Nokia tears wrapper off Lumia 1020 monster imaging mobe

Nokia brought its unique home-brewed imaging technology to a modern smartphone today. By a comfortable distance, the new Lumia 1020, aka "EOS", has the most impressive camera and video recording on any mobile phone today. We also had a tool around with the prototype at the New York launch today, which confirmed that Nokia has …

[ThomH]

Fantastic work on slimming it down

Based on the unwieldy 808 I expected the phone to fall uncomfortably between two stools — lacking both the convenience of any other phone and the image quality of a full camera*. It seems they've resolved the first issue. Good work, Nokia.

(*) having been asked to cite sources on my previous assertion, here's one: http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Mobiles/Column-right/Mobile-rating — "However, the PureView’s small exposure troubles in high contrast images, and its very slight color casting and color shading flaws in outdoor settings illustrate that the smartphone is not perfect – cellphone and tablet cameras still have a lot to accomplish to meet the quality of the best DSCs."

[Mark Jan]

Re: Fantastic work on slimming it down

I've had the N808 for about a year and I disagree, it's not unwieldy at all. It's actually positively svelte compared to, for example the iphone wrapped in the "protective" case most people wrap around theirs.

[Andrew Orlowski]

Re: Re: Fantastic work on slimming it down

I agree, the 808 is top heavy but it's quite slim. It will go places a phone with a 4.5" or 5" display won't go. Phnarr.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Fantastic work on slimming it down

Phones never catch up DSLRs and compacts since they are always improving too.

But a phone like the 1020 will be comparable to compacts of a few years ago.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sweet camera

I've already got a good phone, but I'd like to see the price of this without a phone contract. It could make a helluva good wifi-connected camera/video camera.

[MIc]

but it doesn't have instagram so what are they going to do with all those nice pictures?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really much point taking good pictures only to destroy them with stylised filters.

[Stephen Clifford]

Instagram

It does have Instagram - just not the official client but still a very good unofficial one with 'Instance'.

[dogged]

Sadly, it does. link

There is no escape.

[Anomalous Cowshed]

Go get them Nokia

And keep trying to innovate in order to get back in there so that we all benefit!

[Dazzz]

Nice, can we have a symbian or maemo version please?

[EddieD]

Hmm.

My contract on an 800 expires on Aug26.

Hmm, indeed

[Piro]

There we go, they finally have a compelling product

That actually can compete with their older PureView on Symbian.

Just a shame it'll be AT&T exclusive in the US, and then there's the fact it only comes with Windows Mobile.

I'm sure whoever ends up with will be chuffed to their bollocks with such a nice camera, though.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: There we go, they finally have a compelling product

Don't confuse a good camera with a good cameraphone.

Whilst Microsoft and Nokia will pretend its a replacement for a proper camera, and offer up loads of fake images and hype, it's no way a replacement for a proper camera.

It will also suck as a phone, as it's Windows Phone based.

True jack of all trades master of none, with a barren appstore, garish plasticy look and OS bugs a plenty, with a pricetag to make you cry.

When you can pick up a Nexus4 and a 4/3 DSLR for less money, and neither suck, why would you want one?

[Piro]

Re: There we go, they finally have a compelling product

I'm not confusing anything, but it's clear that in the form factor, this is a pretty good sensor.

It also has a phone bolted to it which some may enjoy, yes, some like Windows Phone, and are put off by the freedom of Android.

It's not for me, but my point totally stands. For the person that ends up with this, they'll be happy with the nice camera.

[Dave 126]

Re: There we go, they finally have a compelling product

Micro 4/3 cameras are not DSLRs, Mr Photography Expert AC.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: There we go, they finally have a compelling product

The only practical difference is they don't have viewfinders (so no mirror or prism), they have screens instead. But that's just photography snobbery. They have the same APS-C sensors, and will be infintely better at taking pictures than the Nokia FrankenPhone.

I have both. I have a NEX-5R and a Canon 60D, and I would choose the NEX5r Every time. It's got better Fast Hybrid AF, and focuses faster (will focus every shot at 10FPS)

Whatever, any DSLR, 4:3 or compact will make this Frakenphone look crap by comparison. The megapixel is a headline grabbing number, nothing more.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: There we go, they finally have a compelling product

"It will also suck as a phone, as it's Windows Phone based."

You should try it - it's much better to use than the other 3 main options - Android, IOS or BB10.

[Mark Jan]

Replace N808

I have the N808 and was half considering replacing it with the new EOS or 1020 as we now know it's called.

BUT, my N808 takes a micro SD card, has USB on the go / out, HDMI out, FM transmitter etc.

And it uses an OS I actually like with a decent battery life.

I don't think I'll be changing - sorry Nokia, you should have stayed with being masters of your own destiny.

[Bad Beaver]

Re: Replace N808

I'm torn, for all the points you just made. I see they did some nice things with the 1020 but it STILL falls short of the 808 in terms of useful features.

[Dave 126]

Re: Replace N808

As far as I can make out the 1020 has USB OTG, but can anyone confirm this?

[Mark Jan]

Re: Replace N808

My mistake - just checked the specs again and the 1020 does have USB on the go.

I'm sure it wasn't on the spec sheet yesterday!

[Len Goddard]

No memory card, fixed battery

My first thought was that here was a phone with the potential to replace my trusty Canon G9 for casual use when I'm not lugging around a full-size camera. But without swappable memory cards and a way of replacing the battery without having to leave the thing charging it becomes impractical.

Shame.

[Stephen Clifford]

Re: No memory card, fixed battery

You can buy in additional 'Camera Grip' for the phone which makes it more 'Camera-like' and includes a jack for a tripod stand.

The Camera holder though also doubles up as a spare battery for it. http://www.nokia.com/gb-en/accessories/accessory/pd-95g/

[James Hughes 1]

Re: No memory card, fixed battery

I agree about the battery - the 808 is really easy to change. But this new one already has a LOAD of storage so not sure why you would need an SD card slot.

[dogged]

Re: No memory card, fixed battery

Seriously? You take more than 32GB of photos without uploading?

Nobody else in the world does

[Tapeador]

Re: No memory card, fixed battery

I dunno, 32gb will give, oh, 700-800 shots at full resolution? Please don't tell me that's what you take in a day of casual use! Yes I suppose the battery might run out some way before the max. Then there is the clip-on battery/camera grip to help. And there are a lot of 'mobile external battery' products on the market which could extend things further. Plus Nokia have always been the masters of super-long battery life - I'd be surprised if they'd given that up just by going Windows.

[Stacy]

Re: No memory card, fixed battery

Whilst I have never seen a phone that I would consider as a replacement for either of my cameras, 32GB including OS, apps, music, videos is not even close to enough to consider using the phone as a camera.

When I take my 5D to something like the Assen TT I generally fill all 32GB of my memory cards.

My phone has a 8GB + a 64GB SD card in it. I have 27GB free with the music I've uploaded and the apps that have been installed.

On this phone I wouldn't be able to store my music, let alone my music and the pictures the phone can take.

Because you can't fill the remnants of the 32GB with pictures doesn't mean that an enthusiastic photographer can't.

[Mark .]

Re: No memory card, fixed battery

True, but it seems the problem there isn't the photos, but the music and videos and apps, and hence this is an argument that goes against other SD-less phones too - the Nexuses (which have 16GB max) and all the iphones.

I think phones should have SD cards, but I don't think having a great camera makes it more of a problem.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: No memory card, fixed battery

What kind of person finds the lack of SD card slot a deal breaker? Someone who drops megabucks on one of the most expensive phones available but skimps on data plan and refuses to pay for cloud storage. I can only think of trust funder pre-payout with indulgent present buying parents, serial competition enterer or thief.

[Stacy]

Re: No memory card, fixed battery

I have one of the best packages available in NL. 2gb fair use. Tell me: just how is that supposed to replace a 64gb data card! And what when I visit the UK and pay roaming details? Or when I'm at the TT and there is no data coverage for the weekend?

A data contract is no substitute for removable media. And this phone is trying to replace a camera. Cameras need removable storage...

And no it's nothing against windows phone 8 - this is being written on an 820. And yes I picked the 820 over the 920 because I could add the 64gb card for my music :)

[Tim 69]

Re: No memory card, fixed battery

I don't really understand why people get hung up on not having an SD card. The usable image files are around 5-8MP so not particularly large, and even when using an (admittedly older) 10MP camera, I was able to take nearly 4,000 JPEGs (shooting sport so machine gun mode) on 16GB of memory cards over a week and still have spare capacity. And with a decent data package, you have no issues with uploading to as many services as you like for protection.

Unless you are trying to use it like an iPod classic, 32GB is still a lot of storage. As for WinPho8? It's okay as a GUI, has its issues like all phone OSs and as long as it works as a phone and a camera (which there is no reason to suspect otherwise) then I'd be fine with it.

Even no replaceable battery isn't a deal breaker, although given the drain on the combined phone and camera if you use it heavily, it's possibly going to require intraday charging. Having said that, I found the Lumia 920 to comfortably hold 24 hours of charge even using 4G.

I think a lot of people get upset about certain aspects of phone design that make a lot less difference to the average user (and most power users) than they would like to admit.

[Anonymous Coward]

Overkill perhaps?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hardly. Without having an optical zoom you need tons of megapixels.

[Matt Piechota]

EOS, eh?

I wonder if Canon might have something to say about EOS, given that it's billed as a camera.

[Eguro]

As someone who bought his current - rather old - Nokia primarily because I needed a cheap-ish phone that could do nice (enough) pictures, this phone seem like a great idea.

I realise it's not cheap-ish - however I am not as poor these days either :)

[Anonymous Coward]

Please define your acronyms!

If anyone else is wondering, apparently EOS stands for Electro-Optical System. As a scientist, it's one of my pet peeves to be confronted with undefined acronyms!

[Paul Westerman]

Re: Please define your acronyms!

IIRC, it's basically a backronym and they named if after Eos, the goddess of the dawn. It's not a good one is it, It's a very dull phrase and doesn't even mention the autofocus, which was the big deal when the 650 first came out. Still got mine, works perfectly!

[James 51]

Always said that if nokia released a phone with the sensor of the 808 and the lens of the 920 I'd be tempted...

[Zola]

Lovely hardware engineering

Just a huge shame it has Windows Phone as an OS - anything else and I'd be buying this in a heartbeat.

Nokia can innovate as much as they like on the hardware side, but it will never make up for the fact it's running a Microsoft OS - we all know the grief that entails.

Call me a bigot, biased, a fanboi or whatever, but that's how it is nowadays - any association with Microsoft is a major turn-off. This phone will win Nokia some sales, but it's not likely to turn their fortunes around.

Also interesting to note that Nokia have effectively forked (fragmented) Windows Phone today with their custom imaging SDK (deep hardware integration) which they released along with this phone. I bet Microsoft are loving that (not).

[Martin 47]

Re: Lovely hardware engineering

Your a bigot, biased fanboi.......

Although so am I

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Lovely hardware engineering

Windows Phone isn't that bad. It's a damn sight easier to use than Android and Sense on the HTC One I replaced my Lumia 920 with.

It's just that Microsoft are copying the iOS approach of simplicity and lack of features. The big thing that got me onto an Android phone was replaceable keyboards and being able to block certain numbers (PPI calls, Virgin Media sales calls etc..).

I've had Windows Mobile phones, Windows Phone 7 and 8, Two iPhones and now an Android phone. So I know the merits of each. This 1020 will be a great device for many people, but people who obsess about phone features, gimmicks and being able to "hack" their phone won't like it.

It would be nice to see an Android version with a Nokia designed camera app.

[Anonymous Coward]

Replaceable keyboards was a feature that would make you want to switch os really........i find when I mess with my OS desktop a lot using "open" programs I come up disappointed in the end seems to me that's similar to how I feel about android, it's a cool novelty but in the end its second rate to the defaults created by professionals in terms of overall aesthetics and use with ios or windows phone.

[Kristian Walsh]

Re: Lovely hardware engineering

"This phone will win Nokia some sales, but it's not likely to turn their fortunes around."

It's not intended to. This is a niche model, but it's a niche that can command a good price. The two models that will do the business for Nokia financially will be the 925 and 520.

"Also interesting to note that Nokia have effectively forked (fragmented) Windows Phone today with their custom imaging SDK (deep hardware integration) which they released along with this phone. I bet Microsoft are loving that (not)."

They didn't "fork" or "fragment" WIndows Phone. They provided a better imaging SDK than Microsoft's, and one that will work on any Windows 8 device. Windows Phone 8 has a small set of supported SoCs, so this isn't a difficult task: Nokia's differentiation is in sensor and optics, not in the image processing hardware. The quality of the images might be better on Nokia devices because of Nokia's better hardware, but the capabilities offered in the API will be available on all devices. And I'd imagine Microsoft are pretty happy about this - it's development that they now don't have to do, and it makes their platform more attractive for people wanting to write camera or video applications. It's a level of co-operation that Google have yet to show their partners: they'll let you fix their bugs, sure, but just try getting a new feature in...

[Cliff]

41 Megapixies, blimey technology moves along. I remember an old Sony Ericsson with an add on camera thingy which would produce a miserable smudge of a photo, this is clearly several cuts above.

It must be tough being Nokia, once undisputed ruler of the mobile market and now playing catchup - but it's devices like this that might make the difference and tempt me back to them.

[Richard Plinston]

Previously I had wondered why Panasonic kept quiet about their LUMIX trademark when LUMIA is so close and both ranges have cameras and phones.

Now it seems that Nokia are using EOS which has been a Canon trademark form many years.

[dogged]

They're not using EOS. It was a codename for preproduction.

[Richard Plinston]

> They're not using EOS. It was a codename for preproduction.

They're not using EOS.

They're using EOS as a codename for preproduction.

Which is it ?

[dogged]

Since it won't be marketed under EOS, there is no trademark issue. As you already knew. Troll.

[Chris Ashworth]

Nokia are not using EOS, that was just an internal project codename. Go take a look on Nokia.com. It's a Lumia 1020.

[JDX]

also combines the mechanical stabilisation technology found in the Lumia 920

Hang on, so this is actually packing tech NOT on the 808 and is therefore even better?

[James Hughes 1]

Re: also combines the mechanical stabilisation technology found in the Lumia 920

Indeed. The stabilisation on the 808 is entirely software based, with help from HW motion estimation blocks. This uses a mechanical/optical stabilisation system which is apparently pretty damn good.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: also combines the mechanical stabilisation technology found in the Lumia 920

Why would they merely use the same technology and not improve on it? it's 1-2 year old technology now. You have to keep improving it. Plus the UI seems better than that of the 808.

[Jonathan 29]

Re: also combines the mechanical stabilisation technology found in the Lumia 920

I think wait and see. It does have a smaller sensor and you are losing the flexibility of an SD/swapable battery. Very early reports would seem to suggest that pictures are more grainy than the 808, but I will wait for the reviews.

[eSeM]

41 Megapixels ....

.... with a tiny lens is just stupid.

A 6 Megapixel camera with a bigger lens will take better pictures.

[theModge]

Re: 41 Megapixels ....

Granted, but the key difference is it's possible to fit a 41 Megapixel sensor in a camera, a Lens needs to be the size it is. I'm sure if they could have fitted a decent lens with optical zoom they would have done, but the idea is that sits in your pocket, not a camera bag.

[theOtherJT]

Alright, so it's basically what we all expected, yes? A 925 with a better camera. A _much_ better camera.

So, basically, did you like the 925 but want a better camera? Then here you go. I basically _did_ like the 925 so I like this. Have they missed a trick by integrating the battery and the storage? Well, yes, probably they have, but in that case so have Apple, because you can't change either of those things on an iPhone either, and it doesn't seem to have hurt their sales any. The nexus 4 doesn't have an SD card reader in it either, and we all like that.

I don't really consider either of those things to be a deal breaker tho. I'd like them, to be sure, but they're probably not going to stop me buying one. What _might_ stop me buying one is the price - and whatever the "next device" they half announced there for later in the year turns out to be.

[Allan 1]

Friend of mine has a Lumia something or other, he was always raging on about how it had a "proper camera with carl zeiss lens!", so I showed him just how grainy his pictures actually were at full size on a proper PC monitor.

Given the size of the lens and the size of the sensor, I can't imagine this would be any less grainy. Especially when compared to a similar shot taken with a proper camera.

[Ben Hanson 1]

There are several use cases here.

- Serious photographers.

- Users who would like a better camera phone, but don't expect DSLR quality.

- Casual users who take snapshots with their phones.

- People who want to be able to swap batteries and memory cards for whatever reason.

After debating with myself how much of a killer feature a better camera in a phone was, I decided to buy a Nokia 808. All I can say is don't knock it until you've tried it. It's never going to replace a DSLR, but then that really isn't the point. At a minimum, it blows must (all?) of the other camera phones away. That is the reality. At best, yes, maybe it does start to encroach on proper camera territory, but lacking an optical zoom is always going to be a limitation there regardless.

Personally I like the fact that the 808 has the ability to swap in different memory cards (although the mechanism is fragile enough you wouldn't want to do it regularly) and a replaceable battery is also a clear win. I'm not remotely interested in running Windows on my phone. It is a real shame they have binned Meego.

[Mark .]

Which Lumia? No Lumia until now has anywhere near the camera of the 808 (including the Lumia 920/925's version of Pureview). I've even seen owners of the older Nokia N8 saying that they've yet to upgrade, because nothing on any platform yet matches its quality (apart from the 808).

[Tapeador]

Aber doch, mein freund... http://www.flickr.com/photos/sheridan01/8668783444/sizes/k/in/photostream/

[Squander Two]

There's a thorough review of the 808 on this site, with sample pictures, and there are loads of 808 photos on the Web. Why imagine what the picture quality might be like when it's so trivially easy to check?

[Richard Plinston]

> there are loads of 808 photos on the Web. Why imagine what the picture quality might be like when it's so trivially easy to check?

The 1020 has a different sensor (smaller) a different lens (smaller) different processing hardware and different software.

Do try and follow what is going on.

[Simon B]

Nice phone from Nokia, again, but again it's the microsoft O/S. The O/S puts me off every time, I want android on that phone, something that's not gonna happen. Locking into the O/S was a bad move, locked to 1 when they could potentially have appealed to both? Just my thoughts.

[Squander Two]

Here's a prediction.

Someone will make a version of the camera grip that allows you to attach proper camera lenses. Which might just be amazing.

[Squander Two]

Re: Here's a prediction.

Thinking about this some more, the release of the SDK means someone could make a camera grip with manual controls for the settings.