Windows Phone overtakes Apple's market share ... in India Windows Phone has confounded the sceptics by beating iOS for the third consecutive quarter to take second place in the Indian smartphone market, but analysts have warned handset branding will be key to its future growth there in the wake of Microsoft’s Nokia buyout. Redmond was quick to issue a release online this week, …
"Great. I want one! I'll be the envy of all my friends.
This is one "win" Microsoft might not want to crow about."
--
Have you any idea how insulting and outdated comments like this are?
I love Britain, but the days of empire are gone and whilst India has some huge poverty issues (and indeed may be termed third world) the dismissal of it as unimportant or an embarrassment (as your comment implies) shows either a real lack of knowledge or a huge excess of complacency - coupled with downright rudeness..
@Charles Manning
I used simply get amazed that the level of xenophobia and racism in the Reg forums. Lately not so much.
I now understand that people like you simply cannot come to terms with the fact that the natives over whom your ancestors once lorded over are now better than you in most respects. It is you and your ilk, that have made your country the non-entity it now is, in terms if global economic/strategic power. '
Don't like to own a Windows phone because the natives like it? I guess you wont even drive a Jaguar even some gifted it to you. Is because its now owned by the natives or is it because you cant pay for the petrol since your job was outsourced to the natives?
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Does anyone really beleive that a $600 Iphone has any chance of making any impact in a country like India where the annual average wage is something in the order of $1200........
So MS + Nokia manage to bring out a $150 dollar phone and want to make a Front Page spread about how well they are doing.....
Very long and very slow clap for MS and friends, they are becoming more amazing by the day.... ( Ballmer just retire, please for the sake of humanity retire).
Someone who have never actually dealt with them.
Techie gets out of Uni, gets first job low wages in support team. If they get decent they move to a higher paid place, from there they may go self employed.
The really good Indian techies work in Europe and US, or run companies in India and pay decent wages.
The poor ones stay in the low pay jobs.
I have dealings with a self employed programmer and he is pretty good.
Please don't get Steve Ballmer to retire early.
He's the one reason I wake up in the morning and read the news, to find out the next major cock up he's made. Whether it's bigging up Zune against Apple, or launching one screwed OS after another, alientating users with license terms that make no sense, blowing billions on companies that turn out to be worthless. The list goes on.
I would pay for this entertainment, not much admittedly and certainly not to Microsoft, but look how much pleasure he brings to the world. People like Steve need to be cherished and nurtured, not thrown onto the scrap heap just because he is (to be honest) a "fucking big mill stone around Microsofts neck dragging the share price down". Look, anybody who can raise the share price of Microsoft by 5% simply by announcing he's leaving can't be all bad, can he?
Here's some perspective for you: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/hardware/phablets-grab-30-of-the-smartphone-market-share-sales-up-17-fold-in-fy14-q2/articleshow/22424356.cms
The reason $600 phones is not making much sales is:
People are buying more tablets
Apple has nothing new to offer to keep pace with the fast changing expectations
Local manufacturers like Micromax have positioned feature rich models for $300 or less
Windows phones are being bought by college students and women
Annual Average wage is just that, an average. There is atleast a 150 million plus market for highend smartphones, provided there's value for money features provided by the manufacturers
"....and women"
Nice of you to tag that on. So Nokia phones are not MANLY and are used by "students and WOMEN".
This is why IT is still in the f*cking dark ages and why it's populated by more virgins than a convent.
Have some RESPECT.
If you have an axe to grind against MS / Nokia, that's your lifestyle choice, using that to have a cheap jibe at a particular country / nationality / sex of people using a particular phone is pathetic and reprehensible.
He said it did, past tense. The relevant point was the tense not the spelling.
You also have to remember than India has 1.27 billion people.
So 19 times the UK population.
The wealthiest 5% of Indian are the same size market as the entire UK. The wealthiest 10% present a market twice the size of the UK.
Microsoft have already started airbrushing Nokia out of their marketing.
Probably not an advisable move considering buyers in countries such as India tend to buy the brand, not the operating system. Nokia is still a well respected brand in India - Microsoft and Windows, not so much. Watch sub-continent sales plummet once the Microsoft Lumia hits the market...
Constantly amazed at the speed with which some people trot out the same tired old tripe every time any Windows Phone story comes out. Competition is GOOD - it forces entrenched market leaders to improve their wares, and if they're that good then they should be confident that they can overcome any competition. Look at what happened to Internet Explorer when it was so dominant that there was no effective competition - Microsoft basically declared it "done", stopped innovating and the world was left with a pile of crap for a browser. Strong competition came along in the name of Firefox and later Chrome, all of a sudden MS have to pull their socks up and improve their product. The same applies to phone ecosystems - MS are now the new kid (ok, for the second time around admittedly) instead of the 800lb gorilla in this market and if they bring something new to the table and cause Apple (particularly) and Android to up their games, so much the better for everyone. Why the quasi-bigotry about Windows Phone? It is far from perfect, but it does a lot of things very well. Embrace the competition, it's good for you!
By the way, a bit sad to see the bigotry extends past the operating system wars and into racism on here! Seriously, are you saying you wouldn't like a slice of the income from the 3rd biggest phone market in the world?
Yes competition is good, but given how much microsoft have done to stifle competition in other markets there are many of us who want to avoid them ever getting any form of traction in other markets out of fear of the same things happening again.
There are plenty of other competitors to android/ios who would be far better for the overall market.
"...many of us who want to avoid them ever getting any form of traction in other markets out of fear of the same things happening again."
... and all the while not giving two hoots about the fact that the market leader in this sector is built on the foundation of gathering and selling as much data about you as possible. So concerned about Microsoft's past that you don't see Google becoming the new Microsoft....
> that you don't see Google becoming the new Microsoft....
If Google was like Microsoft it would buy Jolla and strangle it, threaten Samsung until Tizen was abandonned, and would never have let anyone use Android without Google services.
The difference is that Google succeeds, not because there is no alternative, but because Google provides better products that people want.
>> The difference is that Google succeeds, not because there is no alternative, but because ...
> You are implying that Microsoft only succeeded because there was no alternative in the same sentence that you're pointing out that one of the alternatives succeeded.
Microsoft succeeded _on_the_desktop_ and from _the_mid_90s_ because they eliminated the alternatives by various means. Such as illegal per-box pricing, vapourware, buying and killing application providers, bundling, and paying OEMs (via 'loyalty' discounts and direct payments) to _not_ offer or install alternatives.
Microsoft initially ignored the internet (in the first edition of 'The Road Ahead' there was no mention of the internet) and then tried to side line it with the original MSN which was a private network for Windows 95 users. They hoped to kill the internet and replace it under MS control. They gave away IE to kill Netscape (and killed Spyglass too).
Google became a large company in a quite different market by providing services that people wanted. For example in search it was Microsoft that tried to be an alternative to Google by configuring Windows machines to default to Bing and making it difficult to change, and by taking over Yahoo!'s search engine (Yahoo had earlier bought and killed Alta Vista).
"The difference is that Google succeeds, not because there is no alternative, but because"
There were always alternatives to MS.
Apple pre-dates MS, so you always had Apple as an alternative.
Unix pre-dates MS.
There were CPM and a half-dozen other competitors to MS in the operating system marketplace.
And writing a new OS was not so difficult back in 1980, console makers did it. You had that as an alternative too.
For OTHER PRODUCTS, Wordperfect, Word Star and Lotus 123 were competitors in that pre-dated MS.
"If Google was like Microsoft it would buy Jolla and strangle it, threaten Samsung until Tizen was abandonned, and would never have let anyone use Android without Google services."
If Google was like Apple you'd need to pay big bucks for Google-branded computer with a Core i5 in order to access it.
If Google was like Apple it would have fanbois saying how great those Core i5 computers were.
"There are plenty of other competitors to android/ios who would be far better for the overall market."
There are plenty of other competitors who you'd PREFER to be better for the overall market, but they just don't have the mindshare, market share or strength to affect the overall market for the better. So, while they might be ethically preferable, at the moment they aren't better for the market as they're ineffective. Blackberry sadly seem to be dying a death, Firefox OS isn't winning any plaudits in its first incarnation, WebOS, Meego and a thousand Linux or Android forks are nowhere to be seen and won't have the tiniest effect on the planning teams working on Android and iOS until they can make themselves significant. Until then - and I do hope that day comes - WinPhone 8 is the best argument for Android and iOS to keep innovating and improving themselves regardless of Microsoft's past history.
Anyone seen "Rush"? The bit from Niki Lauda at the end sums it up - a wise man learns more from his enemies than a fool learns from his friends.
And how could 3rd or even 2nd place make them control anything? Especially when 2nd place is so far behind 1st place still.
I suspect one ought to worry about the system in 1st place more and be glad that there IS a choice for people not wanting ad-phones where designers of any kind appear to never have been employed.
I still feel terrible about owning a Samsung 'smart' TV, appalling software and the reliability is crap too.
"Yes competition is good, but given how much microsoft have done to stifle competition in other markets there are many of us who want to avoid them ever getting any form of traction in other markets out of fear of the same things happening again."
Do you think firms engage in competition out of charitable goodwill to mankind? No! You as a commercial market actor engage in only as much competition as you must. If you could charge £10 million per year as your salary, you would. As it happens you're obliged to compete with other people presumably offering much less to provide what you do.
The only reason you're not complaining about Apple is they're a luxury goods maker. Customers of luxury goods makers queue up to be ripped off, that's the whole point. So nobody is accusing Apple of anticompetitive behaviour because they're simply not involved in markets for essential products. Their products are unless you're a graphic designer completely superfluous.
"The only reason you're not complaining about Apple is they're a luxury goods maker. Customers of luxury goods makers queue up to be ripped off, that's the whole point. So nobody is accusing Apple of anticompetitive behaviour because they're simply not involved in markets for essential products. Their products are unless you're a graphic designer completely superfluous."
Apple did far more to stifle competition than MS ever did.
There would be no MS is Apple had not worked so hard at stifling competition.
Apple didn't license its software, er huh, Wozniak's software, MS did.
Apple heavily restricts what add-ons can carry its label, MS is much lighter.
"but Microsoft will have to cope without the name once its acquisition of the Finnish giant’s device business goes through."
Umm... No
Microsoft have said that they are looking at unified (i.e. Micorsoft) branding at some point for smartphones, but they are buying the rights to use the Nokia name on mobile phones for 10 years. No need to stop calling them Nokia Lumia's until they *want* to.
Umm... No
Microsoft have said that they are looking at unified (i.e. Micorsoft) branding at some point for smartphones, but they are buying the rights to use the Nokia name on mobile phones for 10 years. No need to stop calling them Nokia Lumia's until they *want* to.
Umm... Yes.
Microsoft have a 10 year licence to use the Nokia brand on FEATURE phones, but NOT smart phones. Once the deal completes, the Lumia devices will have to be rebranded since Microsoft don't have the right to continue using the Nokia brand in relation to anything but feature phones. Are we clear on this now? Good.
"Re: just sour grapes
But, but ... we're still a world leader in banking ."
And we have that "Special Relationship" with the USA that Tony Blair sacrificed so many lives for.
As an expat living in Canada and coming into contact with people from all over the world, England is one of the least racist places.
Yes England has some awful racists (and the comment about India not having people who could afford snob goods like iPhones was silly), but racists in England make up a smaller percentage of the population than most countries. (I am using the generic definition of racists, people who think their race is better than the others, and using the non-US definition of race, meaning race includes not just color.)
People immigrating, they are going to places where they will be foreigners. They choose countries or regions of countries where racism is less, and if they make mistakes they leave.
I think a lot of people these days are so keen to be politically correct that they're hypersensitive to supposed racism and see it when it's not there. Not in this case, though. Some appalling shit on this thread.
Now I'm trying to work out whether IT people are more sexist or racist. Tough call.
Autistic Spectrum is not an excuse, I've worked with lots of people who are "on the spectrum" ranging from levels where I only knew because they told me, to barely able to function in society. None of these people have been racist and all of them have been able to tell right from wrong.
That's the thing about India and China. There's loads of them. 1% of a billion is still a rather significant 10 million people. So even if only 10% of the population can afford a smartphone, you're already talking 100 million people. Given how fast their economies are growing, and lifting ever more people into the upper-working, and middle classes, they're going to become ever more important.
Also, there's a rebalancing due. Especially for China. As the Yuan rises, the artificial export advantage and import disadvantage diminishes. This has the bad effect (for them) of making exports less competitive, but the upside that imports get cheaper, so Chinese wages are no longer artificially held down and they can afford more consumer goodies. The thing is that China imports loads of its industrial raw materials, so that will partially offset the export disadvantage, and also mean it becomes cheaper to sell goods made from imported raw materials into the domestic market.
Another interesting thing about India: The UN, EU, UK and US all ascribe more global influence to India than China. India is considered a primary of the 'Strong Powers' (a slight step below the now disued 'Great Power' which is what the UK and Germany used to be considered).
China can be largely ignored, their wealth and security is wholly dependent on the well being of the the countries financially indebted to them as well as hinging on the import of raw materials. India cannot be ignored as their structure and security is not held completely hostage to the value of the Dollar or Euro, they produce a lot of their own raw materials and have a much higher base level of education.
Interesting place, India.
We can safely ignore China. Yes they won't invade us or take our territory.
The countries near it cannot. Militarily it has been rather aggressive, even asserting that territory on the other side of neighbouring island countries is Chinese territory.
Very concerning for the Philippines and Japan.
You don't try to capture a market by competing with the established players head to head at the high end. You sell to a demographic who previously did not buy those products, such as an emerging middle class in a developing nation. The big boys will concede the low end because that is not where the big margins are found. You then work your way upmarket incrementally.
It worked for Japanese and then Korean products and will work for Chinese, Indian and African products.
That's fine, so long as when they rise up the income ladder they continue to buy your products. It remains to be seen how well that works for Nokrosoft.
Windows Phone may be beating the iPhone in market share, but by doing it mostly selling cheap phones with little margin, Apple is still making an order of magnitude more money in India than they are. By not chasing the low end market, Apple is trying to maintain their status as a high end aspirational brand. If they succeed, a good portion of those current Lumia 520 owners will buy an iPhone in the future if/when they can afford it.
It has always proven rather difficult for companies to sell on the low end while simultaneously maintaining their status as a high end brand. It can work in the short run, but rarely in the long run. You often need to start another brand (i.e. Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Infiniti) to succeed. That works well for cars because Toyota dealers also sell Lexus, but if Lumia became devalued as a brand in India due to the prevalence of cheap Lumia 520s and Microsoft needed a new branding for high end WP devices, only those customers who walk into a Microsoft store would be likely to have the same conversion rates that Toyota owners do to being Lexus owners.
Geopolitics is clearly not an intellectual strongpoint for closet racists.
The Indian market for new tech is way bigger than Little England's. Slagging off Indian programmers is also a bit dim, when you consider their input into most major operating systems. You don't need to be a toothy Wasp to write code for West Coast tech monoliths.
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