run Linux, so no fanboyism on my part - don't get me wrong ... At the company I work for, you choose your hw/OS - in fact, you have a budget. Sad thing is, though, that since we only work with big businesses and want to keep hardware consistent, if you choose Linux, you pay the Windows tax ...
"... the arseholes could have made our lives easier by offering it through Windows Update."
I don't have an account set up with the App Store. The PC is logged in as a default user for anyone to use (its sitting under the TV as a media server (yes I know you can get cheaper ones, but I had my reasons)) so I don't want to tie it to my hotmail account. Guess I'll have to make a new generic account to access the appstore and nothing else.
> Which made me think, there's been a trend over recent years of tech CEO's behaving
> in ways that are only logically explained by the idea that they work for a different
> company to the one whose name appears on their business card.
In this case, it could also be explained as a company whose primary concern is for what's good for it (but not so much for their customers). If they believe they can force their customers to go along, then that's all they seem to care about.
Same deal with Adobe lately...
" millions of downloads of this size"
In a sane world, such things would be cached by a proxy server, either your own or your ISP's.
As far as I know, MS updates are usually downloaded through fairly stable http URLs, perhaps because someone at MS intended them to be easily cached. I believe http proxies sort of went out of fashion when the "web designers" discovered the delights of customising every bleedin' page to the precise user it was being sent to. Perhaps we live in the world we deserve.
"As far as I know, MS updates are usually downloaded through fairly stable http URLs, perhaps because someone at MS intended them to be easily cached."
The URLs are consistent, but the download is done with ranged chunks which throws various tools into the works. And at 3.5GB, it's likely to include some pretty big files that may exceed the maximum sizes for caching in many common setups.
I'm not looking forward to this at work - computer repair shop. We may have a 200GB monthly limit we only use about 20GB of, but 3.5GB over ~18mbps means a 30 minute download IF things go fast as they can... And during that 30 minutes, no one else can use the internet because the download is chewing it all up. Rinse and repeat for the 10 or so regular customers with Windows 8, and we've basically got ourselves a whole lost work day as far as internet access goes.
Yeah, because somewhere (a business I'm guessing) that is operating FIFTY Windows 8 machines behind it is going to have a limited broadband connection.
And even if they did, 175GB is less than the 300GB per month limit which BT's "unlimited" CONSUMER service had ages ago, and everyone got their knickers twisted over.
If you are running your business properly your data usage will be well matched to your data plan. So a sudden boost to your data usage will put you outside the plan parameters. It will probably only cost you money not cut off service, but it is still something that MS should have made avoidable. They aren't being good stewards of the internet. But that's nothing new. And while it is true that Gates showed some failures to appreciate small business models ("hard disk space is practically free") it seems to have jumped a magnitude since he left.
Actually, the size of the update can be an issue to businesses as many broadband packages have relatively low caps. For some of my clients it will be an issue depending on which branch office people decide to drop into to do the update (they have used ADSL for branch offices/drop in centres which normally have only a few users). Get a bunch at the wrong office in the same billing month and ...
Oh and remember the update itself is 3.5GB, the data cost is more likely to be 5GB - so for many home users on BT's entry level 10GB pcm service this could be a problem - hence why many will go into the office...
I've never been one to run with the cool crowd. When I find I'm with them I always triple check my assumptions to make sure I haven't done anything wrong.
I'd like to like Windows 8. People upgrading OS systems makes me money, first on the OS upgrade, then on the Apps upgrades that come afterward. But when I recommend something, it's MY reputation on the line. Windows 8 is crap. Windows 8.1 is polished crap, perhaps with a bit of new car scent mixed in. Rolling around in it won't be any better for you than if it wasn't polished and perfumed. Saying anything else will just cost me credibility.
Go here: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/upgrade-product-key-only
1- Download the setup programs for both 8 and 8.1.
2- Run the setup for 8, put in your valid product key and click next.
3- As soon as it starts downloading the full Windows 8 setup files, quit the installer.
4- Run the 8.1 setup (it might error out the first time, just run it again) and it'll download 8.1.
5- Once it's downloaded, save out an ISO or write it to a USB flash drive.
6- Search for a MSDN 8.1 product key to install 8.1.
7- After install, activate it with your legit product key.
8- Profit
Start Menu!?!?! I have upgraded. what they call a start menu is just a link that takes you to Metro (or whatever they call it)
If this is a joke, I am not laughing.... I use the windows key for that function.
Here's a tip:
On your task bar right click -- Tool bars -- New Tool bar
select the start menu folder located in programdata\windows\start menu
done like dinner and no 3rd party app required.
"what they call a start menu is just a link that takes you to Metro (or whatever they call it)"
They didn't call it start-menu but start-button.
MSFT restored the start-button which is ridiculous because going to the outer left o/t screen also showed that metro-button.
They don't want to restore the start-MENU. Which is actually what people want. This is just a simple mis-communication between "custormers" and Microsoft. People ask for MENU, Balmer gives us BUTTON.
You wonder how on earth those morons became so rich?
Your tip is very welcome, thanks.
Upgrages on top of upgrades on top of .....
Then there is the personal and SME users. 3.5Gb per machine to download. Yet they could have used the other method for all saving a lot of internet bandwith.
Now just how many shares in the US Internet Companies do Microsoft have?
Come of Redmond sort your act out and don't make the famil and SME's suffer because you can't sort out your lefthand from the other one...
I've just downloaded my Windows 8.1 - boy what an effort! I live in a rural town only 60km from Melbourne in Australia where the new federal government has canned FTTP and is going with FTTN (along with other wireless technologies). This download update has taken a whopping 10 hours to get the full 3.5G of data onto my computer. Admittedly, my house should have been located closer to the exchange. How silly of me to purchase a place that is 5km from the exchange. Perhaps I should move to Korea where they have better access to the Internet than most places.
It's seemed appropriate that in the bottom right hand corner of the original page for putting up this post, there was a picture of the Federal Communications Minister for Australia - Malcom Turnbull, along with the caption "Cabinet to be targeted with FTTP ads".
For those lucky enough to have been in areas where the previous governments FTTP rollout occurred, this download would have been a mere "blip" (what do mean it will take 15 minutes to download the update - I WANT IT STARTED NOW!) in their download schedule. At least you are warned once the update has started that your PC will restart several times and that it might "take a while". Certainly in my case, a while was a whole LOT shorter than the download time! It took 30 minutes (5% of the download time), along with 3 reboots, on an Intel i7-3440K 16G RAM machine. After the third reboot I was politely informed that windows was "Setting up a few more things" - how many more "things" are there other than devices and the PC itself? Oh maybe they mean the registry - that must be it. One never ceases to wonder.
As for having to download it multiple times for multiple devices, Microsoft really needs to rethink this dastardly download method. Gone are the days of a friendly neighbour or family member who has fast Internet access downloading it for others to share! Mind you, they are taking a leaf out of Apple's iDevice book in this regard, what with it's hefty 1G+ download for iOS 7 (BTW - I'm STILL running my iPad 2 on iOS 5, there's been no imperative to update as I don't have any Apps that rely on it).
As an M$ partner, fortunately I only needed to download it once for my 5 computers. Imagine how long it would have taken if I had to do them all? Imagine what will happen when I visit one of my small business clients and say "The update for Windows 8.1 is available for you to download, but don't expect it to install anytime soon. I know roughly how far from the exchange you are and it could take anywhere up to 12 hours to download and that's if you leave the machine running all night! Then of course you'll have to do it again on every machine in your office. Oh, by the way, how much is the download limit from your ISP? That little huh! Better stagger it over a few weeks to avoid a hefty financial penalty for downloading so much." Having said that, that's if you're lucky to HAVE a reliable ADSL2 connection! With the aging infrastructure (and don't I know it) there might be a break in the line which is not known about and slow the Internet down even more.
I also know peolpe with slow satellite connections (so much for wireless being heralded as the panacea for a replacement for FTTP) where it will take a couple of days for the download to complete, so I don't think they'll be updating any time soon.
Any way, that's my 2 cents worth.
Happy updating...
Probably would be of no use. I suspect that, even if you did manage to intercept the download and set it aside before the install kicks in, you wouldn't find an executable to launch, maybe not even an msi file.
This is coming through the store, not Windows Update. As such, I suspect that Microsoft deliberately made everything so that it could only be auto-launched from some process in Windows 8 that knows where to get the data. That would mean that you have to download in order for the process to kick in.
Remember : Microsoft is no longer concerned with service to the public, only to its customers. You and I are NOT Microsot customers, the Fortune 500 companies are. We're just the chaff on the side that have next to no choice on what OS we buy our computers with.
"why don't you download it once, burn it to a DVD"
I imagine that the thing you download is a small app that then examines your system and pulls the other 3.5GB down during execution. Burning the small app to a CD doesn't help, the locations of the other bits would have to be sniffed or reverse engineered, and the resulting pile of poo would probably only work properly for the exact configuration of the machine you started on.
You are a complete fool to make a post about broadband in Australia and downloading windows 8.1 You left a few things out as someone of your lack of objectivity would.
Firstly the last pathetic Government of Australia wanted to spend upwards of $60 Billion to achieve your precious FTTP.
Secondly, Their roll out was so good it had a take up of 10000 out of a total of 200k connections which took 4
Years to do with over 13 million still to do.
Thirdly, wireless broadband is the future and on the basis of downloads of up to 40mps in parts of Australia is very much the present in part. Mind you 25mps is what the previous Government's broadband was slated to be in its first 3 years of full operation.
I could go on but I think those interested would get the point.
Stuart 24, you are a toss! Get over the fact your beloved lefty Labor mates lost the election so much so only 34% of Australians(Tossers like you) voted for them.
"wireless broadband is the future"
Wireless is not the future for any wide-area networks. The shared medium is not a problem for PANs and household LANs, but on any larger scale the shared medium is a bottleneck. That's the great thing about cables. You get your own private 1D universe to propogate EM waves down. If you want double the bandwidth, laying a new cable is a whole lot easier than constructing a parallel universe.
"Thirdly, wireless broadband is the future and on the basis of downloads of up to 40mps in parts of Australia is very much the present in part. Mind you 25mps is what the previous Government's broadband was slated to be in its first 3 years of full operation."
Whatever revelatory substance it is that they put in Alan Jones' coffee at the 2GB studios, apparently it is being served at your local cafe too.
If you take a second to look at your preferred NBN implementer's choice of technology, as released in the Coalition's NBN policy in April 2013, you will find that there is absolutely no mention of magic wireless that will replace wired deployments in metro areas. Ze-ro mention of magical unicorn+rainbow radio technology to serve city users, just 4G/LTE for rural areas, with lower contention ratios than are designed for city 4G deployments. That is because 4G/LTE, like all the wireless broadband technologies that came before, is subject to the laws of physics, which kind of tie you down to using a crapton of radio spectrum if you want to serve a lot of concurrent users in a given area.
This is why mobile telcos are actually clamping down hard on download limits. Telstra's rate card: http://www.telstra.com.au/broadband/mobile-broadband/plans/ - shows a breathtaking $95/mo for 15GB. But everyone knows *they're* a rip-off, [that was guaranteed by the monopoly status they inherited when the Coalition privatised them, cough]... so surely overseas it's all roses and endless video streaming over 4G? Okay, here's what Singtel has to offer for it's 4G mobile PC-oriented broadband plans:
http://info.singtel.com/business/products-and-services/internet/broadband-laptops-and-tablets
Mmmm, AUD$34 for 10GB of download, with excess data at ~ AUD$9/GB. That's the future, right there! (Assuming you meant the future to be just expensive, instead of very expensive.)
4G will work really well for the things businesspeople want to do when they're on the road. It will not be a magical replacement for wired broadband in metro areas. Nor will whatever follows it. Wired deployments have their own contention issues, but they actually exist in the other direction - there is much more total potential downstream bandwidth than you can afford to carry/switch upstream. But if the business case emerges, you can upgrade the backhaul or switching gear on your wired deployment after the fact; whereas 4G radio technology will stay pretty much set in stone - for a certain amount of spectrum, you'll get a fixed Gbit/sec of total usable bandwidth.
Meanwhile, over in the 2GB part of the collective delusion/bile tank that is Australian commercial talkback radio, Alan Jones will politely refrain from calling his Coalition pals idiots for not heeding the same sage advice about magic radios being the future of broadband that the Labor hacks were so stupid to ignore. Funny about that.
"This download update has taken a whopping 10 hours to get the full 3.5G of data onto my computer. "
Yeah sometimes I too wonder if this really is 2013? As sometimes sending text-messages by pigeons is faster then the proclaimed 3G networks that telco's advertise so vigorously :-)
Instead of making 3G globally available in EVERY corner o/t outback or rural regions they're already advertising this fucking 4G which is only available for 3 or 5 blocks in the city!
I hate them! Hate them all!
Is MSFT actively trying to irritate its users? In the YAC household we have three computers, so (should I feel the urge, which I don't, especially as two are Macs) to update them all I would have to download an incredible 10.5GB of updates. This will stretch the very limits of "unlimited" broadband for many poor souls who want to upgrade.
What's so hard about one iso, or other image that could be burned to DVD/thumbdrive/whatever.
Perhaps it's a slap for daring to say "actually, we don't like this new fangled Metro stuff all that much."
Sure you can. We adjust ours to cache things of up to 1GB since often we download the same updates etc many many times. Its nice when you look at your reports and see you had like 50GB of traffic in a day and only like 30-40% was not from cache.
Also you can use squid with one nic long as it can handle the traffic no need to have two or more if you dont need it.
"Is MSFT actively trying to irritate its users?"
You're probably one of several zillion users of any OS or software these days who are asking this question about pretty much every OS or software vendor.
My friends and I used to joke about this several years ago, but nowadays I'm pretty much firmly convinced that yes, Microsoft, Adobe, et. al are actively engaged in a competition to see who can be the biggest pain in the ass to their customers.
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> 10.5GB, woo, yeah that's a lot in 2013. </sarcasm>
Way to miss the point there.
On a reasonably performing ADSL2 connection, that is 4 hours. Surely it would have been more efficient to torrent the whole ISO, even if all updates had to download a small app first to check some md5 hashes.
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You know, I constantly see USAsians acting as if the USA was the whole world. But it's most unusual to see a Brit with the same parochial attitude.
There are a lot of places, and an overwhelming majority of the world's PC users, who are not in the US, UK or South Korea, and who have to get by with vastly slower download rates and teensy monthly caps. For example, I couldn't download even a single install of the update within my cap, and the best download speed I've ever had at home was 200MB/s, and a quarter that is more common.
I really can't understand why you're so determined to claim this is not a big deal, when clearly
1) It is a big deal
2) It could so easily be alleviated by Microsoft not being such big dicks.
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Yes, it was a typo. And if you read again, you'll see that, as I usually get around 50KB/s, it would take me 20 hours. And if both I and my housemate want to update our machines on our shared line, that's 40 hours. And as I only have a 3GB/m cap, I'm screwed. And yes, this is a "last-decade" connection, but that's also all I can get in my country (which is not the US/UK/SK). And 99% of users are not single-PC-only users in the US/UK/SK.
I'm sorry, but your feigned lack of comprehension skills has just landed you firmly in the shill/troll camp, as far as I'm concerned.
"Sure, Microsoft could have maybe made the update smaller, say down to maybe 1.5GB, "
COULD? How long have these apes been in the business? An upgrade should be no more 640KB!
Anyway if S. Elop gets at the helm of MSFT than it won't last for more than 2 or 3 years. So there's plenty of time to get familiar with say Ubuntu, Slackware, Chrome OS or perhaps even firefox OS.
So why upgrade? Soon it'll be all over anyway.
truth be told, even in the US once you get outside of the major metropolitan areas you are likely to see consumers with very slow connections. I know I'm fortunate in that respect because I have at least three major competitors who offer high speed broadband in my region. There are places where your best option is wireless 3G, even for your desktop.
I am in a major metro area (Park Slope, Brooklyn, NY) where somehow Verizon have thus far refused to install FIOS. I had ADSL until recently, which is not remotely broadband. I had originally installed it to do remote server maintenance. I replaced it with wireless from CLEAR. I did not want to go with my cable TV provider because I can't afford to be without internet for a week or two, waiting for the cable guy.
The wireless is four times faster than the ADSL, and only $10 a month more. Still, a good-sized download can take a while. We are currently all Mac here. An iPad update can take from 20 minutes to an hour, depending on what else is running, of course. It works best if I turn off the ATT connection and just use my wireless LAN connected to CLEAR.
Heh, there is always someone oblivious to the whole world except for his immediate surroundings, who chooses to measure everything by a standard he is used to. Time to wake up - most of the world does not have high limit broadband on every corner. The world means more then just US/UK ;)
quote: "Heh, there is always someone oblivious to the whole world except for his immediate surroundings, who chooses to measure everything by a standard he is used to. Time to wake up - most of the world does not have high limit broadband on every corner. The world means more then just US/UK ;)"
I spot a business opportunity there; check which carriers in your area can actually do a business class connection (uncontended, high / unlimited bandwidth) and see if there is a business case for getting one for a month or 2 and selling time for people to use it to update their PCs. I'm sure you'll find some consumers (and even a proportion of SMEs) that would cough up to use someone else's bandwidth to do their updates ;)
You could say Microsoft are just trying to annoy their customers, but it would appear that they are simultaneously creating opportunities for local business at the same time... probably unintentional, but you take 'em where you get 'em IMO :)
10.5GB, woo, yeah that's a lot in 2013. </sarcasm>
Living in Italy, my family wanted to see 'Breaking Bad, so I instigated the £40 'standard definition' download of the UK iTunes season-special value-pack. I did this at work at a quiet time, and around 5 mins later my 70 gigs was downloaded - thats seventy gigatubes just for a TV show - admittedly a 5 year wrap-up! [71,403,564,932 bytes (71.4 GB on disk) for 230 items]
If I'd tried that in my rural Italian hamlet - I think I'd still be halfway through episode one, so I tend to agree with the sarcastic commentard about volumes of data in 2013 - but the take away value point is that we'd all like 'fibre to the home' please, along with cheaper energy, if you politicos all want to be re-elected next time
Yep same problem, I have tried from both work and from home, the downloads interupts after a certain amount of time and it is impossible to continue without the download corrupting.
Have tried with IE and with Chrome, no difference, same problem. I have also tried different languages French and English and also 32bit and 64bit , no differencc
The most that I have managed so far is 1.76 Gb.... download interupts, continue download...... download finishes but each time it finishes incomplete...
MS servers must be in a semi panic state.......
....
"The most that I have managed so far is 1.76 Gb.... download interupts, continue download...... download finishes but each time it finishes incomplete..."
Judgement upon those rushing to download the latest Windows crud. I suspect Richard Dawkins might struggle with a better scientific explanation.
I am not sure that it would be Richard Dawkins that talked about judgement from a higher power......n'est-ce pas.
I will wait to try it before proclaiming that it is crud.... ( Ok I already have a good idea but I will wait and try it all the same).
I want to see how much I control the Enterprise version really gives over TIFKAM. W8 runs on relatively small machines so I am interested in the system but I am not overly hot about TIFKAM and the Store.
I am at the stage where upgrading users means moving to W7 or W8, W9 will be too far away before refresh comes up. I know and use W7 so it's definately an option but I really would like to see if W8.1 could also be an option..
We can't run linux because of various in-house applications....most of the Oracle owned ones......
Yep. Average transfer speed in Kilobytes on a VDSL Line, and a stack of failed partial files are littering up my disk right now.
Honestly? Don't expect to get it until next week.
Of course if they RELEASED IT TO PARTNERS early, we wouldn't be in this FlusterCluck now.
You don't think they would miss the opertunity to force users into using their Windows store do you?
They don't give a shit about people having extra 3.5GB downloads because as with the rest of Win 8 it is all about what Microsoft wants users to do not what users want users to do.
There are still households running with 2 gb limit broadband... and bought a new laptop for their son or daughter last Xmas... I cry for them when heir downloads get interrupted twice or more and then finally they get updated.. the cost 10p per mb with BT... face palm...
Not to mention, when reinstall time comes round in 2-3 years time the only option for an "original 8" consumer machine will be to restore to ex-factory Win8, then download the 3.5GB all over again, then apply the other boatload of patches that will have been issued between now and then.
Whereas with prior Microsoft OSes, one could generally reinstall a consumer machine from OEM media incorporating the latest service packs, as long as it was for the same SKU (XP) - even more flexibility with 7.
As for me, after "upgrading" to Windows 8 in Feb, I added dual-boot into Linux Mint because some hardware did not have drivers for Win8. Although that was supposed to be for occasional use, Linux has become my everyday OS and I haven't booted into Windows for 6 months.
"Not to mention, when reinstall time comes round in 2-3 years time the only option for an "original 8" consumer machine will be to restore to ex-factory Win8, then download the 3.5GB all over again, then apply the other boatload of patches that will have been issued between now and then."
Well, if MS start producing a point release every 6 months, in two years time you'll either have just the latest 3.5GB to download or you'll have five separate 3.5GB downloads to pull in succession. The really scary thing is, right now I'm not sure that my second scenario is beyond the realms of possibility. Microsoft currently *are* that stupid. Unless Ballmer's replacement has a clue, it may not be practical to re-install Windows in years to come.
"Not to mention, when reinstall time comes round in 2-3 years time the only option for an "original 8" consumer machine will be to restore to ex-factory Win8, then download the 3.5GB all over again, then apply the other boatload of patches that will have been issued between now and then."
... and yet they wonder why people keep using Windows XP?
Translates as 'fuck you, SMBs who can't afford to throw cash at enterprise licensing solutions'.
Gobsmacking arrogance from Microsoft. I havea couple of sites with 25-50 win8 machines each, they'll take weeks to update rather than a few days tops if I could do ten at a time with a USB installer.
Bastards.
I have read through the new features (or old in the case of the start button) that come with 8.1 and can't really see why the upgrade is so big. Is there some sort of HD tutorial video embedded in the update or are the Microsoft programmers just becoming extremely lazy and creating very bloated code?
The entire XP OS fit onto a single CD yet now just to get a few enhancements you have to download 3.5GB and on every PC if you own more than one.
"Just look at the 32gb Surface tablets which only gives the end user 16gb of storage because the other 16gb is hogged by the OS!"
Ugh, that's horrendous! What a waste, as it's an OS they should give us details of how that is divided up. After all, it's a fecking OPERATING SYSTEM! It seems like over engineered rocket science has been used to run a golf cart. I'm guessing the Surface in question is the 'pro'?
I remember when Windows 3.1 came on 3.5" diskettes. A 3.5Gb PATCH is quite insane and there needs to be far more negative feedback on this to MS, but customers just accept anything with a slight shrug these days, then shuffle onwards to the next burger and fries, whilst slurping noisily on a coke.
Epic: http://gizmodo.com/5019516/classic-clips-bill-gates-chews-out-microsoft-over-xp
Seriously, the other day I was chatting with someone who was using citrix and had a Java version on it from early 2010 ... I did not dare ask what the version of the acrobat plugin was, but that is just asking for trouble ... when I now see what you poor souls have to endure to keep your system up-to-date, I cannot withhold my smile.
Using Windows? Deserve all you get ... sorry. Absolutely no empathy, get your act together. It has been time to switch to Linux since Windows XP first came out, with Vista it was long overdue, needless to say that with Windows 8, you are beyond help.
2 reboots to install a printer driver, come on guyz, how fucked up is that ? Why do I have to unplug the USB device to install it ???? Windows is for idiots.
So, would all those who back the crooks in Redmond please leave the IT industry, you are ridiculously making fools out of yourselves. Cleaner is a job for you.
Don't get me started on browser search provider and home page hijacking or toolbar hell ... I mean, seriously, even Java Runtime Environment on Windows is a trojan.
A piece of software that by default installs another, unrelated, piece of software by default is a trojan, by my standards at least.
Honestly, you get all you deserve....
Ha, what? I've upgraded Ubuntu machines from v7 all the way to 12.04 with nary a blink. In fact an upgrade fixed a broken command line only box. I just went from from 13.04 to 13.10 in about an 90 minutes.
Linux may not be a panacea but it's much better in terms of upgrades and package management.
"who was using citrix and had a Java version on it from early 2010 ... I did not dare ask what the version of the acrobat plugin was, but that is just asking for trouble "
No it isn't. If that machine isn't internet-connected? Not to mention that not EVERY computer gets hacked. Sometimes a properly configured firewall and antivirus solution is enough. Especially for home-users.
Companies should learn that change for sake of it isn't appreciated by most folks!
"So, would all those who back the crooks in Redmond please leave the IT industry, you are ridiculously making fools out of yourselves. Cleaner is a job for you."
Yeah, yet those crooks are amongst the richest people on this planet. Unfortunately I think that we need more than just Linux to change this.
It is possible to perform this upgrade, while connected to the internet, without creating an online account. They did a good job of hiding that fact, however.
The trick is to do it like this:
When it asks you for your current local account password, enter it.
Next it takes you to a screen where you can enter your Live account info to replace that account. Instead, look at the bottom, where it says "Don't have an account? Create one." Click on "Create one."
This takes you to a new page with a bunch of fields for your info on the new account. DON'T WASTE TIME TYPING ANYTHING HERE. Instead, scroll to the bottom again. There is another small link, which says "Continue using my existing account."
Click "Continue using my existing account" to avoid creating an online account. The setup will proceed.
(Notes: To the best of my knowledge, there's no way around the requirement to create one of those accounts before you install any "apps" from the windows store, so if you care about that may as well go ahead and create one.
Also, everything, even when it's in quotes, is typed from memory, since I already completed this process, so it's possible some of the titles are paraphrased or I'm forgetting about an "OK" screen, or something.)
Another wonderful service from your friendly desktop dictator.
Really, it's for your own good !
It's useless to resist anyway, we've included a whole barn door for the NSA in the update you just installed, so your profile is online whether you want it to be or not.
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Haha, good one. I actually don't like Windows 8 that much myself, I just think you're all massively overblowing this - "but but but, what if a user has a thousand brand new Windows 8 machines, running off a 2400 baud modem, can't get the machines to decent internet, and hasn't got an email address to create an account on the store anyway?"
Well, then sure, no nice start button for them.
@ Timmay
Eat **** and die, dickhead.
Some people don't have a choice, so quit being such a fucking troll. And maybe if you went out and got a JOB instead of trolling teh interwebbs, you could afford a new PC instead of Grannies hand-me-down computer from a generation ago that can run modern games.
I used to be in much the same situation as the OP until I finally got ADSL some years ago. My choices then were dial-suck or sat broadband, which was very expensive and also seriously data capped.
"My internet provider (Bell Canada) charges $45 for 3 Gb, $55 from 3 to 5Gb and $70 over 5 Gb to a monthly maximum of to 10Gb ."
Try Teksavvy. I pay $36.22 per month including HST for 300GB on a 6Mb/s DSL line and I can never use it all. I see they have added another option: 7 Mbps for onlly $24.99/month. I'll have to give them a call tomorrow.
American and Canadians are getting ripped clean off for telecoms!
I pay 400 SEK (about 30$) for 30 Mbit/s, flat rate. Watching "Breaking Bad" season 5 and a few movies probably took about 140 GB this month. That is with Telia. The dumbest & fattest of all the Swedish telecom businesses - but also the only one to sell decent band with where I live.
@Pascal - Or you could realise that it's vanishingly unusual to post something on a forum when there isn't a problem. We've had complaints about Windows 8 since it was released, in fact before it was released, and now complaints about Windows 8.1, many of which just seem like an excuse to complain about MS. It's has become so very boring for me and quite a few people that I know and work with who have no particular offence at Win 8. It's occasionally nice in the general complaints to have someone who pops up and likes it or isn't having a problem.
Well, I'm downloading it now. There is a ~2.5GB tmp file in a subdirectory of my C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download\ directory so I think that is it. I will try to grab it intact and hopefully be able to use it over. I'm not saying it may be straightforward--maybe starting the v8.1 download on an unpatched machine, pausing it, booting the system to Linux, replacing the just-started download with the full download, and then rebooting Win8. The idea is that on a download restart or similar, Win8 will probably do something to first verify how much has been downloaded, so it will magically see that the whole file arrived. Anyway, just a thought, if it is successful, I'll report back here. But surely somebody will figure this out. It is a bit silly to be downloading such a huge wad for each and every machine.
So I watching the Win81 download bar creep along while keeping an eye on the ~2.5GB tmp file in a subdirectory of C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download\. But while the progress bar was about half way along, I glanced away, and when I turned back it said "Installing". Bugger, the ~2.5GB tmp file disappeared. However, a hidden "$Windows.~BT" directory appeared in the root of the C: drive, and it has boot and efi directories, and bootmgr and bootmgr.efi and setup.exe. So essentially the contents of a DVD. Trying to capture it!
I feel dirty saying this but as a hater of Windows H8 I've actually become used to the dirty Start screen. I don't use it or any apps but the speed with which it finds installed programs comes close to that of my favourite launcher, Launchy. The downside is that I still have to take my hands off the keyboard if I'm trying to change a setting in Control Panel.
On my old laptop Windows H8 noticeably slowed it down to the point that even after I doubled the RAM (2GB to 4GB) it crawls along a lot more than it ever did under Windows 7 with 2GB. With the new laptop I got recently it's a lot faster but given that it's quite a high spec I'd be very surprised if it was anything less. It's sad that the biggest benefit of a new system now feels like getting the old speed back. I'll be very interested to see how fast it is when I throw on a Linux distro later.
It will finish and then proceed to give you 15 minutes before it forcibly restarts with no way to postpone that restart. After the restart it took around 5 - 10 minutes to finish before it finally let me use the computer. I noticed that I also have a previously banished IE icon back on my taskbar. Rest assured that I will be removing that piece of crap as soon as I finish clicking Submit.
I think Microsoft is pushing The Cloud to YOU: The 3 GB is an encrypted disk image that will be added to The Cloud whenever your computer connects to the internet, the 500 MB is the code for the new start button (400 MB of that will be "ressources" a.k.a graphics).
It's not about customer loyalty or slow connections, it's about Microsoft wanting to get every penny they can for their product. They are probably tired of people using the same key for all of their OS install needs. This way they can monitor and control the upgrade process for each and every computer. I don't like it, but it makes the most sense.
It overwrites it with the 'Live' account setting that you *HAVE* to put in. After 3+ hours of waiting for it to install, I've spent a further 2 trying to undo the mess caused by the upgrade renaming my main login/password with something completely different.
I might have missed something but it seemed like a one way street at that particular point and there were no warnings that my original account would be renamed
Anyone tried this with a domain based login account yet? What's the process there? Does it F**K that up too?
We are Microsoft, prepare to be assimilated, resistance is futile!
I just love it! And even more I love the fact that none of my machines is on Windows 8...
The amount of abuse that Microsoft users seem to tolerate is really amazing!
Installed it today on a computer hooked to a domain today, It took around 5 hours to download and install.
It would not let me install it logged on as the administrator or user account. I had to log on to the local account to download and install it. After that it installed fine and seemed to keep all the account info for the various users. Only 5 more machines to go
It forced me to switch to a hotmail/microsoft account login, rather than a machine one. I did the machine one because I have a desktop and laptop running Win 8 and if I use the Microsoft account, it annoyingly copies my settings from one to the other (which is not useful since I swap mouse buttons on my desktop but not laptop with trackpad).
Good news is I could switch back to local account after the upgrade.
Other annoyance is that the font on desktop icons keeps adding dropshadow, even though I have a checkbox in the performance settings somewhere to turn it off. Switching the desktop item sizing to 125%, logging out and in, back to 100% and logging out and in again fixes it (so I get back to black text it light coloured desktop, rather than white with dropshadow). But definitely a bug and finding the setting is as annoying as hell, because it's not with the customize desktop displace where you think it should be.
Cant help wonder if Microsoft will compensate me for data downloaded thrice instead of the once, after all traffic costs in Australia and I'm on a quota plan, in fact this download alone over three devices could account for 18% of my monthly allocation instead of the 6% for getting it once.
Are you guys masochists? Why are you submitting to this insulting nonsense.
You know how I update from Xubuntu 12.04 to 12.10? I click a button a go to work again. I can also avoid the buttonclicking if I'm really busy and do this on 500 machines at the same time, with one of them as a cache server. And no one loses a minute of worktime or stresspoints.
Totally ridiculous. Microsoft is holding back the human race and deserves to die.
8.1 downloaded (and downloaded and downloaded) and Installed fine. Then wifi would not work more than the first connection to anything. Had to uninstall the intel wifi device so it could reinstall during a reboot. Then bitdefender firewall blocked everything. so now on windows firewall. Then 56 MB of updates immediately found included a new wifi driver. during install it forces you to use your microsoft account - and transports all of that info (password, alias name) onto the PC whether or not you want it. Linux is getting better every day.
In fairness, if I were moving my company's products to a rapid release cycle, I'd probably make the first release fairly minor in terms of product changes, I wouldn't charge, and I'd use it mostly as a test of the rapid release process (both internally, in terms of build, and externally, in terms of the customer's upgrade experience).
Expect MS to say in the next few weeks how much they've "learned" from the "hugely successful" 8.1 roll-out.
Expect the next one to contain actual new features, but to cost money.
Expect the customer upgrade experience to still suck.
Blah, the bugger was being pesky, and I could see the quantity of files and their total size was changing as the install proceeded. So for the sake of science, I pulled the plug--ouch. Now I'm under a Linux LiveBoot environment, and copying some ~21,000 files that total about 6.3GB from the hidden $Windows.~BT directory. I believe this is more than the installation DVD contents itself--it includes all the temp/work files that were created in that directory as the installation was proceeding (there's a telling NewOS directory). But theoretically, I should be able to weed through the junk, and keep just the necessary files to hopefully make a useful Win81 DVD. Who knows if it will actually work, but if it does, I'll let you know.
It did finish downloading over night, sitting at the need to reboot screen in the morning when I checked.
Reboot...
Reboot again...
Reboot yet again...
It's been about 20 minutes time for work.
Get home and it's gone to sleep just after I went to work. It's still setting up a few more things.
Reboot again.
Chugging away for some time. "HI" oh piss off and boot already.
Oh it wants to confirm my account by sending me an email that I can't check without another device, good thing I have a real computer, or my phone to check.
Use express settings? Don't think so!
Send information to Microsoft... WTF! People complain about Google! NO, NO, NO,NO...
Ok it's done. Not counting the download the install took about 40 minutes.
So make sure your not in a rush when you start the update.
The store is different. Everything is bigger to make it look like there is more stuff. Not much organization, lots of scrolling.
Over all there is not much new for the Surface, most of the changes are more useful on a PC.
No need to rush the update, it's not a big deal at all unless I've missed some cool new feature.
So not going to change the name, it remains MrHanky.
I see the day coming when the big software houses wonder what happened to their profits because they thought everybody has unlimited bandwidth.
It seems everyone but them knows that "unlimited" is not really "unlimited".
And I, for one, do NOT want to go back to the command and control model of computing.
Actually there appears to be an invisible folder on your root C: named $Windows.~BT that looks to have the same structure as the original Windows 8 upgrade disk I had.
I think there is a chance it's usable. It was around 2.4GB just before installation started and that's again around the same size as the W8 upgrade disk.
I didn't bother trying since I wanted to do a fresh install I reinstalled Windows 8 fresh then just used the normal upgrade route. I only have one laptop using W8.
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WARNING TO POTENTIAL UPGRADERS:
One thing I noticed is if you previously had a local only profile it forces you to convert to a live account when it upgrades. It tries to transfer everything to the new profile but it makes a poor job of it. It reset all of my My Docs and Pictures folders etc. (I had them in different locations due to having a small SSD but large storage drives).
I dont mind using the live account so much because I have a Win Phone and use Skydrive. but I know some of you out there want to stay local so watch out!
On the plus side I actually Like the small metro changes they made. I removed my Start8 and Decor8 mods, dont feel like I need the original start menu anymore.
So after the upgrade finishes, and you are logging in for the first time, it asks you if you are user so-and-so. Of course, you are, so you acknowledge this, and then the system automatically shuttles you to log in to the system via your Microsoft account. Well, I don't have one, and I don't really want one. But it almost seems as if there is no way around this--it wants you to create an account on the fly. Well, there is a way around this. I went back to the screen where it asked if I was user so-and-so, and I told it no. Seconds later, I got to the regular login prompt for user so-and-so, logged in with my regular password, and yee-haw, was at the desktop. So the point is you do not have to make a Microsoft account to log in, although they try really, really hard to convince you that you do.
Once again, the semantic difference between a software "upgrade" and "just a newer version" rears its ugly head. I've yet to discover the rationale behind why anyone would decide to go through this sort of grief just to have the biggest numbered version available. Does the newer version guarantee to save more time in speed, safety, or error-free operation than the time it takes to install? Or is basically cosmetic, and if so, what is the incentive? There'll be an even bigger number available in a couple months.
In order to use Windows 8.1's "remove everything and reinstall windows" feature you actually need to "insert media" such as the installation disk. Which means Microsoft are going to need to provide the ISO or something so that it can be burnt to a disk or flash drive, otherwise how else are we going to use that feature? Never? Do we have to install Windows 8 then 8.1 every time when requiring a fresh install of the os e.g. if something was to go wrong and make the os slow/unusable?
"The ISO I got from Technet works like a charm."
It's probably secretly marked as the technet version and so will stop working next year when your licence to use it expires. Similarly, the volume licensing ISO is probably marked so that it doesn't accept non-VL product activation keys.
I mean, if both of these things *weren't* true then Microsoft really couldn't say "there's no ISO and never will be".
I downloaded the patch last night in HK, took around 30 minutes which is comparatively slow on a 200mbit line. I found it somewhat hard to find the install link initially as i was using the regular Win7 type desktop. Installed in another 30. I have a reasonably fast Ivy Bridge I5 with an SSD, It seems similar to 8 but I use the start8 application which makes it resemble Win7.
Got home, started desktop, tethered nexus 5 phone with three SIM, started download, took dogs for a long walk, popped into shop on way home, about 2 hours after I left returned and download complete and going throught checks etc, 2 and a half hours after start was rebooted and up and running, seems a bit quicker etc, still need to test things but was painless over mobile broadband to update.
Spent rest of evening watching Netflix via tethered phone. Thanks 3 for the unlimited data at good speeds so I don't have to pay £30 a month for landline and broadband......
Honestly guys - just install Xubuntu. It will take about 30 mins and all future updates are free and easy. Also, tens of thousands of apps are available free from the Ubuntu Software Centre.
The problem is you will have a clean, easy-to-use desktop which just sits and waits. You can run apps and do things - but the whole job of dealing with the OS will be gone - so you will be bored!
The good news is that once you've weaned yourself off the 'Dealing with Windows problems' addiction you can get on with other stuff - such as Reddit, finding the really cool sites, developing for Android, doing your accounts, etc etc etc.
It's amazing that you appear to be so utterly incompetent. I never have to 'deal with Windows problems'. I install Windows, and it runs regular updates whilst I'm asleep at night. I can easily use alternative drives for my data transparently, and I never once have to see a command line. Oh, and my applications all work - unless I deliberately go out of my way to install beta drivers/versions/applications.
My drivers all auto-update as well. It keeps my PC performing fantastically.
I can play a vast larger array of games, and there are thousands of applications developed for it. It also has a support base of millions. I can develop in the most advanced programming languages in the world. I can even do my accounts - what an interesting and EXCITING option you presented for using that OS...*snork*.
So instead of sitting there trying to call to the 'guys' like you're everyone's pal, perhaps you should actually try using Windows without trying to make a problem out of it. Every Linux proponent I've ever known in my years upon years upon years always have the same issue. They can install their favourite variant from the array of fractured choices and spend hours fiddling with this and that to get things into the place they want them and get it working right, but then when you watch them install Windows they suddenly sit there and become utterly braindead by choice. I've watched a number of them even start clumsily clacking heavily on the mouse and moving the pointer around the screen like they've never touched a mouse. It's purely down to a 'don't want!' mentality.
A 3.5 GB downloadable update is way too much. Windows XP takes up only about 2 GB of a hard drive and Windows 2000 even less. Getting it form the MS Store is also a further insult added to injury. I will stick with my Macs and Windows 7. Or just add Classic Shell to get your start menu back.
It appears that none of you here like Windows or Microsoft, so why don't you just use something else and shut up. This is all so predictable and incredibly boring. It's equivalent to me moaning about a car when I can get a competitors car that performs better, is safer, more reliable and best of all is free. Would anyone moan about that? No cause they've got better things to do with their lives; they'd just go for the car that was free. I came on here to get some genuine insight on 8.1 and yet again the comments are swamped by the same old MS bashers talking the same old predictable crap. Get a life and grow up.
What the hell is the point in moaning? If you don't like MS just don't use their bloody products.
This may very well be my lat visit to the Reg forums.
It was me, I do have the balls to use my own name. No one made me God, where do I claim that? I'm just giving an honest opinion which I expect will be very unpopular with most readers. This is TERRIBLY boring and so VERY predictable, I'm constantly amazed by anti-MS sentiment when there are plenty of very good alternatives, most of them free. Just use them and stop expending all that energy on moaning about MS, I really don't get it.
Erm, no I said it MAY be my last visit. I could not be called upon to show my real face and back away from such a challenge. It will be the last forum I visit that contains the usual juvenile anti-MS rants though. I can't be the only person that thinks they're repetitive and unoriginal (and downright boring).
I must concede, you are right. These anti-MS rants are boring and predictable. Problem is, MS keeps giving people new reasons to rant!
And aside from aimlessly ranting, some people are actually giving specific arguments as to why this is a bad thing. It's not like everyone's simply screaming "it's from MS, so it must be bad" over and over again.
So how about coming up with actualy arguments as to why the complaints are unjustified, as opposed to just decrying their unoriginality?
For example, you still haven't addressed the issue of Windows being unavoidable in certain circumstances, and thus switching to Linux is not a universal panacea.
Im with you on this one Hans. I bet most of these moaners don't even have Win 8.1. Just see any opportunity to hate MS and say how great Linux is.
Im different, I give everything a fair chance. I have tried many Linux builds. Bodhi was the best in my opinion. But I still had to jump through the most hoops ever to get things working properly. There is no way anyone can say Linux is easier to use than win or Mac.
And then once its running, its ok as a web browser or email machine but what about the rest?
I like to play around with producing music, I like to play games - Linux has an inferior offering compared to Mac / Win. Ok you can use WINE to run those Windows apps but why mess about getting that to work (half the time doesn't work fully) when you can just install the app in Windows where it will work natively?
Anyway, although Im no big fan of Linux you wont catch me commenting to Linux news saying how bad and useless it is.. In fact Linux is great for some things. Its not just the Linux moaners that are boring, the XP moaners are worse. Im sorry, you cant cling onto that ancient OS FOREVER. Get yourself an SSD and some more Ram and upgrade your OS at least to win 7. PLEASE!
I have ardour with a Prodipe keyboard and an AVID Mbox sound card ... tried to install Protools on Windows 7, it complained about some drive label being too long, and the sound card made fuzzy noises (as in guitar distortion) ... tried it on Mac OS X (with case-sensitive file system) and I got the same fuzzy noises ... installing just the driver for the sound card worked fine, though (without pro-tools). I could not get the keyboard to work with anything else than the software provided on the CD on Windows... on Mac OS X it went like a charm ... but as I said, the sound driver was borked.
I contacted Protools about it and after some weeks gave up ... I went through some howto's on the web for Linux & ardour and have not looked back ... it works.
When it comes to games, I totally agree ... I refuse to use wine, too much dicking around ... I tried crossover, doesn't work - no direct3d support and again, I refuse to dick around - I am too old for that ... I am not into computer games, this was for the kids (probably the reason why I lacked motivation to hack it together).
With all respect Linux Mint doesn't compare to Win8, 8.1 or 7.
I gave it a go on my PC, it didnt match the resolution of my monitor (2560x1080) I had to get the command line involved and still its not right. Graphics drivers I had to setup manually messing about with third party drivers (Nvidia Geforce 570). Sound problems with my Asus Xonar STX card (sample rates displayed in Mint not the true sample rates outputted).
So its far from just stick the iso in and off you go.. Actually Windows is the only OS I can just stick in and off I go. It sorted all of the above out first time without question. A bit of waiting around while it sets up but who cares, once it was done I log in and it works.
Win 8.1 boots A LOT quicker than Mint and Ubuntu too.
In my experience, It does get to the lock screen quickly, and you can then type your password/do squggilies into the login screen. Then you have to wait on that screen for quite a while before the start screen, (or desktop if that's you preference), actually appears, while it actually loads the o/s proper.
> Win 8.1 boots A LOT quicker than Mint and Ubuntu too.
That's because when you select shut down in Windows 8, it goes to sleep. Win 8 _never_ shuts down. Waking from sleep is obviously much faster than a cold boot.
That's also how Windows 8 is so fast at starting apps: it never closes apps, when you click close it hides the interface and switches the app to the background. Next time you start it, it's flipped to the front.
I'm one of the lucky ones, downloaded successfully via the Store within an hour of launch. Booting straight to desktop this morning made me smugly happy!
No such luck for my colleagues trying to update today. For many, the Windows Store doesn't even show the 8.1 tile at all. So we tried downloading the ISO from MSDN instead. 12 KB/Sec for a 3.45 GB file? Sure, I've got three days to spare, who hasn't? But of course the download failed around an hour later. And couldn't be resumed. Using the supposedly-resilient Download Manager...
Other points of amusement were the incompatibility of Microsoft's Download Manager with their own browser. That's right, the ActiveX control doesn't run under IE10 or higher (without forcing compatibility mode). Catch-22, anyone? In reality, the Java-based version of the DLM running in Firefox is more accessible. Also worth mentioning that only the N version of Win8 Pro would even start downloading at all, presumably the vanilla ISO with Media Player included is the more popular choice...
IMO it's a sad state of affairs when the only reliable and fast way to get hold of a copy of the 8.1 upgrade is to torrent the ISO. If you're going to force your customers to use a single online upgrade channel, do it right. I could name a certain fruit-based device peddler who already achieved just that...
Be warned. If you've moved your User profiles folder or the Program Files folder to a different drive or partition other than the C: drive then you can't update to Windows 8.1
It just comes up with the error 'Can't update to Windows 8.1. Sorry, it looks like this PC can't run Windows 8.1. This might be because the Users or Program Files folder is being redirected to another partition.'
I have to call THAT the greatest fuckup I've seen by Microsoft since Vista...
....and to forestall the obvious, tedious, comments - I actually think Windows 7 was good, and I've liked 8 and the Metro interface all along - because I spent 10 minutes laying it out properly and using the Desktop mode as normal. Funnily enough, if you spend even 10% of the time you'd spent whining on forums about it, you'd realise that you only actually ever needed the Start menu very, very rarely - especially since the Windows 7 improved taskbar came along.
If you are upset by all this - why not take a quick look at Ubuntu?
The download is nowhere near 3.5G, it is free and you can try it out from the ISO without installing anything on the local drive.
The latest Ubuntu version 13.10 was released this week.
I still love Windows on my game machine and for business desktop apps, but for everything else, Linux is worth a look.
Sorry but Yawn........
I don't want Linux or need it, I want a simple just works approach to my desktop / laptop life. Thats why I have Windows on the PC (8.1) and a chromebook for the laptop. I have never felt the need to use Linux and the one time I looked at Ubuntu it didn't like my graphics card and expected me to search the web for something to us as a driver rather thsn just installing it or be on the CD that came with it. I spend enough time at work faffing round with computers without starting again when I get home.
Does the fat lil bird run
MS Office with integrated VBA?
Dragon Natural Speaking or an equivalent?
MS One Note or an equivalent? (And no Cloud-only Evernote isn't)
Support all my hardware with 100 percent capabilities?
Photoshop and my camera software
OOB without configuring WINE for hours/days?
Really doesn't matter HOW big the download and necessary updates are. Win 8.x doesn't run on my hardware (at least any of my family's machines that would be running MSWindows), so I won't be running any form of Win8.x. But those machines run Linux *VERY* nicely (and with better performance and fewer problems too).
I upgraded my WIn 7 laptop (3 yr old HP) to Win 8 last weekend. Last night I went up to 8.1 while I made a meal for my kids and watched tele, was done by the time we hit the ice-cream. Just be patient.
No unusual settings, normal software but lots of it. Works absolutely fine.
After a week with Win 8, I can see the point. It's certainly faster and I have to take MS word for it that it is more secure, NSA back doors aside.
Life is all about change so get over yourselves and just do it. If you don't like it, write your own OS and compete or use something else, just stop whinging about it here. Point out the faults - massive d/l, useless Start button - but get over your fucking selves.
It's just an OS upgrade, one in a long line that you will be performing throughout your lives.
Oh what a NIGHTMARE!!! I wasn't aware that by trying the 8.1 beta that it meant having to RE-INSTALL all of my programs when the completed 8.1 was released. It is incredibly short sighted on Microsoft's part to leave their (beta) supporters out in the cold this way.
Somewhere there must be some note that going from 8.1 beta to the full release would require users to re-install all of their programs. But all of my attention was wasted by Microsoft simply jumping through the hoops necessary to have obtained the 8.1 beta in the first place. I was going in circles on their website for hours before I was finally able to get the beta to download and install on my Windows 8 machine.
They should AT LEAST provide either a simple method to REVERT back to Windows 8 OR to install the release version of 8.1 over the 8.1 preview/ beta!
I bought a licence for Windows 8 at the cheapo rate. When I tried to install, it fell over at the final hurdle thanks to something from Acronis.
Given the reports of woes for W8, I never got round to installing it.
So, if I try again, do I have to install * and then get 8.1?
Bet they haven't thought of that one.
When Sun deployed "LiveUpdate" it did the same thing but allowed you to roll back to the previous OS in the event of an Up-Balls Call because it installed the new OS in a clean partition. What a shame that with all the cruftiness MS couldn't have developed an upgrade path of similar awesomeness in the last decade or so. After all, they knew it could be done 'cos someone had already done it. That's the hard part.
Naturally you'd need an "opt out" (or maybe an opt-in) mechanism for those with teenytiny discs.
Of course, all the people who are in the sharp angle where the scissor blades meet already deal with this by various virtualization strategies.
Looks like Linux has yet another opportunity to seize the minds of the masses.
So the safe upgrade path would seem to be:
a) Clone drive and put clone in the media safe (aka Desk Drawer)
2) Download illegal copy of Windows 8.1 over teh torrints
^) Install Windows 8.1 and discover all apps left and gone away.
~) Swap 8.1 disk for clone and continue to gnash teeth while using WIndows 8.
Its not really that bad of a download to get I think of it as a huge service pack. They changed a lot of the GUI for us so of course the file will be rather large. I have a physical ISO of it also, mostly because I'm in school for technology. The best way to get the file is visit the microsoft store website login with your Microsoft account it takes you to the store, then you can do it fairly easy. I'm sure a smaller company may have to do pc by pc I doubt they have a server to deploy operating systems anyways and may have just used physical Windows 8 copies to start with on each pc. This way the install is more unattended at least. i think the larger companies already have deals with Microsoft to use larger volume licensing and use a single deployable image over the network while the server assigns their license or the license can just be used hundreds if not thousands of times before a new one is required. At least you didnt have to go buy it right, it's free with new upgrades I'm happier with it now on my tablet and its easier on my laptop.
Everything was straightforward, if S L O W. I could perhaps blame that on the 1 GHz processor in the Acer Iconia W3 tablet; or a slow connection to the Net, but it took almost four hours to download, install and set up 8.1 at my friendly (free Internet) grocery store's breakfast/lunch ('that's how long it took) office-away-from-the-office.
Will try the RT later.
"So what do you actually get for wasting 3.5GB of bandwidth on every PC?"
Well, I am on home 3g broadband with an 8gb quota.
7 hours for 2.5gb and then was told an error had occured and would I please try again.
Fine , I thought , I had heard that you can resume and it would pick up where it had stopped.
Restarted the process, only to see that it was back to the beginning ! All lost.
O.K. lets test the resume/pause this time. Yes, all works as expected - I could pause and resume, even shutdown and restart and it picked up where it had left off.
Good I thought, lets leave it to download overnight.
checked this morning - same result, 2.5gb downloaded "an unexpected error occurred" - all lost !
So 5gb of my 8gb allowance wasted and no way to get an iso legally - thank you Microsoft.
Needs confirmation from others, but roommate installed 8.1 this morning before going to work, and it first (without asking) altered home network/wifi to be public, removed (not just disabled, but completely removed antivirus), and eventually disabled keyboard and mouse, leaving the touchscreen as the only way to access the system. Needless to say, roommate promptly reimaged his system back to the original windoze 8 setup.
Microsoft must have a death wish. They already have a reputation of being hard for consumers to work with, and this unnecessarily complex upgrade procedure with the possibility of having to reinstall all your applications will turn off a number of people. I'm rooting for Microsoft and have been using Windows/Office for over twenty years, but they leave me shaking my head.
I think Kill Bill was made back when Microsoft Millennium was brought out and 8.1 isn't much better. On my laptop it ate my card reader, my CIR device (infrared) and I still cant fix that, and it blew my wireless card clean off my system. Once I put the Ricoh card reader back on after deleting all the drivers, then restarting the Wireless came back. But the CIR is still broken and I cant find a copy online that will let me install it on my pc anywhere.
I shut off the update repeatedly, it took too long and Comcast my buddy is known for being grumpy and pulling the rug out from under you. The distro deleted my card reader, my CIR winbond transceiver (infrared) and my wireless card. Thank you Microsoft for being there when I need you like a bad rash between the gibblies!
I agree with Hans to a point (only to a point though).
Linux is great. The fact that it's free is no small thing. Although there are too many people that actually think that anything that's "free" isn't good enough to have or use. Linux makes the best os for servers in my opinion, but just isn't user friendly enough for the average user. Most people simply don't understand computers (or even care to understand) well enough to ensure that the right things get done. This lack of understanding coupled with the tremendous hassles involved with the update/upgrade process is why so many people just decide to "have someone else take care of it". It's all kinda sad really. But this is the reality of technology (as it exists today).
I find it kinda funny that so much time, energy, and effort is taken up by all this nonsense, while increasing everyones' frustrations and lowering the amount of time spent actually being productive with these machines/devices. There is very little room left for "enjoying" them. It is NOT meant to make us live in a constant state of fear from hack attacks and virus/trojan/backdoor problems resulting in spending all ones' time in a never ending pursuit of updates/patches/hotfixes. It turns people off.
Business's have too many other things to worry about. It's too hard to justify spending so much time and money on something like this. The individual home user is more likely to just buy a new (whatever machine/device) as a replacement. People in general will only go so far with all this stuff though. Even some of the most basic things seem to fly over the heads of a very large portion of internet users.
It's NOT anti-MS because it's the standard MO for everyone....across the board.
What it is....is the result of so few people understanding or even caring to understand technology that it's all being left to companies like MS and Apple that they end up in a position of control over everything. Then you have the NSA.....for most people, there is no way to win....so you give up and say ok....whatever you want me to do. But then what they want you to do so quickly becomes so convoluted.
Linux has a use if you need a public visible server AND have little money but spare time. In that case short life spans for the free variants, problems to get certain packages to run together on the same distribution and other problems are acceptable.
Otherwise there are better servers with commercial OS that have the "one distribution only" benefit and 10+ years support cycles. They can not be used if visible to the outside (Solaris) but for internal use they are an alternative as well. If you need i.e Oracle and JBoss - Solaris is the prime choice followed (ironically) by Windows Server
> Most people simply don't understand computers (or even care to understand) well enough to ensure that the right things get done.
But this situation is EXACTLY the same with windows too (and also to a degree also applies to Macs as well).
I think this is why tablets are popular, not because people want the form factor (though in some situations it is very good) but because they want the simplicity of iOS and (to a lesser extent,) Android.
This is why Windows on a tablet is a non starter. It retains all the complexity of old windows, but is different so that much current knowledge is no use. (Command line stuff all works OK, but how many normal users know that?)
"But this situation is EXACTLY the same with windows too (and also to a degree also applies to Macs as well)."
No it isn't. One must know what one is doing and make effort to obtain a new PC with Linux fitted, configured and working out of the box. Neither of the two other examples you cite has that problem because as everyone knows, computers come in two types: Windows computers and Apple computers.
The only situation where that is popularly known to be untrue is the Raspberry Pi, which cannot be said to be a fun OOTB experience as a user-interface to the web due to the fact that it was never intended to be.
So, I built a new Pc and bought Windows 8 Pro 2 months ago. Then I saw that I could install a downloaded DVD or Windows 8.1 preview edition. So I thought great; I will install it and then put my new W8 Pro code in to run that when W8.1 was properly released (like now).
BUT Microsoft decided to pull a trick on us.
Those of us who installed W8.1 preview and now put our
Windows 8 codes in are treated to a middle finger and no change except that Microsoft locks down half of the programs such as Windows Media Center etcetera.
Neat trick Microsoft; you never fail to further dispirit your customers of twenty years.
Now I gotta re-install everything again; I think. But I don`t really know because I dont want to spend fifteen hundred hours reading and trying every dam chance to fix it out there.
Booting from the disc also refuses to use the disc, and tells me it can only `refresh the Preview edition. So, I have to do a blank disc re-install. Format. Well, with all my programs and files and net-names and passwords and documents and images and film, all over the place, it will only take me maybe 250 hours to get back to where I was a couple of days ago.
Microsoft never fails to never consult the customer before planning such tricks, even where the customers mention problems with solutions that they consistently overlook.
I was noticing that Downloads for the Windows store are in
C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download
The file follder and file that seems to be created when I started the download was
C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download\6ddb9bcbdad85c71f69371614ee5b2f6\BIT531A.tmp
Since windows graciously allows you to stop the process after the file is downloaded and it starts to asses you computers compatability for upgrade I am going to save the temp file and then copy it to my new computer after I let it create the file folder, pause the process, and then copy the file in the right place and then restart the process, tricking the computer to think it has downloaded the file. Anybody else try this. (I have already upgraded one computer and went to the windows.old folder but the temp file is already deleted, so I am thinking I need to catch it before it actually starts the install but after it is downloaded.)
Downloaded the setup from the Windows store early on the 17th 8Am EST. Took under an hour to download and do the update. All applications were retained from Windows 8 Pro with Media Center. Seemed to work as well as windows hate does.OK, it is just as frustration to use so I'll be sticking with 7. This is a virtual machine so I can run it on 1 of 3 PC's. Glad I only wasted $15 on it and the free media. For those of you who don't have to update from XP, Vista and 7 don't bother it is simply not worth it. Do I hear polished turd worse than Vista?
Tired of hearing your FUD about windows just working ....
The other day, I had to fix a computer that had a broken HDD, the HDD was completely screwed, not even readable with testdisk.
I got a new HDD and looked under that laptop and saw a sticker with a Windows 7 pro key ... I downloaded the legit iso for Windows 7 pro (digital river) and installed it ... after installation, the graphics was 800x600, no network card, no wifi, no sound ... completely unusable computer ... I boot into Linux, go to the HP site (because the linux livecd installed wifi drivers) and downloaded all the drivers for windows ... which I then installed .... Note that my HP wireless printer worked from the livecd without rebooting 2 times to install a 150mb+ of driver ....
So, again, please, those people who back the crooks in Redmond, please LEAVE the IT industry, you are making fools out of yourselves ...please, fuck off or die. Cleaner is a job for you.
"One cleaner already down-voted me ... go on, lets count the idiots on el reg."
One of the cleaners here. Except I don't change hard disk - I have people who do that for me.
And from many many metrics we have gathered whilst I have been in project management within the field of global infrastructure design, build and support we always come back to MSFT.
So if my analysis doesn't equal yours, your scant world view might be challenged
BTW - It was suggested that I come here to take a look at el buitre for an different view and amusement. One result is the change in hiring questions - to dig out closed minded and stupid people like you who appear not to understand what your role is.
Thanks for backing up my extreme prejudices
If you cannot open the Windows Store to get the 8.1 update, the Store might need to be re-registered. See if this helps:
Click [WinKey]-X and select Run; in the Run box, type (or paste) and OK it:
powershell -ExecutionPolicy Unrestricted Add-AppxPackage -DisableDevelopmentMode -Register $Env:SystemRoot\WinStore\AppxManifest.xml
Windows 8 was a nightmare initially, but I got used to it.
It wasn't as easy to work around in the Preview release, but I got used to it, so I got a new laptop for my uni studies - complete with Windows 8 as a OEM release pre-installed.
Loved it.
I looked forward initially to seeing a start button-which is no start button.
I looked forward to the new layout of that start screen, which was okay, and the snapping function performed much better.
HOWEVER...legacy devices didn't function as they should have done, the wireless mouse was working on the desktop and for other daily tasks, editing documents, highlighting and moving files, or selecting and deleting or renaming them all good...
But I'm a big fan of flight sims, particularly War Thunder. Imagine my absolute dismay when the mouse doesn't function as it should with left button clicking.
So I try other games, and they all have the same problem.
Then the Skype app...oh boy, the skype app. I don't know what happened, but the microphone kind of worked, but then didn't. I could hear myself, but the recipient couldn't hear a damn thing. The camera was temperamental. The whole thing began to stink immediately.
Windows 8 was a step backwards? I dunno. Windows 8 was a result of taking a heck of a huge risk and thinking outside the norm. It disappointed many, and some people liked it - arguments all over the place in forums all over the internet. It wasn't something that was invented in a cave. Like Vista. Vista was godawful. 7 was a vast improvement on Vista. Maybe they'd moved into a house thinking the cave was outdated.
Windows 8.1, I decide...not so much a house, but really they're outside consuming magic mushrooms and botching the entire thing for all to see under the pretence of a better OS.
Frankly I've never reverted back from an 'advancement' as quickly as I did from 8.1 back to 8.
As far as I'm concerned, they can go back to that house and work on bringing a better OS out that doesn't look like a flipping phone. Or at least crawl back into that cave.
the ms-windows-store:WindowsUpgrade link opens Store on the homepage, not on the windows upgrade, and searching the freakishly optionless Store provides rubbish like guides to 8,1, but no 8.1 itself.
I suspect this means I have a volume license key here in work, so I am being blocked from direct upgrade via store - if so, then I have to wait for my sysadmins to roll out an upgrade, which will take, oh, a few years, as MS have deniedme access to an upgrade ISO...
Horrendous process for upgrading. I'm really unimpressed.
Maybe they should have hosted some mirrors on AWS?
Also, making it download only is not really reasonable for a 3.5 GB file, if they want everyone to upgrade. I mean, if they don't want people who live in rural areas where megabit internet isn't available to use their product, they're doing great, but I don't think that's what they wanted.
Or what if you're one of those people who tethers to mobile as their main source of connectivity? That's a $35 download if you're over your monthly limit (at least on most US carriers - maybe things are better across the pond? But then again, I hear there's no 4G LTE there yet...)
This post has been deleted by its author
We're on a business park which is about three quarters a mile from the exchange. Now due to the planning of BT the actual cable length of this run is about five times that and so we, and every one else on the business park, get about 100 MB/s download speed on a good day
Imagine how long this could take if we decide to update, say, fifty machines over that connection. Or should we take the machines home to update as part of our homework?
Yes you are right with your comment "This is a new OS not an update", as it removed stuff from 8 rather than just fixing/updating it. What the feck happened to the search and where are the nice "art nouveau" start screen backdrops?
However the statement "Installing 8.1 will remove all your applications users etc from your PC leaving you with a vigin install, your original login and no apps." is just bollox's.
My o/s test laptop, (don't really care about it but nice to test install new windows stuff on it), is currently Vista->Windows 7 -> Windows 8 -> Windows 8.1 in place installs, which is really quite good as I haven't had to reinstall anything other than VMWare and MagicDisk thingy - and yes it is a working machine, (but not my main PC - main PC is Windows 7 with a very good image of the previous XP dev box as a VM).
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