back to article The Three Amigos offer sanctuary to cornered NSA leaker Snowden

NSA contractor-turned-surveillance-whistleblower Edward Snowden has been offered asylum in three Latin American countries. Support for Snowden among a coalition of left-leaning governments in Latin America has hardened after a high-profile incident last week when an aircraft carrying Bolivian President Evo Morales was obliged …

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  1. Titus Technophobe

    Three Amigos

    Nicaragua, Venezuela and Bolivia ...... isn't it a bit strange how these three countries who don't have a great record on human rights want to help out.

    If I was Snowden I would grown a pair and go back to the states. Let courts with some semblance of independence sort out if his actions were in the public interest.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Three Amigos

      The "don't have a great record on human rights" applies to *all* parties in the argument. And no I, for one, wouldn't be going anywhere near the gun-toting, torture-condoning, bulk-spying, extraordinarily rendering, paranoid "states"

      1. Steve Knox
        Black Helicopters

        Re: Three Amigos

        "don't have a great record on human rights"

        Quick! Name a nation-state that does have a great record on human rights!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Three Amigos

          "Quick! Name a nation-state that does have a great record on human rights!"

          Bhutan.

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. Denarius Silver badge
            Meh

            Re: Three Amigos

            Bhutan ? we have some refugees here, in South Oz

        2. Titus Technophobe

          Re: Three Amigos

          Quick! Name a nation-state that does have a great record on human rights!

          Norway and Sweden seem to be ranked highest.

          1. therealmav

            Re: Three Amigos

            Norway and Sweden seem to be ranked highest.

            yet astonishingly, at least one of them is still considered a worse destination for a certain alleged lady botherer currently camped out on ecuador's sofa. Go figure.

      2. tempemeaty

        Re: Three Amigos

        Sad mess isn't it. People in the US are in shock at how much they've been lied to by the Gov. Now a few who have clued in that they all have had the Gov steal their inalienable rights are starting to fight back for them. Trouble is US Gov has now reached optimum corruption in a marriage with the the worlds most powerful in Oil and Banking so it's not going to get fixed without a mess along the way. In the mean time the US Gov is out of the populations control.

    2. Miek
      Big Brother

      Re: Three Amigos

      "isn't it a bit strange how these three countries who don't have a great record on human rights want to help out." -- Not really, these are the very same Countries the USA has been abusing for years, I would call it a kick in the nuts for the USA.

      An example, not related to the Countries named above, but, demonstrates the level of respect America has for it's Southern Neighbours:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment#Non-consensual_experiments_in_Guatemala

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Three Amigos

        Ok, two points: It wasn't just done to Guatemalans, it was done to Black African US Citizens as well, in Guatemala it was done with the knowledge and cooperation of at least some government. Also, it was 40 years ago, this doesn't change the fact that it's a shameful episode in US history, but you seem to suggest that this sort of thing is still going on.

        1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Meh

          Re: Three Amigos

          "Ok, two points: It wasn't just done to Guatemalans, it was done to Black African US Citizens as well, in Guatemala it was done with the knowledge and cooperation of at least some government. Also, it was 40 years ago, this doesn't change the fact that it's a shameful episode in US history"

          True.

          "but you seem to suggest that this sort of thing is still going on."

          And that's why you, Mr AC haven't been upvoted. People who know enough history are very wary of assuming it isn't.

          US history suggests that there's always some medical situation where "We have to know the consequences" trumps little things like informed consent.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Three Amigos

            I'm not up enough on US history to know, can you cite some examples?

          2. Miles Dyson

            Re: Three Amigos

            "And that's why you, Mr AC haven't been upvoted. People who know enough history are very wary of assuming it isn't.

            US history suggests that there's always some medical situation where "We have to know the consequences" trumps little things like informed consent."

            I think you need to re-phrase your comment to: "People who cherry-pick history to support their stupid prejudices are very wary of...". By your logic, I suppose we should also assume that Spain is still plundering gold from Latin American and Germany is still using Jews as human guinea pigs, but only now have somehow figured out a way to keep these remarkably secret? I'm waiting for some more cherry-picking which will clearly demonstrate why skeletons in US history are still relevant while those of other countries are not. Of course, you could also just stick to criticizing things the US is doing wrong in the contemporary real world rather than creating a stupid fantasy world.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Three Amigos

          Also, it was 40 years ago, this doesn't change the fact that it's a shameful episode in US history, but you seem to suggest that this sort of thing is still going on.

          Not so very long ago everyone believed the NSA wasn't slurping everyones data.

          Not so very long ago everyone thought the laws in western countries could protect the citizens of those countries from unwarranted, and immoral intrusion from their intelligence agencies.

          Not so very long ago The American Congress believed the NSA wasn't listening in to, and reading the private conversations of Americans.

          Given how little the American Intelligance Agencies are willing for you to know.

          Given the history of combatative actions carried out by those Agencies.

          What makes you think they're not still doing things like that?

        3. Euripides Pants
          Thumb Down

          Re: Tuskegee syphilis experiment

          And this same government expects us to trust their "health care reform"?

    3. Irongut Silver badge

      Re: Three Amigos

      "courts with some semblance of independence"

      Do you really believe that? If you do I've got this bridge for sale, only one cafeul owner...

      1. Titus Technophobe
        Stop

        Re: Three Amigos

        Are you seriously trying to suggest that the Judicial independence of Nicaragua, Venezuela and Bolivia, is better than the United States?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: seriously trying to suggest that ...

          I stated that they are *all* guilty of breaches of human rights, and your blind "USA is the best" rhetoric is just that ... there is no better, worst clarification. Obviously I know which of those countries I'd rather be in

    4. Hollerith 1

      Re: Three Amigos

      The USA's treatment of Manning has been despicable. Bolivia et al. might not have great human rights records, but they don't have the breathtaking hypocrisy of the USA presenting itself as the great beacon of justice and integrity and then merrily stomping on due process, human rights, and international commitments not to torture. Any whistleblower would have to be nuts to volunteer to put himself into the hands of the Americans.

      1. mmeier

        Re: Three Amigos

        What has been depictable? Manning is a traitor that knowingly endangered his fellow soldiers. He was caught, he is in a military prison and he gets a trial. If he had done the same in one of the "oh so great" socialist dictatorship that some praise here he would most likely have been "shot trying to escape" or simply vanished

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Manning is a traitor blah blah blah

          Obviously informing the world that some attack helicopter goes in to kill civilians endangers nobody, other than the perpetrators of said crime. Give him a medal for that.

          1. Titus Technophobe
            Stop

            Re: Manning is a traitor blah blah blah @AC

            Obviously informing the world that some attack helicopter goes in to kill civilians endangers nobody, other than the perpetrators of said crime. Give him a medal for that.

            The video that when it hasn't been redacted shows a bunch of folks attempting to fire an RPG at the Helicopter you mean?

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Manning is a traitor blah blah blah

            You do realise that the "collateral murder" video is edited, not only is it edited, but it's editorialised, with comments telling you what the editor of the video believes to be going on.

            Wikileaks claim not to do journalism, but the editing of this video and editorialising of it is just that. Wikileaks serves no purpose if it doesn't display the whole leak and nothing but the leak, with redactions only to protect the innocent.

            Go and find the un-edited version, you'll be shocked as to what Wikileaks removed.

        2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Three Amigos

          >What has been depictable?

          That they admitted torture and offered to knock 117 days off his sentence because of it?

          >Manning is a traitor

          Traitor / Patriot - so like freedom fighter / terrorist

          > knowingly endangered his fellow soldiers

          By leaking diplomatic cables that suggested the revealed Putin was the real power behind the Russian president, Isreal doesn't really like the Palestinians and is suspicious about Iran's peaceful nuclear energy, and that some people in Pakistan's security service might be unhappy about the US continaully bombing them?

          1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
            Unhappy

            Re: Three Amigos

            "By leaking diplomatic cables that suggested the revealed Putin was the real power behind the Russian president, Isreal doesn't really like the Palestinians and is suspicious about Iran's peaceful nuclear energy, and that some people in Pakistan's security service might be unhappy about the US continaully bombing them?"

            His real crime is far worse than that. It includes a)Showing military staff have access to diplomatic service messages b)That access can be had down to the rank of PFC and c) Walking out of a USMC base with a Lady Gaga CD and not being roundly stomped.

            In short his crime (like Gary McKinnon) is the most heinous own a govt employee can commit.

            Making their government look STUPID

            BTW anyone see the irony in this? USG gov hates people know it spies on them and hates what it says being leaked as well?

            After all Uncle Sam, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Right?

      2. Tom 38 Silver badge

        Re: Three Amigos

        Forget Manning, how about the illegal treatment of prisoners of war. The US found time after 9/11 to pass laws allowing them to do whatever the fuck they want to anyone in the name of counter terrorism, but they can't find time in the 12 years to charge them, or even clarify if they are enemy combatants (and therefore now PoWs) or not.

        The land that gave us the bill of rights is denying to it's prisoners the human rights that even the Nazis allowed their PoWs. The degree of civilisation in a society is revealed by entering its prisons.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Three Amigos

      isn't it a bit strange how ALL these countries who DO have a great record on human rights don't want to help out.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Three Amigos

        Countries with great human rights records just have better access to the statisticians cooking those books.

    6. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Happy

      Re: Three Amigos

      "If I was Snowden I would grown a pair and go back to the states. Let courts with some semblance of independence sort out if his actions were in the public interest."

      Still hoping for a contract when they try and revive the UK Identity Cards scheme, eh Titus?

  2. Michael Habel Silver badge

    Or hes currently on an east bound Freighter sailing over the Pacific. Ya can't be forced to land for inspection if your not in their Airspace. And, what are the US gonna do? Stop every Boat in the Pacific to look for this Guy?

    1. JoshOvki
      Thumb Down

      Would you really put it past them to do that?

  3. tony2heads
    Thumb Up

    Muchas gracias

    They may have a poor human rights record, but is the USA really that much better??

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Muchas gracias

      All you Americans out there.

      See this comment... see the number upvotes it has.

      You can blame Snowden for that all you want, but you'll be denying reality.

      His actions were only a reaction to your intelligence agencies activities.

      Such activities are why even the citizens of your allies are starting to react against you.

      And no it wouldn't have all been alright if he'd just kept it a secret...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Muchas gracias

        Yeah, upvotes on an Internet forum regularly a good barometer of truth and the national mood.

        1. Steven Roper

          @ AC 22:21

          Funny, I have the suspicion that if he'd been downvoted instead you'd be saying the exact opposite.

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Rukario
      Facepalm

      Re: Muchas gracias

      Of course the Latin American countries have poor human rights records! Who installed the puppet governments that gave them those poor human rights records?

  4. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. Anonymous Coward
      WTF?

      Re: The only good hacker...

      Spoken like a fearless and patriotic ........... AC

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The only good hacker...

      How is Assange a traitor? Last I heard he's an Australian citizen, not a US one.

      1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Happy

        Re: The only good hacker...

        "How is Assange a traitor? Last I heard he's an Australian citizen, not a US one."

        A fact even known to viewers of Saturday Night Live (and John Haders writing team).

        AC is probably a)American b)Fox "News" viewer.

    3. jubtastic1
      Stop

      Re: The only good hacker...

      He's not a hacker or traitor, he's a Patriot: a person who vigorously supports their country and s prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.

      The US Constitution is what defines the USA, not borders on a map or the various wars on nouns, you simply cannot be an American patriot and ignore the constitution being shredded by the very people sworn to uphold it.

    4. tempemeaty

      Re: The only good hacker...

      All the corrupt leaders in the US Gov are probably thinking dead men don't talk. Killing Snowden only helps cover up the massive US Gov corruption.

      I would rather he not be killed and have all the corruption revealed so it can be cleaned up. The people in the US need to know so they can at least attempt to regain some control over the Gov and clean it up if that's still possible. Also all the US allies and other countries that have been bitten by this US Gov also need to know what's going on. They deserve that, it's the only respectful thing to do.

    5. Denarius Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: The only good hacker...

      here, let me help you to post better. Wrong icon, troll is the one you need. AC lacks credibility. Makes you read like an inexperienced teenager.

      BTW, I take it you include the hackers used by the USSA, or was it the USA to intrude frequently and often on their own citizens. It is a given everyone else is open season as USSA law makes it clear nonyanks have no rights.The saddest part of how far the US has fallen from its founders ideals is the fact Snowden took flight thru China and Russia. The world has changed.

      1. Titus Technophobe

        Re: The only good hacker...

        How is Assange a traitor? Last I heard he's an Australian citizen, not a US one.

        And one on the run for allegations of rape, last I heard ......

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Martin Short cousin

    Martin Short's (of 3 Amigo's fame) first cousin is Clare Short.

    Facto!!

    1. Tom 38 Silver badge
      WTF?

      Re: Martin Short cousin

      Martin Short's (of 3 Amigo's fame) first cousin is Clare Short.

      Jesus Fucking Christ, this is actually true!

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dump all the documents

    He should dump all the documents, not just a few redacted version, everything. What does he have to lose at this point? Wikileaks, PasteBin, etc, plenty of places to put them. They're going to call him a traitor and lock him up forever at the first chance.

    Other leakers are still coming forward, the NYT has an article from an unidentified ex NSA man explaining how the NSA have created a secret parallel system of law, created by the FISA court expanding its remit to compare with the Supreme Court.

    http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/4/how_the_pentagon_papers_came_to

    This is a video about the release of the Pentagon papers (this same thing in 1970s), how they came to be leaked by a contractor, how a brave politician found a way to read the complete papers into public record, making them legally public, how even then Nixon tried to bully newspapers to prevent them printing them.

    It was the *complete* Pentagon papers. It didn't do the US harm, it woke them up before it was too late.

    Nixon was a crook and the Pentagon papers revealed how fake the Vietnam war was. The people involved in the leak, then vilified as traitors, today are universally viewed as heroes.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    From Russia with Love

    As if his asylum worries weren't enough, Snowden received an unsolicited marriage proposal from former spy Anna Chapman last week.

    Hell yes!

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    An American walks into a bar ...

    ... dos cervezas, por favour.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What really gets up the US administration's nose...

    ...is the knowledge that, 50 years from now, the statues they'll put up will not be of "Obama, the first black president and bringer of a bit of sanity to public healthcare". They will be of "Snowden, hero and patriot of the American people"

  10. graeme leggett

    Cynical moi?

    "Snowden received an unsolicited attempt from former spy Anna Chapman to get her face back in the limelight on the back of media focus on his activities ."

    There fixed that for you.

    1. h3

      Re: Cynical moi?

      How do you know the Kremlin just doesn't want the full unencrypted files ? (And a reason that allows him to stay with much less diplomatic fallout.)

  11. frank ly

    Shot ... foot

    Nobody wanted to give him asylum (as far as I read it). The the US leans on its allies/dependants to get heavy for them and suddenly three countries will lay out the red carpet for him. Snowden must have sympathetic admirers high up in the US establishment.

  12. The Grump

    Why should Snowden release everything...

    when that's the only trump card he has left ? Snowden is of interest to enemies of the US - only - as long as he has dirt on the US government. Without it, he is simply a liability to whatever third rate Commie hell that takes him in. "Here's a mule and a plow. Now go and produce vegetables, comrade. Failure will be punished severely."

    I would LOVE to see the look on his face when his adopted country kicks him to the curb. Truly a man without a country.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Truly a man without a country ...

      "Third rate Commit hell"

      Is that the limit of your intellect? Everyone who "offers asylum" is "third rate commie hell"?

      Seems you're a man without a clue

      1. Tom 38 Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Truly a man without a country ...

        "Third rate Commit hell"

        Is that the limit of your intellect? Everyone who "offers asylum" is "third rate commie hell"?

        Commit hell is actually what you get when your repo is out of date when you commit, and then when you do pull updates, you find you have retard colleague Bob's ridiculous changes to merge your own changes back into.

        Commie Commit Hell is when you have to resolve the conflicts in a group meeting with Bob, your boss, your bosses boss, and three people who don't know the language, the project, or even your name, but have very strong views on "correct" code.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why should Snowden release everything...

      Venezuela would be my first choice as it has easily the nicest beaches and some of the best terrain in the Americas. But Bolivia would likely be safer for him. Although a great place to visit with a decent sized North American ex-pat community in La Paz to socialize with, I would later regret not having chosen somewhere a bit more Europe-facing.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Bolivian president jet story is full of holes...

    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/07/tale-re-routed-bolivian-presidents-plane-falling-apart/66838/

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    He should file a federal whistleblower complaint.

    "Whistleblowers may file complaints that they believe reasonably evidences a violation of a law, rule or regulation; gross mismanagement; gross waste of funds; an abuse of authority; or a substantial and specific danger to public health or safety"

    Yep, that sounds like the PRISM program. Of course, you have the federal governemnt doing an internal investigation. Internal investigations are rarely fair when the fox already has access to the hen house. It might be a way to get the PRISM program in front of the Supreme Court though.

  15. Knochen Brittle
    Happy

    "the tricky business of reaching L.Am. without traveling through US or its allies airspace"

    ... et voilà! ... the Russian destroyer Admiral Panteleyev will shortly make a port call in Caracas, putting paid to this nonsensical non-problem and busting a hot-air-balloon-sized hole through the Yanki criminals' bluster.

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