back to article So, who here LURVES Windows Phone? Put your hands up, Brits

Nokia's cheap Lumia handsets helped Microsoft's Windows Phone operating system to a nearly nine per cent share of the UK market - but for all the Finns' efforts, the Lumia is still a rounding error in the United States. The data comes from a Kantar Worldpanel poll of buyers globally in the second calendar quarter of 2013; the …


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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Thats a lot of people...

    trolling Eadon with their wallets

    1. Paul 135

      Re: Thats a lot of people...

      These sales are more to do with the strength of the Nokia brand in Europe and little to do with MS.

      If Nokia wants to reach its former strength then it needs to go back and do what it was doing before Elop screwed everything up. I.e. an open-source linux-based OS with Android and Qt app compatibility.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Thats a lot of people...

      de mortuis nil nisi bonum. Give the poor fellow a rest. He probably had to fix one borked Server 2003 installation too many, and is now ambling among the lambkins and the long grass in the Great Server Farm in the Sky.

  2. Danny 5

    Faboy here

    I love my Lumia 900, only gripe being it doesn't have windows phone 8, but 7.8 does the job quite well.

    The lumia series are great phones, but i don't think it really apeals to the kids, which is the demo everyone is aiming for. Uptake of the Lumia in office environments is actually quite good, probably due to the rock solid reputation Nokia Earned in the office workplace.

    I think there's a good future for Nokia and Winphone, but they need to work hard to make it happen.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Faboy here

      Windows Phone is approaching critical mass and has pushed Blackberry into a distant 4th place. Just a few more 'essential' apps are needed to really start sticking it to Apple....

      1. Jess

        Re: pushed Blackberry into a distant 4th

        But if WinPho can recover, so can BB.

        1. El Andy

          Re: pushed Blackberry into a distant 4th

          Not really. BB has the problem of being inherently tied to a single device manufacturer, which limits the potential for market penetration quite significantly. It's the same reason Android has dwarfed iOS, because Apple simply can't supply devices for the entire market, even if they could persuade everyone to buy one.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: pushed Blackberry into a distant 4th

          WinPho is outselling BB by 8:1 in the US and 2:1 in the UK and the gap is growing....

      2. fishman

        Re: Faboy here

        <<<Windows Phone is approaching critical mass and has pushed Blackberry into a distant 4th place. >>>

        Blackberry has pushed Blackberry into 4th place.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    mine is ok

    I wont pretend its the best thing since sliced bread but for the price my 620 is very good.

    though I've little free system memory, i have as many apps on as i want. Plenty of room for audio on the memory card i fitted though.

    and an audio line out as on the iPhone would make in car use better, but on the plus side the headphone jack is integral with easily replaced back covet rather than extortionately inaccessible.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: mine is ok

      With you on that. I own one, and as a phone it is rather good. The browsing sucks battery, the email application could be better if you use imap, the Music app is shockingly bad (try Music Wall) and I don't trust Microsoft (but I don't trust Google either), but on the plus side, it is very easy to use, refreshingly so; one handed is a breeze here with the form factor and the OS. The recording quality with sound is pretty good for a phone using the built in mic. The battery life can be two days if you don't do a lot of browsing, actually using it as a phone hardly seems to impact the battery life! The build quality is good, plus if you do manage to scratch the covers, the design means that a new cover effectively makes it look like a new phone. The IP rated cover is a great idea too, if you can find them. I do miss the configuration and control you get with a Cyanogenmod android, however, get this: The lumia behaves better connected to Linux than the Android ever did. Can't quite get over that. Piss easy to transfer music and photos.

      Skype though, skype is a right royal pita on Windows Phone 8. Surprisingly. It is better on Linux.

    2. Professor Clifton Shallot

      Re: mine is ok

      Thanks AC - would welcome more of these sort of reviews from actual users on Windows phones from other Reg users.

      I'm open minded about which phone OS to use and I do remember my old Nokia's fondly - the E61 I was using until a few months ago remains the best-built phone I've ever had - but I am not sure if the move to Windows Phone has allowed them to maintain that sort of standard.

      1. Neil B
        Thumb Up

        Re: mine is ok

        I have a 620 and it's absolutely...fine. Battery life for normal day-to-day phone, messaging, etc. is pretty good (maybe 4 days?) but apps and games suck it dry disappointingly fast. This is a pity because the bundled Nokia apps are bloody excellent. I do suffer from the problem that some of the apps I want are iOS and Android only, but I don't lose sleep over it.

        My wife has an 8S and it's excellent in all respects. She really loves it.

        The WinPhone8 OS itself is IMO great fun to use and has made a lot of really smart choices. Office and SkyDrive integration is slick as hell. Objectively, to me at least, it's the best interface on the market, and if you're part of the MS ecosystem, it is a complete no-brainer. For the broader user, not so much, and therein is the problem until it gets some serious traction.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: mine is ok

        The integration between different forms of accounts is by turns astounding and disturbing.

        I've got three email accounts - MSLive/hotmail, yahoo, and gmail - twitter, Facebook and skype on my phone.

        You take a photo and then pick share: the phone asks you which of the aforementioned (plus SMS and SkyDrive) you want to share through.

        At the same time the People app/function is feeding you updates of your contacts activities across twitter, Facebook etc. And the "Me" one is grouping your activities on social media and reactions to them.

  4. theOtherJT Silver badge

    Raises hand...

    But "take its own sweet time promoting" is clearly causing a serious problem here.

    Let's face it, what does everyone complain about with winpho? Apps. It's always the apps. How many smart phone users do you think actually _care_ about apps? I'm willing to bet the vast majority of iPhone users buy their iPhone, play about with it a bit, install angry birds, then never use the store again.

    Most people - I don't mean the sort of people who read the reg, I mean people who don't give a damn about technology - do not care about apps. They care about shiny. They care about easy. iPhones are shiny. iPhones are easy.

    Lumia's are easy too, and the more expensive ones are even shiny... but I'm willing to bet that although 99% of people will probably have heard of Nokia, a huge number of them won't even know that there _is_ such a think as windows phone for all the promotion it's had.

    1. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

      Re: Raises hand...

      If you don't want apps, then why have a smartphone? For the web browser? For the social media? These are apps So is YouTube. So is the one that controls your PVR remotely. On the other hand, if you just want the browser, a "feature phone" will do.

      What about all the people whose children spent huge amounts of money on in-app, in-game purchases? They're using apps, although they may have not known that.

      I assume also that if you get a Windows phone then it says Windows all over it, or Windows Phone with the word "Phone" printed very small.

      1. lurker

        Re: Raises hand...

        @Robert Carnegie

        I think the point being made was more that many people don't care about the wide availability of 15,000 fart apps, and are mostly happy to use the apps which come as standard with the phone.

        I mean, I'm an alpha nerd who was compiling kernels by hand back when linux came on 22 floppies, but I still don't really have the time or inclination to mess around with my current smartphone (nexus 4) much. So although in theory I am glad to own an unlocked phone which I can potentially tinker with, actually for 99.9% of the stuff I use the phone for, a winphone would probably do the job just as well despite a much smaller pool of apps.

        1. Snark

          Re: Raises hand...

          I have a 620. I really like it, but I think Nokia are the best thing thats happened to WinPhone with the amount of apps Nokia have provided.

          a) The build quality is really good, like really really good. It feels a lot more expensive than it is.

          b) Phone call quality is excellent. Nokia excellent.

          c) The battery life is pretty darned good for what I use it for, texts, phonecalls, email, browsing sometimes, as a satnav, a few pass time apps, looking up the weather, etc. In fact I've stopped bothering to turn off my data now (something I always made sure I did on my old Sony Xperia Mini Pro) and it seems to be very reasonable in how its handling background data.

          d) The screen is really nice, the deep black and vibrancy of it make up for the resolution being lower than top end phones.

          e) It's a nice size for the hand and pocket to make it easy to carry, easy to use with one hand.

          f) The Nokia Here apps are really really good. The SatNav works better than my TomTom (it's faster, more responsive, recalculates quicker), it's easy to read and use. The augmented reality "what's here" apps might be a bit of a gimmick visually but they work well and give useful information as to whats around and are so quick to use I find myself using it more than similar apps on Android. These apps fit together and feel consistent.

          g) The way WinPhone 8 brings together information on people you know from texts, calls, facebook, etc, is really neat. I wish it could group together some more info (like yahoo mail) but what it does, it does more intuitively than any of the Android apps I used.

          h) WinPhone 8's model of partitioning user data feels a bit of a pain so loading audio, etc, in can end up being segregated by different apps and having to use SkyDrive. It is a more sensible security model though IMHO and stops the Android sprawl you see on a memory card, etc, after you've installed and uninstalled apps. It needs to be made more seemless, and allow you to make the choice to organise your files a bit more but, it has a solid base.

          i) I would like to group my apps rather than have a list, but, you have live tiles instead and a single list does make things well, simple.

          j) Livetiles. I thought I would never use these but actually people are starting to come up with good ideas. Weather updates from the Weather Channel, data usage/balance from giffgaff, Nokia's congestion for commuting. People seem to be starting to get the feel of it.

          k) Apps. Yes, the app store is limited. I would love a Barclays banking app, I would love a proper Yahoo Mail/Messenger App. I can live without both though, its a niggle not a head banging the wall. I have some "I wish I could have..." but it doesn't stop me from finding the phone slicker and more coherent and together than my old Android.

          l) App Store. It's a mess. Really. The layout is horrible, you can't see instantly what you already have installed, remote installing from the web fails half the time, you can't see what are "official" apps. The W8 (and W8phone) stores just need redesigning from scratch to how people use and search for things.

          m) I would rather have Chrome than IE as a browser, but it seems to work ok.

          So upshot - I wouldn't have bought a phone for Win8 phone, but I am happy enough with having decided to buy a Nokia 620 that just happened to have Win8. All the niggles are just that, niggles and ones which an be addressed if MS every listen to users about how they use their phone. On the whole though, they've done a reasonable job and none of them make me wish I didn't have the 620.

        2. theOtherJT Silver badge

          Re: Raises hand...

          Pretty much this. I mean, I unlocked my android handset when I got it so I could install anything I liked than then... and then did... sort of nothing, actually. Never found I needed to.

          It's a _phone_ for gods sake. It gets email, text and phone calls. Sometimes I look things up on the internet to decide arguments in the pub. Occasionally I take photos... that's pretty much it. I've never really found that I want it to do more than that, and I strongly suspect that's true for most people.

          Sure, technically those are applications, because _technically_ it's a general purpose computer these days and _everything_ (the phone included) is an application - but I wouldn't really class them as "Apps" in the "App store" sense of the word. I didn't have to go and download them.

          The only thing that's alarmingly missing from WinPho from my perspective is a decent RDP client - which for a Microsoft product seems a little weird - but I very much doubt anyone who doesn't work in IT cares about that.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Raises hand...

          > I think the point being made was more that many people don't care about the wide availability of 15,000 fart apps

          You can never have enough fart apps. Crack me up every time!

    2. Neil B

      Re: Raises hand...

      I'm not sure that's exactly true. I think people like to think they care about apps, and there's a certain security in knowing that if and when they care about apps, it's (reportedly) iOS and Android that should be their destination.

      However hard it was going to be for MS to make a dent in the post-Apple smartphone market, they're not doing themselves any favours with poor promotion and glacially slow updates.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hmmmm corporate skewing ?

    My employer has to issue Lumias, as they insist only a Windows-based device is allowed to connect to their email system. I wouldn't have chosen one ....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hmmmm corporate skewing ?

      "My employer has to issue Lumias, as they insist only a Windows-based device is allowed to connect to their email system. I wouldn't have chosen one ....!"

      They probably care about security. Windows Phone is the only uncracked major mobile OS. Even BB10 was rooted already.

      Also it's highly manageable via SCCM that they probably already have.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Hmmmm corporate skewing ?

        Samsung Knox been cracked has it? Care to show a citation?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward


        Oh, it's *all* about security. My employer is pursuing an aggressive mobile workforce strategy, which is currently reaping dividends in cost reduction and flexibility. The aim is to have us all working out of a bank of phoneboxes in Neath, with the Little Chef for hotdesks.

      3. Joe Montana

        Re: Hmmmm corporate skewing ?

        Uncracked because there's no users? i doubt firefoxos or jolla has been cracked yet either. You can bet windows phone will be cracked too if anyone cares enough. Windows RT was cracked quickly enough, and it's a very similar system.

        And if they cared about security, then they wouldn't be allowing windows based desktops to access their email...

        1. andreas koch

          @ Joe Montana - Re: Hmmmm corporate skewing ?

          I don't think that you should have such an aggressive opinion about this: Do you usually open your unlocked door with a crowbar? No? Then why would you mention an open source software like FirefoxOS and cracking in the same sentence?


          oh, never mind.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Hmmmm corporate skewing ?

          "Windows RT was cracked quickly enough, and it's a very similar system."

          Windows RT also remains uncracked.

          There is a way of running unsigned apps by turning on a development feature provided in the OS by Microsoft, but the RT security has not been cracked - if you reboot the tablet, you can longer run unsigned apps...You cannot modify OS files....

  6. Simon Rockman

    Nokia never had the same brand affinity in the States.

    There is a pleasantly retro vibe about owning a Nokia here. A friend posted on Facebook today that she'd just bought a Lumia: She's a fashion maven, not a techie. She probably thinks an operating system is something to do with hospitals and that serial interface is having your breakfast.

    But a 'Lumia' has the cool factor.

    There was a time when Nokia had over 50% UK market share and 80% of those customers said that they would never buy another brand of mobile phone. These are probably the people who then went and bought pink Razrs and today have iPhones but they can be won back to Nokia.

    There is no "Back" for the Americans, many of whom think Nokia is a Japanese brand. They can't even pronounce it properly.

    1. GregC

      There was a time when Nokia had over 50% UK market share and 80% of those customers said that they would never buy another brand of mobile phone.

      I was one of those people, until Elop killed MaemoMeego off and made the switch to WinPhone. I wouldn't touch a Nokia with a shitty stick now...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I was one of those all time Nokia fans, I'd always had a Nokia since practically my first phone in the mid 90s. The xpress music 5800 killed it for me, buggy, crashy, incomplete OS, poor build quality and never ready updates. The rot at Nokia set in long, long before Elop arrived.

        I do now own a Lumia 820 and it's a pretty good device, the OS is fine, the apps available suit me. The build quality seems good and it has a pleasing heft to it. I'm pleased that Nokia seem to have turned the corner towards rebuilding their business again.

  7. Thecowking

    Yet to see one in the wild

    I work with phones, I habitually check what phone people are using when I see one and I've yet to see a windows phone in the wild.

    So if people are buying them, they're not using them in public as far as I can see.

    Anecdotal evidence is still evidence, it even says it right in the name.

    Mind you, if they're as hard to get as a Surface RT with the uni deal (still no sign of it, started the process as soon a I saw it was announed), I'm not surprised.

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Yet to see one in the wild

      "invented evidence" also has "evidence" in the name :)

      I know two people who have them (as do I) but unless someone has their phone out I wouldn't be aware what phone they have unless they email with a "sent from my ..." signature or upload a picture to FaceBook with their phone.

      In the same way, I have NEVER seen anyone use a non-Apple tablet which is plain weird as Android has supposedly got a decent market share now. I see loads of Android phones but no tablets. Also no Windows tablets but that is not very surprising :)

      1. fandom

        "unless someone has their phone out"

        And, as we all know, that never happens in public.

        It's not like phones are like tablets which people use all the time while walking on the streets and so you can see that nobody has an android one.

        1. Thecowking

          Re: "unless someone has their phone out"

          It seems people have issues with sarcasm on the internet.

          I even typed the wrinkle in the paper above the m.

          1. Dave 126 Silver badge

            Re: "unless someone has their phone out"


            You didn't say where in the world you were based. Here in a popular public house in semi-rural England, there are a few people with WinPho8 Nokias... enough that the figure of 10% seems about right.

            1. Thecowking

              Re: "unless someone has their phone out"

              Here in Cambridge, I don't see any.

              Though I still see a fair number of old Blackberries around too. In the pubs it's all android here, the odd iphone. Reverse that for the coffee shops and locations closer to the uni.

      2. Piro Silver badge

        Re: Yet to see one in the wild

        Maybe people who use Android tablets aren't the bell-ends that take pictures using their tablet.

        I saw someone recently actually using an iPad to take photos. What on earth is that.

        1. Snark

          Re: Yet to see one in the wild

          I'd heard about "ipad photos" but didn't believe it til I saw someone stopping outside the MGM in Vegas in the middle of the walkway and holding up their ipad. I guess there is nowt as queer as folk.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Yet to see one in the wild

      You can't be looking very hard. I'm in a 6 man office and one has a windows phone.

      Anecdotal evidence in anecdotal.

    3. Robert E A Harvey

      Re: Yet to see one in the wild

      >So if people are buying them, they're not using them in public as far as I can see.

      Yeah, I'd be afraid of being laughed at too.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Yet to see one in the wild

      "I work with phones, I habitually check what phone people are using when I see one and I've yet to see a windows phone in the wild."

      I assume you don't live in the UK then - they are all over the place.

    5. 20legend

      Re: Yet to see one in the wild

      I've seen a couple.

      Out of the 12 guys in my engineering workshop two bought WP devices (bar one iPhone user the rest all have 'droids).

      One returned his as he didn't like WP compared to iOS, and the other now has a Lumia shaped brick (it wont charge or power up anymore) and has replaced it with a shiny new HTC One.

    6. jason404i

      Re: Yet to see one in the wild

      You don't get out much then, do you?

      I saw two Lumia owners just last night. I see them on most days.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Quick and dirty survey created


    1. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

      Re: Quick and dirty survey created

      Results here:

  9. This post has been deleted by its author

  10. Robert Grant

    I've got an 8X

    Some features I'd like MS to move faster than a glacier on, but generally it's good, and I - weirdly - get strangers stopping and talking to me about how good it looks, so I guess that's good if you like that sort of thing.

  11. Gomez Adams

    Better than the alternatives

    Especially if you are a hard-line Apple and Android refusenik like I am. Would not let either of those anywhere near my personal data.

  12. Vociferous

    My hand's not up.

    I deeply, honestly, heartfeltly (is that a word?), despise and loathe my Windows Phone, an HTC Radar. There's nothing wrong with the phone itself, it's solid, but the OS (WinPhone 7.5) is stunningly bad. Half the screens can't be rotated, some screens (e.g. the Contacts screen) doesn't fit in the 4" display so edges are, the interface is not consistent (e.g. there's four different Enter-icons, used in different ways), it can not be customized at all, it is full of bloatware which can not be uninstalled, and the only way to access the phone from another devices is via the worst, most insultingly poorly designed and misfeatured, piece of software I've ever had inflicted on me since getting my first ZX Spectrum in 1983: Zune.

    I hear some of these problems (notably Zune) have been fixed in WinPhone 8, but personally I would sooner listen to a Justin Bieber sings dubsteb versions of classical polkas-marathon, with cracked speakers, than ever get a new Windows Phone.

    1. spiny norman

      Re: My hand's not up.

      Bloatware that can't be uninstalled seems to be a mobile phone problem generally, not specific to Windows. On Android at least it's the hardware manufacturers and carriers that install it, it isn't part of the OS. As they all do it and there's no alternative, and their customer service systems are set up to ignore complaints like that, I don't suppose it will ever change.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: My hand's not up.

        TBF - Talking about windows phone 7.5 when 8 is out is like complaining about Gingerbread when Ice cream Sandwich is out.

        As for bloatware, mine came with Nectar and Groupon and a few others. They uninstalled fairly easily. Going through it seems only apps like Calculator, Explorer and the like can't be uninstalled. Whether this is a carrier thing or not, I dunno. I sourced this one from Car Phone Warehouse and it was a PAYG model, which I junked the sim on on a different carrier.

        1. Tom 38

          Re: My hand's not up.

          TBF - Talking about windows phone 7.5 when 8 is out is like complaining about Gingerbread when Ice cream Sandwich is out.

          Most active android devices are still Gingerbread, according to Google.

      2. dajames

        Re: My hand's not up.

        Bloatware that can't be uninstalled seems to be a mobile phone problem generally, not specific to Windows.

        That's true enough.

        On Android at least it's the hardware manufacturers and carriers that install it, it isn't part of the OS.

        That doesn't make it any less annoying, though. At least on Android -- from Ice Cream Sarnie onwards -- you can Hide any unwanted and not-uninstallable apps so that you don't see them again (and, perhaps more impotantly, so that you don't get pestered to update them with new versions that use up memory).

      3. tirk

        Bloatware (@spiny norman)

        One of the advantages Apple have in being the monopoly hardware supplier is no bloatware and hence consistency. I often think this is underrated as one of the factors that make their users loyal.

      4. Joe Montana

        Re: My hand's not up.

        On Android there is plenty of alternative...

        Nexus phones?

        Custom roms?

        Phones from other manufacturers who install less or no bloatware?

      5. Zane

        There's no alternative...

        This might be true for Windows Phones.

        It's not true for Android. Just google for it.


    2. returnmyjedi

      I always found WP to be the least bloatware laden of any of the handsets. The only things that don't seem to be uninstallable are the phone, messaging, music, games, contacts, calender and settings apps. Compare that to ios where your stuck with stocks, bookshelf, newstand etc.

    3. Gav

      Re: My hand's not up.

      "the worst, most insultingly poorly designed and misfeatured, piece of software I've ever had inflicted on me since getting my first ZX Spectrum in 1983: Zune"

      You've never tried using Samsung Kies, have you? Same function as Zune, a whole new level of suck. I refuse to believe Zune can possibly be worse Kies. It's not physically possible.

      1. Vociferous

        Re: My hand's not up.

        Oh, I doubt Kies is worse. You see, besides enforcing DRM and being a filter making sure nothing horrible, like a file with an extension it doesn't recognize, ever reaches the phone, Zune uses Metro with SIMULATED TOUCH INTERFACE. When I first downloaded the 250 MB slug and fired it up, I was greeted by two icons. I moved my pointer towards one of the icons - and it jumped away. I moved my mouse pointer to the other icon - and it, too, jumped away. I was supposed to drag the screen ("simulated touch interface") with the pointer, not move the pointer.

        Mind. Blown.

        A billion dollar company had, in a central piece of software in a strategically important product, reproduced the functionality of the old Magistr virus/joke from 2001, and somehow thought this was a good idea.

        That was the moment when I realized that there were no longer any grown-ups in charge at Microsoft, or at least no sober ones.

  13. nichomach

    My Lumia 620's great, and my wife is getting along *very* well with her HTC Windows Phone 8X.

  14. spiny norman

    Yesterday my Galaxy S3 spent several hours downloading an update to AllShareCast Dongle, which I don't need and don't want but can't uninstall without rooting. Meanwhile, something I would like - a fix to the bugs in Bluetooth and the Google app process that keeps crashing - never arrives. A Windows phone is actually starting to look quite attractive.

  15. GarethPN

    My wife has a Windows phone (Lumia 800 with v7.8). She loves it, says it is the best phone she has had, I had a play with it, and it's not bad, I imagine WP8 is a bit better than 7.8.

    I would be tempted to switch, if I hadn't already bought apps for another platform.

    1. Yet Another Commentard


      "I would be tempted to switch, if I hadn't already bought apps for another platform."

      An interesting observation. I wonder how many users of iOS/Android feel the same. If I had spent a serious amount on iOS apps I'd be reticent to switch away from iOS to any other OS for the same reason. As Apple was in there first in a big way, I wonder how Google has managed to overtake. Is it because it was hitting people who didn't have an iPhone already, or was there some "buy App X on iOS and you get it on Android too" licensing? Not owning either, and having little interest in such things, I wouldn't know.

      But, the thinking for MSFT could be that it cuts a deal with developers to say that if a user bought (say) Angry Birds for iOS they could use the same license to download it to WindowsPhone, cancelling the iOS license. MSFT could pay the devs a subsidy for a while until it had a critical mass of users, which should encourage some positive feedback loop.

      1. MerlynUK

        Re: @GarethPN

        This is certainly a factor when people choose to upgrade their phone. 2 years ago I had an iPhone 3GS which was great when I first got it, I bought a fair amount of Apps which were a mixture of cheapo 69p ones and some more expensive ones such as CoPilot SatNav. However I quickly got bored with the iOS and wanted more customisation options so I jailbreaked and installed a few tweaks. I still wasn't entirely happy however and wanted a bigger screen so when it came time to upgrade I weighed up the investment I had made in iOS Apps against jumping to a new platform. I concluded that apart from the SatNav and a couple of other apps I wasn't too bothered about the others. I estimated it would cost about £25-30 to re-purchase those apps for another platform which I was willing to do so I jumped to Android. As it happened I was able to transfer my CoPilot map licenses across to my android phone, which I wasn't expecting, as they are registered against a CoPilot account and not the phone/platform so I only ended up having to pay about £5-10 to re-purchase a few apps on android.

        My wife on the other hand loved her 3GS so has just upgraded to an iPhone 4S as she has invested heavily in a lot of apps, mainly games to keep the kids occupied, she's not bothered about customisation so it made sense for her to stick with what she knew and had bought into. I expect for most 'casual' users of iPhones this would be the same.

        If App developers made it easy to transfer app licences from one platform to another then I expect a lot more people would at least consider switching platforms but I guess the likes of Apple, Google and Microsoft would want to discourage this for precisely the same reason!

      2. Thomas Whipp

        Re: @GarethPN

        The problem with this is you'd actually need to cut a deal with Apple and Google (who run the stores which track licencing) plus the developers - the chances are Apple/Google would refuse and even if they didnt it would be massively complex to implment and manage.

        A far simpler option would be for MS to bundle say £5 of store credit with each phone (keyed to something like the IMEI for a one time activiation into an MS account). That said I'm not sure this would make much difference to the average buyer.

        I might have spent £50 on apps via Google over the last couple of years - but as they've mostly been £2-£3 purchases of games I've looked on them as mostly a disposable spend. Yes I still have the licence but I dont really play the game much when its finished - with maybe a couple of exceptions.

        The "sticky" apps for me at least tend to be free and linked to a cloud service.

        1. Tom 38

          Re: @GarethPN

          If MS had spent their WinPho marketing budget on giving free apps to users, they might have been on to something. I was thinking more like $50 than $5.

      3. Paul Shirley

        Re: " I wonder how Google has managed to overtake"


        1: they got into the market while large numbers were upgrading to their 1st smartphone. So no lockin to overcome.

        2: a lot of paid apps on iPhone are free on Android, easing the way for iPhone users to switch platform.

        3: iPhone defectors can usually afford to rebuy apps.

        4: Android could be cheap

        Apple artificially limited it's early mover advantage with premium pricing, great for maximising profit, not so good for maximising penetration. That left a lot who could not or would not afford Apple for Google to scoop up.

        Those days are long gone now and Microsoft is too late to the party, they now need to build a better product *that people actually desire* or as Nokia is doing go cheap. Desirable to a niche market isn't enough but that's all they seem to have achieved, with idiotic marketing policies contaminating WP with the widespread antipathy the Windows brand has built up.

      4. Matt_payne666

        Re: @GarethPN

        Co-Pilot allows you to transfer the licence from device to device - you deactiveate one and activate the other.... lovely!!

        Shame that Co-pilot isn't quite upto Nokia Drive+!

        Oh - had my 920 since launch day and love it! I had invested in apps on my iPhone, but decided to make the cut and im well pleased that I did...

    2. terrybear

      Lumia 800 would've been perfect with a 4" screen, it was my all time favorite until the Lumia 925......actually dissed my HTC One for the 925 after comparing ;)

  16. EddieD

    Swings and Roundabouts

    I oscillate in my view on WinPhone - half the time I hate it, I then try the opposition and realise they're all dogs, just with different fleas (Gordon Gecko, iirc).

    In fairness, my Lumia 800 has lasted me trouble free for 18months, it has good call quality, which is what I look for in a phone, the bundled apps are good, and the store now has a reasonable amount of good apps. Will I replace it with another - probably, but not just yet - I'll try and move to a sim-only contract until the 1020 is available...which I'll buy rather than contract.

  17. Rich 2 Silver badge

    Windows Phone

    From what I've seen of it, I actually quite like the user interface of the Windows phone - it does seem genuinely new and quite clever.

    Unfortunately, it's Microsoft (*), and for that reason alone I simply can not bring myself to buy one.

    (*) - ie - it'll crash, it'll be unrealiable, after 6 months it will start grinding to a halt, it will be everything that 'windows' is. I accept that my assessment may well be completely false, but that still won't change my mind, and I suspect I'm not alone in that. MS have screwed-up just too many times.

    1. WP7Mango

      Re: Windows Phone

      Windows Phone doesn't crash. It's faster and more reliable than Android and iOS. It also doesn't slow down over time, contrary to your claim. The reason why it doesn't behave like you expect it to is because apart from the name, it bears no resemblance to previous versions of Windows.

      So, yes your assessment is false. I accept that it won't change your mind, but at least you can drop your false assessment.

      1. Snark

        Re: Windows Phone

        I have to agree, I think my 620 has reset itself a couple of times but nothing regular, literally just that 2 or 3 times in a few months. This was compared to my Android which regularly had even the homescreens crash or freeze, various other weird crashes and resets. Oh and yes, grinding to a halt over time and apps leaving crap all over the memory card when they were deleted. This just seems to... work. It's quite refreshing for a phone to actually work when you pick it up :).

      2. John Sanders

        Re: Windows Phone

        I do not know in which universe do you live, but on mine running Nightly beta builds Android doesn't crash, once on a blue moon I get the odd crap game to stop, but this is the game's fault.

        Winphone is a stoneturd meaning that no matter how good the OS is (not great by the way), you can not change anything on it.

        The more people can do things unexpected by the vendor the more useful the device is to the user base. Microsoft has chosen to stop unexpected before it is born.

        Nokia = Good hardware, too sad it doesn't run an OS people like.

        1. WP7Mango

          Re: Windows Phone

          So that makes iOS an even BIGGER stoneturd than Windows Phone, because iOS allows you to change much less than what you can change on Windows Phone.

        2. Snark

          Re: Windows Phone

          Mine universe has a planet called earth and lots of people on it, sun rises in the morning, it's dark at night. Does that help identify it?

          Seriously, a comment was made regarding stability and I stated my experiences, what is the problem with that? My Android phone runs CM9 and I know it's a little underpowered on the ram front and I experience those issues. My Nexus 7 is more stable, but it has more grunt and more memory. It does however still slowly over time grind to a halt even if I stop as much of the background crap as possible. This includes the lock screen taking forever to get itself together and the home screens to become usable. It's not all the time, it does take some time before this happens, but happen it does. I have not seen this with W8 phone. Your experiences with Android may be different, good for you, but we are also different people and use our devices differently. Just as when I bought into Android I wanted to hear many peoples view to see the range of experiences and get a feel for it, similarly with W8phone its useful to know what problems people are or are not experiencing. Unfortunately I don't see just calling it a stoneturd and bad OS adding much to my understanding of the issues with W8 or what it is that you specifically need or want to do that you cannot. Personally, I don't have any issues with the way the launcher works and don't feel the need to get upset I can't change it - how it is works for me. Is there particular functionality its missing for you? Or do you just want to be able to change it because "you can".

      3. Tom 38

        Re: Windows Phone

        Windows Phone doesn't crash. It's faster and more reliable than Android and iOS. It also doesn't slow down over time…

        Unbiased truths here from the guy named after the OS running on his phone.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. WP7Mango

          Re: Windows Phone

          @Tom 38

          "Unbiased truths here from the guy named after the OS running on his phone."

          Nope - my Nokia Lumia 925 runs Windows Phone 8, not Windows Phone 7.5 (Mango)

          They are in fact totally different. Windows Phone 7.5 was based on the Windows CE Kernel. Windows Phone 8 is based on the NT Kernel.

      4. Shagbag

        Re: Windows Phone doesn't crash

        I had a Lumia with WP7.5 for 3 months and a Mozart 7 for 4 months. In that period both devices froze a handful of times - each resulting in an automatic reboot. I don't know if WP8 is more stable as I couldn't care less. I lost interest in WP when MSFT announced WP7 phones wouldn't be supported by WP8. MSFT = another SONY so forget it.

        The telling statistic from the article is that Nokia accounts for 85% of all WP sales. So Nokia = WP? With Nokia going down the shitter I guess that's where WP will end up as well.

    2. Philippe

      Re: Windows Phone

      My company has taken a similar approach but for different reasons.

      The word is that MS is such a pain to deal with on the PC, we don't want anything to do with them on our phones.

      We support, iOS, Android and even BB OS10 in Canada only but no WindowsPhone allowed.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows Phone

      Ah, the old argument: "My old Windows system is full of crap, slow, crashy, can't really do what I want, etc. etc."... "However this brand new top of the range laptop I've bought to replace it running Mac OS or Linux is super speedy only has the software I want on it and never crashes."

      Do you see why there may be some observation bias in saying that the problem is Windows?

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    don't do it

    it's shockingly bad

    terrible battery life on the 920

    bing everywhere. ffs bing! the ecosystem is poisionous.

    apps forsaken by everyone, no revenue for those poor WP devs

    it just needs to die. nokia needs a different approach, as the market rejects WP.

    put them in the same hole with all the surface pros, rts, zunes, etc

    1. Anonymous Coward

      Re: don't do it

      Eadon, that you?

      My 920's battery lasts me two days if I don't thrash it, well over a day even if I do. Well up there with most modern smartphones.

      Bing is the default on the search button, but it's easy to change in-browser searching to Google.

      Sure, some apps aren't making money, some are. It's undoubtedly a smaller market, but then again it's easier to stand out in a smaller market if you're good enough. I would agree that not all apps are that great though, there are some buggy or incomplete versions of some apps that are more mature on other platforms.

      The market isn't rejecting WP, it's rejecting BB - WP is growing in most markets, some of them quite strongly, albeit growth is next to non-existent in the US which keeps drinking the iPhone Kool-Aid

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: don't do it

      "nokia needs a different approach, as the market rejects WP."

      Erm - but Lumia sales are growing by over 30% a quarter....And they havnt even launched their flagship 41MP phone properly yet...

  19. The Jase

    I have an old HTC 7 Pro. Yeah, its heavy, yeah the battery drains quickly when on t'internet, but I like having a full keyboard.

    Apps wise, it could be better, but as WinPhone gets better market penetration, this will improve.

  20. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Good sales in UK and France?

    Looks like Orange has been doing a good job then (can't be O2 or Vodafone as the Lumias are virtually invisible here in Germany). Probably still not sufficient volume for Nokia to be really happy but it's a start. Of course, if the majority really are the low margin phones then Nokia is not going to be able to survive, though the ODM actually making the phones might.

  21. WP7Mango

    I put my hand up!!!

    I have a Nokia Lumia 925 and it's pretty awesome actually, especially the camera. I've got rid of my point-and-shoot camera now because it's no longer needed.

    I do like the Windows Phone 8 operating system. It's a big improvement over WP7.5 or WP7.8 which I had on my Nokia Lumia 800. I have all the apps I need and thoroughly enjoy using the phone. Most of my family have Nokia Lumias too.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not reality.

    Looking at what people are using on the street, it's 1 in 100.

    What Kantar Worldpanel is, is a SURVEY, not based on ACTUAL sales. Who wants to guess they stood outside Phones4U (who seem really desperate of late to shift Windows Phone failures).

  23. hi_robb


    My arms are staying down.

    I'll only put my hand up for kinky sex.

    /get coat

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "fastest growing BS"

    Obligatory XKCD :

    1. John Sanders

      Re: "fastest growing BS"


  25. ToggleMaudlin

    I like mine.

    I've been using a Lumia 800 for just shy of 18 months and I'm pretty happy with it. Some minor niggles aside (marketplace is unfriendly rubbish interface-wise, having a better task manager and a notification centre would be nice) it does everything I want it to: good call quality, passable battery, great maps functionality and a friendly interface.

    I'm open-minded about what I'll go for next. I quite like the look of the HTC One, but I was burned by the Desire before - I hated Sense, the handset was ugly and the battery life was appalling. I'll have a play with one and if I don't get on with it I'll go for a 920 or a 925.

  26. Stephen Channell

    My Dell WinPhone is indestructible

    Came with WinPhone 7.0, got better with 7.5 auto-update, and looks fine with 7.8. Been dropped several times over two years, but curved glass/case ensured no breakage.. best £100 phone I’ve had.

    The one niggle is the internet tethering, that has to use USB (because Dell went for the first chipset).. Next time, I’m going back to Nokia

  27. uphoriak


    A neighbour of ours got one of the new Luminas recently (925 I think) and absolutely loves it. She's your "joe public" type of user, not a geek, but being in her mid-30s technology literate. She's used iOS, a variety of Android phones, and says this is her favourite so far.

    After using it myself for a bit, I have to say I do like the Windows 8 mobile OS a lot. It's clean, quick, stylish, and if I wasn't holding out for the iPhone 5S to replace my knackered iPhone 4, then the Lumina would probably be the phone I'd get.

    I can't be arsed to spend hours tinkering around with configuration on a phone, I have desktop machines to do that with, and although I own an Android device I've never really found the OS my cup of tea or "fun" to use.

  28. jason 7

    Let me see....

    Here is my Nexus 4 and what do I use most -


    Outlook Mail



    BBC News

    News 360

    Twitter (Occasionally)



    Wi-Fi Analyzer


    Thats from around 125 apps I have installed (all the usual suspects but no Angry Birds or Temple Run) some others are used occasionally. I bet I'm pretty common in my usage pattern. No I really don't need 2 million apps. Especially when 90% of the usage worldwide is from probably around 20 of them.

    I will trim the apps down to the minimum soon, maybe when I get round to slapping Key Lime Pie on it.

  29. Dan Wilkinson
    Thumb Up

    They're OK for some stuff

    During a company wide phone refresh I was provided with a wide choice of phones spanning the middle tier of handsets from Sony, Samsung and Nokia. Whilst many went for the Galaxys because of the three they have the most 'cachet', a few others went for the Xperia as it had the nicest looking (on paper) screen. All very shallow choices. Very few went for the Lumia (820 in this instance), but I did.

    We use exchange at work, the only thing I really want to be any good that I will be using daily (other than actual phone calls) in exchange sync, calendars, mails, and handling mail attachments with occasional potential for editing word docs etc. Regardless of which phone has the best apps, which has the cleverest features for doing ridiculous things with photos and music etc, when this is your primary use case, there seems no reason for anything other than an MS OS on your handset when you are an MS shop at work. As a result, I love it for what I use it for, and it's a nice tight focussed device once you remove all the Nokia crapware, even though I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole as a personal phone.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My 2p worth

    Had an HTC Trophy for 2 1/2 years now. Been rock solid and quite easy and nice to use. Only downside ?

    NO APPS ?

  31. DrXym

    It's okay

    Windows Phone is a simple to use smart phone and is very slick. It's just not as feature rich as Android in numerous ways (e.g. background tasks / multitasking, customizability), and the app store is a total joke.

  32. Sam Adams the Dog

    Can't you just call it?

    @Vociferous "the only way to access the phone from another devices is via the worst, most insultingly poorly designed and misfeatured, piece of software I've ever had inflicted on me"

    You mean you can't just call it?

  33. PaulR79
    Thumb Down

    MS in no rush.... only hurting themselves

    It still puzzles me why they bothered pushing out WInPho 8 when they haven't bothered to do any big marketing or push out updates and / or any kind of improvements to it. There are a few main areas they need to improve on vastly (music player, multitasking, keyboard to name 3) and a lot of small tweaks they could make. Unfortunately anyone that owns a WP handset has no idea when or if these will be worked on.

    It feels like MS have adopted the old Nokia stance on updates where you never knew if your phone was getting an update and even if you did have an update available it rarely did anything you would care about. It also feels like MS are treating WP in general as some big experiment to see just how little effort they can put into something without it blowing up massively in their faces. It's very frustrating to see especially when WP is rather good in general use.

  34. sandman

    Another W8 household

    Looking for a reasonable deal on a new phone when my iPhone 3GS started dying, I ended up with an HTC 8X. I find it preferable to my work supplied iPhone 5. Herself went for a Lumia 620. We're both very happy with our phones, they work well and the OS makes iOS and Android look and feel rather, well, 20th Century. OK, I have some apps that I can't port across (ditto some music, bastard, bastard DRM), but otherwise the transition was fine.

    It always entertains me when any piece of tech gets criticised by the sad juveniles who have either never used it, just have an irrational hatred of it (or the company who produces it) or who's experience is dated and irrelevant (or any combination thereof). I would suggest they grow up (or get a life), but that would seem just a touch unlikely.

    1. Paul Shirley

      Re: Another W8 household

      It's not irrational to hate Microsoft. Bug ridden Microsoft software has wasted my time in the 70's,80's,90's,00's and Win8 is currently bringing it's daily dose of disappointment in the 10's. 30+ years watching their abusive business practices also gives some perspective.

      Hardly juvenile either, though appropriate when I fought Microsoft BASICs many problems back in the 70's.

  35. Sporkinum

    I don't own the phone I use. It's a work provided Blackberry. I don't think it has had an update in over 2 years. Works well enough for me though. Wife has a prepaid Sanyo Mirro flip phone. Even though it does web and other stuff, she only uses it as a phone.

  36. MikeOxlong

    I'm liking all my Windows Phones

    I'm really pleased with the performance of my Nokia 620 windows phone. It's a great little camera for happy snapping. Its also a great free turn by turn sat nav. (all the free maps of Europe anyone) Email is functional, and I can open word, excel or powerpoint files, as well as PDF's.

    It also uploads all my photo's to my skydrive account, so they are backed up straight away.

    I don't use much out of the App store myself, but I know my son does on his winphone as well.

    He wanted one after seeing and using mine, and loves it.

    I also had an older Nokia 800 winphone that the screen broke on. That was great, and I managed to replace the screen myself for about £40.

    I think it's like anything. if you are in a product stable (Google / Android, or Apple, or Microsoft/Nokia) for many services, then it makes sense to keep and use the products that integrate with the ones you already have, and use.

    To me, the match with Nokia and Microsoft was a good combination.

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I have only one objection to WP8:

    I am a tight fisted person who replaces phones as rarely as possible. When I do, I tend to buy what I consider to be the most future proof model. This tends to work out at an average spend of around £120 a year on phones, which I consider acceptable, especially when the old ones can be passed on.

    Nokias used to be wonderful things on which you replace batteries and cases with ease. I have put new batteries in ancient ones and passed them to people who just wanted a dumbphone+text. The WP8 Nokias look to be disposable after a year or so, and the small amount of RAM and lack of expansion suggests that there is no future proofing built in - at some point in a relatively short timescale they are likely to be unable to run an OS upgrade. Just like early Androids, in fact.

    Nokia lost a sale when the 920 turned out to be a huge brick with unremarkable battery life, no expansion, locked in battery and tiny RAM. I suspect that the villain in the piece lives in or near Redmond.

    I'm sad that BlackBerry is going down the toilet, because the BB 10 models look as though they should be good for several years both of use and software upgrades. But they are currently stuck between cheap and expensive, with nothing that anybody would buy in the middle ground.

  38. MIc

    The basics

    Why don't we discuss the basics more as opposed to raw features.

    For example how easy or fast it is to post to Facebook, or find an app, or make a call.

    Seems like we only focus on a check list of features and not whether or not a device is any good at the things all smartphones do, because they are core to the experience.

    1. Paul Shirley

      Re: The basics

      I believe you meant to type 'how fast it is to uninstall the Facebook crapp' ;)

      By and large any recent smartphone is good enough at the 'things phones do' that it doesn't merit mentioning. It's no longer a differentiator.

      Orlowski used to endlessly bang on about the supposed superiority of WP7's people hub/unified messaging (or whatever it's called). Even he's given up flogging that dead horse, WP wasn't first with the idea and some of us don't find the implementation or concept superior anyway. Where software's involved your idea of 'working well' may be radically different to mine.

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Staunch Nokia / Windows fan

    I love my lumia 920.

    Its a great piece of kit. Battery life is generally 2 days ( I have all background programs off!).

    Fab camera, some good apps, some GREAT apps and some utter dog eggs...

    Windows phone 8 is slick, smooth and generally a joy to use. Not without issues mind, poor text editing /copy/paste etc.

    Poor SMS grouping options (unless i'm doing it wrong).

    No FM tuner!! Coming in an update soon apparently. TuneIn App claims to have support for it. It doesn't.

    linked media/ringer volume!?!?!? Design Fail at basic level there guys!!

    Great screen, nicely weighted, good flash, good phone..Clear audio in and out.

    Great product nay-sayed by a load of non-users...

  40. ted frater

    Despite the wide choice of handset makers and their various offerings,

    I still havnt found a new phone to meet my needs, even tho I can afford just about any of them.

    I just cant understand why the makers havnt analysed the many different types of usersand cater for the wildly different needs out there.

    For example, on one side theres the office worker, whose enviroment is generally quiet, clean, and weather proof, On the other side theres the, lets say the blue collar worker, out in the wet,or noisy, dirty world for whom the office type handset would be quite unsuitable.

    Anyone in the latter category, using say a digger or lathe or other machinery, has to concentrate on what he is doing, and doesnt want any of the smart phone features when hes at work.

    What he does want is,

    A good loud ring, a good loud speaker, a bright screen, a foldable design like clamshell or flip phone, so when in his overalls the screen and a PROPER full sized Querty keyboard is protected, a big batttery, , a solid tough case that will withstand a lot of dropping or misuse and waterproof.

    Well, theres not one made . If there was Id have found it. And dont suggest the Blabkberry as the k/board is just for 5yr olds.

    I ran a survey recently amongst a lot of people I know who use a dumb phone. I asked why havnt you upgraded to a big screen smart set?

    The answer without exception was that it didnt do what their existing set would do, and they dont like the glass keyboards.

    In addition there is an older age group who grew up without mobile phones or the internet, whos learning was done from the written work in books.

    Those books had the format of black type on white paper, with an index at the beginning with a list of what in each chapter.

    Now Nokia designed their 9210i communicator around this layout, for the business user. And it works a treat.

    Can you get this layout with android? I dont think so , nor WinP 8 or on the Iphone.

    I do dispair of the handset makers for their lack of innovation for the market differences.

    Shame really, there missing out on a lot of customers.

    As in so many other walks of life, one size doesnt fit all.

    Frustrated in Dorset.

    1. spiny norman

      That's not Cool

      The aim for manufacturers of most consumer technology is to appear "cool" and appeal to the 18-30 demographic. It's odd, because that student/post-student/mortgage/starting-a-family period isn't one I associate with having much spare cash, but I'm sure they know what they're doing.

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    "Lumia is still a rounding error in the United States."

    Is this the new way Apple are describing patent violations?

  42. Cornholio

    Got my Lumia 925 last week...

    ...after being impressed with a friend's 920. I really like it, but then again it has replaced a creaky old Android 2.1 Orange San Fransisco (ZTE Blade).

    The only thing that is bugging me at the moment is the way that the keyboard doesn't pop up when I hit the search button. Maybe I need to change a setting somewhere, but it is a pain to have to press the search button AND then tap the Bing search bar at the top of the screen before I can start typing.

    Otherwise, it is a very fluid OS. It seems to require less horsepower than equivalent Android devices. I'm sure my quad-core Nexus 7 isn't quite as smooth as my dual-core Lumia 925.

    Then again, I've never claimed to know anyting about phones. I just really want something that is good for making calls and texting, and the excellent (for a phone) camera on the 925 is a bonus for me. Looking forward to Nokia Pro Camera arriving with the Amber update!

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