US town mulls bounty on spy drones, English-speaking gunman only In back-woods America the government isn't too popular, but the tiny town of Deer Trail, Colorado (population 546 – deer not included) may be taking this sentiment to extremes with a proposal to open an official hunting season on government drones. "We do not want drones in town," said the proposed ordinance's author David …
From the US EPA webpage on Depleted Uranium Projectiles
"Be Informed -- Although DU poses little risk when outside the body, DU has about as much toxicity as other heavy metals, like lead. Because DU can cause kidney or other damage if inhaled, ingested in large amounts or at high velocity, it should be avoided by humans and animals."
Well, more or less. Still, how quaint.
I'd stear clear if your ethnicity is anything but white, you regularly wrap a towel on your head after a shower, wear a long dressing gown, are in a same sex relationship, vote liberal, wear sandals, have a beard, read the Guardian, drive a foreign car.....
There is probably a 'symbolic' ordinance for that but you are as likely to get shot for it as you would knocking on a door and asking for directions in the dark.
The folks out there are familiar with hunting, even things that fly in the air (birds), so don't worry about their safety from falling shot. In any case, it comes down a lot slower than it went up, due to air resistance and the relatively small attraction of gravity (compared to the initial powder charge).
"In any case, it comes down a lot slower than it went up, due to air resistance and the relatively small attraction of gravity (compared to the initial powder charge)."
Gravity is not "small" by any definition - it brings the bullet down despite the initial velocity provided by the powder charge, and there is no escaping it, even with a more powerful charge. The only relevant thing to deceleration is air resistance - without it the bullet would come down at exactly the same velocity as the one it left the barrel with.
A bullet does decelerate significantly due to air resistance. However, even the terminal velocity is such that if a falling bullet hits you on your head you will be either dead or very lucky indeed.
Actually it happened on a military base where I was serving many years ago, after a sentry fired a waning shot into the air. IIRC, the sentry followed the protocol, but the bullet hit a completely innocent person quite far away. Fatally.
".....Gravity is not "small" by any definition - it brings the bullet down despite the initial velocity provided by the powder charge...." True, but anyone that has been in many areas of France or Spain during the hunting season will be quite familiar with the patter of spent shot falling around them. Compared to the Yanks, the Spanish and Fwench are much less constrained in their hunting and think nothing of blasting at anything winged, even around built-up areas. I've been hit by spent shot whilst sitting outside without anything worse than a slight mark to the skin. True, bullets would be a different matter, but anyone I suspect most drone-hunters will stick to shot loadings.
"Actually it happened on a military base where I was serving many years ago, after a sentry fired a waning shot into the air. IIRC, the sentry followed the protocol, but the bullet hit a completely innocent person quite far away. Fatally."
In several countries, firing "warning shots" into the air will see you jailed.
Warning shots go into soft ground or are done with blanks. Anything else is terminally stupid.
(Now consider that a "pass" for armed police at UK airports is a 30% hit rate, when given indefniite time to aim and are allowed to use anything onhand to steady the shot.)
However, even the terminal velocity is such that if a falling bullet hits you on your head you will be either dead or very lucky indeed.
That'll be one of those "busted" myths. The Mythbusters shot bullets vertically into the air and measured the force on impact when they came down again[1]. Sting a bit? Possibly. Kill you? Not a chance.
All the "bullet fell out of the air and killed someone" stories must involve bullets that were fired on a parabolic trajectory (i.e. not straight up) and retained a significant proportion of their original forward momentum on impact (i.e. it's always someone, as you put it, "quite far away").
[1] Derive terminal velocity (bullet stationary in vertical airstream), calculate force of bullet of mass X impacting at that speed. Simple. Fire bullets vertically and ensure that falling bullets penetrate soft ground the same amount as bullets given the calculated terminal velocity to prove results.
The only relevant thing to deceleration is air resistance - without it the bullet would come down at exactly the same velocity as the one it left the barrel with.
False. Terminal velocity of a 00 pellet is much lower than the 1400fps muzzle velocity of a 12ga shotgun. It would be so even in a vacuum.
However, even the terminal velocity is such that if a falling bullet hits you on your head you will be either dead or very lucky indeed.
For bullets, yes. I'm not so sure about shot. Following a certain famous formula, the energy (which equates lethality) depends partially upon the mass of the object. Even a .223 round (the smallest bullet the sentry in your example could possibly have been using) has a great deal more mass than a buckshot pellet. Also, due to better aerodynamics, a conical bullet would probably fall significantly faster than a spherical pellet.
To put all this in perspective, if you got hit by a penny falling at terminal velocity you'd likely need a couple stitches and have a headache for a few days. I would suspect that falling buckshot would result in slightly more significant injuries (it would be falling faster but has less mass), but you'd be exceedingly unlikely to catch more than one. Even when fired from a gun a single pellet of buckshot is rarely fatal, and when they are it's because they've hit a major artery.
All that said, it'd be exceedingly unpleasant to be on the receiving end of falling buckshot.
Why not give people permits to shoot down mosquitoes?
There will be something to shoot at, it will be a true test of skill, it will be marginally useful if it works, and a lot of science and technology will be required to ascertain the kills, meaning that the town could attract some quality, educated people instead of just good ol'boys. Who knows, it could lead to an explosion in development and turn the town into a large city and a technology powerhouse.
"This is a very symbolic ordinance," said Steel. "Basically, I do not believe in the idea of a surveillance society, and I believe we are heading that way."
Do they not get the news in backwoods America? "heading that way"... Really...
Can one of you Americans call them up and tell them you're already way past "heading that way", so they don't go making themselves look silly to the world with statements like that again.
Thomas Pink is a shirtmaker in London. I didn't know they sold Barbours, but it wouldn't be surprising. You can buy Pink shirts, ties, socks, underwear etc, with no requirement that any of it is pink.
Maybe this is what he's on about. If so, it's well on the unsplit side of side-splitting.
Typical backwoods American tongue in cheek humor combined with the entrepreneurial spirit.
Obviously, from the way the law is worded, they don't expect anyone to actually try to shoot down a drone. (Seriously, down an aircraft at 1000 yards with birdshot?)
This is just their way of telling the Federalistas what they think of the way they're running the affairs of state.
Plus, it helps their little burg get national attention, and maybe even raise a little revenue,
Hell, I might just scrape up the $100.00 bucks to buy a permit just to show my support.
ROCK ON, Deertrail, you crazy bastards! You've certainly livened the start of my weekend!
A shotgun has an effective kill range of a soft target of about 300 feet (100 yards) horizontal, 1/3 of that vertical due to gravity.
Drones are not soft targets, they are designed to fly at high altitudes AND are designed to withstand small arms fire. Even if one were 100ft from the ground you would have trouble causing crippling damage to one with a shotgun.
FYI, Deer Trail is not by any means "backwoods", its a rich fart community where people pay big bucks for land to make them fell like they are living in the mountains, when in fact they barely qualify for the foothills.
The Muzzel velocity of a shotgun is around 1300 ft/sec or 395 m/sec, gravity is 9.8m/s/s, however air resistance is much more difficult to calculate, as it's variable.
You require a projectile velocity of between 140 & 200 ft/sec ( 42 & 61 m/sec) to break the skin.
The effective range of a shotgun, depending on shot type is 25 - 150 yards or 22.5 to 137 meters. The longest ranges are for single slugs.
So, I doubt you would get close to a drone, but you could severely piss off your neighbour's kid by shooting down his radio controlled aircraft.
BTW some drones look a whole lot like toy helicopters.
Dave Bowman: What's the problem?
HAL: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.
Dave Bowman: What are you talking about, HAL?
HAL: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.
Dave Bowman: I don't know what you're talking about, HAL.
HAL: I know that you and Frank were planning to shoot me down, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.
" I hope some fool shoots one down and goes to prison for 5 years. We'll see how they like that punishment. The FAA has already warned these clowns what is in store if they shoot at a drone or a normal aircraft.
"
The FAA regulates the use of navigable airspace as a public resource, and the navigable airspace is defined to start at 500 feet altitude. Below that height, the airspace is owned by the land owner and the FAA has no regulation over it.
"There is, however, one small problem. No one has ever seen a government drone flying over the town. 'This is a very symbolic ordinance,' said Steel. '"Basically, I do not believe in the idea of a surveillance society, and I believe we are heading that way'."
Obviously if Deer Trail wants to actually do something about surveillance other than simply engage in publicity stunts that make themselves look like drooling inbred hilljacks, they need to expand their little ordinance to permit people to attack Google Streetview Cars with Improvised Explosive Devices (or RPG's if obtainable).
There is no reason why drones can't be armed to fire on anyone attempting to shoot at them. Just think of the surprise the rednecks would get if when they raise their rifle to fire at a drone, it shoots their arse? Be careful what you ask for people because you may get it. There is no God given right to shoot any any aircraft, manned or not.
I think this is a great idea.
I would also like to propose another idea - armoured drone competitions.
You build a drone, fly it around Deer Trail, and if you can get it back to your landing strip you win. If it gets shot down, you lose.
The more armor you put on, the less manoeuverable etc. so there is a balance here. I think a new sport has just been born!
is OK by the legislators and the fruitcakes who belong to the NRA.
American values are so screwed up but the worst thing is they try to foist their ways to to the rest of the world.
Guess there will be a new sport. Out with clay shooting and in with drone shooting.
When I first started reading this story, I thought that Deer Trail, CO, must be up in the northwest part of Colorado, one of the seven or eleven or thirteen counties that have proposed seceding from the State of Colorado and forming a new state of North Colorado or some such thing... The NW Coloradans are upset because of some of the legislation passed recently by the state legislature and signed by the governor... Legislation that would REQUIRE background checks for gun purchases among other basic things.
So many legal and safety issues with this:
1) Bullets come down and can be fatal. This might not be the most populous area but still something most people do not consider
2) Bubba and Ray Ray will open fire on any GA aircraft leading to 1
3) Destruction of federal property
4) Interfering with Police/Military operations
Enjoy your prison time drone hunters
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